[homenet] IETF92 WG session draft minutes upload
The notes from the Dallas WG session (thanks Øle!) are now available at: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/92/minutes/minutes-92-homenet Please let me know if you have any corrections not later than April 24th. thanks, Ray ___ homenet mailing list homenet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet
Re: [homenet] Selecting a routing protocol for HOMENET
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 4:23 PM, Ray Hunter v6...@globis.net wrote: Terry - you might consider adding a pointer to RFC 7368 as an explicit source of input for the requirements. +1 The WG achieved rough consensus on Section 3.5 of RFC 7368. That should be the baseline for any beauty contest of routing protocols for Homenet. +1, although one would hope that it goes without saying that a routing protocol that does not meet the requirements in RFC 7368 cannot be chosen. ___ homenet mailing list homenet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet
Re: [homenet] Selecting a routing protocol for HOMENET
Ralph Droms wrote: On Apr 7, 2015, at 6:47 AM 4/7/15, Juliusz Chroboczekj...@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr wrote: The DT will be chartered as below. I find the lack of the words working code, implementation experience or experimental data somewhat disquieting. +1 I'd like to see a DT with hands on experience of running Homenet code before IETF 93 in Prague, and that they give this appropriate weight in any considerations. I think the umbrella direction for requirements could be considered to cover those specifics: For the design team to make this determination, it shall first understand the use-cases for homenet and derive routing requirements from those. Terry - you might consider adding a pointer to RFC 7368 as an explicit source of input for the requirements. +1 The WG achieved rough consensus on Section 3.5 of RFC 7368. That should be the baseline for any beauty contest of routing protocols for Homenet. - Ralph With frustrated regards, -- Juliusz Chroboczek ___ homenet mailing list homenet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet ___ homenet mailing list homenet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet
Re: [homenet] How is prefix delegation handled on OpenWRT/CeroWRT in a homenet configuration?
I note that I was unsuccessful in getting PD to work properly on ubuntu. dhclient would assign /68s, dibbler (as currently released) would crash, and dibbler rc2 also had issues, all this compounded by switching between these daemons - causing the dhcp server on the cable modem I was using - to reject more PD requests and then run wild sending not in the spec error messages - which then drove the dhcp clients wild... https://github.com/sbyx/odhcp6c/issues/27 When you get it working let us know. That was a little too much dogfood in that weekend for me. On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 6:48 AM, Ted Lemon mel...@fugue.com wrote: Sorry to delve into an operational question when we're having so much fun discussing layer 9 stuff, but are any of the OpenWRT folks around who could tell me what OpenWRT is doing to get its delegation from the ISP? ISC DHCP? dhcpcd? dnsmasq? I ask because I want to replicate a homenet environment at home, but my edge router is a server running Ubuntu, and I don't want to put a Wifi router between it and the internet. Clues appreciated. ___ homenet mailing list homenet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet -- Dave Täht We CAN make better hardware, ourselves, beat bufferbloat, and take back control of the edge of the internet! If we work together, on making it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/onetswitch/onetswitch-open-source-hardware-for-networking ___ homenet mailing list homenet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet
Re: [homenet] Homenet Design Team for Routing Protocol Selection
I think only Margaret has a passing familiarity with Babel. Russ White is also familiar with Babel. Correct. Apologies to Russ. This doesn't change the fact that the right way to choose an impartial team is to select people who can correct each other's biases. I am fairly positive this is not the case in this particular group of experts. -- Juliusz ___ homenet mailing list homenet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet
Re: [homenet] Homenet Design Team for Routing Protocol Selection
Russ White (lead) Margaret (Wasserman) Cullen Ralph Droms Philippe Klein Wes George Ross Callon we want the design team to be impartial I think only Margaret has a passing familiarity with Babel. Since the team is impartial, I assume there's also at most one person familiar with IS-IS? -- Juliusz ___ homenet mailing list homenet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet
Re: [homenet] Homenet Design Team for Routing Protocol Selection
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Juliusz Chroboczek j...@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr wrote: Russ White (lead) Margaret (Wasserman) Cullen Ralph Droms Philippe Klein Wes George Ross Callon we want the design team to be impartial I think only Margaret has a passing familiarity with Babel. Since the team is impartial, I assume there's also at most one person familiar with IS-IS? In this, you would be incorrect. Russ White is also familiar with Babel. That is also - sorry - a false presentation of fairness which assumes that those on the design team will be biased and that it is reasonable and necessary to find equal numbers of people familiar with one of the most widely deployed IGPs and with an interesting protocol that has a niche deployment. There is knowledge of multiple IGPs in the team - and as critically, an impartiality and willingness to listen and consider the requirements and how the candidates compare. What I think we needed on the design team is both impartiality, understanding of homenet use cases for deriving use-cases, understanding of different IGPs, and understanding how to select a routing protocol based upon requirements. Regards, Alia -- Juliusz ___ homenet mailing list homenet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet
[homenet] Homenet Design Team for Routing Protocol Selection
Terry's email on April 6 confirmed that Homenet will use the approach of having a Design Team to select the one mandatory-to-implement routing protocol. The charter for the design team, as sent in his email, is below. I am happy to also announce the membership of the design team with many thanks to them for taking on this time-consuming and critical job. Russ White (lead) Margaret (Wasserman) Cullen Ralph Droms Philippe Klein Wes George Ross Callon The design team has a private mailing list homenet-dt-rout...@ietf.org for their internal communication. The design team members are the only ones on that mailing list. Charter: Homenet's architecture (RFC 7368) articulates the general features required. The working group has agreed that a single routing protocol must be identified as mandatory to implement. The final purpose of this design team is to select and present a single routing protocol with a summary of the necessary extensions and work to be the one that is mandatory to implement. Once the design team has made its recommendation, the working group will consider any substantial technical objections (see RFC 7282) as part of gaining consensus. For the design team to make this determination, it shall first understand the use-cases for homenet and derive routing requirements from those. Then it shall compare these routing requirements to candidate routing protocols and examine the gaps in each. For each highly plausible candidate routing protocol, the design team will estimate the work and actions needed, the resources at hand or reasonably available, and the associated timeline to get an acceptable, full, standardized solution using each protocol. Based upon this information and the perceived market timing needs of the technology, the design team will make its selection. The requirements, gaps, and reasoning will be documented. This document should be delivered by the July 2015 IETF. Regards, Alia ___ homenet mailing list homenet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet
[homenet] How is prefix delegation handled on OpenWRT/CeroWRT in a homenet configuration?
Sorry to delve into an operational question when we're having so much fun discussing layer 9 stuff, but are any of the OpenWRT folks around who could tell me what OpenWRT is doing to get its delegation from the ISP? ISC DHCP? dhcpcd? dnsmasq? I ask because I want to replicate a homenet environment at home, but my edge router is a server running Ubuntu, and I don't want to put a Wifi router between it and the internet. Clues appreciated. ___ homenet mailing list homenet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet
Re: [homenet] Homenet Design Team for Routing Protocol Selection
Lorenzo, On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Lorenzo Colitti lore...@google.com wrote: Alia, Russ White (lead) Margaret (Wasserman) Cullen Ralph Droms Philippe Klein Wes George Ross Callon Nowhere on that list do I see names that I recognize as being involved in current homenet implementations - or at least, in the implementations that seem most likely for selection. Is there a reason that none of those implementers were made part of the team? Was it done intentionally, out of concern that if they had been on the team, they would be partial to their own designs? Yes - we want the design team to be impartial and make an informed technical decision. There were many others that were considered but impartiality was a very important criteria. It does no good for the design team to recreate the extremely polarized conversation that have happened in Homenet. We did include Philippe as someone who is familiar with constrained environments as well layer 2 considerations. If not, then... well, how can the team make a useful decision if it has not been involved with the work so far? It was done intentionally. I believe that this design team has the background and knowledge to assess requirements and compare against candidate routing protocols. The design team is most able to reach out to others for questions and advice. Regards, Alia ___ homenet mailing list homenet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet
Re: [homenet] Homenet Design Team for Routing Protocol Selection
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 6:33 AM, Alia Atlas akat...@gmail.com wrote: Terry's email on April 6 confirmed that Homenet will use the approach of having a Design Team to select the one mandatory-to-implement routing protocol. The charter for the design team, as sent in his email, is below. I am happy to also announce the membership of the design team with many thanks to them for taking on this time-consuming and critical job. Russ White (lead) Margaret (Wasserman) Cullen Ralph Droms Philippe Klein Wes George Ross Callon The design team has a private mailing list homenet-dt-rout...@ietf.org for their internal communication. The design team members are the only ones on that mailing list. Had the proposal for the design team had been for a private design team I think you would have raise more ruckus here. That said, the ruckus and email burden was enough to make me nearly quit this list to focus on more important matters like making wifi scale to the next 10 billion users over the next 5 years. I am glad that there is 802.14 expertise on this design team, I think that wireless standard is very important to interoperate with, and for too long this wg has fought over wired vs wireless concepts without feedback from the IoT folk. I am glad there appears to be some source code over here worth looking at: https://twatteyne.wordpress.com/projects/openwsn/ In my case, since the burden of actually participating in a new group before july is now gone, I plan to focus on my primary missions in fq and aqm technologies and moving them into more hardware, as well as stablizing the openwrt chaos calmer code base for release this summer. IF there is any other source code worth incorporating into my testbeds, please let me know soon. I already ship batman, bmx6, olsr, hnetd, babel, and everything in quagga. It is off topic for this thread, but if there is anyone out there that would like to see some faster/better home cpe built with modern fq/aqm/shaping algorithms, maybe with support for loop avoiding bellman ford in gates... see my .sig. Only 24 hours left to run on the darn kickstarter. Charter: Homenet's architecture (RFC 7368) articulates the general features required. The working group has agreed that a single routing protocol must be identified as mandatory to implement. The final purpose of this design team is to select and present a single routing protocol with a summary of the necessary extensions and work to be the one that is mandatory to implement. Once the design team has made its recommendation, the working group will consider any substantial technical objections (see RFC 7282) as part of gaining consensus. For the design team to make this determination, it shall first understand the use-cases for homenet and derive routing requirements from those. Then it shall compare these routing requirements to candidate routing protocols and examine the gaps in each. For each highly plausible candidate routing protocol, the design team will estimate the work and actions needed, the resources at hand or reasonably available, and the associated timeline to get an acceptable, full, standardized solution using each protocol. I look forward also to estimates as to making it widely available as source code. Based upon this information and the perceived market timing needs of the technology, the design team will make its selection. The requirements, gaps, and reasoning will be documented. This document should be delivered by the July 2015 IETF. Regards, Alia ___ homenet mailing list homenet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet -- Dave Täht We CAN make better hardware, ourselves, beat bufferbloat, and take back control of the edge of the internet! If we work together, on making it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/onetswitch/onetswitch-open-source-hardware-for-networking ___ homenet mailing list homenet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet
