Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
AFAIK, the COBOL compiler is not written in COBOL. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Finnell Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:52 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e In a message dated 11/23/2005 3:14:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You may not run the compiler under z/os.e. The COBOL program must have been complied using LE runtimes. There is no restriction found as to which compliers may be used. >> Other than the one in the first sentence? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
Or, you could use file 730 from the CBT. It is a modified CEEPIPI that accepts a program name from the parm. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Russell Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 8:03 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e >Date:Thu, 24 Nov 2005 01:19:28 -0700 >From:"William M. Klein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Fw: Running COBOL under z/os.e FWIW I have modified the CEEPIPI sample program and tested it on z/OS.e. Obviously you cannot compile the COBOL program on z/OS.e but you can run the program object. The program currently loads a hard coded program name but could be modified to fetch any program. If anyone would like a copy I will send it along. Tom Russell -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
>I was thinking of CGIs. I was also thinking of the HTTPD server. We >don't have Websphere. Perhaps Websphere has things in it to make >developing CGI-like applications in COBOL easier. When we tried to do >CGI in COBOL a few years ago, it was very difficult due to not being >able to use "stdin" and "stdout" directly from COBOL code, using COBOL >verbs. I haven't looked at this since installing Enterprise COBOL, so >maybe it is easier now. Ah. Well, J2EE is a complete replacement for CGI (and then some). There's something called JNI if you absolutely positively must make a native platform-specific call, but there are vanishingly few reasons to do that. CGI has fallen out of fashion (industry wide) for a variety of reasons. Aside: WebSphere Application Server for z/OS is unique in being able to run COBOL as EJBs (Enterprise Java Beans -- don't take the "Java" too literally here). The COBOL code appears as "Java" objects within the WebSphere runtime, interacting with ordinary EJBs. None of that is CGI, though, and it wouldn't require a C compiler. >Plus, I'm trying to get my C compiler back . Not likely as I'm the >only C literate person here on the z/OS side. The Windows side might >have some C people. Although from what I know of them, they are all >VB.Net people now. OK. Well, in that case, you should probably go into the z/OS Web Services business. Make everything (or at least almost everything) accessible as VB.Net-friendly Web Services. "Update account" a Web Service. "Query account(s)" a Web Service. Everything you possibly can, starting with the important ones (from an application perspective). Then you're relevant -- you have a directory (yes, directory) of oh-so-easy to use services that VB.Net developers can just grab-and-go. (It's also pretty easy to do in many different ways.) VB.Net really doesn't know much about anything else -- including core business function -- unless it looks like a database (ODBC) or a Web Service (SOAP/WSDL). (Yes, it's that stupid. :-)) If all the valuable stuff (i.e. your mainframe apps) doesn't look like either one (especially SOAP/WSDL) then, of course, that mainframe stuff will be everything you mentioned. It'll be like an interstate highway with no on-ramps. Now I can't think of anything more proprietary than VB.Net, and even Microsoft isn't sure what to do with legacy VB. (Q: How do you bring classic VB to the Web? A: With major difficulty.) But the beauty of Web Services is that when your company changes its mind about its primary development environment you're still in very good shape because you've abstracted your core business functions into reusable, language-neutral Web Services. In fact, the more rewriting of existing code you do in VB.Net -- without abstracting as services -- the worse off your company will be in the future. Another aside: I'll let you in on a little secret. IBM treasures its ~300 MIPS customers -- a brand new z890 starts at 26 MIPS, after all -- but, just as with its ~30,000 MIPS customers, it doesn't work if everything is frozen at circa 1976. It's a mixed workload platform with significant economies of scale, and that means it should run code you wrote 30 years ago alongside code you wrote 5 minutes ago. What IBM is saying is pretty simple, actually: put something "new," anything "new," on your mainframe and you will enjoy the best cost-of-ownership (and qualities of service) any IT money can buy. Making your VB.Net programmers more productive (and more architecturally sensible) could be your "new." Probably no surprise (or secret), actually, come to think of it. But hope it helps someone. What you're probably not going to win is the argument about "primary" development platform. Sounds like it's VB.Net in your shop. A VB.Net developer is going to take a dim view of someone arguing that *their* next line of code ought to be written in COBOL or C on z/OS. It's like asking someone to change their brand of cola. But Web Services -- well, that's a different story. Now you're actually making their job easier and simpler because they don't have to figure out how to write thousands of lines of code to recreate that accounting system you already have (for example). If they could only plagarize that business function from the comfort and convenience of the only development environment they know in the ways they're used to working Oh, one more thing. Ask for help. Go to your friendly IBM rep and say, "Let's find out more about a zIAW." (That stands for zSeries Integration Architecture Workshop, also known as a SOA Workshop.) Your friendly IBM rep will go to w3.ibm.com/search and figure out what you mean, then they'll understand. See if it makes sense to have a workshop at your company. As it happens the workshop doesn't cost anything except a couple days' time. Good luck! (Or is it "Lose a bit"? :-)) - - - - - Timothy F. Sipples Consulting Enterprise Softwa
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
On 28 Nov 2005 08:37:06 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (McKown, John) wrote: >I wish that we were in the position to use some training, but z/OS is >moribund here. Everybody is totally convinced of the following "facts": >(1) z/OS is incapable of running current internet type applications; (2) >z/OS is dying in the marketplace, at least for our size shop (~ 300 >MIPS); (3) z/OS is far too expensive when compared to Windows; (4) z/OS >is more difficult to develop for than Windows; (5) z/OS people are too >rare and expensive; (6) z/OS people are too resistant to change; (7) >z/OS is proprietary, whereas Windows is "open"; (8) z/OS is more >difficult to maintain due to the dependance on OEM software. Windows is >better because MS supplies all the software, so it is better integrated. I don't believe our decision makers are convinced of those "facts". What they are convinced of is that whatever applications they buy next to replace the core of the applications on our mainframe today - will not be Z/OS applications. Applications are what matter. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Mason > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 10:48 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e > > > John, > > 7 and 8 contradict one another do they not? > > Chris Mason So what's your point? Management is not constrainted to be consistant! -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer UICI Insurance Center Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its' content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
John, 7 and 8 contradict one another do they not? Chris Mason - Original Message - From: "McKown, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: Sent: Monday, 28 November, 2005 5:36 PM Subject: Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Comstock > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 8:51 AM > > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e > > > > > > McKown, John wrote: > > [snip] > > > > > > I was thinking of CGIs. I was also thinking of the HTTPD server. We > > > don't have Websphere. Perhaps Websphere has things in it to make > > > developing CGI-like applications in COBOL easier. When we > > tried to do > > > CGI in COBOL a few years ago, it was very difficult due to not being > > > able to use "stdin" and "stdout" directly from COBOL code, > > using COBOL > > > verbs. I haven't looked at this since installing Enterprise > > COBOL, so > > > maybe it is easier now. > > > > > > > Yes, well you can "Accept input_area from keyboard-in" to > > read from stdin (in the special-names paragraph say "sysin > > is keyboar-in.") > > > > And your basic "display" statement sends stuff to stdout. > > Nothing hard in this. > > > > > > We cover working with stdin and stdout from COBOL, Assembler, > > PL/I, and C using native constructs and C functions in our > > 3 day course "Developing Applicaions in z/OS UNIX". We also > > cover accessing MVS files and HFS files from these languages, > > compiling, assembling, binding, and running under the shell, > > using "make", dynamically invoking programs stored with long, > > case-sensitive names stored in the HFS, and more. Details at: > > http://www.trainersfriend.com/UNIX_and_Web_courses/u520descr.htm > > > > Be sure to follow the links to the course objectives and the > > detailed topical outline for more information. > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > -Steve Comstock > > > > Steve, > > Thanks for the update on Enterprise COBOL. > > I wish that we were in the position to use some training, but z/OS is > moribund here. Everybody is totally convinced of the following "facts": > (1) z/OS is incapable of running current internet type applications; (2) > z/OS is dying in the marketplace, at least for our size shop (~ 300 > MIPS); (3) z/OS is far too expensive when compared to Windows; (4) z/OS > is more difficult to develop for than Windows; (5) z/OS people are too > rare and expensive; (6) z/OS people are too resistant to change; (7) > z/OS is proprietary, whereas Windows is "open"; (8) z/OS is more > difficult to maintain due to the dependance on OEM software. Windows is > better because MS supplies all the software, so it is better integrated. > > Note that some of the above have elements of truth. Others are totally > contrary to fact. But "perception IS reality" as we have often been > told. > > -- > John McKown > Senior Systems Programmer > UICI Insurance Center > Information Technology -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Comstock > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 8:51 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e > > > McKown, John wrote: > [snip] > > > > I was thinking of CGIs. I was also thinking of the HTTPD server. We > > don't have Websphere. Perhaps Websphere has things in it to make > > developing CGI-like applications in COBOL easier. When we > tried to do > > CGI in COBOL a few years ago, it was very difficult due to not being > > able to use "stdin" and "stdout" directly from COBOL code, > using COBOL > > verbs. I haven't looked at this since installing Enterprise > COBOL, so > > maybe it is easier now. > > > > Yes, well you can "Accept input_area from keyboard-in" to > read from stdin (in the special-names paragraph say "sysin > is keyboar-in.") > > And your basic "display" statement sends stuff to stdout. > Nothing hard in this. > > > We cover working with stdin and stdout from COBOL, Assembler, > PL/I, and C using native constructs and C functions in our > 3 day course "Developing Applicaions in z/OS UNIX". We also > cover accessing MVS files and HFS files from these languages, > compiling, assembling, binding, and running under the shell, > using "make", dynamically invoking programs stored with long, > case-sensitive names stored in the HFS, and more. Details at: > http://www.trainersfriend.com/UNIX_and_Web_courses/u520descr.htm > > Be sure to follow the links to the course objectives and the > detailed topical outline for more information. > > > Kind regards, > > -Steve Comstock > Steve, Thanks for the update on Enterprise COBOL. I wish that we were in the position to use some training, but z/OS is moribund here. Everybody is totally convinced of the following "facts": (1) z/OS is incapable of running current internet type applications; (2) z/OS is dying in the marketplace, at least for our size shop (~ 300 MIPS); (3) z/OS is far too expensive when compared to Windows; (4) z/OS is more difficult to develop for than Windows; (5) z/OS people are too rare and expensive; (6) z/OS people are too resistant to change; (7) z/OS is proprietary, whereas Windows is "open"; (8) z/OS is more difficult to maintain due to the dependance on OEM software. Windows is better because MS supplies all the software, so it is better integrated. Note that some of the above have elements of truth. Others are totally contrary to fact. But "perception IS reality" as we have often been told. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer UICI Insurance Center Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its' content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
McKown, John wrote: [snip] I was thinking of CGIs. I was also thinking of the HTTPD server. We don't have Websphere. Perhaps Websphere has things in it to make developing CGI-like applications in COBOL easier. When we tried to do CGI in COBOL a few years ago, it was very difficult due to not being able to use "stdin" and "stdout" directly from COBOL code, using COBOL verbs. I haven't looked at this since installing Enterprise COBOL, so maybe it is easier now. Yes, well you can "Accept input_area from keyboard-in" to read from stdin (in the special-names paragraph say "sysin is keyboar-in.") And your basic "display" statement sends stuff to stdout. Nothing hard in this. We cover working with stdin and stdout from COBOL, Assembler, PL/I, and C using native constructs and C functions in our 3 day course "Developing Applicaions in z/OS UNIX". We also cover accessing MVS files and HFS files from these languages, compiling, assembling, binding, and running under the shell, using "make", dynamically invoking programs stored with long, case-sensitive names stored in the HFS, and more. Details at: http://www.trainersfriend.com/UNIX_and_Web_courses/u520descr.htm Be sure to follow the links to the course objectives and the detailed topical outline for more information. Kind regards, -Steve Comstock Plus, I'm trying to get my C compiler back . Not likely as I'm the only C literate person here on the z/OS side. The Windows side might have some C people. Although from what I know of them, they are all VB.Net people now. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Sipples > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 7:32 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e > > > >This makes sense because z/OS.e is for "non traditional" > workloads. The > >way that I read IBM's intent is that z/OS.e is mainly to support a > >Websphere / DB2 environment for "e-business". Websphere > almost demands a > >C compiler for applications. > > I'm confused by that last sentence since it hasn't been my > experience, but > I'm willing to learn. What do you have in mind? > > - - - - - > Timothy F. Sipples I was thinking of CGIs. I was also thinking of the HTTPD server. We don't have Websphere. Perhaps Websphere has things in it to make developing CGI-like applications in COBOL easier. When we tried to do CGI in COBOL a few years ago, it was very difficult due to not being able to use "stdin" and "stdout" directly from COBOL code, using COBOL verbs. I haven't looked at this since installing Enterprise COBOL, so maybe it is easier now. Plus, I'm trying to get my C compiler back . Not likely as I'm the only C literate person here on the z/OS side. The Windows side might have some C people. Although from what I know of them, they are all VB.Net people now. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer UICI Insurance Center Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its' content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
>This makes sense because z/OS.e is for "non traditional" workloads. The >way that I read IBM's intent is that z/OS.e is mainly to support a >Websphere / DB2 environment for "e-business". Websphere almost demands a >C compiler for applications. I'm confused by that last sentence since it hasn't been my experience, but I'm willing to learn. What do you have in mind? - - - - - Timothy F. Sipples Consulting Enterprise Software Architect IBM Americas zSeries/z9 Software Phone: +1 312 529 1612 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
> Obviously you cannot compile the COBOL program on z/OS.e but ... ... but if you are interested in compiling COBOL (and PL/I and FORTRAN) programs from a z/OS.e system (legally - we "virtualize" the compile to a service machine) please check out my client's Web site http://syspointusa.com. (Posted with Darren's permission.) Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Russell Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 9:03 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e >Date:Thu, 24 Nov 2005 01:19:28 -0700 >From:"William M. Klein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Fw: Running COBOL under z/os.e FWIW I have modified the CEEPIPI sample program and tested it on z/OS.e. Obviously you cannot compile the COBOL program on z/OS.e but you can run the program object. The program currently loads a hard coded program name -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
On Nov 25, 2005, at 1:53 AM, R.S. wrote: SNIP-- iously (maybe not for IBM) z/OS.e is very interesting mostly for existing mainframe users, thos fighting for lower TCO. Some of them decide to change the platform (see MMA, or other ideas), or they try to (we call it catch left ear with right hand) "wangle" how to fit in terms and conditions of z/OS.e. I know some customers which dropped CICS giving place for replacement product (there are such). Solution for that situation was mentioned hundred of times: make software fees lower. Mainframe software is too expensive. EOT -- Well it as always depends... If you calculate in the salaries of the OEM CICS programmer types I'll bet that it comes out pretty close to being even (or possibly less). 30 (or so years ago) a company I worked for bought a replacement (called INTERCOM) for one group. WIth the idea that it might replace it for the entire company. The problem was that they couldn't find people that knew INTERCOM and the ones that did wanted big $$$. The people that brought it in ended up leaving the company as they could make lots more money elsewhere. BTW INTERCOM was probably a better product that CICS (then) now, I don't know enough about CICS-TS to say. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
>Date:Thu, 24 Nov 2005 01:19:28 -0700 >From:"William M. Klein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Fw: Running COBOL under z/os.e FWIW I have modified the CEEPIPI sample program and tested it on z/OS.e. Obviously you cannot compile the COBOL program on z/OS.e but you can run the program object. The program currently loads a hard coded program name but could be modified to fetch any program. If anyone would like a copy I will send it along. Tom Russell "Stay calm. Be brave. Wait for the signs." -- Jasper FriendlyBear -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
McKown, John wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M. Ray Mullins Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 10:56 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e H... on 2005.11.23 12:40 McKown, John said the following: Also in: http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/e0z2b161/1. 11 Application programming: z/OS.e does not run the following types of applications: CICS, IMS, COBOL (with an exception), Fortran, and PL/I (with an exception). The COBOL exception is that precompiled COBOL DB2 stored procedures and other precompiled applications that use the Language Environment preinitialization interface (CEEPIPI) are supported. The PL/I exception is that precompiled PL/I applications are supported. These COBOL and PL/I applications could be compiled on a z/OS system, then run on a z/OS.e system. Does this mean that C/C++ compiling and executing - no matter what - is fair game on z/OS.e? To our USA readers - my heartfelt wishes for a wonderful Thanksgiving holiday. Best regards (from the road in Los Angeles), Ray From what I can tell, you may compile and run C/C++ programs on z/OS.e with no restrictions (assuming you have licensed it). I looked in the IFAPRD00 member that came with z/OS 1.6 (which has a z/OS.e section in it). There is an entry for the C/C++ compiler in that section. Therefore, I assume that it is possible to license the C/C++ compiler on z/OS.e This makes sense because z/OS.e is for "non traditional" workloads. The way that I read IBM's intent is that z/OS.e is mainly to support a Websphere / DB2 environment for "e-business". Websphere almost demands a C compiler for applications. IBM's intention is quite obvious here, although not clearly expressed. z/OS.e is to compete with another "e-business" platforms. For customers, which have (yet) choice, what platform should be better in terms of TCO. CICS, IMS, & other "traditional" workload users don't have such choice. They're already in deep s*t, they caught. Obviously (maybe not for IBM) z/OS.e is very interesting mostly for existing mainframe users, thos fighting for lower TCO. Some of them decide to change the platform (see MMA, or other ideas), or they try to (we call it catch left ear with right hand) "wangle" how to fit in terms and conditions of z/OS.e. I know some customers which dropped CICS giving place for replacement product (there are such). Solution for that situation was mentioned hundred of times: make software fees lower. Mainframe software is too expensive. EOT -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M. Ray Mullins > Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 10:56 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e > > > H... > > on 2005.11.23 12:40 McKown, John said the following: > > > > Also in: > > > > > http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/e0z2b161/1. > > 11 > > > > > > Application programming: z/OS.e does not run the following types of > > applications: CICS, IMS, COBOL (with an exception), > Fortran, and PL/I > > (with an exception). The COBOL exception is that > precompiled COBOL DB2 > > stored procedures and other precompiled applications that use the > > Language Environment preinitialization interface (CEEPIPI) are > > supported. The PL/I exception is that precompiled PL/I > applications > > are supported. These COBOL and PL/I applications could be > compiled on > > a z/OS system, then run on a z/OS.e system. > > Does this mean that C/C++ compiling and executing - no matter > what - is > fair game on z/OS.e? > > To our USA readers - my heartfelt wishes for a wonderful Thanksgiving > holiday. > > Best regards (from the road in Los Angeles), > Ray > >From what I can tell, you may compile and run C/C++ programs on z/OS.e with no restrictions (assuming you have licensed it). I looked in the IFAPRD00 member that came with z/OS 1.6 (which has a z/OS.e section in it). There is an entry for the C/C++ compiler in that section. Therefore, I assume that it is possible to license the C/C++ compiler on z/OS.e This makes sense because z/OS.e is for "non traditional" workloads. The way that I read IBM's intent is that z/OS.e is mainly to support a Websphere / DB2 environment for "e-business". Websphere almost demands a C compiler for applications. John McKown Senior Systems Programmer UICI Insurance Center Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
>Isn't that equivelent to stealing? . . No, I would say not, since you were allowed to run COBOL under z/OS.e; you just cannot compile them there. . . . > It looks like someone has finally contributed the interface program >that allows running COBOL programs under z/os.e as file 727 on the CBT. >I have no idea who could have done this (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). -teD Me? A skeptic? I trust you have proof! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
H... on 2005.11.23 12:40 McKown, John said the following: Also in: http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/e0z2b161/1.11 Application programming: z/OS.e does not run the following types of applications: CICS, IMS, COBOL (with an exception), Fortran, and PL/I (with an exception). The COBOL exception is that precompiled COBOL DB2 stored procedures and other precompiled applications that use the Language Environment preinitialization interface (CEEPIPI) are supported. The PL/I exception is that precompiled PL/I applications are supported. These COBOL and PL/I applications could be compiled on a z/OS system, then run on a z/OS.e system. Does this mean that C/C++ compiling and executing - no matter what - is fair game on z/OS.e? To our USA readers - my heartfelt wishes for a wonderful Thanksgiving holiday. Best regards (from the road in Los Angeles), Ray -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
Folks should actually look at the CBT offering (it's in file 730 though, not 727), before jumping to any conclusions. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jousma, David Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 2:17 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e Isn't that equivelent to stealing? Dave Jousma Principal Systems Programmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 616.653.8429 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hal Merritt Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:12 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Running COBOL under z/os.e It looks like someone has finally contributed the interface program that allows running COBOL programs under z/os.e as file 727 on the CBT. I have no idea who could have done this (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
In a message dated 11/23/2005 3:14:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You may not run the compiler under z/os.e. The COBOL program must have been complied using LE runtimes. There is no restriction found as to which compliers may be used. >> Other than the one in the first sentence? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
No. The original, unmodified program CEEPIPI is documented in IBM Language Environment for MVS & VM Programming Guide Document Number SC26-4818-05. The use is explicitly documented as allowed: "* Execution of applications written in the following languages is not functionally supported on z/OS.e: o COBOL (*except* for precompiled COBOL DB2(r) stored procedures and other precompiled COBOL applications using the Language Environment preinitialization interface (CEEPIPI))" You may not run the compiler under z/os.e. The COBOL program must have been complied using LE runtimes. There is no restriction found as to which compliers may be used. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Finnell Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 2:24 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e In a message dated 11/23/2005 2:17:35 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Isn't that equivelent to stealing? >> Or violating the license agreement and voiding the warrantee(s)? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Finnell > Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 2:24 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e > > > > In a message dated 11/23/2005 2:17:35 P.M. Central Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Isn't that equivelent to stealing? > > > > > >> > Or violating the license agreement and voiding the warrantee(s)? > Well, looking at: http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/CEEA8160/PREF ACE Restrictions: The following restrictions apply to z/OS.e(TM): * The following compilers are not licensed for use on z/OS.e: o COBOL o PL/I o FORTRAN * Execution of applications written in the following languages is not functionally supported on z/OS.e: o COBOL (except for precompiled COBOL DB2(r) stored procedures and other precompiled COBOL applications using the Language Environment preinitialization interface (CEEPIPI)) So, I guess it is indeed legit to do this. Now, what COBOL can run under "normal" LE, but not under CEEPIPI? That's the question! Also in: http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/e0z2b161/1.11 Application programming: z/OS.e does not run the following types of applications: CICS, IMS, COBOL (with an exception), Fortran, and PL/I (with an exception). The COBOL exception is that precompiled COBOL DB2 stored procedures and other precompiled applications that use the Language Environment preinitialization interface (CEEPIPI) are supported. The PL/I exception is that precompiled PL/I applications are supported. These COBOL and PL/I applications could be compiled on a z/OS system, then run on a z/OS.e system. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer UICI Insurance Center Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its' content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jousma, David > Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 2:17 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e > > > Isn't that equivelent to stealing? > > > > Dave Jousma > Principal Systems Programmer > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 616.653.8429 That depends entirely on the "Terms and Conditions" in the license. I think that IBM allows COBOL in specific cases, such as DB2 Stored Procedures. I don't know if this is truly stealing or just cheating. In any case, I do think that it is outside the "spirit and intent" as one of my high school teachers always used to say. But "spirit and intent" have little to do with "legal". -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer UICI Insurance Center Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its' content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
I'm actually surprised Sam would get in the middle of that with CBT. Dave Jousma Principal Systems Programmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 616.653.8429 This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
In a message dated 11/23/2005 2:17:35 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Isn't that equivelent to stealing? >> Or violating the license agreement and voiding the warrantee(s)? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running COBOL under z/os.e
Isn't that equivelent to stealing? Dave Jousma Principal Systems Programmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 616.653.8429 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hal Merritt Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:12 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Running COBOL under z/os.e It looks like someone has finally contributed the interface program that allows running COBOL programs under z/os.e as file 727 on the CBT. I have no idea who could have done this (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
