Re: JES2 at DR
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/10/2007 at 08:16 AM, Lizette Koehler [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: If I start JES2 with PARM='COLD,NOFMT' that will cold start the Checkpoint and not format the Spool spaces. You can't do[1] NOFMT unless the online SPOOL volumes are already formatted. You have to format the remaining SPOOL volumes sooner or later. Do you have reason to believe that it is faster to format a raw volume than to restore from a full dump of an already formatted volume? We are just doing full volume restores of our JES2 volumes so they will not be allocated as new spaces. They already exist. Then they're already formatted. We are trying to reduce the time our JES2 startup takes at DR and I forget how the spool space is handled after the Cold start is completed on the checkpoint. If you restored dumps of formatted SPOOL volumes then there is no need to format them again. Is there something that you left out of your question? Are you actually restoring from partial dumps? BTW, in a past life I was always able[2] to do a warm start for DR tests. We used FDR. YMMV. [1] As opposed to requesting NOFMT and JES2 ignoring it. [2] I'm not saying that it's a good idea, just that I got away with it. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
JES2 at DR
We are running z/OS V1.7 Simple question. If I start JES2 with PARM='COLD,NOFMT' that will cold start the Checkpoint and not format the Spool spaces. Then after that finishes do I still need to format the Spool Space or will just cold starting the Checkpoint be sufficient? Or does that then just push out the format of the spool spaces? We are just doing full volume restores of our JES2 volumes so they will not be allocated as new spaces. They already exist. We are trying to reduce the time our JES2 startup takes at DR and I forget how the spool space is handled after the Cold start is completed on the checkpoint. Currently the discussion here is to vary offline all spool packs but 1 and issue the S JES2,PARM=COLD. I am thinking we can reduce our memory requirements if we just do a S JES2,PARM='COLD,NOFMT' and then we would not need to document the vary offline/online actions. I am thinking the first scenario will force a MINI Format on the JES2 Spool packs and reduce our time getting JES2 up at DR. S JES2,PARM='COLD,NOFMT' $S $SSPL,V=(SPOOL1),FORMAT -- Is this needed? Or is it S JES2,PARM='COLD,NOFMT' -- Mini Format invoked by JES2 $S Start inits, batch, whatever? Thanks.. Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: JES2 at DR
I'm not sure this is that much of an issue anymore. Years ago, in a prior life, probably while running MVS/XA, our DR plan called for allocating only one spool volume before the first IPL because the format during the cold start took such a long time. After the IPL, we would allocate the rest of the spool space and then let JES format it while we did other things in parallel, At our last DR test a few months ago, running z/OS 1.4, my notes show that the cold start, which formatted three 3390-3 volumes, only took 2 minutes. Tom Chicklon snip We are running z/OS V1.7 Simple question. If I start JES2 with PARM='COLD,NOFMT' that will cold start the Checkpoint and not format the Spool spaces. Then after that finishes do I still need to format the Spool Space or will just cold starting the Checkpoint be sufficient? Or does that then just push out the format of the spool spaces? We are just doing full volume restores of our JES2 volumes so they will not be allocated as new spaces. They already exist. We are trying to reduce the time our JES2 startup takes at DR and I forget how the spool space is handled after the Cold start is completed on the checkpoint. /snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: JES2 at DR
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler We are running z/OS V1.7 Simple question. If I start JES2 with PARM='COLD,NOFMT' that will cold start the Checkpoint and not format the Spool spaces. Then after that finishes do I still need to format the Spool Space or will just cold starting the Checkpoint be sufficient? Or does that then just push out the format of the spool spaces? We are just doing full volume restores of our JES2 volumes so they will not be allocated as new spaces. They already exist. Best we can recall from our datacenter move last fall, we didn't even cold-start JES2 at the new location after restoring everything (including checkpoint) from full-volume dumps. There may have been some minor complaints initially from JES2, but everything worked correctly and we haven't had to look back at all. I guess it's possible that the minor complaints might have been attributable to DFSMSdss' (mis)handling of the changed bits in the VTOCs at restore time, but we never thought to try to make a connection between that and the stale user PDS we discovered after the move. -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: JES2 at DR
Ah, all good points. But my query is now leaning towards having a clean spool at DR without the headaches. So is my assumption correct? If the checkpoint/spool space that is restored from Full Volume Dumps has a S JES2,PARM='COLD,NOFMT' that JES2 would invoke a MINI format (QUICK Format) rather than a full blown format which would happen with a brand new, never before used environment? I wish I had a test system to do the playing with, but my current shop just loves to SHARE everything. Lizette -- --Years ago, in a prior life, probably while running MVS/XA, our DR plan --called for allocating only one spool volume before the first IPL because the --format during the cold start took such a long time. After the IPL, we would --allocate the rest of the spool space and then let JES format it while we did --other things in parallel, -- --At our last DR test a few months ago, running z/OS 1.4, my notes show that --the cold start, which formatted three 3390-3 volumes, only took 2 minutes. -- --Tom Chicklon -- --snip --We are running z/OS V1.7 -- --Simple question. -- --If I start JES2 with PARM='COLD,NOFMT' that will cold start the Checkpoint --and not format the Spool spaces. Then after that finishes do I still need --to format the Spool Space or will just cold starting the Checkpoint be --sufficient? Or does that then just push out the format of the spool spaces? --We are just doing full volume restores of our JES2 volumes so they will not --be allocated as new spaces. They already exist. -- -- --We are trying to reduce the time our JES2 startup takes at DR and I forget --how the spool space is handled after the Cold start is completed on the --checkpoint. --/snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: JES2 at DR
On Thu, 10 May 2007 08:50:34 -0400, Lizette Koehler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So is my assumption correct? If the checkpoint/spool space that is restored from Full Volume Dumps has a S JES2,PARM='COLD,NOFMT' that JES2 would invoke a MINI format (QUICK Format) rather than a full blown format which would happen with a brand new, never before used environment? Yes. And if you just use PARM=COLD it is the same thing since NOFMT is the default. Since JES2 sees the previously formatted spool space (via full volume restore) it will only do the mini format. If it was new spool space, JES2 would still do the format as if you specified FORMAT. To cover a point in your first post You may or may not save time by VARYing all but one spool volume offline prior to stating JES2.At JES2 warm start, it will format all of the volumes it sees in parallel - so depending on how many volumes, CHPIDs, DASD subsystems, control units, etc. it may be worth a little extra time to do them all at startup. If you wait and issue $SSPOOL commands for the remaining volumes, the formatting will be single threaded (unless something has changed... this is how it worked the last time I checked). Regards, Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group: G-ITO mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] z/OS and OS390 expert at http://searchDataCenter.com/ateExperts/ Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: JES2 at DR
I think you are going to need someone who restores their spool volumes at DR to answer this one. We just INIT the volumes and allocate the spool space from the DR floor system while the other restore jobs are running; we don't restore the spool volumes. Tom Chicklon --- Ah, all good points. But my query is now leaning towards having a clean spool at DR without the headaches. So is my assumption correct? If the checkpoint/spool space that is restored from Full Volume Dumps has a S JES2,PARM='COLD,NOFMT' that JES2 would invoke a MINI format (QUICK Format) rather than a full blown format which would happen with a brand new, never before used environment? I wish I had a test system to do the playing with, but my current shop just loves to SHARE everything. Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: JES2 at DR
Yea, I never have figured out why DASD folks love doing volume restores only to reformat the volume. I guess it might be easier that trying to keep track of all those allocation jobs. My experience with six 3390-3 volumes is just a couple of minutes to cold start. JES runs much faster right after a cold start which tends to make up any time formatting. Also, none of those scary error messages from JES. HTH and good luck! -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chicklon, Tom Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 8:14 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: JES2 at DR I think you are going to need someone who restores their spool volumes at DR to answer this one. We just INIT the volumes and allocate the spool space from the DR floor system while the other restore jobs are running; we don't restore the spool volumes. Tom Chicklon NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: JES2 at DR
Thanks, That answers the question. Lizette Yea, I never have figured out why DASD folks love doing volume restores only to reformat the volume. I guess it might be easier that trying to keep track of all those allocation jobs. My experience with six 3390-3 volumes is just a couple of minutes to cold start. JES runs much faster right after a cold start which tends to make up any time formatting. Also, none of those scary error messages from JES. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: JES2 at DR
By full volume dump do you mean full track dump of all tracks? On my 2.10 system, a vanilla DSS full volume dump only dumps the used portions of datasets. Since JES never sets the high water mark for spool datasets, my spool packs dump pretty quickly. I've never restored one but in this case I don't think there is enough data on the tape to produce a formatted dataset. -Original Message- From: Lizette Koehler [mailto:snip] Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 5:51 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: JES2 at DR Ah, all good points. But my query is now leaning towards having a clean spool at DR without the headaches. So is my assumption correct? If the checkpoint/spool space that is restored from Full Volume Dumps has a S JES2,PARM='COLD,NOFMT' that JES2 would invoke a MINI format (QUICK Format) rather than a full blown format which would happen with a brand new, never before used environment? I wish I had a test system to do the playing with, but my current shop just loves to SHARE everything. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: JES2 at DR
-snip--- We are running z/OS V1.7 Simple question. If I start JES2 with PARM='COLD,NOFMT' that will cold start the Checkpoint and not format the Spool spaces. Then after that finishes do I still need to format the Spool Space or will just cold starting the Checkpoint be sufficient? Or does that then just push out the format of the spool spaces? We are just doing full volume restores of our JES2 volumes so they will not be allocated as new spaces. They already exist. We are trying to reduce the time our JES2 startup takes at DR and I forget how the spool space is handled after the Cold start is completed on the checkpoint. Currently the discussion here is to vary offline all spool packs but 1 and issue the S JES2,PARM=COLD. I am thinking we can reduce our memory requirements if we just do a S JES2,PARM='COLD,NOFMT' and then we would not need to document the vary offline/online actions. I am thinking the first scenario will force a MINI Format on the JES2 Spool packs and reduce our time getting JES2 up at DR. S JES2,PARM='COLD,NOFMT' $S $SSPOOL1),FORMAT -- Is this needed? Or is it S JES2,PARM='COLD,NOFMT' -- Mini Format invoked by JES2 $S Start inits, batch, whatever? Thanks.. ---unsnip-- We always had a SPOOL1 volume with both checkpoint datasets as well as a reasonable spool space restored at DR. A 'COLD,NOFMT' was sufficient to get the basic sustem up and finish the restores and start processing. Additional spool volumes were added and formatted after we got things up to the point where business processing could be started up. The $SSPOOL command was only needed to add additional spool volumes. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: JES2 at DR
snip-- Ah, all good points. But my query is now leaning towards having a clean spool at DR without the headaches. So is my assumption correct? If the checkpoint/spool space that is restored from Full Volume Dumps has a S JES2,PARM='COLD,NOFMT' that JES2 would invoke a MINI format (QUICK Format) rather than a full blown format which would happen with a brand new, never before used environment? I wish I had a test system to do the playing with, but my current shop just loves to SHARE everything. unsnip- I'm not familiar with what you call a MINI format, but a COLT,NOFMT start clears the checkpoint, leaving you with a clear and empty spool. I only did a FORMAT when I added SPOOL2-SPOOL9, which were NOT restored but simply re-defined on whatever spare volumes we chose. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
