Re: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines
Regarding the TSA letter. When I was confronted with my horn by a certain overly sassy stewardess, she said Well, we don't have time to check on that, so just get on the plane. I had an earful, but my horn was safe. The better method is to humbly ask to put the horn in the crew's locker because you didn't know it wouldn't fit and it's too valuable and fragile to check. When I did this, I also made sure I was the last person on the plane, so I wouldn't hold up everyone else. The way I see it, my horn is the single most expensive thing I own, (including my car), so under no circumstances will I allow it to be checked under the plane. Make up any excuse to keep that horn from being mangled by the airlines. Chris --- Carlberg Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 4:25 PM -0600 3/14/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The AFM letter only details what the TSA must allow through its screening process. It does NOT mandate that the airlines allow you to carry the instrument on-board. Hi, Ron - The TSA letter doesn't seem to limit itself to AFM members. I have use it several times, but generally haven't needed to do so. The TSA letter dated January 17, 2003 says, in part, On December 20, 2002, TSA instructed aircraft operators that effective immediately, they are to allow musical instruments as carry-on baggage in addition to the limit of one bag and one personal item per person as carry-on baggage on an aircraft. For me, the only place I've needed to be careful is on entering the plane itself, nowhere else. And, as has been said, a smile and a polite request have always netted a place for my horn in a closet. Regards, Carlberg P.S. If anyone wants a PDF file of that letter, just let me know. Carlberg Jones Guanajuato, Gto. MEXICO ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/tedesccj%40yahoo.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines
Some people notice a difference in the sound, good or bad. For those who think it's not as good as a cut bwll, I suppose to them that's the downside. Personally, I'm not sure. I had a 668V cut and it played BETTER. The ring rounded out the metal a bit, so maybe that's why. When you have such work done on your horn, you always run a risk of not liking the result. Having said that, I'd have no qualms int he future of having the bell on a horn of mine cut by a seasoned professional. The travelling benefits to me are very important. Chris --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any downside to a screw -bell? What about having a fixed bell converted to screw on? Any downside to that? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/tedesccj%40yahoo.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines
Do any traveling professionals board airplanes with only back-up or alternate horns that pack conveniently? I'd imagine someone who owns a horn that is either irreplaceable or simply darned expensive might find a more common horn acceptable for the occasional TDY. One of these could still be insured, and if lost, stolen, or mangled would be much less of a loss to the owner. -Original Message- From: Chris Tedesco [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 9:38 PM To: The Horn List Subject:Re: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines Regarding the TSA letter. When I was confronted with my horn by a certain overly sassy stewardess, she said Well, we don't have time to check on that, so just get on the plane. I had an earful, but my horn was safe. The better method is to humbly ask to put the horn in the crew's locker because you didn't know it wouldn't fit and it's too valuable and fragile to check. When I did this, I also made sure I was the last person on the plane, so I wouldn't hold up everyone else. The way I see it, my horn is the single most expensive thing I own, (including my car), so under no circumstances will I allow it to be checked under the plane. Make up any excuse to keep that horn from being mangled by the airlines. Chris ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines
If you expect trouble when checking in for your flight, you can prevent this by informing the airline in advance, that you have to carry your valuable musical instrument on board. That is official and it works. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of arsmiley Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 4:45 AM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines Do any traveling professionals board airplanes with only back-up or alternate horns that pack conveniently? I'd imagine someone who owns a horn that is either irreplaceable or simply darned expensive might find a more common horn acceptable for the occasional TDY. One of these could still be insured, and if lost, stolen, or mangled would be much less of a loss to the owner. -Original Message- From: Chris Tedesco [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 9:38 PM To: The Horn List Subject:Re: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines Regarding the TSA letter. When I was confronted with my horn by a certain overly sassy stewardess, she said Well, we don't have time to check on that, so just get on the plane. I had an earful, but my horn was safe. The better method is to humbly ask to put the horn in the crew's locker because you didn't know it wouldn't fit and it's too valuable and fragile to check. When I did this, I also made sure I was the last person on the plane, so I wouldn't hold up everyone else. The way I see it, my horn is the single most expensive thing I own, (including my car), so under no circumstances will I allow it to be checked under the plane. Make up any excuse to keep that horn from being mangled by the airlines. Chris ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines
Is there any downside to a screw -bell? What about having a fixed bell converted to screw on? Any downside to that? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines
Is there any downside to a screw -bell? Simply for the convenience of the case I like a cut bell horn. A friend, however, noted that every time he wants to put the horn down for an unattended moment he has to disassemble the horn to get it back into the case. Having once had my assembled horn, with the open case that it rested upon, fall from a chair and wrinkle the bell, I learned the hard way that his concern is valid. What about having a fixed bell converted to screw on? Any downside to that? Well there's the cost of the conversion and the cost of the new case. Russ Smiley Marlborough, CT -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 3:00 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject:Re: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines Is there any downside to a screw -bell? What about having a fixed bell converted to screw on? Any downside to that? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/arsmiley%40usadatanet.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines
When you are at home, you can continue to use the convenience of the fixed bell case; that way you don't have to keep unscrewing the bell umptyumpt times every week. Loren -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of arsmiley Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 1:13 PM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines Is there any downside to a screw -bell? Simply for the convenience of the case I like a cut bell horn. A friend, however, noted that every time he wants to put the horn down for an unattended moment he has to disassemble the horn to get it back into the case. Having once had my assembled horn, with the open case that it rested upon, fall from a chair and wrinkle the bell, I learned the hard way that his concern is valid. What about having a fixed bell converted to screw on? Any downside to that? Well there's the cost of the conversion and the cost of the new case. Russ Smiley Marlborough, CT -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 3:00 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject:Re: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines Is there any downside to a screw -bell? What about having a fixed bell converted to screw on? Any downside to that? ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/arsmiley%40usadatanet.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/loren%40mayhews.us ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines
I think what TSA is saying is that it is not requiring airlines to ban instruments as carry-on. This is different from telling them that airlines must require it be placed with hold baggage. It does not restrict airlines from imposing other requirements such as an instrument that could block an emergency exit, etc. Just my opinion of the subject. With same you can get a cup of coffee at Starbucks for $5.00, without this opinion the coffee will only cost you $3.00 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Pollack Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 10:35 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines Now I'm confused. Carlberg seems to be saying that the TSA letter to the airlines requires them to allow any and all instruments as a carry-on. The TSA policy on the Web site specifically says, the air carrier determines whether an instrument meets the size requirements for their aircraft. Certainly the TSA can't be saying that an airline has to allow a tuba, a string bass or even a tympani as a carry-on (at least without buying another seat for it). So, what's the real scoop here? Must airlines allow an instrument as a carry-on regardless of size restrictions that apply to everything else? Or will folks here never quite agree? Matt Pollack Topsham, Maine Fred Baucom wrote: Thanks, Carlberghaven't looked at it recently but thought the letter mentioned instruments allowed as carry-ons.after Ron's note, was thinking of getting checked for Alzheimer's... Fred Carlberg Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 4:25 PM -0600 3/14/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The AFM letter only details what the TSA must allow through its screening process. It does NOT mandate that the airlines allow you to carry the instrument on-board. Hi, Ron - The TSA letter doesn't seem to limit itself to AFM members. I have use it several times, but generally haven't needed to do so. The TSA letter dated January 17, 2003 says, in part, On December 20, 2002, TSA instructed aircraft operators that effective immediately, they are to allow musical instruments as carry-on baggage in addition to the limit of one bag and one personal item per person as carry-on baggage on an aircraft. For me, the only place I've needed to be careful is on entering the plane itself, nowhere else. And, as has been said, a smile and a polite request have always netted a place for my horn in a closet. Regards, Carlberg P.S. If anyone wants a PDF file of that letter, just let me know. Carlberg Jones Guanajuato, Gto. MEXICO ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/fbaucom%40sbcglobal.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/mpollack%40gwi.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines
In a message dated 3/15/2005 6:43:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think what TSA is saying is that it is not requiring airlines to ban instruments as carry-on. This is different from telling them that airlines must require it be placed with hold baggage. It does not restrict airlines from imposing other requirements such as an instrument that could block an emergency exit, etc. You're very close to mark, here. Airlines cannot automatically bar an instrument from being carried on just because it's an instrument. They cannot count it against your carry-on quota as anything other than another carry-on item. They must inspect it if you ask to carry it on. In other words, they can't require you to check it just because it's a musical instrument. Other than that, they can restrict it for size reasons, or any other criterion as far as what can go into the cabin with you. Airlines have a good deal of discretion in this regard, and it's mostly because of the size of the instrument. Oversize instruments, such as tubas, are allowed in the cabin, but because of their size the airline can (and does) require you buy a seat for it. A tymp cannot go into a cabin, period. It's too big for any commercial passenger cabin. Horns are just one of those gray area size items - often just a little bit too big for a carry-on, but not so big that they will recoil in horror at the size of it. As most have mentioned, a lot depends on how full the plane is and how tired the crew are. Oddly, crews will very often happily allow violins and violas, despite the fact that the cases are always too long for the carry-on guidelines. You almost never hear of a violinist being asked to check their instrument. But the crews' attitudes towards horns varies widely. Curious. Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines
At 4:25 PM -0600 3/14/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The AFM letter only details what the TSA must allow through its screening process. It does NOT mandate that the airlines allow you to carry the instrument on-board. Hi, Ron - The TSA letter doesn't seem to limit itself to AFM members. I have use it several times, but generally haven't needed to do so. The TSA letter dated January 17, 2003 says, in part, On December 20, 2002, TSA instructed aircraft operators that effective immediately, they are to allow musical instruments as carry-on baggage in addition to the limit of one bag and one personal item per person as carry-on baggage on an aircraft. For me, the only place I've needed to be careful is on entering the plane itself, nowhere else. And, as has been said, a smile and a polite request have always netted a place for my horn in a closet. Regards, Carlberg P.S. If anyone wants a PDF file of that letter, just let me know. Carlberg Jones Guanajuato, Gto. MEXICO ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines
Thanks; I was wondering what us rat members of the list could do to get good information. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 4:25 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines The AFM letter only details what the TSA must allow through its screening process. It does NOT mandate that the airlines allow you to carry the instrument on-board. And since I was scolded by an AFM member for having the temerity to refer to the taxpayer-funded response to that organization when this topic came up last, I would recommend non-AFM members refer to the TSA's own policy statment, which can be found at: http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?content=0900051980069ab5 Note especially the following statement: Air carriers may or may not allow the additional carry-on item on their aircraft. Please check with your air carrier prior to arriving at the airport. Regards, Ron Boerger ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: fixed bell and airlines
Now I'm confused. Carlberg seems to be saying that the TSA letter to the airlines requires them to allow any and all instruments as a carry-on. The TSA policy on the Web site specifically says, the air carrier determines whether an instrument meets the size requirements for their aircraft. Certainly the TSA can't be saying that an airline has to allow a tuba, a string bass or even a tympani as a carry-on (at least without buying another seat for it). So, what's the real scoop here? Must airlines allow an instrument as a carry-on regardless of size restrictions that apply to everything else? Or will folks here never quite agree? Matt Pollack Topsham, Maine Fred Baucom wrote: Thanks, Carlberghaven't looked at it recently but thought the letter mentioned instruments allowed as carry-ons.after Ron's note, was thinking of getting checked for Alzheimer's... Fred Carlberg Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 4:25 PM -0600 3/14/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The AFM letter only details what the TSA must allow through its screening process. It does NOT mandate that the airlines allow you to carry the instrument on-board. Hi, Ron - The TSA letter doesn't seem to limit itself to AFM members. I have use it several times, but generally haven't needed to do so. The TSA letter dated January 17, 2003 says, in part, On December 20, 2002, TSA instructed aircraft operators that effective immediately, they are to allow musical instruments as carry-on baggage in addition to the limit of one bag and one personal item per person as carry-on baggage on an aircraft. For me, the only place I've needed to be careful is on entering the plane itself, nowhere else. And, as has been said, a smile and a polite request have always netted a place for my horn in a closet. Regards, Carlberg P.S. If anyone wants a PDF file of that letter, just let me know. Carlberg Jones Guanajuato, Gto. MEXICO ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/fbaucom%40sbcglobal.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/mpollack%40gwi.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
