Re: [Hornlist] horn broken - This is awful advice
In a message dated 9/29/2005 12:46:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I got a little upset to see my advice described as 'awful', followed by a recommendation for a complete redesign of the valve. A bit overkill, sight unseen. And, I guess I've just seen the work of lesser shops too often, as I'm sure you have. Again I apologize if I over generalized. Since this has all been very public, and since I fired a shot I'll say that I think Bill's statements above more in line with the discussion. This should have been the sum and substance of his post, and I think he intended to make these points. Truly, advice on repairs given on this list can only be recommendations for further exploration, at best. Without seeing a problem first-hand it is difficult, maybe impossible, to know the true nature and extent of the situation. I would ask everyone, please give and accept advice in this spirit. Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] repairwork
Dear listers - some idle thoughts on the recent repair thread: throughout my years as a horn player I have sought to learn more about how my horn works [call me an equipment/techie nerd if you want] and always do as much as I can as regards maintaining and repairing my instruments. I fortunately never took the next step, e.g. valve acid cleaning, until I had researched and/or been taught how to do so. This probably resulted from lack of financing and simply an innate curiosity on my part. When I have the need I will take it to a repair shop, but only one I trust. Despite my own adventuresomeness I would hesitate to tell most high school kids to go and take apart their valves through the list, unless I could determine that someone would them while they do it. I feel we should encourage every horn player to learn all that they can about maintaining and basic repair, but that we should also encourage them to have a trained, respected tech do most things that honestly they have just the right equipment to do. der Perfesser and I once had a most lively online discussion about building a horn from Home Depot resources, and once we were able to clarify our perspectives on what the end result would be quality-wise, we parted on very congenial terms. [He even signed my copy of his Mozart concertos when I was able to meet him in person this year.]Personally I would love to be know and do everything that Mr. DeHaro and Ken Pope do about horns. But until I do, I will take any serious repairs issues to them, and know that I will get the best treatment.I know from personal experience that a binding valve can often be misplaced string tension, and it follows that a mechanically awkward linkage would probably cause even more of a p roblem. I think that Mr. DeHaros method, while not the easiest for him to perform, does solve the problem, not just postpone its recurrence. Which would you rather have - a permanent solution or a temporary cessation of the problem? On a personal note, I have had the pleasure of having discussions with Ken Pope, Dave Weiner, and Chris Huning from Paxman - all of whom are indeed honorable, congenial, upstanding people, and of course excellent horn technicians. One can sense from them a true love of the horn and the desire to make life as easy as possible for those who play it. Paxmaha - Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Broken Horn
Well... I've been away for a few days - and upon coming back I've read Bill B's comments. Certainly, I don't particularly care for his repair methods - eventually he'll end up screwing up his horn someway and will have to make his way over to one of us charlatans to resurrect his horn from all the damage he has done over the years. I trust that most of the players on this list have the sensibility to know who to trust and who to avoid when it comes to repair suggestions. (and those who don't will learn quickly). What completely irks me is how we have all been lumped together in a way that insinuates that we are cheats and liars. An apology is certainly due - to Stuart and every other technician out there. Sincerely, Ken Pope Just Put Your Lips Together And Blow http://www.poperepair.com US Dealer: Kuhn Horns Bonna Cases Pope Instrument Repair 80 Wenham Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 617-522-0532 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Broken Horn
Dear Friends --- In this world there are but 3 things I can do expertly: (1) Load the dishwasher with dirty dishes. (2) Stick that nasty little left-over sliver of almost used-up soap onto a brand-new bar of soap. (Waste not, want not.) (3) Repair, overhaul, rebuild Whirlpool Sears Kenmore electric gas clothes dryers. (Most of my dryer repairs rebuilds are mere parts replacements -- not actual repairs in the sense of fixing something that's truly broken, but never mind. The thing is knowing what part to replace, how to get at it, where to get the replacement part, how to install the replacement part, how to put everything back together good as new.) However that may be, I would no more try to fix my own out-of-commission horns than I would try to do my own brain surgery. Some things should be left to those who know what they're doing in my book fixing horns is high up in that category. Hats off to all the do-if-yourself horn fixers out there. But my real thanks appreciation are reserved for the professionals who know how to undo dents re-do valves all that other stuff it takes to make it possible for the rest of us to pucker up blow. -- Alan Cole, rank amateur McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ~ I trust that most of the players on this list have the sensibility to know who to trust and who to avoid when it comes to repair suggestions. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/114 - Release Date: 9/28/2005 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance
Hello listers. Since I'm in a conserving mood lately (with all the high gas prices), I'm putting two subjects in one email: 1) I'd like opinions on Blessing mouthpieces. My little sister is having to deal with her high school band director on this. Not only did he give the entire section at her school Blessings, but they have been altered by having the shank bent 90 degrees. This would make it easier to play the mellophone (I know, eeww!) with the bell towards the press box. She normally plays on a Holton MC. In fact, I want any opinions on how bending a mouthpiece is practical (or not) as well. No opinion refused. 2) After making good progress and a personal playing breakthrough over the past year, I noticed recently that the balance of my horn (Conn 8D), when playing, is not even. It seems like there's more weight towards the upper part of the horn, and when holding it, the leadpipe wants to dip. I've experiemented around with different ideas, and found that removing the first three valve caps made the horn balance better. Not having my moutpiece on (a Lawson) also made a difference. However, keeping the caps or mouthpiece off isn't practical. I'd like ideas on what I could do to add a little bit of weight to balance my horn. Fire away! Angela Gonzales - Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance
Forget about adding weight. Instead, to lighten the load, how about a few strategically tied helium balloons? -- Alan Cole, rank, amateur McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ~~~ I'd like ideas on what I could do to add a little bit of weight to balance my horn. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/114 - Release Date: 9/28/2005 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance
Hiya. Blessing mpces are inexpensive. 90 degrees?! Surely you jest. That would put the bells straight up in the air! Maybe 30 to 45 degrees bend? I would expect some alteration and damage to the sound but OK for mellophones. As to the weight thing, I think it is not very important. You HOLD the horn in playing position. Adding weight to it would increase your fatigue. Perhaps you need to grow 2 or 3 inches taller. That would shift the angle a little and make it feel more balanced for you. Or let the bell get off the thigh and fall a bit lower and farther to your right; that could shift it a little since you aren't likely to grow any more. Paul Mansur On Thursday, September 29, 2005, at 04:33 PM, Angela Gonzales wrote: Hello listers. Since I'm in a conserving mood lately (with all the high gas prices), I'm putting two subjects in one email: 1) I'd like opinions on Blessing mouthpieces. My little sister is having to deal with her high school band director on this. Not only did he give the entire section at her school Blessings, but they have been altered by having the shank bent 90 degrees. This would make it easier to play the mellophone (I know, eeww!) with the bell towards the press box. She normally plays on a Holton MC. In fact, I want any opinions on how bending a mouthpiece is practical (or not) as well. No opinion refused. 2) After making good progress and a personal playing breakthrough over the past year, I noticed recently that the balance of my horn (Conn 8D), when playing, is not even. It seems like there's more weight towards the upper part of the horn, and when holding it, the leadpipe wants to dip. I've experiemented around with different ideas, and found that removing the first three valve caps made the horn balance better. Not having my moutpiece on (a Lawson) also made a difference. However, keeping the caps or mouthpiece off isn't practical. I'd like ideas on what I could do to add a little bit of weight to balance my horn. Fire away! Angela Gonzales - Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/p_mansur1%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance
...or get a Pip Stick. Check out... http://www.pyp.f2s.com/html/pipstick.htm -- Alan Cole, rank amateur McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ~~ As to the weight thing, I think it is not very important. You HOLD the horn in playing position. Adding weight to it would increase your fatigue. Perhaps you need to grow 2 or 3 inches taller. That would shift the angle a little and make it feel more balanced for you. Or let the bell get off the thigh and fall a bit lower and farther to your right; that could shift it a little since you aren't likely to grow any more. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/114 - Release Date: 9/28/2005 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance
Hi Angela, If I were you, I'd pose this question over on the Yahoo list, since Tom Greer is a member. Im sure the Muus (his spelling) could be able to give you a lot of reasons why not to bend a mouthpiece. By the way, my business partner in my Brass Quintet, who is Principal Trumpet, had the shank bent on his Schilke Trumpet Mouthpiece, so I have heard of others doing this. I asked him how it effects his playing, and he not at all... Any idea as to what the Band director plays? It's amazing what these guys will do to have a winning Marching Band...sheesh... Walt Lewis At 01:33 PM 9/29/2005 -0700, you wrote: Hello listers. Since I'm in a conserving mood lately (with all the high gas prices), I'm putting two subjects in one email: 1) I'd like opinions on Blessing mouthpieces. My little sister is having to deal with her high school band director on this. Not only did he give the entire section at her school Blessings, but they have been altered by having the shank bent 90 degrees. This would make it easier to play the mellophone (I know, eeww!) with the bell towards the press box. She normally plays on a Holton MC. In fact, I want any opinions on how bending a mouthpiece is practical (or not) as well. No opinion refused. 2) After making good progress and a personal playing breakthrough over the past year, I noticed recently that the balance of my horn (Conn 8D), when playing, is not even. It seems like there's more weight towards the upper part of the horn, and when holding it, the leadpipe wants to dip. I've experiemented around with different ideas, and found that removing the first three valve caps made the horn balance better. Not having my moutpiece on (a Lawson) also made a difference. However, keeping the caps or mouthpiece off isn't practical. I'd like ideas on what I could do to add a little bit of weight to balance my horn. Fire away! Angela Gonzales - Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/wlewis9637%40wowway.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/114 - Release Date: 9/28/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/114 - Release Date: 9/28/2005 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance
The guy who came up with the Pip Stick also advises putting an 8-degree bend in the mouthpiece. Check out... http://freespace.virgin.net/pip.eastop/html/bent_mouthpiece.htm -- Alan Cole, rank amateur McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ~~~ By the way, my business partner in my Brass Quintet, who is Principal Trumpet, had the shank bent on his Schilke Trumpet Mouthpiece, so I have heard of others doing this. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/114 - Release Date: 9/28/2005 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpieces and Horn Balance
Angela, Without quoting your post: 1. Count your (Bent) Blessings: (One-One Thousand, Two-One Thousand) Blessings are used by band directors because they are cheap. It is my opinion that they are not good mouthpieces. I've tried them and lots of others, and the Blessings are rarely good for development or performance. My opinion, but there you are. Bending mouthpieces used to be a more common practice in repair shops (see repair manuals from the 1930's), and it was done to correct for dentition problems. With the advent of orthodontia en masse, it is rare to require a mouthpiece be bent. There are right and wrong ways to bend mouthpieces. The right way involves cutting a V into the shank at just the approriate place, then bending and brazing the mouthpiece back into a single unit. The wrong way is to just bend it. If a bad mouthpiece is bent and produces a worse mouthpiece, have you gained anything? Still, some band directors will do anything for the right effect on the field. Reminds me of Lt. Scheiskopf (that's his name, right?) from Catch-22, who was so obsessed with parades that he wanted to install bolts from the soldiers' arms to their hips to keep their arms from swinging. 2. Conn Flakes - a well-balanced meal: Horn balance can be an important issue for some people. Finke horns are designed especially to achieve the kind of balance you want in your 8D. You'll notice that each wrap of horn has its own peculiar balance issues. I am sure you'll get a lot of good suggestions about what to do to counter-balance the high center of gravity. Many different schemes could work, but I think you should try a strap, such as the Clebsch strap. It won't change the balance, but it will allow you to hold the horn more easily. There's a trombonist here in our town who has the most incredible contraptions soldered and glued to his horns to achieve a perfect balance. I guess it works, but it sure is goofy looking. Whenever I work on his horns I have to work around these Rube Goldberg-like devices. Not fun. Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
