Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] No, but I guess I inferred it from your demeanor. :D --Ozz -- Original message -- > On 10/15/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Sorry sv_maxunlag 0.150 > > > > I was tired > > np. :) > > > But I haven't seen anything that states it must be an even integer James... > > ? Did I suggest such? > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
On 10/15/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sorry sv_maxunlag 0.150 > > I was tired np. :) > But I haven't seen anything that states it must be an even integer James... ? Did I suggest such? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Sorry sv_maxunlag 0.150 I was tired But I haven't seen anything that states it must be an even integer James... --Ozz -- Original message -- > On 10/14/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > -- > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > sv_maxunlag 150 should help those effects. I have yet to experience a bad > game on a server where I ping over 100 (i usually ping 110-120 to these > distant > servers) like CoJ and ESD (in germany). I am in Delaware -East Coast USA- and > as far as I know CoJ is out west somewhere (i.e. Cali). Either way, I play > with > the default interp of .1 and I seem to play as well if not better at times on > these servers, without sacrificing any performance degredation (like those > past > the corner shots) or video stutter. I run from 40-90 fps on any given server > no > matter what as well. > > Almost correct, sadly, you missed the definition of sv_maxunlag. I've > started a Source netcode document over at sourcewiki, but I started > late last night, so it's only the defnitions section so far. I will > probably steam some of whispers hard work to complete it, but this > will be more from a client point of view, to teach end users. Either > way, the definition is there, you will see it is in seconds, not ms. > :) > > Naturally, you would get outstanding performance from having a maximum > unlag time of 150 seconds, but at the same time, your score (and life) > could be adjusted throughout the first two and half minutes of a > round. > > > The maxunlag CVAR will prevent you (the broadband player within reasonable > distance @ 150 ms or better) from suffering the ill effects of high-pingers to > your game session. I wish it was a standard default value to be honest. It > would help bring everyone just oh-so-much-closer to a level playing field. > > It doesn't actually restrict anything, as it's a capping value. The > defualt setting is 1, many league configs incorrectly suggest setting > this to 0.5, which I have seen no gains from doing, even in scenarios > where the average ping is <30 (my regular playing environments). > > I do however agree with the more general portion of your statement, > that a clean connection to a well configured server works quite nicely > even with 150ms of latency between the client and the server. I used > to be involved with a player group over in Texas and playing on their > servers was never an unpleasant experience (a good portion of mature > hilarity significantly helped however). > > > > > --Ozz > > > > -- Original message -- > > > > > -- > > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > > Yes I have those binds > > > Funnily with high rates, I rarely seem to get kills on people who have > > > disappeared off my screen. When I say rare, I mean, I have to wrack my > > > brain > > > to come up with an example, but it would be disingenous of me to say it > > > never happened. > > > I rarely have people also drag me back, usually its a dialuper or somebody > > > with constant > 100ms pings, which is to be expected with the netcode as > > > it > > > currently stands, but when a 50ms ping person does it to you 3 times in a > > > row, well they got booted and told to turn their interp on. > > > On the whole AWP through dbl doors thing, well, I have seen it being used > > > in a war on servers I don't have any control over, but suffice it to say, > > > as > > > somebody pointed out in a forum thread afterwards, if it was legitamate > > > skill, they should be representing their country at the highest levels of > > > CSS if it was something they could do consistently. > > > On 10/13/05, James Tucker wrote: > > > > > > > > On 10/13/05, Whisper wrote: > > > > > -- > > > > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > > > > There appears to be a bug/exploit at the moment that allows people to > > > > set > > > > > their cl_interpolate to 0 but then set their cl_interp higher and the > > > > server > > > > > still counts the cl_interp value. > > > > > > > > I know. > > > > > > > > > Those are the guys who keep shooting you after you have run around a > > > > corner > > > > > reloaded and then you die :) > > > > > > > > Interesting suggestion, given that I do lock cl_interpolate when I am > > > > concerned and this does not change what I describe. The stutter > > > > situation I describe actually occurs more during my kills than my > > > > deaths. No wait, it happens on both, I just have reasonable KDR most > > > > of the time ;) > > > > > > > > > Its also how people are able to AWP from T spawn on dust2 and kill > > > > > with > > > > > regularity, CT's through the dbl doors as they jump across. > > > > > > > > I've been hit in this way less times than I have digits, several > > > > instances of which I know were un-cheated. > > > > > > > > > Hmm, I wonder if I've let the cat out of the bag there. > > > > > > > > N
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
On 10/14/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > Maybe the dev team can embed [into the engine] a semi-basic client-side > algorithm that auto-adjusts cl_interp based on latency and data rates? Would > that solve the problem? Glad to hear someone else suggest it. One has been built (outside of Valve that is) but it's not ready for public consumption yet (no idea how to avoid saving client cvars - don't want to upset the lusers). > > > --Ozz > > -- Original message -- > > > -- > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > I have played around with cl_interp more than most people and I can tell you > > it makes very little difference if you set it to 0.1 (default) or 0.01 or > > any number in between based on calculating any number of variables you would > > care to name to base your cl_interp on. > > Besides 0.01 is not going to do you much good unless you are on a server > > with a 10ms ping or you are getting 100 updates a second, or however else > > you wish to base the rationale for setting cl_interp to a certain value. > > On 10/13/05, Suck. wrote: > > > > > > Actually, the most fair setting is: > > > cl_interpolate 1; cl_interp .01 > > > > > > 1/.01 is the CAL standard that the CAL CSP cvar blocker plug-in enforces > > > (not that I'm a fan of the CSP, but ...). This eliminates virtually all > > > interp assistance and levels the playing field for everyone. > > > > > > Forcing everyone to 1/.1 to combat interp exploitation because it's > > > default > > > is like forcing everyone to cl_updaterate 20; cl_cmdrate 30 to combat rate > > > exploitation. It's screwing over the people who do use the best setting, > > > 1/.01, or in the case of rates, high rates such as 101/100. > > > > > > > > > -Grant. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Whisper > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:18 PM > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters > > > > > > BTW, if it was up to me, I'd force cl_interpolate 1 & cl_interp 0.1 on > > > Source for ALL players, I play with those settings and I get plenty of > > > kills > > > on pub servers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > -- > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please > > visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
On 10/14/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > sv_maxunlag 150 should help those effects. I have yet to experience a bad > game on a server where I ping over 100 (i usually ping 110-120 to these > distant servers) like CoJ and ESD (in germany). I am in Delaware -East Coast > USA- and as far as I know CoJ is out west somewhere (i.e. Cali). Either way, > I play with the default interp of .1 and I seem to play as well if not better > at times on these servers, without sacrificing any performance degredation > (like those past the corner shots) or video stutter. I run from 40-90 fps on > any given server no matter what as well. Almost correct, sadly, you missed the definition of sv_maxunlag. I've started a Source netcode document over at sourcewiki, but I started late last night, so it's only the defnitions section so far. I will probably steam some of whispers hard work to complete it, but this will be more from a client point of view, to teach end users. Either way, the definition is there, you will see it is in seconds, not ms. :) Naturally, you would get outstanding performance from having a maximum unlag time of 150 seconds, but at the same time, your score (and life) could be adjusted throughout the first two and half minutes of a round. > The maxunlag CVAR will prevent you (the broadband player within reasonable > distance @ 150 ms or better) from suffering the ill effects of high-pingers > to your game session. I wish it was a standard default value to be honest. > It would help bring everyone just oh-so-much-closer to a level playing field. It doesn't actually restrict anything, as it's a capping value. The defualt setting is 1, many league configs incorrectly suggest setting this to 0.5, which I have seen no gains from doing, even in scenarios where the average ping is <30 (my regular playing environments). I do however agree with the more general portion of your statement, that a clean connection to a well configured server works quite nicely even with 150ms of latency between the client and the server. I used to be involved with a player group over in Texas and playing on their servers was never an unpleasant experience (a good portion of mature hilarity significantly helped however). > > --Ozz > > -- Original message -- > > > -- > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > Yes I have those binds > > Funnily with high rates, I rarely seem to get kills on people who have > > disappeared off my screen. When I say rare, I mean, I have to wrack my brain > > to come up with an example, but it would be disingenous of me to say it > > never happened. > > I rarely have people also drag me back, usually its a dialuper or somebody > > with constant > 100ms pings, which is to be expected with the netcode as it > > currently stands, but when a 50ms ping person does it to you 3 times in a > > row, well they got booted and told to turn their interp on. > > On the whole AWP through dbl doors thing, well, I have seen it being used > > in a war on servers I don't have any control over, but suffice it to say, as > > somebody pointed out in a forum thread afterwards, if it was legitamate > > skill, they should be representing their country at the highest levels of > > CSS if it was something they could do consistently. > > On 10/13/05, James Tucker wrote: > > > > > > On 10/13/05, Whisper wrote: > > > > -- > > > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > > > There appears to be a bug/exploit at the moment that allows people to > > > set > > > > their cl_interpolate to 0 but then set their cl_interp higher and the > > > server > > > > still counts the cl_interp value. > > > > > > I know. > > > > > > > Those are the guys who keep shooting you after you have run around a > > > corner > > > > reloaded and then you die :) > > > > > > Interesting suggestion, given that I do lock cl_interpolate when I am > > > concerned and this does not change what I describe. The stutter > > > situation I describe actually occurs more during my kills than my > > > deaths. No wait, it happens on both, I just have reasonable KDR most > > > of the time ;) > > > > > > > Its also how people are able to AWP from T spawn on dust2 and kill with > > > > regularity, CT's through the dbl doors as they jump across. > > > > > > I've been hit in this way less times than I have digits, several > > > instances of which I know were un-cheated. > > > > > > > Hmm, I wonder if I've let the cat out of the bag there. > > > > > > Nope because I could search this mailbox for dust and AWP and see > > > several mails at least in which you have re-iterated this problem > > > description. > > > > > > Just out of curiosity, do you have binds that looks something like this: > > > > > > bind KEY ma_cexec_all cl_interpolate 1 > > > bind KEY ma_cexec_all cl_interp 0.1 > > > > > > ;-) :-p > > > > > > (Quick side/end note: there are vari
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Maybe the dev team can embed [into the engine] a semi-basic client-side algorithm that auto-adjusts cl_interp based on latency and data rates? Would that solve the problem? --Ozz -- Original message -- > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > I have played around with cl_interp more than most people and I can tell you > it makes very little difference if you set it to 0.1 (default) or 0.01 or > any number in between based on calculating any number of variables you would > care to name to base your cl_interp on. > Besides 0.01 is not going to do you much good unless you are on a server > with a 10ms ping or you are getting 100 updates a second, or however else > you wish to base the rationale for setting cl_interp to a certain value. > On 10/13/05, Suck. wrote: > > > > Actually, the most fair setting is: > > cl_interpolate 1; cl_interp .01 > > > > 1/.01 is the CAL standard that the CAL CSP cvar blocker plug-in enforces > > (not that I'm a fan of the CSP, but ...). This eliminates virtually all > > interp assistance and levels the playing field for everyone. > > > > Forcing everyone to 1/.1 to combat interp exploitation because it's > > default > > is like forcing everyone to cl_updaterate 20; cl_cmdrate 30 to combat rate > > exploitation. It's screwing over the people who do use the best setting, > > 1/.01, or in the case of rates, high rates such as 101/100. > > > > > > -Grant. > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Whisper > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:18 PM > > Subject: Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters > > > > BTW, if it was up to me, I'd force cl_interpolate 1 & cl_interp 0.1 on > > Source for ALL players, I play with those settings and I get plenty of > > kills > > on pub servers. > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] sv_maxunlag 150 should help those effects. I have yet to experience a bad game on a server where I ping over 100 (i usually ping 110-120 to these distant servers) like CoJ and ESD (in germany). I am in Delaware -East Coast USA- and as far as I know CoJ is out west somewhere (i.e. Cali). Either way, I play with the default interp of .1 and I seem to play as well if not better at times on these servers, without sacrificing any performance degredation (like those past the corner shots) or video stutter. I run from 40-90 fps on any given server no matter what as well. The maxunlag CVAR will prevent you (the broadband player within reasonable distance @ 150 ms or better) from suffering the ill effects of high-pingers to your game session. I wish it was a standard default value to be honest. It would help bring everyone just oh-so-much-closer to a level playing field. --Ozz -- Original message -- > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Yes I have those binds > Funnily with high rates, I rarely seem to get kills on people who have > disappeared off my screen. When I say rare, I mean, I have to wrack my brain > to come up with an example, but it would be disingenous of me to say it > never happened. > I rarely have people also drag me back, usually its a dialuper or somebody > with constant > 100ms pings, which is to be expected with the netcode as it > currently stands, but when a 50ms ping person does it to you 3 times in a > row, well they got booted and told to turn their interp on. > On the whole AWP through dbl doors thing, well, I have seen it being used > in a war on servers I don't have any control over, but suffice it to say, as > somebody pointed out in a forum thread afterwards, if it was legitamate > skill, they should be representing their country at the highest levels of > CSS if it was something they could do consistently. > On 10/13/05, James Tucker wrote: > > > > On 10/13/05, Whisper wrote: > > > -- > > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > > There appears to be a bug/exploit at the moment that allows people to > > set > > > their cl_interpolate to 0 but then set their cl_interp higher and the > > server > > > still counts the cl_interp value. > > > > I know. > > > > > Those are the guys who keep shooting you after you have run around a > > corner > > > reloaded and then you die :) > > > > Interesting suggestion, given that I do lock cl_interpolate when I am > > concerned and this does not change what I describe. The stutter > > situation I describe actually occurs more during my kills than my > > deaths. No wait, it happens on both, I just have reasonable KDR most > > of the time ;) > > > > > Its also how people are able to AWP from T spawn on dust2 and kill with > > > regularity, CT's through the dbl doors as they jump across. > > > > I've been hit in this way less times than I have digits, several > > instances of which I know were un-cheated. > > > > > Hmm, I wonder if I've let the cat out of the bag there. > > > > Nope because I could search this mailbox for dust and AWP and see > > several mails at least in which you have re-iterated this problem > > description. > > > > Just out of curiosity, do you have binds that looks something like this: > > > > bind KEY ma_cexec_all cl_interpolate 1 > > bind KEY ma_cexec_all cl_interp 0.1 > > > > ;-) :-p > > > > (Quick side/end note: there are various systems that allow you to send > > automated rcon commands. From there you can run the above quite > > easily, and regularly, with a small penalty.) > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Does anyone remember the wwcl config check/lock And if so, does anyone here know of a way to implement this into a Source mod?? i.e. Day of Defeat (to be specific ;) ). This is your answer to the cl_interpolate, cl_interp and cl_predict exploits. Personally (and I made this suggestion to Valve, no answer go figure) they should make cl_predict and cl_interpolate 'cheat only' cvars. We'll see. James-- I like your detailed explanations. GJ. --Ozz -- Original message -- > On 10/13/05, Whisper wrote: > > -- > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > There appears to be a bug/exploit at the moment that allows people to set > > their cl_interpolate to 0 but then set their cl_interp higher and the server > > still counts the cl_interp value. > > I know. > > > Those are the guys who keep shooting you after you have run around a corner > > reloaded and then you die :) > > Interesting suggestion, given that I do lock cl_interpolate when I am > concerned and this does not change what I describe. The stutter > situation I describe actually occurs more during my kills than my > deaths. No wait, it happens on both, I just have reasonable KDR most > of the time ;) > > > Its also how people are able to AWP from T spawn on dust2 and kill with > > regularity, CT's through the dbl doors as they jump across. > > I've been hit in this way less times than I have digits, several > instances of which I know were un-cheated. > > > Hmm, I wonder if I've let the cat out of the bag there. > > Nope because I could search this mailbox for dust and AWP and see > several mails at least in which you have re-iterated this problem > description. > > Just out of curiosity, do you have binds that looks something like this: > > bind KEY ma_cexec_all cl_interpolate 1 > bind KEY ma_cexec_all cl_interp 0.1 > > ;-) :-p > > (Quick side/end note: there are various systems that allow you to send > automated rcon commands. From there you can run the above quite > easily, and regularly, with a small penalty.) > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
Yes I have to agree with whisper, unless you are actually registering 100 packets per second in net_channels, you should have a greater cl_interp than 0.01. On 10/13/05, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > I have played around with cl_interp more than most people and I can tell you > it makes very little difference if you set it to 0.1 (default) or 0.01 or > any number in between based on calculating any number of variables you would > care to name to base your cl_interp on. > Besides 0.01 is not going to do you much good unless you are on a server > with a 10ms ping or you are getting 100 updates a second, or however else > you wish to base the rationale for setting cl_interp to a certain value. > On 10/13/05, Suck. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Actually, the most fair setting is: > > cl_interpolate 1; cl_interp .01 > > > > 1/.01 is the CAL standard that the CAL CSP cvar blocker plug-in enforces > > (not that I'm a fan of the CSP, but ...). This eliminates virtually all > > interp assistance and levels the playing field for everyone. > > > > Forcing everyone to 1/.1 to combat interp exploitation because it's > > default > > is like forcing everyone to cl_updaterate 20; cl_cmdrate 30 to combat rate > > exploitation. It's screwing over the people who do use the best setting, > > 1/.01, or in the case of rates, high rates such as 101/100. > > > > > > -Grant. > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Whisper > > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:18 PM > > Subject: Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters > > > > BTW, if it was up to me, I'd force cl_interpolate 1 & cl_interp 0.1 on > > Source for ALL players, I play with those settings and I get plenty of > > kills > > on pub servers. > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I have played around with cl_interp more than most people and I can tell you it makes very little difference if you set it to 0.1 (default) or 0.01 or any number in between based on calculating any number of variables you would care to name to base your cl_interp on. Besides 0.01 is not going to do you much good unless you are on a server with a 10ms ping or you are getting 100 updates a second, or however else you wish to base the rationale for setting cl_interp to a certain value. On 10/13/05, Suck. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Actually, the most fair setting is: > cl_interpolate 1; cl_interp .01 > > 1/.01 is the CAL standard that the CAL CSP cvar blocker plug-in enforces > (not that I'm a fan of the CSP, but ...). This eliminates virtually all > interp assistance and levels the playing field for everyone. > > Forcing everyone to 1/.1 to combat interp exploitation because it's > default > is like forcing everyone to cl_updaterate 20; cl_cmdrate 30 to combat rate > exploitation. It's screwing over the people who do use the best setting, > 1/.01, or in the case of rates, high rates such as 101/100. > > > -Grant. > > > > -Original Message----- > From: Whisper > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:18 PM > Subject: Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters > > BTW, if it was up to me, I'd force cl_interpolate 1 & cl_interp 0.1 on > Source for ALL players, I play with those settings and I get plenty of > kills > on pub servers. > > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
Actually, the most fair setting is: cl_interpolate 1; cl_interp .01 1/.01 is the CAL standard that the CAL CSP cvar blocker plug-in enforces (not that I'm a fan of the CSP, but ...). This eliminates virtually all interp assistance and levels the playing field for everyone. Forcing everyone to 1/.1 to combat interp exploitation because it's default is like forcing everyone to cl_updaterate 20; cl_cmdrate 30 to combat rate exploitation. It's screwing over the people who do use the best setting, 1/.01, or in the case of rates, high rates such as 101/100. -Grant. -Original Message- From: Whisper Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters BTW, if it was up to me, I'd force cl_interpolate 1 & cl_interp 0.1 on Source for ALL players, I play with those settings and I get plenty of kills on pub servers. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Yes I have those binds Funnily with high rates, I rarely seem to get kills on people who have disappeared off my screen. When I say rare, I mean, I have to wrack my brain to come up with an example, but it would be disingenous of me to say it never happened. I rarely have people also drag me back, usually its a dialuper or somebody with constant > 100ms pings, which is to be expected with the netcode as it currently stands, but when a 50ms ping person does it to you 3 times in a row, well they got booted and told to turn their interp on. On the whole AWP through dbl doors thing, well, I have seen it being used in a war on servers I don't have any control over, but suffice it to say, as somebody pointed out in a forum thread afterwards, if it was legitamate skill, they should be representing their country at the highest levels of CSS if it was something they could do consistently. On 10/13/05, James Tucker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 10/13/05, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > -- > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > There appears to be a bug/exploit at the moment that allows people to > set > > their cl_interpolate to 0 but then set their cl_interp higher and the > server > > still counts the cl_interp value. > > I know. > > > Those are the guys who keep shooting you after you have run around a > corner > > reloaded and then you die :) > > Interesting suggestion, given that I do lock cl_interpolate when I am > concerned and this does not change what I describe. The stutter > situation I describe actually occurs more during my kills than my > deaths. No wait, it happens on both, I just have reasonable KDR most > of the time ;) > > > Its also how people are able to AWP from T spawn on dust2 and kill with > > regularity, CT's through the dbl doors as they jump across. > > I've been hit in this way less times than I have digits, several > instances of which I know were un-cheated. > > > Hmm, I wonder if I've let the cat out of the bag there. > > Nope because I could search this mailbox for dust and AWP and see > several mails at least in which you have re-iterated this problem > description. > > Just out of curiosity, do you have binds that looks something like this: > > bind KEY ma_cexec_all cl_interpolate 1 > bind KEY ma_cexec_all cl_interp 0.1 > > ;-) :-p > > (Quick side/end note: there are various systems that allow you to send > automated rcon commands. From there you can run the above quite > easily, and regularly, with a small penalty.) > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
On 10/13/05, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > There appears to be a bug/exploit at the moment that allows people to set > their cl_interpolate to 0 but then set their cl_interp higher and the server > still counts the cl_interp value. I know. > Those are the guys who keep shooting you after you have run around a corner > reloaded and then you die :) Interesting suggestion, given that I do lock cl_interpolate when I am concerned and this does not change what I describe. The stutter situation I describe actually occurs more during my kills than my deaths. No wait, it happens on both, I just have reasonable KDR most of the time ;) > Its also how people are able to AWP from T spawn on dust2 and kill with > regularity, CT's through the dbl doors as they jump across. I've been hit in this way less times than I have digits, several instances of which I know were un-cheated. > Hmm, I wonder if I've let the cat out of the bag there. Nope because I could search this mailbox for dust and AWP and see several mails at least in which you have re-iterated this problem description. Just out of curiosity, do you have binds that looks something like this: bind KEY ma_cexec_all cl_interpolate 1 bind KEY ma_cexec_all cl_interp 0.1 ;-) :-p (Quick side/end note: there are various systems that allow you to send automated rcon commands. From there you can run the above quite easily, and regularly, with a small penalty.) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] There appears to be a bug/exploit at the moment that allows people to set their cl_interpolate to 0 but then set their cl_interp higher and the server still counts the cl_interp value. Those are the guys who keep shooting you after you have run around a corner reloaded and then you die :) Its also how people are able to AWP from T spawn on dust2 and kill with regularity, CT's through the dbl doors as they jump across. Hmm, I wonder if I've let the cat out of the bag there. I don't like watching things die 5 or 6 frames late, or regulating > over that time period. Changes to cl_interp are only as significant as > having a better or worse ping. Player A with cl_interp 0.08 and a ping > of 40ms is not dissimlar from player B with cl_interp 0.1 and a ping > of 20ms. command packets should arrive at the server at around the > same time. The source documentation suggests that cmd packet arrival > time is unimportant however, so it *shouldn't* matter provided that > sv_maxunlag is at a reasonable level. A min and max interp should be > available server side though I would say, as it should be in a common > range accross competing players. > > I get far more enjoyment out of the game when running cl_interp 0.05 > on a nearby server. model and gameworld "stutter" have unpleasant > effects on my ability to play properly. (too much quake). > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
On 10/13/05, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Well my point was, there are some what are in retrospect quite easy to > detect/block cheats out there. No, it looks easy, thats my point :) You are looking at it from a purely geometic point of view, but in fact, it's only robust within the confines of the engine (remember, game levels can vary immensely, as can their effects on a player) if you fix the problem from a player point of view. Example: portals leading to kicks due to rapid level traversal. What about teleports? ok, you code those in, but now can you tell me off the top of your head, does mani teleport like beetlesmod? and does that teleport like nemod? the answer isn't important, the principle is, you're looking at the wrong data to try and diagnose a cheat. thusly, it's not as easy as you think. > If a cheat has to normalise itself to the level where it plays as well as a > normal human, well it almost defeats the purpose of using cheats in the > first place. It's not about normalisation, it's about fooling the inference engine or logical rules. > The thought of offloading all cheat detection onto another server, was > something that was brought up in the HackCam forums (R.I.P. HackCam - We > never really knew you but you promised so much) was to off-load all cheat > detection processing onto a completely different server, thus allowing the > actual game server to process game data only and allow the cheat detection > server to deal with cheat detection / player data calculations since it is > not entirely necessary for cheat detection to occur in real-time, unlike the > actual game, as cheats can be dealt with at a later stage once you have > concrete proof that a player is in fact cheating. I was actually talking about stats processing, player data handling, log processing, the works, but ok. > BTW, if it was up to me, I'd force cl_interpolate 1 & cl_interp 0.1 on > Source for ALL players, I play with those settings and I get plenty of kills > on pub servers. I don't like watching things die 5 or 6 frames late, or regulating over that time period. Changes to cl_interp are only as significant as having a better or worse ping. Player A with cl_interp 0.08 and a ping of 40ms is not dissimlar from player B with cl_interp 0.1 and a ping of 20ms. command packets should arrive at the server at around the same time. The source documentation suggests that cmd packet arrival time is unimportant however, so it *shouldn't* matter provided that sv_maxunlag is at a reasonable level. A min and max interp should be available server side though I would say, as it should be in a common range accross competing players. I get far more enjoyment out of the game when running cl_interp 0.05 on a nearby server. model and gameworld "stutter" have unpleasant effects on my ability to play properly. (too much quake). ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Well my point was, there are some what are in retrospect quite easy to detect/block cheats out there. If a cheat has to normalise itself to the level where it plays as well as a normal human, well it almost defeats the purpose of using cheats in the first place. The thought of offloading all cheat detection onto another server, was something that was brought up in the HackCam forums (R.I.P. HackCam - We never really knew you but you promised so much) was to off-load all cheat detection processing onto a completely different server, thus allowing the actual game server to process game data only and allow the cheat detection server to deal with cheat detection / player data calculations since it is not entirely necessary for cheat detection to occur in real-time, unlike the actual game, as cheats can be dealt with at a later stage once you have concrete proof that a player is in fact cheating. BTW, if it was up to me, I'd force cl_interpolate 1 & cl_interp 0.1 on Source for ALL players, I play with those settings and I get plenty of kills on pub servers. On 10/13/05, James Tucker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > even if you did try to track that, anyone with a knowledge of > animation can extract one of the many "naturalising" algorithms to get > smooth and "human-esque" movement, at least in terms of bell-curve > distributions (the fundamental being, how random is a human? ;-). this > will increase processing a bit, but is not necessary currently due to > the lack of things like "hack cam" existing/being in use. > > The next level is someone reading out the entire level data, running a > virtual system wiht another copy of the game, processing all netcode > (which is essentially plain, as it has to be due to bandwidth issues) > which can then generate properly calibrated input via a virtual > keyboard+mouse. Latency control for this kind of system is > particularly easy in Source due to the fact that you can change > cl_interp inline. > > On 10/6/05, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > -- > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > I think a major problem is, there are no clear cut examples of what > cheats > > look like in first person when viewing and demoing them > > eg. This is the XQZ Aimbot > > This is HLH No Recoil > > This is a good example of a wallhack > > etc etc > > We have seen a no-recoil cheat that does show up unless you slow the > demo > > down to 20%, at which point it becomes self-evident that some automatic > > recoil control is being used since it not humanely possible to do what > this > > cheat demonstrates. > > But unless you show people, this is what it is, this is what it looks > like, > > this is what to look for, then most people will remain entirely ignorant > and > > will not be able to pick a cheat from a good player, unless its > blatantly > > obvious, and I mean blatantly obivous when I say, something likes speed > hack > > where the guy is in the opposition spawn 5 seconds after respawn, not > the > > "he got 10 headshots in a row, he must be cheating" obvious. > > If anybody has such a repository of knowledge, it would be a great > addition > > to server administrator and CS players every where anti-cheat > repertoire. > > Cheers > > -- > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
even if you did try to track that, anyone with a knowledge of animation can extract one of the many "naturalising" algorithms to get smooth and "human-esque" movement, at least in terms of bell-curve distributions (the fundamental being, how random is a human? ;-). this will increase processing a bit, but is not necessary currently due to the lack of things like "hack cam" existing/being in use. The next level is someone reading out the entire level data, running a virtual system wiht another copy of the game, processing all netcode (which is essentially plain, as it has to be due to bandwidth issues) which can then generate properly calibrated input via a virtual keyboard+mouse. Latency control for this kind of system is particularly easy in Source due to the fact that you can change cl_interp inline. On 10/6/05, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > I think a major problem is, there are no clear cut examples of what cheats > look like in first person when viewing and demoing them > eg. This is the XQZ Aimbot > This is HLH No Recoil > This is a good example of a wallhack > etc etc > We have seen a no-recoil cheat that does show up unless you slow the demo > down to 20%, at which point it becomes self-evident that some automatic > recoil control is being used since it not humanely possible to do what this > cheat demonstrates. > But unless you show people, this is what it is, this is what it looks like, > this is what to look for, then most people will remain entirely ignorant and > will not be able to pick a cheat from a good player, unless its blatantly > obvious, and I mean blatantly obivous when I say, something likes speed hack > where the guy is in the opposition spawn 5 seconds after respawn, not the > "he got 10 headshots in a row, he must be cheating" obvious. > If anybody has such a repository of knowledge, it would be a great addition > to server administrator and CS players every where anti-cheat repertoire. > Cheers > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Now i can understand that leagues aren't fair sometimes but i've been to the CPL and even QUAKECON. You will be surprised how some people think others hack. I thought this with dod and cs for the longest time but wow i've seen them play in a real LAN and some people are just amazing. As for CAL, being a former league admin from a lesser known league, cough UGL, i've known that CAL gets there admins from 2 sources. 1. From other leagues 2. From active teams in CAL-M and higher. And when i mean active, i mean people thats been playing for a few years for cal and dont give problems. On 9/28/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ya so go to BF2 where "Sgt MaxPower" is in the top tem globally. > "Max Power" is the current lead cheat author and happens to be one of > the CAL League Admins. > Most cheat authors are in the top ranks of CAL in case that gives you a > clue. > > cheat talk is useless. > Playing in league matches is also useless. > > Play for fun, not for glory. Better that way. > > > Original Message > > Subject: Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Date: Wed, September 28, 2005 1:34 pm > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > -- > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > Whatever , cs is done , finito > > -- > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I think a major problem is, there are no clear cut examples of what cheats look like in first person when viewing and demoing them eg. This is the XQZ Aimbot This is HLH No Recoil This is a good example of a wallhack etc etc We have seen a no-recoil cheat that does show up unless you slow the demo down to 20%, at which point it becomes self-evident that some automatic recoil control is being used since it not humanely possible to do what this cheat demonstrates. But unless you show people, this is what it is, this is what it looks like, this is what to look for, then most people will remain entirely ignorant and will not be able to pick a cheat from a good player, unless its blatantly obvious, and I mean blatantly obivous when I say, something likes speed hack where the guy is in the opposition spawn 5 seconds after respawn, not the "he got 10 headshots in a row, he must be cheating" obvious. If anybody has such a repository of knowledge, it would be a great addition to server administrator and CS players every where anti-cheat repertoire. Cheers -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
Brian touched on a couple of very good points. It's essential that you take it upon yourself to stay current on anti-cheat tools. Something else I've found helpful is to educate myself on what cheats are out there and what their capabilities are. Knowing what to look for is important. The meat of this post is to address admins, though, for which Brian made a couple of good points; actually, the second quote is a corollary of the first. Admins are central in keeping the number of cheaters and exploiters at a minimum. There are three aspects to this: 1) The first, and possibly the most important, is an admin staff that is skilled in detecting cheaters and differentiating between very high caliber players and cheaters. 2) The second is to deal with cheaters quickly. Cheaters will always exist, and every public server will see a few from time to time, no matter how well admin'd. When this happens, it's crucial to have an admin either in-game or immediately available (such as in IRC). 3) Finally, the third partially flows from the first two. Over a period of time, good servers will build up a base of regulars, some of whom will be excellent candidates for admin. Also, servers develop reputations. Our server caters to very high caliber players, but is a pub, not a clan server. We have an excellent reputation as having a strong admin presence with extremely level-headed and skilled admins, something we pride ourselves upon. While it's true that many hackers skip around, servers do develop the opposite reputation, and they become targets and frequent hangouts for hackers. I'm not going to argue about 1.6, but in Source, if you can build up a good reputation and a strong admin staff, the level of hackers should be very low. The vast majority of our bans result from TKers or racists. -Original Message- From: Brian M Frain (eternal) Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters There are a myriad of responses we could throw at you 2: is it possible there are not as many cheaters as you think? -Original Message- From: Brian M Frain (eternal) Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:37 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters One of the biggest problems I ran into as a lead admin for a gaming company was the admins themselves. Any time a player came in showing any amount of exceptional skill it was decided he must be cheating. -Grant. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
Prior to VAC2 beta I saw tons of cheaters...and banned lots too. Since then I havent seen any...well the odd one or two, but they are using hlh and Mani Plugin takes care of them pretty quick. Dagok - Original Message - From: "Brian M Frain (eternal)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 1:36 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] One of the biggest problems I ran into as a lead admin for a gaming company was the admins themselves. Any time a player came in showing any amount of exceptional skill it was decided he must be cheating. This was despite having multiple anti cheat measures I spent hours researching and updating constantly. Then one day the admins started complaining that there was no longer a challenge on the server, I replied "that is because anytime someone comes in better than you guys they get banned" needless to say that practice stopped. Now, I am not saying that is the case here or in the big cs:s picture but I think it merits some thought. Since this mailing list is really for servers and help with servers (and this thread doesn't belong here) I will post some relevant content. Steambans: plug in for source/non servers, compares players steam ids to a global database of cheaters and bans if player is in the database. Requires no work by admins other than installation. http://www.steambans.com/ Autoban: another automated server plug in, it has anti wallhack and anti antiflash features as well as an aimbot tracking tool. Be warned some people have issues with this and it is in beta. * Bans right away, no manual intervention necessary * Server-side only plugin, nothing to run or install on the client * Aimbot detection * Wallhacking prevention * Speedhack detection * No-recoil and low-recoil detection * No-spread and low-spread detection * No-flash prevention * Completely configurable http://www.wravens-nest.com/ Vac2: we know what this is. Beetlesmod: I am not sure that the anti cheat portion of the server plug in is even updated anymore but it will at least catch people who get the older versions and can't hurt. http://www.beetlesmod.com/forums/ If anyone knows of any other anti-cheat tools for source I would love to hear about them. Maybe we have to react to the cheaters and as such it may seem as if they are winning, but don't lay down and die for them! On 9/29/05, Dan Stevens (IAmAI) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I've being playing CS:S pretty much since it was released, and I've rarely ever seen cheats. Perhaps I never notice them or may as an admin they're easier to spot (I'm only a player). -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] One of the biggest problems I ran into as a lead admin for a gaming company was the admins themselves. Any time a player came in showing any amount of exceptional skill it was decided he must be cheating. This was despite having multiple anti cheat measures I spent hours researching and updating constantly. Then one day the admins started complaining that there was no longer a challenge on the server, I replied "that is because anytime someone comes in better than you guys they get banned" needless to say that practice stopped. Now, I am not saying that is the case here or in the big cs:s picture but I think it merits some thought. Since this mailing list is really for servers and help with servers (and this thread doesn't belong here) I will post some relevant content. Steambans: plug in for source/non servers, compares players steam ids to a global database of cheaters and bans if player is in the database. Requires no work by admins other than installation. http://www.steambans.com/ Autoban: another automated server plug in, it has anti wallhack and anti antiflash features as well as an aimbot tracking tool. Be warned some people have issues with this and it is in beta. * Bans right away, no manual intervention necessary * Server-side only plugin, nothing to run or install on the client * Aimbot detection * Wallhacking prevention * Speedhack detection * No-recoil and low-recoil detection * No-spread and low-spread detection * No-flash prevention * Completely configurable http://www.wravens-nest.com/ Vac2: we know what this is. Beetlesmod: I am not sure that the anti cheat portion of the server plug in is even updated anymore but it will at least catch people who get the older versions and can't hurt. http://www.beetlesmod.com/forums/ If anyone knows of any other anti-cheat tools for source I would love to hear about them. Maybe we have to react to the cheaters and as such it may seem as if they are winning, but don't lay down and die for them! On 9/29/05, Dan Stevens (IAmAI) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > I've being playing CS:S pretty much since it was released, and I've rarely > ever seen cheats. Perhaps I never notice them or may as an admin they're > easier to spot (I'm only a player). > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I've being playing CS:S pretty much since it was released, and I've rarely ever seen cheats. Perhaps I never notice them or may as an admin they're easier to spot (I'm only a player). -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I thought CS:S was clear of cheats, and for a time it appeared it was. Now I am starting to see them again, you know, the shaky screen no-spread hack that conclusive proof of a cheat. As I've said before, it was good while it lasted. On 9/29/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Contact me offlistI'll bite, supply the hosting, central servers for > the > startup, and experience in the game since beta 2. We've pretty much closed > most of our CS hosting for that very reason. "There is no safe place left > to > play". Many have tried what you suggest, even with their own client > applications to limit the very issue at hand. All have failed. If you've > got > something unique to offer, as I see you seem to have, then I'll be the > first > of many admins to step up to the plate and try to save this gaming > platform > before it's completely ruined by the cheating players, immature kids > flocking servers and the cold shoulder it's seen from the developers in > the > way of anti-cheat. There is only one way it would work. Dedicated admins > of > servers combining their experience in a venue where that experience has > teeth to not only bite the bad guys but to protect the innocent. Form that > email and we'll roll with it. Maybe make a small list of significant > parties > interested that have stayed in this list all these years and just maybe > breathe a few more breaths into a dying game and go one last round before > the horse final falls down. Have some fun on the way, make some great > friends and all look like heros to some and villains to others. What > better > way to leave your mark in the annuls of Half-Life history. :D > > Ray S. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zachary Doherty > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:15 PM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters > > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > It's time for someone to start another CS(or CSS) league. I think we, most > of us being admins, should be leading the charge( I would be happy to > donate > my server to this cause); CAL is turning corrupt, therefore, something new > is needed. Perhaps the CSL(Counter Strike League) or something where we, > the > admins, are the admins. I would like to have a system that is not based on > numbers from PsycoStats or some other stats program, but on an admin's > reccomendation. Maybe we could have the servers "sponcor" a player (ie: > Yrach.com:[J-Mod]Nali) or something, but just keep trust in server admins > and not in CAL's hacker dominated staff. > > GGH4X > > -- > Sincerely, > Zachary Doherty > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
Contact me offlistI'll bite, supply the hosting, central servers for the startup, and experience in the game since beta 2. We've pretty much closed most of our CS hosting for that very reason. "There is no safe place left to play". Many have tried what you suggest, even with their own client applications to limit the very issue at hand. All have failed. If you've got something unique to offer, as I see you seem to have, then I'll be the first of many admins to step up to the plate and try to save this gaming platform before it's completely ruined by the cheating players, immature kids flocking servers and the cold shoulder it's seen from the developers in the way of anti-cheat. There is only one way it would work. Dedicated admins of servers combining their experience in a venue where that experience has teeth to not only bite the bad guys but to protect the innocent. Form that email and we'll roll with it. Maybe make a small list of significant parties interested that have stayed in this list all these years and just maybe breathe a few more breaths into a dying game and go one last round before the horse final falls down. Have some fun on the way, make some great friends and all look like heros to some and villains to others. What better way to leave your mark in the annuls of Half-Life history. :D Ray S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zachary Doherty Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:15 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] It's time for someone to start another CS(or CSS) league. I think we, most of us being admins, should be leading the charge( I would be happy to donate my server to this cause); CAL is turning corrupt, therefore, something new is needed. Perhaps the CSL(Counter Strike League) or something where we, the admins, are the admins. I would like to have a system that is not based on numbers from PsycoStats or some other stats program, but on an admin's reccomendation. Maybe we could have the servers "sponcor" a player (ie: Yrach.com:[J-Mod]Nali) or something, but just keep trust in server admins and not in CAL's hacker dominated staff. GGH4X -- Sincerely, Zachary Doherty -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] It's time for someone to start another CS(or CSS) league. I think we, most of us being admins, should be leading the charge( I would be happy to donate my server to this cause); CAL is turning corrupt, therefore, something new is needed. Perhaps the CSL(Counter Strike League) or something where we, the admins, are the admins. I would like to have a system that is not based on numbers from PsycoStats or some other stats program, but on an admin's reccomendation. Maybe we could have the servers "sponcor" a player (ie: Yrach.com:[J-Mod]Nali) or something, but just keep trust in server admins and not in CAL's hacker dominated staff. GGH4X -- Sincerely, Zachary Doherty -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] very ture -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
Ya so go to BF2 where "Sgt MaxPower" is in the top tem globally. "Max Power" is the current lead cheat author and happens to be one of the CAL League Admins. Most cheat authors are in the top ranks of CAL in case that gives you a clue. cheat talk is useless. Playing in league matches is also useless. Play for fun, not for glory. Better that way. > Original Message ---- > Subject: Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Wed, September 28, 2005 1:34 pm > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Whatever , cs is done , finito > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Whatever , cs is done , finito -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
It's all about the admins, and clearly you had poor ones. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
Its called delayed banning. -- John -- Original Message Follows From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:29:53 EDT -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I have had cs servers for 4 yrs and now i am taking them down do to constant cheating and constant bugs. allways someone hacking in someway especially in cal matches. so i decided enough is enough and took my servers down vac2 is terrible hlh hack was getting around vac2 right away . Just a constant battle thats never gonna end -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] There are a myriad of responses we could throw at you 1: this isn't the place for info that has nothing to do with anything. 2: is it possible there are not as many cheaters as you think? 3: Sorry bout your troubles but there are other means of policing a server than Vac2. 4: etc. 5: etc. I am sorry for your troubles but the bottom line is this has nothing at all to do with this mailing list and there is enough crap coming through it already. I run two cs:s servers and we have little to no cheating using a mixture of beetlesmod, vac2, steambans, csp and anything else I can get my hands on. I also think sometimes people forget vac2 is not an instant ban, I believe it says it can take up to 2 weeks to ban someone, so if you get a cheater on your server you are stuck with him. That is why you use the other tools to do the instant ban and let vac2 take care of the long run. On 9/28/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > I have had cs servers for 4 yrs and now i am taking them down do to > constant cheating and constant bugs. allways someone hacking in someway > especially > in cal matches. so i decided enough is enough and took my servers down > vac2 > is terrible hlh hack was getting around vac2 right away . Just a constant > battle thats never gonna end > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] cs:s is full of cheaters
Congratulations on realising something everyone else did about CS1.3 Really, cheaters are always one step ahead, they'll never be beaten, you just need good admins and to know what to look for. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I have had cs servers for 4 yrs and now i am taking them down do to constant cheating and constant bugs. allways someone hacking in someway especially in cal matches. so i decided enough is enough and took my servers down vac2 is terrible hlh hack was getting around vac2 right away . Just a constant battle thats never gonna end -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
