Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server?
Whoa DT, don't be that angry, I didn't intend to flame and I did not call you a noob. "Newbie" is my nickname (as you can probably see in From field of this e-mail) and it's a long story how I got it. Excuse me if I made you think that I call you a noob, yet again, this was not my intention. Coming back to the topic, please take your time to read http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking - it's all there, clear and simple, describing how networking works in Source, how lag compensation is implemented, etc. I just don't see the point in copy-pasting the whole article here. Cheers, Newbie ( <- that's my name, not an attempt to insult you) - Original Message - From: "DT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 3:01 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server? Well I've only been playing since '99 with beta .9. I guess that is why your calling me newbie? Because I've only seen it happen a million times. I say it does and it is a matter of common sense. You have the server (1 computer) that is interacting with let's say 30 clients. So 29 of those are running at a ping rate of under 50 and 1 at 300. Your telling me that when I hit the 300 ping guy with 3 hs in a row that he's 300 ping has registered my hits? Or that his 1 hs on me 300 ms ago would not affect the other 4 people that are shooting at him at the same time? Like in a room with 6 people all shooting at each other. The server has to register all hits. Since his are registering 6 times later than the rest of ours, the server has to "lag" to update "all" of the information. I tell you what REAL NOOB, you show me how it's possible NOT to lag with the situation that I just explained? Oh! and the 56 k'ers can go to a server where there are other 56 K'ers just like I did when I was on modem. Why am I and the other 28 guys who have broadband penalized because 1 Austrian guy wants to play with us instead of his own kind? I am eagerly anticipating your reply so we can see who the real NOOB is. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.4/332 - Release Date: 5/4/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] tv_record command inconvenience
Along with EP1 is supposed to be a whole new SourceTV system. (let's not talk about anything until then, because it's just b0rked) Roman Hatsiev wrote: This post is mostly addressed to Valve gurus :) Here is minor issue with tv_record which bothers me a lot - it does not add date-time-map info to demo name passed to it as a parameter in the way HLTV record command does. Thus I cannot use tv_record in script without risk of overwriting old demo recorded using the same script. It would be very nice if you could add this little bit of functionality to tv_record command as soon as have time to deal with SourceTV code base ;) Kind regards. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server?
The server does not wait. This is why higher lag players being to jump around. There's a lag compensation part to it that attempts to smooth out movement and shots, but eventually it begins to not work due to insufficient information from the client with high ping. Do you honestly beieve the server packet handling thread(or however the internal architecture is) just sits there and waits for one client for 500ms? -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds To clarify also, my definition of lag in this e-mail is not only when you get yank from where you are to where you were but also, when your shooting and none of your bullets are registering. BTW, like what happened to me last night at a server with 36 people. All were broadband and no ping was over 80. I guy came in at 300 but jumped to 600 then to 800. Not only were we stopped in our place but then after 5 seconds were somewhere else then choppy back and forth till the 600-800 ping went back to 300. We played with this lag as the modem guy kept spiking until HE voluntarily left stating "I'm sorry guys to mess up your game. I'm having problems". He left and it went back to normal immediately. I would suggest some of you to play at a server with ALL low-pingers and watch when a high pinger comes in. As clients we do not complain about the lag all the time, even we it happens regularly. Complaints usually only happen after constantly laggy for several minutes. Test it yourself on the client side -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.4/332 - Release Date: 5/4/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server?
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] drag this into a back alley or something, but keep this nonsense off the mailing list. On 5/4/06, DT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Nashalife | Newbie wrote: > > DT, my friend, you are wrong twice in your messages. > > First, the server draws the frame based on information it has and > doesn't > > really care about you ping at that time. The information about > > player's ping > > is used to calculate hit registration but it has nothing to do with > > lag. If > > you want details, some very comprehensive researches about it > > available at > > Valve Dev community wiki and in Steampowered forums. High ping players > do > > not cause lag and there's no way thet actualy can. > > > > Second, you seem to have forgot that not everyone lives in US, UK or > > other > > location with broadly available cheap DSL lines. You might be > > surprised to > > know that there are places where DSL would cost you about 1000 USD/month > > (that one thousand, not typo) and there are other places, where DSL is > > not > > an option at all and dial-up is the only way to get into internet. > > > > Cheers, > > Newbie > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "DT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 5:24 PM > > Subject: Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server? > > > > > >> Brian M Frain (eternal) wrote: > >>> -- > >>> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > >>> I play on dial-up all the time, no lag caused by me being there. > >>> Someone > >>> is > >>> feeding you a line. Now I will say that people who have serious lag do > >>> cause > >>> issues. They hop all over and are almost impossible to hit but that is > >>> someone with a +500 ping. I get around 2-300 and when I am lucky it > >>> is in > >>> the 100's. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 5/3/06, L.o.D. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> > -- > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > I recently was in a tfc server, not same game but same engine, and > there > was > a player with a constant 3000+ ping & the server never lagged once. > I believe that to be a farce that laggers lag a server. > > ---Original Message--- > > From: Steve Dawson > Date: 05/03/06 18:27:43 > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server? > > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Hi, do hi pinging players lag a cs 1.6 server. It would make sense > to > me. > This is what i heard: > Laggers DO Lag the Server: > Because of the way hlds deals with lag compensation, players that are > lagging on the server actually really do lag the entire server. > This is > because if the server has to wait for data from all players on the > server > before it can calculate each frame. So if everyone on the server has > under > 50 ping except 1 person with 200 ping, the server has to wait an > extra > 150 > ms per frame it calculates. This is why I highly reccomend a high > ping > kicker set to kick anybody with over 100 ping. > > Thanks > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > __ NOD32 1.1518 (20060503) Information __ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > -- > [ 04.jpg of type image/jpeg deleted ] > -- > [ 04_footer.gif of type image/gif deleted ] > -- > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > >>> -- > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> I'm sorry that you cannot afford 12.99 to 17.99 a month for DSL. I bet > >> you use dial-up because of that reason only. You are wrong when you > say > >> "you don't cause lag" you do. I have used dial-up, and every time I > did > >> I was told that I lagged the server. I have DSL now. I see it all the > >> time when the speeds are good because everyone has Broadband and one > guy > >> who is too cheap to buy broadband, comes in with 300 ping and lags the > >> whole thing. We have been playing without lag for an hour, all of a > >> sudden huge lag, over and over and over. A guy came on with 250 ping. > >> Once he leaves it's back to perfect for another hour till the next > cheap > >> skate comes in. > >> > >> One person with 200-300 ping
Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server?
Nashalife | Newbie wrote: DT, my friend, you are wrong twice in your messages. First, the server draws the frame based on information it has and doesn't really care about you ping at that time. The information about player's ping is used to calculate hit registration but it has nothing to do with lag. If you want details, some very comprehensive researches about it available at Valve Dev community wiki and in Steampowered forums. High ping players do not cause lag and there's no way thet actualy can. Second, you seem to have forgot that not everyone lives in US, UK or other location with broadly available cheap DSL lines. You might be surprised to know that there are places where DSL would cost you about 1000 USD/month (that one thousand, not typo) and there are other places, where DSL is not an option at all and dial-up is the only way to get into internet. Cheers, Newbie - Original Message - From: "DT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server? Brian M Frain (eternal) wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I play on dial-up all the time, no lag caused by me being there. Someone is feeding you a line. Now I will say that people who have serious lag do cause issues. They hop all over and are almost impossible to hit but that is someone with a +500 ping. I get around 2-300 and when I am lucky it is in the 100's. On 5/3/06, L.o.D. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -- -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I recently was in a tfc server, not same game but same engine, and there was a player with a constant 3000+ ping & the server never lagged once. I believe that to be a farce that laggers lag a server. ---Original Message--- From: Steve Dawson Date: 05/03/06 18:27:43 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server? -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi, do hi pinging players lag a cs 1.6 server. It would make sense to me. This is what i heard: Laggers DO Lag the Server: Because of the way hlds deals with lag compensation, players that are lagging on the server actually really do lag the entire server. This is because if the server has to wait for data from all players on the server before it can calculate each frame. So if everyone on the server has under 50 ping except 1 person with 200 ping, the server has to wait an extra 150 ms per frame it calculates. This is why I highly reccomend a high ping kicker set to kick anybody with over 100 ping. Thanks -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds __ NOD32 1.1518 (20060503) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- [ 04.jpg of type image/jpeg deleted ] -- [ 04_footer.gif of type image/gif deleted ] -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds I'm sorry that you cannot afford 12.99 to 17.99 a month for DSL. I bet you use dial-up because of that reason only. You are wrong when you say "you don't cause lag" you do. I have used dial-up, and every time I did I was told that I lagged the server. I have DSL now. I see it all the time when the speeds are good because everyone has Broadband and one guy who is too cheap to buy broadband, comes in with 300 ping and lags the whole thing. We have been playing without lag for an hour, all of a sudden huge lag, over and over and over. A guy came on with 250 ping. Once he leaves it's back to perfect for another hour till the next cheap skate comes in. One person with 200-300 ping does wreak the fun of the other 30 players because he is too cheap. If it were reversed and I was doing that to you? Or something similar at your work or home I'm sure you would be one of those cursing too. Why is it fair that because you don't have dsl we all have to suffer? -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.2/330 - Release Date: 5/3/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds Well I've only been playing since '99 with beta .9. I guess that is why your calling me newbie? Because I've only seen it happen a
[hlds] tv_record command inconvenience
This post is mostly addressed to Valve gurus :) Here is minor issue with tv_record which bothers me a lot - it does not add date-time-map info to demo name passed to it as a parameter in the way HLTV record command does. Thus I cannot use tv_record in script without risk of overwriting old demo recorded using the same script. It would be very nice if you could add this little bit of functionality to tv_record command as soon as have time to deal with SourceTV code base ;) Kind regards. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel
GamePanel is an abandoned product in favor of making it into a commercial product. And I'll still say that most real GSPs can make a better product. Of course I'm also biased as this is the part of my job that involves our gaming business. (And architectural game server type issues like server loading and what not.) Chris Bass wrote: gamepanel is still available. TCadmin is doing quite well at least last time I talked one of the guys who owns it. It's better then 99.9% of GSPs have time or manpower to develop. Stuart Stegall wrote: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] GamePanel became The Gamehosting Control Panel, ie TCA. http://www.tcadmin.com/ It's a commercial product. Basically they are trying to sell it to GSPs who for the most part develop their own. To be honest this is most of what seperates GSPs (also how they load their servers and what kind of machines they lease/buy) DLinkOZ wrote: http://www.gamepanel.org/site/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nashalife | Newbie Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 5:42 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel Just an addition: google for rcon.class.php, this might help. Also, there's a hack for Psychostats made by Quark and available at http://psmod.net that has this functionality built in so you can condier using it right away. Newbie - Original Message - From: "Nashalife | Newbie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel You could create a php script to send rcon commands to your server which makes it pretty much an admin panel [SNIP] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] OT: Maps for HL1DM:SOURCE
I see a number of problems with it just due to it being so new: 1. the player animations are a bit wacky (everyone looks like they are running around looking at the ground), 2. Animations in the water appear to be too low, even going into the ground) 3. the speed is a little too fast for player motion (compared to HLDM) 4. hitbox registration is off 5. weapon response can be odd at times, sometimes slow, sometimes things happen with no animation at all. 6. weapon damage is quite different frmo HLDM - some more tweaking needed there. 7. deployed satchels don't appear to be destroyed when the player dies, on several servers I visited there were hundreds of satchels all over the place 8. some weapon entities appear to be in the ground (at least on bounce) 9. several of the maps have fog controllers of some kind running, quite different from HLDM (makes it hard to see over a distance) 10. on crossfire, the big guns were totally wacked out doing some sort of funky chicken dance. None of the servers I visited crashed and I was on for a few hours with lots of players ... when I finally quit, I was twitching due to the unusually fast player motions though (and I play HLDM normally!). I was able to start a server ok, I only let it run for a bit though. From what I can see in HLDM right now based on my server stats, there are about 500 die-hard players and about 3000 occasional players. HLDM is very solid, very accurate and there are more then 2500 maps and about 2200 player models to choose from. There are not many HLDM servers though (averages about 250 but the count has been slowly dropping) and way too many of them have nothing but bots on ... not much fun to play. Although HLDM:S is much better looking, it has months of work ahead of it to get it tuned up and debugged. It will also take some time for good maps to appear ... personally, I can only take so much of the stock maps (even if they do look better). I suspect folks who only get EP1 (and probably have HL2) will be happy playing HLDM:S or HL2DM but most of the HLDM die-hards would much rather play HLDM and have the predictable play and their custom map assortment for now. Players with only HL2 have been playing HL2DM quite a bit (compared to HLDM), I see about 1500 regular players perhaps 20,000 casual players and there are typically 700 or more servers up. I've had more then 20,000 players download dm_spookface now from just my 4-player server since it was released ~10 months ago. If I can find an HL1MP.FGD I'll convert a couple of my maps over so at least there will be a little variety to start with ... qUiCkSiLvEr - Original Message - From: ooks To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] OT: Maps for HL1DM:SOURCE I played a bit last night. I found the client to be fast, smooth, and stable. Very very nice looking, Crossfire was awesome! OMG, even the windows had broken glass shards sticking out of the frame. But the server kept crashing. I'll try to fire up a server this weekend and see how it works. I'm guessing all the old mods will need to be redone from scratch? Is this finally the end of OP4? Remember who told you first. Non source multiplayer games will be phased out, and eventually Valve will shut off the master servers, just as they shut down WON. Source is the future. OTOH, who will play this? How many will stay with HL1DM (not that there are that many people playing anymore anyhow). This looks very nice, but I'm betting it will never become very popular. Few people play HL1 DM anymore. I hope I'm wrong, but my pessimistic side is winning out right now. Where is HL1Dm:Source going to go? Where will the players come from? What is Valve going to do to get people to play Source mods? Besides Counter-Shite, that is? - Original Message - From: "Skul`Hamr" To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 10:10 AM Subject: RE: [hlds] OT: Maps for HL1DM:SOURCE I downloaded the HL2E1 "pre" files last night and along with it came Half-Life Deathmatch: Source. It seemed pretty buggy to me. It took several tries of loading to get it up without fragging the video. Once it was up, it straightened out and looked great, but when I shut it down, it hung and I had to Cntl-alt-del to get it down all the way. Does that every time on my setup. I tried to run a listen server and everything worked great except that we started getting lag when only two or three people were playing on it. Dunno what that's about. Anyhow, it's another nice gimme from Valve and when they get the bugs out I'm guessing it will be popular. I don't figure they intend to do away with Deathmatch Classic. Remember, it's a salute to the people at id software. -Skul`Hamr ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel
gamepanel is still available. TCadmin is doing quite well at least last time I talked one of the guys who owns it. It's better then 99.9% of GSPs have time or manpower to develop. Stuart Stegall wrote: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] GamePanel became The Gamehosting Control Panel, ie TCA. http://www.tcadmin.com/ It's a commercial product. Basically they are trying to sell it to GSPs who for the most part develop their own. To be honest this is most of what seperates GSPs (also how they load their servers and what kind of machines they lease/buy) DLinkOZ wrote: http://www.gamepanel.org/site/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nashalife | Newbie Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 5:42 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel Just an addition: google for rcon.class.php, this might help. Also, there's a hack for Psychostats made by Quark and available at http://psmod.net that has this functionality built in so you can condier using it right away. Newbie - Original Message - From: "Nashalife | Newbie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel You could create a php script to send rcon commands to your server which makes it pretty much an admin panel Newbie - Original Message - From: "Groove" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 1:44 PM Subject: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel Hi, is there any web based admin panel for windows servers ? And if yes, could you tell me the name please :D Thx in advance ! ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] OT: Maps for HL1DM:SOURCE
Eventually they will play hl2dm. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I played a bit last night. I found the client to be fast, smooth, and stable. Very very nice looking, Crossfire was awesome! OMG, even the windows had broken glass shards sticking out of the frame. But the server kept crashing. I'll try to fire up a server this weekend and see how it works. I'm guessing all the old mods will need to be redone from scratch? Is this finally the end of OP4? Remember who told you first. Non source multiplayer games will be phased out, and eventually Valve will shut off the master servers, just as they shut down WON. Source is the future. OTOH, who will play this? How many will stay with HL1DM (not that there are that many people playing anymore anyhow). This looks very nice, but I'm betting it will never become very popular. Few people play HL1 DM anymore. I hope I'm wrong, but my pessimistic side is winning out right now. Where is HL1Dm:Source going to go? Where will the players come from? What is Valve going to do to get people to play Source mods? Besides Counter-Shite, that is? - Original Message - From: "Skul`Hamr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 10:10 AM Subject: RE: [hlds] OT: Maps for HL1DM:SOURCE I downloaded the HL2E1 "pre" files last night and along with it came Half-Life Deathmatch: Source. It seemed pretty buggy to me. It took several tries of loading to get it up without fragging the video. Once it was up, it straightened out and looked great, but when I shut it down, it hung and I had to Cntl-alt-del to get it down all the way. Does that every time on my setup. I tried to run a listen server and everything worked great except that we started getting lag when only two or three people were playing on it. Dunno what that's about. Anyhow, it's another nice gimme from Valve and when they get the bugs out I'm guessing it will be popular. I don't figure they intend to do away with Deathmatch Classic. Remember, it's a salute to the people at id software. -Skul`Hamr -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Crabtree Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 6:49 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] OT: Maps for HL1DM:SOURCE We (I) am asking about HL1DM:Source. Not the HL1:source that has been out for a while. The DM:Source is supposed to be HL1DM redone in HL2DM Source Engine. I've played it and it's pretty ugly compared to regular HL1. I hope if they do plan on phasing out the older version that they get this one fixed first. Doug Crabtree -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 5:34 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] OT: Maps for HL1DM:SOURCE Am I missing something? Is Are we talking about HL2 DM, or is this actually Half-Life (Not HL2) death match - source, instead of the old non-source Half-Life multiplayer? And if this is what is going on, is the non-source HLDM going to be turned off sometime soon? Have I been living under a rock lately? - Original Message - From: "Doug Crabtree" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 1:13 PM Subject: [hlds] OT: Maps for HL1DM:SOURCE As this is released, I wanted to convert an old map to the new system. Does anybody know when the Hammer config will be included to use this game? Doug Crabtree ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] OT: Maps for HL1DM:SOURCE
I played a bit last night. I found the client to be fast, smooth, and stable. Very very nice looking, Crossfire was awesome! OMG, even the windows had broken glass shards sticking out of the frame. But the server kept crashing. I'll try to fire up a server this weekend and see how it works. I'm guessing all the old mods will need to be redone from scratch? Is this finally the end of OP4? Remember who told you first. Non source multiplayer games will be phased out, and eventually Valve will shut off the master servers, just as they shut down WON. Source is the future. OTOH, who will play this? How many will stay with HL1DM (not that there are that many people playing anymore anyhow). This looks very nice, but I'm betting it will never become very popular. Few people play HL1 DM anymore. I hope I'm wrong, but my pessimistic side is winning out right now. Where is HL1Dm:Source going to go? Where will the players come from? What is Valve going to do to get people to play Source mods? Besides Counter-Shite, that is? - Original Message - From: "Skul`Hamr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 10:10 AM Subject: RE: [hlds] OT: Maps for HL1DM:SOURCE I downloaded the HL2E1 "pre" files last night and along with it came Half-Life Deathmatch: Source. It seemed pretty buggy to me. It took several tries of loading to get it up without fragging the video. Once it was up, it straightened out and looked great, but when I shut it down, it hung and I had to Cntl-alt-del to get it down all the way. Does that every time on my setup. I tried to run a listen server and everything worked great except that we started getting lag when only two or three people were playing on it. Dunno what that's about. Anyhow, it's another nice gimme from Valve and when they get the bugs out I'm guessing it will be popular. I don't figure they intend to do away with Deathmatch Classic. Remember, it's a salute to the people at id software. -Skul`Hamr -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Crabtree Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 6:49 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] OT: Maps for HL1DM:SOURCE We (I) am asking about HL1DM:Source. Not the HL1:source that has been out for a while. The DM:Source is supposed to be HL1DM redone in HL2DM Source Engine. I've played it and it's pretty ugly compared to regular HL1. I hope if they do plan on phasing out the older version that they get this one fixed first. Doug Crabtree -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 5:34 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] OT: Maps for HL1DM:SOURCE Am I missing something? Is Are we talking about HL2 DM, or is this actually Half-Life (Not HL2) death match - source, instead of the old non-source Half-Life multiplayer? And if this is what is going on, is the non-source HLDM going to be turned off sometime soon? Have I been living under a rock lately? - Original Message - From: "Doug Crabtree" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 1:13 PM Subject: [hlds] OT: Maps for HL1DM:SOURCE As this is released, I wanted to convert an old map to the new system. Does anybody know when the Hammer config will be included to use this game? Doug Crabtree ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server?
I have regulars from Europe that play a lot on my server. They ping 250-350, and have never lagged the HPBs. - Original Message - From: "Alkaline" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server? Meh, I ping about 30-40 constantly in my server, I had a guy join with 200+ ping, all I noticed out of him was stalling and occasional skipping, I have never really noticed that pings rise due to that one guy, it would make all sense that if you cannot keep up with the tick you will just skip it, hence the pullback or something when your running. I dunno... my opinion on the matter. - Original Message - From: "Stuart Stegall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server? The server does not wait. This is why higher lag players being to jump around. There's a lag compensation part to it that attempts to smooth out movement and shots, but eventually it begins to not work due to insufficient information from the client with high ping. Do you honestly beieve the server packet handling thread(or however the internal architecture is) just sits there and waits for one client for 500ms? Steve Dawson wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] OK I have heard high pingers do lag the server by 1 person and the rest said that they dont. When thinking about it for second, what I want to know is how can they not lag the server. Think about this scenario: 10 players all with 30 ping, rate 2, update and cmd rates of 101, ex_interp .01, server: 200 fps, maxupdate 101, max rate 2, sv_maxunlag 0.5 On the server, a frame, or a world update, can be be finalized and sent to the players only after it has recieved all player data relating to that frame. Since the server recieves data from all players within 40ms from each player, it can calculate and send that world update immediately after But if there is a player with 300 ping, doesnt the server have to wait to recieve that players packet for it to be able to finalize the world update and send it to the players? up to .5 seconds because of max unlag? Let me give an example: you have 3 players. players a and b have 30 ping, rate 2, update and cmd rates of 101, ex_interp .01. player c has 350 ping, update and cmd rates of 20, ex_interp .1. Lets say that at a specific point in time, player A shoots at player B's head. The server recieves the update packet for both of those players for that point in time and is able to calculate that player a killed player b. the server is able to determine this 40ms after it happened. But even so, it cant finalize that kill and send it in a world update because what happens if 10 ms before player A shot player B, player C shot player A and killed him? So i figure that the world data must be stored in a timeline and that any givin point on the timeline can only be finalized after all client data for that specific has been recieved, or 500ms has passed because sv_maxunlag is 500ms. Considering all of this, wouldnt it be better to set sv_maxunlag .2 so that world updates would be sent at maximum 200ms after they occured? Please let me hear feedback on my assumptions and let me know how i am wrong or how i am right. Thank you. -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.3/331 - Release Date: 5/3/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server?
Going into even just how we believe lag compensation to work (and it might not be that complex or that simple because we don't know) will take about 15 pages of text. So you'll have to forgive me to not go into it. Check out the steamforums and the CS forums both have some people's surmations on how it works. Also note that the hlds and srcds engines work VERY differently. Steve Dawson wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I honestly don't know, why else would i be asking the question? So what your saying is, if person A (450ms) shoots at Person B (30ms) 10 ms before Person B shoots at Person A (30ms), and both shots were accurate, then first person C dies then person B dies. Or more importantly, lets say person A (450ms) and Person B (30ms) both see eachother and shoot at eachother at the same time. Time X: Person A has a shoots Person B with an awp and sends that information to the server. Time X + 10ms: Person B shoots person A with an awp and sends that information to the server. The server gets the player information for player A at (Time X + 450ms) The server gets the player information for player B at (Time X + 30ms) Player A shot first but the server recieves player B's data almost a half a second before recieving player A's data. Who dies? If what your saying is true then where is the so called lag compensation that hlds is supposed to perform? This would give a huge advantage to players with lower pings if the server didnt wait for all players packet data before calculating a frame wouldnt it? The server does not wait. This is why higher lag players being to jump around. There's a lag compensation part to it that attempts to smooth out movement and shots, but eventually it begins to not work due to insufficient information from the client with high ping. Do you honestly beieve the server packet handling thread(or however the internal architecture is) just sits there and waits for one client for 500ms? -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server?
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Sorry typo. I meant to say: So what your saying is, if person A (450ms) shoots at Person B (30ms) 10 ms before Person B shoots at Person C (30ms), and both shots were accurate, then first person C dies then person B dies. Instead of: So what your saying is, if person A (450ms) shoots at Person B (30ms) 10 ms before Person B shoots at Person A (30ms), and both shots were accurate, then first person C dies then person B dies. -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server?
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] >I have never really noticed that pings rise due to that one guy, Not saying that pings would raise, just that the server would have to wait longer to finalize world frame data. > it would make all sense that if you cannot keep up with the tick you will > just skip it, It seems to me that if the server just skipped ticks that a high pinger couldnt keep up with to at the average rate that the rest of the players could keep up, then the server would end up skipping all of them. -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] CS:S Server Hangs on World triggered "Round_Start"
This is the only time I have ever had that particular problem. If the round changes are not sync'd then it's not a problem. Nashalife | Newbie wrote: It does... Fresh copy, no mani, no bots, etc... But still, when running 3-4 busy servers on single Windows box, one of them will eventually hang... Problem is that it's really hard to reproduce, as stated by original poster, they may run well for a week or hang every one or two hours... May be it really has something to do with simultaneous Round Start events as pointed by Stuart... Need to test it a bit... Newbie - Original Message - From: "Adam Sando" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 4:21 AM Subject: RE: [hlds] CS:S Server Hangs on World triggered "Round_Start" Do you run any cmdline parameters other than -tickrate, +maxplayers, etc? Are you running bots at all? If so, have you tried disabling bots? Have you tried removing all files relating to Mani-admin (including config dirs, etc) and trying again? Have you tried running HLDSUpdateTool and creating a fresh default SRCDS file structure? I suggest creating a brand new copy of the source content from scratch, using the HLDSUpdateTool, and see if that exhibits the same problems. Regards, Adam -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roman Hatsiev Sent: Wednesday, 3 May 2006 23:41 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] CS:S Server Hangs on World triggered "Round_Start" Here is the problem which is haunting me for last few months (starting January I think). I've got six pretty busy CS:S public servers, Windows 2003, 16 slots, mostly standard maps, tickrate 66, Mani Admin Plugin, StatsMe Minimum. Occasionally one of them hangs consuming as much CPU as it can grab. Can't see any pattern - servers may work for few days without this problem and then may start dying every hour or two. The only common sign is that last line in the console always says World triggered "Round_Start" I verified installation with hldsupdatetool, tried to disable StatsMe and Mani - still no luck. Any suggestions? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by Hostworks Message Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information contact Hostworks on 1300 30 4848. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server?
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I honestly don't know, why else would i be asking the question? So what your saying is, if person A (450ms) shoots at Person B (30ms) 10 ms before Person B shoots at Person A (30ms), and both shots were accurate, then first person C dies then person B dies. Or more importantly, lets say person A (450ms) and Person B (30ms) both see eachother and shoot at eachother at the same time. Time X: Person A has a shoots Person B with an awp and sends that information to the server. Time X + 10ms: Person B shoots person A with an awp and sends that information to the server. The server gets the player information for player A at (Time X + 450ms) The server gets the player information for player B at (Time X + 30ms) Player A shot first but the server recieves player B's data almost a half a second before recieving player A's data. Who dies? If what your saying is true then where is the so called lag compensation that hlds is supposed to perform? This would give a huge advantage to players with lower pings if the server didnt wait for all players packet data before calculating a frame wouldnt it? >The server does not wait. This is why higher lag players being to jump >around. There's a lag compensation part to it that attempts to smooth >out movement and shots, but eventually it begins to not work due to >insufficient information from the client with high ping. Do you >honestly beieve the server packet handling thread(or however the >internal architecture is) just sits there and waits for one client for >500ms? -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] <-- doesn't this imply HL1?
I dunno. Personally I don't even think we should have a windows and a linux list. Should just have one list. And the hlds/srcds issues is very rare. Most of the issues are common to all 4 situations. Nashalife | Newbie wrote: Then it should probably be [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newbie - Original Message - From: "Jason O. Washburn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 8:47 AM Subject: RE: [hlds] <-- doesn't this imply HL1? I think that would be a good idea also. Jason -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chorizo Omelet Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 11:39 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] <-- doesn't this imply HL1? Not to shake the boat too much, as I know most of the list readers would rather blaze than actually help anyone, but shouldn't valve create a separate mailing list for Source? Plenty of us have been unnecessarily confused by bogus advise from *experts* who were actually talking about one system or the other. Alfred, can valve create [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is hard enough to find pure hlds information on the valve website; no so with Source. Of course, I understand the company wants to move forward and supporting the past is a painful endeavor. Still, this would go along way. Thanks, Chorizo Omelet Come and play! http://gs1.ender.us ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] GamePanel became The Gamehosting Control Panel, ie TCA. http://www.tcadmin.com/ It's a commercial product. Basically they are trying to sell it to GSPs who for the most part develop their own. To be honest this is most of what seperates GSPs (also how they load their servers and what kind of machines they lease/buy) DLinkOZ wrote: > http://www.gamepanel.org/site/ > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nashalife | Newbie > Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 5:42 AM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel > > Just an addition: google for rcon.class.php, this might help. > Also, there's a hack for Psychostats made by Quark and available at > http://psmod.net that has this functionality built in so you can condier > using it right away. > > Newbie > - Original Message - > From: "Nashalife | Newbie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 2:11 PM > Subject: Re: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel > > > >> You could create a php script to send rcon commands to your server >> which makes it pretty much an admin panel >> >> Newbie >> - Original Message - >> From: "Groove" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 1:44 PM >> Subject: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel >> >> >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> is there any web based admin panel for windows servers ? >>> >>> And if yes, could you tell me the name please :D >>> >>> Thx in advance ! >>> >>> ___ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>> archives, please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server?
Meh, I ping about 30-40 constantly in my server, I had a guy join with 200+ ping, all I noticed out of him was stalling and occasional skipping, I have never really noticed that pings rise due to that one guy, it would make all sense that if you cannot keep up with the tick you will just skip it, hence the pullback or something when your running. I dunno... my opinion on the matter. - Original Message - From: "Stuart Stegall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server? The server does not wait. This is why higher lag players being to jump around. There's a lag compensation part to it that attempts to smooth out movement and shots, but eventually it begins to not work due to insufficient information from the client with high ping. Do you honestly beieve the server packet handling thread(or however the internal architecture is) just sits there and waits for one client for 500ms? Steve Dawson wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] OK I have heard high pingers do lag the server by 1 person and the rest said that they dont. When thinking about it for second, what I want to know is how can they not lag the server. Think about this scenario: 10 players all with 30 ping, rate 2, update and cmd rates of 101, ex_interp .01, server: 200 fps, maxupdate 101, max rate 2, sv_maxunlag 0.5 On the server, a frame, or a world update, can be be finalized and sent to the players only after it has recieved all player data relating to that frame. Since the server recieves data from all players within 40ms from each player, it can calculate and send that world update immediately after But if there is a player with 300 ping, doesnt the server have to wait to recieve that players packet for it to be able to finalize the world update and send it to the players? up to .5 seconds because of max unlag? Let me give an example: you have 3 players. players a and b have 30 ping, rate 2, update and cmd rates of 101, ex_interp .01. player c has 350 ping, update and cmd rates of 20, ex_interp .1. Lets say that at a specific point in time, player A shoots at player B's head. The server recieves the update packet for both of those players for that point in time and is able to calculate that player a killed player b. the server is able to determine this 40ms after it happened. But even so, it cant finalize that kill and send it in a world update because what happens if 10 ms before player A shot player B, player C shot player A and killed him? So i figure that the world data must be stored in a timeline and that any givin point on the timeline can only be finalized after all client data for that specific has been recieved, or 500ms has passed because sv_maxunlag is 500ms. Considering all of this, wouldnt it be better to set sv_maxunlag .2 so that world updates would be sent at maximum 200ms after they occured? Please let me hear feedback on my assumptions and let me know how i am wrong or how i am right. Thank you. -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.3/331 - Release Date: 5/3/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] OT: Maps for HL1DM:SOURCE
I downloaded the HL2E1 "pre" files last night and along with it came Half-Life Deathmatch: Source. It seemed pretty buggy to me. It took several tries of loading to get it up without fragging the video. Once it was up, it straightened out and looked great, but when I shut it down, it hung and I had to Cntl-alt-del to get it down all the way. Does that every time on my setup. I tried to run a listen server and everything worked great except that we started getting lag when only two or three people were playing on it. Dunno what that's about. Anyhow, it's another nice gimme from Valve and when they get the bugs out I'm guessing it will be popular. I don't figure they intend to do away with Deathmatch Classic. Remember, it's a salute to the people at id software. -Skul`Hamr -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Crabtree Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 6:49 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] OT: Maps for HL1DM:SOURCE We (I) am asking about HL1DM:Source. Not the HL1:source that has been out for a while. The DM:Source is supposed to be HL1DM redone in HL2DM Source Engine. I've played it and it's pretty ugly compared to regular HL1. I hope if they do plan on phasing out the older version that they get this one fixed first. Doug Crabtree -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 5:34 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] OT: Maps for HL1DM:SOURCE Am I missing something? Is Are we talking about HL2 DM, or is this actually Half-Life (Not HL2) death match - source, instead of the old non-source Half-Life multiplayer? And if this is what is going on, is the non-source HLDM going to be turned off sometime soon? Have I been living under a rock lately? - Original Message - From: "Doug Crabtree" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 1:13 PM Subject: [hlds] OT: Maps for HL1DM:SOURCE > As this is released, I wanted to convert an old map to the new system. > Does > anybody know when the Hammer config will be included to use this game? > > Doug Crabtree > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server?
I can't comment about your scenario - but I too have regulars from Europe with 250-350 ping that play all the time on my OP4 server. I've never once see them cause lag for HPBs. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] OK I have heard high pingers do lag the server by 1 person and the rest said that they dont. When thinking about it for second, what I want to know is how can they not lag the server. Think about this scenario: 10 players all with 30 ping, rate 2, update and cmd rates of 101, ex_interp .01, server: 200 fps, maxupdate 101, max rate 2, sv_maxunlag 0.5 On the server, a frame, or a world update, can be be finalized and sent to the players only after it has recieved all player data relating to that frame. Since the server recieves data from all players within 40ms from each player, it can calculate and send that world update immediately after But if there is a player with 300 ping, doesnt the server have to wait to recieve that players packet for it to be able to finalize the world update and send it to the players? up to .5 seconds because of max unlag? Let me give an example: you have 3 players. players a and b have 30 ping, rate 2, update and cmd rates of 101, ex_interp .01. player c has 350 ping, update and cmd rates of 20, ex_interp .1. Lets say that at a specific point in time, player A shoots at player B's head. The server recieves the update packet for both of those players for that point in time and is able to calculate that player a killed player b. the server is able to determine this 40ms after it happened. But even so, it cant finalize that kill and send it in a world update because what happens if 10 ms before player A shot player B, player C shot player A and killed him? So i figure that the world data must be stored in a timeline and that any givin point on the timeline can only be finalized after all client data for that specific has been recieved, or 500ms has passed because sv_maxunlag is 500ms. Considering all of this, wouldnt it be better to set sv_maxunlag .2 so that world updates would be sent at maximum 200ms after they occured? Please let me hear feedback on my assumptions and let me know how i am wrong or how i am right. Thank you. -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server?
The server does not wait. This is why higher lag players being to jump around. There's a lag compensation part to it that attempts to smooth out movement and shots, but eventually it begins to not work due to insufficient information from the client with high ping. Do you honestly beieve the server packet handling thread(or however the internal architecture is) just sits there and waits for one client for 500ms? Steve Dawson wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] OK I have heard high pingers do lag the server by 1 person and the rest said that they dont. When thinking about it for second, what I want to know is how can they not lag the server. Think about this scenario: 10 players all with 30 ping, rate 2, update and cmd rates of 101, ex_interp .01, server: 200 fps, maxupdate 101, max rate 2, sv_maxunlag 0.5 On the server, a frame, or a world update, can be be finalized and sent to the players only after it has recieved all player data relating to that frame. Since the server recieves data from all players within 40ms from each player, it can calculate and send that world update immediately after But if there is a player with 300 ping, doesnt the server have to wait to recieve that players packet for it to be able to finalize the world update and send it to the players? up to .5 seconds because of max unlag? Let me give an example: you have 3 players. players a and b have 30 ping, rate 2, update and cmd rates of 101, ex_interp .01. player c has 350 ping, update and cmd rates of 20, ex_interp .1. Lets say that at a specific point in time, player A shoots at player B's head. The server recieves the update packet for both of those players for that point in time and is able to calculate that player a killed player b. the server is able to determine this 40ms after it happened. But even so, it cant finalize that kill and send it in a world update because what happens if 10 ms before player A shot player B, player C shot player A and killed him? So i figure that the world data must be stored in a timeline and that any givin point on the timeline can only be finalized after all client data for that specific has been recieved, or 500ms has passed because sv_maxunlag is 500ms. Considering all of this, wouldnt it be better to set sv_maxunlag .2 so that world updates would be sent at maximum 200ms after they occured? Please let me hear feedback on my assumptions and let me know how i am wrong or how i am right. Thank you. -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server?
Steve, you're wrong on thinking how server generates frames... It doesn't wait for everybody to submit the data for several reasons: - in this case people with higher ping would definitely lag the server and it doesn't matter whether the ping is 100 or 500, any player with ping higher than other would cause lag - every client has own network settings which control the number of updates it sends to server per second and these settings are not always the same as server's tickrate (number of world simulations per second which you referred to as frames) - single packet lost in transit would cause yet bigger lag on the server. >From what you've written I see that you're talking about HL1 engine, but that doesn't differ too much with Source so if you're really curious on how networking works in Valve games, please refer to http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking for general description. If you want more information, dig http://forums.steampowered.com/forums - there are quite some comprehensive guides on the topic (but be careful, a lot of speculation can be found there as well)... Regards, Newbie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Dawson Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 08:22 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server? -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] OK I have heard high pingers do lag the server by 1 person and the rest said that they dont. When thinking about it for second, what I want to know is how can they not lag the server. Think about this scenario: 10 players all with 30 ping, rate 2, update and cmd rates of 101, ex_interp .01, server: 200 fps, maxupdate 101, max rate 2, sv_maxunlag 0.5 On the server, a frame, or a world update, can be be finalized and sent to the players only after it has recieved all player data relating to that frame. Since the server recieves data from all players within 40ms from each player, it can calculate and send that world update immediately after But if there is a player with 300 ping, doesnt the server have to wait to recieve that players packet for it to be able to finalize the world update and send it to the players? up to .5 seconds because of max unlag? Let me give an example: you have 3 players. players a and b have 30 ping, rate 2, update and cmd rates of 101, ex_interp .01. player c has 350 ping, update and cmd rates of 20, ex_interp .1. Lets say that at a specific point in time, player A shoots at player B's head. The server recieves the update packet for both of those players for that point in time and is able to calculate that player a killed player b. the server is able to determine this 40ms after it happened. But even so, it cant finalize that kill and send it in a world update because what happens if 10 ms before player A shot player B, player C shot player A and killed him? So i figure that the world data must be stored in a timeline and that any givin point on the timeline can only be finalized after all client data for that specific has been recieved, or 500ms has passed because sv_maxunlag is 500ms. Considering all of this, wouldnt it be better to set sv_maxunlag .2 so that world updates would be sent at maximum 200ms after they occured? Please let me hear feedback on my assumptions and let me know how i am wrong or how i am right. Thank you. -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server?
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] OK I have heard high pingers do lag the server by 1 person and the rest said that they dont. When thinking about it for second, what I want to know is how can they not lag the server. Think about this scenario: 10 players all with 30 ping, rate 2, update and cmd rates of 101, ex_interp .01, server: 200 fps, maxupdate 101, max rate 2, sv_maxunlag 0.5 On the server, a frame, or a world update, can be be finalized and sent to the players only after it has recieved all player data relating to that frame. Since the server recieves data from all players within 40ms from each player, it can calculate and send that world update immediately after But if there is a player with 300 ping, doesnt the server have to wait to recieve that players packet for it to be able to finalize the world update and send it to the players? up to .5 seconds because of max unlag? Let me give an example: you have 3 players. players a and b have 30 ping, rate 2, update and cmd rates of 101, ex_interp .01. player c has 350 ping, update and cmd rates of 20, ex_interp .1. Lets say that at a specific point in time, player A shoots at player B's head. The server recieves the update packet for both of those players for that point in time and is able to calculate that player a killed player b. the server is able to determine this 40ms after it happened. But even so, it cant finalize that kill and send it in a world update because what happens if 10 ms before player A shot player B, player C shot player A and killed him? So i figure that the world data must be stored in a timeline and that any givin point on the timeline can only be finalized after all client data for that specific has been recieved, or 500ms has passed because sv_maxunlag is 500ms. Considering all of this, wouldnt it be better to set sv_maxunlag .2 so that world updates would be sent at maximum 200ms after they occured? Please let me hear feedback on my assumptions and let me know how i am wrong or how i am right. Thank you. -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server?
DT, my friend, you are wrong twice in your messages. First, the server draws the frame based on information it has and doesn't really care about you ping at that time. The information about player's ping is used to calculate hit registration but it has nothing to do with lag. If you want details, some very comprehensive researches about it available at Valve Dev community wiki and in Steampowered forums. High ping players do not cause lag and there's no way thet actualy can. Second, you seem to have forgot that not everyone lives in US, UK or other location with broadly available cheap DSL lines. You might be surprised to know that there are places where DSL would cost you about 1000 USD/month (that one thousand, not typo) and there are other places, where DSL is not an option at all and dial-up is the only way to get into internet. Cheers, Newbie - Original Message - From: "DT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server? Brian M Frain (eternal) wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I play on dial-up all the time, no lag caused by me being there. Someone is feeding you a line. Now I will say that people who have serious lag do cause issues. They hop all over and are almost impossible to hit but that is someone with a +500 ping. I get around 2-300 and when I am lucky it is in the 100's. On 5/3/06, L.o.D. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -- -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I recently was in a tfc server, not same game but same engine, and there was a player with a constant 3000+ ping & the server never lagged once. I believe that to be a farce that laggers lag a server. ---Original Message--- From: Steve Dawson Date: 05/03/06 18:27:43 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server? -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi, do hi pinging players lag a cs 1.6 server. It would make sense to me. This is what i heard: Laggers DO Lag the Server: Because of the way hlds deals with lag compensation, players that are lagging on the server actually really do lag the entire server. This is because if the server has to wait for data from all players on the server before it can calculate each frame. So if everyone on the server has under 50 ping except 1 person with 200 ping, the server has to wait an extra 150 ms per frame it calculates. This is why I highly reccomend a high ping kicker set to kick anybody with over 100 ping. Thanks -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds __ NOD32 1.1518 (20060503) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- [ 04.jpg of type image/jpeg deleted ] -- [ 04_footer.gif of type image/gif deleted ] -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds I'm sorry that you cannot afford 12.99 to 17.99 a month for DSL. I bet you use dial-up because of that reason only. You are wrong when you say "you don't cause lag" you do. I have used dial-up, and every time I did I was told that I lagged the server. I have DSL now. I see it all the time when the speeds are good because everyone has Broadband and one guy who is too cheap to buy broadband, comes in with 300 ping and lags the whole thing. We have been playing without lag for an hour, all of a sudden huge lag, over and over and over. A guy came on with 250 ping. Once he leaves it's back to perfect for another hour till the next cheap skate comes in. One person with 200-300 ping does wreak the fun of the other 30 players because he is too cheap. If it were reversed and I was doing that to you? Or something similar at your work or home I'm sure you would be one of those cursing too. Why is it fair that because you don't have dsl we all have to suffer? -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.2/330 - Release Date: 5/3/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server?
I don't think ping is the only problem. I think packet loss has something to do with it also. We had a member of our clan that lives in Germany, when he plays he is between 200 and 300 ping all the time. Didn't ever effect our servers. We have many visitors from over seas that don't effect our servers. On the other hand I have seen some in there with 200-300 pings when they get in the whole experience grinds to a halt. So it can't be _just_ ping. There has to be another reason... Not all 200+ pingers are cheapskates :) Doug Crabtree -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DT Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 9:24 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server? I'm sorry that you cannot afford 12.99 to 17.99 a month for DSL. I bet you use dial-up because of that reason only. You are wrong when you say "you don't cause lag" you do. I have used dial-up, and every time I did I was told that I lagged the server. I have DSL now. I see it all the time when the speeds are good because everyone has Broadband and one guy who is too cheap to buy broadband, comes in with 300 ping and lags the whole thing. We have been playing without lag for an hour, all of a sudden huge lag, over and over and over. A guy came on with 250 ping. Once he leaves it's back to perfect for another hour till the next cheap skate comes in. One person with 200-300 ping does wreak the fun of the other 30 players because he is too cheap. If it were reversed and I was doing that to you? Or something similar at your work or home I'm sure you would be one of those cursing too. Why is it fair that because you don't have dsl we all have to suffer? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server?
Brian M Frain (eternal) wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I play on dial-up all the time, no lag caused by me being there. Someone is feeding you a line. Now I will say that people who have serious lag do cause issues. They hop all over and are almost impossible to hit but that is someone with a +500 ping. I get around 2-300 and when I am lucky it is in the 100's. On 5/3/06, L.o.D. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -- -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I recently was in a tfc server, not same game but same engine, and there was a player with a constant 3000+ ping & the server never lagged once. I believe that to be a farce that laggers lag a server. ---Original Message--- From: Steve Dawson Date: 05/03/06 18:27:43 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server? -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi, do hi pinging players lag a cs 1.6 server. It would make sense to me. This is what i heard: Laggers DO Lag the Server: Because of the way hlds deals with lag compensation, players that are lagging on the server actually really do lag the entire server. This is because if the server has to wait for data from all players on the server before it can calculate each frame. So if everyone on the server has under 50 ping except 1 person with 200 ping, the server has to wait an extra 150 ms per frame it calculates. This is why I highly reccomend a high ping kicker set to kick anybody with over 100 ping. Thanks -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds __ NOD32 1.1518 (20060503) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- [ 04.jpg of type image/jpeg deleted ] -- [ 04_footer.gif of type image/gif deleted ] -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds I'm sorry that you cannot afford 12.99 to 17.99 a month for DSL. I bet you use dial-up because of that reason only. You are wrong when you say "you don't cause lag" you do. I have used dial-up, and every time I did I was told that I lagged the server. I have DSL now. I see it all the time when the speeds are good because everyone has Broadband and one guy who is too cheap to buy broadband, comes in with 300 ping and lags the whole thing. We have been playing without lag for an hour, all of a sudden huge lag, over and over and over. A guy came on with 250 ping. Once he leaves it's back to perfect for another hour till the next cheap skate comes in. One person with 200-300 ping does wreak the fun of the other 30 players because he is too cheap. If it were reversed and I was doing that to you? Or something similar at your work or home I'm sure you would be one of those cursing too. Why is it fair that because you don't have dsl we all have to suffer? -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.2/330 - Release Date: 5/3/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] High Ping Players Lag Server?
Steve Dawson wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hi, do hi pinging players lag a cs 1.6 server. It would make sense to me. This is what i heard: Laggers DO Lag the Server: Because of the way hlds deals with lag compensation, players that are lagging on the server actually really do lag the entire server. This is because if the server has to wait for data from all players on the server before it can calculate each frame. So if everyone on the server has under 50 ping except 1 person with 200 ping, the server has to wait an extra 150 ms per frame it calculates. This is why I highly reccomend a high ping kicker set to kick anybody with over 100 ping. Thanks -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds Valve might say it doesn't but I disagree. From my own playing experience. How many times I can tell that a high pinger has just started playing. I have watched this carefully. I hope some of the other playing admin's give their experience too. The lag starts when the "high pinger" arrived and stops when they leave too. If it is just my imagination? Then why does it happen every time? Plus, explain how the server does NOT LAG if you have 30 players below 60 ping and 1 - 250 pinger comes on. How does the server link up all the packets arriving at the same speed but ONE and NOT cause some sort lag. To the guy who says he plays between 200-300 ping and does not cause lag to the other players with 4X faster ping? How do you know your not causing lag? Maybe, your are... maybe the guys that spend money to have a fast Internet connection are also polite. Besides, DSL is so cheap now. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.2/330 - Release Date: 5/3/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel
http://www.gamepanel.org/site/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nashalife | Newbie Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 5:42 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel Just an addition: google for rcon.class.php, this might help. Also, there's a hack for Psychostats made by Quark and available at http://psmod.net that has this functionality built in so you can condier using it right away. Newbie - Original Message - From: "Nashalife | Newbie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel > You could create a php script to send rcon commands to your server > which makes it pretty much an admin panel > > Newbie > - Original Message - > From: "Groove" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 1:44 PM > Subject: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel > > >> Hi, >> >> is there any web based admin panel for windows servers ? >> >> And if yes, could you tell me the name please :D >> >> Thx in advance ! >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel
Just an addition: google for rcon.class.php, this might help. Also, there's a hack for Psychostats made by Quark and available at http://psmod.net that has this functionality built in so you can condier using it right away. Newbie - Original Message - From: "Nashalife | Newbie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel You could create a php script to send rcon commands to your server which makes it pretty much an admin panel Newbie - Original Message - From: "Groove" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 1:44 PM Subject: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel Hi, is there any web based admin panel for windows servers ? And if yes, could you tell me the name please :D Thx in advance ! ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel
You could create a php script to send rcon commands to your server which makes it pretty much an admin panel Newbie - Original Message - From: "Groove" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 1:44 PM Subject: [hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel Hi, is there any web based admin panel for windows servers ? And if yes, could you tell me the name please :D Thx in advance ! ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] SRCDS Web Adminpanel
Hi, is there any web based admin panel for windows servers ? And if yes, could you tell me the name please :D Thx in advance ! ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
