Java problem

2009-10-05 Thread Steve Comstock 

We've recently been migrating our z/OS system from
our Thinkpad under FLEX-ES to the IBM Dallas center.

It's actually going pretty well, but now I'm having a problem
doing a simple Java compile. Here's what happens:

===> javac cgijava1.java 

java/io/PrintStream.java(java/io:PrintStream.java):1: illegal character: \7 

- 
---&ÊÑ>ÈëÈÊÁ/_-¦/Î/---ä?ø`ÊÑÅÇÈ--ëÍ>-(ÑÄÊ?Ë`ËÈÁ_Ë--ñ>Ä-- %%-ÊÑÅÇÈË-ÊÁËÁÊÎÁÀ-ëí+-&ê|&êñáè êßä|+ãñàá+èñ <

--íËÁ-ÑË-ËͦÁÄÈ-È?-%ÑÄÁ>ËÁ-ÈÁÊ_Ë--ø/Ä,/ÅÁ-¦/Î/-Ñ?---Ñ_ø?ÊÈ-¦/Î/-ÍÈÑ%-ã?Ê_/ÈÈÁÊ--Ñ_ø?ÊÈ-¦/Î/-ÍÈÑ%-ÈÊ?%%ÁÊ---ñâ(-øÁÊìãÑ%Áñ|-Ñ_ø?ÊÈ-ËÍ>-ËÁÄÍÊÑÈ`-/ÄÈÑ?>-åÁÈ&Ê?øÁÊÈ`
 ÄÈÑ?>
ñâ(-øÁÊìãÑ%Áñ|- 
--Ä?ÀÁ-&ÊÑ>ÈëÈÊÁ/_-Ä?ÀÁ--/ÀÀË-ÃÍ>ÄÈÑ?>/%ÑÈ`-È?-/>?ÈÇÁÊ-?ÍÈøÍÈ-ËÈÊÁ/_->/_Á%`-ÈÇÁ-/ÂÑ%
ÑÈ`-È?-øÊÑ>È-ÊÁøÊÁËÁ>È/ÈÑ?>Ë-?Ã-Î/ÊÑ?ÍË-À/È/-Î/%ÍÁËÄ?>ÎÁ>ÑÁ>È%`---èÏ?-?ÈÇÁÊ-ÃÁ/ÈÍÊÁË-/ÊÁ-øÊ?ÎÑÀÁÀ-/Ë-ÏÁ%%---í>%Ñ,Á-?ÈÇÁÊ-?ÍÈøÍÈ--
--ËÈÊÁ/_Ë--/--Ä?ÀÁ-&ÊÑ>ÈëÈÊÁ/_-Ä?ÀÁ-->ÁÎÁÊ-ÈÇÊ?ÏË-/>-Ä?ÀÁ-ñ|áÌÄÁøÈÑ?>-Ä?ÀÁ---Ñ>ËÈÁ/À--ÁÌÄÁøÈÑ?>/%-ËÑÈÍ/ÈÑ?>Ë-_ÁÊÁ%`-ËÁÈ-/>Ñ>È
.
.
.



It compiles fine on our old system; we are using Java 1.6
in both cases. Environment variables of note:


Old:

CLASSPATH="/u/scomsto/CGI:/u/scomsto/public_html/Java:/usr/lpp/internet/server_root/cgi-bin:/usr/lpp/java16/J6.0:" 

JAVA_HOME="/usr/lpp/java16/J6.0" 

LANG="C" 


LIBPATH="/usr/lpp/java16/J6.0/bin/classic:/usr/lpp/java16/J6.0/bin:/usr/lpp/ldap/lib:/usr/lpp/internet/sbin:/usr/lpp/internet/bin:/us
r/lpp/Printsrv/lib:/lib:/usr/lib:." 

NLSPATH="/usr/lpp/Printsrv/%L/%N:/usr/lib/nls/msg/%L/%N:/usr/lib/nls/msg/%L/%N.cat" 


PATH="/usr/local/bin:/usr/lpp/pli/bin:/usr/lpp/cobol/bin:/usr/lpp/Printsrv/bin:/bin:.:/usr/lpp/java16/J6.0/bin:/usr/lpp/toolsNtoys/bi
n"


New:


CLASSPATH="/u/scomsto/CGI:/u/scomsto/public_html/Java:/usr/lpp/internet/server_root/cgi-bin:/u/Java6_31/J6.0:/u/Java6_31/J6.0/src.zip" 



JAVA_HOME="/u/Java6_31/J6.0" 

LANG="C" 


LIBPATH="/u/Java6_31/J6.0/bin/classic:/u/Java6_31/J6.0/bin:/usr/lpp/ldap/lib:/usr/lpp/internet/sbin:/usr/lpp/internet/bin:/lib:/usr/l
ib:.:/usr/lib/java_runtime" 

NLSPATH="/usr/lib/nls/msg/%L/%N:/usr/lib/nls/msg/%L/%N.cat" 

PATH="/u/Java6_31/J6.0/bin:/usr/lpp/pli/bin:/usr/lpp/internet/bin:/usr/lpp/cobol/bin:/bin:." 






I seem to recall running into this problem once before,
but I can't seem to recall how I solved it.

Any suggestions here?



--

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

  z/OS Application development made easier
* Our classes include
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   + Programming examples with realistic applications
   + Starter / skeleton code
   + Complete working programs
   + Useful utilities and subroutines
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Re: Java problem

2009-10-06 Thread Jan MOEYERSONS 
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 20:01:34 -0600, Steve Comstock 
 wrote:

>---&ÊÑ>ÈëÈÊÁ/_-¦/Î/---ä?ø`ÊÑÅÇÈ--ëÍ>-(ÑÄÊ?Ë`ËÈÁ_Ë-
-ñ>Ä-- %%-ÊÑÅÇÈË-ÊÁËÁÊÎÁÀ-ëí+-&ê|&êñáè êßä|+ãñàá+èñ <

This looks to me as if there is some ASCII/EBCDIC conversion missing.

Do you have some environment variables like:
_BPXK_AUTOCVT=ON
_BPXK_CCSIDS=(1047,819)
set? Did your source code loose its tag in the migration process?

Cheers,

Jantje.

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Deeper java problem

2009-10-06 Thread Steve Comstock 

Replying to my first post about a Java compile
program, several people suggested it was a
codepage issue. And that was my first thought,
too, since I had been experimenting with
various code pages in my emulator.

However, with codepages matching in both the
old and the new system, I cut and pasted from
the old to the new and reran the compile. Same
result.

Michael Klaeschen suggested I check file.encoding
and the symbol IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS, but I can't find
those. I'm just issuing the javac command directly
under omvs.

More disturbing, I did a cd to the JAVA_HOME directory:

cd /u/Java6_31/J6.0

And an 'ls' showed:

-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP  425 Jun  3 22:39 HelloWorld.class
drwxr-xr-x   2 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Mar 14  2008 IBM
-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP6 Jun  3 22:39 JDK_INSTALL_OK
drwxr-xr-x   4 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:39 bin
-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP  833 Mar 22  2009 copyright
drwxr-xr-x  13 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:36 demo
drwxr-xr-x  16 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:39 docs
drwxr-xr-x   3 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:36 include
drwxr-xr-x  13 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:35 lib
-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP44534 Jun  3 22:39 license_en.txt
drwxr-xr-x   3 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:37 mvstools
-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP36370 Jun  3 22:40 notices.txt
-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP 1694 May 29 09:41 readmefirst.zos.txt
-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP  9084677 Jun  3 22:19 src.zip
drwxr-xr-x   5 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:40 standard

But when I tried to run the sample, here is what I got:

java HelloWorld.class
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: HelloWorld.class
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: HelloWorld.class
at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:419)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:643)
at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:345)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:609)
Could not find the main class: HelloWorld.class.  Program will exit.

just to be sure, I looked at PATH and CLASSPATH:

printenv PATH
/u/Java6_31/J6.0/bin:/usr/lpp/pli/bin:/usr/lpp/internet/bin:/usr/lpp/cobol/bin:/bin:. 



printenv CLASSPATH
/u/scomsto/CGI:/u/scomsto/public_html/Java:/usr/lpp/internet/server_root/cgi-bin:/u/Java6_31/J6.0:/u/Java6_31/J6.0/src.zip:. 



In both cases, the '.' at the end should ensure a search
in the current working directory. And I was running in
the JAVA_HOME directory. And I can see the class right
there before me.

Any suggestions at this point?


--

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

  z/OS Application development made easier
* Our classes include
   + How things work
   + Programming examples with realistic applications
   + Starter / skeleton code
   + Complete working programs
   + Useful utilities and subroutines
   + Tips and techniques

==> Ask about being added to our opt-in list:  <==
==>   * Early announcement of new courses  <==
==>   * Early announcement of new techincal papers <==
==>   * Early announcement of new promotions   <==

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Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-13 Thread Barbara Nitz 
Quote from the diagnosis book:

"It is easier for IBM Service to solve a problem when a test case is available. 
Include a test case with your problem report wherever possible."

This really rubs me the wrong way, not because it isn't true, but because to me 
it sounds like justification why these highly intermittend, non-reproducible 
problems are never found! To someone used to z/OS and finding the bug with the 
one and only dump ever produced (because it is a serialization problem of some 
sort, possibly caused by the fact that multiple processors can execute the same 
instruction at exactly the same time), this sounds like an excuse, proven by 
the way these problems are always handled, due to lack of skill and knowledge..


Barbara
-- 
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Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger

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Antwort: Deeper java problem

2009-10-06 Thread Michael Klaeschen 
Steve,

I do not think you should exec the java program with the name of the class 
library as the call parameter. Instead, the library "HelloWorld.class" 
will contain one class with a main-function (method as java folks say) and 
may be other classes. Ask the provider of the class library about this 
class name. The class name is to be passed to the java program for 
execution. For example:

file /u/USERID/Hello.java:
class MAIN {
   public static void main(String args[]) {
  do something like System.out.println("Hello World");
   }
}

Then compile the source to the class-file:
javac /u/USERID/Hello.java 
will result in /u/USERID/Hello.class
(May be you need a couple of extra parameters for this to happen 
correctly.)

These two steps are done from the development team. They will tell you 
about the name of the "main" class.

Then run the class with java -cp /u/USERID MAIN

Like the "-cp" parameter you can provide various other parameters to tune 
the java program's behaviour. One of those is -Dfile.encoding=whatever. 
For JZOS, these parameters are defined in the symbol IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS.

Cheers 
Michael




Steve Comstock  
Gesendet von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
06.10.2009 14:09
Bitte antworten an
IBM Mainframe Discussion List 


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IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
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Deeper java problem






Replying to my first post about a Java compile
program, several people suggested it was a
codepage issue. And that was my first thought,
too, since I had been experimenting with
various code pages in my emulator.

However, with codepages matching in both the
old and the new system, I cut and pasted from
the old to the new and reran the compile. Same
result.

Michael Klaeschen suggested I check file.encoding
and the symbol IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS, but I can't find
those. I'm just issuing the javac command directly
under omvs.

More disturbing, I did a cd to the JAVA_HOME directory:

cd /u/Java6_31/J6.0

And an 'ls' showed:

-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP  425 Jun  3 22:39 HelloWorld.class
drwxr-xr-x   2 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Mar 14  2008 IBM
-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP6 Jun  3 22:39 JDK_INSTALL_OK
drwxr-xr-x   4 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:39 bin
-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP  833 Mar 22  2009 copyright
drwxr-xr-x  13 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:36 demo
drwxr-xr-x  16 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:39 docs
drwxr-xr-x   3 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:36 include
drwxr-xr-x  13 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:35 lib
-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP44534 Jun  3 22:39 license_en.txt
drwxr-xr-x   3 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:37 mvstools
-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP36370 Jun  3 22:40 notices.txt
-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP 1694 May 29 09:41 readmefirst.zos.txt
-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP  9084677 Jun  3 22:19 src.zip
drwxr-xr-x   5 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:40 standard

But when I tried to run the sample, here is what I got:

java HelloWorld.class
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: 
HelloWorld.class
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: HelloWorld.class
 at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:419)
 at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:643)
 at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:345)
 at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:609)
Could not find the main class: HelloWorld.class.  Program will exit.

just to be sure, I looked at PATH and CLASSPATH:

printenv PATH
/u/Java6_31/J6.0/bin:/usr/lpp/pli/bin:/usr/lpp/internet/bin:/usr/lpp/cobol/bin:/bin:.
 



printenv CLASSPATH
/u/scomsto/CGI:/u/scomsto/public_html/Java:/usr/lpp/internet/server_root/cgi-bin:/u/Java6_31/J6.0:/u/Java6_31/J6.0/src.zip:.
 



In both cases, the '.' at the end should ensure a search
in the current working directory. And I was running in
the JAVA_HOME directory. And I can see the class right
there before me.

Any suggestions at this point?


-- 

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

   z/OS Application development made easier
 * Our classes include
+ How things work
+ Programming examples with realistic applications
+ Starter / skeleton code
+ Complete working programs
+ Useful utilities and subroutines
+ Tips and techniques

==> Ask about being added to our opt-in list:  <==
==>   * Early announcement of new courses  <==
==>   * Early announcement of new techincal papers <==
==>   * Early announcement of new promotions   <==

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send email to lists..

Re: Deeper java problem

2009-10-06 Thread Barkow, Eileen 
The command is java HelloWorld   - leave out the .class

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Steve Comstock
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 8:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Deeper java problem

Replying to my first post about a Java compile
program, several people suggested it was a
codepage issue. And that was my first thought,
too, since I had been experimenting with
various code pages in my emulator.

However, with codepages matching in both the
old and the new system, I cut and pasted from
the old to the new and reran the compile. Same
result.

Michael Klaeschen suggested I check file.encoding
and the symbol IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS, but I can't find
those. I'm just issuing the javac command directly
under omvs.

More disturbing, I did a cd to the JAVA_HOME directory:

cd /u/Java6_31/J6.0

And an 'ls' showed:

-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP  425 Jun  3 22:39 HelloWorld.class
drwxr-xr-x   2 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Mar 14  2008 IBM
-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP6 Jun  3 22:39 JDK_INSTALL_OK
drwxr-xr-x   4 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:39 bin
-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP  833 Mar 22  2009 copyright
drwxr-xr-x  13 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:36 demo
drwxr-xr-x  16 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:39 docs
drwxr-xr-x   3 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:36 include
drwxr-xr-x  13 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:35 lib
-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP44534 Jun  3 22:39 license_en.txt
drwxr-xr-x   3 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:37 mvstools
-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP36370 Jun  3 22:40 notices.txt
-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP 1694 May 29 09:41 readmefirst.zos.txt
-rw-r--r--   1 TCPIPIPGROUP  9084677 Jun  3 22:19 src.zip
drwxr-xr-x   5 TCPIPIPGROUP 8192 Jun  3 22:40 standard

But when I tried to run the sample, here is what I got:

java HelloWorld.class
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: HelloWorld.class
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: HelloWorld.class
 at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:419)
 at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:643)
 at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:345)
 at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:609)
Could not find the main class: HelloWorld.class.  Program will exit.

just to be sure, I looked at PATH and CLASSPATH:

printenv PATH
/u/Java6_31/J6.0/bin:/usr/lpp/pli/bin:/usr/lpp/internet/bin:/usr/lpp/cobol/bin:/bin:.
 


printenv CLASSPATH
/u/scomsto/CGI:/u/scomsto/public_html/Java:/usr/lpp/internet/server_root/cgi-bin:/u/Java6_31/J6.0:/u/Java6_31/J6.0/src.zip:.
 


In both cases, the '.' at the end should ensure a search
in the current working directory. And I was running in
the JAVA_HOME directory. And I can see the class right
there before me.

Any suggestions at this point?


-- 

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

   z/OS Application development made easier
 * Our classes include
+ How things work
+ Programming examples with realistic applications
+ Starter / skeleton code
+ Complete working programs
+ Useful utilities and subroutines
+ Tips and techniques

==> Ask about being added to our opt-in list:  <==
==>   * Early announcement of new courses  <==
==>   * Early announcement of new techincal papers <==
==>   * Early announcement of new promotions   <==

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Re: Deeper java problem

2009-10-06 Thread Steve Comstock 

Barkow, Eileen wrote:

The command is java HelloWorld   - leave out the .class



Duh! You're right. And I knew that. Just wasn't thinking.
Guess it was a shallower Java problem, not a deeper one!

Thanks.

--

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

  z/OS Application development made easier
* Our classes include
   + How things work
   + Programming examples with realistic applications
   + Starter / skeleton code
   + Complete working programs
   + Useful utilities and subroutines
   + Tips and techniques

==> Ask about being added to our opt-in list:  <==
==>   * Early announcement of new courses  <==
==>   * Early announcement of new techincal papers <==
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Re: Deeper java problem

2009-10-06 Thread Rob Schramm 
Steve,

Just for the sake of elimination and general distrust.. 

What happens if you do 

/u/Java6_31/J6.0/bin/java /u/Java6_31/J6.0/HelloWorld.class

java /u/Java6_31/J6.0/HelloWorld.class

Personally, I try to always start at the lowest point and work my way up. 
When it is weird, trust nothing.

-Rob


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Re: Deeper java problem

2009-10-06 Thread Rob Schramm 
*Ouch*
-Rob

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Re: Deeper java problem

2009-10-06 Thread Scott Ford 
I just ran into a java issue doing an install that required. The HFS file was 
not mountedi had to mount it in USS and then tried it and it worked fine.
 
Scott J Ford
 





From: "Barkow, Eileen" 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 9:07:35 AM
Subject: Re: Deeper java problem

The command is java HelloWorld  - leave out the .class

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Steve Comstock
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 8:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Deeper java problem

Replying to my first post about a Java compile
program, several people suggested it was a
codepage issue. And that was my first thought,
too, since I had been experimenting with
various code pages in my emulator.

However, with codepages matching in both the
old and the new system, I cut and pasted from
the old to the new and reran the compile. Same
result.

Michael Klaeschen suggested I check file.encoding
and the symbol IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS, but I can't find
those. I'm just issuing the javac command directly
under omvs.

More disturbing, I did a cd to the JAVA_HOME directory:

cd /u/Java6_31/J6.0

And an 'ls' showed:

-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIP    IPGROUP      425 Jun  3 22:39 HelloWorld.class
drwxr-xr-x  2 TCPIP    IPGROUP    8192 Mar 14  2008 IBM
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIP    IPGROUP        6 Jun  3 22:39 JDK_INSTALL_OK
drwxr-xr-x  4 TCPIP    IPGROUP    8192 Jun  3 22:39 bin
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIP    IPGROUP      833 Mar 22  2009 copyright
drwxr-xr-x  13 TCPIP    IPGROUP    8192 Jun  3 22:36 demo
drwxr-xr-x  16 TCPIP    IPGROUP    8192 Jun  3 22:39 docs
drwxr-xr-x  3 TCPIP    IPGROUP    8192 Jun  3 22:36 include
drwxr-xr-x  13 TCPIP    IPGROUP    8192 Jun  3 22:35 lib
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIP    IPGROUP    44534 Jun  3 22:39 license_en.txt
drwxr-xr-x  3 TCPIP    IPGROUP    8192 Jun  3 22:37 mvstools
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIP    IPGROUP    36370 Jun  3 22:40 notices.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIP    IPGROUP    1694 May 29 09:41 readmefirst.zos.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIP    IPGROUP  9084677 Jun  3 22:19 src.zip
drwxr-xr-x  5 TCPIP    IPGROUP    8192 Jun  3 22:40 standard

But when I tried to run the sample, here is what I got:

java HelloWorld.class
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: HelloWorld.class
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: HelloWorld.class
        at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:419)
        at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:643)
        at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:345)
        at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:609)
Could not find the main class: HelloWorld.class.  Program will exit.

just to be sure, I looked at PATH and CLASSPATH:

printenv PATH
/u/Java6_31/J6.0/bin:/usr/lpp/pli/bin:/usr/lpp/internet/bin:/usr/lpp/cobol/bin:/bin:.
 


printenv CLASSPATH
/u/scomsto/CGI:/u/scomsto/public_html/Java:/usr/lpp/internet/server_root/cgi-bin:/u/Java6_31/J6.0:/u/Java6_31/J6.0/src.zip:.
 


In both cases, the '.' at the end should ensure a search
in the current working directory. And I was running in
the JAVA_HOME directory. And I can see the class right
there before me.

Any suggestions at this point?


-- 

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

  z/OS Application development made easier
    * Our classes include
        + How things work
        + Programming examples with realistic applications
        + Starter / skeleton code
        + Complete working programs
        + Useful utilities and subroutines
        + Tips and techniques

==> Ask about being added to our opt-in list:              <==
==>  * Early announcement of new courses                  <==
==>  * Early announcement of new techincal papers        <==
==>  * Early announcement of new promotions              <==

--
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Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

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Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: Deeper java problem

2009-10-06 Thread Scott Ford 
IBM 
Here is the readme from JAVA 5.0 on z/OS 1.10 ...

IBM 31-BIT SDK FOR Z/OS JAVA 2 V5
---
The catalog for IBM 31-BIT SDK FOR Z/OS JAVA 2 V5 is CATALOG.JVA500 located
on VDJVAF  Aliases in the catalog are JVA500
---
   
  | Feature | Private library  |
  |_|__|
  | HFS mount /usr/lpp/java    | 
JVA500.HFS  |
  |_|__|
 
 MOUNT FILESYSTEM('JVA500.HFS')
   TYPE(HFS) MODE(READ)
   MOUNTPOINT('/usr/lpp/java')

Additional Install Information:
6.2  ACTIVATING IBM 31-BIT SDK FOR Z/OS, V5
6.2.1  HFS EXECUTION
If you choose to have the HFS in which you have installed IBM 31-bit
further tasks are required to accomplish this.
IBM 31-bit SDK for z/OS, V5 is invoked as a command under the UNIX
System Services shell. The path environment variable must be updated
to point to the Java executables so that the command will be found.
This can be done with the following shell command:
  export PATH=/usr/lpp/java/J5.0/bin:$PATH
The export command references the default path into which IBM 31-bit
SDK for z/OS, V5 was installed. If you changed the default path,
change the export command accordingly.
Alternatively, you can add the IBM 31-bit SDK for z/OS, V5 path to the
system path variable contained in "/etc/profile".
Once the path environment variable has been set, you can enter the
following shell commands:
  java
  java -version
IBM 31-bit SDK for z/OS, V5 is successfully installed if the "java"
command responds with a summary of available options and the version
option responds with the current version of the IBM 31-bit SDK for
z/OS, V5 code.

 

This version wasnt mounted and the directory entries on USS empty...

Scott J Ford
 





From: Scott Ford 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 1:51:07 PM
Subject: Re: Deeper java problem

I just ran into a java issue doing an install that required. The HFS file was 
not mountedi had to mount it in USS and then tried it and it worked fine.
 
Scott J Ford
 





From: "Barkow, Eileen" 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 9:07:35 AM
Subject: Re: Deeper java problem

The command is java HelloWorld  - leave out the .class

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Steve Comstock
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 8:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Deeper java problem

Replying to my first post about a Java compile
program, several people suggested it was a
codepage issue. And that was my first thought,
too, since I had been experimenting with
various code pages in my emulator.

However, with codepages matching in both the
old and the new system, I cut and pasted from
the old to the new and reran the compile. Same
result.

Michael Klaeschen suggested I check file.encoding
and the symbol IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS, but I can't find
those. I'm just issuing the javac command directly
under omvs.

More disturbing, I did a cd to the JAVA_HOME directory:

cd /u/Java6_31/J6.0

And an 'ls' showed:

-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIP    IPGROUP      425 Jun  3 22:39 HelloWorld.class
drwxr-xr-x  2 TCPIP    IPGROUP    8192 Mar 14  2008 IBM
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIP    IPGROUP        6 Jun  3 22:39 JDK_INSTALL_OK
drwxr-xr-x  4 TCPIP    IPGROUP    8192 Jun  3 22:39 bin
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIP    IPGROUP      833 Mar 22  2009 copyright
drwxr-xr-x  13 TCPIP    IPGROUP    8192 Jun  3 22:36 demo
drwxr-xr-x  16 TCPIP    IPGROUP    8192 Jun  3 22:39 docs
drwxr-xr-x  3 TCPIP    IPGROUP    8192 Jun  3 22:36 include
drwxr-xr-x  13 TCPIP    IPGROUP    8192 Jun  3 22:35 lib
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIP    IPGROUP    44534 Jun  3 22:39 license_en.txt
drwxr-xr-x  3 TCPIP    IPGROUP    8192 Jun  3 22:37 mvstools
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIP    IPGROUP    36370 Jun  3 22:40 notices.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIP    IPGROUP    1694 May 29 09:41 readmefirst.zos.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIP    IPGROUP  9084677 Jun  3 22:19 src.zip
drwxr-xr-x  5 TCPIP    IPGROUP    8192 Jun  3 22:40 standard

But when I tried to run the sample, here is what I got:

java HelloWorld.class
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: HelloWorld.class
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: HelloWorld.class
        at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:419)
        at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:643)
        at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:345)
        at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:609)
Could not find the main class: HelloWorld.class.  Program will exit.

Re: Deeper java problem

2009-10-06 Thread Steve Comstock 

Top posting:

We are running on an IBM system at Dallas. They do the
configuring. We can make requests but we pretty much
have to work with the system as they give it to us.

The zFS files are all mounted. "java -version" works fine.
Compiles seem to work if I include the 'cp' flag, which
makes no sense to me.

Thanks for your suggestions but I don't think that's
where our problem lies.


Scott Ford wrote:
IBM 
Here is the readme from JAVA 5.0 on z/OS 1.10 ...


IBM 31-BIT SDK FOR Z/OS JAVA 2 V5
---
The catalog for IBM 31-BIT SDK FOR Z/OS JAVA 2 V5 is CATALOG.JVA500 located
on VDJVAF  Aliases in the catalog are JVA500
---
   
  | Feature | Private library  |
  |_|__|
  | HFS mount /usr/lpp/java| JVA500.HFS 
 |
  |_|__|
 
 MOUNT FILESYSTEM('JVA500.HFS')

   TYPE(HFS) MODE(READ)
   MOUNTPOINT('/usr/lpp/java')

Additional Install Information:
6.2  ACTIVATING IBM 31-BIT SDK FOR Z/OS, V5
6.2.1  HFS EXECUTION
If you choose to have the HFS in which you have installed IBM 31-bit
further tasks are required to accomplish this.
IBM 31-bit SDK for z/OS, V5 is invoked as a command under the UNIX
System Services shell. The path environment variable must be updated
to point to the Java executables so that the command will be found.
This can be done with the following shell command:
  export PATH=/usr/lpp/java/J5.0/bin:$PATH
The export command references the default path into which IBM 31-bit
SDK for z/OS, V5 was installed. If you changed the default path,
change the export command accordingly.
Alternatively, you can add the IBM 31-bit SDK for z/OS, V5 path to the
system path variable contained in "/etc/profile".
Once the path environment variable has been set, you can enter the
following shell commands:
  java
  java -version
IBM 31-bit SDK for z/OS, V5 is successfully installed if the "java"
command responds with a summary of available options and the version
option responds with the current version of the IBM 31-bit SDK for
z/OS, V5 code.

 


This version wasnt mounted and the directory entries on USS empty...

Scott J Ford
 






From: Scott Ford 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 1:51:07 PM
Subject: Re: Deeper java problem

I just ran into a java issue doing an install that required. The HFS file was 
not mountedi had to mount it in USS and then tried it and it worked fine.
 
Scott J Ford
 






From: "Barkow, Eileen" 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 9:07:35 AM
Subject: Re: Deeper java problem

The command is java HelloWorld  - leave out the .class

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Steve Comstock
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 8:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Deeper java problem

Replying to my first post about a Java compile
program, several people suggested it was a
codepage issue. And that was my first thought,
too, since I had been experimenting with
various code pages in my emulator.

However, with codepages matching in both the
old and the new system, I cut and pasted from
the old to the new and reran the compile. Same
result.

Michael Klaeschen suggested I check file.encoding
and the symbol IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS, but I can't find
those. I'm just issuing the javac command directly
under omvs.

More disturbing, I did a cd to the JAVA_HOME directory:

cd /u/Java6_31/J6.0

And an 'ls' showed:

-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIPIPGROUP  425 Jun  3 22:39 HelloWorld.class
drwxr-xr-x  2 TCPIPIPGROUP8192 Mar 14  2008 IBM
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIPIPGROUP6 Jun  3 22:39 JDK_INSTALL_OK
drwxr-xr-x  4 TCPIPIPGROUP8192 Jun  3 22:39 bin
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIPIPGROUP  833 Mar 22  2009 copyright
drwxr-xr-x  13 TCPIPIPGROUP8192 Jun  3 22:36 demo
drwxr-xr-x  16 TCPIPIPGROUP8192 Jun  3 22:39 docs
drwxr-xr-x  3 TCPIPIPGROUP8192 Jun  3 22:36 include
drwxr-xr-x  13 TCPIPIPGROUP8192 Jun  3 22:35 lib
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIPIPGROUP44534 Jun  3 22:39 license_en.txt
drwxr-xr-x  3 TCPIPIPGROUP8192 Jun  3 22:37 mvstools
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIPIPGROUP36370 Jun  3 22:40 notices.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIPIPGROUP1694 May 29 09:41 readmefirst.zos.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIPIPGROUP  9084677 Jun  3 22:19 src.zip
drwxr-xr-x  5 TCPIPIPGROUP8192 Jun  3 22:40 standard

But when I tried to run the sample, here is what I got:

java HelloWorld.class
Exception in thread "main"

Re: Deeper java problem

2009-10-06 Thread Scott Ford 
This was in a pre-canned z/OS ADCD system...I just wanted to offer any help I 
could...
 
Scott J Ford
 





From: Steve Comstock 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 2:07:04 PM
Subject: Re: Deeper java problem

Top posting:

We are running on an IBM system at Dallas. They do the
configuring. We can make requests but we pretty much
have to work with the system as they give it to us.

The zFS files are all mounted. "java -version" works fine.
Compiles seem to work if I include the 'cp' flag, which
makes no sense to me.

Thanks for your suggestions but I don't think that's
where our problem lies.


Scott Ford wrote:
> IBM Here is the readme from JAVA 5.0 on z/OS 1.10 ...
> 
> IBM 31-BIT SDK FOR Z/OS JAVA 2 V5
> ---
> The catalog for IBM 31-BIT SDK FOR Z/OS JAVA 2 V5 is CATALOG.JVA500 located
> on VDJVAF  Aliases in the catalog are JVA500
> ---
>    
>  | Feature                        | Private library      |
>  |_|__|
>  | HFS mount /usr/lpp/java                            | JVA500.HFS            
>          |
>  |_|__|
>  MOUNT FILESYSTEM('JVA500.HFS')
>        TYPE(HFS) MODE(READ)
>        MOUNTPOINT('/usr/lpp/java')
> 
> Additional Install Information:
> 6.2  ACTIVATING IBM 31-BIT SDK FOR Z/OS, V5
> 6.2.1  HFS EXECUTION
> If you choose to have the HFS in which you have installed IBM 31-bit
> further tasks are required to accomplish this.
> IBM 31-bit SDK for z/OS, V5 is invoked as a command under the UNIX
> System Services shell. The path environment variable must be updated
> to point to the Java executables so that the command will be found.
> This can be done with the following shell command:
>  export PATH=/usr/lpp/java/J5.0/bin:$PATH
> The export command references the default path into which IBM 31-bit
> SDK for z/OS, V5 was installed. If you changed the default path,
> change the export command accordingly.
> Alternatively, you can add the IBM 31-bit SDK for z/OS, V5 path to the
> system path variable contained in "/etc/profile".
> Once the path environment variable has been set, you can enter the
> following shell commands:
>  java
>  java -version
> IBM 31-bit SDK for z/OS, V5 is successfully installed if the "java"
> command responds with a summary of available options and the version
> option responds with the current version of the IBM 31-bit SDK for
> z/OS, V5 code.
> 
>  
> This version wasnt mounted and the directory entries on USS empty...
> 
> Scott J Ford
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Scott Ford 
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 1:51:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Deeper java problem
> 
> I just ran into a java issue doing an install that required. The HFS file was 
> not mountedi had to mount it in USS and then tried it and it worked fine.
>  Scott J Ford
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Barkow, Eileen" 
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 9:07:35 AM
> Subject: Re: Deeper java problem
> 
> The command is java HelloWorld  - leave out the .class
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf 
> Of Steve Comstock
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 8:10 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Deeper java problem
> 
> Replying to my first post about a Java compile
> program, several people suggested it was a
> codepage issue. And that was my first thought,
> too, since I had been experimenting with
> various code pages in my emulator.
> 
> However, with codepages matching in both the
> old and the new system, I cut and pasted from
> the old to the new and reran the compile. Same
> result.
> 
> Michael Klaeschen suggested I check file.encoding
> and the symbol IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS, but I can't find
> those. I'm just issuing the javac command directly
> under omvs.
> 
> More disturbing, I did a cd to the JAVA_HOME directory:
> 
> cd /u/Java6_31/J6.0
> 
> And an 'ls' showed:
> 
> -rw-r--r--  1 TCPIP    IPGROUP      425 Jun  3 22:39 HelloWorld.class
> drwxr-xr-x  2 TCPIP    IPGROUP    8192 Mar 14  2008 IBM
> -rw-r--r--  1 TCPIP    IPGROUP        6 Jun  3 22:39 JDK_INSTALL_OK
> drwxr-xr-x  4 TCPIP    IPGROUP    8192 Jun  3 22:39 bin
> -rw-r--r--  1 TCPIP    IPGROUP      833 Mar 22

Re: Deeper java problem

2009-10-06 Thread Steve Comstock 

Scott Ford wrote:

This was in a pre-canned z/OS ADCD system...I just wanted to offer any help I 
could...


I understand, and appreciate it. We were in the same
boat before switching to the Dallas system. And,
overall, I enjoy the Dallas environment over the
ADCD one.


 
Scott J Ford
 






From: Steve Comstock 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 2:07:04 PM
Subject: Re: Deeper java problem

Top posting:

We are running on an IBM system at Dallas. They do the
configuring. We can make requests but we pretty much
have to work with the system as they give it to us.

The zFS files are all mounted. "java -version" works fine.
Compiles seem to work if I include the 'cp' flag, which
makes no sense to me.

Thanks for your suggestions but I don't think that's
where our problem lies.


Scott Ford wrote:

IBM Here is the readme from JAVA 5.0 on z/OS 1.10 ...

IBM 31-BIT SDK FOR Z/OS JAVA 2 V5
---
The catalog for IBM 31-BIT SDK FOR Z/OS JAVA 2 V5 is CATALOG.JVA500 located
on VDJVAF  Aliases in the catalog are JVA500
---

  | Feature| Private library  |
  |_|__|
  | HFS mount /usr/lpp/java| JVA500.HFS 
 |
  |_|__|
  MOUNT FILESYSTEM('JVA500.HFS')
TYPE(HFS) MODE(READ)
MOUNTPOINT('/usr/lpp/java')

Additional Install Information:
6.2  ACTIVATING IBM 31-BIT SDK FOR Z/OS, V5
6.2.1  HFS EXECUTION
If you choose to have the HFS in which you have installed IBM 31-bit
further tasks are required to accomplish this.
IBM 31-bit SDK for z/OS, V5 is invoked as a command under the UNIX
System Services shell. The path environment variable must be updated
to point to the Java executables so that the command will be found.
This can be done with the following shell command:
  export PATH=/usr/lpp/java/J5.0/bin:$PATH
The export command references the default path into which IBM 31-bit
SDK for z/OS, V5 was installed. If you changed the default path,
change the export command accordingly.
Alternatively, you can add the IBM 31-bit SDK for z/OS, V5 path to the
system path variable contained in "/etc/profile".
Once the path environment variable has been set, you can enter the
following shell commands:
  java
  java -version
IBM 31-bit SDK for z/OS, V5 is successfully installed if the "java"
command responds with a summary of available options and the version
option responds with the current version of the IBM 31-bit SDK for
z/OS, V5 code.

  
This version wasnt mounted and the directory entries on USS empty...


Scott J Ford
  





From: Scott Ford 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 1:51:07 PM
Subject: Re: Deeper java problem

I just ran into a java issue doing an install that required. The HFS file was 
not mountedi had to mount it in USS and then tried it and it worked fine.
  Scott J Ford
  





From: "Barkow, Eileen" 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 9:07:35 AM
Subject: Re: Deeper java problem

The command is java HelloWorld  - leave out the .class

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Steve Comstock
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 8:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Deeper java problem

Replying to my first post about a Java compile
program, several people suggested it was a
codepage issue. And that was my first thought,
too, since I had been experimenting with
various code pages in my emulator.

However, with codepages matching in both the
old and the new system, I cut and pasted from
the old to the new and reran the compile. Same
result.

Michael Klaeschen suggested I check file.encoding
and the symbol IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS, but I can't find
those. I'm just issuing the javac command directly
under omvs.

More disturbing, I did a cd to the JAVA_HOME directory:

cd /u/Java6_31/J6.0

And an 'ls' showed:

-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIPIPGROUP  425 Jun  3 22:39 HelloWorld.class
drwxr-xr-x  2 TCPIPIPGROUP8192 Mar 14  2008 IBM
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIPIPGROUP6 Jun  3 22:39 JDK_INSTALL_OK
drwxr-xr-x  4 TCPIPIPGROUP8192 Jun  3 22:39 bin
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIPIPGROUP  833 Mar 22  2009 copyright
drwxr-xr-x  13 TCPIPIPGROUP8192 Jun  3 22:36 demo
drwxr-xr-x  16 TCPIPIPGROUP8192 Jun  3 22:39 docs
drwxr-xr-x  3 TCPIPIPGROUP8192 Jun  3 22:36 include
drwxr-xr-x  13 TCPIPIPGROUP8192 Jun  3 22:35 lib
-rw-r--r--  1 TCPIPIPGROUP44534 Jun  3 22:39 licens

Java problem one solved!

2009-10-06 Thread Steve Comstock 

Well, I wanted everyone to know the tech rep from the
Dallas center figured out why I had trouble with my
java compiles, and why adding the 'cp' flag allowed
compiles to work:


"I noticed '/u/Java6_31/J6.0/src.zip' as part of your CLASSPATH!
I reset the CLASSPATH to the same as you have it without the
src.zip file.  The compile worked fine.  The failure must be due
to the src.zip containing files that are in ASCII!  The java
compiler is reading the CLASSPATH files and choking on the files
in src.zip.

If you need the files in src.zip in your classpath during compiles you
will have to convert them before you zip them or unzip them and convert
them.  If you don't need them in your CLASSPATH during compiles you need to
remove src.zip from your CLASSPATH.

The '-cp .' circumvented the problem because it reset the CLASSPATH for
the compile to just the current working directory."


Very cool, no? So I don't even remember why the source.zip files were
in my CLASSPATH, but I took that out of /etc/profile very fast! Well
done!


--

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

  z/OS Application development made easier
* Our classes include
   + How things work
   + Programming examples with realistic applications
   + Starter / skeleton code
   + Complete working programs
   + Useful utilities and subroutines
   + Tips and techniques

==> Ask about being added to our opt-in list:  <==
==>   * Early announcement of new courses  <==
==>   * Early announcement of new techincal papers <==
==>   * Early announcement of new promotions   <==

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-27 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) 
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 12/13/2007
   at 11:27 AM, Barbara Nitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

>This really rubs me the wrong way, not because it isn't true,

Of course it's true, it's just not a valid excuse for refusing to work on
a problem when it isn't possible to provide a test case. The quote doesn't
claim that it's impossible to solve a problem without a test case, just
that it's easier with one.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-13 Thread McKown, John 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barbara Nitz
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 4:28 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Java Problem Analysis
> 
> 
> Quote from the diagnosis book:
> 
> "It is easier for IBM Service to solve a problem when a test 
> case is available. Include a test case with your problem 
> report wherever possible."
> 
> This really rubs me the wrong way, not because it isn't true, 
> but because to me it sounds like justification why these 
> highly intermittend, non-reproducible problems are never 
> found! To someone used to z/OS and finding the bug with the 
> one and only dump ever produced (because it is a 
> serialization problem of some sort, possibly caused by the 
> fact that multiple processors can execute the same 
> instruction at exactly the same time), this sounds like an 
> excuse, proven by the way these problems are always handled, 
> due to lack of skill and knowledge..
> 
> 
> Barbara
> -- 

That is a "good one"! And I agree with you 100%. Any programmer worthly
of the name can fix a problem which is 100% reproducible from a given
set of inputs. The problems usually occur in a multiuser/multitasking
scenario. 

--
John McKown
Senior Systems Programmer
HealthMarkets
Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
Administrative Services Group
Information Technology

The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged
and/or confidential.  It is for intended addressee(s) only.  If you are
not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure,
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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-13 Thread Edward Jaffe 

Barbara Nitz wrote:

Quote from the diagnosis book:

"It is easier for IBM Service to solve a problem when a test case is available. 
Include a test case with your problem report wherever possible."

This really rubs me the wrong way, not because it isn't true, but because to me 
it sounds like justification why these highly intermittend, non-reproducible 
problems are never found! To someone used to z/OS and finding the bug with the 
one and only dump ever produced (because it is a serialization problem of some 
sort, possibly caused by the fact that multiple processors can execute the same 
instruction at exactly the same time), this sounds like an excuse, proven by 
the way these problems are always handled, due to lack of skill and knowledge..
  


Exactly! I've run into *massive* skills shortage problems trying to get 
the Library Server for z/OS fixed.


When working one problem in particular, I was training *them* on how I/O 
works in MVS! On a telephone conference call, they were suggesting I do 
things that make sense only on a PC. (Can't remember the specifics. But, 
it was laughable!) And, try as I might, I simply could not understand 
one of the guys at all -- his accent was so heavy. And, the rest of them 
pretended not to notice. (That was a language skills shortage. Equally 
frustrating. But, perhaps I digress...) After a year of back and forth, 
I finally just decided not to use the "broken" function because it was 
clear they could/would never fix it. I judged them incapable of doing so.


I sent a dump for another problem with the same group. The dump had 
"everything in it but the kitchen sink" and the response came back, "The 
dump was not helpful to the developer. We need to try to recreate in 
house." Translation? "The developer does not know how to read the dump. 
He only knows how to reproduce bugs under his debugger." I got so 
frustrated by this, I demanded a conference call with two levels of 
management for this group. While the managers readily acknowledged their 
skills shortage, and tried to placate me by telling about plans to add 
more z/OS-centric people to the mix, they _actually believed_ that 
chasing dumps was unproductive. They told me most of their support 
effort involves wading through source code to see what might be going 
wrong. (No wonder they move so slowly!!!) I almost laughed out loud! 
Their dump reading skill shortage was so acute, the managers were 
convinced that dumps were useless clumps of bits & bytes. Virtual boat 
anchors.


There's not much you can do when the skills shortage affects all levels 
of an organization. I tried my best to convince them that effective dump 
analysis is what makes z/OS a robust platform and that such skills 
should be emphasized. I doubt they ever fully understood the point I was 
trying to make.


In the end, we agreed to send, and they agreed to accept, licensed and 
proprietary documentation (softcopy books) from which they were finally 
able to reproduce the problem locally on a PC. Sad.


--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
Los Angeles, CA 90045
310-338-0400 x318
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-14 Thread Patrick Falcone 
I can sympathize Ed. We were on the edge with WebSphere on z/OS when I believe 
the freeware, v3.02, came out in 2001 and we had quite a time with problems and 
support on all sides including my own due to lack of practical experience. When 
I recommended, in a call to developers at our corporate site, that we shoot an 
early problem with some debug code I was told that they were not going to try 
that approach. When IBM got involved they made the same recommendation and all 
of a sudden the developers are putting in the code. Ended up being a resource 
spin condition due to mishandling of a double mouse click on the same screen. 
No dumps were read during this problem and I don't remember why.
   
  I do believe the skills now exist, master skills, although they are probably 
in very short supply. Ran into another more intermittent problem, this took 
about 14 - 16 months, with a storage leak/creep in the heap and it took literal 
table pounding after several months to get people with significant knowledge on 
the problem. Once Watson and Hursley were put on it took about a month to 6 
weeks, the problem was very intermittent and they had requested additional dump 
options, before they finally pinned it down to internal table 
validation/mismatch. Even after looking at the dump they were not exactly sure 
where the problem was but knew enough to write some debug code to finally trap 
it. This last group of folks were very good. This might be an area I'd like to 
get into at some point since I have found the z/OS WebSphere stuff to be very 
interesting, will work for food.

Edward Jaffe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
  Exactly! I've run into *massive* skills shortage problems trying to get 
the Library Server for z/OS fixed.

When working one problem in particular, I was training *them* on how I/O 
works in MVS! On a telephone conference call, they were suggesting I do 
things that make sense only on a PC. (Can't remember the specifics. But, 
it was laughable!) And, try as I might, I simply could not understand 
one of the guys at all -- his accent was so heavy. And, the rest of them 
pretended not to notice. (That was a language skills shortage. Equally 
frustrating. But, perhaps I digress...) After a year of back and forth, 
I finally just decided not to use the "broken" function because it was 
clear they could/would never fix it. I judged them incapable of doing so.

I sent a dump for another problem with the same group. The dump had 
"everything in it but the kitchen sink" and the response came back, "The 
dump was not helpful to the developer. We need to try to recreate in 
house." Translation? "The developer does not know how to read the dump. 
He only knows how to reproduce bugs under his debugger." I got so 
frustrated by this, I demanded a conference call with two levels of 
management for this group. While the managers readily acknowledged their 
skills shortage, and tried to placate me by telling about plans to add 
more z/OS-centric people to the mix, they _actually believed_ that 
chasing dumps was unproductive. They told me most of their support 
effort involves wading through source code to see what might be going 
wrong. (No wonder they move so slowly!!!) I almost laughed out loud! 
Their dump reading skill shortage was so acute, the managers were 
convinced that dumps were useless clumps of bits & bytes. Virtual boat 
anchors.

There's not much you can do when the skills shortage affects all levels 
of an organization. I tried my best to convince them that effective dump 
analysis is what makes z/OS a robust platform and that such skills 
should be emphasized. I doubt they ever fully understood the point I was 
trying to make.

In the end, we agreed to send, and they agreed to accept, licensed and 
proprietary documentation (softcopy books) from which they were finally 
able to reproduce the problem locally on a PC. Sad.

-- 
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
Los Angeles, CA 90045
310-338-0400 x318
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-16 Thread Barbara Nitz 
Ed,

>There's not much you can do when the skills shortage affects all levels
>of an organization. I tried my best to convince them that effective dump
>analysis is what makes z/OS a robust platform and that such skills
>should be emphasized. I doubt they ever fully understood the point I was
>trying to make.

I guess misery really does love company! I feel better that I am not the only 
one banging his/her head against a wall.

Barbara 
-- 
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Browser-Versionen downloaden: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/browser

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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-17 Thread Rick Fochtman 


I guess misery really does love company! I feel better that I am not the 
only one banging his/her head against a wall.

-
Mighty convoluted wall; even reaches here. Can you hear the thumping 
from here??


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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-17 Thread Aaron Walker 
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:27:45 +0100, Barbara Nitz  wrote:

>Quote from the diagnosis book:
>
>"It is easier for IBM Service to solve a problem when a test case is 
available. Include a test case with your problem report wherever 
possible."
>
>This really rubs me the wrong way, not because it isn't true, but 
because to me it sounds like justification why these highly 
intermittend, non-reproducible problems are never found! To someone 
used to z/OS and finding the bug with the one and only dump ever 
produced (because it is a serialization problem of some sort, possibly 
caused by the fact that multiple processors can execute the same 
instruction at exactly the same time), this sounds like an excuse, 
proven by the way these problems are always handled, due to lack of 
skill and knowledge..
>
>
>Barbara


I can understand why you are upset, but I find IBM's statement 
reasonable.  For some reason, whittling down a problem to it's core is 
not the instinct of a lot of people.  They will have a huge J2EE 
application, doing 50 things at once, with multiple extraneous (are 
they?) errors, and they have one(?) error which is a show stopper.  
Then one has to wade through all the other errors which are present, 
trying to ignore them to get to the root of the problem.

So, I look at this at dumbing it down, and, unfortunately, highly 
justified.

And speaking of wacky software, I may be one of the few people who 
don't get these babies as emails - I use the web interface.  I'm using 
IE6, and when it displays full-width postings, often it will duplicate 
some of the words on the end of the line (Barbara's posting is an 
example).  I looked at the source HTML, and it looks fine.  When you 
select the text, the repeated words don't get hilighted.  Very odd.  I 
guess I should try with Firefox.

Aaron

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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-17 Thread Aaron Walker 
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:11:34 -0600, Aaron Walker 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>And speaking of wacky software, I may be one of the few people who
>don't get these babies as emails - I use the web interface.  I'm using
>IE6, and when it displays full-width postings, often it will duplicate
>some of the words on the end of the line (Barbara's posting is an
>example).  I looked at the source HTML, and it looks fine.  When you
>select the text, the repeated words don't get hilighted.  Very odd.  I
>guess I should try with Firefox.
>
>Aaron
>

Firefox works fine.  So it's IE.  Wonderful tools.

Aaron

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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-17 Thread Howard Brazee 
On 17 Dec 2007 07:24:45 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aaron Walker)
wrote:

>>And speaking of wacky software, I may be one of the few people who
>>don't get these babies as emails - I use the web interface.  I'm using
>>IE6, and when it displays full-width postings, often it will duplicate
>>some of the words on the end of the line (Barbara's posting is an
>>example).  I looked at the source HTML, and it looks fine.  When you
>>select the text, the repeated words don't get hilighted.  Very odd.  I
>>guess I should try with Firefox.
>>
>>Aaron
>>
>
>Firefox works fine.  So it's IE.  Wonderful tools.

And newsgroup readers are designed to read newsgroups.   Some handle
HTML better than others.

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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-17 Thread Glen Gasior 
I recall in 1988 having some software step on an idcams control block that
was part of chain that dynamically grew and shrunk depending on how the
dataset was accessed. It only happened about every three months and by the
time the traps were fine-tuned to catch it, the software was all replaced
and it stopped happening.

In the case of a changing data structure being overwritten by defective
code, if the problem cannot be reproduced it can be very difficult to
diagnose.


On 12/13/07, Barbara Nitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Quote from the diagnosis book:
>
> "It is easier for IBM Service to solve a problem when a test case is
> available. Include a test case with your problem report wherever possible."
>
> This really rubs me the wrong way, not because it isn't true, but because
> to me it sounds like justification why these highly intermittend,
> non-reproducible problems are never found! To someone used to z/OS and
> finding the bug with the one and only dump ever produced (because it is a
> serialization problem of some sort, possibly caused by the fact that
> multiple processors can execute the same instruction at exactly the same
> time), this sounds like an excuse, proven by the way these problems are
> always handled, due to lack of skill and knowledge..
>
> 
> Barbara
> --
> Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört?
> Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger
>
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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-17 Thread Glen Gasior 
Two very large mainframe DB2 shops last year were experiencing failures in
virtual coupling facilities under VM, they could not duplicate the problem
at all. By sheer coincidence, the problem was reproduced during system
verification test of WebSphere 6.0.1 and the VM people copied the entire
system to diagnose the problem.





On 12/13/07, Barbara Nitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Quote from the diagnosis book:
>
> "It is easier for IBM Service to solve a problem when a test case is
> available. Include a test case with your problem report wherever possible."
>
> This really rubs me the wrong way, not because it isn't true, but because
> to me it sounds like justification why these highly intermittend,
> non-reproducible problems are never found! To someone used to z/OS and
> finding the bug with the one and only dump ever produced (because it is a
> serialization problem of some sort, possibly caused by the fact that
> multiple processors can execute the same instruction at exactly the same
> time), this sounds like an excuse, proven by the way these problems are
> always handled, due to lack of skill and knowledge..
>
> 
> Barbara
> --
> Pt! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört?
> Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger
>
> --
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>

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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-18 Thread Michael Poil 
Having pretty much vowed not to get involved with this thread any more, I 
will have one last say.

My plan for 2008 is to see if I can get the idea of "official"courses 
and/or presentations on how to debug z/OS Java abends (tools, techniques), 
Out-of-Memory (Java and native),  how to read verbosegc etc. Obviously you 
may well get to the point where you need access to the code, which is 
where we come in, so that is as far as you go. If you had a wish list (it 
is almost Christmas after all), what would you like to see? 

Websphere have a really cool Technical Exchange Webcast site:

http://www-306.ibm.com/software/websphere/support/supp_tech.html

Very interesting presentations!  Maybe I need to talk to the owner. 

There are already presentations and even Redbooks out there that cover a 
fair percentage of this subject , but to my mind there is no real 
structure to locate them.

How do you guys look for Java stuff (outside the ever-present Google of 
course), how could IBM anchor this kind of information?

--
Mike Poil
Java z/OS Level 3 Service
IBM United Kingdom Limited, Hursley Park, Winchester SO21 2JN
Internal: 246824  External: +44 (0)1962 816824 
Java debugging: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/diagnosis/
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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-18 Thread Shane 
On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 10:02 +, Michael Poil wrote:

> How do you guys look for Java stuff (outside the ever-present Google of 
> course), how could IBM anchor this kind of information?

Both the z/OS and zfavorites (sic) (home-)pages have Java links - maybe
the latter is better setup for this.

It should be noted that my opinion of Java is well recorded in the
archives; however I am more than prepared to support anyone offering
access to potentially useful information.

Shane ...

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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-18 Thread McKown, John 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Poil
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 4:02 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Java Problem Analysis
> 
> 



> Out-of-Memory (Java and native),  how to read verbosegc etc. 
> Obviously you 
> may well get to the point where you need access to the code, which is 
> where we come in, so that is as far as you go. If you had a 
> wish list (it 
> is almost Christmas after all), what would you like to see? 

Since SUN is now open sourcing Java, I wonder if IBM will start
supplying the source to their port.



> 
> Mike Poil

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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-18 Thread Gray, Larry - Larry A 
NOTICE:
All information in and attached to the e-mail(s) below may be proprietary, 
confidential, privileged and otherwise protected from improper or erroneous 
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As a shop that mostly uses java under WAS, I would suggest having a copy
of the links off the WAS pages.  

Larry Gray
Large Systems Engineering
Lowe's Companies
336-658-7944

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Shane
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 5:24 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Java Problem Analysis

On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 10:02 +, Michael Poil wrote:

> How do you guys look for Java stuff (outside the ever-present Google 
> of course), how could IBM anchor this kind of information?

Both the z/OS and zfavorites (sic) (home-)pages have Java links - maybe
the latter is better setup for this.

It should be noted that my opinion of Java is well recorded in the
archives; however I am more than prepared to support anyone offering
access to potentially useful information.

Shane ...

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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-18 Thread Gray, Larry - Larry A 
NOTICE:
All information in and attached to the e-mail(s) below may be proprietary, 
confidential, privileged and otherwise protected from improper or erroneous 
disclosure.  If you are not the sender's intended recipient, you are not 
authorized to intercept, read, print, retain, copy, forward, or disseminate 
this message.  If you have erroneously received this communication, please 
notify the sender immediately by phone (704-758-1000) or by e-mail and destroy 
all copies of this message (electronic, paper, or otherwise).  Thank you.

I have tried to use the heap dump analyzer off the ISA before, but had
trouble with it never giving me anything useful (probably me not knowing
how to use it correctly).  I found I had a lot of the same objects, but
could never get it to show me the name of the object.  If there were
things to look for from the WAS perspective under java, that might also
help. 


Larry Gray
Large Systems Engineering
Lowe's Companies
336-658-7944

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Poil
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 5:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Java Problem Analysis

Having pretty much vowed not to get involved with this thread any more,
I will have one last say.

My plan for 2008 is to see if I can get the idea of "official"courses
and/or presentations on how to debug z/OS Java abends (tools,
techniques), Out-of-Memory (Java and native),  how to read verbosegc
etc. Obviously you may well get to the point where you need access to
the code, which is where we come in, so that is as far as you go. If you
had a wish list (it is almost Christmas after all), what would you like
to see? 

Websphere have a really cool Technical Exchange Webcast site:

http://www-306.ibm.com/software/websphere/support/supp_tech.html

Very interesting presentations!  Maybe I need to talk to the owner. 

There are already presentations and even Redbooks out there that cover a
fair percentage of this subject , but to my mind there is no real
structure to locate them.

How do you guys look for Java stuff (outside the ever-present Google of
course), how could IBM anchor this kind of information?


--
Mike Poil
Java z/OS Level 3 Service
IBM United Kingdom Limited, Hursley Park, Winchester SO21 2JN
Internal: 246824  External: +44 (0)1962 816824 Java debugging:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/diagnosis/

--






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3AU






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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-18 Thread Michael Poil 
>
I have tried to use the heap dump analyzer off the ISA before, but had
trouble with it never giving me anything useful (probably me not knowing
how to use it correctly).  I found I had a lot of the same objects, but
could never get it to show me the name of the object.  If there were
things to look for from the WAS perspective under java, that might also
help. 
>

Try

WAS http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/redp3950.html

HeapAnalyzer and many useful links 
http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=swg27006624

EVTK and ISA 
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/web/library/j-ibmtools2/?S_TACT=105AGX54&ca=dnw-839

You can run HeapAnalyzer without ISA - see the second URL tabs (I use it 
outside ISA for PMRs). Dealing with object leaks is not always 
straightforward, but the general idea is to find the object tree with the 
most storage, click down its hierarchy and find where there is a big drop 
between the size of a level of the tree and the next and that is where you 
often find the leaked objects - see the doc that you can get at via the 
second URL.

If you want to analyse verbosegc output, use ISA and EVTK (or find 
GCCollector or PMAT). This is useful for Java performance analysis as cpu 
problems may be nothing more than the Java Heap is too small or some of 
the command line parameters are set badly e.g. -Xloratio is too big. If 
anyone wants some very simple rules of thumb, ask me.

Regards.

Mike

--
Mike Poil
Java z/OS Level 3 Service
IBM United Kingdom Limited, Hursley Park, Winchester SO21 2JN
Internal: 246824  External: +44 (0)1962 816824 
Java debugging: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/diagnosis/
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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-18 Thread Gray, Larry - Larry A 
NOTICE:
All information in and attached to the e-mail(s) below may be proprietary, 
confidential, privileged and otherwise protected from improper or erroneous 
disclosure.  If you are not the sender's intended recipient, you are not 
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all copies of this message (electronic, paper, or otherwise).  Thank you.

Thanks.  I will check them out. 

I do analyze the verbosegc output using the ISA.  No problem with that.


Larry Gray
Large Systems Engineering
Lowe's Companies
336-658-7944

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Poil
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 11:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Java Problem Analysis

>
I have tried to use the heap dump analyzer off the ISA before, but had
trouble with it never giving me anything useful (probably me not knowing
how to use it correctly).  I found I had a lot of the same objects, but
could never get it to show me the name of the object.  If there were
things to look for from the WAS perspective under java, that might also
help. 
>

Try

WAS http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/redp3950.html

HeapAnalyzer and many useful links
http://www-1.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=swg27006624

EVTK and ISA
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/web/library/j-ibmtools2/?S_TACT=105AGX
54&ca=dnw-839

You can run HeapAnalyzer without ISA - see the second URL tabs (I use it
outside ISA for PMRs). Dealing with object leaks is not always
straightforward, but the general idea is to find the object tree with
the most storage, click down its hierarchy and find where there is a big
drop between the size of a level of the tree and the next and that is
where you often find the leaked objects - see the doc that you can get
at via the second URL.

If you want to analyse verbosegc output, use ISA and EVTK (or find
GCCollector or PMAT). This is useful for Java performance analysis as
cpu problems may be nothing more than the Java Heap is too small or some
of the command line parameters are set badly e.g. -Xloratio is too big.
If anyone wants some very simple rules of thumb, ask me.

Regards.

Mike


--
Mike Poil
Java z/OS Level 3 Service
IBM United Kingdom Limited, Hursley Park, Winchester SO21 2JN
Internal: 246824  External: +44 (0)1962 816824 Java debugging:
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/diagnosis/

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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-18 Thread Timothy Sipples 
John McKown asks:
>Since SUN is now open sourcing Java, I wonder if IBM will start
>supplying the source to their port.

I don't know the answer directly. However, note that GPL (GNU Public
License) code provides access to source code. So if IBM or anyone else
modifies someone else's GPL code, you can ask for and must receive the
modified source code. And if it isn't modified, you already can get it.

I don't know what Sun's license is. But at least for GPL code, you already
have an answer.

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples
IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect
Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z
Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-19 Thread Glen Gasior 
*They told me most of their support effort involves wading through source
code to see what might be going wrong. (No wonder they move so slowly!!!) I
almost laughed out loud!  Their dump reading skill shortage was so acute,
the managers were convinced that dumps were useless clumps of bits & bytes.*

This attitude drives me nuts. But if people are unwilling to commit to the
study, self-discipline, and diligence to achieve a competent level of
professional understanding because that type of achievement is not rewarded,
this is what you are stuck with. But why should anyone strive to be a
competent engineer when you make more money as a manager? If, as a manager,
you can always blame a skill shortage for poor results, and still collect
the big $$$, what is the downside? When a company focuses its resources on
management and bureaucracy instead of technical excellence, results are
going to deteriorate.
(Put nine women on that right away, we need the baby next month)


*

*

On 12/13/07, Edward Jaffe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Barbara Nitz wrote:
> > Quote from the diagnosis book:
> >
> > "It is easier for IBM Service to solve a problem when a test case is
> available. Include a test case with your problem report wherever possible."
> >
> > This really rubs me the wrong way, not because it isn't true, but
> because to me it sounds like justification why these highly intermittend,
> non-reproducible problems are never found! To someone used to z/OS and
> finding the bug with the one and only dump ever produced (because it is a
> serialization problem of some sort, possibly caused by the fact that
> multiple processors can execute the same instruction at exactly the same
> time), this sounds like an excuse, proven by the way these problems are
> always handled, due to lack of skill and knowledge..
> >
>
> Exactly! I've run into *massive* skills shortage problems trying to get
> the Library Server for z/OS fixed.
>
> When working one problem in particular, I was training *them* on how I/O
> works in MVS! On a telephone conference call, they were suggesting I do
> things that make sense only on a PC. (Can't remember the specifics. But,
> it was laughable!) And, try as I might, I simply could not understand
> one of the guys at all -- his accent was so heavy. And, the rest of them
> pretended not to notice. (That was a language skills shortage. Equally
> frustrating. But, perhaps I digress...) After a year of back and forth,
> I finally just decided not to use the "broken" function because it was
> clear they could/would never fix it. I judged them incapable of doing so.
>
> I sent a dump for another problem with the same group. The dump had
> "everything in it but the kitchen sink" and the response came back, "The
> dump was not helpful to the developer. We need to try to recreate in
> house." Translation? "The developer does not know how to read the dump.
> He only knows how to reproduce bugs under his debugger." I got so
> frustrated by this, I demanded a conference call with two levels of
> management for this group. While the managers readily acknowledged their
> skills shortage, and tried to placate me by telling about plans to add
> more z/OS-centric people to the mix, they _actually believed_ that
> chasing dumps was unproductive. They told me most of their support
> effort involves wading through source code to see what might be going
> wrong. (No wonder they move so slowly!!!) I almost laughed out loud!
> Their dump reading skill shortage was so acute, the managers were
> convinced that dumps were useless clumps of bits & bytes. Virtual boat
> anchors.
>
> There's not much you can do when the skills shortage affects all levels
> of an organization. I tried my best to convince them that effective dump
> analysis is what makes z/OS a robust platform and that such skills
> should be emphasized. I doubt they ever fully understood the point I was
> trying to make.
>
> In the end, we agreed to send, and they agreed to accept, licensed and
> proprietary documentation (softcopy books) from which they were finally
> able to reproduce the problem locally on a PC. Sad.
>
> --
> Edward E Jaffe
> Phoenix Software International, Inc
> 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
> Los Angeles, CA 90045
> 310-338-0400 x318
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-19 Thread Kirk Wolf 
Timothy,

I'm sorry to disagree, but its not as simple as you would suggest.

Just because Sun releases the source code for JDK 7 under GPL, it doesn't
mean that they can't also license to IBM under a different license.   Sun
has already indicated that they will continue to distribute Java under
commercial licenses.  Its hard to imagine that IBM would be working under
the GPL on z/OS because of the "linking" implications.   Are you aware of
*any* GPL software ported to z/OS and released by IBM as a product?

Also, JDK 7 and not JDK 6 has not been released under the GPL.   Here are
the details:

http://www.sun.com/software/opensource/java/faq.jsp#b5

FWIW, IBM does not generally release source for open source tools ported to
z/OS products.   Take OpenSSH for example: it is distributed under a BSD
license which does not require source to made available for derivative
works.   This flies in the face of the "security through openness"
philosophy behind OpenSSH IMO.

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies



On Dec 19, 2007 1:39 AM, Timothy Sipples <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> John McKown asks:
> >Since SUN is now open sourcing Java, I wonder if IBM will start
> >supplying the source to their port.
>
> I don't know the answer directly. However, note that GPL (GNU Public
> License) code provides access to source code. So if IBM or anyone else
> modifies someone else's GPL code, you can ask for and must receive the
> modified source code. And if it isn't modified, you already can get it.
>
> I don't know what Sun's license is. But at least for GPL code, you already
> have an answer.
>
> - - - - -
> Timothy Sipples
> IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect
> Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z
> Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-19 Thread Howard Brazee 
On 19 Dec 2007 07:28:37 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Glen
Gasior) wrote:

>(Put nine women on that right away, we need the baby next month)

I think the Broncos running back Travis Henry tried that.

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Re: Java Problem Analysis

2007-12-19 Thread Timothy Sipples 
Kirk, I tried to phrase my (limited) answer succinctly yet accurately, but
it seems I didn't entirely succeed.

The case you're describing is where the original author of the code (Sun in
this case) (also) releases their code under non-GPL terms. In that case,
it's not "GPL code," is it? :-) (That specific code isn't.) Thus my
explanation doesn't apply -- I wasn't explaining anything about how code
under different licenses works. I was explaining how "GPL code" works, and
that specific code isn't GPL.

If IBM or anyone else bases their work off the GPL source, then my
explanation does apply. It really is that simple.

Yes, IBM has done some GPL-related work on z/OS. Here's some:

http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/zos/unix/bpxa1ty1.html

I believe you'll find several on the list with GPL licenses, or at least
licenses that are comparable to the GPL for purposes of this discussion
(i.e. which assure access to source code), e.g. emacs.

But you did expand our knowledge. So you say that Sun's Java(TM) is
available under non-GPL terms. Thus we can conclude there is no assurance
that derivatives (from IBM, Sun, or anyone else) of the non-GPL code will
be available in source code form. That directly addresses the "I don't
know" part of my answer -- the first sentence :-) -- and I'm grateful for
that.  Thanks.

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples
IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect
Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z
Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [MVS-OE] Java problem

2009-10-05 Thread Chase, John 
> -Original Message-
> From: MVS OpenEdition On Behalf Of Steve Comstock
> 
> We've recently been migrating our z/OS system from
> our Thinkpad under FLEX-ES to the IBM Dallas center.
> 
> It's actually going pretty well, but now I'm having a problem
> doing a simple Java compile. Here's what happens:
> 
> ===> javac cgijava1.java
> 
> java/io/PrintStream.java(java/io:PrintStream.java):1: illegal character: \7
> 
> -
> ---&ÊÑ>ÈëÈÊÁ/_-¦/Î/---ä?ø`ÊÑÅÇÈ--ëÍ>-(ÑÄÊ?Ë`ËÈÁ_Ë--ñ>Ä-- 
> %%-ÊÑÅÇÈË-ÊÁËÁÊÎÁÀ-
> ëí+-&ê|&êñáè êßä|+ãñàá+èñ <
> --íËÁ-ÑË-ËͦÁÄÈ-È?-%ÑÄÁ>ËÁ-ÈÁÊ_Ë--ø/Ä,/ÅÁ-¦/Î/-Ñ?---Ñ_ø?ÊÈ-¦/Î/-ÍÈÑ%-ã?Ê_/ÈÈÁÊ--Ñ_ø?ÊÈ-¦/Î/-ÍÈÑ%-
>  ÄÁËËä?>ÈÊ?%%ÁÊ---ñâ(-øÁÊìãÑ%Áñ|-Ñ_ø?ÊÈ-ËÍ>-ËÁÄÍÊÑÈ`-/ÄÈÑ?>-
> åÁÈ&Ê?øÁÊÈ` ÄÈÑ?>
> ñâ(-øÁÊìãÑ%Áñ|- 
> --Ä?ÀÁ-&ÊÑ>ÈëÈÊÁ/_-Ä?ÀÁ--/ÀÀË-ÃÍ>ÄÈÑ?>/%ÑÈ`-È?-/>?ÈÇÁÊ-
> ?ÍÈøÍÈ-ËÈÊÁ/_->/_Á%`-ÈÇÁ-/ÂÑ%
> ÑÈ`-È?-øÊÑ>È-ÊÁøÊÁËÁ>È/ÈÑ?>Ë-?Ã-Î/ÊÑ?ÍË-À/È/-Î/%ÍÁËÄ?>ÎÁ>ÑÁ>È%`---èÏ?-?ÈÇÁÊ-ÃÁ/ÈÍÊÁË-/ÊÁ-øÊ?ÎÑÀÁÀ-
> /Ë-ÏÁ%%---í>%Ñ,Á-?ÈÇÁÊ-?ÍÈøÍÈ--
> --ËÈÊÁ/_Ë--/--Ä?ÀÁ-&ÊÑ>ÈëÈÊÁ/_-Ä?ÀÁ-->ÁÎÁÊ-ÈÇÊ?ÏË-/>-Ä?ÀÁ-ñ|áÌÄÁøÈÑ?>-Ä?ÀÁ---Ñ>ËÈÁ/À--ÁÌÄÁøÈÑ?>/%-
> ËÑÈÍ/ÈÑ?>Ë-_ÁÊÁ%`-ËÁÈ-/>Ñ>È

Looks like a codepage problem.

-jc-

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Re: [MVS-OE] Java problem

2009-10-05 Thread Scott Ford 
What does the Java source look like ?
 
Scott J Ford

John,

What does the Java source look like ?
 
Scott J Ford
 





From: "Chase, John" 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 1:10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [MVS-OE] Java problem

> -Original Message-
> From: MVS OpenEdition On Behalf Of Steve Comstock
> 
> We've recently been migrating our z/OS system from
> our Thinkpad under FLEX-ES to the IBM Dallas center.
> 
> It's actually going pretty well, but now I'm having a problem
> doing a simple Java compile. Here's what happens:
> 
> ===> javac cgijava1.java
> 
> java/io/PrintStream.java(java/io:PrintStream.java):1: illegal character: \7
> 
> -
> ---&ÊÑ>ÈëÈÊÁ/_-¦/Î/---ä?ø`ÊÑÅÇÈ--ëÍ>-(ÑÄÊ?Ë`ËÈÁ_Ë--ñ>Ä-- 
> %%-ÊÑÅÇÈË-ÊÁËÁÊÎÁÀ-
> ëí+-&ê|&êñáè êßä|+ãñàá+èñ <
> --íËÁ-ÑË-ËͦÁÄÈ-È?-%ÑÄÁ>ËÁ-ÈÁÊ_Ë--ø/Ä,/ÅÁ-¦/Î/-Ñ?---Ñ_ø?ÊÈ-¦/Î/-ÍÈÑ%-ã?Ê_/ÈÈÁÊ--Ñ_ø?ÊÈ-¦/Î/-ÍÈÑ%-
>  ÄÁËËä?>ÈÊ?%%ÁÊ---ñâ(-øÁÊìãÑ%Áñ|-Ñ_ø?ÊÈ-ËÍ>-ËÁÄÍÊÑÈ`-/ÄÈÑ?>-
> åÁÈ&Ê?øÁÊÈ` ÄÈÑ?>
> ñâ(-øÁÊìãÑ%Áñ|- 
> --Ä?ÀÁ-&ÊÑ>ÈëÈÊÁ/_-Ä?ÀÁ--/ÀÀË-ÃÍ>ÄÈÑ?>/%ÑÈ`-È?-/>?ÈÇÁÊ-
> ?ÍÈøÍÈ-ËÈÊÁ/_->/_Á%`-ÈÇÁ-/ÂÑ%
> ÑÈ`-È?-øÊÑ>È-ÊÁøÊÁËÁ>È/ÈÑ?>Ë-?Ã-Î/ÊÑ?ÍË-À/È/-Î/%ÍÁËÄ?>ÎÁ>ÑÁ>È%`---èÏ?-?ÈÇÁÊ-ÃÁ/ÈÍÊÁË-/ÊÁ-øÊ?ÎÑÀÁÀ-
> /Ë-ÏÁ%%---í>%Ñ,Á-?ÈÇÁÊ-?ÍÈøÍÈ--
> --ËÈÊÁ/_Ë--/--Ä?ÀÁ-&ÊÑ>ÈëÈÊÁ/_-Ä?ÀÁ-->ÁÎÁÊ-ÈÇÊ?ÏË-/>-Ä?ÀÁ-ñ|áÌÄÁøÈÑ?>-Ä?ÀÁ---Ñ>ËÈÁ/À--ÁÌÄÁøÈÑ?>/%-
> ËÑÈÍ/ÈÑ?>Ë-_ÁÊÁ%`-ËÁÈ-/>Ñ>È

Looks like a codepage problem.

    -jc-

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Re: [MVS-OE] Java problem

2009-10-05 Thread Sam Siegel 
Looks like it might be ascii.

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 6:21 AM, Scott Ford  wrote:

> What does the Java source look like ?
>
> Scott J Ford
>
> John,
>
> What does the Java source look like ?
>
> Scott J Ford
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> From: "Chase, John" 
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 1:10:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [MVS-OE] Java problem
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: MVS OpenEdition On Behalf Of Steve Comstock
> >
> > We've recently been migrating our z/OS system from
> > our Thinkpad under FLEX-ES to the IBM Dallas center.
> >
> > It's actually going pretty well, but now I'm having a problem
> > doing a simple Java compile. Here's what happens:
> >
> > ===> javac cgijava1.java
> >
> > java/io/PrintStream.java(java/io:PrintStream.java):1: illegal character:
> \7
> >
> > -
> >
> ---&ÊÑ>ÈëÈÊÁ/_-¦/Î/---ä?ø`ÊÑÅÇÈ--ëÍ>-(ÑÄÊ?Ë`ËÈÁ_Ë--ñ>Ä--
> %%-ÊÑÅÇÈË-ÊÁËÁÊÎÁÀ-
> > ëí+-&ê|&êñáè êßä|+ãñàá+èñ <
> >
> --íËÁ-ÑË-ËͦÁÄÈ-È?-%ÑÄÁ>ËÁ-ÈÁÊ_Ë--ø/Ä,/ÅÁ-¦/Î/-Ñ?---Ñ_ø?ÊÈ-¦/Î/-ÍÈÑ%-ã?Ê_/ÈÈÁÊ--Ñ_ø?ÊÈ-¦/Î/-ÍÈÑ%-
> >  >
> ÄÁËËä?>ÈÊ?%%ÁÊ---ñâ(-øÁÊìãÑ%Áñ|-Ñ_ø?ÊÈ-ËÍ>-ËÁÄÍÊÑÈ`-/ÄÈÑ?>-
> > åÁÈ&Ê?øÁÊÈ` ÄÈÑ?>
> > ñâ(-øÁÊìãÑ%Áñ|-
> --Ä?ÀÁ-&ÊÑ>ÈëÈÊÁ/_-Ä?ÀÁ--/ÀÀË-ÃÍ>ÄÈÑ?>/%ÑÈ`-È?-/>?ÈÇÁÊ-
> > ?ÍÈøÍÈ-ËÈÊÁ/_->/_Á%`-ÈÇÁ-/ÂÑ%
> >
> ÑÈ`-È?-øÊÑ>È-ÊÁøÊÁËÁ>È/ÈÑ?>Ë-?Ã-Î/ÊÑ?ÍË-À/È/-Î/%ÍÁËÄ?>ÎÁ>ÑÁ>È%`---èÏ?-?ÈÇÁÊ-ÃÁ/ÈÍÊÁË-/ÊÁ-øÊ?ÎÑÀÁÀ-
> > /Ë-ÏÁ%%---í>%Ñ,Á-?ÈÇÁÊ-?ÍÈøÍÈ--
> >
> --ËÈÊÁ/_Ë--/--Ä?ÀÁ-&ÊÑ>ÈëÈÊÁ/_-Ä?ÀÁ-->ÁÎÁÊ-ÈÇÊ?ÏË-/>-Ä?ÀÁ-ñ|áÌÄÁøÈÑ?>-Ä?ÀÁ---Ñ>ËÈÁ/À--ÁÌÄÁøÈÑ?>/%-
> > ËÑÈÍ/ÈÑ?>Ë-_ÁÊÁ%`-ËÁÈ-/>Ñ>È
>
> Looks like a codepage problem.
>
> -jc-
>
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Re: [MVS-OE] Java problem

2009-10-06 Thread Rob Schramm 
I agree.. binary / ascii transmission issue? aka went thru conversion and 
didn't need to?  Tag on file is wrong and autoconvert is on?


-Rob

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Antwort: [MVS-OE] Java problem

2009-10-06 Thread Michael Klaeschen 
Steve, 
assuming this is a codepage dilemma...
I found that certain objects like the "InputStreamReader" may be created 
with explicit character set parameters. If these are not set, the value of 
the JVM symbol "file.encoding" is used as a default. I have good 
experiences always setting the desired character set for the JVM, like 
"-Dfile.encoding=IBM-273". Did you check the symbol IBM_JAVA_OPTIONS for 
file.encoding already? This one is defined in the STDENV-DD somewhere in 
SYS1.PROCLIB(JVMPRCxx) for JZOS. Take care about the environment symbols. 
The profile-file concatenation seems not to be automatically included by 
JVMLDMxx (as BPXBATCH with SH-parameter does). Instead, I need to include 
my and the system profile-file concatenation in STDENV-DD with the 
dot-operand. 
Cheers
Michael




Steve Comstock  
Gesendet von: MVS OpenEdition 
06.10.2009 04:01
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Thema
[MVS-OE] Java problem






We've recently been migrating our z/OS system from
our Thinkpad under FLEX-ES to the IBM Dallas center.

It's actually going pretty well, but now I'm having a problem
doing a simple Java compile. Here's what happens:

===> javac cgijava1.java 

java/io/PrintStream.java(java/io:PrintStream.java):1: illegal character: 
\7 

- 
---&ÊÑ>ÈëÈÊÁ/_-¦/Î/---ä?ø`ÊÑÅÇÈ--ëÍ>-(ÑÄÊ?Ë`ËÈÁ_Ë--ñ>Ä-- 
%%-ÊÑÅÇÈË-ÊÁËÁÊÎÁÀ-ëí+-&ê|&êñáè êßä|+ãñàá+èñ <
--íËÁ-ÑË-ËͦÁÄÈ-È?-%ÑÄÁ>ËÁ-ÈÁÊ_Ë--ø/Ä,/ÅÁ-¦/Î/-Ñ?---Ñ_ø?ÊÈ-¦/Î/-ÍÈÑ%-ã?Ê_/ÈÈÁÊ--Ñ_ø?ÊÈ-¦/Î/-ÍÈÑ%-ÈÊ?%%ÁÊ---ñâ(-øÁÊìãÑ%Áñ|-Ñ_ø?ÊÈ-ËÍ>-ËÁÄÍÊÑÈ`-/ÄÈÑ?>-åÁÈ&Ê?øÁÊÈ`
 
ÄÈÑ?>
ñâ(-øÁÊìãÑ%Áñ|- 
--Ä?ÀÁ-&ÊÑ>ÈëÈÊÁ/_-Ä?ÀÁ--/ÀÀË-ÃÍ>ÄÈÑ?>/%ÑÈ`-È?-/>?ÈÇÁÊ-?ÍÈøÍÈ-ËÈÊÁ/_->/_Á%`-ÈÇÁ-/ÂÑ%
ÑÈ`-È?-øÊÑ>È-ÊÁøÊÁËÁ>È/ÈÑ?>Ë-?Ã-Î/ÊÑ?ÍË-À/È/-Î/%ÍÁËÄ?>ÎÁ>ÑÁ>È%`---èÏ?-?ÈÇÁÊ-ÃÁ/ÈÍÊÁË-/ÊÁ-øÊ?ÎÑÀÁÀ-/Ë-ÏÁ%%---í>%Ñ,Á-?ÈÇÁÊ-?ÍÈøÍÈ--
--ËÈÊÁ/_Ë--/--Ä?ÀÁ-&ÊÑ>ÈëÈÊÁ/_-Ä?ÀÁ-->ÁÎÁÊ-ÈÇÊ?ÏË-/>-Ä?ÀÁ-ñ|áÌÄÁøÈÑ?>-Ä?ÀÁ---Ñ>ËÈÁ/À--ÁÌÄÁøÈÑ?>/%-ËÑÈÍ/ÈÑ?>Ë-_ÁÊÁ%`-ËÁÈ-/>Ñ>È
.
.
.



It compiles fine on our old system; we are using Java 1.6
in both cases. Environment variables of note:


Old:

CLASSPATH="/u/scomsto/CGI:/u/scomsto/public_html/Java:/usr/lpp/internet/server_root/cgi-bin:/usr/lpp/java16/J6.0:"
 


JAVA_HOME="/usr/lpp/java16/J6.0" 

LANG="C" 

LIBPATH="/usr/lpp/java16/J6.0/bin/classic:/usr/lpp/java16/J6.0/bin:/usr/lpp/ldap/lib:/usr/lpp/internet/sbin:/usr/lpp/internet/bin:/us
r/lpp/Printsrv/lib:/lib:/usr/lib:." 

NLSPATH="/usr/lpp/Printsrv/%L/%N:/usr/lib/nls/msg/%L/%N:/usr/lib/nls/msg/%L/%N.cat"
 


PATH="/usr/local/bin:/usr/lpp/pli/bin:/usr/lpp/cobol/bin:/usr/lpp/Printsrv/bin:/bin:.:/usr/lpp/java16/J6.0/bin:/usr/lpp/toolsNtoys/bi
n"


New:


CLASSPATH="/u/scomsto/CGI:/u/scomsto/public_html/Java:/usr/lpp/internet/server_root/cgi-bin:/u/Java6_31/J6.0:/u/Java6_31/J6.0/src.zip"
 

 

JAVA_HOME="/u/Java6_31/J6.0" 

LANG="C" 

LIBPATH="/u/Java6_31/J6.0/bin/classic:/u/Java6_31/J6.0/bin:/usr/lpp/ldap/lib:/usr/lpp/internet/sbin:/usr/lpp/internet/bin:/lib:/usr/l
ib:.:/usr/lib/java_runtime" 

NLSPATH="/usr/lib/nls/msg/%L/%N:/usr/lib/nls/msg/%L/%N.cat" 

PATH="/u/Java6_31/J6.0/bin:/usr/lpp/pli/bin:/usr/lpp/internet/bin:/usr/lpp/cobol/bin:/bin:."
 






I seem to recall running into this problem once before,
but I can't seem to recall how I solved it.

Any suggestions here?



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The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

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Re: GPL and z/OS (was: Java Problem Analysis)

2007-12-20 Thread Kirk Wolf 
Timothy,

I agree, except:

1) Its not simple :-)
2) The ported tools and toys are not "released by IBM as a product".   I
still don't believe that IBM has released any GPL-licensed z/OS tools as
"products".Probably my fault... it would have been more clear if I would
have said "supported products".

IMO, this is one of the big problems with z/OS Unix  other *nix
implementations include a much better set of tools, such as the GNU tools.
Take for example "bash".   This is the most popular *nix shell, licensed
under GPL, but it is not included with z/OS.Other *nix vendors ship
their systems with a nice set of tools, and either fully support them, or in
some cases have a "managed" support clause which is something less than
"full support".

See for example:  http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/freeware/
Where, you will notice that many of the open source GPL tools are listed as
"managed support":

"m = managed: Sun provides existing patches and escalates new bugs to the
developer community."

Compare this to the z/OS Unix "tools and toys"... they are woefully
incomplete and out of date.

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies

On Dec 20, 2007 12:42 AM, Timothy Sipples <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Kirk, I tried to phrase my (limited) answer succinctly yet accurately, but
> it seems I didn't entirely succeed.
>
> The case you're describing is where the original author of the code (Sun
> in
> this case) (also) releases their code under non-GPL terms. In that case,
> it's not "GPL code," is it? :-) (That specific code isn't.) Thus my
> explanation doesn't apply -- I wasn't explaining anything about how code
> under different licenses works. I was explaining how "GPL code" works, and
> that specific code isn't GPL.
>
> If IBM or anyone else bases their work off the GPL source, then my
> explanation does apply. It really is that simple.
>
> Yes, IBM has done some GPL-related work on z/OS. Here's some:
>
> http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/zos/unix/bpxa1ty1.html
>
> I believe you'll find several on the list with GPL licenses, or at least
> licenses that are comparable to the GPL for purposes of this discussion
> (i.e. which assure access to source code), e.g. emacs.
>
> But you did expand our knowledge. So you say that Sun's Java(TM) is
> available under non-GPL terms. Thus we can conclude there is no assurance
> that derivatives (from IBM, Sun, or anyone else) of the non-GPL code will
> be available in source code form. That directly addresses the "I don't
> know" part of my answer -- the first sentence :-) -- and I'm grateful for
> that.  Thanks.
>
> - - - - -
> Timothy Sipples
> IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect
> Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z
> Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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