Re: [HOT] Fwd: huts.

[Pierre Béland]

I had a session tonight with Fofana from Burkina Faso. He his familiar with 
this type of habitat that we can also see in Burkina villages. 

We examined the villages in the Kandia area. In the Kandia area, we see a lot 
of fields with lighter colors. We often find small habitats in what looks like 
fields. The habitat is als very dispersed with often a few houses. If there are 
square houses, it is easier to find the hamlets. But if only huts, we have to 
zoom-in more to assure that there are houses. 

Zooming-in enough, we can make easily the distinction between the big and 
smaller huts. The smaller ones are the granaries and the larger the permanent 
houses.

This global view shows how disperse is the habitat with small hamlets in this 
area.  
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/10.1476/-12.857
This link clearly shows permanent housing in large 
huts.https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/10.189236/-12.853813
This link cleary shows the difference between the granaries (smaller huts) and 
houses.https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/10.163169/-12.863288  
In this area, it is hard to spot all the small hamlets if we do not zoom 
enough.https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/10.127034/-12.845559

 If you want to see more examples, look on Youtube. Search for West africa 
villages or for mud huts. You should see various examples.  Pierre 


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Re: [HOT] Fwd: huts.

[Pierre Béland]

Look also at this thread in december this same subject where I provided some 
links to images.Humanitarian OpenStreetMap (HOT) - [Feature Interpretation] 
#817 - Guinea, Kankan East
 Pierre 

  De : Severin Menard 
 À : Rod Bera  
Cc : "hot@openstreetmap.org"  
 Envoyé le : Mardi 17 février 2015 11h14
 Objet : Re: [HOT] Fwd: huts.
   
Hi,

To get an idea of what look like the huts you may find hard to identify on the 
imagery,
you can have a look on this video of a small plane landing on Zemio airstrip in 
Central African Republic, especially just before the plane lands. It shows well 
what you can see here. And you figure out that the round brown shapes are 
obvious nice huts. I put that on Zemio TM job to help the contributors: usually 
when creating a job I check if there is no video showing the situation from the 
ground. In South Sudan it made me figure out what I thought were walls are 
actually wooden fences.

Sincerely,

Severin

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Rod Bera  wrote:

 

 Hi John and everyone,
 
 These huts definitely are for living. 
 
 Again (see my e-email below), the bigger ones are permanent shelters i.e. 
homes. 
 The smaller ones are strorage (granaries), containing food for a whole family 
(or more) for a whole year (in the best of cases, just after harvesting) or 
less (depending on time in year and amounts of previous harvest. One or two 
successive bad harvests most likely means famine).
 
 These huts (or squared equivalents) are the only possible housing when people 
live 

   - with less than $2.15 a day (as is the case for 516 millions in Sub-Saharan 
Africa alone, 1.934 billions globally) and
   - in rural areas (which in Sub-Saharan Africa make 77% of those below the 
$2.15 poverty line).
 Figures are from UN-Habitat2003. Obviously they have increased since then. 
When I am talking of $2.15, this is obviously not pocket money. It's generally 
speaking the economic equivalent of the food they produce and eat, etc.
 
 77% (this figure is higher than elsewhere in the world, where the majority of 
poverty has moved to urban slums) makes about 397millions of "rural poors" in 
this part of the world alone.
 
 Now, very rough rule-of-thumb: 6 per house (families aren't that big: infant 
mortality rate alone in Guinea narrows 10% without ebola) + 1 granary for 3 
houses (things can be very different from place to place) :. 100 million 
houses. Amongst them, expect a fair amount of huts. 
 
 So as Pierre advises for all these: 
 building=yes and shift+O to draw circles. And happy shift-O-ing! But before, 
we need highways=tracks (and other roads), and landuse=residential.
 
 More generally, we have already debated the issue of remote mapping, and 
difficulty, sometimes, of getting the proper local context. 
 
 Our community is growing and most certainly including people in these areas 
who have more accurate knowledge of terrain, who know life "as it is" there. 
 We should rely more on them, and I welcome them to take some time explaining 
things that seem obvious to them, but are not to many westerners who take for 
granted all the wealth, goods, infrastructures... they benefit from.
 
 Sometimes however, language is an issue and it would be nice to see 
native/fluent english speakers make the others more self-confident, or risk 
themselves into other languages.
 
 It's a good thing we can share all this in this list. It is not a matter of 
"knowing" or "not knowing", nor is it of "just mapping", rather an opportunity 
to better know each other's cultures and realities. So I welcome more of these 
exchanges as they can serve improved mutual understanding. In-so-doing HOT and 
OSM can offer  us all far more than just maps (or data) : a better 
understanding of the world and people living on this planet, for a start...
 
 Best,
 
 Rod
 
 
 
 On 17/02/15 03:35, john whelan wrote:
  
  I strongly suspect they are huts that people live in.
 
  Cheerio John
   
 
 
  Hi Daniel,
 
 depends on what kind of "hut" you're talking about. Most of these are 
permanent housing. Some (they tend to be smaller) are granaries.
 Try googling images with "west african hut" and "millet granary" to make 
yourself an idea. 
 
 Rod
 
 
 
 On 16/02/15 20:09, Daniel Specht wrote:
  
 Oops -- didn't mean to send that last one.  Question about huts -- in West 
Africa there are a lot of huts, sometimes just out in the forest with no 
rectangular buildings or clearings nearby.  Are these for storage?  Temporary 
housing? 
  Dan
  
  
  
  Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 18:55:45 -0500
 From: john whelan 
 To: "hot@openstreetmap.org" 
 Subject: [HOT] Validation
 Message-ID:
         
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
 
 Mapping in Africa from satellite images I find I'm adding perhaps half a
 dozen settlements when I validate, they're quite quick an

Re: [HOT] Fwd: huts.

[Severin Menard]

Hi,

To get an idea of what look like the huts you may find hard to identify on
the imagery,
you can have a look on this video
 of a small plane landing on
Zemio airstrip in Central African Republic, especially just before the
plane lands. It shows well what you can see here
. And you
figure out that the round brown shapes are obvious nice huts. I put that on
Zemio TM job to help the contributors: usually when creating a job I check
if there is no video showing the situation from the ground. In South Sudan
it made me figure out what I thought were walls are actually wooden fences.

Sincerely,

Severin

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 11:16 AM, Rod Bera  wrote:

>  Hi John and everyone,
>
> These huts definitely are for living.
>
> Again (see my e-email below), the bigger ones are permanent shelters i.e.
> homes.
> The smaller ones are strorage (granaries), containing food for a whole
> family (or more) for a whole year (in the best of cases, just after
> harvesting) or less (depending on time in year and amounts of previous
> harvest. One or two successive bad harvests most likely means famine).
>
> These huts (or squared equivalents) are the only possible housing when
> people live
>
>- with less than $2.15 a day (as is the case for 516 millions in
>Sub-Saharan Africa alone, 1.934 billions globally) and
>- in rural areas (which in Sub-Saharan Africa make 77% of those below
>the $2.15 poverty line).
>
> Figures are from UN-Habitat2003. Obviously they have increased since then.
> When I am talking of $2.15, this is obviously not pocket money. It's
> generally speaking the economic equivalent of the food they produce and
> eat, etc.
>
> 77% (this figure is higher than elsewhere in the world, where the majority
> of poverty has moved to urban slums) makes about 397millions of "rural
> poors" in this part of the world alone.
>
> Now, very rough rule-of-thumb: 6 per house (families aren't that big:
> infant mortality rate alone in Guinea narrows 10% without ebola) + 1
> granary for 3 houses (things can be very different from place to place) :.
> 100 million houses. Amongst them, expect a fair amount of huts.
>
> So as Pierre advises for all these:
> building=yes and shift+O to draw circles. And happy shift-O-ing! But
> before, we need highways=tracks (and other roads), and landuse=residential.
>
> More generally, we have already debated the issue of remote mapping, and
> difficulty, sometimes, of getting the proper local context.
>
> Our community is growing and most certainly including people in these
> areas who have more accurate knowledge of terrain, who know life "as it is"
> there.
> We should rely more on them, and I welcome them to take some time
> explaining things that seem obvious to them, but are not to many westerners
> who take for granted all the wealth, goods, infrastructures... they benefit
> from.
>
> Sometimes however, language is an issue and it would be nice to see
> native/fluent english speakers make the others more self-confident, or risk
> themselves into other languages.
>
> It's a good thing we can share all this in this list. It is not a matter
> of "knowing" or "not knowing", nor is it of "just mapping", rather an
> opportunity to better know each other's cultures and realities. So I
> welcome more of these exchanges as they can serve improved mutual
> understanding. In-so-doing HOT and OSM can offer us all far more than just
> maps (or data) : a better understanding of the world and people living on
> this planet, for a start...
>
> Best,
>
> Rod
>
>
>
> On 17/02/15 03:35, john whelan wrote:
>
>  I strongly suspect they are huts that people live in.
>
>  Cheerio John
>
>
>
>  Hi Daniel,
>
> depends on what kind of "hut" you're talking about. Most of these are
> permanent housing. Some (they tend to be smaller) are granaries.
> Try googling images with "west african hut" and "millet granary" to make
> yourself an idea.
>
> Rod
>
>
>
> On 16/02/15 20:09, Daniel Specht wrote:
>
> Oops -- didn't mean to send that last one.  Question about huts -- in West
> Africa there are a lot of huts, sometimes just out in the forest with no
> rectangular buildings or clearings nearby.  Are these for storage?
> Temporary housing?
>
>  Dan
>
>
>
>  Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 18:55:45 -0500
> From: john whelan 
> To: "hot@openstreetmap.org" 
> Subject: [HOT] Validation
> Message-ID:
> <
> caj-ex1f3+n6dhh62xnjnazs-p-q8hlmlx77bvd_+zu78sr5...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Mapping in Africa from satellite images I find I'm adding perhaps half a
> dozen settlements when I validate, they're quite quick and easy to do.
> Some are huts and are not quite so easy to spot.
>
> Question at what point should I invalidate?  The question arises when
> perhaps I've added a dozen settlements and half a dozen highways, I'm
> fairly experienced so fairly comfortable t

Re: [HOT] Fwd: huts.

[Pierre Béland]

+1 Pierre 

  De : Rod Bera 
 À : hot@openstreetmap.org 
 Envoyé le : Mardi 17 février 2015 5h16
 Objet : Re: [HOT] Fwd: huts.
   
 Hi John and everyone,
 
 These huts definitely are for living. 
 
 Again (see my e-email below), the bigger ones are permanent shelters i.e. 
homes. 
 The smaller ones are strorage (granaries), containing food for a whole family 
(or more) for a whole year (in the best of cases, just after harvesting) or 
less (depending on time in year and amounts of previous harvest. One or two 
successive bad harvests most likely means famine).
 
 These huts (or squared equivalents) are the only possible housing when people 
live 

   - with less than $2.15 a day (as is the case for 516 millions in Sub-Saharan 
Africa alone, 1.934 billions globally) and
   - in rural areas (which in Sub-Saharan Africa make 77% of those below the 
$2.15 poverty line).
 Figures are from UN-Habitat2003. Obviously they have increased since then. 
When I am talking of $2.15, this is obviously not pocket money. It's generally 
speaking the economic equivalent of the food they produce and eat, etc.
 
 77% (this figure is higher than elsewhere in the world, where the majority of 
poverty has moved to urban slums) makes about 397millions of "rural poors" in 
this part of the world alone.
 
 Now, very rough rule-of-thumb: 6 per house (families aren't that big: infant 
mortality rate alone in Guinea narrows 10% without ebola) + 1 granary for 3 
houses (things can be very different from place to place) :. 100 million 
houses. Amongst them, expect a fair amount of huts. 
 
 So as Pierre advises for all these: 
 building=yes and shift+O to draw circles. And happy shift-O-ing! But before, 
we need highways=tracks (and other roads), and landuse=residential.
 
 More generally, we have already debated the issue of remote mapping, and 
difficulty, sometimes, of getting the proper local context. 
 
 Our community is growing and most certainly including people in these areas 
who have more accurate knowledge of terrain, who know life "as it is" there. 
 We should rely more on them, and I welcome them to take some time explaining 
things that seem obvious to them, but are not to many westerners who take for 
granted all the wealth, goods, infrastructures... they benefit from.
 
 Sometimes however, language is an issue and it would be nice to see 
native/fluent english speakers make the others more self-confident, or risk 
themselves into other languages.
 
 It's a good thing we can share all this in this list. It is not a matter of 
"knowing" or "not knowing", nor is it of "just mapping", rather an opportunity 
to better know each other's cultures and realities. So I welcome more of these 
exchanges as they can serve improved mutual understanding. In-so-doing HOT and 
OSM can offer  us all far more than just maps (or data) : a better 
understanding of the world and people living on this planet, for a start...
 
 Best,
 
 Rod
 
 
 
 On 17/02/15 03:35, john whelan wrote:
  
  I strongly suspect they are huts that people live in.
 
  Cheerio John
   
 
 
  Hi Daniel,
 
 depends on what kind of "hut" you're talking about. Most of these are 
permanent housing. Some (they tend to be smaller) are granaries.
 Try googling images with "west african hut" and "millet granary" to make 
yourself an idea. 
 
 Rod
 
 
 
 On 16/02/15 20:09, Daniel Specht wrote:
  
 Oops -- didn't mean to send that last one.  Question about huts -- in West 
Africa there are a lot of huts, sometimes just out in the forest with no 
rectangular buildings or clearings nearby.  Are these for storage?  Temporary 
housing? 
  Dan
  
  
  
  Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 18:55:45 -0500
 From: john whelan 
 To: "hot@openstreetmap.org" 
 Subject: [HOT] Validation
 Message-ID:
         
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
 
 Mapping in Africa from satellite images I find I'm adding perhaps half a
 dozen settlements when I validate, they're quite quick and easy to do.
 Some are huts and are not quite so easy to spot.
 
 Question at what point should I invalidate?  The question arises when
 perhaps I've added a dozen settlements and half a dozen highways, I'm
 fairly experienced so fairly comfortable the work is OK after I've added in
 the validation but there is the question that I've added a dozen
 settlements and no one else will be validating.
 
 I'm looking more for pragmatic answers more than anything else, there is a
 concern that if I invalidate a tile it may demotivate a mapper and at the
 moment we have a lot of tiles to map.
 
 Thanks
 
 Cheerio John
 
  -- 
 Dan
  
 ___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
 
 
 
 -- 
Rod Béra,  MCF Géomatique/   Lecturer, Geomatics
   et SI

Re: [HOT] Fwd: huts.

[Rod Bera]

Hi John and everyone,

These huts definitely are for living.

Again (see my e-email below), the bigger ones are permanent shelters 
i.e. homes.
The smaller ones are strorage (granaries), containing food for a whole 
family (or more) for a whole year (in the best of cases, just after 
harvesting) or less (depending on time in year and amounts of previous 
harvest. One or two successive bad harvests most likely means famine).


These huts (or squared equivalents) are the only possible housing when 
people live


 * with less than $2.15 a day (as is the case for 516 millions in
   Sub-Saharan Africa alone, 1.934 billions globally) and
 * in rural areas (which in Sub-Saharan Africa make 77% of those below
   the $2.15 poverty line).

Figures are from UN-Habitat2003. Obviously they have increased since 
then. When I am talking of $2.15, this is obviously not pocket money. 
It's generally speaking the economic equivalent of the food they produce 
and eat, etc.


77% (this figure is higher than elsewhere in the world, where the 
majority of poverty has moved to urban slums) makes about 397millions of 
"rural poors" in this part of the world alone.


Now, very rough rule-of-thumb: 6 per house (families aren't that big: 
infant mortality rate alone in Guinea narrows 10% without ebola) + 1 
granary for 3 houses (things can be very different from place to place) 
:. 100 million houses. Amongst them, expect a fair amount of huts.


So as Pierre advises for all these:
building=yes and shift+O to draw circles. And happy shift-O-ing! But 
before, we need highways=tracks (and other roads), and landuse=residential.


More generally, we have already debated the issue of remote mapping, and 
difficulty, sometimes, of getting the proper local context.


Our community is growing and most certainly including people in these 
areas who have more accurate knowledge of terrain, who know life "as it 
is" there.
We should rely more on them, and I welcome them to take some time 
explaining things that seem obvious to them, but are not to many 
westerners who take for granted all the wealth, goods, 
infrastructures... they benefit from.


Sometimes however, language is an issue and it would be nice to see 
native/fluent english speakers make the others more self-confident, or 
risk themselves into other languages.


It's a good thing we can share all this in this list. It is not a matter 
of "knowing" or "not knowing", nor is it of "just mapping", rather an 
opportunity to better know each other's cultures and realities. So I 
welcome more of these exchanges as they can serve improved mutual 
understanding. In-so-doing HOT and OSM can offer us all far more than 
just maps (or data) : a better understanding of the world and people 
living on this planet, for a start...


Best,

Rod



On 17/02/15 03:35, john whelan wrote:

I strongly suspect they are huts that people live in.

Cheerio John



Hi Daniel,

depends on what kind of "hut" you're talking about. Most of these are 
permanent housing. Some (they tend to be smaller) are granaries.
Try googling images with "west african hut" and "millet granary" to make 
yourself an idea.


Rod



On 16/02/15 20:09, Daniel Specht wrote:
Oops -- didn't mean to send that last one.  Question about huts -- in 
West Africa there are a lot of huts, sometimes just out in the forest 
with no rectangular buildings or clearings nearby.  Are these for 
storage?  Temporary housing?


Dan



Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 18:55:45 -0500
From: john whelan mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com>>
To: "hot@openstreetmap.org " 
mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org>>

Subject: [HOT] Validation
Message-ID:

>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Mapping in Africa from satellite images I find I'm adding perhaps half a
dozen settlements when I validate, they're quite quick and easy to do.
Some are huts and are not quite so easy to spot.

Question at what point should I invalidate?  The question arises when
perhaps I've added a dozen settlements and half a dozen highways, I'm
fairly experienced so fairly comfortable the work is OK after I've 
added in

the validation but there is the question that I've added a dozen
settlements and no one else will be validating.

I'm looking more for pragmatic answers more than anything else, there is a
concern that if I invalidate a tile it may demotivate a mapper and at the
moment we have a lot of tiles to map.

Thanks

Cheerio John

--
Dan


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--
Rod Béra,  MCF Géomatique/   Lecturer, Geomatics
   et SIG pour l'Environnement  /and Environmental GIS
Agrocampus-Ouest|65 r.Saint-Brieuc|CS84215|35042 Rennes cedex|France
+33 (0) 223 48 5553 -roderic.b...@agrocampus-ouest.fr



___
HOT ma

Re: [HOT] Fwd: huts.

[Dmitry Kiselev]

 Hi all.

Is there any photos from the ground?

Using only the satellite images it's rather hard to say is it huts with people 
living in 
or some kind of temporal agricultural construction (like haystack with roof)


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Re: [HOT] Fwd: huts.

[john whelan]

I strongly suspect they are huts that people live in.

Cheerio John

On 16 February 2015 at 21:09, Daniel Specht  wrote:

> An example of this is #892 - Ebola Outbreak, Guinea, Kindia Prefecture,
> Road network and settlements, task 77.  Lots of the residential areas have
> only these barely visible round things.
>
>
> Dan
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Daniel Specht 
> Date: Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 11:09 AM
> Subject: huts.
> To: HOT@openstreetmap.org
>
>
> Oops -- didn't mean to send that last one.  Question about huts -- in West
> Africa there are a lot of huts, sometimes just out in the forest with no
> rectangular buildings or clearings nearby.  Are these for storage?
> Temporary housing?
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 18:55:45 -0500
> From: john whelan 
> To: "hot@openstreetmap.org" 
> Subject: [HOT] Validation
> Message-ID:
> <
> caj-ex1f3+n6dhh62xnjnazs-p-q8hlmlx77bvd_+zu78sr5...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Mapping in Africa from satellite images I find I'm adding perhaps half a
> dozen settlements when I validate, they're quite quick and easy to do.
> Some are huts and are not quite so easy to spot.
>
> Question at what point should I invalidate?  The question arises when
> perhaps I've added a dozen settlements and half a dozen highways, I'm
> fairly experienced so fairly comfortable the work is OK after I've added in
> the validation but there is the question that I've added a dozen
> settlements and no one else will be validating.
>
> I'm looking more for pragmatic answers more than anything else, there is a
> concern that if I invalidate a tile it may demotivate a mapper and at the
> moment we have a lot of tiles to map.
>
> Thanks
>
> Cheerio John
>
> --
> Dan
>
>
>
> --
> Dan
>
> ___
> HOT mailing list
> HOT@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
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