[Hornlist] OT: Tuba in Bb or C
Steve, Look for a 3/4 sized tuba for your son. There are even some models out there with 4 valves, like the Meinl Weston model 11, which is even convertible to a marching bass. Yamaha makes the YBB 103 and 105, but they only have 3 valves (at least I think those are the model numbers.) The Meinl Weston is what my son played until high school. I wanted him to have that 4th valve, but honestly I don't think he ever used it. ;)Euphonium or baritone is a possibility, but not really a good substitute due to mouthpiece and range considerations. I would try to find a good, used 3/4 size BBb tuba until your son is big enough to handle the real thing. CC is not a good solution, either, because of size and cost. If he's serious, he can move up to a CC in high school and just deal with the change in fingerings for a summer. Kids ought to learn transposition and different fingerings, anyway. -- Regards, Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited Our new mailing address: 1810-A York Road, #182 Lutherville, MD 21093 www.brassarts.com ++(1) (410) 866-1587 ++(1) (443) 730-2464 fax ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] OT: Tuba in Bb or C
I think that's the plan - Dillon Music has their own, Chinese-made, small-size BBb tuba that seems to get a lot of positive comments from people, so _if_ he decides on tuba (the other choice is currently piano), I think that's what we'll do. They sell for $995 and you can't beat that. http://www.dillonmusic.com/HeleoCart/ProductPage/DMB-995.aspx -S- -Original Message- From: Brass Arts Unlimited [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 2:35 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] OT: Tuba in Bb or C Steve, Look for a 3/4 sized tuba for your son. There are even some models out there with 4 valves, like the Meinl Weston model 11, which is even convertible to a marching bass. Yamaha makes the YBB 103 and 105, but they only have 3 valves (at least I think those are the model numbers.) The Meinl Weston is what my son played until high school. I wanted him to have that 4th valve, but honestly I don't think he ever used it. ;)Euphonium or baritone is a possibility, but not really a good substitute due to mouthpiece and range considerations. I would try to find a good, used 3/4 size BBb tuba until your son is big enough to handle the real thing. CC is not a good solution, either, because of size and cost. If he's serious, he can move up to a CC in high school and just deal with the change in fingerings for a summer. Kids ought to learn transposition and different fingerings, anyway. -- Regards, Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited Our new mailing address: 1810-A York Road, #182 Lutherville, MD 21093 www.brassarts.com ++(1) (410) 866-1587 ++(1) (443) 730-2464 fax ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve%40fridays computer.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1773 - Release Date: 11/11/2008 8:59 AM ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] OT: Tuba in Bb or C
Steve Freides wrote: Size is something of an issue in that he's 5 feet tall now (that's about a 1.53 meters) and just 12 years old. --- In our orchestra we had a tubist for a couple of concerts who was a petite young woman barely 5' 2 tall and of slender build. She played a very large instrument and said it made her look like a tuba with arms and legs - indeed she was often invisible when the instrument was in playing position. She played quite well. I regretted that we never got to play Tubby the Tuba with her, because our piccolo player at the time was a very nice lady who stood 6' 1 tall. Anyway, if there is a will, there will be a way. Richard Hirsh, Chicago ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] OT: Tuba in Bb or C
Cost is a factor in buying a tuba, but I don’t think cost decides the pitch as much as does the musical needs of the player. Within the bass tubas national traditions determine between F and Eb. The same goes for the choice between CC and BBb within the contrabass tubas. Each pitch comes in almost indefinite permutations beween smaller or larger bore and between various diameters of the bells. The bells may be almost without flare or have a wide flare. Rotary valves or pistons influence the playing feel very much. The main German orchestral tuba is in F with some heavy repertory being played on the BBb. The main American orchestral tuba is in CC with some high repertory (Berlioz) being played on the F or more rarely on the Eb. The main British orchestral tuba is in Eb with the CC getting wider usage with younger generations of tubists. In the US tubists strive to have a small F for solo work and a larger F for orchestral work plus a small CC for solo/quintet work and a large CC for orchestral work. The sousaphone (mostly in Eb or BBb) is an American marching/band variant of the tuba. However the famous Chicago CSO York CC tubas by some are considered to be heavily inspired by the largest and best sousaphones. I find tubas sufficiently interesting to have 7 of them in my living room along with 3 sousaphones. Pitches are F, Eb, CC, and BBb. Yet I will stop here. Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre (who still has more horns than tubas) --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Steve Freides [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Steve Freides [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Hornlist] OT: Tuba in Bb or C To: 'The Horn List' horn@music.memphis.edu Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 11:40 PM Apologies for a brass- but not horn-related query. I know trumpet players start with a Bb instrument and often continue with a Bb instrument for band work but a C instrument for a lot (most?) orchestral work. My son is a high-school trumpeter and, for now, his teacher prefers he practice transposing the C parts to owning and using a C trumpet, but I know a lot of orchestral playing is done on these. I'm wondering if tuba players do the same, namely own a C tuba for orchestral playing. If you're wondering why I'm asking, it's because I was looking at a brass instrument web site and noticed that baritones/euphoniums, which are band-only instruments, seem to come only in Bb but tubas seems to exist in Bb, Eb (for reasons of size and cost, as I understand it) and C, which I'm assuming are for orchestral work. Thanks. Horn content: Yesterday, I got back from the shop my second Conn 4D (which I picked up from ebay for next to nothing and had fixed up). This one is from 1960 and sounds appreciably better than my other 4D which is from 1923. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] OT: Tuba in Bb or C
-Original Message- From: Brass Arts Unlimited [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 2:42 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] OT: Tuba in Bb or C Of course, Klaus is right about the tuba usage in most respects. In the US, almost all elementary and secondary playing is done on the BBb contrabass tuba. Serious students acquire a CC contrabass either in high school (almost exclusive if one has a private teacher preparing one for college auditions), but almost certainly in college. The serious tuba student learns the CC for use in the orchestra, and rarely switches back to the BBb. -snip- Is there any reason not to start on a CC tuba instead of a BBb? One of the reasons I'm trying to educate myself is that the youngest of my two boys, who has been playing the oboe for a few years but not really loving it, has expressed interest in a brass instrument and specifically mentioned tuba. Size is something of an issue in that he's 5 feet tall now (that's about a 1.53 meters) and just 12 years old. A CC instrument, all other things being equal, would be a little smaller, no? -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] OT: Tuba in Bb or C
Most guys start on baritones them move down or up to tuba Debbie Schmidt Sent from my iPhone On Nov 9, 2008, at 4:24 PM, Steve Freides [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Brass Arts Unlimited [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 2:42 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] OT: Tuba in Bb or C Of course, Klaus is right about the tuba usage in most respects. In the US, almost all elementary and secondary playing is done on the BBb contrabass tuba. Serious students acquire a CC contrabass either in high school (almost exclusive if one has a private teacher preparing one for college auditions), but almost certainly in college. The serious tuba student learns the CC for use in the orchestra, and rarely switches back to the BBb. -snip- Is there any reason not to start on a CC tuba instead of a BBb? One of the reasons I'm trying to educate myself is that the youngest of my two boys, who has been playing the oboe for a few years but not really loving it, has expressed interest in a brass instrument and specifically mentioned tuba. Size is something of an issue in that he's 5 feet tall now (that's about a 1.53 meters) and just 12 years old. A CC instrument, all other things being equal, would be a little smaller, no? -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/jasoncat%40aol.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] OT: Tuba in Bb or C
As CC sousaphones are extremely rare, the BBb instrument reading from concert bass clef cannot be avoided if marching band comes up. I consider my euphonium a tenor tuba, but that approach is not supported by the music youngsters will meet if playing euphonium or baritone. Eb tubas were used in US bands until some 50 years ago, because they made for an easy transfer of players used to reading treble clef brasses: remove 3 flats/add 3 sharps and you are up and running. I consider small Eb tubas good starter instruments. They can be handled and they say enough to support small ensembles. Sadly the American small ones are not well in tune, and the British ones have become rare. For odd reasons Yamaha doesn’t make small Eb tubas. Weril used to have a 4 piston front action small Eb, but a change of US importer has driven the prices way too far up, so I am not even sure they are imported to the US any more. My main Eb is a Besson Sovereign like those used in UK orchestras. Too laarge for a beginner. My small Eb is very playable, but too fragile for kids. It isn’t marketed any more anyway, as it is a 3+1 piston Besson made in 1870. My 2 Conn Eb sousaphones with 3 and 4 valves respectively are very good, but also very heavy for a kid. If you can find Eb sousaphones by King or Reynolds then these are smaller. They were used by the only ever all female band of the US army. The 4 valve versions are heavier, but low range intonation is much more attractive. Most CC tubas are intended for the professional market. The price level is way higher than for instruments in Eb or BBb. Of course this is a rant, but I just have told tubists about horns. One poster thought it was the stopping valve that created that piercing sound. Klaus --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Jerry Houston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Jerry Houston [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Hornlist] OT: Tuba in Bb or C To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 11:10 PM On Sunday 09 November 2008 13:24:15 Steve Freides wrote: Is there any reason not to start on a CC tuba instead of a BBb? Makes perfect sense to me. When I played Sousaphone for one marching season in high school, bass clef was easy enough for me to read, due to 3+ years of piano lessons. But reading bass clef and transposing written-for-C music to a BBb instrument added more challenge than I would have liked. A CC instrument would have made it a whole lot easier transition. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/yorkmasterbbb%40yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] OT: Tuba in Bb or C
On Sunday 09 November 2008 13:24:15 Steve Freides wrote: Is there any reason not to start on a CC tuba instead of a BBb? Makes perfect sense to me. When I played Sousaphone for one marching season in high school, bass clef was easy enough for me to read, due to 3+ years of piano lessons. But reading bass clef and transposing written-for-C music to a BBb instrument added more challenge than I would have liked. A CC instrument would have made it a whole lot easier transition. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] OT: Tuba in Bb or C
Of course, Klaus is right about the tuba usage in most respects. In the US, almost all elementary and secondary playing is done on the BBb contrabass tuba. Serious students acquire a CC contrabass either in high school (almost exclusive if one has a private teacher preparing one for college auditions), but almost certainly in college. The serious tuba student learns the CC for use in the orchestra, and rarely switches back to the BBb. For bass tuba, the F tuba is the popular choice to switch to from the CC, mainly due to the similarity of fingerings. Similarly for the BBb tuba, one often pairs it with the Eb bass tuba. However, many F tubas have squirrelly intonation issues, and the CC and Eb pairing is widely used among tubists, as well. I believe the Vaughan Williams concerto lays under the fingers beautifully on Eb tuba. Cost is usually not the main consideration. It's a tool to do a job, so you get the best tool for the job. -- Regards, Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited Our new mailing address: 1810-A York Road, #182 Lutherville, MD 21093 www.brassarts.com ++(1) (410) 866-1587 ++(1) (443) 730-2464 fax ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] OT: Tuba in Bb or C
Apologies for a brass- but not horn-related query. I know trumpet players start with a Bb instrument and often continue with a Bb instrument for band work but a C instrument for a lot (most?) orchestral work. My son is a high-school trumpeter and, for now, his teacher prefers he practice transposing the C parts to owning and using a C trumpet, but I know a lot of orchestral playing is done on these. I'm wondering if tuba players do the same, namely own a C tuba for orchestral playing. If you're wondering why I'm asking, it's because I was looking at a brass instrument web site and noticed that baritones/euphoniums, which are band-only instruments, seem to come only in Bb but tubas seems to exist in Bb, Eb (for reasons of size and cost, as I understand it) and C, which I'm assuming are for orchestral work. Thanks. Horn content: Yesterday, I got back from the shop my second Conn 4D (which I picked up from ebay for next to nothing and had fixed up). This one is from 1960 and sounds appreciably better than my other 4D which is from 1923. -S- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1773 - Release Date: 11/8/2008 9:56 AM ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] OT: Tuba in Bb or C
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuba#Types_and_construction Yes, it is Wikipedia, but it gives a good overview of the different types and uses of tubas. It varies worldwide Ben --- On Sat, 11/8/08, Steve Freides [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Steve Freides [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Hornlist] OT: Tuba in Bb or C To: 'The Horn List' horn@music.memphis.edu Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 3:40 PM Apologies for a brass- but not horn-related query. I know trumpet players start with a Bb instrument and often continue with a Bb instrument for band work but a C instrument for a lot (most?) orchestral work. My son is a high-school trumpeter and, for now, his teacher prefers he practice transposing the C parts to owning and using a C trumpet, but I know a lot of orchestral playing is done on these. I'm wondering if tuba players do the same, namely own a C tuba for orchestral playing. If you're wondering why I'm asking, it's because I was looking at a brass instrument web site and noticed that baritones/euphoniums, which are band-only instruments, seem to come only in Bb but tubas seems to exist in Bb, Eb (for reasons of size and cost, as I understand it) and C, which I'm assuming are for orchestral work. Thanks. Horn content: Yesterday, I got back from the shop my second Conn 4D (which I picked up from ebay for next to nothing and had fixed up). This one is from 1960 and sounds appreciably better than my other 4D which is from 1923. -S- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1773 - Release Date: 11/8/2008 9:56 AM ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/corno42%40yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
