Re: [hlds] CSS map rotations
Well I know for a fact we go out of our way to ensure that our servers (public, bookable & war) are not overloaded, especially when full. Otherwise you end up looking like idiots to the largest possible audience since the lag and crappy play will occur when the most people are on your servers. But thats our philosphy. I will have to learn not to speak on behalf of others on the assumption that they are technically proficient and actually wish to provide a decent client experience. Silly me On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 12:26:14 -0500, StealthMode <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Replying to the comments about gsps general practices of overloading > equipment... > > The comments made are correct. I will not state specific companies, but many > are in the practice of overloading equipment. For example, one popular > provider has 12-14 servers on one dual 2.8 machine w/ only 2 gigs ram, and a > 10mbps port to the box. These servers range from 32 player all the way down > to 12 player private servers with hltv (an additional drain on resources > when in use). They do not take into account that when a server is full or in > use it eats more resources then when it is barely used. I point to this same > company (I did a scan on their ips). Each ip had 6-8 installs of hlds on it. > And on average two ips assigned to each machine. But for example, the > private we leased with them ate up 35%-45% cpu (That's one physical cpu) on > a dual cpu machine when full. What these companies are making the mistake of > is counting on HyperThreading. HLDS is not designed to be run SMP w/ ht. So > those 4 virtual cpus that only show 7%-11% load, are in fact one real cpu > hitting almost 40% load. Now if you have one client hitting 40% load on one > cpu of a dual cpu machine. And you have between 6-12 customers on that box. > Overloading is easily seen as the culprit. > > Now to address the latter part of the comments. "All GSPS practice this". I > know for a fact of at least one that doesn't. (Shameless self-promotion) > When we setup a box for customers, we look at it as if the hlds will be full > constantly. We allocate the bandwidth, and resources necessary for the > customers as if their servers were full 24/7 (Some are). Now we aren't > looking for super profit margins (like some GSPS) so we can afford to do it > this way. We are basically just making a minimum profit while providing > quality servers. > > Why are we not concerned with making a huge profit? Because we aren't > greedy. We use the servers ourselves as a matter of fact (EG: one box has 3 > of our personal servers, while the remaining section of the box has 2 other > servers on it, in this example we could have 8 more servers on it like most > GSPS, however, we are worried about quality not quantity). Unfortunately, > most GSPS are not like us. Or else we wouldn't have the demand we are seeing > for our services so soon after launching. 8) > > [End shameless self-promotion] > What is truly sad is the fact that some GSPS charge you and arm and a leg > for their services, but still overload their equipment, this is inexcusable > and the game leasee should step up and let the GSP know that they are > getting hosed. But unfortunately a great many leasees do not know that there > are other options that cost less. > > That is all about to change. 8) > > StealthMode > #lotgaming > www.lotgaming.com > (Site still not up yet, had some difficulties this week) > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] CSS map rotations
Replying to the comments about gsps general practices of overloading equipment... The comments made are correct. I will not state specific companies, but many are in the practice of overloading equipment. For example, one popular provider has 12-14 servers on one dual 2.8 machine w/ only 2 gigs ram, and a 10mbps port to the box. These servers range from 32 player all the way down to 12 player private servers with hltv (an additional drain on resources when in use). They do not take into account that when a server is full or in use it eats more resources then when it is barely used. I point to this same company (I did a scan on their ips). Each ip had 6-8 installs of hlds on it. And on average two ips assigned to each machine. But for example, the private we leased with them ate up 35%-45% cpu (That's one physical cpu) on a dual cpu machine when full. What these companies are making the mistake of is counting on HyperThreading. HLDS is not designed to be run SMP w/ ht. So those 4 virtual cpus that only show 7%-11% load, are in fact one real cpu hitting almost 40% load. Now if you have one client hitting 40% load on one cpu of a dual cpu machine. And you have between 6-12 customers on that box. Overloading is easily seen as the culprit. Now to address the latter part of the comments. "All GSPS practice this". I know for a fact of at least one that doesn't. (Shameless self-promotion) When we setup a box for customers, we look at it as if the hlds will be full constantly. We allocate the bandwidth, and resources necessary for the customers as if their servers were full 24/7 (Some are). Now we aren't looking for super profit margins (like some GSPS) so we can afford to do it this way. We are basically just making a minimum profit while providing quality servers. Why are we not concerned with making a huge profit? Because we aren't greedy. We use the servers ourselves as a matter of fact (EG: one box has 3 of our personal servers, while the remaining section of the box has 2 other servers on it, in this example we could have 8 more servers on it like most GSPS, however, we are worried about quality not quantity). Unfortunately, most GSPS are not like us. Or else we wouldn't have the demand we are seeing for our services so soon after launching. 8) [End shameless self-promotion] What is truly sad is the fact that some GSPS charge you and arm and a leg for their services, but still overload their equipment, this is inexcusable and the game leasee should step up and let the GSP know that they are getting hosed. But unfortunately a great many leasees do not know that there are other options that cost less. That is all about to change. 8) StealthMode #lotgaming www.lotgaming.com (Site still not up yet, had some difficulties this week) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] CSS map rotations
Yes GSP's "over allocate" servers to machines, just like airlines over allocate seats on their planes. It makes sound business sense that, if you can fit 8 servers on a machine because 100% of the time not all 8 are 100% full you do it. It makes better use of your resources and allows you to offer a cost saving to the client. Now if you take away CPU savings by making the server process, even when it doesn't have too, you will loose some of the ability to "over allocate" the machines capacity. Just to be clear even though this "over allocation" happens, it doesn't mean "your" server cant be 100% full when you want it to be or that your server will suffer in performance. Any GSP worth their salt will monitor every machines performance so that it always maintains spare capacity. If that means because there are 5 servers which are 100% full together on a specific machine then not they wont add the additional 3 servers to make the estimated 8, as this would cause issues. So yes sparticus' point really was that GSP's don't want server processes that use precious resources when empty as they do "over allocate" machines resources which benefits both host and client. If you think otherwise you'd be badly mistaken. Steve / K - Original Message - From: "Whisper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> So you are telling me you set up your servers so that if all of the HLDS processes allocated to that server were in use, the server would die in the arse because nobody checked that the server could in fact run all the HLDS processes allocated to them? Maybe you would like to enlighten me on what sparticus' point really was? On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 03:51:31 -, Steven Hartland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I assume you don't run a GSP yourself then Whisper as you totally missed spartibus point. This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone (023) 8024 3137 or return the E.mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] CSS map rotations
So you are telling me you set up your servers so that if all of the HLDS processes allocated to that server were in use, the server would die in the arse because nobody checked that the server could in fact run all the HLDS processes allocated to them? Maybe you would like to enlighten me on what sparticus' point really was? On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 03:51:31 -, Steven Hartland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I assume you don't run a GSP yourself then Whisper as you totally > missed spartibus point. > >Steve / K > - Original Message - > From: "Whisper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > It be bloody pointless running multiple HLDS processes on a machine > > unless the machine COULD cope with it running with all HLDS' full. If > > it cannot, then you're an idiot and have no business running a server > > in the first place, let alone one for a GSP. > > > > On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 09:50:03 -0800, spartibus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> ROFL Dennis, are you serious? I imagine that would be great for GSPs and > >> other people that run multiple servers on the same machine. > > > > This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the > person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the > recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise > disseminating it or any information contained in it. > > In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please > telephone (023) 8024 3137 > or return the E.mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] CSS map rotations
I assume you don't run a GSP yourself then Whisper as you totally missed spartibus point. Steve / K - Original Message - From: "Whisper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> It be bloody pointless running multiple HLDS processes on a machine unless the machine COULD cope with it running with all HLDS' full. If it cannot, then you're an idiot and have no business running a server in the first place, let alone one for a GSP. On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 09:50:03 -0800, spartibus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ROFL Dennis, are you serious? I imagine that would be great for GSPs and other people that run multiple servers on the same machine. This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone (023) 8024 3137 or return the E.mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] CSS map rotations
It be bloody pointless running multiple HLDS processes on a machine unless the machine COULD cope with it running with all HLDS' full. If it cannot, then you're an idiot and have no business running a server in the first place, let alone one for a GSP. On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 09:50:03 -0800, spartibus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ROFL Dennis, are you serious? I imagine that would be great for GSPs and > other people that run multiple servers on the same machine. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis > Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 9:33 AM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: RE: [hlds] CSS map rotations > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ironchef > > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 2:24 PM > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: RE: [hlds] CSS map rotations > > > > > Alfred Reynolds wrote: > > > Maps only rotate when players are in the server. > > > > > It's a general CPU optimization (the game server doesn't run game > > logic > > > if there are no users connected). We have no plans to change this > > > behavior at this time. > > > > > > - Alfred > > > > Looks like we'll have to use a plugin in order to get a rotation like > > HLDS used to. It just doesn't make sense to me though -- if a server's > > sitting idle, chances are it's because of the map, and if no one's > > joining because of the map it's on, then the damn map is never going to > > change. > > > > Not only that, but if no one is playing, then why the need to conserve CPU? > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] CSS map rotations
If other instances on same machine can't cope with an empty server rotating, then they're hardly going to cope when the server gets busy I am guessing is the point being made. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] CSS map rotations
ROFL Dennis, are you serious? I imagine that would be great for GSPs and other people that run multiple servers on the same machine. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 9:33 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] CSS map rotations > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ironchef > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 2:24 PM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: RE: [hlds] CSS map rotations > > > Alfred Reynolds wrote: > > Maps only rotate when players are in the server. > > > It's a general CPU optimization (the game server doesn't run game > logic > > if there are no users connected). We have no plans to change this > > behavior at this time. > > > > - Alfred > > Looks like we'll have to use a plugin in order to get a rotation like > HLDS used to. It just doesn't make sense to me though -- if a server's > sitting idle, chances are it's because of the map, and if no one's > joining because of the map it's on, then the damn map is never going to > change. > Not only that, but if no one is playing, then why the need to conserve CPU? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] CSS map rotations
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ironchef > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 2:24 PM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: RE: [hlds] CSS map rotations > > > Alfred Reynolds wrote: > > Maps only rotate when players are in the server. > > > It's a general CPU optimization (the game server doesn't run game > logic > > if there are no users connected). We have no plans to change this > > behavior at this time. > > > > - Alfred > > Looks like we'll have to use a plugin in order to get a rotation like > HLDS used to. It just doesn't make sense to me though -- if a server's > sitting idle, chances are it's because of the map, and if no one's > joining because of the map it's on, then the damn map is never going to > change. > Not only that, but if no one is playing, then why the need to conserve CPU? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] CSS map rotations
Graham M. wrote: > Someone actually needs to be in the server playing the maps for the > time limit to have any affect for some reason. That seems to the be the answer. I wrote Alfred this morning to get the definitive answer, and here it is: ---Original Message From: ironchef [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 11:07 AM To: Alfred Reynolds Subject: RE: Source map rotations > Alfred Reynolds wrote: > Maps only rotate when players are in the server. > It's a general CPU optimization (the game server doesn't run game logic > if there are no users connected). We have no plans to change this > behavior at this time. > > - Alfred Looks like we'll have to use a plugin in order to get a rotation like HLDS used to. It just doesn't make sense to me though -- if a server's sitting idle, chances are it's because of the map, and if no one's joining because of the map it's on, then the damn map is never going to change. -- ironchef http://www.dexworld.org/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] CSS map rotations
As there are no players there is no game as such and untill player join you need 2 to actually start the game maybe some players dont have access to your custom maps in the cycle thats why it sits empty for so long try cutting down on the custom maps it will busy up your server ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] CSS map rotations
Someone actually needs to be in the server playing the maps for the time limit to have any affect for some reason. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ironchef Sent: 14 January 2005 07:44 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] CSS map rotations Can someone explain what kind of black magic voodoo is necessary to get a map rotation going on CSS? I've got my mapcycle, de_subway_2 cs_mansion aim_dualiescamp cs_twilight de_prodigy fy_poolday_reunion de_dust2 bt_arena_beta1 de_chessyard de_congo And the relevant time-related cvars set in server.cfg, mp_roundtime 4 mp_timelimit 20 mp_spawnprotectiontime 10 mp_freezetime 6 And yet, my server's been sitting on the same map for about 2 hours now. This behavior is far from predictable. Sometimes it'll seem to rotate through the maps ok, others it'll just sit stagnant for hours. Does someone need to be playing for it rotate maps? -- ironchef http://www.dexworld.org/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
