Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/10/2007 at 02:59 PM, Rick Fochtman [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Here again, I have similar experiences with medics. When I got bitten by a cottonmouth at Ft. Polk, the medic-types were worse than useless, but the guy that saved my b*tt in 'Nam after I was stung by a very large wasp had the right needle in me before I was settled firmly on the ground. (I'm deathly allergic to wasp and bee stings.) It was the NCO's and Warrants that got me to the hospital in time, while the captain kept insisting that I was malingering. One of life's little ironies was that while they thought I was malingering when I kept going on sick call for my pneumonia, they ordered me to see the doctor when I banged up my lack on the obstacle course. They kept me in the hospital for a week for a lousy bruise[1] which I was perfectly content to ignore, thus setting back my training. I find it very hard to respect a leader that doesn't do anything to earn my respect except sit in his office reading magazines and signing the rare purchase order for office supplies. I was lucky in that regard; I don't recall a company commander of that sort. [1] They called it a hematoma, but that just means bruise. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/10/2007 at 02:24 PM, Chase, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: The President of the United States get, what, a $400,000 annual salary? And a tenure limited by the Constitution to 8 years maximum. And quite a variety of perq for the rest of his life. Explain that! Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac. Even a failed president gets a huge amount of payoffas and spinoff from his presidency, and the potential for graft behind the Iron Curtain was even higher than it is here, where it is already enormous. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/10/2007 at 12:43 PM, Veilleux, Jon L [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: No, there wasn't any disciplinary action. Also, during my year over there 2 people were killed by accidental firearm discharges. See any correlation? None that wasn't predictable :-( -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Ed Gould [ snip ] I think I had similar experience. I had pneumonia and they made me walk to the hospital which was about 2 miles away. The sergeant got court martialed (sp?) I believe for making me walk there. I spent 3 or 4 weeks in the hospital. Much more recently I have spent 4 weeks in a hospital and a civilian hospital is orders of magnitude better than any army hospital. I know I felt safer as this hospital had IBM computers:) Interesting that one of our premier IBM-bashers felt safer in a place that runs IBM computers. :-D -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
In a message dated 5/11/2007 7:30:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Interesting that one of our premier IBM-bashers felt safer in a place that runs IBM computers. Our regional Hospital had a terrible outage with their dual AS/400's(and of course no backup) and decided to convert. Well all the IBMer's who were planning elective surgery booked that week for their operations. Don't think they got a single bill ever. One was a triple bypass ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
In a message dated 5/11/2007 9:43:18 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A triple bypass is elective surgery? Think it was one of those 'you probably need angioplasty' and was scheduled and suddenly started having chest pains and just went downhill...six or seven years ago. Back on his feet in about three weeks and still a CE. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
A triple bypass is elective surgery? IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote on 05/11/2007 09:45:26 AM: Our regional Hospital had a terrible outage with their dual AS/400's(and of course no backup) and decided to convert. Well all the IBMer's who were planning elective surgery booked that week for their operations. Don't think they got a single bill ever. One was a triple bypass - The information contained in this communication (including any attachments hereto) is confidential and is intended solely for the personal and confidential use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. The information may also constitute a legally privileged confidential communication. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error and that any review, dissemination, copying, or unauthorized use of this information, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. Thank you -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
On May 11, 2007, at 7:30 AM, Chase, John wrote: -SNIP Interesting that one of our premier IBM-bashers felt safer in a place that runs IBM computers. :-D John: I am flattered to think you think I am an IBM basher. I believe I am a person who calls a duck a duck. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/08/2007 at 07:10 AM, Chase, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: If you punish success, who will take the risks? How is punishing success worse than rewarding failure, which is what we currently do for high-profile CEO's? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/08/2007 at 09:04 AM, Chase, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Why would you, as a stockholder, want to hire somebody you *know* will leave you broke? The BOD doesn't consult with the stockholders when selecting a CEO. Stockholder suits asking for a more direct roles in company management have not generally fared well. The vast majority of employees are where they are because they actively and voluntarily sought to be there. Their positions did not come looking specifically for them. They had opportunity to know in advance what they were getting, Rarely; I've never been at an interview where they told me what was wrong with the company. When you're filling a position, do you tell the applicants about your dirty linen? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/08/2007 at 09:08 PM, R.S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Oh, yeas, there are such regulators! In your imagination. Invented by Marx, Engels, implemented by Lenin, tuned by Stalin. Get your red herrings while they're fresh. Been there. Where you've been has nothing to do with what the OP was suggesting. Effects: In Albania salary of minister was 2.5 times larger than cleaning lady. ROTF,LMAO! The nominal salary and the real salary were quite different. Party bosses lived high off the hog, as you know full well. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/09/2007 at 11:43 AM, Dave Kopischke [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: The Elites I'm talking about are the fictitious few who would decide on who gets what in the context of the post I was replying to. The elites that should decide such matters are the stockholders. Board decisions on, e.g., CEO salaries, termination bonuses, poison pills, should require votes by the stockholders. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/09/2007 at 09:09 PM, Ed Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I am not sure I agree with you at all on this one. Of course I look at it a little differently than a typical GI. My bosses were GS12's 13's and 14's and I think I had a GS 15 who was their boss. My limited exposure to sergeants (lifers) while some were lazy most were at least competent . The GS people I worked for were without exception were extremely competent (except for maybe 1) the officers were all over the place and one could spend hours talking about them. The civil servants, NCO's, officers and warrant officers that I encountered *after* training were mostly competent, although the paramedics in basic training almost killed me by not allowing me to see a doctor when I had pneumonia[1]. One ex-marine civil servant was a take-no-prisoners[2] manager that I would cheerfully work for again; as long as you did your job, he took care of you, he knew all of the ropes and he listened when you told him something in your area of expertise. I understand that things have changed since then. [1] I'm not sure that I had pneumonia the first time that I went on sick call, but when I collapsed after two weeks of APC they took me to the base hospital and the doctor only needed a cursory exam to be sure, although he did order a chest X-ray as confirmation. I suspect that I would only have lost a day or two had they allowed me to see a doctor when I first got sick. [2] But pleasant and polite as long as we didn't cause him problems. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/09/2007 at 03:13 PM, Veilleux, Jon L [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Interesting! I had a similar experience my second day in that 'tropical climate'. Someone was cleaning a machine gun on the table across from me and almost shot my guts out when he pulled the trigger without checking the chamber for bullets. When I was in basic, cleaning a firearm without examining it properly to ensure that it was fully unloaded would have gotten me a boot in my behind. Doing it on the range would have gotten me an Article 15 at best. Was there any disciplinary action in your case? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
snip When I was in basic, cleaning a firearm without examining it properly to ensure that it was fully unloaded would have gotten me a boot in my behind. Doing it on the range would have gotten me an Article 15 at best. Was there any disciplinary action in your case? /snip No, there wasn't any disciplinary action. Also, during my year over there 2 people were killed by accidental firearm discharges. See any correlation? Jon L. Veilleux [EMAIL PROTECTED] (860) 636-2683 This e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. Aetna -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) [ snip ] Effects: In Albania salary of minister was 2.5 times larger than cleaning lady. ROTF,LMAO! The nominal salary and the real salary were quite different. Party bosses lived high off the hog, as you know full well. The President of the United States get, what, a $400,000 annual salary? And a tenure limited by the Constitution to 8 years maximum. Yet a dozen or more people will collectively spend nearly a billion dollars to apply for that job! Explain that! -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
Chase, John wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) [ snip ] Effects: In Albania salary of minister was 2.5 times larger than cleaning lady. ROTF,LMAO! The nominal salary and the real salary were quite different. Party bosses lived high off the hog, as you know full well. The President of the United States get, what, a $400,000 annual salary? And a tenure limited by the Constitution to 8 years maximum. Yet a dozen or more people will collectively spend nearly a billion dollars to apply for that job! Explain that! -jc- At that level its not money, its the power and other perks. -- Mark Jacobs Technical Services Time Customer Service - Tampa, FL -- I will accept the rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. Robert A. Heinlein - The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (1966) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
In a message dated 5/10/2007 2:24:36 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Explain that! P O W E R! ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
---snip--- The civil servants, NCO's, officers and warrant officers that I encountered *after* training were mostly competent, although the paramedics in basic training almost killed me by not allowing me to see a doctor when I had pneumonia[1]. One ex-marine civil servant was a take-no-prisoners[2] manager that I would cheerfully work for again; as long as you did your job, he took care of you, he knew all of the ropes and he listened when you told him something in your area of expertise. I understand that things have changed since then. (Footnotes deleted) ---unsnip Here again, I have similar experiences with medics. When I got bitten by a cottonmouth at Ft. Polk, the medic-types were worse than useless, but the guy that saved my b*tt in 'Nam after I was stung by a very large wasp had the right needle in me before I was settled firmly on the ground. (I'm deathly allergic to wasp and bee stings.) It was the NCO's and Warrants that got me to the hospital in time, while the captain kept insisting that I was malingering. Captain was a real martinet! Many of the management types I've worked under have been of similar nature; not all, but many. I find it very hard to respect a leader that doesn't do anything to earn my respect except sit in his office reading magazines and signing the rare purchase order for office supplies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
On May 10, 2007, at 6:54 AM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote: -- SNIP [1] I'm not sure that I had pneumonia the first time that I went on sick call, but when I collapsed after two weeks of APC they took me to the base hospital and the doctor only needed a cursory exam to be sure, although he did order a chest X-ray as confirmation. I suspect that I would only have lost a day or two had they allowed me to see a doctor when I first got sick. I think I had similar experience. I had pneumonia and they made me walk to the hospital which was about 2 miles away. The sergeant got court martialed (sp?) I believe for making me walk there. I spent 3 or 4 weeks in the hospital. Much more recently I have spent 4 weeks in a hospital and a civilian hospital is orders of magnitude better than any army hospital. I know I felt safer as this hospital had IBM computers:) Ed [2] But pleasant and polite as long as we didn't cause him problems. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
The problem with CEO compensation is twofold. It is not based on company performance as witnessed by Robert Nardelli at Home Depot who got a nice 210 million dollar going away present for performance so bad that investors lost money during his reign. Secondly, boards of directors, specifically the executive compensation committees are usually friends of the CEO and therefore are negligent in their fiduciary responsibilities to the shareholders. Bill Johnson Robert Justice [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How much do *you* think a CEO is worth? most of them, not even worth five cents. However, for the few (and I do mean few) good ones, no more than a couple of million dollars, tops. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html - Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
SNIP And why pick on CEOs ??? You should be going after anyone who earns more than the amount the elites decide is too much and probably anyone who earns less than the amount the elites decide is too little. Wouldn't that be fair ??? Or maybe that would be too fair ??? /snip What elites are you talking about? Is that a synonym for 'liberal'??? The ones who decide on CEO compensation now are mostly CEOs from other companies who are on the boards of directors of multiple companies. I know you're not talking about them, but those are the true 'elites'. Jon L. Veilleux [EMAIL PROTECTED] (860) 636-2683 This e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. Aetna -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
On Wed, 9 May 2007 07:26:34 -0400, Veilleux, Jon L wrote: What elites are you talking about? Is that a synonym for 'liberal'??? The ones who decide on CEO compensation now are mostly CEOs from other companies who are on the boards of directors of multiple companies. I know you're not talking about them, but those are the true 'elites'. The Elites I'm talking about are the fictitious few who would decide on who gets what in the context of the post I was replying to. Any synonym you attach to my post is your responsibility. I specify no political persuasion, race, creed or color on purpose. I don't think it's relevant. I don't think you know to whom I am referring. I sense you feel I am blanketly defending boards of directors or some such thing. In fact, I would include many of them in those who feel they are the ruling class. But not all. As many other posts have already explained, they have a job to do. If they don't do that job responsibly, they are not acting in the best interest of the company nor the shareholders. In that, their lack of fiduciary responsibility may be prosecutable, but it's tough to prove. So in that sense, they are relatively untouchable. There are good people and there are bad people. Some of each will be on boards of directors. Hopefully all your holdings will be in companies with more good than bad. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
I went the other way in the Army, finding myself in a tropical climate where the main diet was rice, with a few vegetables and maybe a water buffalo, when the gunner forgot to clear the M2-HB before attempting to clean it. In my (somewhat limited) experience, the officers were there to get some combat time, and pay, into their service records, as a stepping stone to further promotion. Net result: the sergeants ran the Army while the officers fought the battles and collected the medals. Needless to say, I have a very low opinion of high-flying leaders that don't share the hardships of those who are led. Ed Gould wrote: On May 8, 2007, at 9:04 AM, Chase, John wrote: --SNIP- It's always the privates who get shot, bombed, stabbed, burned, etc., while occasionally a general will get forced retirement but more often will acquire another command with another bunch of privates to get shot, bombed, stabbed, burned, etc. Life itself is unfair. Deal with it the best you can, and when the time comes, move on. John, I agree with you on this issue ... somewhat. I was in the Army (over in Germany) and our base was a 'stepping stone for generals. They came in a 1 star and one year (more or less) later they became a 2 star. We weren't even close to the trench's (so to speak) we were a command so no one really got hurt (per se) by any screwups the General may have caused. In a side issue (humorous) one of our subordinate bases when polled at 11PM reported they were under attack by the communist. Since they reported an attack we had to wake up our General to inform him of the situation. The colonel (IIRC), in charge of that base, was reduced in rank to a Captain(?) and was basically told to retire. All this from a sergeant who couldn't read a code book. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rick Fochtman) writes: I went the other way in the Army, finding myself in a tropical climate where the main diet was rice, with a few vegetables and maybe a water buffalo, when the gunner forgot to clear the M2-HB before attempting to clean it. In my (somewhat limited) experience, the officers were there to get some combat time, and pay, into their service records, as a stepping stone to further promotion. Net result: the sergeants ran the Army while the officers fought the battles and collected the medals. Needless to say, I have a very low opinion of high-flying leaders that don't share the hardships of those who are led. re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#61 Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM? for other boyd drift, he did yr running datacenter at spook base ... possibly largest in the world ... at least in the fareast, at the time, claim was that it represented a $2.5B windfall for IBM. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005t.html#1 Dangerous Hardware http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005t.html#2 Dangerous Hardware http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005t.html#5 Dangerous Hardware http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#51 Where can you get a Minor in Mainframe? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#13 The Perfect Computer - 36 bits? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#4 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies and for other drift ... boyd's briefing on organic design for command and control ... past posts mentioning the briefing http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#8 scheduling dynamic adaptive ... long posting warning http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#34 War, Chaos, Business (web site), or Col John Boyd http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#33 Star Trek: TNG reference http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#34 Star Trek: TNG reference http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003h.html#46 employee motivation executive compensation http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#25 Timeless Classics of Software Engineering http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#34 I am an ageing techy, expert on everything. Let me explain the http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#69 Organizations with two or more Managers http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005e.html#1 [Lit.] Buffer overruns http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005e.html#2 [Lit.] Buffer overruns http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005e.html#3 Computerworld Article: Dress for Success? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#14 Why? (Was: US Military Dead during Iraq War http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006q.html#41 was change headers: The Fate of VM - was: Re: Baby MVS??? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#25 Special characters in passwords was Re: RACF - Password rules http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#35 ANN: Microsoft goes Open Source and as before ... lots of other past posts mentioning Boyd as well as other URLs from around the web http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
My son is sgt in iraq at moment (4th tour of duty in ME). Other than diet and humidity, little has changed. he is battle nco running a unit. when battle captain is not there, he has to do that job in addition to his own. before deploy, he had a mandatory training mission. he had to (politely?) tell officers no you can't cut out mandatory training to save time. www.anysoldier.com a clever person will figure out which poster is he. If you find the cartoons of cat and picture of the guy proudly holding trap w/rat, you are there. IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote on 05/09/2007 02:11:58 PM: I went the other way in the Army, finding myself in a tropical climate where the main diet was rice, with a few vegetables and maybe a water buffalo, when the gunner forgot to clear the M2-HB before attempting to clean it. In my (somewhat limited) experience, the officers were there to get some combat time, and pay, into their service records, as a stepping stone to further promotion. Net result: the sergeants ran the Army while the officers fought the battles and collected the medals. Needless to say, I have a very low opinion of high-flying leaders that don't share the hardships of those who are led. - The information contained in this communication (including any attachments hereto) is confidential and is intended solely for the personal and confidential use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. The information may also constitute a legally privileged confidential communication. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error and that any review, dissemination, copying, or unauthorized use of this information, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. Thank you -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
On Wed, 9 May 2007 14:43:46 -0400, Kirk Talman wrote: My son is sgt in iraq at moment (4th tour of duty in ME). Other than diet and humidity, little has changed. he is battle nco running a unit. when battle captain is not there, he has to do that job in addition to his own. before deploy, he had a mandatory training mission. he had to (politely?) tell officers no you can't cut out mandatory training to save time. www.anysoldier.com Thanks for posting this URL !!! I've been looking for something like this for a while. All I could do previously is send to friends, relatives and acquantances. But that leaves a lot out. I know a bunch of Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts who aren't afraid to be proud of these heros. We'll be sending some toys and trinkets. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
snip I went the other way in the Army, finding myself in a tropical climate where the main diet was rice, with a few vegetables and maybe a water buffalo, when the gunner forgot to clear the M2-HB before attempting to clean it. /snip Interesting! I had a similar experience my second day in that 'tropical climate'. Someone was cleaning a machine gun on the table across from me and almost shot my guts out when he pulled the trigger without checking the chamber for bullets. It wasn't a pleasant experience. Jon Jon L. Veilleux [EMAIL PROTECTED] (860) 636-2683 This e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. Aetna -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
On May 9, 2007, at 1:11 PM, Rick Fochtman wrote: I went the other way in the Army, finding myself in a tropical climate where the main diet was rice, with a few vegetables and maybe a water buffalo, when the gunner forgot to clear the M2-HB before attempting to clean it. In my (somewhat limited) experience, the officers were there to get some combat time, and pay, into their service records, as a stepping stone to further promotion. Net result: the sergeants ran the Army while the officers fought the battles and collected the medals. Needless to say, I have a very low opinion of high-flying leaders that don't share the hardships of those who are led. Ed Gould wrote: SNIP Rick, I am not sure I agree with you at all on this one. Of course I look at it a little differently than a typical GI. My bosses were GS12's 13's and 14's and I think I had a GS 15 who was their boss. My limited exposure to sergeants (lifers) while some were lazy most were at least competent . The GS people I worked for were without exception were extremely competent (except for maybe 1) the officers were all over the place and one could spend hours talking about them. To get back on topic (a little) none of the military (lifer) types that I worked with day in and day out had ever seen an IBM mainframe before they came to our base. I had one warrant officer tell me there was no difference between DOS and MFT. I told him go ahead and try to code dos JCL and run it under MFT and come back and show me where it worked. He never came back. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman snip-- Not all the people will suffer. The CEO's will rake in even more money. first response We should start by offshoring the CEO's ;-) unsnip Then raise their taxes such that the more they make, the less they get to keep. Same for major stockholders, either corporate or individual! If you punish success, who will take the risks? -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Robert Justice exactly, we need to cut ceo compensation by 90% in this country, and in some cases, like the one idiot that got almost 400 million, by 99%. Perhaps we should consider dumbing ourselves down to the point that we, too, can get $400M. -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
Chase, John wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman snip-- Not all the people will suffer. The CEO's will rake in even more money. first response We should start by offshoring the CEO's ;-) unsnip Then raise their taxes such that the more they make, the less they get to keep. Same for major stockholders, either corporate or individual! If you punish success, who will take the risks? You seem to be saying that the people who get the rewards, i.e. executives, stockholders,..., are responsible for the success of the enterprise. What about the efforts of thousands of employees whose only rewards are to be paid as little as possible and are then discarded like yesterdays garbage whenever necessary. The enterprise wouldn't be a going concern without them. The people who run the computers, shuffle papers, work with customers are the real heroes. The average executive is vastly overpaid with a ego that wouldn't fit in the Superdome. -- Mark Jacobs Technical Services Time Customer Service - Tampa, FL -- I will accept the rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. Robert A. Heinlein - The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (1966) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
snip If you punish success, who will take the risks? /snip CEO's don't face the risks for their failures. Their pay and benefits are guaranteed. In my experience it is the employees (through lower pay, lost benefits, and/or lost jobs) and the stockholders who pay the price for CEO failure. A CEO who destroys a company will just get his millions in severance and then move on to destory another company. Jon L. Veilleux [EMAIL PROTECTED] (860) 636-2683 This e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. Aetna -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of [various] CEO's don't face the risks for their failures. Their pay and benefits are guaranteed. If they don't face risks, how/why do they get guarantees like that? What, exactly, does a CEO do to warrant their exorbitant compensation packages and guarantees? Perhaps you should ask the people who pay them. In my experience it is the employees (through lower pay, lost benefits, and/or lost jobs) and the stockholders who pay the price for CEO failure. It's always the privates who get shot, bombed, stabbed, burned, etc., while occasionally a general will get forced retirement but more often will acquire another command with another bunch of privates to get shot, bombed, stabbed, burned, etc. Life itself is unfair. Deal with it the best you can, and when the time comes, move on. A CEO who destroys a company will just get his millions in severance and then move on to destory another company. Why do companies seek to hire a CEO who has established a reputation as a destroyer? Why would you, as a stockholder, want to hire somebody you *know* will leave you broke? You seem to be saying that the people who get the rewards, i.e. executives, stockholders,..., are responsible for the success of the enterprise. What about the efforts of thousands of employees whose only rewards are to be paid as little as possible and are then discarded like yesterdays garbage whenever necessary. Aren't they? If not for them, who would provide the meager rewards for the paper-pushers, button-pressers, etc.? How much new or repeat business (revenue) have you, personally, brought in for your current employer? Did you get a piece of it? If not, why not? How much of your employer's stock were you expected to purchase from your own assets, as a pre-condition for being allowed to work there? How much of your compensation do you receive as company stock or stock options? How much do *you* think a CEO is worth? The enterprise wouldn't be a going concern without them. The people who run the computers, shuffle papers, work with customers are the real heroes. The average executive is vastly overpaid with a ego that wouldn't fit in the Superdome. Are you a CEO? If not, why not? The vast majority of employees are where they are because they actively and voluntarily sought to be there. Their positions did not come looking specifically for them. They had opportunity to know in advance what they were getting, and they chose to accept it. They also, by and large, have the absolute right to tell their boss to take this job and shove it at any time of their own choosing. -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
On 7 May 2007 19:06:18 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rick Fochtman) wrote: We should start by offshoring the CEO's ;-) unsnip Then raise their taxes such that the more they make, the less they get to keep. So the CEOs get offshored where they don't have to pay as much taxes. What good does that do us? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
How much do *you* think a CEO is worth? most of them, not even worth five cents. However, for the few (and I do mean few) good ones, no more than a couple of million dollars, tops. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
On 8 May 2007 09:28:38 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Robert Justice) wrote: How much do *you* think a CEO is worth? most of them, not even worth five cents. However, for the few (and I do mean few) good ones, no more than a couple of million dollars, tops. What process should stockholders use to determine how much their CEOs are worth? Do you have any investments in stocks? If that is inadequate, what process should regulators or legislatures use? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
Robert Justice wrote: exactly, we need to cut ceo compensation by 90% in this country, and in some cases, like the one idiot that got almost 400 million, by 99%. Huh?? Lee Raymond was certainly no idiot! In his 12 years as CEO he handled take-overs of -- among others -- Canada's Imperial Oil, oversaw (what was then) the largest corporate merger in history with Mobil Oil, led ExxonMobil to garner Forbes' prestigious #1 Company in America rating, and increased the stock price by over 500%! Under his leadership, ExxonMobil made tremendous improvements in technology and productivity, invented and patented new lubricants and other industry-related technologies, built a massive pipeline from Canada (our largest supplier of foreign oil) to the Gulf of Mexico to help mitigate future hurricane-related disruptions, and invested $ billions in new exploration both domestically and abroad. XOM shareholders overwhelmingly agree Mr. Raymond's accomplishments were worth every penny awarded him by the board -- literally a drop in the bucket when compared to the company's capitalization and quarterly dividend payout. If you took his final payout after 12 years of service and divided it evenly by the 20 million individual XOM shareholders, it would come to only about $1.65 per year per shareholder. If you further weighted shareholder contributions by shares of common stock held (as is done for dividends), the amount paid by an ordinary individual shareholder like me would be just a few pennies. Trust me, XOM dividends pay a *lot* better than that -- with a current forward annual dividend rate of about $1.40/share! Then again, if you were an XOM stock holder, you would already know that ... -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
Edward Jaffe wrote: Robert Justice wrote: exactly, we need to cut ceo compensation by 90% in this country, and in some cases, like the one idiot that got almost 400 million, by 99%. Huh?? Lee Raymond was certainly no idiot! In his 12 years as CEO he handled take-overs of -- among others -- Canada's Imperial Oil, oversaw (what was then) the largest corporate merger in history with Mobil Oil, led ExxonMobil to garner Forbes' prestigious #1 Company in America rating, and increased the stock price by over 500%! Under his leadership, ExxonMobil made tremendous improvements in technology and productivity, invented and patented new lubricants and other industry-related technologies, built a massive pipeline from Canada (our largest supplier of foreign oil) to the Gulf of Mexico to help mitigate future hurricane-related disruptions, and invested $ billions in new exploration both domestically and abroad. XOM shareholders overwhelmingly agree Mr. Raymond's accomplishments were worth every penny awarded him by the board -- literally a drop in the bucket when compared to the company's capitalization and quarterly dividend payout. If you took his final payout after 12 years of service and divided it evenly by the 20 million individual XOM shareholders, it would come to only about $1.65 per year per shareholder. If you further weighted shareholder contributions by shares of common stock held (as is done for dividends), the amount paid by an ordinary individual shareholder like me would be just a few pennies. Trust me, XOM dividends pay a *lot* better than that -- with a current forward annual dividend rate of about $1.40/share! Then again, if you were an XOM stock holder, you would already know that ... One man/person doesn't do it all. Exxon/Mobil succeeded because of the efforts of all its employees not only the CEO. -- Mark Jacobs Technical Services Time Customer Service - Tampa, FL -- I will accept the rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. Robert A. Heinlein - The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (1966) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
On 8 May 2007 11:24:54 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Edward Jaffe) wrote: XOM shareholders overwhelmingly agree Mr. Raymond's accomplishments were worth every penny awarded him by the board -- literally a drop in the bucket when compared to the company's capitalization and quarterly dividend payout. Would the stockholders have been better off by paying him either half that amount or twice that amount? Did some other company offer him $399,999.999.99 so they needed to pay him more to keep him? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
Mark Jacobs wrote: One man/person doesn't do it all. Exxon/Mobil succeeded because of the efforts of all its employees not only the CEO. Exactly right! Employee morale under Mr. Raymond's leadership was *extremely* high! Such unprecedented corporate success requires true leadership and, by all accounts, Mr. Raymond was that leader. Rex Tillerson has some very big shoes to fill. So far, he seems to be doing a great job! -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
Take it to a politics group please. Where is the list owner? -Original Message- XOM shareholders overwhelmingly agree Mr. Raymond's accomplishments were worth every penny awarded him by the board -- literally a drop in the bucket when compared to the company's capitalization and quarterly dividend payout. Would the stockholders have been better off by paying him either half that amount or twice that amount? Did some other company offer him $399,999.999.99 so they needed to pay him more to keep him? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
Howard Brazee wrote: On 8 May 2007 09:28:38 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Robert Justice) wrote: How much do *you* think a CEO is worth? most of them, not even worth five cents. However, for the few (and I do mean few) good ones, no more than a couple of million dollars, tops. What process should stockholders use to determine how much their CEOs are worth? Do you have any investments in stocks? If that is inadequate, what process should regulators or legislatures use? Oh, yeas, there are such regulators! Invented by Marx, Engels, implemented by Lenin, tuned by Stalin. Been there. Effects: In Albania salary of minister was 2.5 times larger than cleaning lady. Lenin said: in communism, even charlady could be a minister in the government. Don't ask how well people do in Albania. Or Poland 18 years ago. Avg salary was approx. 300 USD per year (three hundred). Obviously our goods i.e. bread or meat were cheaper than in wester Europe, but not cars, TV sets, computers, etc. etc. To all interested in fair salary paradise and regulators: go to North Korea or Cuba. See it. In free world CEO salary is NOT regulated, like mine or your salary. It is comes from free market. Market decides that my work is worth more than turner's work and much less than Claudia Schiffer's work. Market decides that tomatos are cheaper than caviar. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland P.S. I know it's off-topic, but I couldm't resist. -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2007 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci opacony) wynosi 118.064.140 z. W zwizku z realizacj warunkowego podwyszenia kapitau zakadowego, na podstawie uchwa XVI WZ z dnia 21.05.2003 r., kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA moe ulec podwyszeniu do kwoty 118.760.528 z. Akcje w podwyszonym kapitale zakadowym bd w caoci opacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
Howard Brazee wrote: Would the stockholders have been better off by paying him either half that amount or twice that amount? Did some other company offer him $399,999.999.99 so they needed to pay him more to keep him? I doubt he ever considered working elsewhere. Raymond was a loyal ExxonMobil employee for over 40 years. He joined the company in 1963, rose through the ranks, became a director in 1984, president in 1987, and CEO and Chairman in 1999. From Wikipedia: On August 4, 2005, Raymond announced that he would retire at the end of 2005 as ExxonMobil's Chairman and CEO. ExxonMobil president Rex W. Tillerson succeeded Raymond on 1 January 2006. On April 14, 2006, it was reported that Raymond's retirement package was worth about $400 million, the largest in history for a U.S. public company. However, the majority of that sum consisted of retirement-independent salary, bonuses, stock options, and restricted stock awards from his final year and prior years that, while high, are by no means unprecedented among major American CEOs. Retirement-specific payments in accordance with the standard pension plan provided to all ExxonMobil employees totaled around $100 million, calculated based on his over forty years of service and his salary upon retirement. And let's not forget that large corporations like ExxonMobil are big mainframe users. They run z/OS on the latest processor hardware in all sorts of configurations. ExxonMobil and other large companies like them are keeping our platform afloat! They are our customers; they are our employers; they are our colleagues. There was a discussion a while ago entitled, Turning Off the People We Might Want to Hire in which participants discussed maintaining professionalism and not dissing potential employers while discussing mainframe-related topics on IBM-Main. The direction this thread has taken seems to be headed dangerously in the wrong direction for some people. Blatant displays of jealousy and class envy don't look good on ones Resumi (aka C.V. for European readers). -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
In a message dated 5/7/2007 10:19:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ... we need to cut ceo compensation by 90% in this country... Who is we and how do we do that? Pass a law? With or without 100 pages of fine print? Who enforces it? How do we keep him from being bribed not to enforce the law? Lawyers exist to redefine crime so it looks legal and ethical. Show me a law and I will show you a loophole. Just like a computer system that has been modified and patched hundreds of times until it is a nest of snakes, you sometimes have to redesign the whole thing. First we all need to understand how our system really works. Picking on the top dog is not a realistic solution. Somebody please kill this political thread. Bill Fairchild Plainfield, IL Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. [Denis Diderot; 1713-1784] ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
Darren, Please kill this thread. Repetitive use of the delete key is giving us carpel tunnel. Somebody please kill this political thread. Bill Fairchild Plainfield, IL Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. [Denis Diderot; 1713-1784] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
Radoslaw Neither can I - with reference to your P.S. We pretend to work; they pretend to pay us. I've seen it even if I haven't done it - somewhat further to the East of where you are - and what a waste it was! Chris Mason - Original Message - From: R.S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 9:08 PM Subject: Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM? Howard Brazee wrote: On 8 May 2007 09:28:38 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Robert Justice) wrote: How much do *you* think a CEO is worth? most of them, not even worth five cents. However, for the few (and I do mean few) good ones, no more than a couple of million dollars, tops. What process should stockholders use to determine how much their CEOs are worth? Do you have any investments in stocks? If that is inadequate, what process should regulators or legislatures use? Oh, yeas, there are such regulators! Invented by Marx, Engels, implemented by Lenin, tuned by Stalin. Been there. Effects: In Albania salary of minister was 2.5 times larger than cleaning lady. Lenin said: in communism, even charlady could be a minister in the government. Don't ask how well people do in Albania. Or Poland 18 years ago. Avg salary was approx. 300 USD per year (three hundred). Obviously our goods i.e. bread or meat were cheaper than in wester Europe, but not cars, TV sets, computers, etc. etc. To all interested in fair salary paradise and regulators: go to North Korea or Cuba. See it. In free world CEO salary is NOT regulated, like mine or your salary. It is comes from free market. Market decides that my work is worth more than turner's work and much less than Claudia Schiffer's work. Market decides that tomatos are cheaper than caviar. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland P.S. I know it's off-topic, but I couldm't resist. -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
On Mon, 7 May 2007 22:12:43 -0400, Robert Justice wrote: exactly, we need to cut ceo compensation by 90% in this country, and in some cases, like the one idiot that got almost 400 million, by 99%. I'd really like to be that stupid. For that kind of money, you can call me whatever names you want. I read a story the other day about some hedge fund managers making over a Billion dollars last year (that's with a capial B). And if you follow the Wall Street link on Ed's link to Forbes, you'll see a similar article. At the risk of offending some, I think you should be able to get whatever you can negotiate. More to the point; Why would you deny someone the right to earn whatever they can ??? If you run through this list, you'll find complaints about offshore types working for too little. Then you'll find complaints about CEO types earning too much. What is the right amount ??? And who is going to make those rules ??? Are you saying everyone should make the same amount ??? Or maybe you'd like to vote on how much your neighbor earns ??? Or maybe dictate what your neighbor earns ??? Or is it that you want to let them earn that much as long as they slide you a bit ??? And why pick on CEOs ??? You should be going after anyone who earns more than the amount the elites decide is too much and probably anyone who earns less than the amount the elites decide is too little. Wouldn't that be fair ??? Or maybe that would be too fair ??? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
On Tue, 8 May 2007 21:08:26 +0200, R.S. wrote: Oh, yeas, there are such regulators! Invented by Marx, Engels, implemented by Lenin, tuned by Stalin. Been there. Wisdom from someone who's been where this thread is headed. Be careful of what you wish for. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
You mean the amount of compensation Adolf Hitler was entitled to? That was easy to understand. Anything he wanted, no questions asked. G, D, R (From Darren) :-) On Tue, 8 May 2007 16:11:10 -0500, Dave Kopischke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 8 May 2007 21:08:26 +0200, R.S. wrote: Oh, yeas, there are such regulators! Invented by Marx, Engels, implemented by Lenin, tuned by Stalin. Been there. Wisdom from someone who's been where this thread is headed. Be careful of what you wish for. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
What Risks? They make a decision which is either good or bad? The input provided in making this decision is provided by subordinates. CEOs are simply paid to much. When someone in their company is looking to get a 3% percent raise they say we can't afford that Are you trying to put this company in financial ruin Chase, John wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman snip-- Not all the people will suffer. The CEO's will rake in even more money. first response We should start by offshoring the CEO's ;-) unsnip Then raise their taxes such that the more they make, the less they get to keep. Same for major stockholders, either corporate or individual! If you punish success, who will take the risks? -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
On May 8, 2007, at 9:04 AM, Chase, John wrote: --SNIP- It's always the privates who get shot, bombed, stabbed, burned, etc., while occasionally a general will get forced retirement but more often will acquire another command with another bunch of privates to get shot, bombed, stabbed, burned, etc. Life itself is unfair. Deal with it the best you can, and when the time comes, move on. John, I agree with you on this issue ... somewhat. I was in the Army (over in Germany) and our base was a 'stepping stone for generals. They came in a 1 star and one year (more or less) later they became a 2 star. We weren't even close to the trench's (so to speak) we were a command so no one really got hurt (per se) by any screwups the General may have caused. In a side issue (humorous) one of our subordinate bases when polled at 11PM reported they were under attack by the communist. Since they reported an attack we had to wake up our General to inform him of the situation. The colonel (IIRC), in charge of that base, was reduced in rank to a Captain(?) and was basically told to retire. All this from a sergeant who couldn't read a code book. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed Gould) writes: John, I agree with you on this issue ... somewhat. I was in the Army (over in Germany) and our base was a 'stepping stone for generals. They came in a 1 star and one year (more or less) later they became a 2 star. We weren't even close to the trench's (so to speak) we were a command so no one really got hurt (per se) by any screwups the General may have caused. In a side issue (humorous) one of our subordinate bases when polled at 11PM reported they were under attack by the communist. Since they reported an attack we had to wake up our General to inform him of the situation. The colonel (IIRC), in charge of that base, was reduced in rank to a Captain(?) and was basically told to retire. All this from a sergeant who couldn't read a code book. Boyd had lots of run in with generals ... just one of his old stories http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#14 Why? (Was: US Military Dead during Iraq War past post w/reference to dedication of Boyd Hall, United States Air Force Weapons School, Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada. 17 September 1999 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#20 MS to world: Stop sending money, we have enough - was Re: Most ... can't run Vista http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#74 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies ... There are two career paths in front of you, and you have to choose which path you will follow. One path leads to promotions, titles, and positions of distinction The other path leads to doing things that are truly significant for the Air Force, but the rewards will quite often be a kick in the stomach because you may have to cross swords with the party line on occasion. You can't go down both paths, you have to choose. Do you want to be a man of distinction or do you want to do things that really influence the shape of the Air Force? To be or to do, that is the question. Colonel John R. Boyd, USAF 1927-1997 ... snip ... misc. past posts mentioning Boyd http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd misc. URLs from around the web mentioning Boyd http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd2 ... there have also been corporate stepping stone positions ... for individuals that got put on fast track. Woe was you if the head position of your organization was designated as a fast track stepping stone ... there could be turn-over in the position every six months. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
snip When we take the easy choice for short term protection, we're betraying my grandchildren's future.That's the nature of politics, but I value them more. /snip Short term and long term we need to make a level field. That involves making trade agreements that have a minimum set of protections for workers. That is within the perview of our lawmakers. Otherwise it is a global race to the bottom for all workers and we will all suffer. Jon L. Veilleux [EMAIL PROTECTED] (860) 636-2683 This e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. Aetna -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/07/2007 at 08:42 AM, Howard Brazee [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Yes, the competition hurts me.But passing a law saying we can't have foreign partners is passing a law saying we can't have foreign customers. However, lowering barriers in one direction while retaining barriers in the other direction doesn't help. Allowing companies to lie with impunity in visa applications doesn't help. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
snip-- Not all the people will suffer. The CEO's will rake in even more money. first response We should start by offshoring the CEO's ;-) unsnip Then raise their taxes such that the more they make, the less they get to keep. Same for major stockholders, either corporate or individual! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
exactly, we need to cut ceo compensation by 90% in this country, and in some cases, like the one idiot that got almost 400 million, by 99%. - Original Message - From: Rick Fochtman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 10:05 PM Subject: Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM? snip-- Not all the people will suffer. The CEO's will rake in even more money. first response We should start by offshoring the CEO's ;-) unsnip Then raise their taxes such that the more they make, the less they get to keep. Same for major stockholders, either corporate or individual! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
On May 7, 2007, at 9:05 PM, Rick Fochtman wrote: snip-- Not all the people will suffer. The CEO's will rake in even more money. first response We should start by offshoring the CEO's ;-) unsnip Then raise their taxes such that the more they make, the less they get to keep. Same for major stockholders, either corporate or individual! Rick, It will never be done, just like election financing will never really be done. There are just too many golden goats out there. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
In a message dated 5/7/2007 9:13:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: exactly, we need to cut ceo compensation by 90% in this country, and in some cases, like the one idiot that got almost 400 million, by 99%. Which one? _http://www.forbes.com/home/leadership/2007/05/03/highest-paid-ceos-lead-07ceo -cz_sd_0503ceo_land.html_ (http://www.forbes.com/home/leadership/2007/05/03/highest-paid-ceos-lead-07ceo-cz_sd_0503ceo_land.html) or tiny'd _http://tinyurl.com/ypudsr_ (http://tinyurl.com/ypudsr) ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
AMEN! Bill From: Robert Justice [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM? Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 20:15:55 -0400 I just wonder how long it's going to be before people finally WAKE UP in this country and quit putting up with the offshoring, the outsourcing, the free trade b.s, the H1B visa SCAM and completely idiotic ceo compensation. . -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html _ Download Messenger. Join the im Initiative. Help make a difference today. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
Did anyone read this? Yes, and I've lived it! - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
I just wonder how long it's going to be before people finally WAKE UP in this country and quit putting up with the offshoring, the outsourcing, the free trade b.s, the H1B visa SCAM and completely idiotic ceo compensation. . -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
When will we ditch Capitalism ? Kill us, Darren ! -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Justice Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 8:16 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM? I just wonder how long it's going to be before people finally WAKE UP in this country and quit putting up with the offshoring, the outsourcing, the free trade b.s, the H1B visa SCAM and completely idiotic ceo compensation. . -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
capitalism is one thing, CORPORATE GREED AND CORPORATE STUPIDITY is something else entirely. - Original Message - From: Campbell Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 9:13 PM Subject: Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM? When will we ditch Capitalism ? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
Different topic... Sorry -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Justice Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 9:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM? capitalism is one thing, CORPORATE GREED AND CORPORATE STUPIDITY is something else entirely. - Original Message - From: Campbell Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 9:13 PM Subject: Re: Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM? When will we ditch Capitalism ? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
