[Hornlist] Re: Speed of Sound [correction]
Travelling slower doesn't mean it'll be quieter. Actually density isn't the only factor (sound travels faster in water than air, for example). Insulation works on a different basis - polysterene sheets, for example, work because sound scatters as it passes from one material to another. Put lots of interfaces like that together and the sound can be lost completely. A vacumn insulates because there are no vibrating molecules to carry the sound, and thick glass works because the whole material vibrates with the sound (and so the energy goes into conpressing the glass and isn't transmitted like with a metal sheet. That's why a polysterene horn isn't a good idea (although if mellophones were all made from it, the world would be a lot more tunefull). Glass horns could be fun - what better way to end a dramatic solo than having your horn shatter as you hit the top D? Tim (also an ex-low temp physicist) Paul Mansur wrote: Sound (vibration) will travel slower through denser materials. That's my guess. It's been a few years. I think it's the other way 'round. Otherwise we would use cast iron for sound insulation material. Cheers, Paul Mansur ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Speed of Sound [correction]
According to my physics textbooks I just read that the frequency itself does not change with a change in air temperature although the speed of the air changes. Yet we know there is a Doppler effect. I'm not really sure why that is so if anyone wants to explain it, feel free. -William Of course these are also my own musings, and I could be very wrong... so who knows? -William In a message dated 11/17/2003 7:55:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Subj: [Hornlist] Re: Speed of Sound Date: 11/17/2003 7:55:06 AM Pacific Standard Time From: A HREF=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/A Reply-to: A HREF=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/A To: A HREF=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/A Sent from the Internet In a message dated 11/15/03 1:00:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,Herb Foster writes: I had to pull the slide out because of the laws of physics, not my emouchure. Increasing the temperature from 40 deg F to 100 deg F (4 deg C to 33 deg C) increases the speed of sound by 5%. Hi Herb, How does the speed of sound affect the frequency of the pitch? (not an attack, just curious!) -Steve Mumford ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/valkhorn%40aol.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Speed of Sound [correction]
On Monday, November 17, 2003, at 11:29 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yet we know there is a Doppler effect. It is my understanding that the Doppler effect is heard only when there is motion by the sound source (toward or away from) the point of perception, or vice versa, when the point of perception moves in relation to the sound source. CORdially, Paul Mansur ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Speed of Sound [correction]
Ah. So why is there such a change in pitch with changes in air temperature inside the Horn? It cannot be because of the metal expanding or contracting since it doesn't do it enough to cause that much of a difference, plus that would change the pitch oppositely to how it normally behaves with temperature. I think this is what Herb was getting at, and my Physics knowledge is limited, so any explanation to why this is so would be great :P -William In a message dated 11/17/2003 9:02:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Subj: Re: [Hornlist] Re: Speed of Sound [correction] Date: 11/17/2003 9:02:57 AM Pacific Standard Time From: A HREF=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/A Reply-to: A HREF=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/A To: A HREF=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/A Sent from the Internet On Monday, November 17, 2003, at 11:29 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yet we know there is a Doppler effect. It is my understanding that the Doppler effect is heard only when there is motion by the sound source (toward or away from) the point of perception, or vice versa, when the point of perception moves in relation to the sound source. CORdially, Paul Mansur ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/valkhorn%40aol.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Speed of Sound [correction]
Paul - if I remember my high school physics, I believe you are correct. To state is anothe way, the Doppler effect is only heard by the stationary listener as the sound source moves towards him/her, then past him/her. The source of the sound will only perceive a steady tone. Incidentally, this can help one understand the theory of general relativity as it describes the time discrepancies experienced by a space traveler and an observer on the ground. (I've been reading my Isaac Asimov essays once again - it can make you a little overwhelmed to think that you may actually be able to somewhat understand the universe.) paxmaha Paul Mansur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday, November 17, 2003, at 11:29 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yet we know there is a Doppler effect. It is my understanding that the Doppler effect is heard only when there is motion by the sound source (toward or away from) the point of perception, or vice versa, when the point of perception moves in relation to the sound source. CORdially, Paul Mansur - Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Speed of Sound [correction]
This change is not the Doppler effect, but a change of the basic frequency. There is no frequency change with Doppler; it is perception only that changes. Cheers, Paul Mansur On Monday, November 17, 2003, at 12:15 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah. So why is there such a change in pitch with changes in air temperature inside the Horn? ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Speed of Sound [correction]
Air density varies inversely proportional to temperature? Sound (vibration) will travel slower through denser materials. That's my guess. It's been a few years. Ah. So why is there such a change in pitch with changes in air temperature inside the Horn? Shane McLaughlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2nd, Knoxville ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Speed of Sound [correction]
On Monday, November 17, 2003, at 01:46 PM, Shane McLaughlin wrote: Sound (vibration) will travel slower through denser materials. That's my guess. It's been a few years. I think it's the other way 'round. Otherwise we would use cast iron for sound insulation material. Cheers, Paul Mansur ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
