Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
They're not. The latest matrix price I saw for this position was $50. Ennh, thank you for playing. The $50 goes to the pimp, who turns around and maybe coughs up $35 to a W-2 who's paying for his own health care, etc. I guess I interpreted matrix price differently. Obviously $50/hour full time direct employee (with benefits) is substantially different than $50/hour paid to a middleman firm. I assumed the former from the original poster. Perhaps a bad assumption. But I made the assumption because $50/hour paid to a contract firm wouldn't seem to be sufficient to obtain qualified U.S. local programming talent. My wild guess is that the position did not get filled at $35/hour sans benefits. In other countries would $35/hour be sufficient to recruit programming talent? Maybe, but that's only the numerator. You then have to adjust for productivity and quality, and those aspects could vary dramatically depending on the country. I happen to believe that quality programmers are true professionals, and professionals are not easily swappable. I think the better development managers agree with me. - - - - - Timothy F. Sipples Consulting Enterprise Software Architect, z9/zSeries IBM Japan, Ltd. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
Also not fair to totally point the finger at IBM who are probably paying, AT LEAST, double the money being quoted. They're not. The latest matrix price I saw for this position was $50. That's full time though, right? If you round to 2,000 hours annually that's U.S. $100,000 plus benefits plus bonuses with a Poughkeepsie cost of living, and that's not bad. I think that's a bit higher than for other programming languages (e.g. BASIC), if the compensation surveys I've seen are accurate. - - - - - Timothy F. Sipples Consulting Enterprise Software Architect, z9/zSeries IBM Japan, Ltd. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 03/26/2006 at 07:33 PM, Richard Tsujimoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Jeez, (IIRC) I still remember it being PL/C. BSL, PL/S, PL/X and a few others, but not PL/C. PL/C was a Cornell student compiler. It was fast, but I had students who resorted to the optimizing compiler to find errors that they couldn't with PL/C. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
- Original Message - From: Timothy Sipples [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 3:17 AM Subject: Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering? Also not fair to totally point the finger at IBM who are probably paying, AT LEAST, double the money being quoted. They're not. The latest matrix price I saw for this position was $50. That's full time though, right? If you round to 2,000 hours annually that's U.S. $100,000 plus benefits plus bonuses with a Poughkeepsie cost of living, and that's not bad. I think that's a bit higher than for other programming languages (e.g. BASIC), if the compensation surveys I've seen are accurate. - - - - - Ennh, thank you for playing. The $50 goes to the pimp, who turns around and maybe coughs up $35 to a W-2 who's paying for his own health care, etc. Benefits? Bonuses? Maybe if you're an IBM employee, but not a consultant. That's what I love about most full-timers. They look at the bill rate, multiply by 2000 hours and think that's all there is. Never mind the health care, the 15% Medicare and Social Security, disability insurance, unemployment insurance, etc. Regards, Tom Conley -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
It wouldn't surprise me if they're doing 1099 instead of W-2, which means you're liable for your own benefits and taxes, which means that in reality you're looking at about $55/60K take-home. A ROT I remember from a while ago, and that was before medical insurance went through the roof (interesting how the promise of HMOs to reduce health care expenses never came true g): take your quoted salary and add 33% to get what you really cost to a company. Later, Ray -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Sipples Sent: Tuesday March 28 2006 00:22 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering? Also not fair to totally point the finger at IBM who are probably paying, AT LEAST, double the money being quoted. They're not. The latest matrix price I saw for this position was $50. That's full time though, right? If you round to 2,000 hours annually that's U.S. $100,000 plus benefits plus bonuses with a Poughkeepsie cost of living, and that's not bad. I think that's a bit higher than for other programming languages (e.g. BASIC), if the compensation surveys I've seen are accurate. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
take your quoted salary and add 33% to get what you really cost to a company. It's actually just over 40% in Ontario. And, that's with me paying Ontario Health Premiums, which used to be covered by my employer. - -teD I’m an enthusiastic proselytiser of the universal panacea I believe in! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
Based on the recent cost-saving activities at GM, it was revealed that for a worker making $30/hr, the actual cost to the company (which includes pensions) is $60/hr. Ted MacNEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU 03/27/2006 07:00 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU To IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU cc Subject Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering? take your quoted salary and add 33% to get what you really cost to a company. It's actually just over 40% in Ontario. And, that's with me paying Ontario Health Premiums, which used to be covered by my employer. - -teD I?m an enthusiastic proselytiser of the universal panacea I believe in! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
It seems I have seen that somewhere as a ROT. That is, the TCO of an employee is 2x gross pay. ROT - Rule of thumb TCO - Total cost of ownership (pun intended). See also Wage Slave ;-) Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Tsujimoto Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 2:08 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering? Based on the recent cost-saving activities at GM, it was revealed that for a worker making $30/hr, the actual cost to the company (which includes pensions) is $60/hr. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
With respect to the conclusions one could draw, here they are: 1. Somebody is (was?) looking for a PLX programmer. 2. Somebody would have made a nice profit at that asking price. With respect to the educated guesses beyond that, here they are: 3. At that asking price, somebody probably didn't find a PLX programmer. 4. Kite-flying exercise successfully concluded, local Congressman gets petitioned that no Americans have the necessary skill-set, and so cheap resources should be allowed to be imported. Cynic ??? - who, where ... Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
Also not fair to totally point the finger at IBM who are probably paying, AT LEAST, double the money being quoted. I believe head-hunters, or at least the ones I have spoken with, in North America have as much integrity of your average lawyer. Jim S -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shane Sent: 27 March 2006 19:06 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering? With respect to the conclusions one could draw, here they are: 1. Somebody is (was?) looking for a PLX programmer. 2. Somebody would have made a nice profit at that asking price. With respect to the educated guesses beyond that, here they are: 3. At that asking price, somebody probably didn't find a PLX programmer. 4. Kite-flying exercise successfully concluded, local Congressman gets petitioned that no Americans have the necessary skill-set, and so cheap resources should be allowed to be imported. Cynic ??? - who, where ... Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
Shane wrote: With respect to the conclusions one could draw, here they are: 1. Somebody is (was?) looking for a PLX programmer. 2. Somebody would have made a nice profit at that asking price. With respect to the educated guesses beyond that, here they are: 3. At that asking price, somebody probably didn't find a PLX programmer. 4. Kite-flying exercise successfully concluded, local Congressman gets petitioned that no Americans have the necessary skill-set, and so cheap resources should be allowed to be imported. Cynic ??? - who, where ... Not at all. Very perceptive. Shane ... And from an Aussie, too! Way to go! I am not as knowledgable about politics in Oz as you are about politics here. Kind regards, -Steve Comstock -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Steve Comstock Shane wrote: With respect to the conclusions one could draw, here they are: 1. Somebody is (was?) looking for a PLX programmer. 2. Somebody would have made a nice profit at that asking price. With respect to the educated guesses beyond that, here they are: 3. At that asking price, somebody probably didn't find a PLX programmer. 4. Kite-flying exercise successfully concluded, local Congressman gets petitioned that no Americans have the necessary skill-set, and so cheap resources should be allowed to be imported. Cynic ??? - who, where ... Not at all. Very perceptive. And from an Aussie, too! Way to go! I am not as knowledgable about politics in Oz as you are about politics here. When was the last time you heard an Aussie politician running around the world, pounding his chest and hollering, We are the 5,000-ton gorilla!? -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
Right. Right. It was PL/S. Tom Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU 03/26/2006 11:12 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU To IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU cc Subject Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering? On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:33:18 -0500, Richard Tsujimoto wrote: Jeez, (IIRC) I still remember it being PL/C. No, PL/C was Cornell University's student PL/1 compiler. (I remember it, too; Waterloo had it as one of their batch compilers, as did ISU and many other colleges and universities around the world.) The PL/X genealogy included PL/S and PL/AS, but not PL/C. -- Tom Schmidt Madison, WI -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
- Original Message - From: James Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 6:50 AM Subject: RE: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering? Also not fair to totally point the finger at IBM who are probably paying, AT LEAST, double the money being quoted. I believe head-hunters, or at least the ones I have spoken with, in North America have as much integrity of your average lawyer. Jim S Jim, They're not. The latest matrix price I saw for this position was $50. Regards, Tom Conley -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, PL/C was Cornell University's student PL/1 compiler. (I remember it, too; Waterloo had it as one of their batch compilers, as did ISU and many other colleges and universities around the world.) The PL/X genealogy included PL/S and PL/AS, but not PL/C. posting in pl/s, et al thread in this n.g. from a couple years ago http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#46 PL/? History wikipedia entry for pl/c http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PL/C another pl/i subset was pl.8 developed as part of 801/risc project. cp.r was written in pl.8. misc. posts mentioning 801, pl.8, cp.r, romp, rios, power, power/pc, etc http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801 and for some drift, a recent post mentioning wikipedia and power/pc http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#6 64-bit architectures 32-bit instructions -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
Sorry, that wasn't me who said it was a PL/1 compiler. Anne Lynn Wheeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU 03/27/2006 10:29 AM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU To IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU cc Subject Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, PL/C was Cornell University's student PL/1 compiler. (I remember it, too; Waterloo had it as one of their batch compilers, as did ISU and many other colleges and universities around the world.) The PL/X genealogy included PL/S and PL/AS, but not PL/C. posting in pl/s, et al thread in this n.g. from a couple years ago http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#46 PL/? History wikipedia entry for pl/c http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PL/C another pl/i subset was pl.8 developed as part of 801/risc project. cp.r was written in pl.8. misc. posts mentioning 801, pl.8, cp.r, romp, rios, power, power/pc, etc http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801 and for some drift, a recent post mentioning wikipedia and power/pc http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#6 64-bit architectures 32-bit instructions -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
I saw the original posting on the official IBM jobs web site a while ago. IIRC, there was no mention of salary or band. Personally, having read enough listings and z/VSE Optional source over the years, along with some experience with PL/I, I think I'd come up to speed pretty quickly with PL/X. But I'm not moving to Pok any time soon. :-) Later, Ray -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Sipples Sent: Sunday March 26 2006 22:20 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering? I didn't see the original Web address for this PLX job posting. Here's one instance: http://www.net-temps.com/job/2ow6/PLX-POK/plx_programmer_ex_ib mers.html With respect to the conclusions one could draw, here they are: 1. Somebody is (was?) looking for a PLX programmer. 2. Somebody would have made a nice profit at that asking price. With respect to the educated guesses beyond that, here they are: 3. At that asking price, somebody probably didn't find a PLX programmer. :-) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4850652.stm US President George W Bush has used a naturalisation ceremony in Washington to boost his calls for a guest-worker programme. Mr Bush swore in new US citizens at the event, amid growing protests over plans to criminalise undocumented workers. He wants to allow foreigners to stay for a set time in specific jobs, but his Republican Party is divided. -- Phil Payne http://www.isham-research.co.uk +44 7833 654 800 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
Take a look at this job posting. $35/hr for PLX programmers (for the I/O subsystem, no less!). You gotta be kidding me. XXX is in need of a PLX Programmer for one of our top clients in Poughkeepsie, NY. Skills required: PLX Programming skills (Very important as that is what the code is written in) OS/390 skills (MVS) Experience (Equally important as this is the operating system that the code will run under). S390 eServer hardware and millicode knowledge (Important as this is what the code is manipulating). Architecture Verification skills- Must be able to read and interpret architecture documents, technical specs so to speak, and be able to write code (in PLX) to stress and test that architecture Working knowledge or experience with S/390 eServer Channel I/O architecture and I/O devices (All of this work deals with I/O not CPU) Duration: Until 12/31/05 w/ possibility of extension Location: Poughkeepsie, NY Shift: 1st shift, Monday-Friday Compensation: $35/hr or $61,000 depending on benefits needed) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
At 09:51 AM 03/26/2006, you wrote: Take a look at this job posting. $35/hr for PLX programmers (for the I/O subsystem, no less!). You gotta be kidding me. Based on the description, this sounds like requiring a brain surgeon and paying them LPN wages! Anyway, what is PLX? Never heard of it. XXX is in need of a PLX Programmer for one of our top clients in Poughkeepsie, NY. Skills required: PLX Programming skills (Very important as that is what the code is written in) OS/390 skills (MVS) Experience (Equally important as this is the operating system that the code will run under). S390 eServer hardware and millicode knowledge (Important as this is what the code is manipulating). Architecture Verification skills- Must be able to read and interpret architecture documents, technical specs so to speak, and be able to write code (in PLX) to stress and test that architecture Working knowledge or experience with S/390 eServer Channel I/O architecture and I/O devices (All of this work deals with I/O not CPU) Duration: Until 12/31/05 w/ possibility of extension Location: Poughkeepsie, NY Shift: 1st shift, Monday-Friday Compensation: $35/hr or $61,000 depending on benefits needed) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Steve Wiegand -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
PL/X is a vaguely PL/I-like (I'm SURE someone will have to correct me on this) language that is used internally by IBM. Much of z/OS is written in PL/X. PL/X has systems programming features such as being able to drop into assembler. IBM has never released PL/X as a customer product but they have shipped the compiler at various times under limited circumstances - it was available to 3rd party developers for a while. To see some PL/X, take a look at almost any of the OS macros. Roughly half the code is familiar assembly/macro language - the other half, the code that looks unfamiliar and PL/I-like, is PL/X. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen M. Wiegand Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:48 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering? At 09:51 AM 03/26/2006, you wrote: Take a look at this job posting. $35/hr for PLX programmers (for the I/O subsystem, no less!). You gotta be kidding me. Based on the description, this sounds like requiring a brain surgeon and paying them LPN wages! Anyway, what is PLX? Never heard of it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
In a message dated 3/26/2006 10:33:39 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: To see some PL/X, take a look at almost any of the OS macros. Roughly half the code is familiar assembly/macro language - the other half, the code that looks unfamiliar and PL/I-like, is PL/X. There was big stinko at one of the SHAREs mid eighties. Chevron had written PL/S and was willing to part with it to 'broaden the base'. Think it was RAND decided this was definite mainframe fertilizer and were willing to act as distributer(GMC 626 manure spreader comes to mind). Anyway they were passing out mini-reels and giving sessions left and right on Monday and Tuesday and about Wednesday became deathly quiet. Turns out couldn't give out any manuals to go with it 'cause they were all copyrighted. Even our backwoods state legislature divies up the number of scholarships based on projected needs. Whether it's doctors, lawyers, scientists, nurses or teachers. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
On Mar 26, 2006, at 12:25 PM, Ed Finnell wrote: -- SNIP- There was big stinko at one of the SHAREs mid eighties. Chevron had written PL/S and was willing to part with it to 'broaden the base'. Think it was RAND decided this was definite mainframe fertilizer and were willing to act as distributer(GMC 626 manure spreader comes to mind). Anyway they were passing out mini- reels and giving sessions left and right on Monday and Tuesday and about Wednesday became deathly quiet. Turns out couldn't give out any manuals to go with it 'cause they were all copyrighted. --SNIP-- At GUIDE it was offered on a 2400' reel I didn't have one handy (like who carries a reel of tape around with them when they travel?) I got the business card from the guy at Rand and promptly sent off a full tape the week following GUIDE. I do remember there was a fuss about IBM and the manual, but I thought the manual was on the tape, no? I never heard back (I forgot about it). The next mini GUIDE(IIRC) is when we heard about the hitting the fan. I am pretty sure this was an Anahiem. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
In a message dated 3/26/2006 2:30:46 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: full tape the week following GUIDE. I do remember there was a fuss about IBM and the manual, but I thought the manual was on the tape, no? I never got my hands on one. I was doing ISPF something or other and by the time I got wind of it the sails were all furled... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
Jeez, (IIRC) I still remember it being PL/C. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
Originally BSL (Basic Systems Language) which morphed into PL/S (Programming Language/Systems) and finally PL/X (... /X(cross) platform?). The inline assembler (GENERATE) capability was prone to abuse in the early days, for quite a while we saw PL/S programs that consisted of 10,000 lines of assembler wrapped in GENERATE / ENDGEN. :-) At one time ISTR that Fujitsu(?) were distributing a PL/S. PWD members were at one time able to get PL/S (or PL/X?) on an asis basis w/out support for I think USD500 onetime. google: [ IBM PL/S generate assembler endgen ] threw up a hit titled: http://www.mainframeforum.com/showthread.php?s=d6262087ecc7af587452db75b9e2e12egoto=lastpostforumid=927Mainframeforum - PL/X Anyone ..but you'll have to use Google's cached copy as the original is gone. Take care all, Graeme. At 10:33 AM 27/03/2006, you wrote: Jeez, (IIRC) I still remember it being PL/C. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:33:18 -0500, Richard Tsujimoto wrote: Jeez, (IIRC) I still remember it being PL/C. No, PL/C was Cornell University's student PL/1 compiler. (I remember it, too; Waterloo had it as one of their batch compilers, as did ISU and many other colleges and universities around the world.) The PL/X genealogy included PL/S and PL/AS, but not PL/C. -- Tom Schmidt Madison, WI -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
PL/C (was: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?)
PL/C was an interesting compiler. It provided the capability to correct many common coding errors. Unfortunately, there was no guarantee that it would correct the coding error in the way you might expect. You could actually give PL/C no input. I would then detect the lack of a MAIN procedure and would then build a dummy MAIN procedure. John P Baker Software Engineer -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Schmidt Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 23:12 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering? On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:33:18 -0500, Richard Tsujimoto wrote: Jeez, (IIRC) I still remember it being PL/C. No, PL/C was Cornell University's student PL/1 compiler. (I remember it, too; Waterloo had it as one of their batch compilers, as did ISU and many other colleges and universities around the world.) The PL/X genealogy included PL/S and PL/AS, but not PL/C. -- Tom Schmidt Madison, WI -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Wonder why IBM code quality is suffering?
I didn't see the original Web address for this PLX job posting. Here's one instance: http://www.net-temps.com/job/2ow6/PLX-POK/plx_programmer_ex_ibmers.html With respect to the conclusions one could draw, here they are: 1. Somebody is (was?) looking for a PLX programmer. 2. Somebody would have made a nice profit at that asking price. With respect to the educated guesses beyond that, here they are: 3. At that asking price, somebody probably didn't find a PLX programmer. :-) - - - - - Timothy F. Sipples Consulting Enterprise Software Architect, z9/zSeries IBM Japan, Ltd. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
