Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic mode and Lens calibration in 2013.0beta1

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2013/5/26 T. Modes 

> Hi,
>
> On 26 Mai, 11:12, Frederic Da Vitoria  wrote:
> > it took me some time to discover that "b" was barrel
>
> hover over the column header to get a longer description. There is
> also barrel mentioned. In the header itself there is not enough space
> for the longer captions.
>

Yes, that's what I found after searching around :-)



>  >  I still regret something, though: the
> > old interface allowed to check or clear the same parameter (y/p/r/X/Y/Z)
> > for all pictures at the same time. I couldn't find a way to do the same
> > thing in the new UI. Checking / unchecking columns can become cumbersome
> > when a mosaic is made of many pictures. Is there currently a way to do
> this
> > which I wasn't able to find, or could something be added?
>
> The context menu (on the optimizer tab) contains select all/select
> none - as in the old version.
>

OK, I got it. I never knew about this because the buttons were so much more
obvious :-) The names of the options aren't very intuitive, I thought that
"select" meant select the images, but I can't find a better wording. Or
maybe "Enable" and "Disable"?

Anyhow, thanks four showing the solution.

-- 
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » -
http://www.april.org

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic

[Bruno Postle]

On Tue 06-Dec-2011 at 13:43 +0100, Oskar Sander wrote:


Wouldn't some kind of filtering based on geometry be possible in 
the mosaic case although it won't be as unambigous?


Like using the asumption that all images are depicting a planar 
world from different viewpoints.


This ought to work in theory, but I'd rather someone worked on 
making the mosaic mode in the optimiser more stable first.


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic

[Oskar Sander]

Ok, will play with it.

Wouldn't some kind of filtering based on geometry be possible in the mosaic
case although it won't be as unambigous?

Like using the asumption that all images are depicting a planar world from
different viewpoints.

Cheers
/O

2011/12/5 Bruno Postle 

> On 5 Dec 2011 13:29, Oskar Sander wrote:
> >
> > Allright, Is there documentation on how this logics works somwhere to
> read.
> >
> > I'm guessing by the name that it is assuming a single flat plane that
> the images is should be projected on in order for the CP to match. Right?
>
> 'hom' isn't a special mosaic mode, it just turns off all the filtering
> that makes cpfind very reliable for panoramas, this filtering will remove
> all control points in a mosaic project.
>
> So 'hom' will produce lots of 'bad' points. You will need to do manual
> editing, and may be happier creating all your points manually in the first
> place.
>
> --
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic

[Bruno Postle]

On 5 Dec 2011 13:29, Oskar Sander wrote:
>
> Allright, Is there documentation on how this logics works somwhere to
read.
>
> I'm guessing by the name that it is assuming a single flat plane that the
images is should be projected on in order for the CP to match. Right?

'hom' isn't a special mosaic mode, it just turns off all the filtering that
makes cpfind very reliable for panoramas, this filtering will remove all
control points in a mosaic project.

So 'hom' will produce lots of 'bad' points. You will need to do manual
editing, and may be happier creating all your points manually in the first
place.

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic

[Oskar Sander]

Allright, Is there documentation on how this logics works somwhere to read.

I'm guessing by the name that it is assuming a single flat plane that the
images is should be projected on in order for the CP to match. Right?
So if the reality is different, it is better to search for CP in groups of
images where the asumption holds.  Or did I assume to much of the logics
now?

Cheers
/O

2011/12/2 Bruno Postle 

> On Fri 02-Dec-2011 at 13:25 -0800, kfj wrote:
>
>> On 2 Dez., 21:40, Bruno Postle  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> cpfind does filtering of control points by default, but the filter it
>>> uses assumes you are building a 'normal' panorama.  If you have a
>>> mosaic this filter will delete all your control points - So you need
>>> to use the "Hugin's CPFind for mosaics" preset instead of the
>>> default.
>>>
>>
>> what preset do you mean? Something in hugin? Is this something new?
>>
>
> It was new I think, but it seems to have gone in the current 2011.5.0
> snapshots.  Basically you need to add '--ransacmode hom' to the default
> cpfind parameters to get it to match a mosaic.
>
> --
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic

[Bruno Postle]

On Fri 02-Dec-2011 at 13:25 -0800, kfj wrote:

On 2 Dez., 21:40, Bruno Postle  wrote:


cpfind does filtering of control points by default, but the filter it
uses assumes you are building a 'normal' panorama.  If you have a
mosaic this filter will delete all your control points - So you need
to use the "Hugin's CPFind for mosaics" preset instead of the
default.


what preset do you mean? Something in hugin? Is this something new?


It was new I think, but it seems to have gone in the current 
2011.5.0 snapshots.  Basically you need to add '--ransacmode hom' to 
the default cpfind parameters to get it to match a mosaic.


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic

[Bruno Postle]

On Fri 02-Dec-2011 at 17:23 +0100, Oskar Sander wrote:


Is is rightly understood that you  optimize all ZYX at once together (for
all viewpoints) then ypr for all together?   Is that always stable?


This might work, but really you have to optimise rpy and XYZ 
together - Ideally you already know your lens parameters and have 
them fixed.


The mosaic optimisation isn't as robust as with a 'normal' panorama, 
so I would start with the middle photo, fix XYZ and roll, then add 
one photo at a time and optimise rpyXYZ for each.



I've missed the fact you should give different parameters for mosaic CP
find, what does that do?


cpfind does filtering of control points by default, but the filter it 
uses assumes you are building a 'normal' panorama.  If you have a 
mosaic this filter will delete all your control points - So you need 
to use the "Hugin's CPFind for mosaics" preset instead of the 
default.


--
Bruno


2011/11/16 Bruno Postle 


On Tue 15-Nov-2011 at 21:25 -0800, Syv Ritch wrote:


I want one long photo that is like standing in front of each house,
perpendicular, for the whole street.



I thought of doing many small panos of 2 images and each one covering
3 to 4 houses. I was going to do the panos to simplify, there are 37
houses on that street.


This is the way to go if the building facades don't follow the street edge
closely or there is lots of complex roof detail.  I put my notes for
stitching linear mosaics here:






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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic

[Oskar Sander]

Thats really nice Bruno!

Is is rightly understood that you  optimize all ZYX at once together (for
all viewpoints) then ypr for all together?   Is that always stable?

I've missed the fact you should give different parameters for mosaic CP
find, what does that do?

Cheers
/O



2011/11/16 Bruno Postle 

> On Tue 15-Nov-2011 at 21:25 -0800, Syv Ritch wrote:
>
>>
>> I want one long photo that is like standing in front of each house,
>> perpendicular, for the whole street.
>>
>
>  I thought of doing many small panos of 2 images and each one covering
>> 3 to 4 houses. I was going to do the panos to simplify, there are 37
>> houses on that street.
>>
>
> This is the way to go if the building facades don't follow the street edge
> closely or there is lots of complex roof detail.  I put my notes for
> stitching linear mosaics here:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/**36383814@N00/5830006193/
>
> --
> Bruno
>
>
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic

[Ian Tindale]

These days I usually set that camera to pan in the direction of right to
left, with the camera held portrait.

On 21 November 2011 21:16, JohnPW  wrote:

> That's interesting. It looks like it uses the camera's orientations
> sensor to select the angle of the strip of image it captures. As you
> turn the camera the strips stay vertical to the finished panorama. Did
> you sweep from right to left?
> It would be interesting to hack the software (but don't expect me
> to! :-)
>
> On Nov 21, 1:48 am, Ian Tindale  wrote:
> > Try this one, and its neighbouring pictures, where I intentionally
> twisted
> > the camera around the roll axis as I swept it across an arc:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/iantindale/6066091512/in/photostream/
> >
> > On 21 November 2011 07:28, JohnPW  wrote:
>
> > > That's pretty fun.
> > > Notice how it tried to resolve the parallax problems. It locked onto
> > > the front surface of the the building pretty well, but had a hard time
> > > with distant objects "enclosed" by the building. The objects seen
> > > through the open door and objects reflected in the window glass appear
> > > partial and repeated rather than being sewn together.
> > > You can also see the width of the images it collects to make the
> > > panorama. They're pretty narrow.
> >
> > > On Nov 18, 1:21 am, Ian Tindale  wrote:
> > > > As an experiment, I shot this by abusing the Sony Sweep Panorama
> feature:
> > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/iantindale/6241529419/—I held the camera
> > > > level and simply walked along in a straight line, pointing the camera
> > > > sideways, starting at one end of that room and ending at the other
> end.
> > > > Obviously I must’ve veered slightly towards it by the time I got to
> the
> > > > end, but it was only a quickie test to see if the technique could be
> > > > applied to shooting panomurals (as I’ve termed them).
> >
> > > > On 18 November 2011 06:34, kfj <_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > On 18 Nov., 00:13, JohnPW  wrote:
> > > > > > On Nov 17, 4:13 pm, kfj <_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > This is why we now try and coerce 2D hardware to do a 1D job.
> >
> > > > > > I actually think using a 2D camera might be superior in many
> ways.
> > > > > > Besides ready availability of interchangeable equipment,  it
> would
> > > > > > also be more forgiving of camera movement while also allowing
> you to
> > > > > > readily remove moving object artifacts.
> >
> > > > > That's a point (or two, rather ;-)
> >
> > > > > And maybe trying to do stay 1D and even 2D is too limiting anyway -
> > > > > eventually, we'll embrace 3D scene reconstruction, and for that
> > > > > purpose parallax becomes an asset.
> >
> > > > > Kay
> >
> > > > > --
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > Groups
> > > > > "Hugin and other free panoramic software" group.
> > > > > A list of frequently asked questions is available at:
> > > > >http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ
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> >
> > > > --
> > > > *Ian Tindale*
> >
> > > --
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> > --
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>
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic

[Ian Tindale]

Try this one, and its neighbouring pictures, where I intentionally twisted
the camera around the roll axis as I swept it across an arc:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/iantindale/6066091512/in/photostream/



On 21 November 2011 07:28, JohnPW  wrote:

> That's pretty fun.
> Notice how it tried to resolve the parallax problems. It locked onto
> the front surface of the the building pretty well, but had a hard time
> with distant objects "enclosed" by the building. The objects seen
> through the open door and objects reflected in the window glass appear
> partial and repeated rather than being sewn together.
> You can also see the width of the images it collects to make the
> panorama. They're pretty narrow.
>
> On Nov 18, 1:21 am, Ian Tindale  wrote:
> > As an experiment, I shot this by abusing the Sony Sweep Panorama feature:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/iantindale/6241529419/— I held the camera
> > level and simply walked along in a straight line, pointing the camera
> > sideways, starting at one end of that room and ending at the other end.
> > Obviously I must’ve veered slightly towards it by the time I got to the
> > end, but it was only a quickie test to see if the technique could be
> > applied to shooting panomurals (as I’ve termed them).
> >
> > On 18 November 2011 06:34, kfj <_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 18 Nov., 00:13, JohnPW  wrote:
> > > > On Nov 17, 4:13 pm, kfj <_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > This is why we now try and coerce 2D hardware to do a 1D job.
> >
> > > > I actually think using a 2D camera might be superior in many ways.
> > > > Besides ready availability of interchangeable equipment,  it would
> > > > also be more forgiving of camera movement while also allowing you to
> > > > readily remove moving object artifacts.
> >
> > > That's a point (or two, rather ;-)
> >
> > > And maybe trying to do stay 1D and even 2D is too limiting anyway -
> > > eventually, we'll embrace 3D scene reconstruction, and for that
> > > purpose parallax becomes an asset.
> >
> > > Kay
> >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
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> >
> > --
> > *Ian Tindale*
>
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic

[Ian Tindale]

As an experiment, I shot this by abusing the Sony Sweep Panorama feature:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/iantindale/6241529419/ — I held the camera
level and simply walked along in a straight line, pointing the camera
sideways, starting at one end of that room and ending at the other end.
Obviously I must’ve veered slightly towards it by the time I got to the
end, but it was only a quickie test to see if the technique could be
applied to shooting panomurals (as I’ve termed them).

On 18 November 2011 06:34, kfj <_...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 18 Nov., 00:13, JohnPW  wrote:
> > On Nov 17, 4:13 pm, kfj <_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > This is why we now try and coerce 2D hardware to do a 1D job.
> >
> > I actually think using a 2D camera might be superior in many ways.
> > Besides ready availability of interchangeable equipment,  it would
> > also be more forgiving of camera movement while also allowing you to
> > readily remove moving object artifacts.
>
> That's a point (or two, rather ;-)
>
> And maybe trying to do stay 1D and even 2D is too limiting anyway -
> eventually, we'll embrace 3D scene reconstruction, and for that
> purpose parallax becomes an asset.
>
> Kay
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic

[Robert Krawitz]

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:29:23 -0800 (PST), kfj wrote:
>
> On 16 Nov., 09:25, JohnPW  wrote:
>> Ha! Just as I expected someone with a good knowledge of the subject
>> has responded as I wrote this.
>> ...
>> But I really think using a camera that can
>> take movies might be a good way to go (see below.) The idea being, the
>> more images you capture, the less of each one you use. Ideally you
>> would only end up using the very center most part of each image. Being
>> handy with scripting would help a lot here (I am definitely not!)
>
> This is really the idea of the line camera:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotating_line_camera
>
> Just a wild idea here: if I'm not mistaken, there are shutters which
> are made of a black piece of material with a slit, and the material is
> moved so that the slit moves over the sensor - okay, I checked myself,
> they are called focal plain shutters:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focal_plane_shutter

Almost all modern consumer and prosumer level cameras (and all of the
mainstream SLR systems) use focal plane shutters.  The alternative is
a leaf shutter, which needs to be built into the lens.  That was
common on rangefinder cameras, and many medium format and all large
format cameras use leaf shutters in the lens.

> now if you'd use such a device in a moving camera so that the slit was
> small, but the exposure was long (I'm not sure this can be done with
> these shutter as they come) you might end up with an image similar to
> what you'd get from a line camera. You might have to rotate the camera
> at the same time, or you might use a special lens that only shows a
> vertical strip anyway (cylindrical, I'd imagine?).

You can't do that with any focal plane shutter I'm aware of.  The
curtains of the shutter move at a fixed (fast) speed.  Sometimes you
can see the effect of the moving shutter, e. g. when photographing a
propeller-driven aircraft.

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic

[Bruno Postle]

On Tue 15-Nov-2011 at 21:25 -0800, Syv Ritch wrote:


I want one long photo that is like standing in front of each house,
perpendicular, for the whole street.



I thought of doing many small panos of 2 images and each one covering
3 to 4 houses. I was going to do the panos to simplify, there are 37
houses on that street.


This is the way to go if the building facades don't follow the 
street edge closely or there is lots of complex roof detail.  I put 
my notes for stitching linear mosaics here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36383814@N00/5830006193/

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic

[Syv Ritch]

On 11/15/11, JohnPW  wrote:
> At the risk of sounding like a moron (as I usually do) I'll respond.

No you are not.

> I've only recently experimented with this myself. But my initial
> thought is, "Do you want a mosaic or a pano?"
> Actually, it really sounds like you might want a linear pano rather
> than a mosaic. Or possibly a series of partial panos joined into a
> linear pano?

Please forgive me but English is neither my first or my second language.

I want one photo of the whole street, what you would call a "linear
pano". Never heard of that expression before, but it makes sense.

I want one long photo that is like standing in front of each house,
perpendicular, for the whole street.

I used the word "mosaic" because a couple of month ago there was a
thread on how to make a mosaic, and I thought that we were talking
about the same thing.

> Another approach (which you also touch on) is a linear
> series of conventional panoramas (like Google StreetView.) But you
> imply that you want to make partial panoramas and stitch them
> together into one large, long image like a linear panorama.
> So maybe you haven't decided for sure what your final product should
> be? What is your aim?

I thought of doing many small panos of 2 images and each one covering
3 to 4 houses. I was going to do the panos to simplify, there are 37
houses on that street.

Thanks

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic mode - experience & questions

[Bruno Postle]

You can put a photo 'on top' in the preview by using the Identify mode, move 
the mouse pointer over the image numbers and each appears on top in turn. You 
can permanently put a photo on top by rearranging the list of photos in the 
Images tab.

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic mode - experience & questions

[Oskar Sander]

Yes,  agree.  The idea with deliberate selections sounds really good.

Is there a way today to make an image to end up "on top" in the
preview?   This would help draging as well as verifying
alignment/contribution of one specific image without having to turn
off adjacent images.

Cheers
/O



2010/10/31 Yuval Levy :
> Hi Darko,
>
> On October 29, 2010 10:59:44 am Darko Makreshanski wrote:
>> On 10/29/2010 10:22 AM, voschix wrote:
>> > 5.  the possibility to move, and zoom in and out in the preview window
>> > without changing the X, Y parameters.
>>
>> Hi, you can use the new 'Overview' in mosaic mode and zoom in/out and
>> move around the scene. Also I believe you can use the Overview to drag
>> the images as well. (only in a group though)
>
> If I am not mistaken 'Overview' mode is still in a development branch?
>
> I think it is becoming an expressed need and I add my voice, repeating what I
> expressed on the GSoC 2010 mentors list that (after the
> gsoc2010_panorama_overview integration) we should add:
>
> * more flexible dragging of images in preview mode.  right now it is only in a
> group, and the CPs link such a group.  I'd  like to move individual images;
> individual stacks;  deliberate selections of images (shift-click to add/remove
> to/from selection)
>
> * *real* zoom in and out in the preview mode, as opposed to changing output
> parameters with the FOV slider
>
> Yuv
>



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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic mode - experience & questions

[Yuval Levy]

Hi Darko,

On October 29, 2010 10:59:44 am Darko Makreshanski wrote:
> On 10/29/2010 10:22 AM, voschix wrote:
> > 5.  the possibility to move, and zoom in and out in the preview window
> > without changing the X, Y parameters.
> 
> Hi, you can use the new 'Overview' in mosaic mode and zoom in/out and
> move around the scene. Also I believe you can use the Overview to drag
> the images as well. (only in a group though)

If I am not mistaken 'Overview' mode is still in a development branch?

I think it is becoming an expressed need and I add my voice, repeating what I 
expressed on the GSoC 2010 mentors list that (after the 
gsoc2010_panorama_overview integration) we should add:

* more flexible dragging of images in preview mode.  right now it is only in a 
group, and the CPs link such a group.  I'd  like to move individual images; 
individual stacks;  deliberate selections of images (shift-click to add/remove 
to/from selection)

* *real* zoom in and out in the preview mode, as opposed to changing output 
parameters with the FOV slider

Yuv


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic mode - experience & questions

[Oskar Sander]

Cool Darko, should I enter a bug for it?

How about the translation ratio? Is that an effect of the x,y movement from
the mouse translating to something different on the panosphere?

Cheers
/O

2010/10/29 Darko Makreshanski 

> Hi,
>
>
> On 10/29/2010 10:22 AM, voschix wrote:
>
>> 5.  the possibility to move, and zoom in and out in the preview window
>> without changing the X, Y parameters.
>>
>>
>>
> Hi, you can use the new 'Overview' in mosaic mode and zoom in/out and move
> around the scene. Also I believe you can use the Overview to drag the images
> as well. (only in a group though)
>
>  On Oct 28, 10:04 pm, Oskar Sander  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> 2 When dragging in mosaic mode, there is a trace line that does not seem
>>> to
>>>
>>> make sense. What does it mean?  Is this something that works with normal
>>> drag only?
>>>
>>>
>>
>  3 When dragging, there is not direct correspondence with the movement, and
>>> the mouse translation.  Is this because I'm looking at the transformed
>>> result but modifying an indirect parameter, or is this wrong?   Anyhow,
>>> it
>>> would be useful to get it more responsive, either if it possible to
>>> compute
>>> the transform for each image movement if possible, or if that is to
>>> complicated, at least to have a "gear" to move the image in for example
>>> 1x,
>>> 2x and 4x
>>>
>>>
>> As I have done the dragging in mosaic mode as the sample patch for GSOC, I
> might explain some things.
>
> The trace should correspond with the trace when you are dragging in normal
> mode, and it represent the motion on the theoretical panosphere.
>
> Ideally when you are dragging in mosaic mode the photos that you are
> dragging should drag with the trace, however instead of y,p,r the x,y,z
> parameters are changed.
> This however doesn't happen currently so it's a bug, that I will look into
> when I get a chance.
>
> Best,
> Darko
>
>
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Mosaic mode - experience & questions

[Darko Makreshanski]

Hi,

On 10/29/2010 10:22 AM, voschix wrote:

5.  the possibility to move, and zoom in and out in the preview window
without changing the X, Y parameters.

   
Hi, you can use the new 'Overview' in mosaic mode and zoom in/out and 
move around the scene. Also I believe you can use the Overview to drag 
the images as well. (only in a group though)



On Oct 28, 10:04 pm, Oskar Sander  wrote:
   

2 When dragging in mosaic mode, there is a trace line that does not seem to
make sense. What does it mean?  Is this something that works with normal
drag only?
 



3 When dragging, there is not direct correspondence with the movement, and
the mouse translation.  Is this because I'm looking at the transformed
result but modifying an indirect parameter, or is this wrong?   Anyhow, it
would be useful to get it more responsive, either if it possible to compute
the transform for each image movement if possible, or if that is to
complicated, at least to have a "gear" to move the image in for example 1x,
2x and 4x
 
As I have done the dragging in mosaic mode as the sample patch for GSOC, 
I might explain some things.


The trace should correspond with the trace when you are dragging in 
normal mode, and it represent the motion on the theoretical panosphere.


Ideally when you are dragging in mosaic mode the photos that you are 
dragging should drag with the trace, however instead of y,p,r the x,y,z 
parameters are changed.
This however doesn't happen currently so it's a bug, that I will look 
into when I get a chance.


Best,
Darko

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