Re: [Hpr] Amateur radio round table?

[Russ Woodman]

Hi, 

I'd certainly like to be a part of this as well, assuming the scheduled time of 
the recording works out for me. Let me know what's decided or publish it to the 
reflector. Looking forward to it. 

73, de Russ, K5TUX 
Linux in the Ham Shack 
http://lhspodcast.info 

- Original Message -

From: "Jon KT4KB"  
To: hpr@hackerpublicradio.org 
Sent: Friday, January 6, 2017 5:42:16 PM 
Subject: Re: [Hpr] Amateur radio round table? 

Hello, 

If there is an interest I'd love to be a part of a roundtable. I have 
been an amatuer radio operator over 25 years, and a shortwave & scanner 
listener close to 50 years. And I contend "Hams" are one of the earliest 
type of electrical/electronic hackers. And although many people will 
make fun of the hobby, I am proud to call myself a ham. 

Thanks and 73, Jon-KT4KB 


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Re: [Hpr] Amateur radio round table?

[Christopher M. Hobbs]

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On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 23:56:56 +0100
Michael  wrote:
 
> I haven't done that before, so can anyone with more experience please 
> suggest times that would work best for participants from Europe and
> from the US (assuming people would be mostly located there)?

I live in the US.  I should be available most weekday evenings after
2100 CST (UTC-6) or on weekends at most any time.

cmh

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Re: [Hpr] Amateur radio round table?

[Christopher M. Hobbs]

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On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 16:55:26 -0600
Steve Saner  wrote:

> So, I do think klaatu makes a good point and I think, as a ham
> community we should maybe try to share how one goes about getting a
> license, which, specifics aside, probably is fairly much the same in
> most countries (but I don't really know). 

In that situation, in the US it would be:

0.  Decide on what license class you'd like to test for:  Technician
(VHF/UHF and some limited HF CW), General (Seems to be most HF users),
or Extra (shoot for the moon).

1.  Acquire the appropriate study material and study it/memorize the
answers.

2.  Find a VEC, schedule and take your test.

3.  Buy (a) radio(s) appropriate for the mode(s) you want to operate.

4.  Try not to cause QRM!  :D

I think most folks enter through the Tech class license.  I also agree
that memorizing the answers isn't the way to go but when given the
structure of testing it's almost unavoidable.  That's a philosophical
discussion/holy war that has decimated many a conversation.

Thanks for the kind words and the constructive input.  I think more
amateur radio shows on HPR is a great idea as it fits the theme quite
well.

cmh



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Re: [Hpr] Amateur radio round table?

[Michael]

Hi everyone,

thanks for the positive responses.
It already became obvious why it is so important to have a whole group 
of HAMs to contribute their knowledge. While I might be able to throw in 
some bits, I'm almost blanking out when it gets to the current 
regulations for beginners licenses and stuff. I'm also embarrassingly 
inactive on the air and have lost track of certain developments. In 
order to not look completely foolish, I need back up :-)

That said, all of us together will sure make it work.

Now to the technicalities.
I think we can use the mumble server referenced here: 
http://hackerpublicradio.org/recording.php#round_table .
The mumble client should be part of most linux distros standard 
repositories and after a first glance I think the license is free 
software compatible (please don't quote me on that).


I haven't done that before, so can anyone with more experience please 
suggest times that would work best for participants from Europe and from 
the US (assuming people would be mostly located there)?


Now I'm really curious, how this will all work out...

Regards,
Michael, DL4MGM


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Re: [Hpr] Amateur radio round table?

[Steve Saner]

On 01/06/2017 04:30 PM, Christopher M. Hobbs wrote:

All of that to say you should probably know what you're interested in
with the hobby before figuring out how to get into the hobby.  You'll
be disappointed if you want to talk on SSB hundreds of miles away if
you just get the Technician class license and a Chinese HT.


This is the part I'm not sure of. How much do you get bogged down in 
figuring out what things you might want to do, before you just say, 
okay, how do I get a license and I'll figure out what I want to do with 
it after.


I guess I think there is a balance to be struck. On the one hand, it 
kind of annoys me when I see people just memorizing the answers to the 
test questions so they can pass the test with no understanding of what 
the question is asking or what the answer means. But on the other hand, 
if you insist on figuring it all out before you jump in, you will never 
get to it.


So, I do think klaatu makes a good point and I think, as a ham community 
we should maybe try to share how one goes about getting a license, 
which, specifics aside, probably is fairly much the same in most 
countries (but I don't really know). And whether we do this as a 
round-table type of show, or someone does an individual show, I'm open 
to either. And then we can get in to some of the specific things you can 
do with it, probably mostly as individual shows, such as what you did 
with the satellite communication, which was a very good show, btw.


Steve

--
--
Steven Saner  KD0IJP
Andover, Kansas USA

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Re: [Hpr] Amateur radio round table?

[Christopher M. Hobbs]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 10:40:13 +1300
Klaatu  wrote:


> I'd be elated if someone could at least provide a general overview.
> Abstract it as needed, to allow for localized exceptions, but the
> process, surely, must still be the same?

Not entirely because different countries specify different modes, power
levels, and bands to different classes of licenses.  Again, it all
depends on what you want to do with the hobby.

In the US, most people's entry to the process looks something like this:

0.  Acquire study materials for a Technician class license from the
ARRL, Gordon West, the Internet, or whereever.
1.  Find a local Volunteer Examiner Coordinator and get scheduled for a
test.
2.  Memorize a question pool from the study materials.
3.  Cough up $15 to the VEC and take the test.
4.  Wait a few days for your ticket.
5.  Buy a cheap handheld radio (probably one of the Chinese units).
6.  Lament about the fact that you can only operate on VHF/UHF or use
CW on some slim parts of bands and the repeaters are dead and there's
no activity and...
7.  Leave the hobby or upgrade to General class, sink your life savings
in to high end radio gear and complain that there's nobody to talk to
because the solar cycle is low and you have gout or something.

Joking aside, usually hams in the US get their Technician class license
first and get bored with VHF/UHF (usually short range) operation and
want to work on HF so they move up to General class eventually.  A few
test for the Extra class license at some point.  Many just stop at Tech
and either get bored or get involved in public service. 

There are further complications with explaining things beyond
differences by country.  The number of modes of operation and facets of
the hobby are head spinning.  Here is just a sample of some things you
can do:

- - Emergency and public communications coordination
- - Talk on local repeaters
- - Talk on satellites
- - Bounce a signal off the moon
- - Use Morse Code
- - Send digital signals over a variety of protocols... dozens of them!
- - Talk to repeaters through the Internet
- - Play with low power (QRP) transmissions
- - DXing and contesting
- - Experiment with Extremely Low Frequency
- - Foxhunting
- - Geolocation fun with things like APRS
- - Slow scan television
- - Talk on HF nets across the country through SSB if the solar cycles
  permit

There are many other things you can do within the hobby and even just a
single slice of it can fill up all your time.  I'm just a technician
class operator and I only work satellites and QRP CW (low power morse
code) these days.  I currently have no desire to upgrade.  In the past,
I used to spend my time on terrestrial repeaters and help with storm
chasing or public events.

All of that to say you should probably know what you're interested in
with the hobby before figuring out how to get into the hobby.  You'll
be disappointed if you want to talk on SSB hundreds of miles away if
you just get the Technician class license and a Chinese HT.

Maybe it would be good to approach the round table or an intro series
to the hobby with a few basic scenarios like what each license class is
capable of working?  It could get complex quickly but, if carefully laid
out, could be informative.

cmh

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Re: [Hpr] Amateur radio round table?

[Christopher M. Hobbs]

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On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 22:02:07 +
TechLibre  wrote:

> What if I 'skip' the licence step? Why do I need a license? Is the
> 'licence' libre/gratis? Can you share a copy of your license with me? 
> 

The FCC hits you with a big fine if they find you (in the US, anyway).
You need a license to operate specific modes and power levels on certain
bands.  The testing fee for the Technician class license in the US is
usually $15.  You can operate on my radio under my call sign if you are
with me even if you are not licensed.

cmh

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Re: [Hpr] Amateur radio round table?

[TechLibre]

What if I 'skip' the licence step? Why do I need a license? Is the 'licence' 
libre/gratis? Can you share a copy of your license with me? 

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Re: [Hpr] Amateur radio round table?

[Klaatu]

On 07/01/17 09:24, h...@saner.net wrote:
> On 01/06/2017 12:14 PM, Klaatu wrote:
>> Translate that to HAM (I'm making this up because I don't know):
>> 0. Contact your local HAM licensing person, get trained.
>> 1. Get a Foobar 6000SUX radio from www.ham.com
>> 2. Tune in to frequency to 1337 hz
>> 3. Announce your call sign
>> 4. Profit!
>>
>> I believe if an HPR episode started with THAT, it would be invaluable to
>> not just current HPR listeners, but HPR listeners for years to come.
>>
>> Just an idea!
>>
>> -klaatu
> 
> 
> That isn't a bad idea, but there are some difficulties. In particular,
> the process of becoming a HAM is not exactly the same in all countries
> (at least I don't think it is). I could do the show you recommend and it
> would be pretty accurate for someone in the US wanting to become a HAM.
> I don't know how useful it would be for someone in another country. And,
> truthfully, I don't know if the differences would be significant enough
> to matter. I'd need to do some research to find out.
> 
> So. I am willing to make such a show and will start working on it, with
> the understanding that what I say might be somewhat US centric. If then
> others could do the same show focused on another country or region, over
> time we might get the topic covered well, and we would fulfill Ken's
> primary theme of... more shows please ;-)
> 
> Regarding the idea of a round table type of discussion. I'd be willing
> to participate in such a thing.
> 
> Steve
> 

I'd be elated if someone could at least provide a general overview.
Abstract it as needed, to allow for localized exceptions, but the
process, surely, must still be the same?

0. Investigate your local laws for amateur radio by contacting your
local amateur radio group.
1. Learn about power regulation in your local area so that you do not
accidentally purchase gear that is illegal in your region.
2. Obtain your license by contacting your local FCC equivalent. We're
not sure what that would be outside of the US and Canada, but do some
research online to find your country's broadcasting regulation office.
3. Once licensed, buy your gear. We recommend the Foobar 6000SUX because
it's affordable and low-powered. If you can't find that in your country,
look at the specs of the Foobar 6000SUX here: http://hams'r'us.com and
see if you can find something similar.  But from this point forward,
we'll assume you have the Foobar 6000SUX.
4. Once your Foobar arrives, plug it in. You'll want a bigger, better
antenna, but for now we'll just use the inbuilt antenna on the Foobar
itself. Tune to 99.1 FM or some local radio station, just to make sure
your unit is working. Now tune to 1337 hz on the 8080 magic spectrum and
see if you can contact Cthulu.
5. Have fun!


Something like that. Of course,  I clearly have no idea what I'm talking
about here, so maybe I just don't understand the true complexity. But
then again, I do understand stuff like servers and GlusterFS, and I've
written articles on setting up those. A myriad options exist, but in my
experience, there's always a way to limit scope, and provide, if nothing
else, an example of how to get started.


Again, just an idea that I'm pitching out of purely selfish "I keep
saying I want to learn but so far can't be bothered to actually teach
myself" lazy motives.

Either way, the roundtable sounds great and I look forward to listening in!

-klaatu

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Re: [Hpr] Amateur radio round table?

[dosman]

Don’t forget to invite some folks to discuss their health problems in detail on 
the show to make it complete.

But in all seriousness, this sounds like a fun episode. There are an endless 
number of digital modes to explore these days in addition to plain old voice 
communication. And the explosion of cheap Chinese radios has made it affordable 
for anyone to get started on local frequencies. Lastly, don’t forget to mention 
that Hamvention is changing locations this year...
http://www.arrl.org/news/view/dayton-hamvention-moving-to-greene-county-fairgrounds-in-xenia
 


-dosman



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Re: [Hpr] Amateur radio round table?

[Christopher M. Hobbs]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 14:24:35 -0600
h...@saner.net wrote:

> That isn't a bad idea, but there are some difficulties. In
> particular, the process of becoming a HAM is not exactly the same in
> all countries (at least I don't think it is).

I didn't even consider this part.  It's very different in other
countries, even down to things like power limits.

cmh


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Re: [Hpr] Amateur radio round table?

[Christopher M. Hobbs]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 11:41:07 +0100
Michael  wrote:

> Hello everybody,
> 
> with Ken repeatedly asking for certain topics, I wonder if it would
> make sense to do a kind of round table session on mumble. Where we
> can just meet and talk about, including but not limited to, amateur
> radio. If we have a whole group of people, they can augment their
> answers or correct things right in place. Anyone interested could
> join in with their questions or be it just Ken sitting there and
> hitting a big buzzer each time we come across a term in the
> conversation that he thinks needs explanation for the rest of the
> audience.
> 
> hw?
> 
> Regards,
> Michael (Mirwi)
> 
> 
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It also looks like my last message didn't make it into the list
(probably because I CC'ed the list rather than using the To field).
Sorry for the duplicate message, Michael.

Here's the original:

I'd be happy to contribute to a round table assuming timezones permit.
I'd have to figure out how to get a mumble client running as well.  Are
there Free Software mumble clients?

Christopher M. Hobbs, KD5RYO

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Re: [Hpr] Amateur radio round table?

[hpr]

On 01/06/2017 12:14 PM, Klaatu wrote:

Translate that to HAM (I'm making this up because I don't know):
0. Contact your local HAM licensing person, get trained.
1. Get a Foobar 6000SUX radio from www.ham.com
2. Tune in to frequency to 1337 hz
3. Announce your call sign
4. Profit!

I believe if an HPR episode started with THAT, it would be invaluable to
not just current HPR listeners, but HPR listeners for years to come.

Just an idea!

-klaatu



That isn't a bad idea, but there are some difficulties. In particular, 
the process of becoming a HAM is not exactly the same in all countries 
(at least I don't think it is). I could do the show you recommend and it 
would be pretty accurate for someone in the US wanting to become a HAM. 
I don't know how useful it would be for someone in another country. And, 
truthfully, I don't know if the differences would be significant enough 
to matter. I'd need to do some research to find out.


So. I am willing to make such a show and will start working on it, with 
the understanding that what I say might be somewhat US centric. If then 
others could do the same show focused on another country or region, over 
time we might get the topic covered well, and we would fulfill Ken's 
primary theme of... more shows please ;-)


Regarding the idea of a round table type of discussion. I'd be willing 
to participate in such a thing.


Steve

--
--
Steven Saner  KD0IJP
Andover, Kansas USA

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Re: [Hpr] Amateur radio round table?

[Christopher M. Hobbs]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 07:14:38 +1300
Klaatu  wrote:

> Translate that to HAM (I'm making this up because I don't know):
> 0. Contact your local HAM licensing person, get trained.
> 1. Get a Foobar 6000SUX radio from www.ham.com
> 2. Tune in to frequency to 1337 hz
> 3. Announce your call sign
> 4. Profit!
> 

Part of the issue with this is that there is such a wide array of
things to do in Amateur Radio that there are many different ways to
start.  I suppose I could work up something on some basics or we could
cover it in the roundtable.

cmh


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GPG:  1200 0808 F968 47AB F489  91A3 FE26 6FFB 1A77 0868

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Re: [Hpr] Amateur radio round table?

[Klaatu]

On 05/01/17 23:41, Michael wrote:
> Hello everybody,
> 
> with Ken repeatedly asking for certain topics, I wonder if it would make
> sense to do a kind of round table session on mumble. Where we can just
> meet and talk about, including but not limited to, amateur radio. If we
> have a whole group of people, they can augment their answers or correct
> things right in place. Anyone interested could join in with their
> questions or be it just Ken sitting there and hitting a big buzzer each
> time we come across a term in the conversation that he thinks needs
> explanation for the rest of the audience.
> 
> hw?
> 
> Regards,
> Michael (Mirwi)
> 
> 
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> 

I'm not a HAM so I wouldn't be of much use at a roundtable on the topic,
but since this is a "requested topic", I figure I may as well add to the
resquest with an idea (or rather, an additional request).

One thing that I've found frustrating is that nobody has ever sat down
in front of a microphone or keyboard and told people EXACTLY how to get
started.

For instance, here's how to make a bowl of cereal:

0. Get any bowl.
1. Pour some Lucky Charms into it.
2. Pour milk into it.
3. Eat it with a spoon.

This is not EVERY way to make cereal. It's the Ubuntu way. It tells me
exactly what to do, without even mentioning that you could serve cereal
in a mug, or that there are different brands of cereals, or that you can
invent your own by combining granola (*mueslix) with some dried fruit,
or whatever.


Translate that to HAM (I'm making this up because I don't know):
0. Contact your local HAM licensing person, get trained.
1. Get a Foobar 6000SUX radio from www.ham.com
2. Tune in to frequency to 1337 hz
3. Announce your call sign
4. Profit!

I believe if an HPR episode started with THAT, it would be invaluable to
not just current HPR listeners, but HPR listeners for years to come.

Just an idea!

-klaatu


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[Hpr] Amateur radio round table?

[Michael]

Hello everybody,

with Ken repeatedly asking for certain topics, I wonder if it would make 
sense to do a kind of round table session on mumble. Where we can just 
meet and talk about, including but not limited to, amateur radio. If we 
have a whole group of people, they can augment their answers or correct 
things right in place. Anyone interested could join in with their 
questions or be it just Ken sitting there and hitting a big buzzer each 
time we come across a term in the conversation that he thinks needs 
explanation for the rest of the audience.


hw?

Regards,
Michael (Mirwi)


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