Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
Timothy Sipples wrote: [...] Also, if you're in the European Union, and maybe one or two other European countries, you already cannot order a factory new mainframe prior to a z9 BC or EC model. That's due to some EU materials regulations way beyond IBM's control. I believe it's also not possible to import even a used pre-z9 into the EU. Isn't it something we call FUD ? The most happy of RoHS was ...IBM (and other suppliers). IBM is proud to claim, only newest model are RoHS complaint. Another method to fight with older generations. Primary and IMHO the most effective method is pricing. Usually it is simply cheaper to change machine instead of upgrading '-1' generation. However it is perfectly possible to buy second-hand machine, even 9672 if one wants. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2007 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci opacony) wynosi 118.064.140 z. W zwizku z realizacj warunkowego podwyszenia kapitau zakadowego, na podstawie uchwa XVI WZ z dnia 21.05.2003 r., kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA moe ulec podwyszeniu do kwoty 118.760.528 z. Akcje w podwyszonym kapitale zakadowym bd w caoci opacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
You may call it FUD - I assume you are implying that the machine withdrawn live up to the EU ROHS Directive? Considering the lead time to develop, manufacture and ship a new line of machines I think it is a reasonable guess that the materials used in z990 and z890 were selected before IBM had the consequences of the EU Directive nailed down. But then, who am I to know. The z990 was withdrawn from marketing in EU by June 30th, 2006 and still marketed in the US as far as I know. Birger Heede IBM Denmark R.S. wrote: Timothy Sipples wrote: [...] Also, if you're in the European Union, and maybe one or two other European countries, you already cannot order a factory new mainframe prior to a z9 BC or EC model. That's due to some EU materials regulations way beyond IBM's control. I believe it's also not possible to import even a used pre-z9 into the EU. Isn't it something we call FUD ? The most happy of RoHS was ...IBM (and other suppliers). IBM is proud to claim, only newest model are RoHS complaint. Another method to fight with older generations. Primary and IMHO the most effective method is pricing. Usually it is simply cheaper to change machine instead of upgrading '-1' generation. However it is perfectly possible to buy second-hand machine, even 9672 if one wants. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
Birger Heede wrote: You may call it FUD - I assume you are implying that the machine withdrawn live up to the EU ROHS Directive? Clarification: I meant second-hand purchase possibilities. Regarding to IBM - some companies decided to modify their products to conform RoHS directive. Possibly they have no newer models. IBM has newer models and is not interested in any investment in older ones - that obvious. just my observation Less obvious, IBM is actively fighting with their older machine models. /just my observation Is it bad? I'm not sure. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2007 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci opacony) wynosi 118.064.140 z. W zwizku z realizacj warunkowego podwyszenia kapitau zakadowego, na podstawie uchwa XVI WZ z dnia 21.05.2003 r., kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA moe ulec podwyszeniu do kwoty 118.760.528 z. Akcje w podwyszonym kapitale zakadowym bd w caoci opacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
Like Edward, I'm puzzled by some of the reaction to this withdrawal-in-the-future announcement. Some people beat up IBM for *not* withdrawing older models soon enough, because they begin to think IBM isn't busy designing the next model! This announcement is simply 6+/12+ months' advance notice, for your planning and procurement purposes, that new z890 machines won't be orderable from the factory. There are new z890s (for now), z890s (and even z800s) on the secondary market, and new z9 BCs. It's a familiar pattern now stretching into its 43rd year and counting. New model is announced which is faster, more flexible, lower cost, and downright better. Less and less demand for new examples of the older model. Over a year (!) later, IBM gives lots of advance warning that the older model will no longer be available new from the factory. Maintenance services, software support, and secondary market availability for the older model continue for a long, long, long time. Loop, repeat. I don't get it. Does someone here have the factory cargo shipping contract but only for the z890? :-) Thank goodness for redoubled innovation, I say. - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:31:27 +0900, Timothy Sipples wrote: Some people beat up IBM for *not* withdrawing older models soon enough, Really? I can't say that I've ever heard that before. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
Tom, Think bleeding-edge large shops, which is where I have worked a fair amount of my career. I certainly have heard it before. Bob Richards -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Marchant Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 9:07 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?! On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:31:27 +0900, Timothy Sipples wrote: Some people beat up IBM for *not* withdrawing older models soon enough, Really? I can't say that I've ever heard that before. -- Tom Marchant LEGAL DISCLAIMER The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. SunTrust and Seeing beyond money are federally registered service marks of SunTrust Banks, Inc. [ST:XCL] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
If you're in the market for a new or upgraded CPU, for whatever reason, why would you not want to get the latest - in this case a z9. Why would you go with the z890? I don't know whether the CPU costs more or less, but the MSU rating of the z9 and subsequent lower software costs make the z9 a better deal. The only thing I could see working to get a z890 is if on the used market the price is so much cheaper that even with the lower software cost of the z9, the total package would be cheaper. Eric Bielefeld Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer Milwaukee, Wisconsin 414-475-7434 - Original Message - From: Timothy Sipples [EMAIL PROTECTED] Like Edward, I'm puzzled by some of the reaction to this withdrawal-in-the-future announcement. Some people beat up IBM for *not* withdrawing older models soon enough, because they begin to think IBM isn't busy designing the next model! This announcement is simply 6+/12+ months' advance notice, for your planning and procurement purposes, that new z890 machines won't be orderable from the factory. There are new z890s (for now), z890s (and even z800s) on the secondary market, and new z9 BCs.Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
This makes z900/z890 perfect solutions for a DRP site. A low MSU rate machine with 1-15 CBUs. Best deal for a five years deal. Itschak -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Bielefeld Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 4:06 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?! If you're in the market for a new or upgraded CPU, for whatever reason, why would you not want to get the latest - in this case a z9. Why would you go with the z890? I don't know whether the CPU costs more or less, but the MSU rating of the z9 and subsequent lower software costs make the z9 a better deal. The only thing I could see working to get a z890 is if on the used market the price is so much cheaper that even with the lower software cost of the z9, the total package would be cheaper. Eric Bielefeld Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer Milwaukee, Wisconsin 414-475-7434 - Original Message - From: Timothy Sipples [EMAIL PROTECTED] Like Edward, I'm puzzled by some of the reaction to this withdrawal-in-the-future announcement. Some people beat up IBM for *not* withdrawing older models soon enough, because they begin to think IBM isn't busy designing the next model! This announcement is simply 6+/12+ months' advance notice, for your planning and procurement purposes, that new z890 machines won't be orderable from the factory. There are new z890s (for now), z890s (and even z800s) on the secondary market, and new z9 BCs.Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/884 - Release Date: 02/07/2007 15:35 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/884 - Release Date: 02/07/2007 15:35 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Bielefeld Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 9:06 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?! If you're in the market for a new or upgraded CPU, for whatever reason, why would you not want to get the latest - in this case a z9. Why would you go with the z890? I don't know whether the CPU costs more or less, but the MSU rating of the z9 and subsequent lower software costs make the z9 a better deal. The only thing I could see working to get a z890 is if on the used market the price is so much cheaper that even with the lower software cost of the z9, the total package would be cheaper. Eric Bielefeld Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer Or you wanted a cheap z890 to be dedicated to running Linux only with no z/VM, just LPARs. There are 100% free (as in beer) versions of Linux which will run on the z890. Then hardware costs are the only costs. Of course, such software is not supported, but that may be OK to some people. Just mentioning it, for completeness. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
I would look at history and see that machines are withdrawn as new machines come on line. My guess is that a new one will be announced before fall. I would also look to other product lines of IBM to see what might be coming. They have done some amazing things with the P-Series. It would not surprise me that some of what they learned there doesn't rub off on the z-Series. Do a google for IBM P6. A doubling of the processor speed, greater bandwidth, greater parallelism. Gee, that all sounds like goodness to me. The only question is price/performance, but history says that will get better too. Christopher Y. Blaicher BMC Software, Inc. Austin Development Labs (512) 340-6154 The comments made are my personal opinions. BMC Software, Inc. makes no representations or promises regarding the reliability, completeness, or accuracy of the information provided in this discussion; all readers agree not to rely on this information or take any action against BMC Software in response to this information. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Itschak Mugzach This makes z900/z890 perfect solutions for a DRP site. A low MSU rate machine with 1-15 CBUs. Best deal for a five years deal. Itschak -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Bielefeld If you're in the market for a new or upgraded CPU, for whatever reason, why would you not want to get the latest - in this case a z9. Why would you go with the z890? I don't know whether the CPU costs more or less, but the MSU rating of the z9 and subsequent lower software costs make the z9 a better deal. The only thing I could see working to get a z890 is if on the used market the price is so much cheaper that even with the lower software cost of the z9, the total package would be cheaper. Eric Bielefeld Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer Milwaukee, Wisconsin 414-475-7434 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blaicher, Chris Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:05 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?! I would look at history and see that machines are withdrawn as new machines come on line. My guess is that a new one will be announced before fall. I would also look to other product lines of IBM to see what might be coming. They have done some amazing things with the P-Series. It would not surprise me that some of what they learned there doesn't rub off on the z-Series. Do a google for IBM P6. A doubling of the processor speed, greater bandwidth, greater parallelism. Gee, that all sounds like goodness to me. The only question is price/performance, but history says that will get better too. Christopher Y. Blaicher And, just so that we don't think that MSU pricing is a System z only phenomenon, the AIX (pSeries) people are getting hit with PVU pricing (Processor Value Units). The new P6 cores cost 1.2 PVUs per core more than the previous P5 cores. And, again, IBM is saying that the user is getting more power per PVU because a P6 core is more than 1.2 times a powerful as a P5 core. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/02/ibm_pvu_power6/ -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
On 7/3/2007 10:10 AM, Itschak Mugzach wrote: This makes z900/z890 perfect solutions for a DRP site. A low MSU rate machine with 1-15 CBUs. Best deal for a five years deal. Don't you run the risk, when using an older generation of hardware for disaster backup, that it might not support some of the newer hardware functions your workload may come to depend on? Walt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
On Jul 3, 2007, at 1:31 AM, Timothy Sipples wrote: Like Edward, I'm puzzled by some of the reaction to this withdrawal-in-the-future announcement. Some people beat up IBM for *not* withdrawing older models soon enough, because they begin to think IBM isn't busy designing the next model! This announcement is simply 6+/12+ months' advance notice, for your planning and procurement purposes, that new z890 machines won't be orderable from the factory. There are new z890s (for now), z890s (and even z800s) on the secondary market, and new z9 BCs. It's a familiar pattern now stretching into its 43rd year and counting. New model is announced which is faster, more flexible, lower cost, and downright better. Less and less demand for new examples of the older model. Over a year (!) later, IBM gives lots of advance warning that the older model will no longer be available new from the factory. Maintenance services, software support, and secondary market availability for the older model continue for a long, long, long time. Loop, repeat. I don't get it. Does someone here have the factory cargo shipping contract but only for the z890? :-) Thank goodness for redoubled innovation, I say. Timothy, Probably INTEL. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
Timothy Sipples says: Some people beat up IBM for *not* withdrawing older models soon enough, Tom Marchant remarks: Really? I can't say that I've ever heard that before. Bob Richards responds: Think bleeding-edge large shops, which is where I have worked a fair amount of my career. I certainly have heard it before. Yes, I was thinking of that same situation as Bob. Another situation I've run into is government, of any size. I remember one county or city that has what's probably a fairly common procurement policy: If the product is new from the factory, a formal procurement process is required which stretches to a year or more. If the product is available new from the factory, it has to be bought new from the factory. If the product is used and no longer available new from the factory, the procurement process is relatively simple and quick. More generally, taxes and depreciation can vary dramatically depending on who and where you are, and new versus used. Also, if you're in the European Union, and maybe one or two other European countries, you already cannot order a factory new mainframe prior to a z9 BC or EC model. That's due to some EU materials regulations way beyond IBM's control. I believe it's also not possible to import even a used pre-z9 into the EU. I have no inside information here, but one would think the EU regulations would have some bearing on the rest of the world. The EU is a very big market. - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
John McKown observes: Or you wanted a cheap z890 to be dedicated to running Linux only with no z/VM, just LPARs. There are 100% free (as in beer) versions of Linux which will run on the z890. Then hardware costs are the only costs. Of course, such software is not supported, but that may be OK to some people. Just mentioning it, for completeness. This might make sense if you already own a z890. It might also make sense used. For a new z890 order from the factory? The z9 BC still has the exact same software option you describe, but you get to run it on lower priced IFLs that are substantially faster, more numerous (up to 7 instead of up to 4, or more generous sparing if you have fewer), and with more memory expansion available (maximum 64 GB physical per frame versus 32 GB). And with lower cost two-port I/O cards, faster I/O, improved crypto, program directed Linux re-IPL Well, you get the idea. Your mileage may vary. - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
Sorry to veer this discussion away from the frustrated English teachers who would rather discuss pendatics rather than IBM-Main in this thread but ... Edward E Jaffe wrote: I haven't seen this announcement. But, even if they've stopped selling zSeries processors. So what? System z is all the rage now! --- OK, I'll explain so what. It's the politics of the situation that's important. With all the anti-mainframe forces circling like vultures looking for the slightest excuse to get rid of it, something like this could be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back. Systems like this are sold as being good for x years. This is done with a mid-life upgrade in mind to make it so. If it doesn't last that long, management will ask Why not?. Yes, I see we have a little time left to order an upgrade we will probably do so just to get it in. Getting a used box in for an upgrade is a poor alternative to having IBM bump the current one for several reasons: (1) This means having a seperate, new box in the computer room with it's additional requirements for cooling, UPS, floor space. (2) An upgrade like that requires re-cabling all controllers when doing the upgrade, not a pretty thought. (3) Messy software licensing upgrade since the serial # changes - a real pain. (4) Again, politics budgeting may require a different path for a different box as opposed to upgrading the one that's already in. It seems like IBM keeps shooting itself in the foot when they do stuff like this. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
Marvin Lukasik wrote: Sorry to veer this discussion away from the frustrated English teachers who would rather discuss pendatics rather than IBM-Main in this thread but ... Edward E Jaffe wrote: I haven't seen this announcement. But, even if they've stopped selling zSeries processors. So what? System z is all the rage now! --- OK, I'll explain so what. It's the politics of the situation that's important. With all the anti-mainframe forces circling like vultures looking for the slightest excuse to get rid of it, something like this could be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back. Systems like this are sold as being good for x years. This is done with a mid-life upgrade in mind to make it so. If it doesn't last that long, management will ask Why not?. But, the announcement letter to which Tom referred (that I still haven't seen -- does anyone have an announcement number? Or is this just rumor and speculation?) supposedly indicates that zSeries processors are being withdrawn from marketing, which says nothing about end of service. System z9 processors scale lower/higher/better and are most cost effective than zSeries anyway. So, I don't understand the problem. It would be like me trying to buy last year's DELL PC and finding out only this year's model is available for sale. That says nothing about how long last year's model is supposed to last (MTBF and all that). It merely says the older ones are no longer for sale as they have been replaced by newer, better machines. It happens every day. There's nothing political about it ... -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
http://www-306.ibm.com/common/ssi/fcgi-bin/ssialias?subtype=cainfotype=anappname=iSourcesupplier=877letternum=ENUSZG07-0310 On 7/2/07, Edward Jaffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marvin Lukasik wrote: Sorry to veer this discussion away from the frustrated English teachers who would rather discuss pendatics rather than IBM-Main in this thread but ... Edward E Jaffe wrote: I haven't seen this announcement. But, even if they've stopped selling zSeries processors. So what? System z is all the rage now! --- OK, I'll explain so what. It's the politics of the situation that's important. With all the anti-mainframe forces circling like vultures looking for the slightest excuse to get rid of it, something like this could be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back. Systems like this are sold as being good for x years. This is done with a mid-life upgrade in mind to make it so. If it doesn't last that long, management will ask Why not?. But, the announcement letter to which Tom referred (that I still haven't seen -- does anyone have an announcement number? Or is this just rumor and speculation?) supposedly indicates that zSeries processors are being withdrawn from marketing, which says nothing about end of service. System z9 processors scale lower/higher/better and are most cost effective than zSeries anyway. So, I don't understand the problem. It would be like me trying to buy last year's DELL PC and finding out only this year's model is available for sale. That says nothing about how long last year's model is supposed to last (MTBF and all that). It merely says the older ones are no longer for sale as they have been replaced by newer, better machines. It happens every day. There's nothing political about it ... -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Marvin Lukasik wrote: Edward E Jaffe wrote: I haven't seen this announcement. But, even if they've stopped selling zSeries processors. So what? System z is all the rage now! OK, I'll explain so what. It's the politics of the situation that's important. With all the anti-mainframe forces circling like vultures looking for the slightest excuse to get rid of it, something like this could be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back. Systems like this are sold as being good for x years. This is done with a mid-life upgrade in mind to make it so. If it doesn't last that long, management will ask Why not?. But, the announcement letter to which Tom referred (that I still haven't seen -- does anyone have an announcement number? Or is this just rumor and speculation?) supposedly indicates that zSeries processors are being withdrawn from marketing, which says nothing about end of service. System z9 processors scale lower/higher/better and are most cost effective than zSeries anyway. So, I don't understand the problem. IBM United States Announcement 907-134, dated June 26, 2007 Hardware withdrawal: IBM eServer zSeries 890 (z890) systems, features and upgrades - Replacement available -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
Chase, John wrote: IBM United States Announcement 907-134, dated June 26, 2007 Hardware withdrawal: IBM eServer zSeries 890 (z890) systems, features and upgrades - Replacement available Thanks for the pointer. I missed it in my (brief) search because I misread/misunderstood the post and thought this marketing withdrawal applied to all zSeries processors ... not just z890. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
I have to agree with Marvin on this one. IBM is forcing an upgrade on clients that may not have any need for one. This is just one more reason for the mid sized shops to dump thier mainframe and move on. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
Alan Scott wrote: I have to agree with Marvin on this one. IBM is forcing an upgrade on clients that may not have any need for one. This is just one more reason for the mid sized shops to dump thier mainframe and move on. If I understand the announcement correctly, customers are not required to change processors unless they wish to upgrade the capacity of their existing z890. In this type of situation, I'll be willing to bet that IBM is offering some sweet trade-ins on existing z890s. (When we traded in our z800 for a z9BC last year, they gave us *full* credit for *all* of the z800's MIPS!) I seriously doubt _any_ mid-size z890 shops will dump their mainframe(s) due to this announcement. Customers running on z890 have already demonstrated their commitment to the platform by upgrading to such a nice machine in the first place. In my experience, customers that leave have almost always been stuck on really old hardware/software levels for many years before doing so. And, if IBM handles things right by making them offers they can't refuse, these customers might actually be happier after the upgrade than they were before. We'll have to see how it plays out... -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 1:34 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?! Alan Scott wrote: I have to agree with Marvin on this one. IBM is forcing an upgrade on clients that may not have any need for one. This is just one more reason for the mid sized shops to dump thier mainframe and move on. If I understand the announcement correctly, customers are not required to change processors unless they wish to upgrade the capacity of their existing z890. In this type of situation, I'll be willing to bet that IBM is offering some sweet trade-ins on existing z890s. (When we traded in our z800 for a z9BC last year, they gave us *full* credit for *all* of the z800's MIPS!) I seriously doubt _any_ mid-size z890 shops will dump their mainframe(s) due to this announcement. Customers running on z890 have already demonstrated their commitment to the platform by upgrading to such a nice machine in the first place. In my experience, customers that leave have almost always been stuck on really old hardware/software levels for many years before doing so. And, if IBM handles things right by making them offers they can't refuse, these customers might actually be happier after the upgrade than they were before. We'll have to see how it plays out... -- Edward E Jaffe We saved a TON of hard cash by upgrading our z890-250 to a more powerful z9BC-T02. Lower hardware costs, lower software costs, more processor MIPS. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
On Mon, 2 Jul 2007 10:51:46 -0700, Edward Jaffe wrote: Thanks for the pointer. I missed it in my (brief) search because I misread/misunderstood the post and thought this marketing withdrawal applied to all zSeries processors ... not just z890. I think the z890 is the last of the zSeries though. Aren't the z800/900 and z890/990 all withdrawn from marketing now The only boxes left are z9 BC/EC, correct ??? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
Is this a fact? We just installed ours 18 months ago!! I searched IBM.com to no avail concerning this. Can someone point me to a URL or announcement letter? TIA - Tom Conley wrote: IBM would help tremendously if it did not obsolete its mainframes every 5 years. In my client's case, they bought their 9672 in 1997, and it was effectively dead-ended in 2001 when they installed OS/390 V2R10. IBM just withdrew the z890, and we're due for the next levelset to take out the z800 and z900 series. Companies who used to get 10 years out of a mainframe can do so no longer because IBM won't permit it. Regards, Tom Conley -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
This just means it was withdrawn from marketing, it is still a supported hardware platform. Marvin Lukasik wrote: Is this a fact? We just installed ours 18 months ago!! I searched IBM.com to no avail concerning this. Can someone point me to a URL or announcement letter? TIA -- Rich Smrcina VM Assist, Inc. Phone: 414-491-6001 Ans Service: 360-715-2467 rich.smrcina at vmassist.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/richsmrcina Catch the WAVV! http://www.wavv.org WAVV 2008 - Chattanooga - April 18-22, 2008 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
Marvin, it is withdrawal of upgrades, both real and microcode. Here is the letter http://www-306.ibm.com/common/ssi/fcgi-bin/ssialias?subtype=cainfotype=anappname=iSourcesupplier=877letternum=ENUSZG07-0310 On 6/29/07, Marvin Lukasik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this a fact? We just installed ours 18 months ago!! I searched IBM.com to no avail concerning this. Can someone point me to a URL or announcement letter? TIA - Tom Conley wrote: IBM would help tremendously if it did not obsolete its mainframes every 5 years. In my client's case, they bought their 9672 in 1997, and it was effectively dead-ended in 2001 when they installed OS/390 V2R10. IBM just withdrew the z890, and we're due for the next levelset to take out the z800 and z900 series. Companies who used to get 10 years out of a mainframe can do so no longer because IBM won't permit it. Regards, Tom Conley -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
Marvin Lukasik wrote: Is this a fact? We just installed ours 18 months ago!! I searched IBM.com to no avail concerning this. Can someone point me to a URL or announcement letter? I haven't seen this announcement. But, even if they've stopped selling zSeries processors. So what? System z is all the rage now! -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
On 6/29/2007 11:08 AM, Edward Jaffe wrote: Marvin Lukasik wrote: Is this a fact? We just installed ours 18 months ago!! I searched IBM.com to no avail concerning this. Can someone point me to a URL or announcement letter? I haven't seen this announcement. But, even if they've stopped selling zSeries processors. So what? System z is all the rage now! Hopefully not too pedantic, but I feel I should comment that the System z term encompasses both the IBM System z9 family and the IBM zSeries family of processors. So you might want to say System z9 processors are all the rage now. That also uses the term properly, since (as a trademarked term) it is an adjective, not a noun. (But that may be getting too pedantic :-) Walt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
After a few years' experience, I have come to wonder whether it's even possible to be too pedantic for this list. Jon snip That also uses the term properly, since (as a trademarked term) it is an adjective, not a noun. (But that may be getting too pedantic :-) /snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM withdraws Z890 ?!?!?!
On Fri, 2007-06-29 at 14:43 -0400, Jon Brock wrote: After a few years' experience, I have come to wonder whether it's even possible to be too pedantic for this list. snip That also uses the term properly, since (as a trademarked term) it is an adjective, not a noun. (But that may be getting too pedantic :-) /snip Yep generally agree, but you'd have to say that Walt is sailing pretty darn close with that ... Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
