Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
On Jul 13, 2006, at 4:49 AM, Timothy Sipples wrote: Ted MacNeil wrote: This whole education initiative is a case in point. There are no 'big name' schools on the list! I'm not sure that's true. But Harvard (for example) has very few IT courses (if any). Philosophy, sure. Shakespeare, check. Biochemistry, yes. Sociobiology, of course. Principles of UNIX systems operations? No. --SNIP--- BUT Harvard (along with a few other BIG schools) requires a (P)C that will hook up their internal network. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
But, IBM does not market it well. To me, they still seem to be of the mind that it will sell itself. This whole education initiative is a case in point. There are no 'big name' schools on the list! The big name companies that contribute to the big name schools need to be pushing this initiative! Why do you think the University of Arkansas has a full curriculum in enterprise computing? One of their big contributors need those skills. The UA of students in this program are also given a chance to work as summer interns and co-ops in a large mainframe shop. You can't expect IBM to do it all. The companies needing mainframe skills need to do their part to influence the Universities/Colleges in their area. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
On 11 Jul 2006 01:13:25 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: IBM does not publish customer lists for obvious reasons. I don't believe anybody was asking for a list of customers. Like a census, we would just like a head-count without details. How well the market is doing would be a nice indicator as to job opportunities and whether the mainframe is truly dying (which I don't believe, but management does. But, IBM is their own worst enemy when it comes to pitching the mainframe! I'm not certain that they want the mainframe to survive in the long term. I doubt that I'll see any push for the z9BC here in Atlantic Canada. When in doubt. PANIC!! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
I think a number of hardware designers that I know would disagree with your assessment on the long-term survival of the mainframe. Christopher Y. Blaicher BMC Software, Inc. Austin Development Labs (512) 340-6154 The comments made are my personal opinions. BMC Software, Inc. makes no representations or promises regarding the reliability, completeness, or accuracy of the information provided in this discussion; all readers agree not to rely on this information or take any action against BMC Software in response to this information. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clark Morris Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 2:35 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites On 11 Jul 2006 01:13:25 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: IBM does not publish customer lists for obvious reasons. I don't believe anybody was asking for a list of customers. Like a census, we would just like a head-count without details. How well the market is doing would be a nice indicator as to job opportunities and whether the mainframe is truly dying (which I don't believe, but management does. But, IBM is their own worst enemy when it comes to pitching the mainframe! I'm not certain that they want the mainframe to survive in the long term. I doubt that I'll see any push for the z9BC here in Atlantic Canada. When in doubt. PANIC!! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
I think a number of hardware designers that I know would disagree with your assessment on the long-term survival of the mainframe I tend to agree. But, IBM does not market it well. To me, they still seem to be of the mind that it will sell itself. This whole education initiative is a case in point. There are no 'big name' schools on the list! When in doubt. PANIC!! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
IBM does not publish customer lists for obvious reasons. I don't believe anybody was asking for a list of customers. Like a census, we would just like a head-count without details. How well the market is doing would be a nice indicator as to job opportunities and whether the mainframe is truly dying (which I don't believe, but management does. But, IBM is their own worst enemy when it comes to pitching the mainframe! When in doubt. PANIC!! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:33:58 -0700, Kevin Keyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Goods luck. (E)JES me off-line ... Nice plug, Kevin! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
When I worked for Amdahl in the 1980s, the salesmen made great use of the Computer Users Yearbook. Not sure if this was a UK only phenomenon, but I think it was compiled by the publisher sending questionnaires to most UK companies of any size. People seemed happy to answer questions in those days. Nigel On 11/7/06 01:33, Kevin Keyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Charles Mills wrote: marketing pukes Excuse me? wondered how they found all that information A number of companies develop or once developed directories of sites by hardware type (AS/400, Univac, S/390, DEC, whatever). If you started with a mailing list for an enterprise software type magazine and had the budget to call every unique shop represented, you could do a pretty good job (especially back in the days when people actually answered their telephones). Once you have the list, it is a somewhat simpler task to maintain it. Such a list could be sold to the marketing, um, people - that revenue might justify the expense involved. I'm a techie at heart but I used to own a software company. Without sales people, there would have been no sales, and no jobs for programmers. Marketing is more than sales. Part of marketing's job is to make sure that the techies are building what the customers want - not an entirely bad thing. Charles Now you have done it Charles. I have been marketing and selling IBM mainframe software since starting up in 1980. There are some ego's here that can't handle this logic. IBM does not publish customer lists for obvious reasons. As I am sure you know, there are some good alternatives that can be purchased and each can be broken down by names, companies, sites, processors, etc., for both vert. and horizontal marketing opportunities. Harte-Hanks directly comes to mind but I get packages monthly with other companies providing the same service. You logic above however will get you some flames due to many that have never seen both ends of the gun. Goods luck. (E)JES me off-line what you are specifically looking for, I have been around a long time and have a pretty good handle on it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
Charles Mills wrote: Yes, I started a thread like this a few months ago. I got some useful, but non-definitive, answers. Search the archives. Those who know don't tell. Those who tell don't know. Not necessarily. It was being estimated, the number of MVS sites is approx. 10.000. Of course 20k MIPS site and FlexES site both count as 1. BTW: *WE*, the IBM-MAIN group are able to research the number of sites. Some of us knows some numbers about own site and some neighbourhood. As long we don't mention company names, we can share this data. Even anonymously. Then one of us could aggregate and present the numbers. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
R.S. wrote: BTW: *WE*, the IBM-MAIN group are able to research the number of sites. Some of us knows some numbers about own site and some neighbourhood. As long we don't mention company names, we can share this data. Even anonymously. Then one of us could aggregate and present the numbers. I don't think so. IBM-Main participants represent only a fraction of the mainframe community. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
Edward E Jaffe wrote: I don't think so. IBM-Main participants represent only a fraction of the mainframe community. And some of us don't have shops but are here because we have clients who aren't on the list. Bill Dodge email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: (703)627-2455 If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there. Lewis Carroll If you don't know where you are, a map won't help Unknown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 08:28:52 -0700, Edward Jaffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: R.S. wrote: BTW: *WE*, the IBM-MAIN group are able to research the number of sites. Some of us knows some numbers about own site and some neighbourhood. As long we don't mention company names, we can share this data. Even anonymously. Then one of us could aggregate and present the numbers. I don't think so. IBM-Main participants represent only a fraction of the mainframe community. I've worked (since 1980) in the Chicago area at over 20 shops (many of which are now gone) as an employee or consulting and I'm still often finding out about small MVS shops I never heard of. I know all the big ones but not all the ones. I know there are some lists floating around and I'm pretty sure one of my old consulting firms had a fairly complete one, but I would bet that some of those firms and head hunters have more knowledge about where all the MVS shops are around here (and other large cities) than IBM-MAIN followers. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] z/OS and OS390 expert at http://searchDataCenter.com/ateExperts/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
Mark Zelden wrote: On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 08:28:52 -0700, Edward Jaffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: R.S. wrote: BTW: *WE*, the IBM-MAIN group are able to research the number of sites. Some of us knows some numbers about own site and some neighbourhood. As long we don't mention company names, we can share this data. Even anonymously. Then one of us could aggregate and present the numbers. I don't think so. IBM-Main participants represent only a fraction of the mainframe community. I've worked (since 1980) in the Chicago area at over 20 shops (many of which are now gone) as an employee or consulting and I'm still often finding out about small MVS shops I never heard of. I know all the big ones but not all the ones. I know there are some lists floating around and I'm pretty sure one of my old consulting firms had a fairly complete one, but I would bet that some of those firms and head hunters have more knowledge about where all the MVS shops are around here (and other large cities) than IBM-MAIN followers. The above is true, however our community common knowledge is good enough, at least as first, rough estimation. You know bigger shops in Chicago area. Let's assume someone else complement your knowledge and you'll be able to provide information about Illinois. I can provide quite exact information about total MIPS in Poland, and not bad about total number of shops. Other people could do it for other states/coutries/regions. Obviously it won't be 100% accurate, probably white areas will remain on the map. However it is feasible to do it at acceptable level. Since it start, other companies would be even interested to complement information about them. Those uninterested are still protected, since no company data will be exposed - only fraction of total MIPS base and shops number. I don't know SHARE too much, but it could be a project under SHARE 'blessing'. Just my $0.02 -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
If people were reporting anonymously (no company names), it would be entirely possible for two or more people working in the same area to overlap each other by reporting on many of the same shops in their 'neighborhood'. It could be difficult to eliminate these overlaps and thus the results might overstate the situation in some geographic areas. For myself, I don't plan to send in any count of shops or MIPS for my area. I do not see much point to this exercise. David Mueller | Systems Programmer | DMS/EITS Phone: 850-414-9134 (Rm 107 SRC) | Fax: 850-921-8343 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of R.S. Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 12:51 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites The above is true, however our community common knowledge is good enough, at least as first, rough estimation. You know bigger shops in Chicago area. Let's assume someone else complement your knowledge and you'll be able to provide information about Illinois. I can provide quite exact information about total MIPS in Poland, and not bad about total number of shops. Other people could do it for other states/coutries/regions. Obviously it won't be 100% accurate, probably white areas will remain on the map. However it is feasible to do it at acceptable level. Since it start, other companies would be even interested to complement information about them. Those uninterested are still protected, since no company data will be exposed - only fraction of total MIPS base and shops number. I don't know SHARE too much, but it could be a project under SHARE 'blessing'. Just my $0.02 -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
About 25 years ago, near the end of my days at Amdahl, I saw a directory of DP shops. It was something that the marketing pukes used to use. I never had a clue any such thing existed until then. When I looked through it, I found every sitet hat I could think of. At the time, I was surprised that such a thing existed and wondered how they found all that information. Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
It would be less than useless. It would be like taking a census of the US by asking all the members of slashdot to write in with how many people they knew. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mueller, David Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 10:13 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites If people were reporting anonymously (no company names), it would be entirely possible for two or more people working in the same area to overlap each other by reporting on many of the same shops in their 'neighborhood'. It could be difficult to eliminate these overlaps and thus the results might overstate the situation in some geographic areas. For myself, I don't plan to send in any count of shops or MIPS for my area. I do not see much point to this exercise. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
marketing pukes Excuse me? wondered how they found all that information A number of companies develop or once developed directories of sites by hardware type (AS/400, Univac, S/390, DEC, whatever). If you started with a mailing list for an enterprise software type magazine and had the budget to call every unique shop represented, you could do a pretty good job (especially back in the days when people actually answered their telephones). Once you have the list, it is a somewhat simpler task to maintain it. Such a list could be sold to the marketing, um, people - that revenue might justify the expense involved. I'm a techie at heart but I used to own a software company. Without sales people, there would have been no sales, and no jobs for programmers. Marketing is more than sales. Part of marketing's job is to make sure that the techies are building what the customers want - not an entirely bad thing. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Marchant Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 11:19 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites About 25 years ago, near the end of my days at Amdahl, I saw a directory of DP shops. It was something that the marketing pukes used to use. I never had a clue any such thing existed until then. When I looked through it, I found every sitet hat I could think of. At the time, I was surprised that such a thing existed and wondered how they found all that information. Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
Charles Mills wrote: marketing pukes Excuse me? wondered how they found all that information A number of companies develop or once developed directories of sites by hardware type (AS/400, Univac, S/390, DEC, whatever). If you started with a mailing list for an enterprise software type magazine and had the budget to call every unique shop represented, you could do a pretty good job (especially back in the days when people actually answered their telephones). Once you have the list, it is a somewhat simpler task to maintain it. Such a list could be sold to the marketing, um, people - that revenue might justify the expense involved. I'm a techie at heart but I used to own a software company. Without sales people, there would have been no sales, and no jobs for programmers. Marketing is more than sales. Part of marketing's job is to make sure that the techies are building what the customers want - not an entirely bad thing. Charles Now you have done it Charles. I have been marketing and selling IBM mainframe software since starting up in 1980. There are some ego's here that can't handle this logic. IBM does not publish customer lists for obvious reasons. As I am sure you know, there are some good alternatives that can be purchased and each can be broken down by names, companies, sites, processors, etc., for both vert. and horizontal marketing opportunities. Harte-Hanks directly comes to mind but I get packages monthly with other companies providing the same service. You logic above however will get you some flames due to many that have never seen both ends of the gun. Goods luck. (E)JES me off-line what you are specifically looking for, I have been around a long time and have a pretty good handle on it. -- Kevin Keyes Director of International Operations Phoenix Software International 5200 West Century Blvd. Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 ext: 310 310-338-0801 fax www.phoenixsofware.com www.vikingsoft.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
MVS Licenses/MVS sites
Does anyone have any statistics on the current size of the MVS world? Does IBM publish any numbers? Some of the posts on this board would strongly suggest it is still shrinking. I thought the exodus was pretty much over...those shops that were going to migrate off had done so. Not so? --Dave Day -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
I think we just had this discussion a couple of months ago. There were noe definitive answers; I believe the upshot was something along the lines of: 1) Only IBM knows for sure. 2) They ain't telling. 3) Mainframe MIPS in use is increasing 4) The number of actual mainframe shops is probably decreasing. Jon snip Does anyone have any statistics on the current size of the MVS world? Does IBM publish any numbers? Some of the posts on this board would strongly suggest it is still shrinking. I thought the exodus was pretty much over...those shops that were going to migrate off had done so. Not so? /snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
Yes, I started a thread like this a few months ago. I got some useful, but non-definitive, answers. Search the archives. Those who know don't tell. Those who tell don't know. Charles -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
