Re: [Hornlist] Advice for a Noisy H179
Snip: Get a bottle with a needle, it's less messy. I get them at my local hobby shop for under $3.00 a bottle. I keep a few on hand for my students. They see me use mine regularily. Walt Lewis ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Advice for a Noisy H179
Most of the (amateur) hornists I know do 1), but not 2). If anything, 2), oiling the shaft on the stop arm is more important: that's where the wear and noise occurs. Get a bottle with a needle, it's less messy. And yes, Ken, getting some light, valve oil in the rotors is also extremely important. It keeps the green carbonate monster away. Herb Foster --- Jay Kosta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ... > The oil for the bearings must be placed in 2 places on each valve: > 1) on the bearing end under the screw-on valve cap > 2) a drop in the small gap between the 'swing-arm' and the bearing on the > other end of the valve - use an eye-dropper, or an extension tube on the > oil bottle. > ... __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Advice for a Noisy H179
Ken, Which slide greases do you like (break-down w/ valve oil)? Thanks, Fred - Original Message From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:26:46 AM Subject: [Hornlist] RE: Advice for a Noisy H179 Valerie: I can't stress enough how wrong your technician was who said to not put oil in the slides! The oil inserted internally isn't just done for lubrication's sake - it's also done to coat the bore of the horn so that the moisture doesn't come in contact with the brass. Also, remember that a large part of valve wear is when the green gunk (Copper carbonate) breaks off, and lodges in the valve casing - like sandpaper! Oiling internally keeps this from happening. Also - use a slide grease that DOES break down with valve oil. If your valves are getting sluggish its probably for 2 reasons: 1. Over use of the bearing oil 2. Using a slide grease that isn't breaking down with the oil. Sincerely Ken Pope (currently cleaning another horn full of copper carbonate from lack of internal oiling) "Just Put Your Lips Together And Blow" http://www.poperepair.com US Dealer: Kuhn Horns & Bonna Cases Pope Instrument Repair 80 Wenham Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 617-522-0532 ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/fbaucom%40sbcglobal.net ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Advice for a Noisy H179
You can also check out the products of musichem at http://www.musichem.com/index.htm Their valve oil has been discussed in this venue once or twice before. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jay Kosta Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:13 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Advice for a Noisy H179 I agree with Steve Mumford about trying a heavier weight oil on the bearing ends - but do not put heavy oil directly into any of the tubing. BUT for sluggish valves: If valve action is sluggish, then a quantity of lightweight valve oil can be put in the leadpipe and made to flow to the valves. The light oil will disovle and flush the old oil/grease from the rotor body that is making it sluggish. Empty the oil out thru the leadpipe as is done for water removal. Sometimes, synthetic oils/grease do not mix with petroleum based products - if you have used any synthetics, then you should follow the directions that came with them. The valves on my 2 horns (both are fairly old) click-clack when they need oiling. The oil for the bearings must be placed in 2 places on each valve: 1) on the bearing end under the screw-on valve cap 2) a drop in the small gap between the 'swing-arm' and the bearing on the other end of the valve - use an eye-dropper, or an extension tube on the oil bottle. For 'heavy oil', I recommend sewing machine oil. If that oil is too heavy, it can be thinned by mixing it with valve oil, or "Ultra-Pure, uncolored, unscented, Lamp Oil" (a very pure kerosene) that is available at K-Mart, Wal-mart, etc.). Everyone has favorite oils that work for them, you need to find a type and weight of oil that gives good valve action, and which also eliminates the valve noise. If there is still valve noise after applying heavy oil to the bearing ends, then it probably needs repair or adjustment. Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Advice for a Noisy H179
I agree with Steve Mumford about trying a heavier weight oil on the bearing ends - but do not put heavy oil directly into any of the tubing. BUT for sluggish valves: If valve action is sluggish, then a quantity of lightweight valve oil can be put in the leadpipe and made to flow to the valves. The light oil will disovle and flush the old oil/grease from the rotor body that is making it sluggish. Empty the oil out thru the leadpipe as is done for water removal. Sometimes, synthetic oils/grease do not mix with petroleum based products - if you have used any synthetics, then you should follow the directions that came with them. The valves on my 2 horns (both are fairly old) click-clack when they need oiling. The oil for the bearings must be placed in 2 places on each valve: 1) on the bearing end under the screw-on valve cap 2) a drop in the small gap between the 'swing-arm' and the bearing on the other end of the valve - use an eye-dropper, or an extension tube on the oil bottle. For 'heavy oil', I recommend sewing machine oil. If that oil is too heavy, it can be thinned by mixing it with valve oil, or "Ultra-Pure, uncolored, unscented, Lamp Oil" (a very pure kerosene) that is available at K-Mart, Wal-mart, etc.). Everyone has favorite oils that work for them, you need to find a type and weight of oil that gives good valve action, and which also eliminates the valve noise. If there is still valve noise after applying heavy oil to the bearing ends, then it probably needs repair or adjustment. Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Advice for a Noisy H179
Noise mostly occurs after fitting the valves, as they get more space to move "vertically" resulting in this "clack-clack". But this does not affect the playing too much, except one plays very rapid sixteenth passages (rarely) or machine-trills, when the horn might sound like a machinegun. Help ? New bearings ! The repairmen has to make new bearings (the plate behind the valve cap) and make a tighter tapered hole in the middle, to hinder the rotors vertical movement. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TED EVERITT Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 2:12 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Advice for a Noisy H179 Hello Horn Enthusiasts- I bought my daughter a used Holton H179... we had it reconditioned at a reputable music shop. It's a very nice horn with a rich sound, yet it seems to have an ongoing issue of noisy valves. Recently, she has been using Holton rotor oil and it seems even noisier. We've been putting a drop under each rotor cap on a fairly regular basis. The noise almost seems to have a "metal to metal" sound, even though there are new vinyl bumpers installed. I realize "the noise" will not go away completely with the H179... but I am asking if any of you have any tips which might help reduce "the noise." I am hopeful that there is a somewhat easy solution as she has a solo coming up in the next few weeks and I'd like to avoid major surgery at this time (I'm open to that as a longer term solution though) Thank you!! - TTE ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Advice for a Noisy H179
From: "TED EVERITT" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I bought my daughter a used Holton H179... we had it reconditioned at a reputable music shop. Hmmm, what does "reconditioned" mean? It's a very nice horn with a rich sound, yet it seems to have an ongoing issue of noisy valves. Recently, she has been using Holton rotor oil and it seems even noisier. We've been putting a drop under each rotor cap on a fairly regular basis. The noise almost seems to have a "metal to metal" sound, even though there are new vinyl bumpers installed. The serious problem is not noise. The serious problem is compression and/or bearing wear. When your shop reconditioned the horn, did they mention the compression of the valves? There are two easy you-can-do-this-at-home tests for the condition of valves: For each of the 6 valve slides, and for the Bb tuning slide, remove the slide and reinsert, creating pressure in the slide tube. Wait a second or two and then depress the associated valve. If you don't hear a pop, the valve is leaky and needs to be replated or rebuilt. Actually, you can hear air escaping around a leaky valve when you insert a slide even without depressing the valve. An oiled valve in good condition should not leak air. For each of the four valves, seize the valve spindle (the thing the cord goes around) and see if you can wiggle it. Try this with the value both in rest position and depressed position. If there is any play in the valves (especially if you can duplicate the valve noise) then the valve bearings are shot and need to be replaced. I realize "the noise" will not go away completely with the H179... but I am asking if any of you have any tips which might help reduce "the noise." I am hopeful that there is a somewhat easy solution as she has a solo coming up in the next few weeks and I'd like to avoid major surgery at this time (I'm open to that as a longer term solution though) Thank you!! If the valves pass these serious (synonym for expensive-to-fix) tests, then there are other places where valve mechanism can produce noise. See if anything is loose on the lever bearing shaft (the rod the strings are wrapped around) and perhaps try putting some heavier oil on the springs. But most valve noise, at least on string activated valves, is caused by worn rotors or worn bearings. The problem is _not_ the noise, since you will only hear it when you are thinking about it. The problem is that worn valves do not seal adequately, and this will seriously degrade the notches in the high range. (In engineering terms, the leaks reduce the Q of the horn as resonator.) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Advice for a Noisy H179
Hello Horn Enthusiasts- I bought my daughter a used Holton H179... we had it reconditioned at a reputable music shop. It's a very nice horn with a rich sound, yet it seems to have an ongoing issue of noisy valves. Recently, she has been using Holton rotor oil and it seems even noisier. We've been putting a drop under each rotor cap on a fairly regular basis. The noise almost seems to have a "metal to metal" sound, even though there are new vinyl bumpers installed. I realize "the noise" will not go away completely with the H179... but I am asking if any of you have any tips which might help reduce "the noise." I am hopeful that there is a somewhat easy solution as she has a solo coming up in the next few weeks and I'd like to avoid major surgery at this time (I'm open to that as a longer term solution though) Thank you!! - TTE ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
