Re: FW: GETMAIN/FREEMAIN and virtual storage backing up

2007-10-09 Thread Hunkeler Peter (KIUK 3)
Sorry, I spelled your name wrong..

I've survived it ;-)


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Re: GETMAIN/FREEMAIN and virtual storage backing up

2007-10-09 Thread Hunkeler Peter (KIUK 3)
  Keep in mind that MVS is permitted to move a unfixed backed DREF
page to another real frame, so do not assume that the real address
of an unfixed backed DREF page will not change. 
 
...which makes DREF storage behave more like pageable storage than
fixed (like xxSQA): It is not backed until referenced, it can be
paged out (when there is ESTOR, so not on z/OS).

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Re: MAS from Bus-Tech

2007-10-09 Thread Brian Westerman
Hi Walter,

Several of our customer sites are using the MAS (I think they number over
30).  I wrote several utility programs that are now offered with the MAS,
and I have some others that they (as yet) don't include with the product. 
One of them (since you're z/OS.e) is a very quite (4 step) process that
eliminates the necessity of you needing a tape management system to keep the
MAS and your catalogs in sync.  

I've been impressed with the MAS, it has a lot of features that are very
useful, and when it's a fit for your site, it can work out very well.  One
thing to keep in mind though is that if it doesn't fit, don't try to force
it to work for you.  There are some more sophisticated VTS's out there for
sites that need all of the extra features, but if you don't, it can be a
very cost effective unit.

If you want to discuss it, please feel free to contact me offline.

Brian Westerman

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Re: CRON Question

2007-10-09 Thread Hunkeler Peter (KIUK 3)
Why does z/OS-1.4 USS cron die/stop/go away without any trace of a 
cause?

How do you recognize it's gone. How do you start it? Any BPX messages
in SYSLOG?

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Re: GETMAIN/FREEMAIN and virtual storage backing up

2007-10-09 Thread Johnny Luo
Peter,

My understanding for what Jim said is a little different.

Actually Jim wrote something about DREF three years ago and I happened to
find it in the archive:

---
There are some important differences between *DREF* and
fixed storage even when there is no expanded storage.

1.  *DREF* storage does not get backed until it is
  referenced (other than the first page of the Getmain request).

2.  The real storage address backing a *DREF* page can be changed
  at the whim of RSM.  The real address backing a fixed page can
  only be changed by swap processing (and thus cannot change while
  you are non-swappable, or holding serialialization which prevents
  you from being swapped (like your local lock or by being disabled).

-

So my understanding is:

After your first reference to a DREF page, the frame *can be copied to ESTOR
if you have that stuff.  Even if we don't have ESTOR, something still can be
done by RSM for DREF frame which is impossible for FIXED frame.

That is, RSM can directly copy the DREF frame to another frame.  So the real
address for a DREF page can change even without ESTOR and swapping out.

On 10/9/07, Hunkeler Peter (KIUK 3) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

   Keep in mind that MVS is permitted to move a unfixed backed DREF
 page to another real frame, so do not assume that the real address
 of an unfixed backed DREF page will not change.

 ...which makes DREF storage behave more like pageable storage than
 fixed (like xxSQA): It is not backed until referenced, it can be
 paged out (when there is ESTOR, so not on z/OS).

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 Credit Suisse




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Re: Hipersockets performance

2007-10-09 Thread Jan MOEYERSONS
 STOR 'NULLFILE'
125 Storing data set NULLFILE

... I wonder where it went?


Would that not be the equivalent of a dummy file? I seem to remember that

//NONO  DD DSN=NULLFILE

is the same as

//NONO  DD DUMMY 


Cheers,

Jantje.

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Re: Hipersockets performance

2007-10-09 Thread R.S.

Jan MOEYERSONS wrote:

STOR 'NULLFILE'
   125 Storing data set NULLFILE

... I wonder where it went?



Would that not be the equivalent of a dummy file? I seem to remember that

//NONO  DD DSN=NULLFILE

is the same as

//NONO  DD DUMMY 



It is the same. However NULLFILE can be used in FTP (as file name), 
while DD DUMMY would require special syntax.

What's funny, NULLFILE requires RACF authorization. At least in ftp.

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Re: CRON Question

2007-10-09 Thread Big Iron
I haven't seen it do that. Did you check the cron log and the USS syslog?
You may wish to post to MVS-OE for USS questions; see
http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?mvs-oe
for archives  subscription info.

Bill

On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 11:56:42 -0500, Adam Floro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Why does z/OS-1.4 USS cron die/stop/go away without any trace of a cause?


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Access account info (SMF 30) for running USS process

2007-10-09 Thread Miklos Szigetvari

Hi

I would like to access the accounting info's (SMF 30 records) for 
running USS processes.
I'm testing now the ERBDSQRY  and ERBDSREC interface from RMF, but not 
very satisfied with the results:


- the RMF  SMF data buffer option should be on
- I can retrieve the SMF 30 records, but I have to select from a large 
list  the records for a given address space or jobname
- for a started task USS server address space I didn't find the proper 
info although the the SMF STC INTVAL is set



I also tested the  ERB2XDGS to get the RMF records, but for USS I found 
the SMF 30 USS section contains more usable info's  as the SMF 79 records.


If someone has maybe a better idea.

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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Peter Relson
ENABLED(INACTIVE)
means that there is already a PER type slip active in the system.

No it doesn't. It means that SLIP was unable to find the module in one of
the address spaces, and thus is waiting for a subsequent load of that
module to occur at which point the trap could/would be activated.

Note that if you specify multiple ASIDs, and the module is not at the same
address in both ASIDs, you'll get a trap set at the first address range it
found in one of those address spaces. One SLIP trap cannot cover two
different ranges.

It wasn't the case here, apparently, but if the module was loaded via LOAD
with ADDR= and DE= I doubt that SLIP would find a matching PVTMOD as there
is no CDE maintained for that module.

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design

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Re: Dynamic load module name extraction?

2007-10-09 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on
10/08/2007
   at 01:30 PM, Craddock, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

Clearly it won't tell you which entry point was used since that is
completely un-knowable.

No it isn't; you can sometimes tell by looking at the CDE chained off the
PRB.

but it's entirely possible that no formal interface at all was used.

Lot's of things are possible. Most of them are irrelevant. I had a reason
for writing Depending on  what the OP needs: it really does change the
appropriate answer.

However, everything that -is- knowable is returned by CSVQUERY,

No, because it doesn't know which, if any, minor CDE is relevant. Looking
at the PRB can give you information that you can't get with just CSVQUERY.
 
-- 
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 ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html 
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Re: z/OS 1.4 upgrade to allow operation on a z9.

2007-10-09 Thread Pommier, Rex R.
It's ancient history now (about 18 months ago) but we upgraded from a
7060 to a z9 running z/OS 1.4.  As others have stated, it was merely
getting the exploitation feature and installing it.  The upgrade went
smoothly and I don't recall any issues.  We're still running the 1.4
code and still have no issues, although a caveat is that we're running a
pretty vanilla machine.

Rex 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Murray M. Robinson
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 3:41 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: z/OS 1.4 upgrade to allow operation on a z9.

Some days ago I noticed a request as to how difficult the move from a
z900 to a z9 with the now unsupported release of z/OS 1.4.  It looked
like you just had to apply the appropriate compatibility PTFs and PSP
buckets. 
However, I either did not see or missed if this was done using the
ORDERABLE comparability functions while z/OS 1.4 was still supported.
The only way now is to download the z990 Exploitation Support for z/OS
V1.4 from the web. This has the compatibility functions bundled in with
other exploitation changes (which I don't really need). Has anyone  used
this method to get there operating system ready for a new machine, and
if so how bad was the maintenance process.  We don't have to run the
z/OS 1.4 image for long on the new machine but we have a push pull
machine change so have to feel comfortable about image coming up. It is
also part of an existing SYSPlex contained on the one machine ( the
others being z/OS 1.7 so only PSP bucket fixes for them),  don't know if
that complicates matters or not.

Thanks.

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Re: IBM Google to promote computer programming for clouds

2007-10-09 Thread Diehl, Gary (MVSSupport)
Client/Server clusters?
GDPS?
Grid Computing?

This is the next new thing?  Sounds to me they're trying to do for the
PC what RAID did for DASD.  Again.  Using a proven mainframe model,
without crediting it.  Again.

Maybe this time they'll succeed, without using up so much network
bandwidth as to make the whole setup too costly or unfeasible.

My 2 cents.

Gary Diehl
MVS Support
The glass is neither half full or half empty; the engineer who designed
the glass simply allowed for a 100% increase in fluid storage.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ed Gould
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 12:13 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: IBM  Google to promote computer programming for clouds

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DFHSM :ARC0560E - Message Clarity

2007-10-09 Thread willie bunter
Good Day To All,
   
  I was investigatin problem ARC0521I - the PRIMARY SPACE MANAGEMENT ended due 
to a ARC0521I COMPLETION, RESOURCES NOT AVAILABLE.  I found the message 
ARC0560E MIGRATION LIMITED: NO MIGRATION LEVEL 1 SPACE AVAILABLE, followed by 
subsequent messages :
  ARC0559I SPACE MANAGEMENT OF PROM116 WILL NOT TARGET 708 
ARC0559I (CONT.) MIGRATION LEVEL 1 UNTIL THE REQUESTED VOLUME TYPE I
ARC0559I (CONT.) MADE AVAILABLE 

  I checked the message ARC0560E explanation but it didn't tell me much only to 
say that the there was a lack of available space for LEVEL 1.  I added a 
level 1 volume but the problem didn't clear.  I added another one still the 
problem persisted.  Finally, I shutdown the STC and brought it up again.  For 
some reason the problem was fixed.  However, I am at a loss as to why this 
happened.  Were my actions correct?  Is there something else that I should have 
tried?  Please let me know.

 

   
-
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
 Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. 

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Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?

2007-10-09 Thread Staller, Allan
snip
Subject: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?
I spoke few days ago with an ADABAS specialist that claimed that ADABAS
is
much faster and has low overhead compared to IMS and DB2. Is this true? 
/snip

As with most things in this business, it depends.

The first question to ask is What source are you citing to support your
claim? Depending on the configuration and tuning options ADABAS may or
may not be faster than DB2. DB2 may or may not have a smaller footprint
than ADABAS.

Because IMS uses an entirely different technique to access data, it
*most likely* is somewhat faster than either IMS or DB2.

In order to obtain this speed, the flexibility of using SQL is
sacrificed.
(Actually it is the other way around IMS preceded DB2/ADABAS by several
years.

The relative speed that is important is the one for *YOUR* workload.
Anything else is meaningless noise. Thoroughly research the *features*
important to you and go with the product that provides the best feature
to price ratio for you.

HTH,

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Re: IBM Google to promote computer programming for clouds

2007-10-09 Thread Shane
On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 07:38 -0500, Diehl, Gary (MVSSupport) wrote:
 Client/Server clusters?
 GDPS?
 Grid Computing?
 
 This is the next new thing?

Don't be like that Gary. I twigged on this bit;
quote
Six universities will initially participate in a pilot program to work
out the kinks: the University of Washington, Stanford University,
University of California-Berkeley, Carnegie Mellon University,
Massachusetts Institute of Technology and University of Maryland.
/quote

Even lost in the wilds of the Aussie bush, I've heard of a couple of
those. Might all come to nought, but that lot have got the right
credentials ...

Shane ...

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Re: DFHSM :ARC0560E - Message Clarity

2007-10-09 Thread Adams, Rick
Did you release migration after you added the ML1 volume?  The message
MIGRATION LIMITED means that it held migration.

ThanksRick

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of willie bunter
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:58 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: DFHSM :ARC0560E - Message Clarity

Good Day To All,
   
  I was investigatin problem ARC0521I - the PRIMARY SPACE MANAGEMENT
ended due to a ARC0521I COMPLETION, RESOURCES NOT AVAILABLE.  I found
the message ARC0560E MIGRATION LIMITED: NO MIGRATION LEVEL 1 SPACE
AVAILABLE, followed by subsequent messages :
  ARC0559I SPACE MANAGEMENT OF PROM116 WILL NOT TARGET 708 
ARC0559I (CONT.) MIGRATION LEVEL 1 UNTIL THE REQUESTED VOLUME TYPE I
ARC0559I (CONT.) MADE AVAILABLE 

  I checked the message ARC0560E explanation but it didn't tell me much
only to say that the there was a lack of available space for LEVEL 1.
I added a level 1 volume but the problem didn't clear.  I added another
one still the problem persisted.  Finally, I shutdown the STC and
brought it up again.  For some reason the problem was fixed.  However,
I am at a loss as to why this happened.  Were my actions correct?  Is
there something else that I should have tried?  Please let me know.

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Re: DFHSM :ARC0560E - Message Clarity

2007-10-09 Thread willie bunter
No, I didn't.  I didn't see the message that the MIGRATION was held.  I will 
take note of this to add to my procedures.  Would you know if there is 
something else I should have done besides adding the disks?  I thought of doing 
a MIGRATE1 to MIGRATE2.  Would that have been a good move?

Adams, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Did you release migration after you 
added the ML1 volume? The message
MIGRATION LIMITED means that it held migration.

ThanksRick

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of willie bunter
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:58 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: DFHSM :ARC0560E - Message Clarity

Good Day To All,

I was investigatin problem ARC0521I - the PRIMARY SPACE MANAGEMENT
ended due to a ARC0521I COMPLETION, RESOURCES NOT AVAILABLE. I found
the message ARC0560E MIGRATION LIMITED: NO MIGRATION LEVEL 1 SPACE
AVAILABLE, followed by subsequent messages :
ARC0559I SPACE MANAGEMENT OF PROM116 WILL NOT TARGET 708 
ARC0559I (CONT.) MIGRATION LEVEL 1 UNTIL THE REQUESTED VOLUME TYPE I
ARC0559I (CONT.) MADE AVAILABLE 

I checked the message ARC0560E explanation but it didn't tell me much
only to say that the there was a lack of available space for LEVEL 1.
I added a level 1 volume but the problem didn't clear. I added another
one still the problem persisted. Finally, I shutdown the STC and
brought it up again. For some reason the problem was fixed. However,
I am at a loss as to why this happened. Were my actions correct? Is
there something else that I should have tried? Please let me know.

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-
 Check out  the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.

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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Edward Jaffe

Rick Fochtman wrote:
I can't help it; I've got to butt in here with one of my pet peeves. 
We'va all used GTF and SLIP at one time or another to try and debug 
system problems and, perhaps less often, application problems. I write 
almost all my code in Assembler and the lack of debugging tools that I 
can imbed into a product is one of my pet peeves. GTF quite often 
uses the MC instruction (like in GTRACE expansion) to hook into 
various routines at selected points. Why, in the name of all that's 
holy, can't application programmers, get access to the same kinds of 
interfaces? Freely granted, there's lots of room for abuse; freely 
granted that misuse, or overuse, can lead to severe performance 
issues. But a fast path mechanism through SPIE/ESPIE, just for MC 
interrupts, could be expanded into a wonderful debugging mechanism. 
And with all the skills represented on this list, it could catch on 
like wildfire for Assembler-language developers.


Most serious assembler language developers I know use this: 
http://www.colesoft.com/about.shtml


There is also IDF from the High Level Assembler Toolkit which has some 
nice features, but doesn't debug authorized, cross memory, or SRB mode 
code. The entire HLASM toolkit -- including the debugger -- is only 
$99/month.


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Los Angeles, CA 90045
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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Rick Fochtman

snip
No it doesn't. It means that SLIP was unable to find the module in one 
of the address spaces, and thus is waiting for a subsequent load of that 
module to occur at which point the trap could/would be activated.


Note that if you specify multiple ASIDs, and the module is not at the 
same address in both ASIDs, you'll get a trap set at the first address 
range it found in one of those address spaces. One SLIP trap cannot 
cover two different ranges.


It wasn't the case here, apparently, but if the module was loaded via 
LOAD with ADDR= and DE= I doubt that SLIP would find a matching PVTMOD 
as there is no CDE maintained for that module.

-unsnip--
I can't help it; I've got to butt in here with one of my pet peeves. 
We'va all used GTF and SLIP at one time or another to try and debug 
system problems and, perhaps less often, application problems. I write 
almost all my code in Assembler and the lack of debugging tools that I 
can imbed into a product is one of my pet peeves. GTF quite often uses 
the MC instruction (like in GTRACE expansion) to hook into various 
routines at selected points. Why, in the name of all that's holy, can't 
application programmers, get access to the same kinds of interfaces? 
Freely granted, there's lots of room for abuse; freely granted that 
misuse, or overuse, can lead to severe performance issues. But a fast 
path mechanism through SPIE/ESPIE, just for MC interrupts, could be 
expanded into a wonderful debugging mechanism. And with all the skills 
represented on this list, it could catch on like wildfire for 
Assembler-language developers.


(Never mind that I'm getting awful tired of trapping a EX of a EX 
instruction just to install a breakpoint!! :-) )


Any comments, Peter or Jim?

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Re: IBM Google to promote computer programming for clouds

2007-10-09 Thread Diehl, Gary (MVSSupport)
Shane,

I guess you're right.  I need more coffee this morning!  =)

Thanks,

Gary Diehl
MVS Support
The glass is neither half full or half empty; the engineer who designed
the glass simply allowed for a 100% increase in fluid storage.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Shane
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:17 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM  Google to promote computer programming for clouds

On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 07:38 -0500, Diehl, Gary (MVSSupport) wrote:
 Client/Server clusters?
 GDPS?
 Grid Computing?
 
 This is the next new thing?

Don't be like that Gary. I twigged on this bit;

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Re: Hipersockets performance

2007-10-09 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:01:28 +0200, R.S. wrote:

Jan MOEYERSONS wrote:
 STOR 'NULLFILE'
125 Storing data set NULLFILE

 ... I wonder where it went?

 Would that not be the equivalent of a dummy file? I seem to remember that

 //NONO  DD DSN=NULLFILE

 is the same as

 //NONO  DD DUMMY

True, unless John G. is lurking to dispute what it says in the RM.

It is the same. However NULLFILE can be used in FTP (as file name),
while DD DUMMY would require special syntax.
What's funny, NULLFILE requires RACF authorization. At least in ftp.

My puzzlement arose when I discovered that some UNIX-like utilities
such as ftp and cp fail when //'NULLFILE' is supplied as a source
file, but (ftp at least) can use it as a target file.  RACF seems
not to be the answer because I don't believe RACF supports allowing
write access to a data set while prohibiting read access.

My conjecture now is that such utilities will supply default DCB
attributes for an output data set, but not for an input data set:
it makes little sense to try to guess characteristics of an input
data set which has never been opened, while a reasonable guess can
be made for creating a new data set.  It's disappointing that such
utilities don't follow through with their support of Classic data
sets by displaying Classic messages such as IEC141I 013-nn which
are well described in MC.

(I'm guessing at the code; LOOKAT seems broken just now.)

-- gil

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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Binyamin Dissen
On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 09:07:12 -0500 Rick Fochtman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

:I write 
:almost all my code in Assembler and the lack of debugging tools that I 
:can imbed into a product is one of my pet peeves.

How would you like to imbed it?

How would you expect that the end user would enable it?

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Re: GETMAIN/FREEMAIN and virtual storage backing up

2007-10-09 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 10/03/2007
   at 10:18 AM, Tom Marchant [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

Just to nit pick a little...  It is not a 0C4, but a PIC 4.

No; 4 is protection. You'll get a page or segment[1] exception for an
unallocated page, depending on whether the segment is allocated.

[1] Or 64-bit equivalent.
 
-- 
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 ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
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Re: GETMAIN/FREEMAIN and virtual storage backing up

2007-10-09 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on
10/03/2007
   at 10:36 AM, Wayne Driscoll [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

This is an extremely complicated process, based on a number of factors,
many of which your program has no control.  However, your guess is
usually correct, in that if the page returned has never been allocated to
your program, then no real or aux storage will be allocated.  On the
first reference, the hardware will recognize an 0C4,

No, a PIC 0010 or 0011, unless there's something new in 64-bit mode. 0C4
is an overloaded ABEND code that can mean any of PIC 4, 10 or 11 in an
unexpected context.
 
-- 
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 ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
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Re: IBM Tivoli License Compliance Manager for z/OS

2007-10-09 Thread Richards.Bob
Bill,

Yes to both. I am not the end user, but am told that the group
responsible for it is quite happy with its functionality.

Bob Richards 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 9:56 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: IBM Tivoli License Compliance Manager for z/OS

We are doing some initial information gathering on IBM's Tivoli License
Compliance Manager for z/OS and was looking for any recommendations
and/or feedback from shops that might be using it currently. Is it doing
what it claims and how happy are you with it?
   
  TIA,
   
  Bill Johnson
  Systems Programmer
  Antares Management Solutions
  Cleveland, Ohio 
  
  
  
LEGAL DISCLAIMER 
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Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in 
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Re: GETMAIN/FREEMAIN and virtual storage backing up

2007-10-09 Thread Binyamin Dissen
On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 07:39:49 -0300 Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

:In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on
:10/03/2007
:   at 10:36 AM, Wayne Driscoll [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
:
:This is an extremely complicated process, based on a number of factors,
:many of which your program has no control.  However, your guess is
:usually correct, in that if the page returned has never been allocated to
:your program, then no real or aux storage will be allocated.  On the
:first reference, the hardware will recognize an 0C4,
:
:No, a PIC 0010 or 0011, unless there's something new in 64-bit mode. 0C4
:is an overloaded ABEND code that can mean any of PIC 4, 10 or 11 in an
:unexpected context.

Now there is region 1st, 2nd  3rd (39-3B) as well.

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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Craddock, Chris
Rick said;
 I can't help it; I've got to butt in here with one of my pet peeves.
 We'va all used GTF and SLIP at one time or another to try and debug
 system problems and, perhaps less often, application problems. I write
 almost all my code in Assembler and the lack of debugging tools that I
 can imbed into a product is one of my pet peeves. GTF quite often
uses
 the MC instruction (like in GTRACE expansion) to hook into various
 routines at selected points. Why, in the name of all that's holy,
can't
 application programmers, get access to the same kinds of interfaces?

Dude... check out the GTRACE macro, http://preview.tinyurl.com/2wfyrk 
GTRACE is the GTF interface and even though it is documented in the Auth
guides, the MC interface does not require authorization AT ALL. 

The down side is that all other aspects of GTF require some local
authority, to start GTF traces, and to get access to the trace dataset
and/or IPCS to process the output. In a lot of places those are
practically impossible for application people to get, but that's a site
choice. If you had a gnarly problem you might be allowed access. 

But if you just want first class real time debugging and you don't have
your own VM sandbox... Dave Cole's XDC is the only game in town. 

CC

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Re: problem with automatic handling of message IEC534D

2007-10-09 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Dan,

I have installed the current version of the MPFXTALL from Glen. Now it 
works as desired. Only 2 messages are issued that the first message is 
not a WTOR and therefore no reply is issued. I have suppressed them. 
Thanks for your hints.


kind regards
Franz Josef Pohlen


Dan D schrieb:
As it's from CBT, I suggest you either contact the author (Glenn 
Siegel) or see if someone else knows this utility.  It may have the 
capability now of GETing the next part of the message when the first 
IEC534D is seen.


After a quick peek at the code, I noticed that Glen has made other 
updates for users.  Maybe he'll add another keyword like REPLYWTOR so 
that it will only reply when the message is a WTOR, and ignore 
messages that are not.


Glen's email address is in the CBT file as well as his web site 
(google MPFXTALL).


Good luck.
Dan D

fjpohlen wrote:

It is the MPFXTALL from CBT. Where do I have to specify the parameter
list and how is it coded?

kind regards
Franz Josef Pohlen


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Re: GETMAIN/FREEMAIN and virtual storage backing up

2007-10-09 Thread Edward Jaffe

Binyamin Dissen wrote:

On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 07:39:49 -0300 Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:No, a PIC 0010 or 0011, unless there's something new in 64-bit mode. 0C4
:is an overloaded ABEND code that can mean any of PIC 4, 10 or 11 in an
:unexpected context.

Now there is region 1st, 2nd  3rd (39-3B) as well.
  


But not for storage acquired via GETMAIN or STORAGE OBTAIN. Only storage 
acquired via IARV64 is subject to region table exceptions.


--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
Los Angeles, CA 90045
310-338-0400 x318
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Re: Dumping SMF directly to TAPE

2007-10-09 Thread Kelman, Tom
 On October 7,2007 12:14 AM George Dranes wrote:
 
 Actually our SMF dump job dumps to a daily tape which in the next step
is
 mod on to a weekly tape using IEBGENER (actually ICEGENER in our
case).
 This weekly tape is then concatenated to a monthly tape once a week.
I
 keep multiple generations of the daily and weekly files so I can
easily
 rebuild if
 needed.  Does this sound ok?
 
Here I've set up the SMF rollup system to dump to a DASD dataset from
the MAN files as they fill up during the day.  Then just after midnight
the automated ops system issues a final I SMF command.  The dump
datasets are then rolled up to daily dataset on virtual tape.  After the
daily run on Sunday morning the dailies are rolled up to weekly dataset
on physical tape.  We don't roll up to monthly datasets but keep 106 (2
years) of weekly generations.  We use IFASMFDP to do our copying from
dump to daily to weekly.  I've also written a little SAS routine to keep
the input generations in ascending numeric order.  The first step of the
roll up job creates an IDCAMS LISTCAT listing of the input which is read
by the SAS program that creates the input DD statements.  I've also
split the daily and weekly SMF records into multiple groups based on how
we process - one tape has CICS (SMF 110), another has DB2 (SMF 100-102),
another has WLC required records (SMF 30, 70-79, and 89), and the last
one has everything else. 




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Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?

2007-10-09 Thread Anton Britz
Allan,

Please can you explain to your audience how long have you been around and 
how long have you been workling with Adabas, IMS and DB2 ?

Please define also what type of work have you been doing with all these 
Database software packages, if you can still remember..

Why ?  In the USA there is lots of people that claim that they are experts.. 
specially if they work in a cage for a big company.

Anton

On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:11:23 -0500, Staller, Allan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

snip
Subject: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?
I spoke few days ago with an ADABAS specialist that claimed that ADABAS
is
much faster and has low overhead compared to IMS and DB2. Is this true?
/snip

As with most things in this business, it depends.

The first question to ask is What source are you citing to support your
claim? Depending on the configuration and tuning options ADABAS may or
may not be faster than DB2. DB2 may or may not have a smaller footprint
than ADABAS.

Because IMS uses an entirely different technique to access data, it
*most likely* is somewhat faster than either IMS or DB2.

In order to obtain this speed, the flexibility of using SQL is
sacrificed.
(Actually it is the other way around IMS preceded DB2/ADABAS by several
years.

The relative speed that is important is the one for *YOUR* workload.
Anything else is meaningless noise. Thoroughly research the *features*
important to you and go with the product that provides the best feature
to price ratio for you.

HTH,

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Re: DFHSM :ARC0560E - Message Clarity

2007-10-09 Thread Adams, Rick
Either adding space to ML1 or migrating some data off to ML2 would have
cleared the issue.  In either case you needed to release migration to
start the migration process again!

ThanksRick

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of willie bunter
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 8:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: DFHSM :ARC0560E - Message Clarity

No, I didn't.  I didn't see the message that the MIGRATION was held.  I
will take note of this to add to my procedures.  Would you know if there
is something else I should have done besides adding the disks?  I
thought of doing a MIGRATE1 to MIGRATE2.  Would that have been a good
move?

Adams, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Did you release migration
after you added the ML1 volume? The message
MIGRATION LIMITED means that it held migration.

ThanksRick

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of willie bunter
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 7:58 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: DFHSM :ARC0560E - Message Clarity

Good Day To All,

I was investigatin problem ARC0521I - the PRIMARY SPACE MANAGEMENT
ended due to a ARC0521I COMPLETION, RESOURCES NOT AVAILABLE. I found
the message ARC0560E MIGRATION LIMITED: NO MIGRATION LEVEL 1 SPACE
AVAILABLE, followed by subsequent messages :
ARC0559I SPACE MANAGEMENT OF PROM116 WILL NOT TARGET 708 
ARC0559I (CONT.) MIGRATION LEVEL 1 UNTIL THE REQUESTED VOLUME TYPE I
ARC0559I (CONT.) MADE AVAILABLE 

I checked the message ARC0560E explanation but it didn't tell me much
only to say that the there was a lack of available space for LEVEL 1.
I added a level 1 volume but the problem didn't clear. I added another
one still the problem persisted. Finally, I shutdown the STC and
brought it up again. For some reason the problem was fixed. However,
I am at a loss as to why this happened. Were my actions correct? Is
there something else that I should have tried? Please let me know.

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Re: IBMLink is UP - just kidding

2007-10-09 Thread Kelman, Tom
 
 On 5 Oct 2007 11:39:50 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kelman, Tom)
 wrote:
 
 Just try Indiana.  At least Arizona can agree on how to set their
clocks
 state wide.  Indiana can't even do that.  Some of the state goes to
 Daylight Saving Time and some doesn't.


 On 5 Oct 2007 1:57 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
 
 I thought I read that Indiana finally gave in.And I believe the
 big Navaho reservation is different from the rest of Arizona.
 
Well, I did look it up and you are right.  The Navaho reservation does
observe Daylight Saving Time, the rest of Arizona doesn't.  Also, now
all of Indiana does observe it.  That state is just divided between
Eastern Time and Central Time, but there are other states split between
time zones.  Other states/territories of the USA that don't observe DST
are Hawaii, Puerto Rico, The Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Guam.
Just a little trivia for this Tuesday that's a Monday for me since banks
got the day off yesterday for Columbus Day. :)  




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Re: Enquiry!

2007-10-09 Thread Howard Brazee
On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 08:31:42 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you
wrote:

May I know the server name for thisgroup???


This group is a copy of a list server.   If you are wanting to
participate, subscribing would make sure any messages you sent get
read by everybody.

I have my participation set to not send me messages as e-mail, so I
can read them from the newsgroup - but I try to send my messages to
the list server.

So the two locations (e-mail and Usenet) are different things - what
are you actually looking to do?

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Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?

2007-10-09 Thread Staller, Allan
snip
Please can you explain to your audience how long have you been around
and 
how long have you been workling with Adabas, IMS and DB2 ?
/snip

I have been a MVS systems programmer for about 35 years. I have worked
with IMS and DB2 for about 5 years. I have never worked with ADABAS.
I have no aversion or affinity (currently) to any of the products above.
None are in my current environment.

IMS is a hierarchal database, and thus uses vastly different data
storage/retrieval paradigms when compared to ADABAS or DB2. For single
record update/retrieval (e.g. a banking deposit, account inquiry) IMS
may be very much faster than ADABAS/DB2. For a report type application,
(e.g. show all accounts with activity yesterday) ADABAS/DB2 may very
well be faster that IMS. *IT DEPENDS*.

My reply intent is to say the only right answer is the one that works
for you. In other words caveat emptor. 

I did not mean to disparage the expert in your OP. I do not know if
the expert in the OP was a sales engineer, one of your co-workers, or a
true expert in ADABAS. Regardless s/he should be able to produce
supporting documentation to back up his/her claim. (e.g. Transactions
rates supported, resources consumed, )

As with most things in this business, *IT DEPENDS*. Anytime a blanket
statement such as X is faster (or better) than Y, objective evidence is
required before a decision is made on that basis alone. This does not
preclude the fact that X may be still be chosen over Y, but the decision
should be based on objective evidence (e.g. Benchmarks, publications by
neutral parties, etc.), not on unsupported claims of superiority.

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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Rick Fochtman

--snip---
Dude... check out the GTRACE macro, http://preview.tinyurl.com/2wfyrk 
GTRACE is the GTF interface and even though it is documented in the Auth 
guides, the MC interface does not require authorization AT ALL.


The down side is that all other aspects of GTF require some local 
authority, to start GTF traces, and to get access to the trace dataset 
and/or IPCS to process the output. In a lot of places those are 
practically impossible for application people to get, but that's a site 
choice. If you had a gnarly problem you might be allowed access.


But if you just want first class real time debugging and you don't have 
your own VM sandbox... Dave Cole's XDC is the only game in town.

unsnip---
I'm very familiar with GTRACE, having used it, and imbedded it within 
various SMF exits that I've written and installed. But I don't believe 
that a user (That's a four-letter word, I know.) should have to have the 
authority to use such tools to debug what is essentially an application 
program. I've looked at XDC, but it doesn't seem to lend itself easily 
to imbedding in an application that might very well be a OEM Software 
Product. It appears to be a great debugging tool, but I question the 
advisability of imbedding it in a fee-based product.


If I execute a GTRACE macro in a product and GTF isn't active, it 
returnes directly to the code that executed it. I'd like to see a way to 
redirect it to my code, with a parm list similar (not necessarily 
exactly the same, but along the lines) to a SPIE/ESPIE exit, where I can 
examine the instruction and the code immediately after it and from that 
determine what storage areas may need to be displayed, etc.


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Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?

2007-10-09 Thread Anton Britz
Hi,

Summarized :

a) So you never worked with ADABAS in your life
b) You only worked with IMS and DB2 for 5 years... maybe as a user

but you are talking about :

a) SQL 
b) Database access methods
c) Which Database people should be using

Summarized :

Are you working for the 'White house maybe  because everybody there is also 
experts but the funny part ?  your post your findings to an IBM technical 
list...

Tell me , what should I invest my money in ? I need investment advice too..

Anton


On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:22:57 -0500, Staller, Allan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

snip
Please can you explain to your audience how long have you been around
and
how long have you been workling with Adabas, IMS and DB2 ?
/snip

I have been a MVS systems programmer for about 35 years. I have worked
with IMS and DB2 for about 5 years. I have never worked with ADABAS.
I have no aversion or affinity (currently) to any of the products above.
None are in my current environment.


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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Binyamin Dissen
On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:26:51 -0500 Rick Fochtman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

::I write 
::almost all my code in Assembler and the lack of debugging tools that I 
::can imbed into a product is one of my pet peeves.

:How would you like to imbed it?

:---unsnip-
:I don't really care whether it's via SPIE/ESPIE, STAE/ESTAE, or some PC 
:mechanism, as long as it's a reasonably fast mechanism. I suggested a 
:fast path via SPIE/ESPIE simply because I figure that a PC interrupt 
:should be fairly easy to trap through the SPIE/ESPIE mechanism in 
:Program Interrupt FLIH. It should NOT be a mechanism that requires 
:program authorization via the classic mechanism, thus available to the 
:general case application programmer. Even using the TRAP instructions 
:wouild be acceptable, if there's a mechanism to examine registers and/or 
:inline parameter lists and make approproate return adjustments to bypass it.

:--snip---
:How would you expect that the end user would enable it?
:unsnip---
:A PARM field, a control statement, or the inclusion of a special DD 
:statement; to me, any one of these would be acceptable. Obviously, each 
:has advantages and drawbacks but these can be taken into consideration 
:during the code development/generation process.

:I'm currently working on a new version of the ARCHIVER (CBT File 147) 
:and because of the nature of the beast, I can't always visualze all 
:the possibilities that might lead to abends. But if someone is using it 
:and encounters a problem, being able to have him turn on a trace/debug 
:mechanism and recreate the problem would be of great advantage in 
:solving problems and improving the product. 

:I'm also working on tools for RACF reporting which I hope to market for 
:a very modest fee, and tools that help me debug newly-encountered 
:conditions would be of inestimable value, to me and to my prospective 
:customers. And let's face it, security is going to be a major concern in 
:computing for the foreseeable future, both in maintenance and auditing. 
:In my experience, (which I grant freely is NOT all-encompassing,) 
:reporting and auditing tools in this area are not optimal, to say the 
:least. (I remind the list of a previous post concerning a RACF auditor, 
:unnamed, who bought me a number of steak lunches, because of his lack of 
:experience and IMHO adequate training. Not his fault, but rather a 
:reflection of industry's attidute toward security at the time.)

So why doesn't the very straightforward solution of a DEBUG parm and calls to
debug logic in the code work? You can have multiple debug flags (routine entry
exit, record read, etc.).

--
Binyamin Dissen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar  Grill - Israel


Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Rick Fochtman

-snip

:I write 
:almost all my code in Assembler and the lack of debugging tools that I 
:can imbed into a product is one of my pet peeves.


How would you like to imbed it?
 


---unsnip-
I don't really care whether it's via SPIE/ESPIE, STAE/ESTAE, or some PC 
mechanism, as long as it's a reasonably fast mechanism. I suggested a 
fast path via SPIE/ESPIE simply because I figure that a PC interrupt 
should be fairly easy to trap through the SPIE/ESPIE mechanism in 
Program Interrupt FLIH. It should NOT be a mechanism that requires 
program authorization via the classic mechanism, thus available to the 
general case application programmer. Even using the TRAP instructions 
wouild be acceptable, if there's a mechanism to examine registers and/or 
inline parameter lists and make approproate return adjustments to bypass it.


--snip---
How would you expect that the end user would enable it?
unsnip---
A PARM field, a control statement, or the inclusion of a special DD 
statement; to me, any one of these would be acceptable. Obviously, each 
has advantages and drawbacks but these can be taken into consideration 
during the code development/generation process.


I'm currently working on a new version of the ARCHIVER (CBT File 147) 
and because of the nature of the beast, I can't always visualze all 
the possibilities that might lead to abends. But if someone is using it 
and encounters a problem, being able to have him turn on a trace/debug 
mechanism and recreate the problem would be of great advantage in 
solving problems and improving the product. 

I'm also working on tools for RACF reporting which I hope to market for 
a very modest fee, and tools that help me debug newly-encountered 
conditions would be of inestimable value, to me and to my prospective 
customers. And let's face it, security is going to be a major concern in 
computing for the foreseeable future, both in maintenance and auditing. 
In my experience, (which I grant freely is NOT all-encompassing,) 
reporting and auditing tools in this area are not optimal, to say the 
least. (I remind the list of a previous post concerning a RACF auditor, 
unnamed, who bought me a number of steak lunches, because of his lack of 
experience and IMHO adequate training. Not his fault, but rather a 
reflection of industry's attidute toward security at the time.)


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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread David Cole

At 10/9/2007 12:36 PM, Rick Fochtman wrote:

[snip]
But I don't believe that a user (That's a four-letter word, I know.) 
should have to ...


[snip]
I've looked at XDC, but it doesn't seem to lend itself easily to 
imbedding in an application that might very well be a OEM Software 
Product. It appears to be a great debugging tool, but I question 
the advisability of imbedding it in a fee-based product.


Dude! Here's another four letter word: HOOK!

z/XDC allows you, at execution time, to dynamically insert a hook 
into live code that creates a debugging session on the fly! There is 
no need to modify product code (either source or object) if you don't 
want to...


Talk to Bob. Take one of his classes. He will show you how to do it...



Dave Cole  REPLY TO: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cole Software  WEB PAGE: http://www.colesoft.com
736 Fox Hollow RoadVOICE:540-456-8536
Afton, VA 22920FAX:  540-456-6658

Bob Shimizu
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
800-XDC-5150

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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Binyamin Dissen
On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 13:13:57 -0400 David Cole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

:At 10/9/2007 12:36 PM, Rick Fochtman wrote:
:[snip]
:But I don't believe that a user (That's a four-letter word, I know.) 
:should have to ...

:[snip]
:I've looked at XDC, but it doesn't seem to lend itself easily to 
:imbedding in an application that might very well be a OEM Software 
:Product. It appears to be a great debugging tool, but I question 
:the advisability of imbedding it in a fee-based product.

:Dude! Here's another four letter word: HOOK!

:z/XDC allows you, at execution time, to dynamically insert a hook 
:into live code that creates a debugging session on the fly! There is 
:no need to modify product code (either source or object) if you don't 
:want to...

:Talk to Bob. Take one of his classes. He will show you how to do it...

I don't think that he can count on his end-users having an XDC license.

Do you provide a license where he can supply some run-time material for his
clients?

--
Binyamin Dissen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar  Grill - Israel


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you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread David Cole

At 10/9/2007 01:19 PM, Binyamin Dissen wrote:

I don't think that he can count on his end-users having an XDC license.

Do you provide a license where he can supply some run-time material for his
clients?


We can do that. Talk to Bob.

Dave Cole  REPLY TO: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?

2007-10-09 Thread Thompson, Steve
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Anton Britz
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:37 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?

Hi,

Summarized :

a) So you never worked with ADABAS in your life
b) You only worked with IMS and DB2 for 5 years... maybe as a user

but you are talking about :

a) SQL
b) Database access methods
c) Which Database people should be using

Summarized :

Are you working for the 'White house maybe  because everybody there is
also experts but the funny part ?  your post your findings to an
IBM technical list...

Tell me , what should I invest my money in ? I need investment advice
too..

SNIP

PLUNK!

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Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?

2007-10-09 Thread Mike Bell
I supported ADABAS for 2 years about 20 years ago.  What I remember was the
SVC that modified itself and still running with 24 bit addressability.
Don't get me wrong - I could write amazing programs in Natural in just a
couple of hours but the other restrictions were painfull.  Went on an
interview for a DB2 job and discovered they still had ADABAS - asked how
they managed it - basically they created a new ADABAS collection for every
application area that wanted it. You have to backup the entire database -
can't select one application and create a backup point.

Started working as IMS DBA with 1.1.5 - I think - been applications, system
DBA and sysprog. Never did past path but all combinations of HDAM, HIDAM,
SHISAM, etc It is very difficult to beat the performance of a properly
designed HDAM application unless the users require a half dozen secondary
indexes. Problem was the 2G/4G dataset limit - IBM didn't release
partitioned database until V9.  Yes, you could move segments to a separate
dataset (max of 10) but it created performance problems as often as solving
them. People did all kinds of unusual design work to support more than 4G of
data.  One place had a dozen PCB's that were selected by application based
on key range.

first supported DB2 as sysprog on 1.2. My mistake of being in the IMS group
and saying it isn't that hard - just another database -setup 1,2,3 write a
userid exit and let the applications groups go. SQL is different. It
requires a different type of design.  I think it is harder to build a  good
SQL design than IMS because you have so many choices and the SQL hides the
performance impact of those choices.The ability to use big bufferpools can
also hide bad design.  It can still meet response time goals but use more
resources than it should. The other part is that DB2 started with a 64G
limit and has expanded that multiple times.

ADABAS does use less memory and disk space than DB2 but it doesn't scale to
really large applications the way DB2 does and it doesn't let you keep the
database up while some portion of the database is having utilities run.

Mike


On 10/7/07, Itschak Mugzach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I spoke few days ago with an ADABAS specialist that claimed that ADABAS is
 much faster and has low overhead compared to IMS and DB2. Is this true?

 Itschak

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-- 
Mike

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Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?

2007-10-09 Thread CICS Guy
Thank goodness our moral compass is still around...
 
-Original Message-From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anton BritzSent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 12:37 PMTo: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?
 
Hi,
 
Summarized :
 
a) So you never worked with ADABAS in your life
b) You only worked with IMS and DB2 for 5 years... maybe as a user
 
but you are talking about :
 
a) SQL 
b) Database access methods
c) Which Database people should be using
 
Summarized :
 
Are you working for the 'White house maybe  because everybody there is also 
experts but the funny part ?  your post your findings to an IBM technical 
list...
 
Tell me , what should I invest my money in ? I need investment advice too..
 
Anton
 

-Original Message-From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anton BritzSent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 12:37 PMTo: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?
 
Hi,
 
Summarized :
 
a) So you never worked with ADABAS in your life
b) You only worked with IMS and DB2 for 5 years... maybe as a user
 
but you are talking about :
 
a) SQL 
b) Database access methods
c) Which Database people should be using
 
Summarized :
 
Are you working for the 'White house maybe  because everybody there is also 
experts but the funny part ?  your post your findings to an IBM technical 
list...
 
Tell me , what should I invest my money in ? I need investment advice too..
 
Anton
 
_
Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare!
http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews
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Re: About CA-Allocate and High Water Mark postings

2007-10-09 Thread Tony
Duane,

Snip
First, I work for DTS but the important difference between products that
reduce out of space conditions is when is the data set selected to be a
candidate for recovery.
Snip

CA-Allocate works the same way as Stop X37 and SRS. It intercepts the X37.

I worked with the CA-Allocate for 10 years. You can increase/decrease
primary or secondary whenever a new extent is obtained and add volumes one
by one at EOV. All the accounting info, access method including EXCP and
lots of other attributes are all available via variables so you can decide
if the allocation can be changed. The product is also aware of well known
products and prevents changes where these are not supported.


Tony.


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.5/1058 - Release Date: 08/10/2007
16:54
 

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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Rick Fochtman

snip--
So why doesn't the very straightforward solution of a DEBUG parm and 
calls to debug logic in the code work? You can have multiple debug flags 
(routine entry exit, record read, etc.).

--unsnip---
In many, probably most, cases, that will work just fine; certainly for 
ARCHIVER or my RACF report goodies. I was hoping to find/develop a more 
elegant mechanism that would be less dependant on imbedded code, 
mainly because of size and re-entranterability considerations. I had 
even considered the use of S-Cons to keep parm lists short! My aim 
was/is a generalized mechanism to dump registers and selected storage 
areas at specific points in the code, like parm flags, storage buffers, 
selected control blocks etc. A single SPIE/ESPIE/STAE/ESTAE parm list 
and a single exit routine might satisfy all these needs, whereas a CALL 
to another routine would (PROBABLY) destroy registers 14 and 15, and 
possibly 0 and 1. At one time, I even considered using SDUMP's and a 
special processor for AMDPRDMP!


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Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?

2007-10-09 Thread Anthony Saul Babonas
Did I stumble into a dark closet and find myself trapped in a job interview?


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of CICS Guy
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 1:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?

Thank goodness our moral compass is still around...
 
-Original Message-From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anton BritzSent: Tuesday, October
09, 2007 12:37 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2
Who is faster?
 
Hi,
 
Summarized :
 
a) So you never worked with ADABAS in your life
b) You only worked with IMS and DB2 for 5 years... maybe as a user
 
but you are talking about :
 
a) SQL
b) Database access methods
c) Which Database people should be using
 
Summarized :
 
Are you working for the 'White house maybe  because everybody there is also
experts but the funny part ?  your post your findings to an IBM
technical list...
 
Tell me , what should I invest my money in ? I need investment advice too..
 
Anton
 

-Original Message-From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anton BritzSent: Tuesday, October
09, 2007 12:37 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2
Who is faster?
 
Hi,
 
Summarized :
 
a) So you never worked with ADABAS in your life
b) You only worked with IMS and DB2 for 5 years... maybe as a user
 
but you are talking about :
 
a) SQL
b) Database access methods
c) Which Database people should be using
 
Summarized :
 
Are you working for the 'White house maybe  because everybody there is also
experts but the funny part ?  your post your findings to an IBM
technical list...
 
Tell me , what should I invest my money in ? I need investment advice too..
 
Anton
 
_
Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare!
http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailn
ews
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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Ed Gould

On Oct 9, 2007, at 12:13 PM, David Cole wrote:


At 10/9/2007 12:36 PM, Rick Fochtman wrote:

[snip]
But I don't believe that a user (That's a four-letter word, I  
know.) should have to ...


[snip]
I've looked at XDC, but it doesn't seem to lend itself easily to  
imbedding in an application that might very well be a OEM  
Software Product. It appears to be a great debugging tool, but I  
question the advisability of imbedding it in a fee-based product.


Dude! Here's another four letter word: HOOK!

z/XDC allows you, at execution time, to dynamically insert a hook  
into live code that creates a debugging session on the fly! There  
is no need to modify product code (either source or object) if you  
don't want to...


Talk to Bob. Take one of his classes. He will show you how to do it...



Not speaking for Rick, but in agreement with him. As he mentioned the  
viability of putting into production a $$ tool . I have seen various  
programmers try to put various debugging tools into production and  
have seen it slip by (into production once or twice) don't go there.  
Being called (as a sysprog) at xx AM because the tool doesn't work or  
its causing production stoppage is not fun and it gets really nasty  
when it comes to politics at someone else on the list says BTDTGTS .  
IF you let the tool run loose heaven help you if the tool expires at  
xx AM and trying to get a hold of the vendor that does 9-5 in another  
time zone or even worse in on the other side of the pond (Atlantic or  
Pacific). NO THANKS and another BTDTGS.


Ed

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Re: Zos 1.7

2007-10-09 Thread Carroll, William
Thanks to all who replied.

It turned out to be a grs problem


Thank You... 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Skip Robinson
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 3:38 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Zos 1.7

I'm having trouble tying this 'problem' to a specific z/OS level, but we
discovered in early 2005 that one system in the enterprise was seeing hugely
elongated execution times for some catalog intensive jobs. Like 10 - 20
longer (!) on a massively configured production LPAR vs. even a puny little
sandbox. Diagnostic data--sorry I don't remember the mechanism--point to
GRS.

The one obvious difference was that the problem system was the only full
parallel sysplex *not* using GRS star. This system had been sysplexed some
time earlier in order to debug some DB2 issues, but the 'other' member was
not being IPLed on a regular basis. In other words, a single parallel
sysplex capable system running in practice by itself in GRS ring mode.
Taking the duh! approach, we converted the problem system/sysplex to GRS
star. The GRS delays disappeared immediately, making the system look just
like all the rest.

Just another thing to look at.

.
.
JO.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
626-302-7535 Office
323-715-0595 Mobile
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


   
 Carroll, 
 William  
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To 
 NSURANCE.COM IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
 Sent by: IBM   cc 
 Mainframe 
 Discussion List   Subject 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re: Zos 1.7 
 .EDU 
   
   
 10/08/2007 12:14  
 PM
   
   
 Please respond to 
   IBM Mainframe   
  Discussion List  
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   .EDU   
   
   




I am 99% sure its within dfsms..  On a catalog report all numbers Across the
board are extremely higher..especially the mvs and bcs allocate.



Bill

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of ITURIEL DO NASCIMENTO NETO
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 3:12 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: RES: Zos 1.7

Are you sure is it a catalog problem ?
What is your main delay reported by RMF ?


Atenciosamente / Regards / Saludos

Ituriel do Nascimento Neto
Banco Bradesco S/A
4254/DPCD Alphaville
Engenharia de Software - Sistemas Operacionais Mainframes

Tel: 55 11 4197-2021 Fax: 55 11 4197-2814


-Mensagem original-
De: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Em nome de
Carroll, William Enviada em: segunda-feira, 8 de outubro de 2007 15:01
Para: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Assunto: Zos 1.7

We converted to 1.7 over the weekend, mostly good, but a couple of really
weird problems.  Job used to execute in 4 minutes now Takes 20...Only that
one job.  A couple of jobs running snap, are taking a bit longer as well.
Is everybody running with the Catalog auto tune on?  I am just grabbing at
straws.  Any insight or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


Thank You

Bill Carroll

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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Edward Jaffe

Ed Gould wrote:
Not speaking for Rick, but in agreement with him. As he mentioned the 
viability of putting into production a $$ tool . I have seen various 
programmers try to put various debugging tools into production and 
have seen it slip by (into production once or twice) don't go there. 
Being called (as a sysprog) at xx AM because the tool doesn't work or 
its causing production stoppage is not fun and it gets really nasty 
when it comes to politics at someone else on the list says BTDTGTS . 
IF you let the tool run loose heaven help you if the tool expires at 
xx AM and trying to get a hold of the vendor that does 9-5 in another 
time zone or even worse in on the other side of the pond (Atlantic or 
Pacific). NO THANKS and another BTDTGS.


What Dave was trying to say was that z/XDC is not linked with or 
installed with your code at all. The risks you allude to don't exist.


When you decide you want to debug a program, you can HOOK it on the fly 
(even if it hasn't been LOADed yet). The debugger dynamically overlays 
part of your program with a sequence of instructions that allows it to 
gain control and pause your program. After it gets control, it restores 
the instructions that were there to begin with. Then, you can step 
through your program instruction-by-instruction and, if you keep your 
ADATA around for the module being debugged, you can even use full 
source-level debugging (like stepping through an assembler source 
listing). You can change registers on the fly, change data on the fly, 
change instructions on the fly, take branches, don't take them, jump 
anywhere in the code ... you name it!


--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
Los Angeles, CA 90045
310-338-0400 x318
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread David Cole

At 10/9/2007 03:06 PM, Edward Jaffe wrote:
What Dave was trying to say was that z/XDC is not linked with or 
installed with your code at all. The risks you allude to don't exist.


When you decide you want to debug a program, you can HOOK it on the 
fly (even if it hasn't been LOADed yet). The debugger dynamically 
overlays part of your program with a sequence of instructions that 
allows it to gain control and pause your program. After it gets 
control, it restores the instructions that were there to begin with. 
Then, you can step through your program instruction-by-instruction 
and, if you keep your ADATA around for the module being debugged, 
you can even use full source-level debugging (like stepping through 
an assembler source listing). You can change registers on the fly, 
change data on the fly, change instructions on the fly, take 
branches, don't take them, jump anywhere in the code ... you name it!


Well said, Ed. I couldn't have said it better myself. (In fact I 
didn't say it nearly as well.)


Thanks,

Dave Cole  REPLY TO: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cole Software  WEB PAGE: http://www.colesoft.com
736 Fox Hollow RoadVOICE:540-456-8536
Afton, VA 22920FAX:  540-456-6658

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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread David Cole

At 10/9/2007 02:53 PM, Ed Gould wrote:
Not speaking for Rick, but in agreement with him. As he mentioned 
the viability of putting into production a $$ tool . I have seen 
various programmers try to put various debugging tools into 
production and have seen it slip by (into production once or twice) 
don't go there. Being called (as a sysprog) at xx AM because the 
tool doesn't work or its causing production stoppage is not fun and 
it gets really nasty when it comes to politics at someone else on 
the list says BTDTGTS . IF you let the tool run loose heaven help 
you if the tool expires at xx AM and trying to get a hold of the 
vendor that does 9-5 in another time zone or even worse in on the 
other side of the pond (Atlantic or Pacific). NO THANKS and another BTDTGS.


Ed


Hi Ed,

Perhaps I've been reading things too hurriedly. Maybe I missed the 
thrust of Rick's comment.


What you are concerned about is the possibility of letting a 
distribution copy of a product get out the door with a debugging 
interface still activated. That, of course, can lead to unhappy 
situations at customer sites should the debugging interface get 
executed. I agree. That sort of thing must never be allowed to happen.


But to my mind, avoiding such a situation is very easy: Just make the 
debugging interface fail-safe. Code it so as to require some 
additional action of environmental characteristic without which the 
interface simply does nothing, NOPs as if it did not exist. And there 
are any number of ways to do that:
One way is to code a closed permanent branch around the interface 
activation code. Then a manual zap by the developer would be 
required, without which the code could never be executed.
Another might be to require the presence of a secret keyword ddname, 
example //DEBUGME DD DUMMY. Then a simple TIOT scan would be all that 
was needed for the debugging interface to know whether it should 
allow debugging or just step aside.
Another might be to check the environment for your own computer's 
local SYSPLEX name, SMF name, CPU id/serial#, TSO userid, RACF 
ownerid, ... whatever. Absent the right value, the debugging 
interface would not permit debugging.
I really don't see that there is a serious problem here. (Or am I 
still missing the point?)




Dave Cole  REPLY TO: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cole Software  WEB PAGE: http://www.colesoft.com
736 Fox Hollow RoadVOICE:540-456-8536
Afton, VA 22920FAX:  540-456-6658

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Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?

2007-10-09 Thread Anton Britz
Hi,

Come on Cics guy...

There is a lot of us reading most of this junk on IBM-MAIN and :

a) Asking a question
b) Making a statement on what you really know well 

is acceptably to most... 

but how big is your World if you make a signon called Cics Guy and then want 
to talk about morality ?

Oh, I get it.. you do not like me referring to the people you voted for.

Anton Britz  ( this is my real name )

On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:30:05 -0400, CICS Guy [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

Thank goodness our moral compass is still around...

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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Thompson, Steve
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Cole
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:20 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SLIP sliding away

SNIP
I really don't see that there is a serious problem here. (Or am I still
missing the point?)

SNIP

Because there isn't one. Take it from someone who HAS used (and still
does) XDC. 

I am not allowed (because of Non-Disclosure Agreements for starters) to
divulge what ISV products are developed (or were) and maintained using
XDC. AND are shipped with XDC hooks embedded so that IFF the customer
site has XDC, it can be debugged remotely.

IT WORKS. And, IFF you have the right authorization, you can debug your
code right into SCP code. 

Take the class from Bob. You will be very glad you did. And trust me, it
is a better tool than TSO TEST, TEST AUTH or CP's AD STOP, and FAR
better than SLIP/IPCS.

Regards,
Steve Thompson

-- Opinions expressed are strictly my own. --


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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Ed Gould

On Oct 9, 2007, at 2:06 PM, Edward Jaffe wrote:


Ed Gould wrote:
Not speaking for Rick, but in agreement with him. As he mentioned  
the viability of putting into production a $$ tool . I have seen  
various programmers try to put various debugging tools into  
production and have seen it slip by (into production once or  
twice) don't go there. Being called (as a sysprog) at xx AM  
because the tool doesn't work or its causing production stoppage  
is not fun and it gets really nasty when it comes to politics at  
someone else on the list says BTDTGTS . IF you let the tool run  
loose heaven help you if the tool expires at xx AM and trying to  
get a hold of the vendor that does 9-5 in another time zone or  
even worse in on the other side of the pond (Atlantic or Pacific).  
NO THANKS and another BTDTGS.


What Dave was trying to say was that z/XDC is not linked with or  
installed with your code at all. The risks you allude to don't exist.


When you decide you want to debug a program, you can HOOK it on the  
fly (even if it hasn't been LOADed yet). The debugger dynamically  
overlays part of your program with a sequence of instructions that  
allows it to gain control and pause your program. After it gets  
control, it restores the instructions that were there to begin  
with. Then, you can step through your program instruction-by- 
instruction and, if you keep your ADATA around for the module being  
debugged, you can even use full source-level debugging (like  
stepping through an assembler source listing). You can change  
registers on the fly, change data on the fly, change instructions  
on the fly, take branches, don't take them, jump anywhere in the  
code ... you name it!





Ed,

In this case maybe but I have seen this happen with other products (3  
come to mind) . One was dynamic but it depended on other software in  
CICS to get it to work. The  CICS (batch or CICS)  debugger was  
very MVS release dependent, often the issues did not show up until  
the system was heavily loaded. I am extremely suspicious of any  
debugger that makes claims. I have heard lots of good stuff about the  
product, but until I have witnessed it personally I will reserve  
judgement.


Ed

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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Binyamin Dissen
On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 13:36:41 -0500 Rick Fochtman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

:snip--
:So why doesn't the very straightforward solution of a DEBUG parm and 
:calls to debug logic in the code work? You can have multiple debug flags 
:(routine entry exit, record read, etc.).
:--unsnip---
:In many, probably most, cases, that will work just fine; certainly for 
:ARCHIVER or my RACF report goodies. I was hoping to find/develop a more 
:elegant mechanism that would be less dependant on imbedded code, 
:mainly because of size and re-entranterability considerations. I had 
:even considered the use of S-Cons to keep parm lists short! My aim 
:was/is a generalized mechanism to dump registers and selected storage 
:areas at specific points in the code, like parm flags, storage buffers, 
:selected control blocks etc. A single SPIE/ESPIE/STAE/ESTAE parm list 
:and a single exit routine might satisfy all these needs, whereas a CALL 
:to another routine would (PROBABLY) destroy registers 14 and 15, and 
:possibly 0 and 1. At one time, I even considered using SDUMP's and a 
:special processor for AMDPRDMP!

If it is problem state code, you can have the end user run it in the
background TMP under TSO TEST with a script.

   TEST 'program' 'parameters'
   AT location (L whatever;GO) {defer}
 .
 .
   GO
   L 15R
   END

and SYSTSPRT will have the debug output.

--
Binyamin Dissen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Director, Dissen Software, Bar  Grill - Israel


Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

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Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?

2007-10-09 Thread Anton Britz
Hi,

I am 100% convinced, the computer world in the USA is like another Iraq 
story...

Here we have another person that worked with Adabas 20 years a'go and he 
wants to compare Databases.

You can be succesful in the USA ... hang in there.. stay the course.

Anton Britz


7 13:23:49 -0500, Mike Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I supported ADABAS for 2 years about 20 years ago.  What I remember was 
the

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Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?

2007-10-09 Thread Jones, Kelly (Indust, PTL)
Hello Mike,

Most of the restrictions in the classes you mentioned disappeared from
ADABAS years ago.  In our shop we yo-yo the ADABAS databases weekly -
though I know many shops that yo-yo the database only when an IPL is
required.  We run backups every day - this can be done on only those
blocks that have changed, only certain files, while in use ...
Production changes can be implemented on the fly - new fields, new
indexes ... can be made while the file being modified is in use.

ADABAS fully supports a sysplex and can actually scale quite well.  I
have practically no DB2 or IMS experience so am not able to compare.

An optional optimizing compiler can be purchased for Natural.  I've seen
the code it generates (it's good) and benchmarked it against optimized
COBOL - Natural won every test, from highly computational, to highly i/o
bound.  I don't know what troubles you were having but things have
changed a lot.

ADABAS does not support SQL but an interface can be purchased from
Software AG or a couple other vendors.

Best Regards

Kelly Jones
Penske Logistics


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Bell
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?

I supported ADABAS for 2 years about 20 years ago.  What I remember was
the SVC that modified itself and still running with 24 bit
addressability.
Don't get me wrong - I could write amazing programs in Natural in just a
couple of hours but the other restrictions were painfull.  Went on an
interview for a DB2 job and discovered they still had ADABAS - asked how
they managed it - basically they created a new ADABAS collection for
every application area that wanted it. You have to backup the entire
database - can't select one application and create a backup point.

Started working as IMS DBA with 1.1.5 - I think - been applications,
system DBA and sysprog. Never did past path but all combinations of
HDAM, HIDAM, SHISAM, etc It is very difficult to beat the performance of
a properly designed HDAM application unless the users require a half
dozen secondary indexes. Problem was the 2G/4G dataset limit - IBM
didn't release partitioned database until V9.  Yes, you could move
segments to a separate dataset (max of 10) but it created performance
problems as often as solving them. People did all kinds of unusual
design work to support more than 4G of data.  One place had a dozen
PCB's that were selected by application based on key range.

first supported DB2 as sysprog on 1.2. My mistake of being in the IMS
group and saying it isn't that hard - just another database -setup 1,2,3
write a userid exit and let the applications groups go. SQL is
different. It requires a different type of design.  I think it is harder
to build a  good SQL design than IMS because you have so many choices
and the SQL hides the performance impact of those choices.The ability to
use big bufferpools can also hide bad design.  It can still meet
response time goals but use more resources than it should. The other
part is that DB2 started with a 64G limit and has expanded that multiple
times.

ADABAS does use less memory and disk space than DB2 but it doesn't scale
to really large applications the way DB2 does and it doesn't let you
keep the database up while some portion of the database is having
utilities run.

Mike


On 10/7/07, Itschak Mugzach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I spoke few days ago with an ADABAS specialist that claimed that 
 ADABAS is much faster and has low overhead compared to IMS and DB2. Is
this true?

 Itschak

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Re: PEND (was: System REXX for z/OS R8 Web ...)

2007-10-09 Thread Schwarz, Barry A
My 2.10 manual says it is optional in a catalogued procedure.  I have
some in the proclib used for started tasks and also in the proclib used
for batch jobs. 

-Original Message-
From: Paul Gilmartin [mailto:snip] 
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 9:44 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: PEND (was: System REXX for z/OS R8 Web ...)

Is PEND tolerated in library PROCs nowadays?  I have always considered
it a PITA and extraordinarily stupid that it isn't (wasn't?).  Was this
changed to accommodate // INCLUDE?

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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Ed Gould

On Oct 9, 2007, at 2:20 PM, David Cole wrote:
-SNIP-



Hi Ed,

Perhaps I've been reading things too hurriedly. Maybe I missed the  
thrust of Rick's comment.


What you are concerned about is the possibility of letting a  
distribution copy of a product get out the door with a debugging  
interface still activated. That, of course, can lead to unhappy  
situations at customer sites should the debugging interface get  
executed. I agree. That sort of thing must never be allowed to happen.


But to my mind, avoiding such a situation is very easy: Just make  
the debugging interface fail-safe. Code it so as to require some  
additional action of environmental characteristic without which the  
interface simply does nothing, NOPs as if it did not exist. And  
there are any number of ways to do that:
One way is to code a closed permanent branch around the interface  
activation code. Then a manual zap by the developer would be  
required, without which the code could never be executed.
Another might be to require the presence of a secret keyword  
ddname, example //DEBUGME DD DUMMY. Then a simple TIOT scan would  
be all that was needed for the debugging interface to know whether  
it should allow debugging or just step aside.
Another might be to check the environment for your own computer's  
local SYSPLEX name, SMF name, CPU id/serial#, TSO userid, RACF  
ownerid, ... whatever. Absent the right value, the debugging  
interface would not permit debugging.
I really don't see that there is a serious problem here. (Or am I  
still missing the point?)





Just a little. Even *IF* you were to only let the debug product work  
in a specific environment (you gave a fair list) the problem comes in  
to play about exceptions. If people (ie programmers) were really  
honest it would not be an issue but programmers have this attitude  
what ever I can get away with I will and point fingers if he can't.  
While I can say its not just programmers its a fair share as  
programmers are bright and they can/do squeeze through any loop hole  
that can be found. BTW after thinking it through I would rather not  
have the dependancies name you mentioned as DR comes into play and  
heaven help you if things don't work EXACTLY as they did in the home  
system. The auditors would be screaming for my neck.


The secret DDNAME does not work unless it changes say every week (or  
so) as people let the cat out of the bag without thinking. A long  
time ago I put a daily changing password in cols 73-80 of the JCL  
card to allow stepcat/jobcat to go through, I would suspect that the  
code is still running to this day (15+ years later).


I have no experience with your code and I was not pointing out any  
issues with your product (just OTHER debugging products).


Ed

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Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?

2007-10-09 Thread Itschak Mugzach
Boys, please relax. 

I wonder why TPC-C tests are only done for the distributed platforms
databases (or their DP versions). Within its members are IBM, Oracle (MF
version) Sybase(the same) and others. Maybe, because TPC heard (too early, I
must say) that the mainframe is dead? 

Itschak 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Jones, Kelly (Indust, PTL)
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 9:29 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?

Hello Mike,

Most of the restrictions in the classes you mentioned disappeared from
ADABAS years ago.  In our shop we yo-yo the ADABAS databases weekly - though
I know many shops that yo-yo the database only when an IPL is required.  We
run backups every day - this can be done on only those blocks that have
changed, only certain files, while in use ...
Production changes can be implemented on the fly - new fields, new indexes
... can be made while the file being modified is in use.

ADABAS fully supports a sysplex and can actually scale quite well.  I have
practically no DB2 or IMS experience so am not able to compare.

An optional optimizing compiler can be purchased for Natural.  I've seen the
code it generates (it's good) and benchmarked it against optimized COBOL -
Natural won every test, from highly computational, to highly i/o bound.  I
don't know what troubles you were having but things have changed a lot.

ADABAS does not support SQL but an interface can be purchased from Software
AG or a couple other vendors.

Best Regards

Kelly Jones
Penske Logistics


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Mike Bell
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ADABAS vs IMS vs DB2 Who is faster?

I supported ADABAS for 2 years about 20 years ago.  What I remember was the
SVC that modified itself and still running with 24 bit addressability.
Don't get me wrong - I could write amazing programs in Natural in just a
couple of hours but the other restrictions were painfull.  Went on an
interview for a DB2 job and discovered they still had ADABAS - asked how
they managed it - basically they created a new ADABAS collection for every
application area that wanted it. You have to backup the entire database -
can't select one application and create a backup point.

Started working as IMS DBA with 1.1.5 - I think - been applications, system
DBA and sysprog. Never did past path but all combinations of HDAM, HIDAM,
SHISAM, etc It is very difficult to beat the performance of a properly
designed HDAM application unless the users require a half dozen secondary
indexes. Problem was the 2G/4G dataset limit - IBM didn't release
partitioned database until V9.  Yes, you could move segments to a separate
dataset (max of 10) but it created performance problems as often as solving
them. People did all kinds of unusual design work to support more than 4G of
data.  One place had a dozen PCB's that were selected by application based
on key range.

first supported DB2 as sysprog on 1.2. My mistake of being in the IMS group
and saying it isn't that hard - just another database -setup 1,2,3 write a
userid exit and let the applications groups go. SQL is different. It
requires a different type of design.  I think it is harder to build a  good
SQL design than IMS because you have so many choices and the SQL hides the
performance impact of those choices.The ability to use big bufferpools can
also hide bad design.  It can still meet response time goals but use more
resources than it should. The other part is that DB2 started with a 64G
limit and has expanded that multiple times.

ADABAS does use less memory and disk space than DB2 but it doesn't scale to
really large applications the way DB2 does and it doesn't let you keep the
database up while some portion of the database is having utilities run.

Mike


On 10/7/07, Itschak Mugzach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I spoke few days ago with an ADABAS specialist that claimed that 
 ADABAS is much faster and has low overhead compared to IMS and DB2. Is
this true?

 Itschak

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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Craddock, Chris
Rick said
 I've looked at XDC, but it doesn't seem to lend itself easily
 to imbedding in an application that might very well be a OEM Software
 Product. It appears to be a great debugging tool, but I question the
 advisability of imbedding it in a fee-based product.

You don't need to embed it to integrate it, even in shipping ISV code.

Dave and others have mentioned the HOOK command - which works exactly as
advertised. But there is another way to integrate XDC with your code.
The only trick you need is to call XDC from your own recovery code,
passing the SDWA in the same manner that your own code got it from RTM. 

When XDC returns control you do whatever the RC indicates. If you got a
4, then Dave has already done everything for you and you just return to
RTM. If you get anything else you go on about your business and handle
recovery. There are a few minutiae about handling END COMPLETELY and
conditionally establishing addressability to XDC - left as an exercise
to the reader.

If you DO that, then your debugging environment is completely baked into
your code, but there is no physical dependence on XDC and no way for fat
fingered programmers to blunder into it. A certain family of products
that I've had a passing association with :-) are -ALL- like that.
Recovery and diagnostic support is always there no matter what. And if
XDC is present and you're properly authorized, you can just use it. If
it's not present, or it is, but you're not authorized for it, you don't
even know its there.

No muss, no fuss. No worries.

CC

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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Edward Jaffe

Craddock, Chris wrote:
[snip]

If you DO that, then your debugging environment is completely baked into
your code, but there is no physical dependence on XDC and no way for fat
fingered programmers to blunder into it. A certain family of products
that I've had a passing association with :-) are -ALL- like that.
Recovery and diagnostic support is always there no matter what. And if
XDC is present and you're properly authorized, you can just use it. If
it's not present, or it is, but you're not authorized for it, you don't
even know its there.

No muss, no fuss. No worries.
  


Yup! I deliberately didn't go there because the typical non-ISV user 
probably won't feel the need to integrate with z/XDC to that extent. 
However, this level of integration, exactly what Steve Thompson was 
alluding to in his post, is a *must* if you're going to debug exotic 
code (e.g., SRB mode -- which can't be HOOKed in the traditional way) 
and/or you want to be able to use and/or debug your recovery routines 
during a z/XDC session. I'll bet most savvy ISVs are doing it just like 
you described!


--
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Phoenix Software International, Inc
5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
Los Angeles, CA 90045
310-338-0400 x318
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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CICS TS V2.3 - End-of-Marketing and End-of-Service dates

2007-10-09 Thread Bill Klein
I sent the following information to the SHARE LNGC project email list,
but 
thought that some within IBM-MAIN and comp.lang.cobol might also be
interested 
(impacted).

   

Today, Oct 9, in IBM (US) announcement 907-207 that you can view online
at:
 
http://www.ibm.com/vrm/newsletter_10577_2055_47992_email_DYN_1IN/WKlein1
2584487

IBM has announced that CICS TS V2.3 will be withdrawn from marketing on
January 
14, 2008 (in the US) with a statement of direction that they plan on
removing it 
from service on September 30, 2009.

The significance to readers of this note is that this is the LAST
release of 
CICS TS for which IBM provides support for OS/VS COBOL compiled
programs.

(After this, they won't even come up in an IBM-only environment. I
assume that 
those for whom this might matter, already know that there is at least
one 3rd 
party vendor - and possibly more - that provides their own support for
OS/VS 
COBOL compiled programs in later versions of CICS - but this does not
change the 
fact that IBM support won't be available.)

If this is an issue for your shop, please make certain that all the
appropriate 
people are made aware of it.

If you are outside the US, then you should check for a corresponding 
announcement letter in your area.

-- 
Bill Klein
 wmklein at ix.netcom.com

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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread David Cole

At 10/9/2007 03:46 PM, Ed Gould wrote:
[snip] BTW after thinking it through I would rather not have the 
dependancies name you mentioned as DR comes into play [...]


Yep. That's a good point.


The secret DDNAME does not work unless it changes say every week (or 
so) as people let the cat out of the bag without thinking...


I was thinking of secret from customers so that they would not 
accidently and unexpectedly be confronted with a debugging interface 
for which they would not have the background knowledge for using said 
interface.


But secret was too strong a word for me to use. What I really was 
talking about was a ddname that was unlikely to be used accidently by 
a customer. Nothing more than that.


If a customer wants to intentionally inflict such pain upon himself 
(debugging code for which he has no source), why would that be of 
particular concern? I just don't get why this would be a cat that 
had to be kept in a bag...




In any case, this is all beside the point. I was just giving some 
examples of how a developer might keep a customer from accidentally 
having to cope with an internal debugging interface that he should 
never have to see anyway. There are maybe thousands of other ways to 
afford this sort of protection, ranging from very simple to very 
complex. If you find shortcomings in my suggestions, well you're a 
smart person. If you wanted to, I'm sure you could find a way to both 
enjoy the benefits of an interactive debugger (such as z/XDC) and 
keep it from appearing in the wrong context.




[snip] If people (ie programmers) were really honest it would not be 
an issue but programmers have this attitude what ever I can get away 
with I will and point fingers if he can't. While I can say its not 
just programmers its a fair share as programmers are bright and they 
can/do squeeze through any loop hole that can be found ...


Wow! I'm sure glad I've never had to work with the lowlife that 
you've suffered with!




Dave Cole  REPLY TO: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cole Software  WEB PAGE: http://www.colesoft.com
736 Fox Hollow RoadVOICE:540-456-8536
Afton, VA 22920FAX:  540-456-6658

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Health CHECK(IBMCSV,CSV_LNKLST_NEWEXTENTS)

2007-10-09 Thread Edward Jaffe
Seems like this health check should recognize when no jobs are using an 
obsolete LNKLST set and stop complaining without having to update the 
check PARM with NEW().


I put a load library on the IPL-time LNKLST with a secondary space 
amount, forced it to add an extent, ran this health check and, as 
expected, received RC=12 with the following report:


|CSVH0969I LNKLST set IPLTIME
|
|The error status is in column one:
|C = Confirmed error* = New error- = Unknown
|
| ORIG CURR VOLUME DSNAME
|*   56 MVSSY1 SYS2.E450.SEJELPA
| TOTAL EXTENTS ORIG: 205CURR: 206

I then activated a new LNKLST set called OCT09A. Re-ran the check and 
got exactly the same return code and report with the following two 
additional lines at the bottom:


CSVH0974I LNKLST set OCT09A is using 206 extents, which has not changed
since it was activated.

I then issued SETPROG LNKLST,UPDATE,JOB=* on all systems and re-ran the 
check again. Same report; same RC=12!


But, when I issue D PROG,LNKLST,USERS,NAME=IPLTIME, I get:

CSV481I THERE ARE NO USERS OF LNKLST SET IPLTIME

Shouldn't the health check understand this condition?

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Los Angeles, CA 90045
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Rob Scott
exotic code

Oooh I like that ! From now on, I am going to be an Exotic Programmer when 
asked.

I agree with Ed and CC here, in my stuff I test for XDC being there (and also 
an internal global/component level option) and then I use XDC as my first-up 
recovery routine. It is not really intended for use at a customer site - but is 
there just in case things get that tricky. I *have* used it on some of the more 
non-standard test systems we have at Rocket when debugging strange 
setups/environments.



Rob Scott
Rocket Software, Inc
275 Grove Street
Newton, MA 02466
617-614-2305
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
Edward Jaffe
Sent: 09 October 2007 21:30
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SLIP sliding away

Craddock, Chris wrote:
[snip]
 If you DO that, then your debugging environment is completely baked
 into your code, but there is no physical dependence on XDC and no way
 for fat fingered programmers to blunder into it. A certain family of
 products that I've had a passing association with :-) are -ALL- like that.
 Recovery and diagnostic support is always there no matter what. And if
 XDC is present and you're properly authorized, you can just use it. If
 it's not present, or it is, but you're not authorized for it, you
 don't even know its there.

 No muss, no fuss. No worries.


Yup! I deliberately didn't go there because the typical non-ISV user probably 
won't feel the need to integrate with z/XDC to that extent.
However, this level of integration, exactly what Steve Thompson was alluding to 
in his post, is a *must* if you're going to debug exotic code (e.g., SRB mode 
-- which can't be HOOKed in the traditional way) and/or you want to be able to 
use and/or debug your recovery routines during a z/XDC session. I'll bet most 
savvy ISVs are doing it just like you described!

--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
Los Angeles, CA 90045
310-338-0400 x318
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Cobol calling EZASOKET gets RC 2912

2007-10-09 Thread Tom Simons
What does CC 2912 mean?  My Cobol test program returns CC 2912 when I add
these EZASOKET calls:

  SOCKET
  CONNECT
  WRITE
  READ
  CLOSE

FWIW, the EZASOKET calls are working - tcpdump at the other end of the
connection shows the outbound  inbound blocks.

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Cobol calling EZASOKET gets RC 2912

2007-10-09 Thread Bill Klein
If the CALL actually seems to be working and EZASOKET doesn't document such
a CC, then it sounds to me as if this is the old not clearing register 15
problem documented at:

 
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/igy3pg32/4.2.4.1 

where it says,
  You might need to think about this handling of the RETURN-CODE special
register when control is returned to a COBOL program from a non-COBOL
program. If the non-COBOL program does not use register 15 to pass back the
return code, the RETURN-CODE special register of the COBOL program might be
updated with an invalid value. Unless you set this special register to a
meaningful value before your Enterprise COBOL program returns to the
operating system, a return code that is invalid will be passed to the
system.

There are a number of documented cases (CICS and DB2 - if I recall
correctly, but maybe others) where IBM products have this problem.  Try
checking the Return-Code special register in your COBOL program IMMEDIATELY
after the CALL.  If it has a non-zero value and the values aren't documented
by the program that you call, then this is probably what is happening. 



Tom Simons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
 What does CC 2912 mean?  My Cobol test program returns CC 2912 when I add
 these EZASOKET calls:
 
   SOCKET
   CONNECT
   WRITE
   READ
   CLOSE
 
 FWIW, the EZASOKET calls are working - tcpdump at the other end of the
 connection shows the outbound  inbound blocks.

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Re: Cobol calling EZASOKET gets RC 2912

2007-10-09 Thread Gray, Larry - Larry A
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I believe the EZASOKET routines do not properly clear R15 on return, so
when you program ends the COBOL program propagates the value back.  Just
set RETURN CODE to 0 in your COBOL program. 


Larry Gray
Large Systems Engineering
Lowe's Companies
336-658-7944

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom Simons
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 6:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Cobol calling EZASOKET gets RC 2912

What does CC 2912 mean?  My Cobol test program returns CC 2912 when I
add these EZASOKET calls:

  SOCKET
  CONNECT
  WRITE
  READ
  CLOSE

FWIW, the EZASOKET calls are working - tcpdump at the other end of the
connection shows the outbound  inbound blocks.

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Re: SLIP sliding away

2007-10-09 Thread Skip Robinson
Looks like Rob has his Halloween costume all planned.  ;-)

BTW I nominate this thread for the coolest title of 2007.

.
.
JO.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
626-302-7535 Office
323-715-0595 Mobile
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


   
 Rob Scott 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 TWARE.COM To 
 Sent by: IBM  IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
 Mainframe  cc 
 Discussion List   
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject 
 .EDU Re: SLIP sliding away   
   
   
 10/09/2007 03:16  
 PM
   
   
 Please respond to 
   IBM Mainframe   
  Discussion List  
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   .EDU   
   
   




exotic code

Oooh I like that ! From now on, I am going to be an Exotic Programmer
when asked.

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Re: Cobol calling EZASOKET gets RC 2912

2007-10-09 Thread Ed Gould


Tom Simons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
What does CC 2912 mean?  My Cobol test program returns CC 2912  
when I add

these EZASOKET calls:

  SOCKET
  CONNECT
  WRITE
  READ
  CLOSE

FWIW, the EZASOKET calls are working - tcpdump at the other end of  
the

connection shows the outbound  inbound blocks.





Hmmm.. check the messages and code for COBOL ... oh wait their isn't  
one... call IBM.


Ed

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How many CF engines are necessary?

2007-10-09 Thread Knutson, Sam
Hi,

 

(Previously posted to MXG-L)

 

We are having some spirited discussion on the need to provision multiple 
engines production data sharing Coupling Facilities.   I was recently given 
this reference 

regarding DB2 v8 CF performance and capacity from DB2 for z/OS: Data Sharing 
in a Nutshell SG24-7322-00.  


Reviewing the metrics is straightforward.  I am very curious to know how

 

1.  How many of you are using the 25% single/50% multiple utilization as a 
threshold to upgrade?  A different threshold?
2.  Who is using multiple engines coupling facilities as a standard to 
support production data sharing?


7.4 How many CF engines are necessary? 

DB2 V8 introduced new CF instructions that handle multiple CF requests at one 
time. They are Read For Castout Multiple (RFCOM) and Write and Register 
Multiple (WARM). The intent of these instructions is to take a number of 
individual instructions and lump them into one instruction that provides a list 
of actions to be performed. WARM allows multiple pages to be written to the CF 
and registered with a single write request. The intent is to take a CF request 
that would take 30 μsec. synchronous service time (about 10 μsec. on the CF 
CPU) and combine may be 10 of them into one instruction that executes in 100 
μsec. on the CF CPU. CF utilization remains the same but host and link activity 
is reduced, especially in DB2 batch insert/update applications. 

The new instructions contribute to significant increases in asynchronous 
requests, as synchronous requests are converted to asynchronous most of the 
time due to the increased time to process Multiple requests. Single CF engine 
effect: Assume there are two CF requests that arrive about the same time. The 
first request will consume 100 μsec. on the CF itself (and is likely 
asynchronous). The second request will consume 10 μsec. on the CF and is 
synchronous. The synchronous request must wait on the only CF processor (not a 
subchannel) until the first request completes. If there had been a second CF 
engine, it could have processed the synchronous request immediately. The result 
of this activity on a CF with a single engine is to have variable response 
times that are reflected in the RMF CF Activity Report in the STD_DEV column 
under SERV TIME (MICS) and DELAY /ALL. 

The longer running commands have the side-effect of monopolizing the single CF 
CPU while they are running, so that any other single-entry CF requests 
(Register Page, for example) that come through will have to wait behind them. 
This will tend to elongate the SERV TIME (MICS) sync service time of the 
single-entry requests and increase their standard deviation as well. If it 
happens to a very significant extent, it could increase the average service 
time for even single-entry commands to the point where they also start to get 
converted to async. When your peak CF CPU utilization on a single engine CF 
approaches 25%, we recommend you add a second engine. 

For this reason alone, we recommend that you follow these suggestions: 
- Do not share CF engines in a production parallel sysplex. 
- Consider providing two dedicated engines minimum per CF for a production 
parallel sysplex for consistent service times. 

For less-than-optimal configurations, our guidelines are as follows: 
- Do not share CF engines in a production parallel sysplex (test and 
development environments have less stringent requirements) 
- If you currently have a single CF engine (per CF), add a second when peak CF 
CPU utilization exceeds 25% (single engine effect). 

Look at the RMF CF activity report, under the coupling facility usage summary 
and find the number beside Average CF utilization (% busy) 
- If you have a multi-engine CF, add another engine when peak CF CPU 
utilization exceeds 50%. 
Note: The numbers used in this section are for illustrative purpose only. 

These guidelines also apply if you implement system-managed duplexing: 
- If you currently have a single CF engine per CF, add a second engine when 
peak CF CPU utilization exceeds 25%. 
- If you have a multi engine CF, add another engine when peak CF CPU 
utilization exceeds 50%. 



Best Regards, 

Sam Knutson, GEICO 
System z Performance and Availability Management 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
(office)  301.986.3574 

Think big, act bold, start simple, grow fast... 

 

 

 

 


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