Re: [hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching

[Essay Tew Phaun]

Eh, I wasn't really saying you can't tell the difference between when one
crashes or another doesn't. I said it to bring to light how often they both
crash. We've switched hosts and that problem went away. Thanks for the help
though.

On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 11:38 AM, dan  wrote:

> On 18/01/2013 21:22, Essay Tew Phaun wrote:
>
>> I just think it's pathetic that you can't even tell anymore what is at
>> fault.Is it the clients? Is it the servers? Who knows.
>>
>
> You can tell whether it's a server that's crashing or a client that's
> crashing.
>
> So it's not really relevant for this thread.
>
> You could have found out the cause of your issue in the other thread too
> had you
> wanted to.
>
> The way to do it is to eliminate things. So, for example, is it a specific
> map? How to find out? Try different maps. Is it the client or the server?
> Run the game without a server (i.e a listen server) then if your problem
> happens, it happens on that one computer. Or try different servers. If you
> can, try different computers, renaming your config so it uses the defaults
> etc etc.
>
> For client things you have lots to try, different drivers, configs and so
> on.
>
> Read Sherlock Holmes. Once you've eliminated stuff it can't be, you get
> left with what it must be. You can then make some meaningful noises that
> would help someone recreate it if you're sure it's a bug in the game.
>
> But, if it's the client I would say use a different group. Why?
>
> 1. Because no one here knows anything special to help you. The group
> doesn't contain any existing threads that will help you either.
> 2. People are more likely to moan about this group being for server issues
> 3. If you find a group you may find people with the same problem and
> people without a problem at all. Which will help you spot patterns.
> 4. If it's the client you need to post machine specs and driver versions
> and try different ones and so on and so on.
> In a different group with lots of people that play TF2 someone will say "I
> have a C2D E8400 and a Pomegranate 5462 high overhead cam fuel injected
> speedy Mark 5 Pan European Hogwash PCIe series graphics card and I use
> windows 7 and the game runs fine for me" - so you can eliminate things that
> just won't get eliminated if you try to solve the client problem by posting
> here.
>
> Perhaps then you will find something that Valve have broken (like this
> thread suggests is happening elsewhere) but, given the symptoms you
> described a while back unless you have some esoteric hardware I'd say the
> problem is most likely not the game. But I'll happily be proven wrong.
>
> --
> Dan
>
>
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Re: [hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching

[dan]

On 18/01/2013 21:22, Essay Tew Phaun wrote:

I just think it's pathetic that you can't even tell anymore what is at
fault.Is it the clients? Is it the servers? Who knows.


You can tell whether it's a server that's crashing or a client that's 
crashing.


So it's not really relevant for this thread.

You could have found out the cause of your issue in the other thread too 
had you

wanted to.

The way to do it is to eliminate things. So, for example, is it a 
specific map? How to find out? Try different maps. Is it the client or 
the server? Run the game without a server (i.e a listen server) then if 
your problem happens, it happens on that one computer. Or try different 
servers. If you can, try different computers, renaming your config so it 
uses the defaults etc etc.


For client things you have lots to try, different drivers, configs and 
so on.


Read Sherlock Holmes. Once you've eliminated stuff it can't be, you get 
left with what it must be. You can then make some meaningful noises that 
would help someone recreate it if you're sure it's a bug in the game.


But, if it's the client I would say use a different group. Why?

1. Because no one here knows anything special to help you. The group 
doesn't contain any existing threads that will help you either.

2. People are more likely to moan about this group being for server issues
3. If you find a group you may find people with the same problem and 
people without a problem at all. Which will help you spot patterns.
4. If it's the client you need to post machine specs and driver versions 
and try different ones and so on and so on.
In a different group with lots of people that play TF2 someone will say 
"I have a C2D E8400 and a Pomegranate 5462 high overhead cam fuel 
injected speedy Mark 5 Pan European Hogwash PCIe series graphics card 
and I use windows 7 and the game runs fine for me" - so you can 
eliminate things that just won't get eliminated if you try to solve the 
client problem by posting here.


Perhaps then you will find something that Valve have broken (like this 
thread suggests is happening elsewhere) but, given the symptoms you 
described a while back unless you have some esoteric hardware I'd say 
the problem is most likely not the game. But I'll happily be proven wrong.


--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching

[ics]

On CSS i've had cases where custom map used custom models and textures 
and if the model was re-textured and saved same name, they go in one map 
to the other if that map is next in line that also uses them. Red sofa's 
become black, file cabinets, shiny ones become also black if the 
previous map had them changed to black (good example de_nightfever -> 
cs_office).


So propably stringtable for particles isn't cleared either. Some maps 
break the server easier than others, i've located few that make the 
server crash later after that map has been on previously (de_crane, 
de_cross_strike).


-ics

19.1.2013 4:47, Kyle Sanderson kirjoitti:

Depending on the table, it's never cleared from map to map. I know in CS:S,
the particle stringtable is never cleared. Playing one custom map can
destroy another, for the lifetime of the server. At least this is what I
was told months ago, it stands to reason this bug is present in other games
as well.

Hope this helps,
Kyle.


On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Alex Kowald  wrote:


Can't do anything else but bump this. Everyone's servers suffer from this.
Is there any good reason Valve can't just increase the size?

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Essay Tew Phaun 
wrote:


I just think it's pathetic that you can't even tell anymore what is at
fault. Is it the clients? Is it the servers? Who knows. Both crash with
just about as much frequency and you can bet your bottom dollar that

every

big update will be replete with crashing issues. Steam going down,
Quickplay logging out, crashing on map changes, crashing on MOTD,

crashing

for being in spectator, crashing due to stringtable overflows, it never
ends.

*SPEND*
*SOME*
*TIME
OPTIMIZING
THE
SERVERS
AND
CLIENT
STOP
RELEASING
HUGE
UPDATES
UNTIL
THESE
ARE
STABLE*
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Re: [hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching

[Ross Bemrose]

Something's going wrong with the StringTable.  Even on the server side, 
adding too many items to the modelpercache, soundprecache, and 
downloadables stringtables will cause the server to crash by overflowing 
another unrelated Stringtable, usually ServerMapCycleMvM.  On a non-MvM 
server.


On 1/18/2013 10:08 PM, Saul Rennison wrote:

Don't all stringtables get cleared upon level change? I know they all get
created when the map is loaded, so it stands to reason that they are
automatically deleted on level shutdown.



Kind regards,
Saul Rennison


On 19 January 2013 02:47, Kyle Sanderson  wrote:


Depending on the table, it's never cleared from map to map. I know in CS:S,
the particle stringtable is never cleared. Playing one custom map can
destroy another, for the lifetime of the server. At least this is what I
was told months ago, it stands to reason this bug is present in other games
as well.

Hope this helps,
Kyle.


On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Alex Kowald  wrote:


Can't do anything else but bump this. Everyone's servers suffer from

this.

Is there any good reason Valve can't just increase the size?

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Essay Tew Phaun 
wrote:


I just think it's pathetic that you can't even tell anymore what is at
fault. Is it the clients? Is it the servers? Who knows. Both crash with
just about as much frequency and you can bet your bottom dollar that

every

big update will be replete with crashing issues. Steam going down,
Quickplay logging out, crashing on map changes, crashing on MOTD,

crashing

for being in spectator, crashing due to stringtable overflows, it never
ends.

*SPEND*
*SOME*
*TIME
OPTIMIZING
THE
SERVERS
AND
CLIENT
STOP
RELEASING
HUGE
UPDATES
UNTIL
THESE
ARE
STABLE*
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Re: [hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching

[Ryan Stecker]

This is the single biggest crasher on all my servers. I get around ~4
crashes a day due to stringtable overflows.

This negatively affects my stock MvM server. I feel in the future with the
addition of more items, the additional precaching will leave that server in
an entirely unreliable state of constant crashing.

*Please* do something about this, even if it requires breaking demo
compatibility (which seems to already be happening with the number of
people who tell me their demos are broken) or mountains of code to not
break said compatibility.

There are countless server operators out there that are also suffering from
this, and we could really all benefit from a fix.


On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:08 PM, Saul Rennison wrote:

> Don't all stringtables get cleared upon level change? I know they all get
> created when the map is loaded, so it stands to reason that they are
> automatically deleted on level shutdown.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Saul Rennison
>
>
> On 19 January 2013 02:47, Kyle Sanderson  wrote:
>
> > Depending on the table, it's never cleared from map to map. I know in
> CS:S,
> > the particle stringtable is never cleared. Playing one custom map can
> > destroy another, for the lifetime of the server. At least this is what I
> > was told months ago, it stands to reason this bug is present in other
> games
> > as well.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> > Kyle.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Alex Kowald  wrote:
> >
> > > Can't do anything else but bump this. Everyone's servers suffer from
> > this.
> > > Is there any good reason Valve can't just increase the size?
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Essay Tew Phaun 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I just think it's pathetic that you can't even tell anymore what is
> at
> > > > fault. Is it the clients? Is it the servers? Who knows. Both crash
> with
> > > > just about as much frequency and you can bet your bottom dollar that
> > > every
> > > > big update will be replete with crashing issues. Steam going down,
> > > > Quickplay logging out, crashing on map changes, crashing on MOTD,
> > > crashing
> > > > for being in spectator, crashing due to stringtable overflows, it
> never
> > > > ends.
> > > >
> > > > *SPEND*
> > > > *SOME*
> > > > *TIME
> > > > OPTIMIZING
> > > > THE
> > > > SERVERS
> > > > AND
> > > > CLIENT
> > > > STOP
> > > > RELEASING
> > > > HUGE
> > > > UPDATES
> > > > UNTIL
> > > > THESE
> > > > ARE
> > > > STABLE*
> > > > ___
> > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> archives,
> > > > please visit:
> > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
> > > >
> > > ___
> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > > please visit:
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> > >
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Re: [hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching

[Saul Rennison]

Don't all stringtables get cleared upon level change? I know they all get
created when the map is loaded, so it stands to reason that they are
automatically deleted on level shutdown.



Kind regards,
Saul Rennison


On 19 January 2013 02:47, Kyle Sanderson  wrote:

> Depending on the table, it's never cleared from map to map. I know in CS:S,
> the particle stringtable is never cleared. Playing one custom map can
> destroy another, for the lifetime of the server. At least this is what I
> was told months ago, it stands to reason this bug is present in other games
> as well.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Kyle.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Alex Kowald  wrote:
>
> > Can't do anything else but bump this. Everyone's servers suffer from
> this.
> > Is there any good reason Valve can't just increase the size?
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Essay Tew Phaun 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I just think it's pathetic that you can't even tell anymore what is at
> > > fault. Is it the clients? Is it the servers? Who knows. Both crash with
> > > just about as much frequency and you can bet your bottom dollar that
> > every
> > > big update will be replete with crashing issues. Steam going down,
> > > Quickplay logging out, crashing on map changes, crashing on MOTD,
> > crashing
> > > for being in spectator, crashing due to stringtable overflows, it never
> > > ends.
> > >
> > > *SPEND*
> > > *SOME*
> > > *TIME
> > > OPTIMIZING
> > > THE
> > > SERVERS
> > > AND
> > > CLIENT
> > > STOP
> > > RELEASING
> > > HUGE
> > > UPDATES
> > > UNTIL
> > > THESE
> > > ARE
> > > STABLE*
> > > ___
> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > > please visit:
> > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
> > >
> > ___
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> > please visit:
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> >
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Re: [hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching

[Kyle Sanderson]

Depending on the table, it's never cleared from map to map. I know in CS:S,
the particle stringtable is never cleared. Playing one custom map can
destroy another, for the lifetime of the server. At least this is what I
was told months ago, it stands to reason this bug is present in other games
as well.

Hope this helps,
Kyle.


On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Alex Kowald  wrote:

> Can't do anything else but bump this. Everyone's servers suffer from this.
> Is there any good reason Valve can't just increase the size?
>
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Essay Tew Phaun 
> wrote:
>
> > I just think it's pathetic that you can't even tell anymore what is at
> > fault. Is it the clients? Is it the servers? Who knows. Both crash with
> > just about as much frequency and you can bet your bottom dollar that
> every
> > big update will be replete with crashing issues. Steam going down,
> > Quickplay logging out, crashing on map changes, crashing on MOTD,
> crashing
> > for being in spectator, crashing due to stringtable overflows, it never
> > ends.
> >
> > *SPEND*
> > *SOME*
> > *TIME
> > OPTIMIZING
> > THE
> > SERVERS
> > AND
> > CLIENT
> > STOP
> > RELEASING
> > HUGE
> > UPDATES
> > UNTIL
> > THESE
> > ARE
> > STABLE*
> > ___
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > please visit:
> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
> >
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Re: [hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching

[Alex Kowald]

Can't do anything else but bump this. Everyone's servers suffer from this.
Is there any good reason Valve can't just increase the size?

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Essay Tew Phaun  wrote:

> I just think it's pathetic that you can't even tell anymore what is at
> fault. Is it the clients? Is it the servers? Who knows. Both crash with
> just about as much frequency and you can bet your bottom dollar that every
> big update will be replete with crashing issues. Steam going down,
> Quickplay logging out, crashing on map changes, crashing on MOTD, crashing
> for being in spectator, crashing due to stringtable overflows, it never
> ends.
>
> *SPEND*
> *SOME*
> *TIME
> OPTIMIZING
> THE
> SERVERS
> AND
> CLIENT
> STOP
> RELEASING
> HUGE
> UPDATES
> UNTIL
> THESE
> ARE
> STABLE*
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
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Re: [hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching

[cmunroe]

 

Hmmm, I said this a few weeks ago and everyone got mad at me... 

On
, Essay Tew Phaun wrote: 

> I just think it's pathetic that you can't
even tell anymore what is at
> fault. Is it the clients? Is it the
servers? Who knows. Both crash with
> just about as much frequency and
you can bet your bottom dollar that every
> big update will be replete
with crashing issues. Steam going down,
> Quickplay logging out,
crashing on map changes, crashing on MOTD, crashing
> for being in
spectator, crashing due to stringtable overflows, it never
> ends.
> 
>
*SPEND*
> *SOME*
> *TIME
> OPTIMIZING
> THE
> SERVERS
> AND
> CLIENT
>
STOP
> RELEASING
> HUGE
> UPDATES
> UNTIL
> THESE
> ARE
> STABLE*
>
___
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your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
>
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux [1]




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Re: [hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching

[Essay Tew Phaun]

I just think it's pathetic that you can't even tell anymore what is at
fault. Is it the clients? Is it the servers? Who knows. Both crash with
just about as much frequency and you can bet your bottom dollar that every
big update will be replete with crashing issues. Steam going down,
Quickplay logging out, crashing on map changes, crashing on MOTD, crashing
for being in spectator, crashing due to stringtable overflows, it never
ends.

*SPEND*
*SOME*
*TIME
OPTIMIZING
THE
SERVERS
AND
CLIENT
STOP
RELEASING
HUGE
UPDATES
UNTIL
THESE
ARE
STABLE*
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[hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching

[Matt D .]

This issue has been raised many times now, each time it seems to be dismissed 
in one way or another, and yet servers everywhere are still experiencing these 
Stringtable crashes. Servers running custom maps and content are basically 
under siege. Stock maps and modes may work alright with the various 
improvements Valve has made, but don't think for a second that these errors 
have been eradicated. Even small amounts of custom content put servers at risk 
for Stringtable crashes, and running full 32 players on a custom map with 
plugins nowadays is akin to server suicide.
The crashes have been around for years now yes, but MvM has exponentially 
increased the frequency that they occur at. Yes we aren't forced to use custom 
content, sure it's not Valve's responsibility to accommodate us, but 
considering everything worked perfectly fine before the stupid robots showed 
up, it sucks pretty hard knowing that a lot of this game's modding potential 
has been destroyed by the fact that servers with custom content won't last more 
than 20 minutes before a crash.

I know there are other people out there that share my concerns, if you're 
experiencing these problems as well I encourage you to speak up in hopes that 
maybe TF2 can go back to being the modding paradise it used to be.

> From: hlds_linux-requ...@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: hlds_linux Digest, Vol 59, Issue 27
> To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 12:00:02 -0800
> 
> Send hlds_linux mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>1. Servers not coming up after a map change? (Essay Tew Phaun)
>2. L4D2 Update Released (hasser css)
>3. Re: L4D2 Update Released (Scipizoa)
>4. Re: L4D2 Update Released (hasser css)
>5. Re: L4D2 Update Released (Sachin Sud)
>6. Re: Servers not coming up after a map change? (Ken Bateman)
>7. Re: Servers not coming up after a map change? (Kyle Sanderson)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:16:24 -0500
> From: Essay Tew Phaun 
> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
>   
> Subject: [hlds_linux] Servers not coming up after a map change?
> Message-ID:
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> I'm having an issue where our servers are sometimes not accessible after a
> map change. The map changes, the server is still up but it does not respond
> in the server browser nor can you connect to it. It's not at 100% CPU
> either, it's not crashing at all or generating any logs.
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:33:46 -0500
> From: hasser css 
> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
>   ,Half-Life dedicated Win32 server
>   mailing list 
> Subject: [hlds_linux] L4D2 Update Released
> Message-ID:
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> No one sends out these emails anymore for L4D2 but yeah. Update is
> out, go grab it.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:36:25 -0500 (EST)
> From: Scipizoa  
> To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] L4D2 Update Released
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> is anyone having trouble with their servers after the updates, ? like? 
> crashing or anything
> 
> From: hasser css 
> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list 
> , Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing 
> list 
> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 10:33 pm
> Subject: [hlds_linux] L4D2 Update Released
> 
> No one sends out these emails anymore for L4D2 but yeah. Update is
> 
> out, go grab it.
> 
> 
> 
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> --
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:42:03 -0500
> From: hasser css 
> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
>   
> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] L4D2 Update Released
> Message-ID:
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> I get this on launch, and no one seems to be joining my server (but
> the second part probably is because "official dedicated" is STILL the
> default option for server-finding instead of unmodded third-party
> dedicated servers. pretty lame in my