RE: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
Yes. And once they are banned by VAC2, they go out and buy another copy of the game. VAC2 is a revenue generating architecture for Valve. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bryan Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:13 AM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 Think of it this way. If a cheater is writing code and he wants to test it out to see if it is working or not. He joins a server and boom he is kicked for using a cheat? What has this done? It has just showed him what the Anti-cheat software is looking for and where he need to change his code. Trust me when I say these cheaters and hackers are not some dumb punk on the street corner. They are clever folks and they test the system constantly to find out what works and what doesn't. Some of your best anti-cheat programers are former cheaters themselves. Kicking them instantly upon the detection of a cheat gives them positive feedback on how well they wrote their code. In a sense instant kicks are helping the cheaters and hackers out. Crazy_One aprand wrote: > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 > Pro-active means acting in advance. While there might be SOME > pro-active > measures valve can take, by making sure there are no erors or exploits on > thier code, VAC needs to look for specific markers or files that need to > already exist, else how can they be found? As for the need of some > kind of > list m0gley: If you have a spyware program, and it never says it > caught any > spyware, how do you know it works? Would you keep such a program? No, we > need to see results. As for delayed banning: think of this Bryan, is it > better for a thief to be afraid he might be caught, or for him to > actually > GET CAUGHT IN THE ACT. If you saw a guy speeding, driving recklessly, > and he > was pulled over WHILE he was commiting the act, this would protect others > from his reckless actions. While cheating doesnt measure up in > importance, > still there is great satisfaction in knowing that the cheater got caught > when he committed the crime, not a week later. So what if he thinks he > got > away with it. Do you think being banned a week later will deter him from > cheating more than if it happens on his first experiance? Which would > deter > you more, getting caught the 1st time, every time, or being able to play > with your cheats a week or 2 before you get caught? Seems the latter > would > actually promote the idea "I can have fun for a week or 2 before that > stupid > VAC program gets me, its so lame!" Cheats arent detected when they first > come out anyway, so as to the feedback to the cheat coders, if its a week > after the cheat comes out (and that would be very quick, if VAC bans > as soon > as it learns of, codes for, updates for, or detects..still takes some > time, > reactive right?) or 2 weeks, if we "delay ban" I think the coders will > get > about the same feedback. >Now, as to the cost of coding vs opensource, as we all know in many > (not > all) cases when a company is producing a high level, well coded, well > tested > software with many coders, continuas updates, etc, they would like to get > paid, because thier product has high expectations to work, and they > have a > business and reputation that depends on it. Not to say some free programs > aren't fantastic and work as well, but percentage wise, and when dealing > with something we deem "very important", usually professionally coded > programs perform better. So if someone developed such a program, wouldn't > leagues, clans, communities that are serious about stopping cheaters > buy it, > as long as it wasn't too extravagantly priced? I would! If it worked. > Windows has security updates, but don't millions buy firewall, spam > protection, spyware programs, virus detection, even though there are free > versions of these? > Sorry for the long post again, but I really hate cheating, and I hate > thinking people cheat. I hate seeing people that are skilled called > cheaters, and I hate seeing people FLAUNTING their cheats in some servers > (speed hacks and spinning aimbots, ones that are no-brainers, but still > don't get caught WHILE THEIR BEING ARROGANT CHEATING ASSHOLES!). > 'nuff said > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
OK, as stated, VAC cant detect a cheat that hasnt allready been out, cause it didnt exist, unless its a bad cheat that uses old exploits, so if thier beta testing a cheat thats really new, it wont get them till the cheat is dissected by the vac coders and corrected for. And to hell with false sense of security, so we let a murderer kill a few more people even if we can stop him so when we stop him his spirit is crushed? How about, if every time you try to connect with a known cheat you get banned, and after 5-10 times maybe you'll get the message and give up! AND the client doesnt pay for anticheat usually , its the server side provider, someone whos making money from renting servers. If you have your own box and dont want the "good" anticheat, then by all means, dont buy it, its a free country, but me, if someone said, "Here, for 30-50$ you get a licience for 10 servers, or $200 for an unlimited licience" I'd get it, then make it an option when my clients rent servers. Alot of league players with private servers they scrim on would get it I bet, as well as better clans and CS communitys, especially if its a 1 time price and updates are free, like most software like this. I mean, if you purchase 1 instance of cs 1.6, you can put it on 1000 servers, so paying for an anticheat that works isnt a big deal, epecially if you pass it on to the customers that want it. - Original Message - From: "Dan E" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 12:35 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 Not only that, but it will lure them and anybody who they release their code to into a false sense of security. They use it, and then more and more use it, and then suddenly they all get banned. Sorta building up a userbase and then crushing it quickly :) It's a win-lose situation: you allow some people to get away with it for a while, but then they eventually get what they deserve. Another point is that people may be worried about using their hacks, because I know that at least for myself, I do not want to have to shell out more money for a game that I already purchased :P --- Bryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Think of it this way. If a cheater is writing code and he wants to test it out to see if it is working or not. He joins a server and boom he is kicked for using a cheat? What has this done? It has just showed him what the Anti-cheat software is looking for and where he need to change his code. Trust me when I say these cheaters and hackers are not some dumb punk on the street corner. They are clever folks and they test the system constantly to find out what works and what doesn't. Some of your best anti-cheat programers are former cheaters themselves. Kicking them instantly upon the detection of a cheat gives them positive feedback on how well they wrote their code. In a sense instant kicks are helping the cheaters and hackers out. Crazy_One aprand wrote: > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 > Pro-active means acting in advance. While there might be SOME > pro-active > measures valve can take, by making sure there are no erors or exploits on > thier code, VAC needs to look for specific markers or files that need to > already exist, else how can they be found? As for the need of some > kind of > list m0gley: If you have a spyware program, and it never says it > caught any > spyware, how do you know it works? Would you keep such a program? No, we > need to see results. As for delayed banning: think of this Bryan, is it > better for a thief to be afraid he might be caught, or for him to > actually > GET CAUGHT IN THE ACT. If you saw a guy speeding, driving recklessly, > and he > was pulled over WHILE he was commiting the act, this would protect others > from his reckless actions. While cheating doesnt measure up in > importance, > still there is great satisfaction in knowing that the cheater got caught > when he committed the crime, not a week later. So what if he thinks he > got > away with it. Do you think being banned a week later will deter him from > cheating more than if it happens on his first experiance? Which would > deter > you more, getting caught the 1st time, every time, or being able to play > with your cheats a week or 2 before you get caught? Seems the latter > would > actually promote the idea "I can have fun for a week or 2 before that > stupid > VAC program gets me, its so lame!" Cheats arent detected when they first > come out anyway, so as to the feedback to the cheat coders, if its a week > after the cheat comes out (and that would be very quick, if VAC bans > as soon > as it learns of, codes for, updates for, or detects..still takes some > time, > reactive right?) or 2 weeks, if we "delay ban" I think the coders will > get > about the same feedback. >Now
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
Not only that, but it will lure them and anybody who they release their code to into a false sense of security. They use it, and then more and more use it, and then suddenly they all get banned. Sorta building up a userbase and then crushing it quickly :) It's a win-lose situation: you allow some people to get away with it for a while, but then they eventually get what they deserve. Another point is that people may be worried about using their hacks, because I know that at least for myself, I do not want to have to shell out more money for a game that I already purchased :P --- Bryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Think of it this way. If a cheater is writing code > and he wants to test > it out to see if it is working or not. He joins a > server and boom he is > kicked for using a cheat? What has this done? It has > just showed him > what the Anti-cheat software is looking for and > where he need to change > his code. Trust me when I say these cheaters and > hackers are not some > dumb punk on the street corner. They are clever > folks and they test the > system constantly to find out what works and what > doesn't. Some of your > best anti-cheat programers are former cheaters > themselves. Kicking them > instantly upon the detection of a cheat gives them > positive feedback on > how well they wrote their code. In a sense instant > kicks are helping the > cheaters and hackers out. > > Crazy_One > > aprand wrote: > > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 > > Pro-active means acting in advance. While there > might be SOME > > pro-active > > measures valve can take, by making sure there are > no erors or exploits on > > thier code, VAC needs to look for specific markers > or files that need to > > already exist, else how can they be found? As for > the need of some > > kind of > > list m0gley: If you have a spyware program, and it > never says it > > caught any > > spyware, how do you know it works? Would you keep > such a program? No, we > > need to see results. As for delayed banning: think > of this Bryan, is it > > better for a thief to be afraid he might be > caught, or for him to > > actually > > GET CAUGHT IN THE ACT. If you saw a guy speeding, > driving recklessly, > > and he > > was pulled over WHILE he was commiting the act, > this would protect others > > from his reckless actions. While cheating doesnt > measure up in > > importance, > > still there is great satisfaction in knowing that > the cheater got caught > > when he committed the crime, not a week later. So > what if he thinks he > > got > > away with it. Do you think being banned a week > later will deter him from > > cheating more than if it happens on his first > experiance? Which would > > deter > > you more, getting caught the 1st time, every time, > or being able to play > > with your cheats a week or 2 before you get > caught? Seems the latter > > would > > actually promote the idea "I can have fun for a > week or 2 before that > > stupid > > VAC program gets me, its so lame!" Cheats arent > detected when they first > > come out anyway, so as to the feedback to the > cheat coders, if its a week > > after the cheat comes out (and that would be very > quick, if VAC bans > > as soon > > as it learns of, codes for, updates for, or > detects..still takes some > > time, > > reactive right?) or 2 weeks, if we "delay ban" I > think the coders will > > get > > about the same feedback. > >Now, as to the cost of coding vs opensource, as > we all know in many > > (not > > all) cases when a company is producing a high > level, well coded, well > > tested > > software with many coders, continuas updates, etc, > they would like to get > > paid, because thier product has high expectations > to work, and they > > have a > > business and reputation that depends on it. Not to > say some free programs > > aren't fantastic and work as well, but percentage > wise, and when dealing > > with something we deem "very important", usually > professionally coded > > programs perform better. So if someone developed > such a program, wouldn't > > leagues, clans, communities that are serious about > stopping cheaters > > buy it, > > as long as it wasn't too extravagantly priced? I > would! If it worked. > > Windows has security updates, but don't millions > buy firewall, spam > > protection, spyware programs, virus detection, > even though there are free > > versi
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
Think of it this way. If a cheater is writing code and he wants to test it out to see if it is working or not. He joins a server and boom he is kicked for using a cheat? What has this done? It has just showed him what the Anti-cheat software is looking for and where he need to change his code. Trust me when I say these cheaters and hackers are not some dumb punk on the street corner. They are clever folks and they test the system constantly to find out what works and what doesn't. Some of your best anti-cheat programers are former cheaters themselves. Kicking them instantly upon the detection of a cheat gives them positive feedback on how well they wrote their code. In a sense instant kicks are helping the cheaters and hackers out. Crazy_One aprand wrote: Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 Pro-active means acting in advance. While there might be SOME pro-active measures valve can take, by making sure there are no erors or exploits on thier code, VAC needs to look for specific markers or files that need to already exist, else how can they be found? As for the need of some kind of list m0gley: If you have a spyware program, and it never says it caught any spyware, how do you know it works? Would you keep such a program? No, we need to see results. As for delayed banning: think of this Bryan, is it better for a thief to be afraid he might be caught, or for him to actually GET CAUGHT IN THE ACT. If you saw a guy speeding, driving recklessly, and he was pulled over WHILE he was commiting the act, this would protect others from his reckless actions. While cheating doesnt measure up in importance, still there is great satisfaction in knowing that the cheater got caught when he committed the crime, not a week later. So what if he thinks he got away with it. Do you think being banned a week later will deter him from cheating more than if it happens on his first experiance? Which would deter you more, getting caught the 1st time, every time, or being able to play with your cheats a week or 2 before you get caught? Seems the latter would actually promote the idea "I can have fun for a week or 2 before that stupid VAC program gets me, its so lame!" Cheats arent detected when they first come out anyway, so as to the feedback to the cheat coders, if its a week after the cheat comes out (and that would be very quick, if VAC bans as soon as it learns of, codes for, updates for, or detects..still takes some time, reactive right?) or 2 weeks, if we "delay ban" I think the coders will get about the same feedback. Now, as to the cost of coding vs opensource, as we all know in many (not all) cases when a company is producing a high level, well coded, well tested software with many coders, continuas updates, etc, they would like to get paid, because thier product has high expectations to work, and they have a business and reputation that depends on it. Not to say some free programs aren't fantastic and work as well, but percentage wise, and when dealing with something we deem "very important", usually professionally coded programs perform better. So if someone developed such a program, wouldn't leagues, clans, communities that are serious about stopping cheaters buy it, as long as it wasn't too extravagantly priced? I would! If it worked. Windows has security updates, but don't millions buy firewall, spam protection, spyware programs, virus detection, even though there are free versions of these? Sorry for the long post again, but I really hate cheating, and I hate thinking people cheat. I hate seeing people that are skilled called cheaters, and I hate seeing people FLAUNTING their cheats in some servers (speed hacks and spinning aimbots, ones that are no-brainers, but still don't get caught WHILE THEIR BEING ARROGANT CHEATING ASSHOLES!). 'nuff said ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
Cheaters continue to flourish becuase the pain of cheating is not steep enough. Until you make the pain harsh enough that cheaters think twice before attempting to cheat they will continue to do so. I won't get on my soap box about how we the gaming community haven't made the cheaters/hackers totally unaccepted yet... Crazy_One kama wrote: I am not too keen to have a pb sollution with global bans. Bans should be to a specific game or serie. There are too many parts that can go wrong. New game lanched and false detection and he cant play any of his games. I think VAC2 is quite good on paper. Delayed banning is a good thing. I dont know how often they update their cheatdatabase, but hopefully they should work with it constantly and they should update it more often. If we get more of the little loglines that they get VAC2 banned, we will appriciate it more. And all of you that are complaining about VAC2 not working on your league. Require that they all record a demo or have a hltv that are recording. Most of the cheats can be found by looking at demos, its still the fastest way of detecting a cheater. /Bjorn On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Bryan wrote: I would like to add a different aspect to this. When cheat programs actively kicked players from the server for using or turning on thier cheats it gave the cheaters feedback that their coding wasn't working. With the delayed banning this can and does give the cheaters a moment to stop and worry as to whether or not they will be banned. Having been in gaming for 8 years as well as admining all our servers from Quake 1 to BF2 currently I have always kept myself aware of what the cheat sites are discussing both publicly and privately. The delayed banning tactic is having definate impacts on cheaters. They no longer have the confidence that their programming has gone undetected. I think VAC should take BF2s approach, if they are Globally banned on one program they are banned on all others supported by Punkbuster. I would vote to keep the delayed banning. Crazy_One FaTe's Minions aprand wrote: Especially when your talking leagues, immediate response to cheats would be nice. If you are playing against a team/player that cheats, and that team wins, and 2 months later they get banned, well it doesn't help your team advance, or even worst, get back the prize money you may have lost due to the cheat! And, in actuality, I would like to have some confidence in my fellow players that they are, in fact, NOT cheating. Unfortunately, the only way to do this is with an immediate repose cheat detection program. I realize that AC lags behind cheats, you cant cure a disease that doesn't exist yet, but better coding of the engine and rapid response to new exploits will go along way. Of course, this means an accurate way of reporting cheats as well, not just blatant accusations. Demos are the best way, they also educate your admins on what cheats REALLY look like. I used to have a nice database of demos of players who had installed cheats then played and demoed so as to demonstrate what certain cheats actually looked like from 1st person and 3rd person, but alas that was many "new cheats" ago. So many feel, " I'm so damn good, if you kill me with 3 HS and spam me through the wall your cheating!" I'm not even that good and I get banned sometimes, by admins who claim vast experience and knowledge and "know" what a cheat looks like. Sorry, a bit off topic maybe, but we really need a dependable AC in order to both enjoy and compete. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
Can you prove your theory with a real log line? Regards Ronny Ronny, sad that you cant or dont want to understand. Do you know what a log is and what is logged? Not? Player cheats Player's account gets suspended by VAC Player is still stupid and tries to join a VAC secured server. Server denies connection and writes Player's STEAMID AND THAT HE IS VAC BANNED into the logfile. Now explain what is so hard to grep all those Players who are vac banned and enlist them and what makes you think that SUCH a list is a fakelist. The only thing you can say is that its not complete BUT its verified. If enlisted steamids do connect successfully to a VAC secured server, then the steamed is taken from the list. :) Simon -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Ronny Schedel Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2006 23:27 An: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Betreff: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 Nope. Because VAC2 bans you after you leave a server or right before you join a server. In every case, you are not connected to a server during a ban. Its impossible to log this. VAC1 bans can be logged, but not VAC2 bans (topic of this thread). Regards Ronny Sorry Ronny, but its not a fakelist and YES ist pretty simple to log vac2 bans. All you need is a large array of gameservers where people play. Simon -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Ronny Schedel Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2006 22:52 An: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Betreff: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 This is a fake list, it is impossible to log VAC2 bans. Regards Ronny On SRCDS servers people get banned. Look at the: http://www.hlstatsx.com/vacbans - Original Message - ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > kama wrote: > > Sooner or later a free AC will either die or they try to go commersial. > > Its how programmers works. They want to get payed for the time they spend > > programming. This is also the reason OpenSource projects are doomed. I > > believe the OpenSource era is soon dead. Some larger projects will > > survive, but those are not made in a real non-profit way. These will be > > > Not everyone is motivated by greed. Believe it or not, some people > enjoy writing and maintaining software for free. I am one of those > people. Open source has been around for a long time, and is unlikely to > "die" any time soon. On a more important note, just because a project > is open source, it does not necessarily mean it has to be free. X-Chat > (the open source IRC program) is open source. If you download the > precompiled windows version, the author wishes the user to pay a > registration fee else the program can only be used for X ammount of > days. On the other hand, you can download the source code yourself, > compile it, and not have to pay any registration fee at all. I am aware of X-Chat. I use it myself, but use a precompiled windows version not compiled by him. And I was around when the flame started on if he broke GPL. And the reason is still greed. All the talk about "It takes up so much time", "The software costs, so I must start taking a fee.." is just plain BS. If he could, he would take money for precompiled Linux versions too. Never the less. look at sourceforge... how many projects are still alive? Most of them dies after a couple of months. I write programs myself, but I dont release them due to the amount of work it needs to support the users. I release insert functions in programs and post the patches back to the community. Other than that. There are not a steady flow of new programmers on the more hardcore development, like kernel or devicedriver programmers. Those who start program today start with .NET or java. And for most products using these languages are just a bunch of crap. It just laziness that they dont learn C++ instead. A decent c++ programmer can write code that operates in both windows and linux. /Bjorn ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 Pro-active means acting in advance. While there might be SOME pro-active measures valve can take, by making sure there are no erors or exploits on thier code, VAC needs to look for specific markers or files that need to already exist, else how can they be found? As for the need of some kind of list m0gley: If you have a spyware program, and it never says it caught any spyware, how do you know it works? Would you keep such a program? No, we need to see results. As for delayed banning: think of this Bryan, is it better for a thief to be afraid he might be caught, or for him to actually GET CAUGHT IN THE ACT. If you saw a guy speeding, driving recklessly, and he was pulled over WHILE he was commiting the act, this would protect others from his reckless actions. While cheating doesnt measure up in importance, still there is great satisfaction in knowing that the cheater got caught when he committed the crime, not a week later. So what if he thinks he got away with it. Do you think being banned a week later will deter him from cheating more than if it happens on his first experiance? Which would deter you more, getting caught the 1st time, every time, or being able to play with your cheats a week or 2 before you get caught? Seems the latter would actually promote the idea "I can have fun for a week or 2 before that stupid VAC program gets me, its so lame!" Cheats arent detected when they first come out anyway, so as to the feedback to the cheat coders, if its a week after the cheat comes out (and that would be very quick, if VAC bans as soon as it learns of, codes for, updates for, or detects..still takes some time, reactive right?) or 2 weeks, if we "delay ban" I think the coders will get about the same feedback. Now, as to the cost of coding vs opensource, as we all know in many (not all) cases when a company is producing a high level, well coded, well tested software with many coders, continuas updates, etc, they would like to get paid, because thier product has high expectations to work, and they have a business and reputation that depends on it. Not to say some free programs aren't fantastic and work as well, but percentage wise, and when dealing with something we deem "very important", usually professionally coded programs perform better. So if someone developed such a program, wouldn't leagues, clans, communities that are serious about stopping cheaters buy it, as long as it wasn't too extravagantly priced? I would! If it worked. Windows has security updates, but don't millions buy firewall, spam protection, spyware programs, virus detection, even though there are free versions of these? Sorry for the long post again, but I really hate cheating, and I hate thinking people cheat. I hate seeing people that are skilled called cheaters, and I hate seeing people FLAUNTING their cheats in some servers (speed hacks and spinning aimbots, ones that are no-brainers, but still don't get caught WHILE THEIR BEING ARROGANT CHEATING ASSHOLES!). 'nuff said ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
kama wrote: Sooner or later a free AC will either die or they try to go commersial. Its how programmers works. They want to get payed for the time they spend programming. This is also the reason OpenSource projects are doomed. I believe the OpenSource era is soon dead. Some larger projects will survive, but those are not made in a real non-profit way. These will be Not everyone is motivated by greed. Believe it or not, some people enjoy writing and maintaining software for free. I am one of those people. Open source has been around for a long time, and is unlikely to "die" any time soon. On a more important note, just because a project is open source, it does not necessarily mean it has to be free. X-Chat (the open source IRC program) is open source. If you download the precompiled windows version, the author wishes the user to pay a registration fee else the program can only be used for X ammount of days. On the other hand, you can download the source code yourself, compile it, and not have to pay any registration fee at all. Matt. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
This is one more reason for Valve to increase their efforts on updating VAC! For me, anticheat is definitley a criteria for bying a multiplayer game or not buying it. Punkbuster is a good one, serveradmins can do a lot by themselfs, beside screenshoting the clients they can set the values for GFX details and so on, the client is able to play with on a server etc.pp. VAC does nothing for server admins, I repeat: nothing! (just some work while updating servers and VAC doesn't want to start again ^^) hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com schrieb am 17.02.06 10:59:33: > > > This have been tried over and over again and always resulting in a dead > project. > > Look at PB. They started out as a free anticheat. They got greedy and > wanted to make money at their product. After PB there where quite a > number of anticheat systems trying to fill PB's place. CSGuard and CD was > born in this area. I think there where about 10 different options of > anticheat software, which rendered that they never got used and one after > the other they all died. HLGuard and CD are those that survived. Then came > VAC and later VAC2. > > Sooner or later a free AC will either die or they try to go commersial. > Its how programmers works. They want to get payed for the time they spend > programming. This is also the reason OpenSource projects are doomed. I > believe the OpenSource era is soon dead. Some larger projects will > survive, but those are not made in a real non-profit way. These will be > supported by larger companies and the developers will get paid. > > /Bjorn > > On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > We should convince some programmers with (re-)writing a "real" anticheat. > > We need a mixture of CD, HLGuard and SSClient/Server... > > > > The people around HLGuard may add an additional client to HLGuard as an > > option, > > which is able to scan the processes on clients... I would spend a public > > server > > for experimental workouts ;) I would spend some webspace for a forum or > > something else... > > (but I will never have the money for paying a programmer, but Valve has, > > and they do nearly nothing) > > > > hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com schrieb am 17.02.06 10:15:25: > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, grammaton782 wrote: > > > > > > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > > -- > > > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > > > hi folks > > > > > > > > first of all, this mailing list is NOT the place 2 post about vac2, > > > > except matters of not runing or starting (bugs) vac2 or beta developing > > > > under dedicated linux servers, not for starting a diskussion about > > > > efficiency of this ac tool > > > > > > Why is this not a good place to discuss VAC2? I think its as good as > > > anywhere else. At least it is HL related. And isnt this list for > > > administrators running a HL server and isnt VAC a part of it? > > > > > > In my book this list should be able to hold any discussion that are > > > related to running a server. And it should be a place where administrators > > > can meet and have a discussion. > > > > > > /Bjorn > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
This have been tried over and over again and always resulting in a dead project. Look at PB. They started out as a free anticheat. They got greedy and wanted to make money at their product. After PB there where quite a number of anticheat systems trying to fill PB's place. CSGuard and CD was born in this area. I think there where about 10 different options of anticheat software, which rendered that they never got used and one after the other they all died. HLGuard and CD are those that survived. Then came VAC and later VAC2. Sooner or later a free AC will either die or they try to go commersial. Its how programmers works. They want to get payed for the time they spend programming. This is also the reason OpenSource projects are doomed. I believe the OpenSource era is soon dead. Some larger projects will survive, but those are not made in a real non-profit way. These will be supported by larger companies and the developers will get paid. /Bjorn On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > We should convince some programmers with (re-)writing a "real" anticheat. > We need a mixture of CD, HLGuard and SSClient/Server... > > The people around HLGuard may add an additional client to HLGuard as an > option, > which is able to scan the processes on clients... I would spend a public > server > for experimental workouts ;) I would spend some webspace for a forum or > something else... > (but I will never have the money for paying a programmer, but Valve has, and > they do nearly nothing) > > hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com schrieb am 17.02.06 10:15:25: > > > > > > On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, grammaton782 wrote: > > > > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > -- > > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > > hi folks > > > > > > first of all, this mailing list is NOT the place 2 post about vac2, > > > except matters of not runing or starting (bugs) vac2 or beta developing > > > under dedicated linux servers, not for starting a diskussion about > > > efficiency of this ac tool > > > > Why is this not a good place to discuss VAC2? I think its as good as > > anywhere else. At least it is HL related. And isnt this list for > > administrators running a HL server and isnt VAC a part of it? > > > > In my book this list should be able to hold any discussion that are > > related to running a server. And it should be a place where administrators > > can meet and have a discussion. > > > > /Bjorn > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
I am not too keen to have a pb sollution with global bans. Bans should be to a specific game or serie. There are too many parts that can go wrong. New game lanched and false detection and he cant play any of his games. I think VAC2 is quite good on paper. Delayed banning is a good thing. I dont know how often they update their cheatdatabase, but hopefully they should work with it constantly and they should update it more often. If we get more of the little loglines that they get VAC2 banned, we will appriciate it more. And all of you that are complaining about VAC2 not working on your league. Require that they all record a demo or have a hltv that are recording. Most of the cheats can be found by looking at demos, its still the fastest way of detecting a cheater. /Bjorn On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Bryan wrote: > I would like to add a different aspect to this. When cheat programs > actively kicked players from the server for using or turning on thier > cheats it gave the cheaters feedback that their coding wasn't working. > With the delayed banning this can and does give the cheaters a moment to > stop and worry as to whether or not they will be banned. Having been in > gaming for 8 years as well as admining all our servers from Quake 1 to > BF2 currently I have always kept myself aware of what the cheat sites > are discussing both publicly and privately. The delayed banning tactic > is having definate impacts on cheaters. They no longer have the > confidence that their programming has gone undetected. I think VAC > should take BF2s approach, if they are Globally banned on one program > they are banned on all others supported by Punkbuster. I would vote to > keep the delayed banning. > > Crazy_One > FaTe's Minions > > aprand wrote: > > > Especially when your talking leagues, immediate response to cheats > > would be > > nice. If you are playing against a team/player that cheats, and that team > > wins, and 2 months later they get banned, well it doesn't help your team > > advance, or even worst, get back the prize money you may have lost due to > > the cheat! And, in actuality, I would like to have some confidence in my > > fellow players that they are, in fact, NOT cheating. Unfortunately, > > the only > > way to do this is with an immediate repose cheat detection program. I > > realize that AC lags behind cheats, you cant cure a disease that doesn't > > exist yet, but better coding of the engine and rapid response to new > > exploits will go along way. Of course, this means an accurate way of > > reporting cheats as well, not just blatant accusations. Demos are the > > best > > way, they also educate your admins on what cheats REALLY look like. I > > used > > to have a nice database of demos of players who had installed cheats > > then > > played and demoed so as to demonstrate what certain cheats actually > > looked > > like from 1st person and 3rd person, but alas that was many "new cheats" > > ago. So many feel, " I'm so damn good, if you kill me with 3 HS and > > spam me > > through the wall your cheating!" I'm not even that good and I get banned > > sometimes, by admins who claim vast experience and knowledge and > > "know" what > > a cheat looks like. Sorry, a bit off topic maybe, but we really need a > > dependable AC in order to both enjoy and compete. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
We should convince some programmers with (re-)writing a "real" anticheat. We need a mixture of CD, HLGuard and SSClient/Server... The people around HLGuard may add an additional client to HLGuard as an option, which is able to scan the processes on clients... I would spend a public server for experimental workouts ;) I would spend some webspace for a forum or something else... (but I will never have the money for paying a programmer, but Valve has, and they do nearly nothing) hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com schrieb am 17.02.06 10:15:25: > > > On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, grammaton782 wrote: > > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > -- > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > hi folks > > > > first of all, this mailing list is NOT the place 2 post about vac2, > > except matters of not runing or starting (bugs) vac2 or beta developing > > under dedicated linux servers, not for starting a diskussion about > > efficiency of this ac tool > > Why is this not a good place to discuss VAC2? I think its as good as > anywhere else. At least it is HL related. And isnt this list for > administrators running a HL server and isnt VAC a part of it? > > In my book this list should be able to hold any discussion that are > related to running a server. And it should be a place where administrators > can meet and have a discussion. > > /Bjorn > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, grammaton782 wrote: > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > hi folks > > first of all, this mailing list is NOT the place 2 post about vac2, > except matters of not runing or starting (bugs) vac2 or beta developing > under dedicated linux servers, not for starting a diskussion about > efficiency of this ac tool Why is this not a good place to discuss VAC2? I think its as good as anywhere else. At least it is HL related. And isnt this list for administrators running a HL server and isnt VAC a part of it? In my book this list should be able to hold any discussion that are related to running a server. And it should be a place where administrators can meet and have a discussion. /Bjorn ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
To bring the discussion back to the topic - VAC2 seems to work fine when it is running, still there are cheats that are obviously able to disable VAC2 and if it is not running it cannot detect anything. I cannot realy understand why these cheats are still working as they are around for a long time now. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
At least: thank you very much for this summary ;) Maybe it isn't the right place, but at least we know, that (nearly) nothing happens. I think I'm going to contact the CD developers, asking for a cooperation with some leagues I have a bit influence in... (small but - you never know) hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com schrieb am 17.02.06 01:56:01: > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > hi folks > > first of all, this mailing list is NOT the place 2 post about vac2, except > matters of not runing or starting (bugs) vac2 or beta developing under > dedicated linux servers, not for starting a diskussion about efficiency of > this ac tool > > > the latest discussion the initiator of this "vac's not updated" thread is > talking about, is one interview that was originally shown on one of the > biggest counterstrike pages in germany " www.counterstrike.de " > > it is part four of a series of interviews puplished since november 2005 > > having discussions and Q&A with one of the most known cheatcoders in europe, > the coder of the official anti cheat tool of the esl (germany's and almost in > all parts of europe biggest league) aequitas, and also (what startet this > discussion here) an interview with one another cheatcoder that included one > leaking function > to get statistic informations about people using his cheat and to determine > wich function his customers are using and for a kind of quality assurance^^ > the same leak funktion had been used by other coders after their cheats were > hacked^^ by other cheatcoders to post them for free use > (for free-->there are standart prices for this kind of cheats 50-150 euro) > so he was able to detect people that did not pay for his cheat > > the side effect of this leaking function is that there are huge databases, > filled with outrageous numbers of steam id's showing when, were and which > function of the cheat has been used > > in this interview the cheatcoder was asked about his opinion of vac2 > > including his answer he pinned the date 17 th of dec 2005 as the last date > vac2 had been updated, including new detections > > also in his answer regarding vac2 he says that the detection of vac2 is not > innovative or even effective > > in other parts of this interview series and also in similar reports on other > counterstrike pages, they are all almost telling the same, the few numbers of > vac2 banned people are only "noobs" looking on cheat pages found by google > and yahoo, cheats that got coded months ago, been updated several times > > in the database of only one of this cheat coders were about 29.000 > (twentyninethousand) different steam id's using only his cheat since > october 2005 > > this is whats all about this diskussion > > i can understand what was the reason for sirtom to start this, > but this is truly the wrong way here > why do you think the company behind the esl (turtle entertainment in cologne) > is not starting communication regarding this issue into valves direction, but > coding an ac tool by themselves? > the problem of all multiplayer games is the necessary netcode > > is there an code ... you are able to manipulate this code > > if someone want's more detailed information about this interview series > regarding europe/germany, you are free 2 mail me (english, german, turkish > language possible) > > regards > > grammaton782 > -- > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
Administracija wrote: If we can have a list, so it means that VAC2 works well :). That is the point. Heh, no, it means you have a list. -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
If we can have a list, so it means that VAC2 works well :). That is the point. - Original Message - From: "m0gely" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 Administracija wrote: Why isn't that posible? VAC logs something inside logs. So if you have at least 100 servers, you can start doing a list. What is the point of this discussion? Who cares if you have a log of banned id's? I can't think of a reason to keep such a list. -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
Administracija wrote: Why isn't that posible? VAC logs something inside logs. So if you have at least 100 servers, you can start doing a list. What is the point of this discussion? Who cares if you have a log of banned id's? I can't think of a reason to keep such a list. -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
Why isn't that posible? VAC logs something inside logs. So if you have at least 100 servers, you can start doing a list. - Original Message - From: "Simon Lange" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 12:14 AM Subject: AW: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 Sorry Ronny, but its not a fakelist and YES ist pretty simple to log vac2 bans. All you need is a large array of gameservers where people play. Simon -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Ronny Schedel Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2006 22:52 An: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Betreff: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 This is a fake list, it is impossible to log VAC2 bans. Regards Ronny On SRCDS servers people get banned. Look at the: http://www.hlstatsx.com/vacbans - Original Message - ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
Nope. Because VAC2 bans you after you leave a server or right before you join a server. In every case, you are not connected to a server during a ban. Its impossible to log this. VAC1 bans can be logged, but not VAC2 bans (topic of this thread). Regards Ronny Sorry Ronny, but its not a fakelist and YES ist pretty simple to log vac2 bans. All you need is a large array of gameservers where people play. Simon -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Ronny Schedel Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2006 22:52 An: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Betreff: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 This is a fake list, it is impossible to log VAC2 bans. Regards Ronny On SRCDS servers people get banned. Look at the: http://www.hlstatsx.com/vacbans - Original Message - ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
This is a fake list, it is impossible to log VAC2 bans. Regards Ronny On SRCDS servers people get banned. Look at the: http://www.hlstatsx.com/vacbans - Original Message - ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
I think VAC2 is pro-active, if i recall it correctly Alfred said VAC2 will ban anything what it finds in the memory running hooked into the hl engine. - Original Message - From: "Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:34 PM Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 The cheaters will always be ahead of any anti-cheat system. The anti cheat system is a reactive system, NOT a proactive system. There will always be cheaters, it is up to valve to plug the holes, and it is up to the people who write the cheats to find new holes. All we can do is hope that Valve keeps allocating development resources to Vac2 to keep plugging the newest holes in the code. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of aprand Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:29 AM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 Especially when your talking leagues, immediate response to cheats would be nice. If you are playing against a team/player that cheats, and that team wins, and 2 months later they get banned, well it doesn't help your team advance, or even worst, get back the prize money you may have lost due to the cheat! And, in actuality, I would like to have some confidence in my fellow players that they are, in fact, NOT cheating. Unfortunately, the only way to do this is with an immediate repose cheat detection program. I realize that AC lags behind cheats, you cant cure a disease that doesn't exist yet, but better coding of the engine and rapid response to new exploits will go along way. Of course, this means an accurate way of reporting cheats as well, not just blatant accusations. Demos are the best way, they also educate your admins on what cheats REALLY look like. I used to have a nice database of demos of players who had installed cheats then played and demoed so as to demonstrate what certain cheats actually looked like from 1st person and 3rd person, but alas that was many "new cheats" ago. So many feel, " I'm so damn good, if you kill me with 3 HS and spam me through the wall your cheating!" I'm not even that good and I get banned sometimes, by admins who claim vast experience and knowledge and "know" what a cheat looks like. Sorry, a bit off topic maybe, but we really need a dependable AC in order to both enjoy and compete. - Original Message - From: "Administracija" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 I would love to see announcments :). Then you can make them public and add some lines in red like: "DIE CHEATERS!" :-) - Original Message - From: "Saint K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 indd, VAC updates are always unannounced too. - Original Message - From: "Tyler Cook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 How do you know it doesnt get updates? VAC uses delayed banning... there is no way to track who gets banned... Keep your mouth closed and stop assuming things. VAC2 works, and eventually, they will get banned. On 2/16/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As VAC2 is the number 1 anticheat in every league, I have to ask one question: Why isn't Valve updating it anymore? Thousands of cheaters are out there. Hundreds of newcomer clans are joining ladders and league, bashing oldschool clans like they have experience²... Actual it sucks playing in leagues with more than 50 teams in it (ESL f.e.). Last disussions showed, that one single cheat by one coder is in use by 29,000 (!!!) players! This is only one cheat and it is used by players of known teams and national players as well, as by really averged ones. Report/interview @ 4Players (german): http://www.4players.de/cs.php?LAYOUT=dispbericht&world=cs&page=1&BERICHTID=4 270 (maybe someone has the time to translate) Why did Valve publish VAC²? What is it good for, when it doesn't gets daily updates? My clan will drop the ESL - the biggest league, with the most cheating players and teams... Please don't bother me with "you're not good enough" or "you must realize that others are better" - I KNOW others are better, my team and I, we know it, but we can't stand these times, where people which don't know every corner of maps like train, are aiming like young gods. They even don't know how to move, but they know where you are! ;- At least I would PAY for licensed servers with a special updated VAC2 version! (VAC2 Premium maybe?! 0.20$ extra for every server slot) I would like to play one of the best games ever, but protected against useless and cheating individuals... Please V
RE: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
The cheaters will always be ahead of any anti-cheat system. The anti cheat system is a reactive system, NOT a proactive system. There will always be cheaters, it is up to valve to plug the holes, and it is up to the people who write the cheats to find new holes. All we can do is hope that Valve keeps allocating development resources to Vac2 to keep plugging the newest holes in the code. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of aprand Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:29 AM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 Especially when your talking leagues, immediate response to cheats would be nice. If you are playing against a team/player that cheats, and that team wins, and 2 months later they get banned, well it doesn't help your team advance, or even worst, get back the prize money you may have lost due to the cheat! And, in actuality, I would like to have some confidence in my fellow players that they are, in fact, NOT cheating. Unfortunately, the only way to do this is with an immediate repose cheat detection program. I realize that AC lags behind cheats, you cant cure a disease that doesn't exist yet, but better coding of the engine and rapid response to new exploits will go along way. Of course, this means an accurate way of reporting cheats as well, not just blatant accusations. Demos are the best way, they also educate your admins on what cheats REALLY look like. I used to have a nice database of demos of players who had installed cheats then played and demoed so as to demonstrate what certain cheats actually looked like from 1st person and 3rd person, but alas that was many "new cheats" ago. So many feel, " I'm so damn good, if you kill me with 3 HS and spam me through the wall your cheating!" I'm not even that good and I get banned sometimes, by admins who claim vast experience and knowledge and "know" what a cheat looks like. Sorry, a bit off topic maybe, but we really need a dependable AC in order to both enjoy and compete. - Original Message - From: "Administracija" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 I would love to see announcments :). Then you can make them public and add some lines in red like: "DIE CHEATERS!" :-) - Original Message - From: "Saint K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 indd, VAC updates are always unannounced too. - Original Message - From: "Tyler Cook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 How do you know it doesnt get updates? VAC uses delayed banning... there is no way to track who gets banned... Keep your mouth closed and stop assuming things. VAC2 works, and eventually, they will get banned. On 2/16/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As VAC2 is the number 1 anticheat in every league, I have to ask one > question: > > Why isn't Valve updating it anymore? Thousands of cheaters are out there. > Hundreds of newcomer clans are joining ladders and league, bashing > oldschool clans like they have experience²... > > Actual it sucks playing in leagues with more than 50 teams in it (ESL > f.e.). Last disussions showed, that one single cheat by one coder is in > use by 29,000 (!!!) players! > This is only one cheat and it is used by players of known teams and > national players as well, as by really averged ones. > > Report/interview @ 4Players (german): > http://www.4players.de/cs.php?LAYOUT=dispbericht&world=cs&page=1&BERICHTID=4 270 > (maybe someone has the time to translate) > > Why did Valve publish VAC²? What is it good for, when it doesn't gets > daily updates? My clan will drop the ESL - the biggest league, with the > most cheating players and teams... > > Please don't bother me with "you're not good enough" or "you must realize > that others are better" - I KNOW others are better, my team and I, we know > it, but we can't stand these times, where people which don't know every > corner of maps like train, are aiming like young gods. They even don't > know how to move, but they know where you are! ;- > > At least I would PAY for licensed servers with a special updated VAC2 > version! (VAC2 Premium maybe?! 0.20$ extra for every server slot) > > I would like to play one of the best games ever, but protected against > useless and cheating individuals... > > Please Valve give a statement. Do you still want CS 1.6 to be "cheat-free" > or is the time coming, where CS 1.6 is going down due to the fact, that > anyone can cheat un
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
I would like to add a different aspect to this. When cheat programs actively kicked players from the server for using or turning on thier cheats it gave the cheaters feedback that their coding wasn't working. With the delayed banning this can and does give the cheaters a moment to stop and worry as to whether or not they will be banned. Having been in gaming for 8 years as well as admining all our servers from Quake 1 to BF2 currently I have always kept myself aware of what the cheat sites are discussing both publicly and privately. The delayed banning tactic is having definate impacts on cheaters. They no longer have the confidence that their programming has gone undetected. I think VAC should take BF2s approach, if they are Globally banned on one program they are banned on all others supported by Punkbuster. I would vote to keep the delayed banning. Crazy_One FaTe's Minions aprand wrote: Especially when your talking leagues, immediate response to cheats would be nice. If you are playing against a team/player that cheats, and that team wins, and 2 months later they get banned, well it doesn't help your team advance, or even worst, get back the prize money you may have lost due to the cheat! And, in actuality, I would like to have some confidence in my fellow players that they are, in fact, NOT cheating. Unfortunately, the only way to do this is with an immediate repose cheat detection program. I realize that AC lags behind cheats, you cant cure a disease that doesn't exist yet, but better coding of the engine and rapid response to new exploits will go along way. Of course, this means an accurate way of reporting cheats as well, not just blatant accusations. Demos are the best way, they also educate your admins on what cheats REALLY look like. I used to have a nice database of demos of players who had installed cheats then played and demoed so as to demonstrate what certain cheats actually looked like from 1st person and 3rd person, but alas that was many "new cheats" ago. So many feel, " I'm so damn good, if you kill me with 3 HS and spam me through the wall your cheating!" I'm not even that good and I get banned sometimes, by admins who claim vast experience and knowledge and "know" what a cheat looks like. Sorry, a bit off topic maybe, but we really need a dependable AC in order to both enjoy and compete. - Original Message - From: "Administracija" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 I would love to see announcments :). Then you can make them public and add some lines in red like: "DIE CHEATERS!" :-) - Original Message - From: "Saint K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 indd, VAC updates are always unannounced too. - Original Message ----- From: "Tyler Cook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 How do you know it doesnt get updates? VAC uses delayed banning... there is no way to track who gets banned... Keep your mouth closed and stop assuming things. VAC2 works, and eventually, they will get banned. On 2/16/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As VAC2 is the number 1 anticheat in every league, I have to ask one question: Why isn't Valve updating it anymore? Thousands of cheaters are out there. Hundreds of newcomer clans are joining ladders and league, bashing oldschool clans like they have experience²... Actual it sucks playing in leagues with more than 50 teams in it (ESL f.e.). Last disussions showed, that one single cheat by one coder is in use by 29,000 (!!!) players! This is only one cheat and it is used by players of known teams and national players as well, as by really averged ones. Report/interview @ 4Players (german): http://www.4players.de/cs.php?LAYOUT=dispbericht&world=cs&page=1&BERICHTID=4270 (maybe someone has the time to translate) Why did Valve publish VAC²? What is it good for, when it doesn't gets daily updates? My clan will drop the ESL - the biggest league, with the most cheating players and teams... Please don't bother me with "you're not good enough" or "you must realize that others are better" - I KNOW others are better, my team and I, we know it, but we can't stand these times, where people which don't know every corner of maps like train, are aiming like young gods. They even don't know how to move, but they know where you are! ;- At least I would PAY for licensed servers with a special updated VAC2 version! (VAC2 Premium maybe?! 0.20$ extra for every server slot) I would like to play one of the best games ever, but protected against useless and cheating individuals... Please Valve g
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
Especially when your talking leagues, immediate response to cheats would be nice. If you are playing against a team/player that cheats, and that team wins, and 2 months later they get banned, well it doesn't help your team advance, or even worst, get back the prize money you may have lost due to the cheat! And, in actuality, I would like to have some confidence in my fellow players that they are, in fact, NOT cheating. Unfortunately, the only way to do this is with an immediate repose cheat detection program. I realize that AC lags behind cheats, you cant cure a disease that doesn't exist yet, but better coding of the engine and rapid response to new exploits will go along way. Of course, this means an accurate way of reporting cheats as well, not just blatant accusations. Demos are the best way, they also educate your admins on what cheats REALLY look like. I used to have a nice database of demos of players who had installed cheats then played and demoed so as to demonstrate what certain cheats actually looked like from 1st person and 3rd person, but alas that was many "new cheats" ago. So many feel, " I'm so damn good, if you kill me with 3 HS and spam me through the wall your cheating!" I'm not even that good and I get banned sometimes, by admins who claim vast experience and knowledge and "know" what a cheat looks like. Sorry, a bit off topic maybe, but we really need a dependable AC in order to both enjoy and compete. - Original Message - From: "Administracija" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 I would love to see announcments :). Then you can make them public and add some lines in red like: "DIE CHEATERS!" :-) - Original Message - From: "Saint K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 indd, VAC updates are always unannounced too. - Original Message - From: "Tyler Cook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 How do you know it doesnt get updates? VAC uses delayed banning... there is no way to track who gets banned... Keep your mouth closed and stop assuming things. VAC2 works, and eventually, they will get banned. On 2/16/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As VAC2 is the number 1 anticheat in every league, I have to ask one question: Why isn't Valve updating it anymore? Thousands of cheaters are out there. Hundreds of newcomer clans are joining ladders and league, bashing oldschool clans like they have experience²... Actual it sucks playing in leagues with more than 50 teams in it (ESL f.e.). Last disussions showed, that one single cheat by one coder is in use by 29,000 (!!!) players! This is only one cheat and it is used by players of known teams and national players as well, as by really averged ones. Report/interview @ 4Players (german): http://www.4players.de/cs.php?LAYOUT=dispbericht&world=cs&page=1&BERICHTID=4270 (maybe someone has the time to translate) Why did Valve publish VAC²? What is it good for, when it doesn't gets daily updates? My clan will drop the ESL - the biggest league, with the most cheating players and teams... Please don't bother me with "you're not good enough" or "you must realize that others are better" - I KNOW others are better, my team and I, we know it, but we can't stand these times, where people which don't know every corner of maps like train, are aiming like young gods. They even don't know how to move, but they know where you are! ;- At least I would PAY for licensed servers with a special updated VAC2 version! (VAC2 Premium maybe?! 0.20$ extra for every server slot) I would like to play one of the best games ever, but protected against useless and cheating individuals... Please Valve give a statement. Do you still want CS 1.6 to be "cheat-free" or is the time coming, where CS 1.6 is going down due to the fact, that anyone can cheat undetected while no VAC2 updates are made? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.9/261 - Release Date: 2/15/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
I would love to see announcments :). Then you can make them public and add some lines in red like: "DIE CHEATERS!" :-) - Original Message - From: "Saint K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 indd, VAC updates are always unannounced too. - Original Message - From: "Tyler Cook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 How do you know it doesnt get updates? VAC uses delayed banning... there is no way to track who gets banned... Keep your mouth closed and stop assuming things. VAC2 works, and eventually, they will get banned. On 2/16/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As VAC2 is the number 1 anticheat in every league, I have to ask one question: Why isn't Valve updating it anymore? Thousands of cheaters are out there. Hundreds of newcomer clans are joining ladders and league, bashing oldschool clans like they have experience²... Actual it sucks playing in leagues with more than 50 teams in it (ESL f.e.). Last disussions showed, that one single cheat by one coder is in use by 29,000 (!!!) players! This is only one cheat and it is used by players of known teams and national players as well, as by really averged ones. Report/interview @ 4Players (german): http://www.4players.de/cs.php?LAYOUT=dispbericht&world=cs&page=1&BERICHTID=4270 (maybe someone has the time to translate) Why did Valve publish VAC²? What is it good for, when it doesn't gets daily updates? My clan will drop the ESL - the biggest league, with the most cheating players and teams... Please don't bother me with "you're not good enough" or "you must realize that others are better" - I KNOW others are better, my team and I, we know it, but we can't stand these times, where people which don't know every corner of maps like train, are aiming like young gods. They even don't know how to move, but they know where you are! ;- At least I would PAY for licensed servers with a special updated VAC2 version! (VAC2 Premium maybe?! 0.20$ extra for every server slot) I would like to play one of the best games ever, but protected against useless and cheating individuals... Please Valve give a statement. Do you still want CS 1.6 to be "cheat-free" or is the time coming, where CS 1.6 is going down due to the fact, that anyone can cheat undetected while no VAC2 updates are made? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.9/261 - Release Date: 2/15/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
On SRCDS servers people get banned. Look at the: http://www.hlstatsx.com/vacbans - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 Ah thanks, now I can see everything in pink again! Delayed banning, I know it... But what get's banned if nothing is found ^^ hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com schrieb am 16.02.06 16:19:01: How do you know it doesnt get updates? VAC uses delayed banning... there is no way to track who gets banned... Keep your mouth closed and stop assuming things. VAC2 works, and eventually, they will get banned. On 2/16/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As VAC2 is the number 1 anticheat in every league, I have to ask one > question: > > Why isn't Valve updating it anymore? Thousands of cheaters are out > there. Hundreds of newcomer clans are joining ladders and league, > bashing oldschool clans like they have experience²... > > Actual it sucks playing in leagues with more than 50 teams in it (ESL > f.e.). Last disussions showed, that one single cheat by one coder is in > use by 29,000 (!!!) players! > This is only one cheat and it is used by players of known teams and > national players as well, as by really averged ones. > > Report/interview @ 4Players (german): > http://www.4players.de/cs.php?LAYOUT=dispbericht&world=cs&page=1&BERICHTID=4270 > (maybe someone has the time to translate) > > Why did Valve publish VAC²? What is it good for, when it doesn't gets > daily updates? My clan will drop the ESL - the biggest league, with the > most cheating players and teams... > > Please don't bother me with "you're not good enough" or "you must > realize that others are better" - I KNOW others are better, my team and > I, we know it, but we can't stand these times, where people which don't > know every corner of maps like train, are aiming like young gods. They > even don't know how to move, but they know where you are! ;- > > At least I would PAY for licensed servers with a special updated VAC2 > version! (VAC2 Premium maybe?! 0.20$ extra for every server slot) > > I would like to play one of the best games ever, but protected against > useless and cheating individuals... > > Please Valve give a statement. Do you still want CS 1.6 to be > "cheat-free" or is the time coming, where CS 1.6 is going down due to > the fact, that anyone can cheat undetected while no VAC2 updates are > made? > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
indd, VAC updates are always unannounced too. - Original Message - From: "Tyler Cook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2 How do you know it doesnt get updates? VAC uses delayed banning... there is no way to track who gets banned... Keep your mouth closed and stop assuming things. VAC2 works, and eventually, they will get banned. On 2/16/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As VAC2 is the number 1 anticheat in every league, I have to ask one question: Why isn't Valve updating it anymore? Thousands of cheaters are out there. Hundreds of newcomer clans are joining ladders and league, bashing oldschool clans like they have experience²... Actual it sucks playing in leagues with more than 50 teams in it (ESL f.e.). Last disussions showed, that one single cheat by one coder is in use by 29,000 (!!!) players! This is only one cheat and it is used by players of known teams and national players as well, as by really averged ones. Report/interview @ 4Players (german): http://www.4players.de/cs.php?LAYOUT=dispbericht&world=cs&page=1&BERICHTID=4270 (maybe someone has the time to translate) Why did Valve publish VAC²? What is it good for, when it doesn't gets daily updates? My clan will drop the ESL - the biggest league, with the most cheating players and teams... Please don't bother me with "you're not good enough" or "you must realize that others are better" - I KNOW others are better, my team and I, we know it, but we can't stand these times, where people which don't know every corner of maps like train, are aiming like young gods. They even don't know how to move, but they know where you are! ;- At least I would PAY for licensed servers with a special updated VAC2 version! (VAC2 Premium maybe?! 0.20$ extra for every server slot) I would like to play one of the best games ever, but protected against useless and cheating individuals... Please Valve give a statement. Do you still want CS 1.6 to be "cheat-free" or is the time coming, where CS 1.6 is going down due to the fact, that anyone can cheat undetected while no VAC2 updates are made? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.9/261 - Release Date: 2/15/2006 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
Ah thanks, now I can see everything in pink again! Delayed banning, I know it... But what get's banned if nothing is found ^^ hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com schrieb am 16.02.06 16:19:01: > > How do you know it doesnt get updates? > > VAC uses delayed banning... there is no way to track who gets banned... > > Keep your mouth closed and stop assuming things. VAC2 works, and > eventually, they will get banned. > > On 2/16/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > As VAC2 is the number 1 anticheat in every league, I have to ask one > > question: > > > > Why isn't Valve updating it anymore? Thousands of cheaters are out there. > > Hundreds of newcomer clans are joining ladders and league, bashing > > oldschool clans like they have experience²... > > > > Actual it sucks playing in leagues with more than 50 teams in it (ESL > > f.e.). Last disussions showed, that one single cheat by one coder is in use > > by 29,000 (!!!) players! > > This is only one cheat and it is used by players of known teams and > > national players as well, as by really averged ones. > > > > Report/interview @ 4Players (german): > > http://www.4players.de/cs.php?LAYOUT=dispbericht&world=cs&page=1&BERICHTID=4270 > > (maybe someone has the time to translate) > > > > Why did Valve publish VAC²? What is it good for, when it doesn't gets daily > > updates? My clan will drop the ESL - the biggest league, with the most > > cheating players and teams... > > > > Please don't bother me with "you're not good enough" or "you must realize > > that others are better" - I KNOW others are better, my team and I, we know > > it, but we can't stand these times, where people which don't know every > > corner of maps like train, are aiming like young gods. They even don't know > > how to move, but they know where you are! ;- > > > > At least I would PAY for licensed servers with a special updated VAC2 > > version! (VAC2 Premium maybe?! 0.20$ extra for every server slot) > > > > I would like to play one of the best games ever, but protected against > > useless and cheating individuals... > > > > Please Valve give a statement. Do you still want CS 1.6 to be "cheat-free" > > or is the time coming, where CS 1.6 is going down due to the fact, that > > anyone can cheat undetected while no VAC2 updates are made? > > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Updating VAC2
How do you know it doesnt get updates? VAC uses delayed banning... there is no way to track who gets banned... Keep your mouth closed and stop assuming things. VAC2 works, and eventually, they will get banned. On 2/16/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As VAC2 is the number 1 anticheat in every league, I have to ask one question: > > Why isn't Valve updating it anymore? Thousands of cheaters are out there. > Hundreds of newcomer clans are joining ladders and league, bashing oldschool > clans like they have experience²... > > Actual it sucks playing in leagues with more than 50 teams in it (ESL f.e.). > Last disussions showed, that one single cheat by one coder is in use by > 29,000 (!!!) players! > This is only one cheat and it is used by players of known teams and national > players as well, as by really averged ones. > > Report/interview @ 4Players (german): > http://www.4players.de/cs.php?LAYOUT=dispbericht&world=cs&page=1&BERICHTID=4270 > (maybe someone has the time to translate) > > Why did Valve publish VAC²? What is it good for, when it doesn't gets daily > updates? My clan will drop the ESL - the biggest league, with the most > cheating players and teams... > > Please don't bother me with "you're not good enough" or "you must realize > that others are better" - I KNOW others are better, my team and I, we know > it, but we can't stand these times, where people which don't know every > corner of maps like train, are aiming like young gods. They even don't know > how to move, but they know where you are! ;- > > At least I would PAY for licensed servers with a special updated VAC2 > version! (VAC2 Premium maybe?! 0.20$ extra for every server slot) > > I would like to play one of the best games ever, but protected against > useless and cheating individuals... > > Please Valve give a statement. Do you still want CS 1.6 to be "cheat-free" or > is the time coming, where CS 1.6 is going down due to the fact, that anyone > can cheat undetected while no VAC2 updates are made? > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
