RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
LOL! I know what she means, I still have nightmares after 15 years! But Im glad I am certified because I was properly and thoroughly trained by TSgt. Nocito. Kimberly C. Tuttle HT (ASCP) Pathology Biorepository and Research Core University of Maryland Room NBW58, UMMC 22 S. Greene St Baltimore, MD 21201 (410) 328-5524 (410) 328-5508 fax JoeNocito jnoc...@satx.rr.com 2/18/2009 5:32 pm I don't know what you mean.. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Bonner, Janet Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 2:49 PM To: JoeNocito; Rittman, Barry R; Histonet Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Well, there's the Pot calling the Kettle black Janet From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu on behalf of JoeNocito Sent: Tue 2/17/2009 7:38 PM To: 'Rittman, Barry R'; 'Histonet' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Don't hold back Barry, tell us what you really think JTT -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rittman, Barry R Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 4:16 PM To: 'Histonet' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I think that the entire system needs a good enema. Ever since I started work in a lab in 1957, salaries have been poor and not kept up with cost of living or reflected the skill of many of the histotechs. I feel that one of the major problems is that we have several categories of histotechs. Certified (I mean that in the nicest sense of the word!). Certified and also highly skilled. Skilled via on the job training. Robotic technicians. Until a system is put into place that requires all histotechs to be certified, or in training along a specific career pathway then things will never change. Along with this must be a system that requires employers to have well defined career paths for all their histotechs. This must include training outside of the routine work that they need to do in their specific laboratory. I must agree that getting rid of the practical part of the examination was how can I put this delicately ... imbecilic. The workplace needs to get back to being less of a bottom line factory in which careers of the employees is often not a consideration to a place where career paths are an integral part of the employment. The optimal environment is one where there is a two way street where both employer and employee benefit. While money is a consideration, it is not the only reason that individuals continue to work in a specific lab. Barry -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Judith L. Williams Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 1:36 PM To: Pamela Marcum Cc: 'Histonet'; 'Donna Hunter' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Hi all in histo world - well, time to get on the bandwagon! so, I agree with the other Old TEchs that came through the hard way like I did- it was much more of a challenge and the certification really meant something you worked HARD for! How do we pass that on the our newer techs. I think it is up to us to make sure they know how to do things- how to troubleshoot- how to make things by hand should they not get in the order of pre-made stuff! In a busy work world it is a challenge- but the only way they will learn now is if we train them. Are the schools doing this? yes, some are. The students that work with someone who has time to train them correctly OJT or otherwise are the lucky ones. Like the one working for you Pamela. Hopefully she will be able to pass on her knowledge to others. And for the certification - yes, the histology techs need to be certified- or they are called Histology Lab Assistants- even though they can cut or embed. and it is Tuesday. not even Friday Judy On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Pamela Marcum wrote: Ah, the memories of having to find the tissue then gross, process, stain and wait. You are absolutely correct it was a very exciting time to open that envelope and find out I passed the both tests. Doing everything manually from cutting, mounting and staining was nerve racking and worth every minute. I knew what each stain would do and how to make it the best I could by hand. I don't think the automated units give the same satisfaction and don't teach troubleshooting the way we learned it. I made my stains so if it did not work it was on me and no one else. We still do for new stains. I am training someone now. She will know how to make the stains and what will break the stains so even if we get an automated stainer it will be something she will still be able troubleshoot. We do buy some stains as soon as I know she understands why and how to make them. I won't even start on IHC as I began
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Cheapskates!! Claire From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu on behalf of Bryan Watson Sent: Thu 2/19/2009 12:31 PM To: 'Histonet'; Kimberly Tuttle Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I would just like to say that it may, perhaps, be an advantage to be uncertified in the Histology field. I have lost 2 potential job opportunities to people who were not certified within the last year. Fortunately I am employed, however both of these jobs would have been much better than where I am now. The first one hired a med tech and the second one hired an uncertified Histotech. It makes me sad. . . Kimberly Tuttle ktut...@umm.edu 2/19/2009 12:40 PM LOL! I know what she means, I still have nightmares after 15 years! But Im glad I am certified because I was properly and thoroughly trained by TSgt. Nocito. Kimberly C. Tuttle HT (ASCP) Pathology Biorepository and Research Core University of Maryland Room NBW58, UMMC 22 S. Greene St Baltimore, MD 21201 (410) 328-5524 (410) 328-5508 fax JoeNocito jnoc...@satx.rr.com 2/18/2009 5:32 pm I don't know what you mean.. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Bonner, Janet Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 2:49 PM To: JoeNocito; Rittman, Barry R; Histonet Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Well, there's the Pot calling the Kettle black Janet From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu on behalf of JoeNocito Sent: Tue 2/17/2009 7:38 PM To: 'Rittman, Barry R'; 'Histonet' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Don't hold back Barry, tell us what you really think JTT -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rittman, Barry R Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 4:16 PM To: 'Histonet' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I think that the entire system needs a good enema. Ever since I started work in a lab in 1957, salaries have been poor and not kept up with cost of living or reflected the skill of many of the histotechs. I feel that one of the major problems is that we have several categories of histotechs. Certified (I mean that in the nicest sense of the word!). Certified and also highly skilled. Skilled via on the job training. Robotic technicians. Until a system is put into place that requires all histotechs to be certified, or in training along a specific career pathway then things will never change. Along with this must be a system that requires employers to have well defined career paths for all their histotechs. This must include training outside of the routine work that they need to do in their specific laboratory. I must agree that getting rid of the practical part of the examination was how can I put this delicately ... imbecilic. The workplace needs to get back to being less of a bottom line factory in which careers of the employees is often not a consideration to a place where career paths are an integral part of the employment. The optimal environment is one where there is a two way street where both employer and employee benefit. While money is a consideration, it is not the only reason that individuals continue to work in a specific lab. Barry -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Judith L. Williams Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 1:36 PM To: Pamela Marcum Cc: 'Histonet'; 'Donna Hunter' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Hi all in histo world - well, time to get on the bandwagon! so, I agree with the other Old TEchs that came through the hard way like I did- it was much more of a challenge and the certification really meant something you worked HARD for! How do we pass that on the our newer techs. I think it is up to us to make sure they know how to do things- how to troubleshoot- how to make things by hand should they not get in the order of pre-made stuff! In a busy work world it is a challenge- but the only way they will learn now is if we train them. Are the schools doing this? yes, some are. The students that work with someone who has time to train them correctly OJT or otherwise are the lucky ones. Like the one working for you Pamela. Hopefully she will be able to pass on her knowledge to others. And for the certification - yes, the histology techs need to be certified- or they are called Histology Lab Assistants- even though they can cut or embed. and it is Tuesday. not even Friday Judy On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Pamela Marcum wrote: Ah, the memories of having to find the tissue then gross, process, stain and wait. You are absolutely correct it was a very exciting time to open that envelope and find out I passed the both tests. Doing everything manually
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
And another note- research labs think they can train anyone to do histology (trust me on this) and then can't figure out why their stuff is crap and then try to tell us how to do our job. This just happened and it wasn't the processing (we did it) but the quality of the sample submitted! As we are classified at NU as Sr. Research techs, we have to really fight the U for salary and we are only in the middle of the scale, but we are in a very relaxed atmosphere. Bernice Bernice Frederick HTL (ASCP) Northwestern University Pathology Core Facility ECOGPCO-RL 710 N Fairbanks Court Olson 8-421 Chicago,IL 60611 312-503-3723 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of JoeNocito Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 6:39 PM To: 'Rittman, Barry R'; 'Histonet' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Don't hold back Barry, tell us what you really think JTT -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rittman, Barry R Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 4:16 PM To: 'Histonet' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I think that the entire system needs a good enema. Ever since I started work in a lab in 1957, salaries have been poor and not kept up with cost of living or reflected the skill of many of the histotechs. I feel that one of the major problems is that we have several categories of histotechs. Certified (I mean that in the nicest sense of the word!). Certified and also highly skilled. Skilled via on the job training. Robotic technicians. Until a system is put into place that requires all histotechs to be certified, or in training along a specific career pathway then things will never change. Along with this must be a system that requires employers to have well defined career paths for all their histotechs. This must include training outside of the routine work that they need to do in their specific laboratory. I must agree that getting rid of the practical part of the examination was how can I put this delicately ... imbecilic. The workplace needs to get back to being less of a bottom line factory in which careers of the employees is often not a consideration to a place where career paths are an integral part of the employment. The optimal environment is one where there is a two way street where both employer and employee benefit. While money is a consideration, it is not the only reason that individuals continue to work in a specific lab. Barry -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Judith L. Williams Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 1:36 PM To: Pamela Marcum Cc: 'Histonet'; 'Donna Hunter' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Hi all in histo world - well, time to get on the bandwagon! so, I agree with the other Old TEchs that came through the hard way like I did- it was much more of a challenge and the certification really meant something you worked HARD for! How do we pass that on the our newer techs. I think it is up to us to make sure they know how to do things- how to troubleshoot- how to make things by hand should they not get in the order of pre-made stuff! In a busy work world it is a challenge- but the only way they will learn now is if we train them. Are the schools doing this? yes, some are. The students that work with someone who has time to train them correctly OJT or otherwise are the lucky ones. Like the one working for you Pamela. Hopefully she will be able to pass on her knowledge to others. And for the certification - yes, the histology techs need to be certified- or they are called Histology Lab Assistants- even though they can cut or embed. and it is Tuesday. not even Friday Judy On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Pamela Marcum wrote: Ah, the memories of having to find the tissue then gross, process, stain and wait. You are absolutely correct it was a very exciting time to open that envelope and find out I passed the both tests. Doing everything manually from cutting, mounting and staining was nerve racking and worth every minute. I knew what each stain would do and how to make it the best I could by hand. I don't think the automated units give the same satisfaction and don't teach troubleshooting the way we learned it. I made my stains so if it did not work it was on me and no one else. We still do for new stains. I am training someone now. She will know how to make the stains and what will break the stains so even if we get an automated stainer it will be something she will still be able troubleshoot. We do buy some stains as soon as I know she understands why and how to make them. I won't even start on IHC as I began with IF in brain when no kits were available and we made the secondary after buying a primary. It was actually
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Barry: I would not use an enema because you know what comes out when you put an enema in! René J. --- On Tue, 2/17/09, Rittman, Barry R barry.r.ritt...@uth.tmc.edu wrote: From: Rittman, Barry R barry.r.ritt...@uth.tmc.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: 'Histonet' histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 5:16 PM I think that the entire system needs a good enema. Ever since I started work in a lab in 1957, salaries have been poor and not kept up with cost of living or reflected the skill of many of the histotechs. I feel that one of the major problems is that we have several categories of histotechs. Certified (I mean that in the nicest sense of the word!). Certified and also highly skilled. Skilled via on the job training. Robotic technicians. Until a system is put into place that requires all histotechs to be certified, or in training along a specific career pathway then things will never change. Along with this must be a system that requires employers to have well defined career paths for all their histotechs. This must include training outside of the routine work that they need to do in their specific laboratory. I must agree that getting rid of the practical part of the examination was how can I put this delicately ... imbecilic. The workplace needs to get back to being less of a bottom line factory in which careers of the employees is often not a consideration to a place where career paths are an integral part of the employment. The optimal environment is one where there is a two way street where both employer and employee benefit. While money is a consideration, it is not the only reason that individuals continue to work in a specific lab. Barry -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Judith L. Williams Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 1:36 PM To: Pamela Marcum Cc: 'Histonet'; 'Donna Hunter' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Hi all in histo world - well, time to get on the bandwagon! so, I agree with the other Old TEchs that came through the hard way like I did- it was much more of a challenge and the certification really meant something you worked HARD for! How do we pass that on the our newer techs. I think it is up to us to make sure they know how to do things- how to troubleshoot- how to make things by hand should they not get in the order of pre-made stuff! In a busy work world it is a challenge- but the only way they will learn now is if we train them. Are the schools doing this? yes, some are. The students that work with someone who has time to train them correctly OJT or otherwise are the lucky ones. Like the one working for you Pamela. Hopefully she will be able to pass on her knowledge to others. And for the certification - yes, the histology techs need to be certified- or they are called Histology Lab Assistants- even though they can cut or embed. and it is Tuesday. not even Friday Judy On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Pamela Marcum wrote: Ah, the memories of having to find the tissue then gross, process, stain and wait. You are absolutely correct it was a very exciting time to open that envelope and find out I passed the both tests. Doing everything manually from cutting, mounting and staining was nerve racking and worth every minute. I knew what each stain would do and how to make it the best I could by hand. I don't think the automated units give the same satisfaction and don't teach troubleshooting the way we learned it. I made my stains so if it did not work it was on me and no one else. We still do for new stains. I am training someone now. She will know how to make the stains and what will break the stains so even if we get an automated stainer it will be something she will still be able troubleshoot. We do buy some stains as soon as I know she understands why and how to make them. I won't even start on IHC as I began with IF in brain when no kits were available and we made the secondary after buying a primary. It was actually fun to learn and had helped me over the years. Pamela A Marcum University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL) 382 W Street Rd Kennett Square PA 19438 610-925-6278 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Donna Hunter Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:53 AM To: Hermina Borgerink; Histonet Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I agree!!! I remember 29 years ago, I worked full time, had to do my practical after hours and on the weekends was really proud of what I accomplished completing that practical and passing it. Also Sitting in that chair in the big auditorium for the longest 4 hours of my life trying to read and take that test looking at those faded bent paper
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
True but unfortunately whatever hits the fan is not evenly distributed Barry From: Bernice Frederick [b-freder...@northwestern.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 9:29 AM To: rjbu...@yahoo.com; 'Histonet'; Rittman, Barry R Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Good one René!! Bernice Frederick HTL (ASCP) Northwestern University Pathology Core Facility ECOGPCO-RL 710 N Fairbanks Court Olson 8-421 Chicago,IL 60611 312-503-3723 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:42 AM To: 'Histonet'; Rittman, Barry R Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Barry: I would not use an enema because you know what comes out when you put an enema in! René J. --- On Tue, 2/17/09, Rittman, Barry R barry.r.ritt...@uth.tmc.edu wrote: From: Rittman, Barry R barry.r.ritt...@uth.tmc.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: 'Histonet' histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 5:16 PM I think that the entire system needs a good enema. Ever since I started work in a lab in 1957, salaries have been poor and not kept up with cost of living or reflected the skill of many of the histotechs. I feel that one of the major problems is that we have several categories of histotechs. Certified (I mean that in the nicest sense of the word!). Certified and also highly skilled. Skilled via on the job training. Robotic technicians. Until a system is put into place that requires all histotechs to be certified, or in training along a specific career pathway then things will never change. Along with this must be a system that requires employers to have well defined career paths for all their histotechs. This must include training outside of the routine work that they need to do in their specific laboratory. I must agree that getting rid of the practical part of the examination was how can I put this delicately ... imbecilic. The workplace needs to get back to being less of a bottom line factory in which careers of the employees is often not a consideration to a place where career paths are an integral part of the employment. The optimal environment is one where there is a two way street where both employer and employee benefit. While money is a consideration, it is not the only reason that individuals continue to work in a specific lab. Barry -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Judith L. Williams Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 1:36 PM To: Pamela Marcum Cc: 'Histonet'; 'Donna Hunter' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Hi all in histo world - well, time to get on the bandwagon! so, I agree with the other Old TEchs that came through the hard way like I did- it was much more of a challenge and the certification really meant something you worked HARD for! How do we pass that on the our newer techs. I think it is up to us to make sure they know how to do things- how to troubleshoot- how to make things by hand should they not get in the order of pre-made stuff! In a busy work world it is a challenge- but the only way they will learn now is if we train them. Are the schools doing this? yes, some are. The students that work with someone who has time to train them correctly OJT or otherwise are the lucky ones. Like the one working for you Pamela. Hopefully she will be able to pass on her knowledge to others. And for the certification - yes, the histology techs need to be certified- or they are called Histology Lab Assistants- even though they can cut or embed. and it is Tuesday. not even Friday Judy On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Pamela Marcum wrote: Ah, the memories of having to find the tissue then gross, process, stain and wait. You are absolutely correct it was a very exciting time to open that envelope and find out I passed the both tests. Doing everything manually from cutting, mounting and staining was nerve racking and worth every minute. I knew what each stain would do and how to make it the best I could by hand. I don't think the automated units give the same satisfaction and don't teach troubleshooting the way we learned it. I made my stains so if it did not work it was on me and no one else. We still do for new stains. I am training someone now. She will know how to make the stains and what will break the stains so even if we get an automated stainer it will be something she will still be able troubleshoot. We do buy some stains as soon as I know she understands why and how to make them. I won't even start on IHC as I began with IF in brain when no kits were available and we made the secondary after buying a primary. It was actually fun to learn and had helped me over the years. Pamela A Marcum University
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Judy, Judy, You are exactly on the right track! I remember when I was training I worked with several techs. many shared their expertise, tricks and the little nuances we all have to make that tissue cut better or the stain to 'pop' They made me do the troubleshooting with gentle prodding, quizzing me along the way and making me use the knowledge they gave me to find the answers. I'm the tech I am today because of these gracious ladies. I also worked with a few who would not share. We all know techs like this. The one's that view knowledge as power and job security and they dont get the team mentality. I never withhold information; actually I try and share with my OJT people everything I can to make them better techs. I currently use the Histo-QIP program through CAP to have an independent source view and grade their work; we then use it as part of our QA program. They will eventually take the exam. It is up to us to share and teach. Again my opinion, take it for what its worth. Cheryl Miller HT (ASCP) Histology Supervisor Physicians Laboratory,P.C. Omaha, Ne. 402 738 5052 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Judith L. Williams Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 1:36 PM To: Pamela Marcum Cc: 'Histonet'; 'Donna Hunter' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Hi all in histo world - well, time to get on the bandwagon! so, I agree with the other Old TEchs that came through the hard way like I did- it was much more of a challenge and the certification really meant something you worked HARD for! How do we pass that on the our newer techs. I think it is up to us to make sure they know how to do things- how to troubleshoot- how to make things by hand should they not get in the order of pre-made stuff! In a busy work world it is a challenge- but the only way they will learn now is if we train them. Are the schools doing this? yes, some are. The students that work with someone who has time to train them correctly OJT or otherwise are the lucky ones. Like the one working for you Pamela. Hopefully she will be able to pass on her knowledge to others. And for the certification - yes, the histology techs need to be certified- or they are called Histology Lab Assistants- even though they can cut or embed. and it is Tuesday. not even Friday Judy On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Pamela Marcum wrote: Ah, the memories of having to find the tissue then gross, process, stain and wait. You are absolutely correct it was a very exciting time to open that envelope and find out I passed the both tests. Doing everything manually from cutting, mounting and staining was nerve racking and worth every minute. I knew what each stain would do and how to make it the best I could by hand. I don't think the automated units give the same satisfaction and don't teach troubleshooting the way we learned it. I made my stains so if it did not work it was on me and no one else. We still do for new stains. I am training someone now. She will know how to make the stains and what will break the stains so even if we get an automated stainer it will be something she will still be able troubleshoot. We do buy some stains as soon as I know she understands why and how to make them. I wont even start on IHC as I began with IF in brain when no kits were available and we made the secondary after buying a primary. It was actually fun to learn and had helped me over the years. Pamela A Marcum University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL) 382 W Street Rd Kennett Square PA 19438 610-925-6278 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Donna Hunter Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:53 AM To: Hermina Borgerink; Histonet Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I agree!!! I remember 29 years ago, I worked full time, had to do my practical after hours and on the weekends was really proud of what I accomplished completing that practical and passing it. Also Sitting in that chair in the big auditorium for the longest 4 hours of my life trying to read and take that test looking at those faded bent paper slides of stains was so proud when I got that envelope stating I passed. I think they need to bring back the old written test and slides that they used before all this computer enhancement. Donna -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Hermina Borgerink Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:29 AM To: Histonet Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology It is my personal opinion that all Histology techs working within a clinical setting today should be certified. Period. Histology requirements are no longer what
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Thanks for the clarification Bernice! -Original Message- From: Bernice Frederick [mailto:b-freder...@northwestern.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 1:31 PM To: Molinari, Betsy Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Betsy I was referring to those researchers that bring the crap (non-techs trying to do the histo). Not what we do. I do feel we are second class citizens because it is felt that anyone can do histo. They read a procedure in a paper and think we can do magic or, my favorite, give us IHC conditions that are done by hand and we do it on the autostainer. Sorry if you took it the wrong way. I was not picking on histotechs, but the non-knowledgable researcher that think they are histotechs and know more about it because the might have a PhD. I could get really started on that. I had to explain to someone the difference between a cross, longitudinal and tangential section and this person was supposed to have a science background! Bernice Bernice Frederick HTL (ASCP) Northwestern University Pathology Core Facility ECOGPCO-RL 710 N Fairbanks Court Olson 8-421 Chicago,IL 60611 312-503-3723 -Original Message- From: Molinari, Betsy [mailto:bmolin...@heart.thi.tmc.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:54 PM To: Bernice Frederick Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I don't like the generality of this statement. I work in a research lab and my stuff is not crap. The people that I work with do not produce crap, HT or no HT. I find research more challenging in fact than clinical. Everyday I get animal specimens of all types in various fixatives. Some have device implants of various materials and some are looking for cellular changes. Everything must be of photographic quality. I take great pride in my work and other techs in my department. At times I do receive samples that have been abused by the doctor or research fellow but that is not my labs' fault and we will speak to the researcher about future handling of their samples. Maybe I misunderstood and am reacting too strongly to you statement, but I get tired of some thinking that research histo techs are second class citizens. Betsy Molinari HT (ASCP) Texas Heart Institute Cardiovascular Pathology 6770 Bertner Ave Houston, TX 77030 832-355-6524 832-355-6812 (fax) -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Bernice Frederick Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 7:33 AM To: 'JoeNocito'; 'Rittman, Barry R'; 'Histonet' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology And another note- research labs think they can train anyone to do histology (trust me on this) and then can't figure out why their stuff is crap and then try to tell us how to do our job. This just happened and it wasn't the processing (we did it) but the quality of the sample submitted! As we are classified at NU as Sr. Research techs, we have to really fight the U for salary and we are only in the middle of the scale, but we are in a very relaxed atmosphere. Bernice Bernice Frederick HTL (ASCP) Northwestern University Pathology Core Facility ECOGPCO-RL 710 N Fairbanks Court Olson 8-421 Chicago,IL 60611 312-503-3723 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of JoeNocito Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 6:39 PM To: 'Rittman, Barry R'; 'Histonet' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Don't hold back Barry, tell us what you really think JTT -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rittman, Barry R Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 4:16 PM To: 'Histonet' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I think that the entire system needs a good enema. Ever since I started work in a lab in 1957, salaries have been poor and not kept up with cost of living or reflected the skill of many of the histotechs. I feel that one of the major problems is that we have several categories of histotechs. Certified (I mean that in the nicest sense of the word!). Certified and also highly skilled. Skilled via on the job training. Robotic technicians. Until a system is put into place that requires all histotechs to be certified, or in training along a specific career pathway then things will never change. Along with this must be a system that requires employers to have well defined career paths for all their histotechs. This must include training outside of the routine work that they need to do in their specific laboratory. I must agree that getting rid of the practical part of the examination was how can I put this delicately ... imbecilic. The workplace needs to get back to being less of a bottom line factory in which careers of the employees is often not a consideration to a place where career paths are an integral part
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Well, there's the Pot calling the Kettle black Janet From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu on behalf of JoeNocito Sent: Tue 2/17/2009 7:38 PM To: 'Rittman, Barry R'; 'Histonet' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Don't hold back Barry, tell us what you really think JTT -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rittman, Barry R Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 4:16 PM To: 'Histonet' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I think that the entire system needs a good enema. Ever since I started work in a lab in 1957, salaries have been poor and not kept up with cost of living or reflected the skill of many of the histotechs. I feel that one of the major problems is that we have several categories of histotechs. Certified (I mean that in the nicest sense of the word!). Certified and also highly skilled. Skilled via on the job training. Robotic technicians. Until a system is put into place that requires all histotechs to be certified, or in training along a specific career pathway then things will never change. Along with this must be a system that requires employers to have well defined career paths for all their histotechs. This must include training outside of the routine work that they need to do in their specific laboratory. I must agree that getting rid of the practical part of the examination was how can I put this delicately ... imbecilic. The workplace needs to get back to being less of a bottom line factory in which careers of the employees is often not a consideration to a place where career paths are an integral part of the employment. The optimal environment is one where there is a two way street where both employer and employee benefit. While money is a consideration, it is not the only reason that individuals continue to work in a specific lab. Barry -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Judith L. Williams Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 1:36 PM To: Pamela Marcum Cc: 'Histonet'; 'Donna Hunter' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Hi all in histo world - well, time to get on the bandwagon! so, I agree with the other Old TEchs that came through the hard way like I did- it was much more of a challenge and the certification really meant something you worked HARD for! How do we pass that on the our newer techs. I think it is up to us to make sure they know how to do things- how to troubleshoot- how to make things by hand should they not get in the order of pre-made stuff! In a busy work world it is a challenge- but the only way they will learn now is if we train them. Are the schools doing this? yes, some are. The students that work with someone who has time to train them correctly OJT or otherwise are the lucky ones. Like the one working for you Pamela. Hopefully she will be able to pass on her knowledge to others. And for the certification - yes, the histology techs need to be certified- or they are called Histology Lab Assistants- even though they can cut or embed. and it is Tuesday. not even Friday Judy On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Pamela Marcum wrote: Ah, the memories of having to find the tissue then gross, process, stain and wait. You are absolutely correct it was a very exciting time to open that envelope and find out I passed the both tests. Doing everything manually from cutting, mounting and staining was nerve racking and worth every minute. I knew what each stain would do and how to make it the best I could by hand. I don't think the automated units give the same satisfaction and don't teach troubleshooting the way we learned it. I made my stains so if it did not work it was on me and no one else. We still do for new stains. I am training someone now. She will know how to make the stains and what will break the stains so even if we get an automated stainer it will be something she will still be able troubleshoot. We do buy some stains as soon as I know she understands why and how to make them. I won't even start on IHC as I began with IF in brain when no kits were available and we made the secondary after buying a primary. It was actually fun to learn and had helped me over the years. Pamela A Marcum University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL) 382 W Street Rd Kennett Square PA 19438 610-925-6278 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Donna Hunter Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:53 AM To: Hermina Borgerink; Histonet Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I agree!!! I remember 29 years ago, I worked full time, had to do my practical after hours and on the weekends
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
I don't know what you mean.. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Bonner, Janet Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 2:49 PM To: JoeNocito; Rittman, Barry R; Histonet Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Well, there's the Pot calling the Kettle black Janet From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu on behalf of JoeNocito Sent: Tue 2/17/2009 7:38 PM To: 'Rittman, Barry R'; 'Histonet' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Don't hold back Barry, tell us what you really think JTT -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rittman, Barry R Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 4:16 PM To: 'Histonet' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I think that the entire system needs a good enema. Ever since I started work in a lab in 1957, salaries have been poor and not kept up with cost of living or reflected the skill of many of the histotechs. I feel that one of the major problems is that we have several categories of histotechs. Certified (I mean that in the nicest sense of the word!). Certified and also highly skilled. Skilled via on the job training. Robotic technicians. Until a system is put into place that requires all histotechs to be certified, or in training along a specific career pathway then things will never change. Along with this must be a system that requires employers to have well defined career paths for all their histotechs. This must include training outside of the routine work that they need to do in their specific laboratory. I must agree that getting rid of the practical part of the examination was how can I put this delicately ... imbecilic. The workplace needs to get back to being less of a bottom line factory in which careers of the employees is often not a consideration to a place where career paths are an integral part of the employment. The optimal environment is one where there is a two way street where both employer and employee benefit. While money is a consideration, it is not the only reason that individuals continue to work in a specific lab. Barry -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Judith L. Williams Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 1:36 PM To: Pamela Marcum Cc: 'Histonet'; 'Donna Hunter' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Hi all in histo world - well, time to get on the bandwagon! so, I agree with the other Old TEchs that came through the hard way like I did- it was much more of a challenge and the certification really meant something you worked HARD for! How do we pass that on the our newer techs. I think it is up to us to make sure they know how to do things- how to troubleshoot- how to make things by hand should they not get in the order of pre-made stuff! In a busy work world it is a challenge- but the only way they will learn now is if we train them. Are the schools doing this? yes, some are. The students that work with someone who has time to train them correctly OJT or otherwise are the lucky ones. Like the one working for you Pamela. Hopefully she will be able to pass on her knowledge to others. And for the certification - yes, the histology techs need to be certified- or they are called Histology Lab Assistants- even though they can cut or embed. and it is Tuesday. not even Friday Judy On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Pamela Marcum wrote: Ah, the memories of having to find the tissue then gross, process, stain and wait. You are absolutely correct it was a very exciting time to open that envelope and find out I passed the both tests. Doing everything manually from cutting, mounting and staining was nerve racking and worth every minute. I knew what each stain would do and how to make it the best I could by hand. I don't think the automated units give the same satisfaction and don't teach troubleshooting the way we learned it. I made my stains so if it did not work it was on me and no one else. We still do for new stains. I am training someone now. She will know how to make the stains and what will break the stains so even if we get an automated stainer it will be something she will still be able troubleshoot. We do buy some stains as soon as I know she understands why and how to make them. I won't even start on IHC as I began with IF in brain when no kits were available and we made the secondary after buying a primary. It was actually fun to learn and had helped me over the years. Pamela A Marcum University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL) 382 W Street Rd Kennett Square PA 19438 610-925-6278 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
I agree with the overseas tech issue...my experience at Ventana Medical allowed me to meet alot of well educated techs from across the ocean. What difference does it make where the education comes from, as long as the candidate is qualified to do the job? I think an ASCP certification should be obtained allowing the applicant to use his/her credentials, and a state license (if applicable) without having to go back for a degree they already have. We knew long before 2005, that the histology world was going in new directions and that a histotech would be required to be certified. I fear that at some point, hospitals will not hire any non-registered techs (of any kind). Just my 2 cents worth ~Kim Tournear ~HT (ASCP), QIHC (ASCP) Histology Supervisor Tucson Medical Center Tucson, AZ ~Don't let your life end before it begins~ OU Rocks --- On Mon, 2/16/09, Bernice Frederick b-freder...@northwestern.edu wrote: From: Bernice Frederick b-freder...@northwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: 'Larry Woody' slappyc...@yahoo.com, histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 7:28 AM Agreed. Kind of devalues one's education if there are uncertified techs. I also think that it's silly that techs from outside the US are sometimes forced to repeat their 4 years of college when they have the knowledge and the equivalency from wherever and can do the job better than some techs doing it for years. Bernice Bernice Frederick HTL (ASCP) Northwestern University Pathology Core Facility ECOGPCO-RL 710 N Fairbanks Court Olson 8-421 Chicago,IL 60611 312-503-3723 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Larry Woody Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:10 AM To: rjbu...@yahoo.com; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley Subject: Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology This has been an ongoing issue for so many years in histology, I've always wanted to see a mandatory license in the field but that always starts a firestorm of controversy. If you have surgery, you certainly want a board certified surgeon to do it and same with the Pathologist that looks at the slides so wouldn't you want a certified tech doing the lab work as well? Larry A. Woody Seattle, Wa. From: Rene J Buesa rjbu...@yahoo.com To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 7:58:26 AM Subject: Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology A hospital that relies on uncertified techs to do histology work is motivated by the pursue of costs cuts (you can call it greed!) and shows total disregard for quality of work and patient care. They may end losing all those savings when settling a legal case. René J. --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com Subject: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 9:55 AM Any thoughts or experiences with my fellow HT/HTL's(ASCP). What the big advantage do all these facilities think there gaining by going with unregistered techs, especially when theres always ongoing quality issues when theres so many trained certified HT looking for work? In my area of the country I can't believe how many Hospitals go this way. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
I forgot something The lack of programs has hurt the histology world over the years...I don't see anything wrong with OJT (after all, that's how I learned) as long as the histotechs doing the training are well qualified and can teach it properly...I think OJT should be brought back as a ROI for the exam... However: There is the issue with the direction histology has been moving in over the past 10+ years: i.e. ISH, FISH, SISH, etc, etc, etc This is where the degree would be a benefit to a person due to the theory side of it, but at the same time it still can be taught OJT just like me (at Ventana). Honestly, a degree doesn't always mean that a person will make a good tech. After all, it's only a piece of paper...it's whether or not a tech can take that degree and apply it... Again, my 2 cents worth ~Kim Tournear~ HT (ASCP), QIHC (ASCP) Histology Supervisor Tucson Medical Center Tucson, AZ ~Don't let your life end before it begins~ OU Rocks --- On Mon, 2/16/09, Bernice Frederick b-freder...@northwestern.edu wrote: From: Bernice Frederick b-freder...@northwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: 'Martin, Gary' gmar...@marshallmedical.org, histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 7:30 AM So take the registry exam Bernice Frederick HTL (ASCP) Northwestern University Pathology Core Facility ECOGPCO-RL 710 N Fairbanks Court Olson 8-421 Chicago,IL 60611 312-503-3723 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Martin, Gary Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:27 AM To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I am one of those unregistered techs. I would respectfully hope that we are not considered the villains here. My situation is; we are a small lab in a rural area that has the need for 1 1/2 Histo Techs. We were having a very difficult time attracting a 1/2 time qualified tech., and had zero backup for our one and only full time qualified tech. I have a good back ground in detail work in the art world and a good amount of experience as a pathology lab assistant. So it was easy for me to transition into the role of unregistered tech, thereby providing back for our over work Histo tech. I have been trained by my Histo tech and have completed the Freida L. Carson self instruction course under her supervision. We are happy with the results and our Pathologist are pleased. At this point (7 years into teching) there are some things that I have been innovative on some things, and our tech prefers me to do other things. I would love to get certified but the changes in OTJ have made that more of a mountain than I can climb at this time. I would like to lend voice to us who are in this situation and say the we take our duties very serious and I really don't look at my job as getting over on rules or quality or providing cheap labor. In our case it has been necessity. Thank you Gary -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Watson, Linda Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:34 AM To: Mary Abosso; Steven Coakley; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I totally agree with Mary. I have often heard that histotechs are a dying breed. That us old timers are not being replaced by the younger generation. If we want to have less uncertified histotechs then lets not make it so difficult for individuals to pursue this wonderful career. I still think it is very important for the exam to remain in place but those individuals out of high school that are maybe not thinking of attending college to obtain a bachelors degree should have the opportunity to become a certified histologist. I know that you can still obtain the HT but not the HTL. Correct me if I am wrong. Linda -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet- boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Mary Abosso Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:19 AM To: Steven Coakley; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Many areas have to go to unregistered techs out of necessity due to the high vacancy rate in our field since the ASCP made changes to the career path for the HT board requirements. Many of these facilities have either formal or informal training and have turned out many very good, high quality techs. Yes, some may be skilled at the art of histology, but lack the understanding that is behind the science. These often can embed, cut and do special stains with superior quality and happy pathologists. I have seen registered techs that have all the intelligence that their sheepskins say, but totally lack the hands on skills needed to produce superior quality
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
I agree!!! I remember 29 years ago, I worked full time, had to do my practical after hours and on the weekends was really proud of what I accomplished completing that practical and passing it. Also Sitting in that chair in the big auditorium for the longest 4 hours of my life trying to read and take that test looking at those faded bent paper slides of stains was so proud when I got that envelope stating I passed. I think they need to bring back the old written test and slides that they used before all this computer enhancement. Donna -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Hermina Borgerink Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:29 AM To: Histonet Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology It is my personal opinion that all Histology techs working within a clinical setting today should be certified. Period. Histology requirements are no longer what they used to be as complexity of procedures used in the lab are increasingly becoming more demanding. I started out in 1961 straight out of high school, but since then, over time, have gotten my HT, BA in biology, HTL, and IHQ, all while continuing to work full time. I think it was a terrible mistake to abandon the practical exam for the HT/HTL and rely solely on the written exam to judge the expertise of the candidate for ASCP certification. Automation probably played a crucial part in making the hands-on experience obsolete, but I think that practical experience was invaluable because it reinforced and illuminated what the written material was teaching. And while automation undoubtedly has many benefits, unfortunately, it can also promote dumbing-down as it requires little or no interaction with the user of the laboratory equipment. While I was getting my personalized OTJ training from a pathologist in a medical school's experimental setting, it was always understood that although we were working with animal tissue, the patient's welfare ultimately was the bottom line. This attitude not only inspired good laboratory practice, but also the desire to learn and to do the best possible job I could. To this day I find it immensely rewarding to perform special and IHC stains by hand and achieve the expected results. So many other professions demand a college education followed by, or in conjunction with, training in a particular skill, so why should our profession be any different? With an increased level of education and training will come a larger pay check and the well-deserved respect so frequently lacking now. Hermina Hermina M. Borgerink, BA, HT, HTL(ASCP)QIHC Wake Forest University Primate Center Department of Pathology Medical Center Blvd. Winston-Salem, NC 27157 Tel. (336) 716-1538 Fax. (336) 716-1515 e-mail: hborg...@wfubmc.edu -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Kim Tournear Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:53 AM To: Histonet Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I agree with the overseas tech issue...my experience at Ventana Medical allowed me to meet alot of well educated techs from across the ocean. What difference does it make where the education comes from, as long as the candidate is qualified to do the job? I think an ASCP certification should be obtained allowing the applicant to use his/her credentials, and a state license (if applicable) without having to go back for a degree they already have. We knew long before 2005, that the histology world was going in new directions and that a histotech would be required to be certified. I fear that at some point, hospitals will not hire any non-registered techs (of any kind). Just my 2 cents worth ~Kim Tournear ~HT (ASCP), QIHC (ASCP) Histology Supervisor Tucson Medical Center Tucson, AZ ~Don't let your life end before it begins~ OU Rocks --- On Mon, 2/16/09, Bernice Frederick b-freder...@northwestern.edu wrote: From: Bernice Frederick b-freder...@northwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: 'Larry Woody' slappyc...@yahoo.com, histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 7:28 AM Agreed. Kind of devalues one's education if there are uncertified techs. I also think that it's silly that techs from outside the US are sometimes forced to repeat their 4 years of college when they have the knowledge and the equivalency from wherever and can do the job better than some techs doing it for years. Bernice Bernice Frederick HTL (ASCP) Northwestern University Pathology Core Facility ECOGPCO-RL 710 N Fairbanks Court Olson 8-421 Chicago,IL 60611 312-503-3723 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Larry Woody Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:10 AM To: rjbu
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Ah, the memories of having to find the tissue then gross, process, stain and wait. You are absolutely correct it was a very exciting time to open that envelope and find out I passed the both tests. Doing everything manually from cutting, mounting and staining was nerve racking and worth every minute. I knew what each stain would do and how to make it the best I could by hand. I don't think the automated units give the same satisfaction and don't teach troubleshooting the way we learned it. I made my stains so if it did not work it was on me and no one else. We still do for new stains. I am training someone now. She will know how to make the stains and what will break the stains so even if we get an automated stainer it will be something she will still be able troubleshoot. We do buy some stains as soon as I know she understands why and how to make them. I wont even start on IHC as I began with IF in brain when no kits were available and we made the secondary after buying a primary. It was actually fun to learn and had helped me over the years. Pamela A Marcum University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL) 382 W Street Rd Kennett Square PA 19438 610-925-6278 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Donna Hunter Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:53 AM To: Hermina Borgerink; Histonet Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I agree!!! I remember 29 years ago, I worked full time, had to do my practical after hours and on the weekends was really proud of what I accomplished completing that practical and passing it. Also Sitting in that chair in the big auditorium for the longest 4 hours of my life trying to read and take that test looking at those faded bent paper slides of stains was so proud when I got that envelope stating I passed. I think they need to bring back the old written test and slides that they used before all this computer enhancement. Donna -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Hermina Borgerink Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:29 AM To: Histonet Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology It is my personal opinion that all Histology techs working within a clinical setting today should be certified. Period. Histology requirements are no longer what they used to be as complexity of procedures used in the lab are increasingly becoming more demanding. I started out in 1961 straight out of high school, but since then, over time, have gotten my HT, BA in biology, HTL, and IHQ, all while continuing to work full time. I think it was a terrible mistake to abandon the practical exam for the HT/HTL and rely solely on the written exam to judge the expertise of the candidate for ASCP certification. Automation probably played a crucial part in making the hands-on experience obsolete, but I think that practical experience was invaluable because it reinforced and illuminated what the written material was teaching. And while automation undoubtedly has many benefits, unfortunately, it can also promote dumbing-down as it requires little or no interaction with the user of the laboratory equipment. While I was getting my personalized OTJ training from a pathologist in a medical school's experimental setting, it was always understood that although we were working with animal tissue, the patient's welfare ultimately was the bottom line. This attitude not only inspired good laboratory practice, but also the desire to learn and to do the best possible job I could. To this day I find it immensely rewarding to perform special and IHC stains by hand and achieve the expected results. So many other professions demand a college education followed by, or in conjunction with, training in a particular skill, so why should our profession be any different? With an increased level of education and training will come a larger pay check and the well-deserved respect so frequently lacking now. Hermina Hermina M. Borgerink, BA, HT, HTL(ASCP)QIHC Wake Forest University Primate Center Department of Pathology Medical Center Blvd. Winston-Salem, NC 27157 Tel. (336) 716-1538 Fax. (336) 716-1515 e-mail: hborg...@wfubmc.edu -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Kim Tournear Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:53 AM To: Histonet Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I agree with the overseas tech issue...my experience at Ventana Medical allowed me to meet alot of well educated techs from across the ocean. What difference does it make where the education comes from, as long as the candidate is qualified to do the job? I think an ASCP certification should be obtained allowing the applicant to use his/her
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Hi all in histo world - well, time to get on the bandwagon! so, I agree with the other Old TEchs that came through the hard way like I did- it was much more of a challenge and the certification really meant something you worked HARD for! How do we pass that on the our newer techs. I think it is up to us to make sure they know how to do things- how to troubleshoot- how to make things by hand should they not get in the order of pre-made stuff! In a busy work world it is a challenge- but the only way they will learn now is if we train them. Are the schools doing this? yes, some are. The students that work with someone who has time to train them correctly OJT or otherwise are the lucky ones. Like the one working for you Pamela. Hopefully she will be able to pass on her knowledge to others. And for the certification - yes, the histology techs need to be certified- or they are called Histology Lab Assistants- even though they can cut or embed. and it is Tuesday. not even Friday Judy On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Pamela Marcum wrote: Ah, the memories of having to find the tissue then gross, process, stain and wait. You are absolutely correct it was a very exciting time to open that envelope and find out I passed the both tests. Doing everything manually from cutting, mounting and staining was nerve racking and worth every minute. I knew what each stain would do and how to make it the best I could by hand. I don't think the automated units give the same satisfaction and don't teach troubleshooting the way we learned it. I made my stains so if it did not work it was on me and no one else. We still do for new stains. I am training someone now. She will know how to make the stains and what will break the stains so even if we get an automated stainer it will be something she will still be able troubleshoot. We do buy some stains as soon as I know she understands why and how to make them. I wont even start on IHC as I began with IF in brain when no kits were available and we made the secondary after buying a primary. It was actually fun to learn and had helped me over the years. Pamela A Marcum University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL) 382 W Street Rd Kennett Square PA 19438 610-925-6278 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Donna Hunter Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:53 AM To: Hermina Borgerink; Histonet Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I agree!!! I remember 29 years ago, I worked full time, had to do my practical after hours and on the weekends was really proud of what I accomplished completing that practical and passing it. Also Sitting in that chair in the big auditorium for the longest 4 hours of my life trying to read and take that test looking at those faded bent paper slides of stains was so proud when I got that envelope stating I passed. I think they need to bring back the old written test and slides that they used before all this computer enhancement. Donna -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Hermina Borgerink Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:29 AM To: Histonet Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology It is my personal opinion that all Histology techs working within a clinical setting today should be certified. Period. Histology requirements are no longer what they used to be as complexity of procedures used in the lab are increasingly becoming more demanding. I started out in 1961 straight out of high school, but since then, over time, have gotten my HT, BA in biology, HTL, and IHQ, all while continuing to work full time. I think it was a terrible mistake to abandon the practical exam for the HT/HTL and rely solely on the written exam to judge the expertise of the candidate for ASCP certification. Automation probably played a crucial part in making the hands-on experience obsolete, but I think that practical experience was invaluable because it reinforced and illuminated what the written material was teaching. And while automation undoubtedly has many benefits, unfortunately, it can also promote dumbing-down as it requires little or no interaction with the user of the laboratory equipment. While I was getting my personalized OTJ training from a pathologist in a medical school's experimental setting, it was always understood that although we were working with animal tissue, the patient's welfare ultimately was the bottom line. This attitude not only inspired good laboratory practice, but also the desire to learn and to do the best possible job I could. To this day I find it immensely rewarding to perform special and IHC stains by hand and achieve the expected results. So many other professions demand a college education followed by, or in conjunction with, training
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
I think that the entire system needs a good enema. Ever since I started work in a lab in 1957, salaries have been poor and not kept up with cost of living or reflected the skill of many of the histotechs. I feel that one of the major problems is that we have several categories of histotechs. Certified (I mean that in the nicest sense of the word!). Certified and also highly skilled. Skilled via on the job training. Robotic technicians. Until a system is put into place that requires all histotechs to be certified, or in training along a specific career pathway then things will never change. Along with this must be a system that requires employers to have well defined career paths for all their histotechs. This must include training outside of the routine work that they need to do in their specific laboratory. I must agree that getting rid of the practical part of the examination was how can I put this delicately ... imbecilic. The workplace needs to get back to being less of a bottom line factory in which careers of the employees is often not a consideration to a place where career paths are an integral part of the employment. The optimal environment is one where there is a two way street where both employer and employee benefit. While money is a consideration, it is not the only reason that individuals continue to work in a specific lab. Barry -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Judith L. Williams Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 1:36 PM To: Pamela Marcum Cc: 'Histonet'; 'Donna Hunter' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Hi all in histo world - well, time to get on the bandwagon! so, I agree with the other Old TEchs that came through the hard way like I did- it was much more of a challenge and the certification really meant something you worked HARD for! How do we pass that on the our newer techs. I think it is up to us to make sure they know how to do things- how to troubleshoot- how to make things by hand should they not get in the order of pre-made stuff! In a busy work world it is a challenge- but the only way they will learn now is if we train them. Are the schools doing this? yes, some are. The students that work with someone who has time to train them correctly OJT or otherwise are the lucky ones. Like the one working for you Pamela. Hopefully she will be able to pass on her knowledge to others. And for the certification - yes, the histology techs need to be certified- or they are called Histology Lab Assistants- even though they can cut or embed. and it is Tuesday. not even Friday Judy On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Pamela Marcum wrote: Ah, the memories of having to find the tissue then gross, process, stain and wait. You are absolutely correct it was a very exciting time to open that envelope and find out I passed the both tests. Doing everything manually from cutting, mounting and staining was nerve racking and worth every minute. I knew what each stain would do and how to make it the best I could by hand. I don't think the automated units give the same satisfaction and don't teach troubleshooting the way we learned it. I made my stains so if it did not work it was on me and no one else. We still do for new stains. I am training someone now. She will know how to make the stains and what will break the stains so even if we get an automated stainer it will be something she will still be able troubleshoot. We do buy some stains as soon as I know she understands why and how to make them. I won't even start on IHC as I began with IF in brain when no kits were available and we made the secondary after buying a primary. It was actually fun to learn and had helped me over the years. Pamela A Marcum University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL) 382 W Street Rd Kennett Square PA 19438 610-925-6278 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Donna Hunter Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:53 AM To: Hermina Borgerink; Histonet Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I agree!!! I remember 29 years ago, I worked full time, had to do my practical after hours and on the weekends was really proud of what I accomplished completing that practical and passing it. Also Sitting in that chair in the big auditorium for the longest 4 hours of my life trying to read and take that test looking at those faded bent paper slides of stains was so proud when I got that envelope stating I passed. I think they need to bring back the old written test and slides that they used before all this computer enhancement. Donna -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Hermina
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Don't hold back Barry, tell us what you really think JTT -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rittman, Barry R Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 4:16 PM To: 'Histonet' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I think that the entire system needs a good enema. Ever since I started work in a lab in 1957, salaries have been poor and not kept up with cost of living or reflected the skill of many of the histotechs. I feel that one of the major problems is that we have several categories of histotechs. Certified (I mean that in the nicest sense of the word!). Certified and also highly skilled. Skilled via on the job training. Robotic technicians. Until a system is put into place that requires all histotechs to be certified, or in training along a specific career pathway then things will never change. Along with this must be a system that requires employers to have well defined career paths for all their histotechs. This must include training outside of the routine work that they need to do in their specific laboratory. I must agree that getting rid of the practical part of the examination was how can I put this delicately ... imbecilic. The workplace needs to get back to being less of a bottom line factory in which careers of the employees is often not a consideration to a place where career paths are an integral part of the employment. The optimal environment is one where there is a two way street where both employer and employee benefit. While money is a consideration, it is not the only reason that individuals continue to work in a specific lab. Barry -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Judith L. Williams Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 1:36 PM To: Pamela Marcum Cc: 'Histonet'; 'Donna Hunter' Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Hi all in histo world - well, time to get on the bandwagon! so, I agree with the other Old TEchs that came through the hard way like I did- it was much more of a challenge and the certification really meant something you worked HARD for! How do we pass that on the our newer techs. I think it is up to us to make sure they know how to do things- how to troubleshoot- how to make things by hand should they not get in the order of pre-made stuff! In a busy work world it is a challenge- but the only way they will learn now is if we train them. Are the schools doing this? yes, some are. The students that work with someone who has time to train them correctly OJT or otherwise are the lucky ones. Like the one working for you Pamela. Hopefully she will be able to pass on her knowledge to others. And for the certification - yes, the histology techs need to be certified- or they are called Histology Lab Assistants- even though they can cut or embed. and it is Tuesday. not even Friday Judy On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Pamela Marcum wrote: Ah, the memories of having to find the tissue then gross, process, stain and wait. You are absolutely correct it was a very exciting time to open that envelope and find out I passed the both tests. Doing everything manually from cutting, mounting and staining was nerve racking and worth every minute. I knew what each stain would do and how to make it the best I could by hand. I don't think the automated units give the same satisfaction and don't teach troubleshooting the way we learned it. I made my stains so if it did not work it was on me and no one else. We still do for new stains. I am training someone now. She will know how to make the stains and what will break the stains so even if we get an automated stainer it will be something she will still be able troubleshoot. We do buy some stains as soon as I know she understands why and how to make them. I won't even start on IHC as I began with IF in brain when no kits were available and we made the secondary after buying a primary. It was actually fun to learn and had helped me over the years. Pamela A Marcum University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL) 382 W Street Rd Kennett Square PA 19438 610-925-6278 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Donna Hunter Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:53 AM To: Hermina Borgerink; Histonet Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I agree!!! I remember 29 years ago, I worked full time, had to do my practical after hours and on the weekends was really proud of what I accomplished completing that practical and passing it. Also Sitting in that chair in the big auditorium for the longest 4 hours of my life trying to read and take that test looking at those faded bent paper slides of stains was so proud when I got
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
So take the registry exam Bernice Frederick HTL (ASCP) Northwestern University Pathology Core Facility ECOGPCO-RL 710 N Fairbanks Court Olson 8-421 Chicago,IL 60611 312-503-3723 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Martin, Gary Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:27 AM To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I am one of those unregistered techs. I would respectfully hope that we are not considered the villains here. My situation is; we are a small lab in a rural area that has the need for 1 1/2 Histo Techs. We were having a very difficult time attracting a 1/2 time qualified tech., and had zero backup for our one and only full time qualified tech. I have a good back ground in detail work in the art world and a good amount of experience as a pathology lab assistant. So it was easy for me to transition into the role of unregistered tech, thereby providing back for our over work Histo tech. I have been trained by my Histo tech and have completed the Freida L. Carson self instruction course under her supervision. We are happy with the results and our Pathologist are pleased. At this point (7 years into teching) there are some things that I have been innovative on some things, and our tech prefers me to do other things. I would love to get certified but the changes in OTJ have made that more of a mountain than I can climb at this time. I would like to lend voice to us who are in this situation and say the we take our duties very serious and I really don't look at my job as getting over on rules or quality or providing cheap labor. In our case it has been necessity. Thank you Gary -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Watson, Linda Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:34 AM To: Mary Abosso; Steven Coakley; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I totally agree with Mary. I have often heard that histotechs are a dying breed. That us old timers are not being replaced by the younger generation. If we want to have less uncertified histotechs then lets not make it so difficult for individuals to pursue this wonderful career. I still think it is very important for the exam to remain in place but those individuals out of high school that are maybe not thinking of attending college to obtain a bachelors degree should have the opportunity to become a certified histologist. I know that you can still obtain the HT but not the HTL. Correct me if I am wrong. Linda -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet- boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Mary Abosso Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:19 AM To: Steven Coakley; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Many areas have to go to unregistered techs out of necessity due to the high vacancy rate in our field since the ASCP made changes to the career path for the HT board requirements. Many of these facilities have either formal or informal training and have turned out many very good, high quality techs. Yes, some may be skilled at the art of histology, but lack the understanding that is behind the science. These often can embed, cut and do special stains with superior quality and happy pathologists. I have seen registered techs that have all the intelligence that their sheepskins say, but totally lack the hands on skills needed to produce superior quality material for patient diagnosis. While this is only my opinion, I wish that there was still the route for OJT as long as there is a certified tech in place for training. My two cents worth, Mary Abosso From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu on behalf of Steven Coakley Sent: Wed 2/11/2009 7:55 AM To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Any thoughts or experiences with my fellow HT/HTL's(ASCP). What the big advantage do all these facilities think there gaining by going with unregistered techs, especially when theres always ongoing quality issues when theres so many trained certified HT looking for work? In my area of the country I can't believe how many Hospitals go this way. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Joe is making good points here and I think it is something to think about for all of us. I know the Histology school at Pima Community College may be closing in Tucson AZ too. We keep trying for more schools and better book training as well as mixing in actual laboratory experience in histology in many areas of the country. It is not filling these positions and while I would like to see everyone certified and trained in a school it is not happening. I will be honest as some one trained as an OJT in the 60's I would not have gone on with this field had I not had great mentors. I could not thank Dr George Gantner enough for starting me off not Dorothy Nagy enough for my early training when we only had a few schools nationally and none close by. I got my HT later so I would always have it. My other education is really secondary to histology which I consider a great profession whether in clinical or research. It is also a point that very (and I mean very) few people even know what Histology is or how important it is to getting a correct surgical diagnosis. While we are talking about the shortage and where to get people we should be thinking of ways to market who we are and what we do so people want to become histologists. It is not happening and never will with ASCP nor is much going on with NSH as far as I can see. I attend and speak at state meetings and region meetings all over the country and we are all seeing the same thing and getting no help or feedback. AS a volunteer organization we can effect the areas we live in however, we need help to do it. We have a school here in my area at Delaware Technical Community College and it rotates people through various labs in the area. This is a bone lab and we show them plastics and other procedures we do that they may never see any place else. The University is nice enough to allow this so we have about two hours with them one on one for show and tell. I know for what we do it is a good chance to see a bone research lab for large animal study as opposed to rodent studies they will see in some areas. Pamela A Marcum University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL) 382 W Street Rd Kennett Square PA 19438 610-925-6278 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of JoeNocito Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:27 PM To: 'Morken, Tim'; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology FUEL to the FIRE (come on, it's me. Did you expect anything less?) I was told today that the Histology program at the local CC is in jeopardy of closing because the director (who is a MT) isn't supporting the program. The program director has talked to the Dean and a meeting is to take place next month: hopefully with local employers attending to state the point that this program is needed.. San Antonio is in dire need of techs such that, some techs are jumping from job to job for the most money. In my last place of employment, I hired HTs at first, then ran out of techs. Then I hired recent grads with the understanding that they would take the HT. My last hire at the last place was a lab aide, who files slides, coverslipped, etc. Before I left, we had him running special stains, embedding and cutting. We sat with him at the microscope to go over the special stains reactions, the chemicals and dyes that made the colors. He was surpassing some of the more experienced techs that have been working there for a longer period of time. My point is, registered or not, the fact is techs are in short supply, with good techs even fewer. I've seen some registered techs that I won't let touch a pimple on my left buttock, but this guy I was teaching could cut my prostate bxs, that's is how much faith I had in him. There is a wide rip in the PA world between programmed trained and OJT trained such that a member wrote a letter to the newsletter and said he was withdrawing his membership because he felt that since the ASCP took over the PA exam, there are less qualified PAs now because the ASCP made the exam too easy. This question has gone on for years. I went for my certifications because an old supervisor gave me the challenge that I wouldn't pass it, funny, that's what some people said about me when I took my PA exam too. The truth is, most of us are reaching the age where we need good histology. Although I would like it if everyone was certified, but the fact is as long as pathologists are willing to hire unregistered techs, this is a battle that goes on. Oh, by the way, I was discussing this same thing at a lecture one time. In the audience was a histology program director, who at break, went up to the other guy I was lecturing with, that she didn't agree with what I was saying. He told her that what I was saying was the truth( that there are many techs
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Joe and Pam have excellent points. We all need to advertise what we do. Here in Arkansas when you tell the regular folks (non-medical) that you are a Histology Technician. They ask do you do History research? I know that sounds ignorant but the public is not very well informed as to the other medical professionals in this world. Yes this includes even the Medical Technologists. Even the Cytotechnologists are an unknown or rarely known Medical Professional. All of this is because, in most cases, we work behind the scenes as support personnel for doctors, nurses, lpns, cnas, etc that the patients and their families see. When their loved one goes into the operating room for a biopsy they have no idea as to what it takes to make a diagnosis or to see why their loved one is so sick. I am very proud to be a Histology Technician and I have talked, showed, and advertised my profession for 46 years. If we all did this maybe we would have more folks to take our places when we retire. Maybe Frances L. Swain HT(ASCP) A. A. S. Special Procedures Technician Department of Orthopaedic Surgery Center for Orthopaedic Research Barton Research Building 2R28 4301 West Markham Street Little Rock AR 72205 (501) 686-8739 PHONE (501) 686-8987 FAX swainfranc...@uams.edu email -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Pamela Marcum Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:32 AM To: 'JoeNocito'; 'Morken, Tim'; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Joe is making good points here and I think it is something to think about for all of us. I know the Histology school at Pima Community College may be closing in Tucson AZ too. We keep trying for more schools and better book training as well as mixing in actual laboratory experience in histology in many areas of the country. It is not filling these positions and while I would like to see everyone certified and trained in a school it is not happening. I will be honest as some one trained as an OJT in the 60's I would not have gone on with this field had I not had great mentors. I could not thank Dr George Gantner enough for starting me off not Dorothy Nagy enough for my early training when we only had a few schools nationally and none close by. I got my HT later so I would always have it. My other education is really secondary to histology which I consider a great profession whether in clinical or research. It is also a point that very (and I mean very) few people even know what Histology is or how important it is to getting a correct surgical diagnosis. While we are talking about the shortage and where to get people we should be thinking of ways to market who we are and what we do so people want to become histologists. It is not happening and never will with ASCP nor is much going on with NSH as far as I can see. I attend and speak at state meetings and region meetings all over the country and we are all seeing the same thing and getting no help or feedback. AS a volunteer organization we can effect the areas we live in however, we need help to do it. We have a school here in my area at Delaware Technical Community College and it rotates people through various labs in the area. This is a bone lab and we show them plastics and other procedures we do that they may never see any place else. The University is nice enough to allow this so we have about two hours with them one on one for show and tell. I know for what we do it is a good chance to see a bone research lab for large animal study as opposed to rodent studies they will see in some areas. Pamela A Marcum University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL) 382 W Street Rd Kennett Square PA 19438 610-925-6278 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of JoeNocito Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:27 PM To: 'Morken, Tim'; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology FUEL to the FIRE (come on, it's me. Did you expect anything less?) I was told today that the Histology program at the local CC is in jeopardy of closing because the director (who is a MT) isn't supporting the program. The program director has talked to the Dean and a meeting is to take place next month: hopefully with local employers attending to state the point that this program is needed.. San Antonio is in dire need of techs such that, some techs are jumping from job to job for the most money. In my last place of employment, I hired HTs at first, then ran out of techs. Then I hired recent grads with the understanding that they would take the HT. My last hire at the last place was a lab aide, who files slides, coverslipped, etc. Before I left, we had him running special stains, embedding
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
We also take organs to our hospitals health fair they have every year at a local mall.The organs have been plastinated and are very safe for everyone to handle. They look like rubber but still are very real. Our section is always the biggest hit and the kids and parents love it. Hazel Horn Hazel Horn, HT/HTL (ASCP) Supervisor of Histology Arkansas Children's Hospital 1 Children's WaySlot 820 Little Rock, AR 72202 phone 501.364.4240 fax501.364.3155 visit us on the web at:www.archildrens.org -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Tom McNemar Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 10:48 AM To: Weems, Joyce; Swain, Frances L; Pamela Marcum; JoeNocito; Morken, Tim; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology We used to take parts but stopped due to safety concerns. Tried to encase them in acrylic but it turned yellow. Too bad, they were always a big hit. Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcne...@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org -Original Message- From: Weems, Joyce [mailto:jwe...@sjha.org] Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 11:41 AM To: Tom McNemar; Swain, Frances L; Pamela Marcum; JoeNocito; Morken, Tim; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology We have a collection of specimens - heart, lungs, kidneys, brains, etc. that I have taken to schools for health fairs. We also loan them to other health care professionals to use for this purpose also. We talk about smoking, drinking, eating, bike and skate board safety, etc as we have normal, emphysema and malignant lungs, and normal and cirrhosis liver. It is always a great hit with the kids. I take along brochures and talk to the students about this profession. I hope they remember! J Joyce Weems Pathology Manager Saint Joseph's Hospital 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Rd NE Atlanta, GA 30342 678-843-7376 - Phone 678-843-7831 - Fax -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Tom McNemar Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 11:33 AM To: Swain, Frances L; Pamela Marcum; JoeNocito; Morken, Tim; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology We attend career days and always take a microscope and brochures. The NSH has some wonderful free brochures, you only pay for the shipping. The Histology table is always one of the most popular. Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcne...@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org Confidentiality Notice: This email, including any attachments is the property of Catholic Health East and is intended for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, then delete this message. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ** The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
A sheepskin is what??? -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Mary Abosso Sent: 11 February 2009 16:19 To: Steven Coakley; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Many areas have to go to unregistered techs out of necessity due to the high vacancy rate in our field since the ASCP made changes to the career path for the HT board requirements. Many of these facilities have either formal or informal training and have turned out many very good, high quality techs. Yes, some may be skilled at the art of histology, but lack the understanding that is behind the science. These often can embed, cut and do special stains with superior quality and happy pathologists. I have seen registered techs that have all the intelligence that their sheepskins say, but totally lack the hands on skills needed to produce superior quality material for patient diagnosis. While this is only my opinion, I wish that there was still the route for OJT as long as there is a certified tech in place for training. My two cents worth, Mary Abosso From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu on behalf of Steven Coakley Sent: Wed 2/11/2009 7:55 AM To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Any thoughts or experiences with my fellow HT/HTL's(ASCP). What the big advantage do all these facilities think there gaining by going with unregistered techs, especially when theres always ongoing quality issues when theres so many trained certified HT looking for work? In my area of the country I can't believe how many Hospitals go this way. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
In response to what Tom McNemar wrote: I too, am a certified HT,HTL for 25 plus years and strongly agree with Tom. I followed a B.S. in Biology/Chemistry with training in a 2 year A.S. program that included a 6 month stint as an unpaid intern at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN. I guess I wish the practical test was still part of the certification process and that there were more schools available. I have to assume that economics dictated the demise of most, including the program I attended. I am proud to be certified, proud to have helped several very good OJT techs attain their certification, and very willing to admit paper does not a good tech make. We as Histotechs have benefited financially from our relative scarcity and suffered from lack of respect because of the loose standards. Having said all that, Histology has been a rewarding career and I hope we continue to produce high quality techs in the future. Jon Sorenson Histology Coordinator Mercy Medical Center jonsoren...@chiwest.com 208-463-5267 RE: Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org I'm sure that I'm gonna get blasted but.. I'm sorry but I stand by the statement. I have been a certified HT for 30 years now. I will take an uncertified tech who can get a quality slide to the pathologist in a timely fashion over one who can tell me about it but can't do it. We all know that they are out there. Yes, perhaps the lure was insufficient but that is out of my control and irrelevant. The bottom line is that none were willing to accept what I had to offer. Certification does not make a good histo tech. Certification is a stamp of validation. It says that someone passed a test so they must be good. There are many very good uncertified people in histology. Certification lost some of its validity when they did away with the practical part. I would prefer to have someone who can actually do the work and not just talk about it. Given my choice, I would love to have all certified techs but I live in the real world and it's not likely to happen in my remaining time. Everyone talks of quality like it comes magically from having a piece of paper. It don't. Quality comes from experience and practical training. And in the long run, that paper has very little to do with it. Let the flamming begin! ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
I agree it's not about which tech is better. I agree there are great OTJ techs. The point of unifying the field is well taken. Let's face it we were never considered as professionals. We were never paid like other lab professionals. Histology is just now coming into its own. Our field is being recognized for the complexity of the procedures and the value of our work. We need people who understand the technical aspects of the job along with the ability to do the job. This to me means a professional. I think getting certification helps our credibility. Finally I think everyone who has been working in the field should have the opportunity to take their registry. Sandra HT (ASCP)QIHC -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Larry Woody Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 1:12 PM To: Tom McNemar; rjbu...@yahoo.com; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley Subject: Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology It's not about if OTJ techs are better or worse than certified techs, it's about unifying the field and certification is one way to do that. As it stands now we are in a divided field of expertise where some places have a total lack of respect for anyone working in histology and other places go for the lowest price. Once you are in histology it's up to you how talented you are going to be but IMO this field needs to be unified for higher wages and more education about the field itself so more people get interested in it. Larry A. Woody Seattle, Wa. From: Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org To: rjbu...@yahoo.com; Larry Woody slappyc...@yahoo.com; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:56:10 AM Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I'm sure that I'm gonna get blasted but.. I'm sorry but I stand by the statement. I have been a certified HT for 30 years now. I will take an uncertified tech who can get a quality slide to the pathologist in a timely fashion over one who can tell me about it but can't do it. We all know that they are out there. Yes, perhaps the lure was insufficient but that is out of my control and irrelevant. The bottom line is that none were willing to accept what I had to offer. Certification does not make a good histo tech. Certification is a stamp of validation. It says that someone passed a test so they must be good. There are many very good uncertified people in histology. Certification lost some of its validity when they did away with the practical part. I would prefer to have someone who can actually do the work and not just talk about it. Given my choice, I would love to have all certified techs but I live in the real world and it's not likely to happen in my remaining time. Everyone talks of quality like it comes magically from having a piece of paper. It don't. Quality comes from experience and practical training. And in the long run, that paper has very little to do with it. Let the flamming begin! Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcne...@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org -Original Message- From: Rene J Buesa [mailto:rjbu...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:12 PM To: Larry Woody; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley; Tom McNemar Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Tom: All you have written is understandable EXCEPT that it doesn't take an advanced degree to do histology, that reflects the old assumption that if you know how to cook or to knit you can do histology. That is an unacceptable position now when patient care should be a major concern. I agree that a lab assistant does not need to be certified as long as the work is limited to assist or do things other than working with patient samples. Perhaps the lure you used was not tasteful enough (not enough money or benefits). HTs occupy the worst paid echelon in the medical lab and will never get of that stratum unless all are certified and those who hire them show the proper respect for their work. René J. --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org wrote: From: Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: Larry Woody slappyc...@yahoo.com, rjbu...@yahoo.com, Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu, Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 11:36 AM Perhaps in a perfect world My world is less than perfect. For our last opening, we spent 10 months trying to find and lure a certified tech to our facility and then gave up and took an MLT. We have four techs and two of us are certified HTs. We recently hired a person off the street and trained them to be a histology assistant. It has
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
FUEL to the FIRE (come on, it's me. Did you expect anything less?) I was told today that the Histology program at the local CC is in jeopardy of closing because the director (who is a MT) isn't supporting the program. The program director has talked to the Dean and a meeting is to take place next month: hopefully with local employers attending to state the point that this program is needed.. San Antonio is in dire need of techs such that, some techs are jumping from job to job for the most money. In my last place of employment, I hired HTs at first, then ran out of techs. Then I hired recent grads with the understanding that they would take the HT. My last hire at the last place was a lab aide, who files slides, coverslipped, etc. Before I left, we had him running special stains, embedding and cutting. We sat with him at the microscope to go over the special stains reactions, the chemicals and dyes that made the colors. He was surpassing some of the more experienced techs that have been working there for a longer period of time. My point is, registered or not, the fact is techs are in short supply, with good techs even fewer. I've seen some registered techs that I won't let touch a pimple on my left buttock, but this guy I was teaching could cut my prostate bxs, that's is how much faith I had in him. There is a wide rip in the PA world between programmed trained and OJT trained such that a member wrote a letter to the newsletter and said he was withdrawing his membership because he felt that since the ASCP took over the PA exam, there are less qualified PAs now because the ASCP made the exam too easy. This question has gone on for years. I went for my certifications because an old supervisor gave me the challenge that I wouldn't pass it, funny, that's what some people said about me when I took my PA exam too. The truth is, most of us are reaching the age where we need good histology. Although I would like it if everyone was certified, but the fact is as long as pathologists are willing to hire unregistered techs, this is a battle that goes on. Oh, by the way, I was discussing this same thing at a lecture one time. In the audience was a histology program director, who at break, went up to the other guy I was lecturing with, that she didn't agree with what I was saying. He told her that what I was saying was the truth( that there are many techs and PAs working who are not certified). She decided to pull herself and her students out of my class. Now, I was not advocating that people not get certified, I was saying that there are many out there who are not. She even went to complain the president, vice-president and the program coordinator about my lecture. My best buddy, Hector, was also there. After she left, the president told Hector to tell me to tone it down some. Hector said, he won't listen to me. The president responded, why not? You're his best friend. Hector replied, because it's Joe. I'm going out for a run now. Joe Nocito, BS, PA, HT (ASCP) QIHC San Antonio, TX -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Morken, Tim Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:57 AM To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Uh oh, here we goagain! It's just demand and economics in most areas. In the San Francisco area good luck finding a certified tech. They can command 70K with minimal experience, which is what Kaiser and the UC medical center are paying. I know one woman who was working for a service lab in the area who wanted to work on her certification but her pathologist refused to sponsor her because he figured if she got it she would leave for a place that would pay her higher salary (seems like that ought to cause to lose a medical license!). Bad move: he lost her anyway. We have found that recent college grads are fully capable of the work (at least in our area, which demands a lot of indepent work and thinking). What is missing with most OJT is the breadth of education you get when you study for the certification. I know plenty of people who cut well, do stains well etc, but are lost outside the specialties of their particular laboratory, and even outside their own little area of their own lab! But, we could also discuss the breadth of knowledge of those lucky enough to be educated in a formal school setting vs OJT and then certified. It goes on and on Tim Morken -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Coakley Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:56 AM To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Any thoughts or experiences with my fellow HT/HTL's(ASCP). What the big advantage do all these facilities think there gaining by going with unregistered
Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
A hospital that relies on uncertified techs to do histology work is motivated by the pursue of costs cuts (you can call it greed!) and shows total disregard for quality of work and patient care. They may end losing all those savings when settling a legal case. René J. --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com Subject: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 9:55 AM Any thoughts or experiences with my fellow HT/HTL's(ASCP). What the big advantage do all these facilities think there gaining by going with unregistered techs, especially when theres always ongoing quality issues when theres so many trained certified HT looking for work? In my area of the country I can't believe how many Hospitals go this way. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Many areas have to go to unregistered techs out of necessity due to the high vacancy rate in our field since the ASCP made changes to the career path for the HT board requirements. Many of these facilities have either formal or informal training and have turned out many very good, high quality techs. Yes, some may be skilled at the art of histology, but lack the understanding that is behind the science. These often can embed, cut and do special stains with superior quality and happy pathologists. I have seen registered techs that have all the intelligence that their sheepskins say, but totally lack the hands on skills needed to produce superior quality material for patient diagnosis. While this is only my opinion, I wish that there was still the route for OJT as long as there is a certified tech in place for training. My two cents worth, Mary Abosso From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu on behalf of Steven Coakley Sent: Wed 2/11/2009 7:55 AM To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Any thoughts or experiences with my fellow HT/HTL's(ASCP). What the big advantage do all these facilities think there gaining by going with unregistered techs, especially when theres always ongoing quality issues when theres so many trained certified HT looking for work? In my area of the country I can't believe how many Hospitals go this way. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
What does quality issues have to do with anything ,Many certifieds have quality issues as well,It's knowledge and skill that matters.You can go on all day with this ,but in the end it's can you get it done,available techs etc.I think it's important to have the best of both worlds. On Wed, 11 Feb 2009, Steven Coakley wrote: Any thoughts or experiences with my fellow HT/HTL's(ASCP). What the big advantage do all these facilities think there gaining by going with unregistered techs, especially when theres always ongoing quality issues when theres so many trained certified HT looking for work? In my area of the country I can't believe how many Hospitals go this way. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Uh oh, here we goagain! It's just demand and economics in most areas. In the San Francisco area good luck finding a certified tech. They can command 70K with minimal experience, which is what Kaiser and the UC medical center are paying. I know one woman who was working for a service lab in the area who wanted to work on her certification but her pathologist refused to sponsor her because he figured if she got it she would leave for a place that would pay her higher salary (seems like that ought to cause to lose a medical license!). Bad move: he lost her anyway. We have found that recent college grads are fully capable of the work (at least in our area, which demands a lot of indepent work and thinking). What is missing with most OJT is the breadth of education you get when you study for the certification. I know plenty of people who cut well, do stains well etc, but are lost outside the specialties of their particular laboratory, and even outside their own little area of their own lab! But, we could also discuss the breadth of knowledge of those lucky enough to be educated in a formal school setting vs OJT and then certified. It goes on and on Tim Morken -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Coakley Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:56 AM To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Any thoughts or experiences with my fellow HT/HTL's(ASCP). What the big advantage do all these facilities think there gaining by going with unregistered techs, especially when theres always ongoing quality issues when theres so many trained certified HT looking for work? In my area of the country I can't believe how many Hospitals go this way. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Tom: All you have written is understandable EXCEPT that it doesn't take an advanced degree to do histology, that reflects the old assumption that if you know how to cook or to knit you can do histology. That is an unacceptable position now when patient care should be a major concern. I agree that a lab assistant does not need to be certified as long as the work is limited to assist or do things other than working with patient samples. Perhaps the lure you used was not tasteful enough (not enough money or benefits). HTs occupy the worst paid echelon in the medical lab and will never get of that stratum unless all are certified and those who hire them show the proper respect for their work. René J. --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org wrote: From: Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: Larry Woody slappyc...@yahoo.com, rjbu...@yahoo.com, Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu, Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 11:36 AM Perhaps in a perfect world My world is less than perfect. For our last opening, we spent 10 months trying to find and lure a certified tech to our facility and then gave up and took an MLT. We have four techs and two of us are certified HTs. We recently hired a person off the street and trained them to be a histology assistant. It has been very beneficial for us. She files slides, covers the late grossing (assists the pathologist), coverslips, etc. It doesn't take an advanced degree to do histology. You gotta do what you gotta do to get the work out. Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcne...@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu]on Behalf Of Larry Woody Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:10 AM To: rjbu...@yahoo.com; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley Subject: Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology This has been an ongoing issue for so many years in histology, I've always wanted to see a mandatory license in the field but that always starts a firestorm of controversy. If you have surgery, you certainly want a board certified surgeon to do it and same with the Pathologist that looks at the slides so wouldn't you want a certified tech doing the lab work as well? Larry A. Woody Seattle, Wa. From: Rene J Buesa rjbu...@yahoo.com To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 7:58:26 AM Subject: Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology A hospital that relies on uncertified techs to do histology work is motivated by the pursue of costs cuts (you can call it greed!) and shows total disregard for quality of work and patient care. They may end losing all those savings when settling a legal case. René J. --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com Subject: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 9:55 AM Any thoughts or experiences with my fellow HT/HTL's(ASCP). What the big advantage do all these facilities think there gaining by going with unregistered techs, especially when theres always ongoing quality issues when theres so many trained certified HT looking for work? In my area of the country I can't believe how many Hospitals go this way. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
I am sorry I seemed to have expanded this discussion. I want to be clear on part of the record. I was OJT trained in the 60's. We had even fewer schools and options then. The person who trained me had been trained by the pathologist and the Ann Preece book in histology. She knew what the pathologists we worked with wanted and saw to it that was what they got everyday. When I worked in other places later and continued my education I did learn more about the chemistry and why it worked or failed. I was in research when I took my HT and was told if I used animal tissue I would fail as no one on the board back then was experienced with it. I did not know if it was true so I quickly found a hospital where I could complete everything on human tissue I processed and stained. The person running that lab required me (thank goodness) to process every piece of tissue and do every stain manually. We did not have automated stainers back then so I learned every step. So for those who think I am picking on them for OJT training it is not that I disapprove. I believe histology is too important not to be considered professional field that requires consistent training and education. Many of us old timers have fought hard for the education clause so we would have people who were licensed and fully trained. I did get my BS and more education so I did get more on my own. Pamela A Marcum University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL) 382 W Street Rd Kennett Square PA 19438 610-925-6278 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Martin, Gary Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:27 PM To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I am one of those unregistered techs. I would respectfully hope that we are not considered the villains here. My situation is; we are a small lab in a rural area that has the need for 1 1/2 Histo Techs. We were having a very difficult time attracting a 1/2 time qualified tech., and had zero backup for our one and only full time qualified tech. I have a good back ground in detail work in the art world and a good amount of experience as a pathology lab assistant. So it was easy for me to transition into the role of unregistered tech, thereby providing back for our over work Histo tech. I have been trained by my Histo tech and have completed the Freida L. Carson self instruction course under her supervision. We are happy with the results and our Pathologist are pleased. At this point (7 years into teching) there are some things that I have been innovative on some things, and our tech prefers me to do other things. I would love to get certified but the changes in OTJ have made that more of a mountain than I can climb at this time. I would like to lend voice to us who are in this situation and say the we take our duties very serious and I really don't look at my job as getting over on rules or quality or providing cheap labor. In our case it has been necessity. Thank you Gary -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Watson, Linda Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:34 AM To: Mary Abosso; Steven Coakley; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I totally agree with Mary. I have often heard that histotechs are a dying breed. That us old timers are not being replaced by the younger generation. If we want to have less uncertified histotechs then lets not make it so difficult for individuals to pursue this wonderful career. I still think it is very important for the exam to remain in place but those individuals out of high school that are maybe not thinking of attending college to obtain a bachelors degree should have the opportunity to become a certified histologist. I know that you can still obtain the HT but not the HTL. Correct me if I am wrong. Linda -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet- boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Mary Abosso Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:19 AM To: Steven Coakley; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Many areas have to go to unregistered techs out of necessity due to the high vacancy rate in our field since the ASCP made changes to the career path for the HT board requirements. Many of these facilities have either formal or informal training and have turned out many very good, high quality techs. Yes, some may be skilled at the art of histology, but lack the understanding that is behind the science. These often can embed, cut and do special stains with superior quality and happy pathologists. I have seen registered techs that have all the intelligence that their sheepskins say
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
I agree with you 100% Tom. No flames here. Hazel Horn Hazel Horn, HT/HTL (ASCP) Supervisor of Histology Arkansas Children's Hospital 1 Children's WaySlot 820 Little Rock, AR 72202 phone 501.364.4240 fax501.364.3155 visit us on the web at:www.archildrens.org -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Tom McNemar Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:56 PM To: rjbu...@yahoo.com; Larry Woody; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I'm sure that I'm gonna get blasted but.. I'm sorry but I stand by the statement. I have been a certified HT for 30 years now. I will take an uncertified tech who can get a quality slide to the pathologist in a timely fashion over one who can tell me about it but can't do it. We all know that they are out there. Yes, perhaps the lure was insufficient but that is out of my control and irrelevant. The bottom line is that none were willing to accept what I had to offer. Certification does not make a good histo tech. Certification is a stamp of validation. It says that someone passed a test so they must be good. There are many very good uncertified people in histology. Certification lost some of its validity when they did away with the practical part. I would prefer to have someone who can actually do the work and not just talk about it. Given my choice, I would love to have all certified techs but I live in the real world and it's not likely to happen in my remaining time. Everyone talks of quality like it comes magically from having a piece of paper. It don't. Quality comes from experience and practical training. And in the long run, that paper has very little to do with it. Let the flamming begin! Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcne...@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org -Original Message- From: Rene J Buesa [mailto:rjbu...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:12 PM To: Larry Woody; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley; Tom McNemar Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Tom: All you have written is understandable EXCEPT that it doesn't take an advanced degree to do histology, that reflects the old assumption that if you know how to cook or to knit you can do histology. That is an unacceptable position now when patient care should be a major concern. I agree that a lab assistant does not need to be certified as long as the work is limited to assist or do things other than working with patient samples. Perhaps the lure you used was not tasteful enough (not enough money or benefits). HTs occupy the worst paid echelon in the medical lab and will never get of that stratum unless all are certified and those who hire them show the proper respect for their work. René J. --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org wrote: From: Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: Larry Woody slappyc...@yahoo.com, rjbu...@yahoo.com, Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu, Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 11:36 AM Perhaps in a perfect world My world is less than perfect. For our last opening, we spent 10 months trying to find and lure a certified tech to our facility and then gave up and took an MLT. We have four techs and two of us are certified HTs. We recently hired a person off the street and trained them to be a histology assistant. It has been very beneficial for us. She files slides, covers the late grossing (assists the pathologist), coverslips, etc. It doesn't take an advanced degree to do histology. You gotta do what you gotta do to get the work out. Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcne...@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu]on Behalf Of Larry Woody Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:10 AM To: rjbu...@yahoo.com; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley Subject: Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology This has been an ongoing issue for so many years in histology, I've always wanted to see a mandatory license in the field but that always starts a firestorm of controversy. If you have surgery, you certainly want a board certified surgeon to do it and same with the Pathologist that looks at the slides so wouldn't you want a certified tech doing the lab work as well? Larry A. Woody Seattle, Wa. From: Rene J Buesa rjbu...@yahoo.com To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com
Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Well Tom they can throw me on the fire with you!!! I agree I came thru an MT program ,OJT for Histology (some MT stuff helped) got my Bachelors later and finally got my MBA- but I have been working a great deal with the new grads from colleges and while they are very nice, I have to say some OJT would have been a great deal more helpful, than being able to get an A on a test! I know generations are different but what are they being told in these colleges??? Where is work ethic, realistic work expectations? We are in healthcare not banking thank goodness! Take me back to the good old days when we were by the docs side and learned everyday. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for listening. Dana Dittus MT/HT MBA Core Lab Administrator UHS LLC In a message dated 2/11/2009 1:56:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tmcne...@lmhealth.org writes: I'm sure that I'm gonna get blasted but.. I'm sorry but I stand by the statement. I have been a certified HT for 30 years now. I will take an uncertified tech who can get a quality slide to the pathologist in a timely fashion over one who can tell me about it but can't do it. We all know that they are out there. Yes, perhaps the lure was insufficient but that is out of my control and irrelevant. The bottom line is that none were willing to accept what I had to offer. Certification does not make a good histo tech. Certification is a stamp of validation. It says that someone passed a test so they must be good. There are many very good uncertified people in histology. Certification lost some of its validity when they did away with the practical part. I would prefer to have someone who can actually do the work and not just talk about it. Given my choice, I would love to have all certified techs but I live in the real world and it's not likely to happen in my remaining time. Everyone talks of quality like it comes magically from having a piece of paper. It don't. Quality comes from experience and practical training. And in the long run, that paper has very little to do with it. Let the flamming begin! Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcne...@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org -Original Message- From: Rene J Buesa [mailto:rjbu...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:12 PM To: Larry Woody; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley; Tom McNemar Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Tom: All you have written is understandable EXCEPT that it doesn't take an advanced degree to do histology, that reflects the old assumption that if you know how to cook or to knit you can do histology. That is an unacceptable position now when patient care should be a major concern. I agree that a lab assistant does not need to be certified as long as the work is limited to assist or do things other than working with patient samples. Perhaps the lure you used was not tasteful enough (not enough money or benefits). HTs occupy the worst paid echelon in the medical lab and will never get of that stratum unless all are certified and those who hire them show the proper respect for their work. René J. --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org wrote: From: Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: Larry Woody slappyc...@yahoo.com, rjbu...@yahoo.com, Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu, Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 11:36 AM Perhaps in a perfect world My world is less than perfect. For our last opening, we spent 10 months trying to find and lure a certified tech to our facility and then gave up and took an MLT. We have four techs and two of us are certified HTs. We recently hired a person off the street and trained them to be a histology assistant. It has been very beneficial for us. She files slides, covers the late grossing (assists the pathologist), coverslips, etc. It doesn't take an advanced degree to do histology. You gotta do what you gotta do to get the work out. Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcne...@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu]on Behalf Of Larry Woody Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:10 AM To: rjbu...@yahoo.com; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley Subject: Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology This has been an ongoing issue for so many years in histology, I've always wanted to see a mandatory license in the field but that always starts a firestorm of controversy. If you have surgery, you certainly want a board certified surgeon to do it and same
Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
It's not about if OTJ techs are better or worse than certified techs, it's about unifying the field and certification is one way to do that. As it stands now we are in a divided field of expertise where some places have a total lack of respect for anyone working in histology and other places go for the lowest price. Once you are in histology it's up to you how talented you are going to be but IMO this field needs to be unified for higher wages and more education about the field itself so more people get interested in it. Larry A. Woody Seattle, Wa. From: Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org To: rjbu...@yahoo.com; Larry Woody slappyc...@yahoo.com; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:56:10 AM Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I'm sure that I'm gonna get blasted but.. I'm sorry but I stand by the statement. I have been a certified HT for 30 years now. I will take an uncertified tech who can get a quality slide to the pathologist in a timely fashion over one who can tell me about it but can't do it. We all know that they are out there. Yes, perhaps the lure was insufficient but that is out of my control and irrelevant. The bottom line is that none were willing to accept what I had to offer. Certification does not make a good histo tech. Certification is a stamp of validation. It says that someone passed a test so they must be good. There are many very good uncertified people in histology. Certification lost some of its validity when they did away with the practical part. I would prefer to have someone who can actually do the work and not just talk about it. Given my choice, I would love to have all certified techs but I live in the real world and it's not likely to happen in my remaining time. Everyone talks of quality like it comes magically from having a piece of paper. It don't. Quality comes from experience and practical training. And in the long run, that paper has very little to do with it. Let the flamming begin! Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcne...@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org -Original Message- From: Rene J Buesa [mailto:rjbu...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:12 PM To: Larry Woody; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley; Tom McNemar Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Tom: All you have written is understandable EXCEPT that it doesn't take an advanced degree to do histology, that reflects the old assumption that if you know how to cook or to knit you can do histology. That is an unacceptable position now when patient care should be a major concern. I agree that a lab assistant does not need to be certified as long as the work is limited to assist or do things other than working with patient samples. Perhaps the lure you used was not tasteful enough (not enough money or benefits). HTs occupy the worst paid echelon in the medical lab and will never get of that stratum unless all are certified and those who hire them show the proper respect for their work. René J. --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org wrote: From: Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: Larry Woody slappyc...@yahoo.com, rjbu...@yahoo.com, Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu, Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 11:36 AM Perhaps in a perfect world My world is less than perfect. For our last opening, we spent 10 months trying to find and lure a certified tech to our facility and then gave up and took an MLT. We have four techs and two of us are certified HTs. We recently hired a person off the street and trained them to be a histology assistant. It has been very beneficial for us. She files slides, covers the late grossing (assists the pathologist), coverslips, etc. It doesn't take an advanced degree to do histology. You gotta do what you gotta do to get the work out. Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcne...@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu]on Behalf Of Larry Woody Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:10 AM To: rjbu...@yahoo.com; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley Subject: Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology This has been an ongoing issue for so many years in histology, I've always wanted to see a mandatory license in the field but that always starts a firestorm of controversy. If you have surgery, you certainly want a board certified surgeon to do it and same with the Pathologist that looks at the slides so wouldn't you want a certified tech doing the lab
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
If a histo tech knows how to do most everything in the clinical lab but is not an MT, should they be allowed to work there? -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of ddittus...@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:03 PM To: tmcne...@lmhealth.org; rjbu...@yahoo.com; slappyc...@yahoo.com; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; sjchta...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Well Tom they can throw me on the fire with you!!! I agree I came thru an MT program ,OJT for Histology (some MT stuff helped) got my Bachelors later and finally got my MBA- but I have been working a great deal with the new grads from colleges and while they are very nice, I have to say some OJT would have been a great deal more helpful, than being able to get an A on a test! I know generations are different but what are they being told in these colleges??? Where is work ethic, realistic work expectations? We are in healthcare not banking thank goodness! Take me back to the good old days when we were by the docs side and learned everyday. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for listening. Dana Dittus MT/HT MBA Core Lab Administrator UHS LLC In a message dated 2/11/2009 1:56:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tmcne...@lmhealth.org writes: I'm sure that I'm gonna get blasted but.. I'm sorry but I stand by the statement. I have been a certified HT for 30 years now. I will take an uncertified tech who can get a quality slide to the pathologist in a timely fashion over one who can tell me about it but can't do it. We all know that they are out there. Yes, perhaps the lure was insufficient but that is out of my control and irrelevant. The bottom line is that none were willing to accept what I had to offer. Certification does not make a good histo tech. Certification is a stamp of validation. It says that someone passed a test so they must be good. There are many very good uncertified people in histology. Certification lost some of its validity when they did away with the practical part. I would prefer to have someone who can actually do the work and not just talk about it. Given my choice, I would love to have all certified techs but I live in the real world and it's not likely to happen in my remaining time. Everyone talks of quality like it comes magically from having a piece of paper. It don't. Quality comes from experience and practical training. And in the long run, that paper has very little to do with it. Let the flamming begin! Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcne...@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org -Original Message- From: Rene J Buesa [mailto:rjbu...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:12 PM To: Larry Woody; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley; Tom McNemar Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Tom: All you have written is understandable EXCEPT that it doesn't take an advanced degree to do histology, that reflects the old assumption that if you know how to cook or to knit you can do histology. That is an unacceptable position now when patient care should be a major concern. I agree that a lab assistant does not need to be certified as long as the work is limited to assist or do things other than working with patient samples. Perhaps the lure you used was not tasteful enough (not enough money or benefits). HTs occupy the worst paid echelon in the medical lab and will never get of that stratum unless all are certified and those who hire them show the proper respect for their work. René J. --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org wrote: From: Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: Larry Woody slappyc...@yahoo.com, rjbu...@yahoo.com, Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu, Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 11:36 AM Perhaps in a perfect world My world is less than perfect. For our last opening, we spent 10 months trying to find and lure a certified tech to our facility and then gave up and took an MLT. We have four techs and two of us are certified HTs. We recently hired a person off the street and trained them to be a histology assistant. It has been very beneficial for us. She files slides, covers the late grossing (assists the pathologist), coverslips, etc. It doesn't take an advanced degree to do histology. You gotta do what you gotta do to get the work out. Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcne...@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Linda, I don't think its the same thing. Lab is so automated these days. I worked in a lab back when we did counts by hand and chemistries by actual chemistry. Today it's all instrumentation. In histology, although automation is coming slowly, the work (at least in the smaller histo labs) is mostly done by hand. The actual funtion of producing a slide is a primarily a talent. A talent born of experience. The vast majority of people with sufficient experience can produce a slide of diagnostic quality. Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcne...@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org -Original Message- From: Blazek, Linda [mailto:lbla...@digestivespecialists.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:16 PM To: 'ddittus...@aol.com'; Tom McNemar; rjbu...@yahoo.com; slappyc...@yahoo.com; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; sjchta...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology If a histo tech knows how to do most everything in the clinical lab but is not an MT, should they be allowed to work there? -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of ddittus...@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:03 PM To: tmcne...@lmhealth.org; rjbu...@yahoo.com; slappyc...@yahoo.com; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; sjchta...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Well Tom they can throw me on the fire with you!!! I agree I came thru an MT program ,OJT for Histology (some MT stuff helped) got my Bachelors later and finally got my MBA- but I have been working a great deal with the new grads from colleges and while they are very nice, I have to say some OJT would have been a great deal more helpful, than being able to get an A on a test! I know generations are different but what are they being told in these colleges??? Where is work ethic, realistic work expectations? We are in healthcare not banking thank goodness! Take me back to the good old days when we were by the docs side and learned everyday. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for listening. Dana Dittus MT/HT MBA Core Lab Administrator UHS LLC In a message dated 2/11/2009 1:56:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tmcne...@lmhealth.org writes: I'm sure that I'm gonna get blasted but.. I'm sorry but I stand by the statement. I have been a certified HT for 30 years now. I will take an uncertified tech who can get a quality slide to the pathologist in a timely fashion over one who can tell me about it but can't do it. We all know that they are out there. Yes, perhaps the lure was insufficient but that is out of my control and irrelevant. The bottom line is that none were willing to accept what I had to offer. Certification does not make a good histo tech. Certification is a stamp of validation. It says that someone passed a test so they must be good. There are many very good uncertified people in histology. Certification lost some of its validity when they did away with the practical part. I would prefer to have someone who can actually do the work and not just talk about it. Given my choice, I would love to have all certified techs but I live in the real world and it's not likely to happen in my remaining time. Everyone talks of quality like it comes magically from having a piece of paper. It don't. Quality comes from experience and practical training. And in the long run, that paper has very little to do with it. Let the flamming begin! Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcne...@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org -Original Message- From: Rene J Buesa [mailto:rjbu...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:12 PM To: Larry Woody; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley; Tom McNemar Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Tom: All you have written is understandable EXCEPT that it doesn't take an advanced degree to do histology, that reflects the old assumption that if you know how to cook or to knit you can do histology. That is an unacceptable position now when patient care should be a major concern. I agree that a lab assistant does not need to be certified as long as the work is limited to assist or do things other than working with patient samples. Perhaps the lure you used was not tasteful enough (not enough money or benefits). HTs occupy the worst paid echelon in the medical lab and will never get of that stratum unless all are certified and those who hire them show the proper respect for their work. René J. --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org wrote: From: Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: Larry Woody slappyc...@yahoo.com, rjbu
Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Ditto On Wed, 11 Feb 2009, ddittus...@aol.com wrote: Well Tom they can throw me on the fire with you!!! I agree I came thru an MT program ,OJT for Histology (some MT stuff helped) got my Bachelors later and finally got my MBA- but I have been working a great deal with the new grads from colleges and while they are very nice, I have to say some OJT would have been a great deal more helpful, than being able to get an A on a test! I know generations are different but what are they being told in these colleges??? Where is work ethic, realistic work expectations? We are in healthcare not banking thank goodness! Take me back to the good old days when we were by the docs side and learned everyday. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for listening. Dana Dittus MT/HT MBA Core Lab Administrator UHS LLC In a message dated 2/11/2009 1:56:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tmcne...@lmhealth.org writes: I'm sure that I'm gonna get blasted but.. I'm sorry but I stand by the statement. I have been a certified HT for 30 years now. I will take an uncertified tech who can get a quality slide to the pathologist in a timely fashion over one who can tell me about it but can't do it. We all know that they are out there. Yes, perhaps the lure was insufficient but that is out of my control and irrelevant. The bottom line is that none were willing to accept what I had to offer. Certification does not make a good histo tech. Certification is a stamp of validation. It says that someone passed a test so they must be good. There are many very good uncertified people in histology. Certification lost some of its validity when they did away with the practical part. I would prefer to have someone who can actually do the work and not just talk about it. Given my choice, I would love to have all certified techs but I live in the real world and it's not likely to happen in my remaining time. Everyone talks of quality like it comes magically from having a piece of paper. It don't. Quality comes from experience and practical training. And in the long run, that paper has very little to do with it. Let the flamming begin! Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcne...@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org -Original Message- From: Rene J Buesa [mailto:rjbu...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:12 PM To: Larry Woody; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley; Tom McNemar Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Tom: All you have written is understandable EXCEPT that it doesn't take an advanced degree to do histology, that reflects the old assumption that if you know how to cook or to knit you can do histology. That is an unacceptable position now when patient care should be a major concern. I agree that a lab assistant does not need to be certified as long as the work is limited to assist or do things other than working with patient samples. Perhaps the lure you used was not tasteful enough (not enough money or benefits). HTs occupy the worst paid echelon in the medical lab and will never get of that stratum unless all are certified and those who hire them show the proper respect for their work. René J. --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org wrote: From: Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: Larry Woody slappyc...@yahoo.com, rjbu...@yahoo.com, Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu, Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 11:36 AM Perhaps in a perfect world My world is less than perfect. For our last opening, we spent 10 months trying to find and lure a certified tech to our facility and then gave up and took an MLT. We have four techs and two of us are certified HTs. We recently hired a person off the street and trained them to be a histology assistant. It has been very beneficial for us. She files slides, covers the late grossing (assists the pathologist), coverslips, etc. It doesn't take an advanced degree to do histology. You gotta do what you gotta do to get the work out. Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcne...@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu]on Behalf Of Larry Woody Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:10 AM To: rjbu...@yahoo.com; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley Subject: Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology This has been an ongoing issue for so many years in histology, I've always wanted to see a mandatory license in the field but that always starts a firestorm of controversy. If you have surgery, you certainly want a board certified surgeon to do it and same with the Pathologist
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Got your back on tis one, Tom. I came up through MT then OJT histo. Yes, the education helped. I have since trained a number of techs who have gone on to complete their registry. Most did well for themselves. Makes me proud. I admit it was always easier to train a person with an AS or BS. And admittedly, they were better techs for it. They also commanded better money. Respect comes from the performance, not the degree, registry or lack there-of. Yes, I would rather have registered techs, prefferably with degrees. I agree that the only way we will be better paid across the board is to have demands of registry and education. I'm in agreement with what the ASCP did in tightening up its requirements - but I was a slow convert. All that was said so that I might say this: I have worked with stellar OJTs that for one reason or another, never challenged the registry. Knowing where to find it in the book is most usually good enough. The reality is, however, that we are going to continue to have this debate for a lng, looong time. Smile, take another sip of tea and.darn there goes my timer! Good techs not always a registry make -Yoda (or some guy who looked like him)(well he was green-ish, anyway) William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC Lead Histologist Good Samaritan Hospital 10 East 31st Street Kearney, NE 68847 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Tom McNemar Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:56 PM To: rjbu...@yahoo.com; Larry Woody; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I'm sure that I'm gonna get blasted but.. I'm sorry but I stand by the statement. I have been a certified HT for 30 years now. I will take an uncertified tech who can get a quality slide to the pathologist in a timely fashion over one who can tell me about it but can't do it. We all know that they are out there. Yes, perhaps the lure was insufficient but that is out of my control and irrelevant. The bottom line is that none were willing to accept what I had to offer. Certification does not make a good histo tech. Certification is a stamp of validation. It says that someone passed a test so they must be good. There are many very good uncertified people in histology. Certification lost some of its validity when they did away with the practical part. I would prefer to have someone who can actually do the work and not just talk about it. Given my choice, I would love to have all certified techs but I live in the real world and it's not likely to happen in my remaining time. Everyone talks of quality like it comes magically from having a piece of paper. It don't. Quality comes from experience and practical training. And in the long run, that paper has very little to do with it. Let the flamming begin! Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcne...@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org -Original Message- From: Rene J Buesa [mailto:rjbu...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:12 PM To: Larry Woody; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley; Tom McNemar Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Tom: All you have written is understandable EXCEPT that it doesn't take an advanced degree to do histology, that reflects the old assumption that if you know how to cook or to knit you can do histology. That is an unacceptable position now when patient care should be a major concern. I agree that a lab assistant does not need to be certified as long as the work is limited to assist or do things other than working with patient samples. Perhaps the lure you used was not tasteful enough (not enough money or benefits). HTs occupy the worst paid echelon in the medical lab and will never get of that stratum unless all are certified and those who hire them show the proper respect for their work. René J. --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org wrote: From: Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: Larry Woody slappyc...@yahoo.com, rjbu...@yahoo.com, Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu, Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 11:36 AM Perhaps in a perfect world My world is less than perfect. For our last opening, we spent 10 months trying to find and lure a certified tech to our facility and then gave up and took an MLT. We have four techs and two of us are certified HTs. We recently hired a person off the street and trained them to be a histology assistant. It has been very beneficial for us. She files slides, covers the late grossing (assists the pathologist), coverslips, etc. It doesn't take an advanced degree to do histology. You gotta do what you gotta do to get the work
Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Thank you for an interesting conversation on this matter. I am sorry, I am sure this issue has come up before, but I am new to the list and therefore this is the first time I have seen it. I used to run a clinical lab in the UK 5 years ago (before moving to San Francisco for a research career) and the National Health service was going the way of unskilled workers too, although the qualified ones didn't get nearly as much as they do in the USA, so really, everyone looses! Question - as a histologist with over 10 years experience who still has her UK qualifications what do I have to do to be qualified in the USA?? Thanks Caroline Caroline Miller Co-Manager J David Gladstone Institutes Histology and Microscopy Core 1650 Owens St San Francisco CA 94158 Tel: 415 734 2566 Fax: 415 355 0824 http://www.gladstone.ucsf.edu/gladstone/site/histology/ cmil...@gladstone.ucsf.edu On Feb 11, 2009, at 9:12 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote: Tom: All you have written is understandable EXCEPT that it doesn't take an advanced degree to do histology, that reflects the old assumption that if you know how to cook or to knit you can do histology. That is an unacceptable position now when patient care should be a major concern. I agree that a lab assistant does not need to be certified as long as the work is limited to assist or do things other than working with patient samples. Perhaps the lure you used was not tasteful enough (not enough money or benefits). HTs occupy the worst paid echelon in the medical lab and will never get of that stratum unless all are certified and those who hire them show the proper respect for their work. René J. --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org wrote: From: Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: Larry Woody slappyc...@yahoo.com, rjbu...@yahoo.com, Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu , Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 11:36 AM Perhaps in a perfect world My world is less than perfect. For our last opening, we spent 10 months trying to find and lure a certified tech to our facility and then gave up and took an MLT. We have four techs and two of us are certified HTs. We recently hired a person off the street and trained them to be a histology assistant. It has been very beneficial for us. She files slides, covers the late grossing (assists the pathologist), coverslips, etc. It doesn't take an advanced degree to do histology. You gotta do what you gotta do to get the work out. Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP) Histology Co-ordinator Licking Memorial Health Systems (740) 348-4163 (740) 348-4166 tmcne...@lmhealth.org www.LMHealth.org -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu]on Behalf Of Larry Woody Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:10 AM To: rjbu...@yahoo.com; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley Subject: Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology This has been an ongoing issue for so many years in histology, I've always wanted to see a mandatory license in the field but that always starts a firestorm of controversy. If you have surgery, you certainly want a board certified surgeon to do it and same with the Pathologist that looks at the slides so wouldn't you want a certified tech doing the lab work as well? Larry A. Woody Seattle, Wa. From: Rene J Buesa rjbu...@yahoo.com To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 7:58:26 AM Subject: Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology A hospital that relies on uncertified techs to do histology work is motivated by the pursue of costs cuts (you can call it greed!) and shows total disregard for quality of work and patient care. They may end losing all those savings when settling a legal case. René J. --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com Subject: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 9:55 AM Any thoughts or experiences with my fellow HT/HTL's(ASCP). What the big advantage do all these facilities think there gaining by going with unregistered techs, especially when theres always ongoing quality issues when theres so many trained certified HT looking for work? In my area of the country I can't believe how many Hospitals go this way. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Begging for a skilled, certified HT (was Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Where I come from, trained certified histotechs are rare as hen's teeth, and the work is looking for them. We employ OJT's because we have no alternatives. I wish our lab was 100% ASCP certified, program trained HT's. In all seriousness, my group could use some trained certified histotechs. If there are any trained certified histotechs out there who would seriously entertain relocating to West Texas for long term employment, PLEASE email me your resume and salary requirements. If you have any questions before you send your resume, don't hesitate to email me. Daniel Schneider On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 8:55 AM, Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com wrote: Any thoughts or experiences with my fellow HT/HTL's(ASCP). What the big advantage do all these facilities think there gaining by going with unregistered techs, especially when theres always ongoing quality issues *when theres so many trained certified HT looking for work?* In my area of the country I can't believe how many Hospitals go this way. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
No, it's called we have a NURSE as a histology lab manager (outpatient clinic). She doesn't know what should and should not be done. We are even grossing the dermatology specimens (without extra pay, mind you). Some of us know what the quality level should be and try to exceed that level on a daily basis. Claire From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu on behalf of Rene J Buesa Sent: Wed 2/11/2009 9:58 AM To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; Steven Coakley Subject: Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology A hospital that relies on uncertified techs to do histology work is motivated by the pursue of costs cuts (you can call it greed!) and shows total disregard for quality of work and patient care. They may end losing all those savings when settling a legal case. René J. --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Steven Coakley sjchta...@yahoo.com wrote: ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
[Fwd: Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology]
I forgot to send this to the group. Original Message Subject:Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:07:41 -0800 From: Victor Tobias vic...@pathology.washington.edu To: Podawiltz, Thomas tpodawi...@lrgh.org References: cb0.39876c03.36c47...@aol.com 5a2bd13465e061429d6455c8d6b40e39086ead7...@ibmb7exchange.digestivespecialists.com, 851617.95653...@web53601.mail.re2.yahoo.com 38667e7fb77ecd4e91bfaeb8d98638631d32f1f...@lrghexvs1.practice.lrgh.org Thomas, I first heard about Histology while going to school as a Nursing major. I worked at the county hospital and did Phlebotomy and covered morgue duties on the weekend. I would deliver stuff to Histology, but didn't know exactly what they did. One day the Supervisor(MT) over Histology asked me if I would be interested in learning to become a Tech. He explained about getting certified and where it could lead. I got my certification through OJT in 1979. While at the county hospital I learned plastics both GMA and Epon. I would assist the EM tech and process, embed and thick section in their absence. The opportunities were there for the taking. Some of the senior techs just wanted to put in their time and go home. I personally enjoyed the challenges. At the time I had no degree, but did get my AS in 1981. I have changed jobs over the years, but each one was a career move up. Without certification, I don't believe I could ever have gotten into management. Now I use my Histology background to help fine tune our LIS. It is a lot easier for me to communicate with the staff then a computer geek. I know the techs here got a big raise a couple of years ago after they joined the Union. Not everyone was for it, but you go with the majority. Victor Victor Tobias Clinical Applications Analyst University of Washington Medical Center Dept of Pathology Room BB220 1959 NE Pacific Seattle, WA 98195 vic...@pathology.washington.edu 206-598-2792 206-598-7659 Fax = Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be contained in this message. This information is meant only for the use of the intended recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or if the message has been addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute, disseminate or otherwise use this transmission. Instead, please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then destroy all copies of the message and any attachments. Podawiltz, Thomas wrote: Question for everyone. When you were in High school, college or in the military had you ever heard of Histology? How did you find out? One of our problems is no press coverage. I am a Navy trained MLT, that 3 months after graduating gave up my position in Hematology to so my wife could have it and keep her out of blood bank. I met the Chief that ran Histology and thought I would give it a try. Everyone of us in that lab in Portsmouth, VA fell were MLT's that fell in love with Histology and all were OJTs, in fact the last year that I was the assistant leading Petty Officer it was may job to train new people. What I tried to teach was how to get your knowledge to come not from you mouth but your finger tips. I would rather have a tech that knows how to embed properly, cut a complete section without cutting through the block, what a good stain looks like and above all how to trouble shoot. I never needed or wanted the know-it-all that could tell me the molecular structure of xylene, but could not grasp the concept of setting up a gross run. My point? We as Supervisor's are the mentors, it is are job to teach our techs on how we need the work performed, to me working on your certification is showing that you are committed to your profession, not all people are good at taking a test and passing the test just meant you were really good that day. Would I take an un-certified tech over a certified tech? That would depend on their attitude and how well they perform on my tests. Linda: one day I started an argument in the clinical lab at when I said Histology is an art, it is only as good as the person performing, anyone can ready a manual and run a chemistry analyzer. I'd like to say that it went over well, but I can't Tom Podawiltz, HT (ASCP) Histology Section Head/Laboratory Safety Officer LRGHealthcare 603-524-3211 ext: 3220 From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Larry Woody [slappyc...@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:14 PM To: Blazek, Linda; ddittus...@aol.com; tmcne...@lmhealth.org; rjbu...@yahoo.com; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu; sjchta...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Good one Linda! You won't get many MTs to agree with that. Larry A. Woody Seattle, Wa
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Dear Ms.Marcum, Congratulations to you for your accomplishments, and they are many. And, to everyone else in Histoland that has grown with OJTafter all it's experience on the job that provides the opportunity to learn. Certification is a method of finding the finish line of the path through any discipline. In fact it is not the end but rather the beginning ! My own experience with Histotechnology is OJT.in the classroom, in the garage, in the basement shopwherever I have been given the opportunity to make mistakes and benefit from someone who would show approval or nudge me in the right direction. Today, as we speak , I continue to try and find a better path, a better method, a better solution to one of the problems of histotechnology. The HistoNet is a wonderful forum of learning. This is our OJL blog and I appreciate the candor of all participants. We have a common goalgood workfor the profession, and each day another OJT opportunity. Regards, J.B.McCormick,M.D. CSO Leica-biosystems, St. Louis, Mo -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Pamela Marcum Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:16 PM To: 'Martin, Gary'; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I am sorry I seemed to have expanded this discussion. I want to be clear on part of the record. I was OJT trained in the 60's. We had even fewer schools and options then. The person who trained me had been trained by the pathologist and the Ann Preece book in histology. She knew what the pathologists we worked with wanted and saw to it that was what they got everyday. When I worked in other places later and continued my education I did learn more about the chemistry and why it worked or failed. I was in research when I took my HT and was told if I used animal tissue I would fail as no one on the board back then was experienced with it. I did not know if it was true so I quickly found a hospital where I could complete everything on human tissue I processed and stained. The person running that lab required me (thank goodness) to process every piece of tissue and do every stain manually. We did not have automated stainers back then so I learned every step. So for those who think I am picking on them for OJT training it is not that I disapprove. I believe histology is too important not to be considered professional field that requires consistent training and education. Many of us old timers have fought hard for the education clause so we would have people who were licensed and fully trained. I did get my BS and more education so I did get more on my own. Pamela A Marcum University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL) 382 W Street Rd Kennett Square PA 19438 610-925-6278 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Martin, Gary Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:27 PM To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I am one of those unregistered techs. I would respectfully hope that we are not considered the villains here. My situation is; we are a small lab in a rural area that has the need for 1 1/2 Histo Techs. We were having a very difficult time attracting a 1/2 time qualified tech., and had zero backup for our one and only full time qualified tech. I have a good back ground in detail work in the art world and a good amount of experience as a pathology lab assistant. So it was easy for me to transition into the role of unregistered tech, thereby providing back for our over work Histo tech. I have been trained by my Histo tech and have completed the Freida L. Carson self instruction course under her supervision. We are happy with the results and our Pathologist are pleased. At this point (7 years into teching) there are some things that I have been innovative on some things, and our tech prefers me to do other things. I would love to get certified but the changes in OTJ have made that more of a mountain than I can climb at this time. I would like to lend voice to us who are in this situation and say the we take our duties very serious and I really don't look at my job as getting over on rules or quality or providing cheap labor. In our case it has been necessity. Thank you Gary -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Watson, Linda Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:34 AM To: Mary Abosso; Steven Coakley; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I totally agree with Mary. I have often heard that histotechs are a dying breed. That us old timers are not being replaced by the younger generation. If we want
RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology
Bravo!!! -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of McCormick, James Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:31 PM To: Pamela Marcum; 'Martin,Gary'; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology Dear Ms.Marcum, Congratulations to you for your accomplishments, and they are many. And, to everyone else in Histoland that has grown with OJTafter all it's experience on the job that provides the opportunity to learn. Certification is a method of finding the finish line of the path through any discipline. In fact it is not the end but rather the beginning ! My own experience with Histotechnology is OJT.in the classroom, in the garage, in the basement shopwherever I have been given the opportunity to make mistakes and benefit from someone who would show approval or nudge me in the right direction. Today, as we speak , I continue to try and find a better path, a better method, a better solution to one of the problems of histotechnology. The HistoNet is a wonderful forum of learning. This is our OJL blog and I appreciate the candor of all participants. We have a common goalgood workfor the profession, and each day another OJT opportunity. Regards, J.B.McCormick,M.D. CSO Leica-biosystems, St. Louis, Mo -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Pamela Marcum Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:16 PM To: 'Martin, Gary'; Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I am sorry I seemed to have expanded this discussion. I want to be clear on part of the record. I was OJT trained in the 60's. We had even fewer schools and options then. The person who trained me had been trained by the pathologist and the Ann Preece book in histology. She knew what the pathologists we worked with wanted and saw to it that was what they got everyday. When I worked in other places later and continued my education I did learn more about the chemistry and why it worked or failed. I was in research when I took my HT and was told if I used animal tissue I would fail as no one on the board back then was experienced with it. I did not know if it was true so I quickly found a hospital where I could complete everything on human tissue I processed and stained. The person running that lab required me (thank goodness) to process every piece of tissue and do every stain manually. We did not have automated stainers back then so I learned every step. So for those who think I am picking on them for OJT training it is not that I disapprove. I believe histology is too important not to be considered professional field that requires consistent training and education. Many of us old timers have fought hard for the education clause so we would have people who were licensed and fully trained. I did get my BS and more education so I did get more on my own. Pamela A Marcum University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine Comparative Orthopedic Laboratory (CORL) 382 W Street Rd Kennett Square PA 19438 610-925-6278 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Martin, Gary Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:27 PM To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] uncertified techs in Histology I am one of those unregistered techs. I would respectfully hope that we are not considered the villains here. My situation is; we are a small lab in a rural area that has the need for 1 1/2 Histo Techs. We were having a very difficult time attracting a 1/2 time qualified tech., and had zero backup for our one and only full time qualified tech. I have a good back ground in detail work in the art world and a good amount of experience as a pathology lab assistant. So it was easy for me to transition into the role of unregistered tech, thereby providing back for our over work Histo tech. I have been trained by my Histo tech and have completed the Freida L. Carson self instruction course under her supervision. We are happy with the results and our Pathologist are pleased. At this point (7 years into teching) there are some things that I have been innovative on some things, and our tech prefers me to do other things. I would love to get certified but the changes in OTJ have made that more of a mountain than I can climb at this time. I would like to lend voice to us who are in this situation and say the we take our duties very serious and I really don't look at my job as getting over on rules or quality or providing cheap labor. In our case it has been necessity. Thank you Gary -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Watson, Linda Sent
