Re: [IAEP] Fwd: Re: [SLOBS] Motion: Solicit Membership Donations + Public Statements

[Walter Bender]

On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 10:56 AM, Caryl Bigenho <cbige...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> To reply would require naming names, times, and places. I prefer not to
> get that personal. The issues I refer to have been discussed at length by
> others in the past.
>

I had asked you off list so that you could choose to be discrete regarding
public airing of indiscretions. I remain ignorant of what you are referring
to and would appreciate a response.

I'd also like an explanation of seeming contradiction between your position
regarding earmarked funds: on the one hand you say you don't want to
provide general funds because they can be used generally and on the other,
you suggested that earmarked funds be used generally. I am confused.

regards.

-walter

>
> Caryl
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 24, 2016, at 5:31 AM, Walter Bender <walter.ben...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 2:40 AM, Caryl Bigenho <cbige...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi All….
>>
>> Busy time for us so I haven't had a chance to chime in on the motion for
>> "dues." I personally do not care to contribute any unearmarked funds to
>> SugarLabs. I am not at all pleased at the way funds have been carelessly
>> disbursed to a select few in the past and feel no need to send my good
>> money off to be used in a similar fashion.
>>
>
> This is a serious accusation. (A) I am not aware of any carelessly
> disbursed funds; (B) you recently suggested (in a comment on the Financial
> Manager motion) that the earmarked funds should be spent on whatever we
> want, since "times change", a notion I strongly object to. I would
> appreciate a clarification.
>
> regards.
>
> -walter
>
>
>> Every year at tax time we enumerate our contributions in support of
>> SugarLabs, and other sub-organizations, and I can assure you they are
>> substantial They include such things as expenses to attend conferences,
>> booth banners, printing costs for hand-outs etc. We reach hundreds of
>> potential Sugar users and, occasionally, potential Sugar  "contributors."
>>
>> Meanwhile, SugarLabs funds are freely distributed to others to cover
>> their expenses to do similar things and other things that have far smaller
>> "returns on investment." So, although I cannot vote on this (since I am not
>> a member of SLOB), I do want to voice my opposition to this motion.
>>
>> I am not alone in this.
>>
>> I think if it passes you will lose many members who are strong supporters
>> of Sugar and open source but feel, as I do, that SugarLabs is not the only
>> way to do it. Put simply, they will "vote with their feet."
>>
>> I have no objection to contributing something "in kind" in lieu of dues…
>> a new banner, some clever swag or the like to use in marketing Sugar and
>> SugarLabs. But, dues… no thanks!
>>
>> Caryl
>>
>> --
>> From: d...@lab6.com
>> Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 10:00:14 -0400
>> To: tony_ander...@usa.net
>> CC: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> Subject: Re: [IAEP] Fwd: Re: [SLOBS] Motion: Solicit Membership Donations
>> + Public Statements
>>
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> On 23 May 2016 at 09:44, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net> wrote:
>>
>> I am not aware of any method to donate money to Sugar Labs. I understand
>> we need to make the donations to SFC and somehow have the money arrive in
>> our funds.
>>
>>
>> That's right.
>>
>> The #1 service for member projects listed at http://sfconservancy.org/
>> members/services/ is:
>>
>> *Tax-Deductible, Earmarked Donations*
>>
>> Member projects can receive earmarked donations through Conservancy.
>> Since Conservancy is a 501(c)(3) charity incorporated in New York, donors
>> can often deduct the donation on their USA taxes. Additionally, the donors
>> can indicate that their donation should be used to advance a specific
>> member project, and those funds are kept in a separate account for the
>> member project by Conservancy. This structure prevents developers from
>> having to commingle project funds with their own personal accounts or
>> having to set up their own project specific account.
>>
>> Since Conservancy is a tax-exempt organization, there are some limits
>> that the law places on what member projects can do with their assets, but
>> those limits are the same as if the project was an independent non-profit
>> entity. Usually, the project leadership instructs Conservancy's leadership
>> on how the project's 

Re: [IAEP] Fwd: Re: [SLOBS] Motion: Solicit Membership Donations + Public Statements

[Caryl Bigenho]

To reply would require naming names, times, and places. I prefer not to get 
that personal. The issues I refer to have been discussed at length by others in 
the past. 

Caryl 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 24, 2016, at 5:31 AM, Walter Bender <walter.ben...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 2:40 AM, Caryl Bigenho <cbige...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi All….
>> 
>> Busy time for us so I haven't had a chance to chime in on the motion for 
>> "dues." I personally do not care to contribute any unearmarked funds to 
>> SugarLabs. I am not at all pleased at the way funds have been carelessly 
>> disbursed to a select few in the past and feel no need to send my good money 
>> off to be used in a similar fashion.
>  
> This is a serious accusation. (A) I am not aware of any carelessly disbursed 
> funds; (B) you recently suggested (in a comment on the Financial Manager 
> motion) that the earmarked funds should be spent on whatever we want, since 
> "times change", a notion I strongly object to. I would appreciate a 
> clarification.
> 
> regards.
> 
> -walter
> 
>> 
>> Every year at tax time we enumerate our contributions in support of 
>> SugarLabs, and other sub-organizations, and I can assure you they are 
>> substantial They include such things as expenses to attend conferences, 
>> booth banners, printing costs for hand-outs etc. We reach hundreds of 
>> potential Sugar users and, occasionally, potential Sugar  "contributors." 
>> 
>> Meanwhile, SugarLabs funds are freely distributed to others to cover their 
>> expenses to do similar things and other things that have far smaller 
>> "returns on investment." So, although I cannot vote on this (since I am not 
>> a member of SLOB), I do want to voice my opposition to this motion.
>> 
>> I am not alone in this.  
>> 
>> I think if it passes you will lose many members who are strong supporters of 
>> Sugar and open source but feel, as I do, that SugarLabs is not the only way 
>> to do it. Put simply, they will "vote with their feet."
>> 
>> I have no objection to contributing something "in kind" in lieu of dues… a 
>> new banner, some clever swag or the like to use in marketing Sugar and 
>> SugarLabs. But, dues… no thanks!
>> 
>> Caryl
>> 
>> From: d...@lab6.com
>> Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 10:00:14 -0400
>> To: tony_ander...@usa.net
>> CC: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> Subject: Re: [IAEP] Fwd: Re: [SLOBS] Motion: Solicit Membership Donations + 
>> Public Statements
>> 
>> 
>> Hi!
>> 
>> On 23 May 2016 at 09:44, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net> wrote:
>> I am not aware of any method to donate money to Sugar Labs. I understand we 
>> need to make the donations to SFC and somehow have the money arrive in our 
>> funds. 
>> 
>> That's right. 
>> 
>> The #1 service for member projects listed at 
>> http://sfconservancy.org/members/services/ is:
>> 
>> Tax-Deductible, Earmarked Donations
>> 
>> Member projects can receive earmarked donations through Conservancy. Since 
>> Conservancy is a 501(c)(3) charity incorporated in New York, donors can 
>> often deduct the donation on their USA taxes. Additionally, the donors can 
>> indicate that their donation should be used to advance a specific member 
>> project, and those funds are kept in a separate account for the member 
>> project by Conservancy. This structure prevents developers from having to 
>> commingle project funds with their own personal accounts or having to set up 
>> their own project specific account.
>> 
>> Since Conservancy is a tax-exempt organization, there are some limits that 
>> the law places on what member projects can do with their assets, but those 
>> limits are the same as if the project was an independent non-profit entity. 
>> Usually, the project leadership instructs Conservancy's leadership on how 
>> the project's funds are spent. Conservancy spends these funds on the 
>> project's behalf on any expenses that constitute appropriate activity under 
>> Conservancy's 501(c)(3) not-for-profit mission. Some typical uses of 
>> earmarked donations by Conservancy's member projects are:
>> 
>> funding travel expenses for project developers to attend relevant 
>> conferences.
>> domain name fees, bandwidth costs, and computer equipment purchases.
>> purchasing media for distribution of project software at conferences and 
>> events.
>> paying key developers on a contractual basis to improv

Re: [IAEP] Fwd: Re: [SLOBS] Motion: Solicit Membership Donations + Public Statements

[Tony Anderson]

Hi Caryl

I totally agree. We should not require dues. We can ask for donations.

While the story is confused, my understanding is that the funds which 
you described as 'carelessly disbursed' were from a grant and not from 
donations to Sugar Labs.


Tony

On 05/24/2016 08:40 AM, Caryl Bigenho wrote:

Hi All….

Busy time for us so I haven't had a chance to chime in on the motion 
for "dues." I personally do not care to contribute any unearmarked 
funds to SugarLabs. I am not at all pleased at the way funds have been 
carelessly disbursed to a select few in the past and feel no need to 
send my good money off to be used in a similar fashion.


Every year at tax time we enumerate our contributions in support of 
SugarLabs, and other sub-organizations, and I can assure you they are 
substantial They include such things as expenses to attend 
conferences, booth banners, printing costs for hand-outs etc. We reach 
hundreds of potential Sugar users and, occasionally, potential Sugar 
 "contributors."


Meanwhile, SugarLabs funds are freely distributed to others to cover 
their expenses to do similar things and other things that have far 
smaller "returns on investment." So, although I cannot vote on this 
(since I am not a member of SLOB), I do want to voice my opposition to 
this motion.


I am not alone in this.

I think if it passes you will lose many members who are strong 
supporters of Sugar and open source but feel, as I do, that SugarLabs 
is not the only way to do it. Put simply, they will "vote with their 
feet."


I have no objection to contributing something "in kind" in lieu of 
dues… a new banner, some clever swag or the like to use in marketing 
Sugar and SugarLabs. But, dues… no thanks!


Caryl


From: d...@lab6.com
Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 10:00:14 -0400
To: tony_ander...@usa.net
CC: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: Re: [IAEP] Fwd: Re: [SLOBS] Motion: Solicit Membership 
Donations + Public Statements


Hi!

On 23 May 2016 at 09:44, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net 
<mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:


I am not aware of any method to donate money to Sugar Labs. I
understand we need to make the donations to SFC and somehow have
the money arrive in our funds.


That's right.

The #1 service for member projects listed at 
http://sfconservancy.org/members/services/ is:


*Tax-Deductible, Earmarked Donations*

Member projects can receive earmarked donations through
Conservancy. Since Conservancy is a 501(c)(3) charity incorporated
in New York, donors can often deduct the donation on their USA
taxes. Additionally, the donors can indicate that their donation
should be used to advance a specific member project, and those
funds are kept in a separate account for the member project by
Conservancy. This structure prevents developers from having to
commingle project funds with their own personal accounts or having
to set up their own project specific account.

Since Conservancy is a tax-exempt organization, there are some
limits that the law places on what member projects can do with
their assets, but those limits are the same as if the project was
an independent non-profit entity. Usually, the project leadership
instructs Conservancy's leadership on how the project's funds are
spent. Conservancy spends these funds on the project's behalf on
any expenses that constitute appropriate activity under
Conservancy's 501(c)(3) not-for-profit mission. Some typical uses
of earmarked donations by Conservancy's member projects are:

  o funding travel expenses for project developers to attend
relevant conferences.
  o domain name fees, bandwidth costs, and computer equipment
purchases.
  o purchasing media for distribution of project software at
conferences and events.
  o paying key developers on a contractual basis to improve the
project's software and its documentation.
  o sponsoring and organizing conferences for the project.
  o trademark registration and enforcement.
  o FLOSS license enforcement and compliance activity.


http://sfconservancy.org/donate/ says,

*Donate to Our Member Projects*


Finally, Conservancy also maintains directed donation programs for
its member projects. Donation links for these directed donation
programs are typically found on the individual websites of our
members.


https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Donate says,

Mail us a check

Please make your check payable to:


Software Freedom Conservancy, Inc.

and place this note in the memo field:


Directed donation: Sugar Labs

Checks should then be mailed to:


Software Freedom Conservancy, Inc.

137 MONTAGUE ST STE 380

Brooklyn, NY 11201-3548

USA


This needs to be made very cl

Re: [IAEP] Fwd: Re: [SLOBS] Motion: Solicit Membership Donations + Public Statements

[Caryl Bigenho]

Hi All….
Busy time for us so I haven't had a chance to chime in on the motion for 
"dues." I personally do not care to contribute any unearmarked funds to 
SugarLabs. I am not at all pleased at the way funds have been carelessly 
disbursed to a select few in the past and feel no need to send my good money 
off to be used in a similar fashion.
Every year at tax time we enumerate our contributions in support of SugarLabs, 
and other sub-organizations, and I can assure you they are substantial They 
include such things as expenses to attend conferences, booth banners, printing 
costs for hand-outs etc. We reach hundreds of potential Sugar users and, 
occasionally, potential Sugar  "contributors." 
Meanwhile, SugarLabs funds are freely distributed to others to cover their 
expenses to do similar things and other things that have far smaller "returns 
on investment." So, although I cannot vote on this (since I am not a member of 
SLOB), I do want to voice my opposition to this motion.
I am not alone in this.  
I think if it passes you will lose many members who are strong supporters of 
Sugar and open source but feel, as I do, that SugarLabs is not the only way to 
do it. Put simply, they will "vote with their feet."
I have no objection to contributing something "in kind" in lieu of dues… a new 
banner, some clever swag or the like to use in marketing Sugar and SugarLabs. 
But, dues… no thanks!
Caryl
From: d...@lab6.com
Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 10:00:14 -0400
To: tony_ander...@usa.net
CC: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: Re: [IAEP] Fwd: Re: [SLOBS] Motion: Solicit Membership Donations + 
Public Statements

Hi!
On 23 May 2016 at 09:44, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net> wrote:
I am not aware of any method to donate money to Sugar Labs. I understand we 
need to make the donations to SFC and somehow have the money arrive in our 
funds. 
That's right. 
The #1 service for member projects listed at 
http://sfconservancy.org/members/services/ is:

Tax-Deductible, Earmarked Donations
Member projects can receive earmarked donations through Conservancy. Since 
Conservancy is a 501(c)(3) charity incorporated in New York, donors can often 
deduct the donation on their USA taxes. Additionally, the donors can indicate 
that their donation should be used to advance a specific member project, and 
those funds are kept in a separate account for the member project by 
Conservancy. This structure prevents developers from having to commingle 
project funds with their own personal accounts or having to set up their own 
project specific account.
Since Conservancy is a tax-exempt organization, there are some limits that the 
law places on what member projects can do with their assets, but those limits 
are the same as if the project was an independent non-profit entity. Usually, 
the project leadership instructs Conservancy's leadership on how the project's 
funds are spent. Conservancy spends these funds on the project's behalf on any 
expenses that constitute appropriate activity under Conservancy's 501(c)(3) 
not-for-profit mission. Some typical uses of earmarked donations by 
Conservancy's member projects are:
funding travel expenses for project developers to attend relevant 
conferences.domain name fees, bandwidth costs, and computer equipment 
purchases.purchasing media for distribution of project software at conferences 
and events.paying key developers on a contractual basis to improve the 
project's software and its documentation.sponsoring and organizing conferences 
for the project.trademark registration and enforcement.FLOSS license 
enforcement and compliance activity.
http://sfconservancy.org/donate/ says,

Donate to Our Member Projects
Finally, Conservancy also maintains directed donation programs for its member 
projects. Donation links for these directed donation programs are typically 
found on the individual websites of our members.
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Donate says,

Mail us a checkPlease make your check payable to:
Software Freedom Conservancy, Inc.and place this note in the memo field:
Directed donation: Sugar LabsChecks should then be mailed to:
Software Freedom Conservancy, Inc.137 MONTAGUE ST STE 380Brooklyn, NY 
11201-3548USA
This needs to be made very clear on the web site.

Sure :) Please draft something for what you think should be on the website 
donation page :) 
I am not referring to 'lying', I am referring to asking the
question. If it is a donation, a person can donate what they feel
comfortable with.
I don't understand your point :)
-- 
Cheers
Dave


___
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  ___
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Re: [IAEP] Fwd: Re: [SLOBS] Motion: Solicit Membership Donations + Public Statements

[Dave Crossland]

Hi!

On 23 May 2016 at 09:44, Tony Anderson  wrote:

> I am not aware of any method to donate money to Sugar Labs. I understand
> we need to make the donations to SFC and somehow have the money arrive in
> our funds.
>

That's right.

The #1 service for member projects listed at
http://sfconservancy.org/members/services/ is:

*Tax-Deductible, Earmarked Donations*

Member projects can receive earmarked donations through Conservancy. Since
Conservancy is a 501(c)(3) charity incorporated in New York, donors can
often deduct the donation on their USA taxes. Additionally, the donors can
indicate that their donation should be used to advance a specific member
project, and those funds are kept in a separate account for the member
project by Conservancy. This structure prevents developers from having to
commingle project funds with their own personal accounts or having to set
up their own project specific account.

Since Conservancy is a tax-exempt organization, there are some limits that
the law places on what member projects can do with their assets, but those
limits are the same as if the project was an independent non-profit entity.
Usually, the project leadership instructs Conservancy's leadership on how
the project's funds are spent. Conservancy spends these funds on the
project's behalf on any expenses that constitute appropriate activity under
Conservancy's 501(c)(3) not-for-profit mission. Some typical uses of
earmarked donations by Conservancy's member projects are:


   - funding travel expenses for project developers to attend relevant
  conferences.
  - domain name fees, bandwidth costs, and computer equipment purchases.
  - purchasing media for distribution of project software at
  conferences and events.
  - paying key developers on a contractual basis to improve the
  project's software and its documentation.
  - sponsoring and organizing conferences for the project.
  - trademark registration and enforcement.
  - FLOSS license enforcement and compliance activity.


http://sfconservancy.org/donate/ says,

*Donate to Our Member Projects*


Finally, Conservancy also maintains directed donation programs for its
member projects. Donation links for these directed donation programs are
typically found on the individual websites of our members.


https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Donate says,

Mail us a check

Please make your check payable to:


Software Freedom Conservancy, Inc.

and place this note in the memo field:


Directed donation: Sugar Labs

Checks should then be mailed to:


Software Freedom Conservancy, Inc.

137 MONTAGUE ST STE 380

Brooklyn, NY 11201-3548

USA


This needs to be made very clear on the web site.
>

Sure :) Please draft something for what you think should be on the website
donation page :)


> I am not referring to 'lying', I am referring to asking the question. If
> it is a donation, a person can donate what they feel comfortable with.
>

I don't understand your point :)

-- 
Cheers
Dave
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [IAEP] Fwd: Re: [SLOBS] Motion: Solicit Membership Donations + Public Statements

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Dave

I am not aware of any method to donate money to Sugar Labs. I understand 
we need to make the donations to SFC and somehow have the money

arrive in our funds. This needs to be made very clear on the web site.

I am not referring to 'lying', I am referring to asking the question. If 
it is a donation, a person can donate what they feel comfortable with.


Tony

On 05/23/2016 03:24 PM, Dave Crossland wrote:


Hi

On 23 May 2016 at 09:07, Tony Anderson > wrote:


I agree completely. However, if the donations are requested, I
think we should suggest 'typical' amounts.


Both my and Sean's motions include suggested amounts :)

This is a world-wide organization so we need to be careful about
defining 'self-identifying as low-income'.


Why? Anyone can lie about it, and that's totally fine with me.

So I would amend the motion to

Motion: To request donations from Sugar Labs Members and the
general public, to be allocated to the General Fund through the
SFC. A simple payment method will be implemented (e.g. Pay Pal,
credit/debit cards) ensuring tax-exemption where possible.


We don't need a motion to solicit general donations, nor state that a 
simple payment method will be implemented, because we already do both 
of those things :)


--
Cheers
Dave


___
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IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [IAEP] Fwd: Re: [SLOBS] Motion: Solicit Membership Donations + Public Statements

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

On 23 May 2016 at 09:07, Tony Anderson  wrote:

> I agree completely. However, if the donations are requested, I think we
> should suggest 'typical' amounts.
>

Both my and Sean's motions include suggested amounts :)


> This is a world-wide organization so we need to be careful about defining
> 'self-identifying as low-income'.
>

Why? Anyone can lie about it, and that's totally fine with me.


> So I would amend the motion to
>
> Motion: To request donations from Sugar Labs Members and the general
> public, to be allocated to the General Fund through the SFC. A simple
> payment method will be implemented (e.g. Pay Pal, credit/debit cards)
> ensuring tax-exemption where possible.
>

We don't need a motion to solicit general donations, nor state that a
simple payment method will be implemented, because we already do both of
those things :)

-- 
Cheers
Dave
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

[IAEP] Fwd: Re: [SLOBS] Motion: Solicit Membership Donations + Public Statements

[Tony Anderson]

I agree completely. However, if the donations are requested, I think we 
should suggest 'typical' amounts. This is a world-wide organization so 
we need

to be careful about defining 'self-identifying as low-income'.

So I would amend the motion to

Motion: To request donations from Sugar Labs Members and the general 
public, to be allocated to the General Fund through the SFC. A simple 
payment method will be implemented (e.g. Pay Pal, credit/debit cards) 
ensuring tax-exemption where possible.


Tony

On 05/23/2016 10:42 AM, Sean DALY wrote:
Handing over marketing to anyone with a deep pocket is 
incomprehensible to me, I'd much rather just see "gold sponsor status" 
or something similar. Do people really need the recognition?


I'm also confused about the public statement bit - don't we already 
have member pages? Important contributions are made by members who 
already donate their time and would perhaps prefer not to donate funds 
too, do they get to do a public statement?


Social media offers a very effective means for microdonation 
fundraising drives, and we haven't done that yet. As I understand it, 
this is more like voluntary membership dues - a fundraising drive 
(which would be associated with a tangible goal, e.g. an alternate 
hardware platform) would be separate.


In my view, requesting conditions or offering perks shouldn't be 
associated with voluntary membership dues. I'd prefer the following:


Motion: To request donations from Sugar Labs Members, to be allocated 
to the General Fund through the SFC. The annual donation requested 
will be $12 USD from members who self-identify as low-income (such as 
students); $36, $120, or $600 USD from general members.


Sean



On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 8:05 PM, Dave Crossland > wrote:



Hi

Motion: To request a membership donation from each currently
active Sugar Labs Member to be allocated to the General Fund for
the calendar year of 2016, and a public statement about how they
use Sugar and why they are involved in Sugar Labs to post on the
website; there is no penalty for not paying a membership or not
providing a statement; by default members who donate will be kept
private, and requested to opt-in to be recognised. The donation
requested will be $12 USD from members who self-identify as
low-income (such as students); $36 USD from general members; $120
from members who can opt-in to be placed prominently on the
website; and $600 from members who can (privately if they wish)
submit a release codename, subject to SLOB approval.

--
Cheers
Dave

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