Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-20 Thread Timothy Sipples
Just to expand a little bit on CBU, your CBU agreement generally allows a
finite number of tests within a certain time period.

Also, customers decide whether and when to activate CBU capacity. IBM (and
presumably other vendors -- but I don't speak for any company) reserve the
right to question the CBU activation at a later time for purposes of
license charges, in particular. For example, if you're activating CBU to
meet your normal production batch deadlines, especially after months of
clear capacity trends, I assume IBM would take a dim view of that. An
actual unforeseen/unusual business-critical disruption or an authorized
rehearsal? Not generally a problem.

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples
IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect
Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan / Asia-Pacific
E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com
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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-20 Thread Marian Gasparovic
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Ted MacNEIL  wrote:
> So, for a specific example, will they let you go from a T03 to a Z03, or do 
> you have to also buy an engine and go to a Z04?
>
Ted, on z9 and z10 you can do exactly that, T03->Z03. You can add
engines or increase speed, or combination of both.
All CoD offerings (On/Off CoD, CBU, CPE(z10 only)) support it.

Marian Gasparovic
IBM Slovakia

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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-20 Thread Jim Marshall
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:23:05 +, Ted MacNEIL  
wrote:

>>CBU is for events which are one step below a Declared Disaster but
>has only taken out one of the IBM 2096's.
>
>That's a pretty restrictive definition for CBU.
>It can/has been used for declared disasters, as well.
>That's what we used it for in a two-site GDPS.
>The back-up site had up to 5 additional engines, under CBU, in case of a 
disaster at the second site.
>And, this config was set up on z/900's over 6 years ago.
>-
In my case it is indeed very restrictive and VERY CHEAP. CBU is not used at 
the DR site because at the DR site (3rd party provider), I get an equivalent of 
the MIPS (MSUs) which I am running at my local site.  So indeed I am 
restricted to what is considered a non-DR event at the local site. A DR event 
locally is one where both of the z9BC's or something like all my DASD blowup, 
hey a flood in the basement, etc. In general if one z9BC "smokes bigtime" and 
it can not be replaced within a reasonable amount of time, then I can invoke 
CBU on the other z9BC to bring one from an IBM 2096-O02 to z02 or IBM 2096-
T03 to a z03 and all for less than $6K per year if my memory serves me. 

If one can afford GDPS and your own second site, then am sure one can afford 
to pay a few dollars more to invoke CBU at a DR site. 

jim  

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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-19 Thread Anne & Lynn Wheeler
mw...@ssfcu.org (Ward, Mike S) writes:
> Yes, I understand. If I wanted to change processors I would also go for
> the fastest cycle times. I remember a company that had a 400 mip(single
> engine)  machine which then purchased a 600 mip 3 engine machine (200
> mips per engine). (mips and engines are fictitious to protect the
> innocent :)) They were sadly disappointed because now the machine was
> slower even though they had more mips.

this is been frequent major refrain in the PC industry (almost no
progress in parallelizing technology for the past several decades) as
they hit the Ghz wall and started moving to multiple cores. There have
been comments that nearly all of the embarrasingly parallel applications
had already been done decades ago.

there was big step-forward with the compare&swap instruction. Charlie
had invented it at the science center working on CP67 fine-grain
multiprocessor locking (compare&swap was chosen because CAS is charlie's
initials). misc. past posts mentioning smp &/or compare&swap
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#smp

initial forey into POK to get compare&swap added to 370 architecture was
rebuffed, claiming that the favorite son operating system felt that
nothing more than test&set (from 360 multiprocessing) was
required. challenge given the science center was to come up with a
non-multiprocessor specific use for compare&swap. the result was the
examples of multi-threaded use that still in current principles of
operation ... where the multi-threaded (aka multiprogramming) operation
is independent of whether environment was single processor or
multiprocessor.

starting at least by the early 80s ... compare&swap saw major uptake in
transaction and multithreaded DBMS implementations (with the same or
similar construct showing up on all the major hardware platforms)
... aka example is the original relational/sql implementation ...
misc. past posts mentioning system/r
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#systemr


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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-19 Thread Ward, Mike S
Yes, I understand. If I wanted to change processors I would also go for
the fastest cycle times. I remember a company that had a 400 mip(single
engine)  machine which then purchased a 600 mip 3 engine machine (200
mips per engine). (mips and engines are fictitious to protect the
innocent :)) They were sadly disappointed because now the machine was
slower even though they had more mips.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 8:31 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: cpu upgrade

>Just out of curiosity, how can you increase the speed by adding more
CPU's?

What I meant was, under marketting arrangements (for example on the old
9672's), IBM wouldn't just upgrade the speed; in Canada, you always had
to add an additional engine, as well.

So, for a specific example, will they let you go from a T03 to a Z03, or
do you have to also buy an engine and go to a Z04?

Under any System z, whereever I have worked, we alway bought the fastest
engines, so an upgrade was always more engines.
So, I don't know if the marketting agreement has changed or not, and I
was just asking out of curiosity.
-
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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-19 Thread Ted MacNEIL
>Just out of curiosity, how can you increase the speed by adding more
CPU's?

What I meant was, under marketting arrangements (for example on the old 
9672's), IBM wouldn't just upgrade the speed; in Canada, you always had to add 
an additional engine, as well.

So, for a specific example, will they let you go from a T03 to a Z03, or do you 
have to also buy an engine and go to a Z04?

Under any System z, whereever I have worked, we alway bought the fastest 
engines, so an upgrade was always more engines.
So, I don't know if the marketting agreement has changed or not, and I was just 
asking out of curiosity.
-
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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-19 Thread Ted MacNEIL
>CBU is for events which are one step below a Declared Disaster but 
has only taken out one of the IBM 2096's.

That's a pretty restrictive definition for CBU.
It can/has been used for declared disasters, as well.
That's what we used it for in a two-site GDPS.
The back-up site had up to 5 additional engines, under CBU, in case of a 
disaster at the second site.
And, this config was set up on z/900's over 6 years ago.
-
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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-19 Thread Ward, Mike S
Just out of curiosity, how can you increase the speed by adding more
CPU's?

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:25 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: cpu upgrade

>Any feedback on how ISV products, that have passwords, based on the
cpu, handle the increase?

There are as many schemes as there are vendors.
Some, like SAS, warn you.
Some, like SYNCSORT, give you a 30 day grace period.
Some, like PKWARE, stop you cold.

BTW, since I've never worked in a shop that used the smaller engines,
can you upgrade the speed without adding more CPUs?
If you can, the response above was for adding more.

I assume the ISV's just upgrade their records and their fees.
-
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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-19 Thread Jim Marshall
>Nowadays, if you upgrade the cpu capacity, by having ibm just apply the
>feature code to the box, does this take effect immediately on all the lpars, or
>must each lpar be ipl'd to pick up the new capacity?
>
When I bought a IBM 2096-Q03 (z9BC) my customer changed their mind and 
decided it should be an IBM 2096-T03. So we implemented it with 3 CPs and 
ran as an IBM 2096-Q03 for a few days until the procurement action 
completed for the "T03" upgrade. What arrived was some "secret code" which 
we entered into the processor console and magically it energized itself to an 
IBM 2096-T03. Thus the engine power was divided equally amongst the 3 CPs 
(going from a Q03 to T03). 

Nothing changed as far as the CPU ID, etc. Non of the 3rd party products 
needed to be told because we still had 3 CPs running because the CPUID did 
not change and the number of CPs did not change (for those products which 
are CP number sensitive). Any changes which needed to be accomplished were 
strictly contractual licensing changes to account for more power. Indeed if 
you want to turn the power on by adding an physcial engine to LPAR, then 
some changes would be required to LPARs, etc. 

By simply turning on engine power, it does mean one has to purchase another 
hardware CP to do it (unless I was already sitting at a "Z03" and needed more 
juice).  The increasing in processing power is the same thing which happens 
for Capacity BackUp (CBU) where I can jump the IBM 2096-T03 all the way up 
to an IBM 2096-Z03 for a few weeks in case my other IBM 2096 "smokes and 
burns" and I need to run all the work on one IBM 2096 for some period of time 
while the other one being replaced. Keep in mind CBU is not "Capacity On 
Demand (COD)" and also does not kick in when there are are just maintenance 
outages. CBU is for events which are one step below a Declared Disaster but 
has only taken out one of the IBM 2096's.   Oh yes, also have it so the IBM 
2096-O02 can jump to an IBM 2096-Z02 in the event I have to go the other 
way. As a note, this is a very inexpensive Insurance Policy just in case. 

jim  

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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-17 Thread Ted MacNEIL
>Any feedback on how ISV products, that have passwords, based on the cpu, 
>handle the increase?

There are as many schemes as there are vendors.
Some, like SAS, warn you.
Some, like SYNCSORT, give you a 30 day grace period.
Some, like PKWARE, stop you cold.

BTW, since I've never worked in a shop that used the smaller engines, can you 
upgrade the speed without adding more CPUs?
If you can, the response above was for adding more.

I assume the ISV's just upgrade their records and their fees.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-17 Thread Ed Finnell
 
In a message dated 10/17/2009 10:39:15 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
pwo...@harristeeter.com writes:

Any feedback on how ISV products, that have passwords, based on the  cpu, 
handle the increase?


>>
For the $$$ upgrade they'll send you new  passwords that match the model 
type and the CPUID.





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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-17 Thread Peter Vander Woude
My original question was about upgrading a cpu, by increasing the capacity of 
existing engines.  If I am understanding the posts so far, this additional 
capacity is available immediately, correct?

Any feedback on how ISV products, that have passwords, based on the cpu, 
handle the increase?

Thanks,
Pete

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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-16 Thread Edward Jaffe

Ted MacNEIL wrote:

With z/OS 1.10 and above and z10 hardware, you can dynamically add


LPs to the running OS on the fly without any outage

The capability is older than that!
I did it on much older hardware many aeons ago.
  


No. In the past you would have had to define reserved processors and 
configure them online. Mark is right. I should have mentioned this 
capability requires z10 as well.


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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-16 Thread Ted MacNEIL
>You're confusing the ability to config a reserved offline engine online to the
new functionality.   The new functionality lets you add an engine that the OS 
didn't know existed prior to IPL time.  In other words, it was not
defined as reserved or initial on the HMC.  

Okay!
I stand corrected.
-
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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-16 Thread Mark Zelden
On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:56:19 +, Ted MacNEIL  wrote:

>>With z/OS 1.10 and above and z10 hardware, you can dynamically add
>LPs to the running OS on the fly without any outage
>
>The capability is older than that!
>I did it on much older hardware many aeons ago.
>-

You're confusing the ability to config a reserved offline engine online to the
new functionality.   The new functionality lets you add an engine that
the OS didn't know existed prior to IPL time.  In other words, it was not
defined as reserved or initial on the HMC.  

Mark
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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-16 Thread Mark Zelden
On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:37:14 +, Ted MacNEIL  wrote:

>>z/OS 1.10 supports adding engines dynamically to an LPAR.
>
>So did OS/390 2.7, if not earlier.
>You just have to prepare.
>
>PLUS, the dynamic additon of CPs to an image is a completely different
function from the dynamic addition of CPs to a CEC.
>-

As is CONFIGing on / varying on a reserved engine as opposed to 
dynamically adding an engine that was not known at IPL time.Ed
was referring to the latter (which was not available until z/OS 1.10 as
he wrote).  What he didn't mention was that it also required the 
proper hardware (z10).  

Mark
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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-16 Thread Ted MacNEIL
>With z/OS 1.10 and above and z10 hardware, you can dynamically add
LPs to the running OS on the fly without any outage

The capability is older than that!
I did it on much older hardware many aeons ago.
-
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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-16 Thread Mark Zelden
Even if you have no reserved engines, assuming multiple LPARs sharing
engines, there would be more engines total in the pool for sharing,  which
could provide the needed capacity.  If the number of LPs matched the number
of physical CPs, it wouldn't help.

With z/OS 1.10 and above and z10 hardware, you can dynamically add
LPs to the running OS on the fly without any outage.

Mark
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On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:00:39 -0500, Field, Alan C.
 wrote:

>When they apply the microcode the engine is immediately available.
>
>Providing you have set up the image profiles with reserved CPUs defined
>you can simply CF CPU(nn),ONLINE.
>
>A D M=CPU will show + for online CPUS, - for reserved or offline CPUS.
>
>Alan
>
>-Original Message-
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
>Behalf Of Peter Vander Woude
>Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 15:56
>To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
>Subject: cpu upgrade
>
>Nowadays, if you upgrade the cpu capacity, by having ibm just apply the
>feature code to the box, does this take effect immediately on all the
>lpars, or
>must each lpar be ipl'd to pick up the new capacity?
>
>peter
>
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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-16 Thread Ted MacNEIL
>Or if I miss read you and you are changing say, a model 503 to a 703
the change is immediately recognized with no action by you.

Not quite.

You still have to CONFIG them on.
They don't come online automatically.
And, there is preparation required in the LPAR profiles.
-
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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-16 Thread Ted MacNEIL
>z/OS 1.10 supports adding engines dynamically to an LPAR.

So did OS/390 2.7, if not earlier.
You just have to prepare.

PLUS, the dynamic additon of CPs to an image is a completely different function 
from the dynamic addition of CPs to a CEC.
-
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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-16 Thread Field, Alan C.
Or if I miss read you and you are changing say, a model 503 to a 703
the change is immediately recognized with no action by you.

A D M=CPU will show the new model e.g. CPC SI =
2094.703.IBM.02.000x

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Peter Vander Woude
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 15:56 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: cpu upgrade

Nowadays, if you upgrade the cpu capacity, by having ibm just apply the 
feature code to the box, does this take effect immediately on all the
lpars, or 
must each lpar be ipl'd to pick up the new capacity?

peter

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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-16 Thread Edward Jaffe

McKown, John wrote:

I think that the CPUs automatically start to run faster. Like pushing in the 
gas pedal on a car.


Yup.


... If you add a new CPU or speciality engine, then you must change the LPAR 
defination on the HMC. This would require a shutdown of the OS, deactivate then 
activate the LPAR, then a reIPL.
  


z/OS 1.10 supports adding engines dynamically to an LPAR.

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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-16 Thread Ted MacNEIL
>If you add a new CPU or speciality engine, then you must change the LPAR 
>defination on the HMC. This would require a shutdown of the OS, deactivate 
>then activate the LPAR, then a reIPL.

Not if you have RSVD filled in.
Then its just an add and a CONFIG (operator) command.

See the PRSM planning manual (exact name and library code number escape me).

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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-16 Thread Ted MacNEIL
>When they apply the microcode the engine is immediately available. 

>Providing you have set up the image profiles with reserved CPUs defined
you can simply CF CPU(nn),ONLINE.

>A D M=CPU will show + for online CPUS, - for reserved or offline CPUS. 

Ever since the feature became available, IBM has recommended that you define 
all LPARs with n usable CPs (could be less than installed), with m in reserve 
(m being the total possible less n).
This way, you can add them dynamically when needed/available.
Eventually, you will have to change the activation profile because they revert 
at re-ipl or POR.
-
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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-16 Thread McKown, John
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Peter Vander Woude
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 3:56 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: cpu upgrade
> 
> Nowadays, if you upgrade the cpu capacity, by having ibm just 
> apply the 
> feature code to the box, does this take effect immediately on 
> all the lpars, or 
> must each lpar be ipl'd to pick up the new capacity?
> 
> peter

I think that the CPUs automatically start to run faster. Like pushing in the 
gas pedal on a car. If you add a new CPU or speciality engine, then you must 
change the LPAR defination on the HMC. This would require a shutdown of the OS, 
deactivate then activate the LPAR, then a reIPL.

--
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Re: cpu upgrade

2009-10-16 Thread Field, Alan C.
When they apply the microcode the engine is immediately available. 

Providing you have set up the image profiles with reserved CPUs defined
you can simply CF CPU(nn),ONLINE.

A D M=CPU will show + for online CPUS, - for reserved or offline CPUS. 

Alan

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Peter Vander Woude
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 15:56 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: cpu upgrade

Nowadays, if you upgrade the cpu capacity, by having ibm just apply the 
feature code to the box, does this take effect immediately on all the
lpars, or 
must each lpar be ipl'd to pick up the new capacity?

peter

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