Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
Also remember if DR is fairly close to base make sure they are on separate power grids or at least have generators. That is such a nebulous term, power grid. Anyone have more definite references for what that should mean? Does it just mean separate power substations? That the ultimate feed comes from completely different generating plants? Of different types? (Nuke vs Coal?) And how exactly do you find out information like that? And can't the power down the last mile be coming from one place today and other tomorrow depending on how the power company manages it? While I'm sure this is not comprehensive, this Blackout Tracker website gives some interesting insight into power outages... http://powerquality.eaton.com/blackouttracker/default.asp Jeffrey Deaver, Engineer Systems Engineering jeffrey.dea...@securian.com 651-665-4231(v) IS - Creating competitive advantage with technology. Providing service that excels. OSS - Where Innovation Happens -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
Jeffrey Deaver jeffrey.dea...@securian.com wrote in message news:ofb0fd8a87.24e5216d-on8625774c.00463f1b-8625774c.00474...@securian .com... Also remember if DR is fairly close to base make sure they are on separate power grids or at least have generators. That is such a nebulous term, power grid. Anyone have more definite references for what that should mean? Does it just mean separate power substations? That the ultimate feed comes from completely different generating plants? Of different types? (Nuke vs Coal?) And how exactly do you find out information like that? And can't the power down the last mile be coming from one place today and other tomorrow depending on how the power company manages it? While I'm sure this is not comprehensive, this Blackout Tracker website gives some interesting insight into power outages... http://powerquality.eaton.com/blackouttracker/default.asp Jeffrey Deaver, Engineer Doesn't this simply means your task is to take care that your diesel tanks are full (and large enough)? All the other options seem non-transparant and non-controllable. Kees. For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Deaver Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites Also remember if DR is fairly close to base make sure they are on separate power grids or at least have generators. That is such a nebulous term, power grid. Anyone have more definite references for what that should mean? Does it just mean separate power substations? That the ultimate feed comes from completely different generating plants? Of different types? (Nuke vs Coal?) And how exactly do you find out information like that? And can't the power down the last mile be coming from one place today and other tomorrow depending on how the power company manages it? While I'm sure this is not comprehensive, this Blackout Tracker website gives some interesting insight into power outages... http://powerquality.eaton.com/blackouttracker/default.asp SNIP The North East power outage that wrapped Lake Erie shows that EATON's map is, well, misleading. I would contact the power company that supplies power to the current HQ Data Center (as in who you pay for electricity). I would ask them what regional grid they are part of and the area that grid covers. When they ask what you mean, just say AEP and FirstEnergy, where the grid ringing Lake Erie went dark... With that information, I would compare this to the company that provides natural gas and diesel for the area where the current HQ Data Center is. And then I would find a good location out side of this supply area to put or contract for my recovery site. That's assuming that if the rest of the company is toast that my data center must be functioning... Regards, Steve Thompson -- Opinions expressed by this poster may not reflect those of poster's employer -- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
I would say that at a minimum you would want to be on separate power substations. Your power company should be able to provide this service, although they might charge extra for it. Most large IT organizations feel it's worth it. However, because of the interconnectivity in the U.S. and Canadian power grids, as well as those in other countries, there is always the possibility of a power outage you can't prepare for. I'm sure many will remember the massive power outage in 2003 where a 3,500 MW surge went through the power grid(s) in the northeast taking out power to an estimated 45 million people in eight states and 10 million people in Ontario, Canada. This included large cities such as New York, Baltimore, Buffalo, and Toronto. When this occurred Europe gloated that it had a much better system and they would never have a similar blackout. Six weeks after this there was a blackout that affected just as many people in all of Italy and parts of Switzerland. A power outage occurred in Southern Brazil in 1999 and affected approximately 90 million people. One in 2005 in Java-Bali affected 100 million people. With massive outages like this both your main site and your DR site would probably be affected unless they are on opposite sides of the world, or the DR site is on the moon. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Deaver Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites Also remember if DR is fairly close to base make sure they are on separate power grids or at least have generators. That is such a nebulous term, power grid. Anyone have more definite references for what that should mean? Does it just mean separate power substations? That the ultimate feed comes from completely different generating plants? Of different types? (Nuke vs Coal?) And how exactly do you find out information like that? And can't the power down the last mile be coming from one place today and other tomorrow depending on how the power company manages it? While I'm sure this is not comprehensive, this Blackout Tracker website gives some interesting insight into power outages... http://powerquality.eaton.com/blackouttracker/default.asp Jeffrey Deaver, Engineer Systems Engineering jeffrey.dea...@securian.com 651-665-4231(v) IS - Creating competitive advantage with technology. Providing service that excels. OSS - Where Innovation Happens -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html * If you wish to communicate securely with Commerce Bank and its affiliates, you must log into your account under Online Services at http://www.commercebank.com or use the Commerce Bank Secure Email Message Center at https://securemail.commercebank.com NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files are confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing, retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and any copies of this message from your computer system. * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
Also remember if DR is fairly close to base make sure they are on separate power grids or at least have generators. That is such a nebulous term, power grid. Anyone have more definite references for what that should mean? While I'm sure this is not comprehensive, this Blackout Tracker website gives some interesting insight into power outages... http://powerquality.eaton.com/blackouttracker/default.asp This map makes it look like there are 10 grids. There are only 4 in the US, with 2 covering the vast majority of the country. See map http://www.eia.doe.gov/electricity/page/prim2/fig15.gif DoE article: http://www.eia.doe.gov/electricity/page/prim2/chapter7.html Dennis Roach GHG Corporation Lockheed Martin Mission Services Facilities Design and Operations Contract Strategic Technical Engineering NASA/JSC Address: 2100 Space Park Drive LM-15-4BH Houston, Texas 77058 Mail: P.O. Box 58487 Mail Code H4C Houston, Texas 77258-8487 Phone: Voice: (281)336-5027 Cell: (713)591-1059 Fax:(281)336-5410 E-Mail: dennis.ro...@lmco.com All opinions expressed by me are mine and may not agree with my employer or any person, company, or thing, living or dead, on or near this or any other planet, moon, asteroid, or other spatial object, natural or manufactured, since the beginning of time. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
Kees, I do agree with you. See my post on massive power outages that have occurred around the world. The only save plan is to have a backup for the backup. You need to have a DR site on a separate power sub-station from your main site along with a UPS and generator backup. Having alternate, automatically switchable lines from separate power sub-stations coming into your main site doesn't hurt either. Of course, all of that depends on how big the shop is, how important full 24x7 is, and how much money your management wants to put into the redundancy. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Vernooij, CP - SPLXM Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:06 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites Jeffrey Deaver jeffrey.dea...@securian.com wrote in message news:ofb0fd8a87.24e5216d-on8625774c.00463f1b-8625774c.00474...@securian .com... Also remember if DR is fairly close to base make sure they are on separate power grids or at least have generators. That is such a nebulous term, power grid. Anyone have more definite references for what that should mean? Does it just mean separate power substations? That the ultimate feed comes from completely different generating plants? Of different types? (Nuke vs Coal?) And how exactly do you find out information like that? And can't the power down the last mile be coming from one place today and other tomorrow depending on how the power company manages it? While I'm sure this is not comprehensive, this Blackout Tracker website gives some interesting insight into power outages... http://powerquality.eaton.com/blackouttracker/default.asp Jeffrey Deaver, Engineer Doesn't this simply means your task is to take care that your diesel tanks are full (and large enough)? All the other options seem non-transparant and non-controllable. Kees. For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html * If you wish to communicate securely with Commerce Bank and its affiliates, you must log into your account under Online Services at http://www.commercebank.com or use the Commerce Bank Secure Email Message Center at https://securemail.commercebank.com NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files are confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing, retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and any copies of this message from your computer system. * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
Just be glad you don't have to deal with brown outs. A common occurrence in the Philippines. There are times when the power company simply turns off the supply to rural districts when they have trouble meeting peak demands. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Kelman, Tom Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:37 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites I would say that at a minimum you would want to be on separate power substations. Your power company should be able to provide this service, although they might charge extra for it. Most large IT organizations feel it's worth it. However, because of the interconnectivity in the U.S. and Canadian power grids, as well as those in other countries, there is always the possibility of a power outage you can't prepare for. I'm sure many will remember the massive power outage in 2003 where a 3,500 MW surge went through the power grid(s) in the northeast taking out power to an estimated 45 million people in eight states and 10 million people in Ontario, Canada. This included large cities such as New York, Baltimore, Buffalo, and Toronto. When this occurred Europe gloated that it had a much better system and they would never have a similar blackout. Six weeks after this there was a blackout that affected just as many people in all of Italy and parts of Switzerland. A power outage occurred in Southern Brazil in 1999 and affected approximately 90 million people. One in 2005 in Java-Bali affected 100 million people. With massive outages like this both your main site and your DR site would probably be affected unless they are on opposite sides of the world, or the DR site is on the moon. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Deaver Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 7:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites Also remember if DR is fairly close to base make sure they are on separate power grids or at least have generators. That is such a nebulous term, power grid. Anyone have more definite references for what that should mean? Does it just mean separate power substations? That the ultimate feed comes from completely different generating plants? Of different types? (Nuke vs Coal?) And how exactly do you find out information like that? And can't the power down the last mile be coming from one place today and other tomorrow depending on how the power company manages it? While I'm sure this is not comprehensive, this Blackout Tracker website gives some interesting insight into power outages... http://powerquality.eaton.com/blackouttracker/default.asp Jeffrey Deaver, Engineer Systems Engineering jeffrey.dea...@securian.com 651-665-4231(v) IS - Creating competitive advantage with technology. Providing service that excels. OSS - Where Innovation Happens -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html * If you wish to communicate securely with Commerce Bank and its affiliates, you must log into your account under Online Services at http://www.commercebank.com or use the Commerce Bank Secure Email Message Center at https://securemail.commercebank.com NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files are confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing, retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and any copies of this message from your computer system. * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
On 6/24/2010 9:06 AM, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM wrote: Doesn't this simply means your task is to take care that your diesel tanks are full (and large enough)? All the other options seem non-transparant and non-controllable. We had a power failure once that looked like it might last several days. Our ops manager decided to have the diesel tanks topped off to try to keep the generator running. When he called our regular supplier he was informed that there was plenty of diesel, but the supplier was affected by the outage as well, and couldn't pump the diesel out of his underground tanks. Fortunately the power company got the power back up about 5 hours later. For extended outages you might need multiple suppliers that also have their own generators to run the pumps. -- Richard -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
During the aftermath of Hurricane Ike, there was no supplier within a hundred miles or so with the ability to deliver fuel. Some had no power, some were flooded, some had no truck drivers. We muddled through due mostly to some heroic actions on our part. FEMA contracted with local suppliers for forklifts that included service and fuel. Some used gasoline, some diesel, some propane. No fuel was ever delivered as far as I know. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Peurifoy Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:36 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites On 6/24/2010 9:06 AM, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM wrote: Doesn't this simply means your task is to take care that your diesel tanks are full (and large enough)? All the other options seem non-transparant and non-controllable. We had a power failure once that looked like it might last several days. Our ops manager decided to have the diesel tanks topped off to try to keep the generator running. When he called our regular supplier he was informed that there was plenty of diesel, but the supplier was affected by the outage as well, and couldn't pump the diesel out of his underground tanks. Fortunately the power company got the power back up about 5 hours later. For extended outages you might need multiple suppliers that also have their own generators to run the pumps. -- Richard -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
In a message dated 6/24/2010 11:48:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time, hmerr...@jackhenry.com writes: FEMA contracted with local suppliers for forklifts that included service and fuel. Some used gasoline, some diesel, some propane. No fuel was ever delivered as far as I know My big idea was a small fleet of Hovercraft similar to what the Marines use, maybe not as well fortified, but sufficient to move around people and supplies. Never even got a reply... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
On 24 Jun 2010 07:37:22 -0700, thomas.kel...@commercebank.com (Kelman, Tom) wrote: With massive outages like this both your main site and your DR site would probably be affected unless they are on opposite sides of the world, or the DR site is on the moon. Shouldn't a shop that has backup sites also have its own disaster power supply?Sure, the infrastructure would be down, but that would be down anyway. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
Don't forget: seperate Telco exchanges. Rick Ward, Mike S wrote: Also remember if DR is fairly close to base make sure they are on separate power grids or at least have generators. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ed Finnell Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:01 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites In a message dated 6/23/2010 9:48:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time, john_w_gilm...@msn.com writes: Sometimes this magic number needs reconsideration. The right value may be 30 or 50 miles (48 or 80.5 km). A shop located in the rural American Midwest may, for example, need a more remote DR site because one so close would be too likely to suffer hurricane damage in the same incident or lose power for the same reason. There was a good presentation at SHARE following Andrew in Florida. As separation distance increases more consideration needs to placed on staffing and needs during force majure. Basically what they did was set-up family assistance center for everybody involved with DR plan even if it was just check the house and pick up the mail. Really well thought out, -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
In a message dated 6/23/2010 9:48:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time, john_w_gilm...@msn.com writes: Sometimes this magic number needs reconsideration. The right value may be 30 or 50 miles (48 or 80.5 km). A shop located in the rural American Midwest may, for example, need a more remote DR site because one so close would be too likely to suffer hurricane damage in the same incident or lose power for the same reason. There was a good presentation at SHARE following Andrew in Florida. As separation distance increases more consideration needs to placed on staffing and needs during force majure. Basically what they did was set-up family assistance center for everybody involved with DR plan even if it was just check the house and pick up the mail. Really well thought out. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
On 23 Jun 2010 07:48:44 -0700, john_w_gilm...@msn.com (john gilmore) wrote: Ed Finnell has just made the important point that these sites should be separated by at least 10 miles (16 kilometers). Sometimes this magic number needs reconsideration. The right value may be 30 or 50 miles (48 or 80.5 km). A shop located in the rural American Midwest may, for example, need a more remote DR site because one so close would be too likely to suffer hurricane damage in the same incident or lose power for the same reason. Magic numbers are excuses to not analyze. I suppose the 10 miles means not next door, but not much else.Your mention of hurricanes would apply to the Gulf and Atlantic coast more than the American Midwest - and sometimes there your larger values aren't sufficient. Nor is putting your disaster site 100 miles - up the Mississippi where the same flood can hit. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
A remote site as such should not be powered by the same electric plant It should not be using the same telephone exchange connections or the same fiber trunk. Its access should not be using the same airport or railway or road This access should be possible in the event of a earthquake or a social strike or whatever ( a quarantine because of a disease for example). Under all these considerations, analysis and recomendations ( Bale II for example) are pointing to distance of at least 100 miles but it depends of your primary location mainly. This distance is one of the reason why we cannot use Parrallel sysplex with data sharing without suffering response time problems. Under such restrictions, it is wise to use 2 sites under 8 km ( 5 miles ) distance and a third one at 200 km ( of course the 8km or 10km for sysplex can be slightly more and I do not intend to argue about, but it definitely never is a safe distance) I normally see these distances accepted only by the ones who had burnt their fingers for not respecting them. Bruno Sugliani zxnetconsult(at)free(dot)fr On Wed, 23 Jun 2010 14:48:06 +, john gilmore john_w_gilm...@msn.com wrote: Ed Finnell has just made the important point that these sites should be separated by at least 10 miles (16 kilometers). Sometimes this magic number needs reconsideration. The right value may be 30 or 50 miles (48 or 80.5 km). A shop located in the rural American Midwest may, for example, need a more remote DR site because one so close would be too likely to suffer hurricane damage in the same incident or lose power for the same reason. A client recently had such a problem, about which I had warned it; but I was not happy to have my reputation as a Cassandra confirmed again. John Gilmore Ashland, MA 01721-1817 USA _ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccountocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
I've also seen dependence upon the same communications infrastructure. If the microwave tower goes down, the backup site wasn't any more useful than the main site.This was a decade ago, and maybe some type of cloud technology has solved that problem. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
The thing that gets me about our DR, is that all of our tapes are at Iron Mountain. We are in N. Richland Hills, TX and our tapes are in Lewisville, TX which is the same geographical location (infrastructure). So if we are physically destroyed (we're close to DFW airport), then our tapes may well be in a secure area, but cannot necessarily be loaded onto a plane to go to our DR site in Philly. We even duplex so that if a plane goes down we can use the duplex. But it all depends on the tapes being able to be shipped. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of McKown, John Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 12:59 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites The thing that gets me about our DR, is that all of our tapes are at Iron Mountain. We are in N. Richland Hills, TX and our tapes are in Lewisville, TX which is the same geographical location (infrastructure). So if we are physically destroyed (we're close to DFW airport), then our tapes may well be in a secure area, but cannot necessarily be loaded onto a plane to go to our DR site in Philly. We even duplex so that if a plane goes down we can use the duplex. But it all depends on the tapes being able to be shipped. SNIP Think outside the box. There are MANY airports around, besides Addison, Denton, and Sherman. All of the ones I've named can handle large turbo-props (think C130 class) or jets (think 727/737 class). And I would imagine the air freight operators have contingency plans to use such. Regards, Steve Thompson -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
One of the lessons learned after 9/11/2001 was to contemplate the total grounding of all aviation. Very few saw that one coming! If your enterprise spans several time zones, you probably want to investigate solutions that work well over extended distances and do not require physical tape handling. And by extended distance I mean greater than 200 miles. Tom Flesher E-Net Corporation -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
-snip--- The thing that gets me about our DR, is that all of our tapes are at Iron Mountain. We are in N. Richland Hills, TX and our tapes are in Lewisville, TX which is the same geographical location (infrastructure). So if we are physically destroyed (we're close to DFW airport), then our tapes may well be in a secure area, but cannot necessarily be loaded onto a plane to go to our DR site in Philly. We even duplex so that if a plane goes down we can use the duplex. But it all depends on the tapes being able to be shipped. --unsnip I have a nephew, a photojournalist, in Dallas. We always kept a seond set of backups onsite, so if Iron Mountain or our airports, here in Chicago, were unusable, we could at least TRY to get a valid set to our DR site. Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
---snip One of the lessons learned after 9/11/2001 was to contemplate the total grounding of all aviation. Very few saw that one coming! If your enterprise spans several time zones, you probably want to investigate solutions that work well over extended distances and do not require physical tape handling. And by extended distance I mean greater than 200 miles. -unsnip-- We had a mechanism in place to do XRC from Chicago to Philiadelphia during the Great Flood of Chicago, in 1992. We soon discarded it because of the difficulties and performance impact of that sort of extension. We eventually settled for recovery over a distance of about 35 miles as the crow flies, again using XRC. It worked well for DR exercises but we never again had a real disaster that would have stressed it and made it really work. Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites
Also remember if DR is fairly close to base make sure they are on separate power grids or at least have generators. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ed Finnell Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 10:01 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Geographic separation of primary and backup/DR sites In a message dated 6/23/2010 9:48:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time, john_w_gilm...@msn.com writes: Sometimes this magic number needs reconsideration. The right value may be 30 or 50 miles (48 or 80.5 km). A shop located in the rural American Midwest may, for example, need a more remote DR site because one so close would be too likely to suffer hurricane damage in the same incident or lose power for the same reason. There was a good presentation at SHARE following Andrew in Florida. As separation distance increases more consideration needs to placed on staffing and needs during force majure. Basically what they did was set-up family assistance center for everybody involved with DR plan even if it was just check the house and pick up the mail. Really well thought out. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html == This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
