Re: [classlib] Der Plan
I would rather see a harmony-wiki mailing list for those interested in that area. There is already too much coming in the harmony-commits list. Dan Lydick > [Original Message] > From: Geir Magnusson Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Date: 4/10/06 7:24:25 PM > Subject: Re: [classlib] Der Plan > > > > Nathan Beyer wrote: > > I've found the Wiki to be much more useful since I subscribed to the change > > notifications. I get an email for all updates to the Wiki in a nice > > pseudo-diff format. Perhaps the 'commits' mailing list could be added to > > this notification mechanism. > > I don't understand what you are asking for... > > geir > ... snip ... - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [classlib] Der Plan
Nathan Beyer wrote: I've found the Wiki to be much more useful since I subscribed to the change notifications. I get an email for all updates to the Wiki in a nice pseudo-diff format. Perhaps the 'commits' mailing list could be added to this notification mechanism. I don't understand what you are asking for... geir -Original Message- From: Geir Magnusson Jr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 9:37 AM To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: [classlib] Der Plan One more thing - keeping a record on a wiki is good, but I'd like to see people talking about what they are doing on the mail list, and then noting it on the Wiki Tim Ellison wrote: Looking at our wiki pages[1], people have written a description of the _current_ state of play for a number of class library modules. However, with our new committers eager to get going, a growing number of contributors, and people lurking and wondering where they can help, may I suggest that we try and form a plan for what we want to do over the next, say, six weeks; over and above the usual bug fixing tasks. Like all good plans we'll probably get it wrong in a number of ways ;-) but the idea is that we all agree upon a few themes and goals to ensure we are all working together on subgoals of the project. At regular intervals we should come together with a coherent working system, rather than always having something broken! I expect that some of the themes/goals will be relevant across the whole classlib, and others will be module-specific. I've created a wiki page [2] with a suggestion of how it may look -- but the content comes from everyone so it's not complete. Thoughts? Tim [1] http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/ClassLibrary [2] http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/ClassLibraryPlan - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [classlib] Der Plan
Avtamonov, Agree with you that we need to mail notification/discussions before publishing, In fact, yesterday I've trigged discussion on java.util upgrade in another thread. But I keep my opinion about the Wiki using. However, I'm fine to comply with majority opinions to move things forward, so I don't mind to roll back the Wiki before get agreement in mailing list. Hopefully we can get some agreement on the regular snapshot/milestone, I consider it is really helpful to Harmony. Anton Avtamonov wrote: On 4/4/06, Paulex Yang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Tim, I've rolled back the page, and I'm sorry if it made someone uncomfortable. I thought Wiki should not be something final, or official, and it just used as record for sth. in progress, say, discussion, code status, or volunteer, so that everyone can see and involve if interest, and IMHO Wiki is easier to summary and read (otherwise the new comers may need to search in mailing list archive, or just ask questions have been discussed before), especially considering Wiki modification can be subscribed. Hi Paulex, I agree with you: we definitely need some sort of summaries on Wiki. Harmony mailing has lots of threads which one can hardly track not being full time there. However information published on Wiki should be "agreed" with others who affected. Otherwise it can even mislead someone, right? Therefore we need mailing notifications/discussions before publishing I think. Wishes, -- Anton Avtamonov, Intel Middleware Products Division - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Paulex Yang China Software Development Lab IBM - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [classlib] Der Plan
Anton Avtamonov wrote: > On 4/4/06, Paulex Yang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Tim, >> >> I've rolled back the page, and I'm sorry if it made someone >> uncomfortable. I thought Wiki should not be something final, or >> official, and it just used as record for sth. in progress, say, >> discussion, code status, or volunteer, so that everyone can see and >> involve if interest, and IMHO Wiki is easier to summary and read >> (otherwise the new comers may need to search in mailing list archive, or >> just ask questions have been discussed before), especially considering >> Wiki modification can be subscribed. > > Hi Paulex, > I agree with you: we definitely need some sort of summaries on Wiki. > Harmony mailing has lots of threads which one can hardly track not > being full time there. However information published on Wiki should be > "agreed" with others who affected. Otherwise it can even mislead > someone, right? Therefore we need mailing notifications/discussions > before publishing I think. Yes, that is my mental model for how this works too -- and when the plan is stable we can move it onto the website to ensure it is fixed. Regards. Tim -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK. - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [classlib] Der Plan
On 4/4/06, Paulex Yang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Tim, > > I've rolled back the page, and I'm sorry if it made someone > uncomfortable. I thought Wiki should not be something final, or > official, and it just used as record for sth. in progress, say, > discussion, code status, or volunteer, so that everyone can see and > involve if interest, and IMHO Wiki is easier to summary and read > (otherwise the new comers may need to search in mailing list archive, or > just ask questions have been discussed before), especially considering > Wiki modification can be subscribed. Hi Paulex, I agree with you: we definitely need some sort of summaries on Wiki. Harmony mailing has lots of threads which one can hardly track not being full time there. However information published on Wiki should be "agreed" with others who affected. Otherwise it can even mislead someone, right? Therefore we need mailing notifications/discussions before publishing I think. Wishes, -- Anton Avtamonov, Intel Middleware Products Division - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [classlib] Der Plan
Tim, I've rolled back the page, and I'm sorry if it made someone uncomfortable. I thought Wiki should not be something final, or official, and it just used as record for sth. in progress, say, discussion, code status, or volunteer, so that everyone can see and involve if interest, and IMHO Wiki is easier to summary and read (otherwise the new comers may need to search in mailing list archive, or just ask questions have been discussed before), especially considering Wiki modification can be subscribed. And I highlight java.io package, just because most API difference related JIRA/patches(JIRA230-232) for this package have been raised/attached for committers to review(except one pending on java.util), similar case to java.net, so I just consider it as a summary for component status page. So I guess I missed sth. here, pls. correct me. Thank you. Tim Ellison wrote: Tim Ellison wrote: Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: What's so special about April 21st? I've no idea, why did you mention it? Ah, sorry -- just went back to the wiki and saw the update that Paulex made. That's not what I expected... Paulex: Can you discuss the plan on the dev list first rather than edit it directly on the wiki? Once you get some agreement you can add it to the plan. Plus I don't think we need to set goals within the goals :-) Perhaps this should evolve directly on the website rather than the wiki? Regards, Tim -- Paulex Yang China Software Development Lab IBM - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [classlib] Der Plan
Tim Ellison wrote: > Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: >> What's so special about April 21st? > > I've no idea, why did you mention it? Ah, sorry -- just went back to the wiki and saw the update that Paulex made. That's not what I expected... Paulex: Can you discuss the plan on the dev list first rather than edit it directly on the wiki? Once you get some agreement you can add it to the plan. Plus I don't think we need to set goals within the goals :-) Perhaps this should evolve directly on the website rather than the wiki? Regards, Tim -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK. - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [classlib] Der Plan
Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: > Tim Ellison wrote: >> Looking at our wiki pages[1], people have written a description of the >> _current_ state of play for a number of class library modules. >> >> However, with our new committers eager to get going, a growing number of >> contributors, and people lurking and wondering where they can help, may >> I suggest that we try and form a plan for what we want to do over the >> next, say, six weeks; over and above the usual bug fixing tasks. >> >> Like all good plans we'll probably get it wrong in a number of ways ;-) >> but the idea is that we all agree upon a few themes and goals to ensure >> we are all working together on subgoals of the project. At regular >> intervals we should come together with a coherent working system, rather >> than always having something broken! > > Like every day. The build system and regression tests ensure our code works everyday (every hour actually!). Rather than inch forward across the whole of JSE simultaneously it is helpful to identify subgoals along the way. >> I expect that some of the themes/goals will be relevant across the whole >> classlib, and others will be module-specific. I've created a wiki page >> [2] with a suggestion of how it may look -- but the content comes from >> everyone so it's not complete. >> >> Thoughts? > > What's so special about April 21st? I've no idea, why did you mention it? Six weeks from now is May 16th. I chose the interval rather than the date, since we need long enough to contain some meaty tasks, but not too long to loose sight of what we are doing. It also happens to be the start of JavaOne -- but that's a coincidence. Regards, Tim >> [1] http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/ClassLibrary >> [2] http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/ClassLibraryPlan -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK. - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [classlib] Der Plan
Geir Magnusson Jr wrote: > One more thing - keeping a record on a wiki is good, but I'd like to see > people talking about what they are doing on the mail list, and then > noting it on the Wiki Agreed -- let's use it as a location to record the current view of consensus building (conducted here); and then when it is stable copy it onto the website. Regards, Tim > Tim Ellison wrote: >> Looking at our wiki pages[1], people have written a description of the >> _current_ state of play for a number of class library modules. >> >> However, with our new committers eager to get going, a growing number of >> contributors, and people lurking and wondering where they can help, may >> I suggest that we try and form a plan for what we want to do over the >> next, say, six weeks; over and above the usual bug fixing tasks. >> >> Like all good plans we'll probably get it wrong in a number of ways ;-) >> but the idea is that we all agree upon a few themes and goals to ensure >> we are all working together on subgoals of the project. At regular >> intervals we should come together with a coherent working system, rather >> than always having something broken! >> >> I expect that some of the themes/goals will be relevant across the whole >> classlib, and others will be module-specific. I've created a wiki page >> [2] with a suggestion of how it may look -- but the content comes from >> everyone so it's not complete. >> >> Thoughts? >> Tim >> >> [1] http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/ClassLibrary >> [2] http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/ClassLibraryPlan >> > > - > Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK. - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [classlib] Der Plan
I've found the Wiki to be much more useful since I subscribed to the change notifications. I get an email for all updates to the Wiki in a nice pseudo-diff format. Perhaps the 'commits' mailing list could be added to this notification mechanism. -Original Message- From: Geir Magnusson Jr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 9:37 AM To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: [classlib] Der Plan One more thing - keeping a record on a wiki is good, but I'd like to see people talking about what they are doing on the mail list, and then noting it on the Wiki Tim Ellison wrote: > Looking at our wiki pages[1], people have written a description of the > _current_ state of play for a number of class library modules. > > However, with our new committers eager to get going, a growing number of > contributors, and people lurking and wondering where they can help, may > I suggest that we try and form a plan for what we want to do over the > next, say, six weeks; over and above the usual bug fixing tasks. > > Like all good plans we'll probably get it wrong in a number of ways ;-) > but the idea is that we all agree upon a few themes and goals to ensure > we are all working together on subgoals of the project. At regular > intervals we should come together with a coherent working system, rather > than always having something broken! > > I expect that some of the themes/goals will be relevant across the whole > classlib, and others will be module-specific. I've created a wiki page > [2] with a suggestion of how it may look -- but the content comes from > everyone so it's not complete. > > Thoughts? > Tim > > [1] http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/ClassLibrary > [2] http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/ClassLibraryPlan > - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [classlib] Der Plan
One more thing - keeping a record on a wiki is good, but I'd like to see people talking about what they are doing on the mail list, and then noting it on the Wiki Tim Ellison wrote: Looking at our wiki pages[1], people have written a description of the _current_ state of play for a number of class library modules. However, with our new committers eager to get going, a growing number of contributors, and people lurking and wondering where they can help, may I suggest that we try and form a plan for what we want to do over the next, say, six weeks; over and above the usual bug fixing tasks. Like all good plans we'll probably get it wrong in a number of ways ;-) but the idea is that we all agree upon a few themes and goals to ensure we are all working together on subgoals of the project. At regular intervals we should come together with a coherent working system, rather than always having something broken! I expect that some of the themes/goals will be relevant across the whole classlib, and others will be module-specific. I've created a wiki page [2] with a suggestion of how it may look -- but the content comes from everyone so it's not complete. Thoughts? Tim [1] http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/ClassLibrary [2] http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/ClassLibraryPlan - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [classlib] Der Plan
Tim Ellison wrote: Looking at our wiki pages[1], people have written a description of the _current_ state of play for a number of class library modules. However, with our new committers eager to get going, a growing number of contributors, and people lurking and wondering where they can help, may I suggest that we try and form a plan for what we want to do over the next, say, six weeks; over and above the usual bug fixing tasks. Like all good plans we'll probably get it wrong in a number of ways ;-) but the idea is that we all agree upon a few themes and goals to ensure we are all working together on subgoals of the project. At regular intervals we should come together with a coherent working system, rather than always having something broken! Like every day. I expect that some of the themes/goals will be relevant across the whole classlib, and others will be module-specific. I've created a wiki page [2] with a suggestion of how it may look -- but the content comes from everyone so it's not complete. Thoughts? What's so special about April 21st? geir Tim [1] http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/ClassLibrary [2] http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/ClassLibraryPlan - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [classlib] Der Plan
Nathan Beyer wrote: I think a more formal project plan (release plan?) would be great. It would be nice to have a regular snapshot/milestone build to be pushing towards. The Xerces-J project does something similar with their releases [1]. Although not quite the same, the intent is similar and the communication to the community is very helpful. Totally agree. A heartbeat milestone plan will be very helpful, and maybe I am too aggressive, but IMHO, it is also good time start to discuss a little long-term roadmap(as what the Harmony website says;-) ), especially considering we have got two VMs and a dozen of classlib components in SVN. What I mean about roadmap may be like: when can Harmony binaries can support Tomcat, or Geronimo, etc, when to meet 30%, 50%, 80%, 100% JSE 5 API coverage, when to open Java 6 development branch (if we shall), etc. The items that are out on the Wiki now look good to me. I think enabling Java 5 syntax, establishing a test architecture and a general focus on getting a repeatable build system are good initial steps. Agree. A stable infrastructure like build system/code layout/test framework/etc is very important to development. Hopefully we can get the consensus asap. The next obvious major focus for the class library is attaining Java 5 compliance, especially since Java 6 is quickly coming down the pipe. Perhaps the later iterations can have a module-specific focus for closing the gaps. Should we have some priority on the classlib components? After all, the whole classlib is too big to be created in a couple of weeks(even a couple of months or years). That's also why I think a little long term roadmap is helpful, which can be the balance to weigh the components. [1] http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/xerces/java/trunk/Xerces2.8.0-R EL_PLAN.html -Nathan -Original Message- From: Tim Ellison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 4:01 PM To: harmony-dev Subject: [classlib] Der Plan Looking at our wiki pages[1], people have written a description of the _current_ state of play for a number of class library modules. However, with our new committers eager to get going, a growing number of contributors, and people lurking and wondering where they can help, may I suggest that we try and form a plan for what we want to do over the next, say, six weeks; over and above the usual bug fixing tasks. Like all good plans we'll probably get it wrong in a number of ways ;-) but the idea is that we all agree upon a few themes and goals to ensure we are all working together on subgoals of the project. At regular intervals we should come together with a coherent working system, rather than always having something broken! I expect that some of the themes/goals will be relevant across the whole classlib, and others will be module-specific. I've created a wiki page [2] with a suggestion of how it may look -- but the content comes from everyone so it's not complete. Thoughts? Tim [1] http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/ClassLibrary [2] http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/ClassLibraryPlan -- Paulex Yang China Software Development Lab IBM - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [classlib] Der Plan
I think a more formal project plan (release plan?) would be great. It would be nice to have a regular snapshot/milestone build to be pushing towards. The Xerces-J project does something similar with their releases [1]. Although not quite the same, the intent is similar and the communication to the community is very helpful. The items that are out on the Wiki now look good to me. I think enabling Java 5 syntax, establishing a test architecture and a general focus on getting a repeatable build system are good initial steps. The next obvious major focus for the class library is attaining Java 5 compliance, especially since Java 6 is quickly coming down the pipe. Perhaps the later iterations can have a module-specific focus for closing the gaps. [1] http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/xerces/java/trunk/Xerces2.8.0-R EL_PLAN.html -Nathan -Original Message- From: Tim Ellison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 4:01 PM To: harmony-dev Subject: [classlib] Der Plan Looking at our wiki pages[1], people have written a description of the _current_ state of play for a number of class library modules. However, with our new committers eager to get going, a growing number of contributors, and people lurking and wondering where they can help, may I suggest that we try and form a plan for what we want to do over the next, say, six weeks; over and above the usual bug fixing tasks. Like all good plans we'll probably get it wrong in a number of ways ;-) but the idea is that we all agree upon a few themes and goals to ensure we are all working together on subgoals of the project. At regular intervals we should come together with a coherent working system, rather than always having something broken! I expect that some of the themes/goals will be relevant across the whole classlib, and others will be module-specific. I've created a wiki page [2] with a suggestion of how it may look -- but the content comes from everyone so it's not complete. Thoughts? Tim [1] http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/ClassLibrary [2] http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/ClassLibraryPlan -- Tim Ellison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IBM Java technology centre, UK. - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
