mainframe software

[Arun shan]

Hai Friends..

Is any Software Available to learn JCL and CICS  like NET EXPRESS..?

plz Send me the Web Address

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Re: mainframe software

[Timothy Sipples]

A little more information would be helpful. Are you interested in learning
how to write JCL, or something else? For CICS, are you interested in
installation? Operations? Programming? In what language(s)? (CICS
Transaction Server supports C, C++, COBOL, PL/I, Java, EGL, etc.)

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples
IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect
Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan / Asia-Pacific
E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com
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Re: mainframe software

[Lizette Koehler]

I am not sure if there is CBTs that can teach JCL or CICS.  However,
universities like Marist College do provide some web based education in
these areas.

What specifically are your requirements?  Application programming?  System
Programming?  Student taking classes?  Are you trying to get certified in a
specific area?

Lizette


> 
> Hai Friends..
> 
> Is any Software Available to learn JCL and CICS  like NET EXPRESS..?
> 
> plz Send me the Web Address
> 

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Re: mainframe software

[Timothy Sipples]

And yet another question to the original poster: what part of the world are
you in? As Lizette alludes to, there could be in-person training options
available in your part of the world, so perhaps that would be a good option
for you.

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples
IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect
Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan / Asia-Pacific
E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com

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Re: mainframe software

[Steve Comstock]

Timothy Sipples wrote:

And yet another question to the original poster: what part of the world are
you in? As Lizette alludes to, there could be in-person training options
available in your part of the world, so perhaps that would be a good option
for you.

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples


We offer a mentored self-study option we call Remote Contact
Training (RCT). In this approach, a student gets a copy of
the standard handout and we arrange to set up the lab files
on the student's organization's z/OS system.

Then the student goes through the course at their own pace,
running the labs as they come up. When they need more
explanation, hints for solving a lab, or someone to look
at their code / solutions, the mentor is available by email
to help. The mentor is usually the course author.

In these days of reduced training, when companies have only
one or two students who need any particular class, this has
turned out to be very cost effective. Right now I'm mentoring
three students, two in the US and one in Russia.

Check out

  http://www.trainersfriend.com/Policies/RCT_OverView.htm



Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

  z/OS Application development made easier
* Our classes include
   + How things work
   + Programming examples with realistic applications
   + Starter / skeleton code
   + Complete working programs
   + Useful utilities and subroutines
   + Tips and techniques

==> Check out the Trainer's Friend Store to purchase z/OS  <==
==> application developer toolkits. Sample code in four<==
==> programming languages, JCL to Assemble or compile, <==
==> bind and test. <==
==>   http://www.trainersfriend.com/TTFStore/index.html<==

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Re: mainframe software

[Yogeetha balasubramanian]

Is there anything similar for MQ training ?




On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Steve Comstock wrote:

> Timothy Sipples wrote:
>
>> And yet another question to the original poster: what part of the world
>> are
>> you in? As Lizette alludes to, there could be in-person training options
>> available in your part of the world, so perhaps that would be a good
>> option
>> for you.
>>
>> - - - - -
>> Timothy Sipples
>>
>
> We offer a mentored self-study option we call Remote Contact
> Training (RCT). In this approach, a student gets a copy of
> the standard handout and we arrange to set up the lab files
> on the student's organization's z/OS system.
>
> Then the student goes through the course at their own pace,
> running the labs as they come up. When they need more
> explanation, hints for solving a lab, or someone to look
> at their code / solutions, the mentor is available by email
> to help. The mentor is usually the course author.
>
> In these days of reduced training, when companies have only
> one or two students who need any particular class, this has
> turned out to be very cost effective. Right now I'm mentoring
> three students, two in the US and one in Russia.
>
> Check out
>
>  http://www.trainersfriend.com/Policies/RCT_OverView.htm
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> -Steve Comstock
> The Trainer's Friend, Inc.
>
> 303-393-8716
> http://www.trainersfriend.com
>
>  z/OS Application development made easier
>* Our classes include
>   + How things work
>   + Programming examples with realistic applications
>   + Starter / skeleton code
>   + Complete working programs
>   + Useful utilities and subroutines
>   + Tips and techniques
>
> ==> Check out the Trainer's Friend Store to purchase z/OS  <==
> ==> application developer toolkits. Sample code in four<==
> ==> programming languages, JCL to Assemble or compile, <==
> ==> bind and test. <==
> ==>   http://www.trainersfriend.com/TTFStore/index.html<==
>
>
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> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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>

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Re: mainframe software

[Steve Comstock]

Yogeetha balasubramanian wrote:

Is there anything similar for MQ training ?


You know, we don't have any MQ training.

(Are there any MQ training developers out there interested
in working with us?)







On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Steve Comstock wrote:


Timothy Sipples wrote:


And yet another question to the original poster: what part of the world
are
you in? As Lizette alludes to, there could be in-person training options
available in your part of the world, so perhaps that would be a good
option
for you.

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples


We offer a mentored self-study option we call Remote Contact
Training (RCT). In this approach, a student gets a copy of
the standard handout and we arrange to set up the lab files
on the student's organization's z/OS system.

Then the student goes through the course at their own pace,
running the labs as they come up. When they need more
explanation, hints for solving a lab, or someone to look
at their code / solutions, the mentor is available by email
to help. The mentor is usually the course author.

In these days of reduced training, when companies have only
one or two students who need any particular class, this has
turned out to be very cost effective. Right now I'm mentoring
three students, two in the US and one in Russia.

Check out

 http://www.trainersfriend.com/Policies/RCT_OverView.htm


Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

  z/OS Application development made easier
* Our classes include
   + How things work
   + Programming examples with realistic applications
   + Starter / skeleton code
   + Complete working programs
   + Useful utilities and subroutines
   + Tips and techniques

==> Check out the Trainer's Friend Store to purchase z/OS  <==
==> application developer toolkits. Sample code in four<==
==> programming languages, JCL to Assemble or compile, <==
==> bind and test. <==
==>   http://www.trainersfriend.com/TTFStore/index.html<==

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Utilization of Mainframe Software Licenses

[Jacky Bright]

Can anyone help me in understanding the rerm Utilization of Mainframe
Software Licensing ? Does it mean taking care of licensing cost as per the
MIPS / MSU or it involves something more than that...?


JAcky

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Re: Utilization of Mainframe Software Licenses

[Schwarz, Barry A]

Give some context please.

-Original Message-
From: Jacky Bright [mailto:snip] 
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 7:23 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Utilization of Mainframe Software Licenses

Can anyone help me in understanding the rerm Utilization of Mainframe
Software Licensing ? Does it mean taking care of licensing cost as per
the MIPS / MSU or it involves something more than that...?

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Re: Utilization of Mainframe Software Licenses

[Jacky Bright]

My CEO is asking me to generate report on software licensing usage ... Even
I am not aware what this jargon is ?

On 6/27/08, Schwarz, Barry A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Give some context please.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jacky Bright [mailto:snip]
> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 7:23 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Utilization of Mainframe Software Licenses
>
> Can anyone help me in understanding the rerm Utilization of Mainframe
> Software Licensing ? Does it mean taking care of licensing cost as per
> the MIPS / MSU or it involves something more than that...?
>
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>
>

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Re: Utilization of Mainframe Software Licenses

[Lizette Koehler]

Perhaps your CEO read this article by Gartner?  

OVERCOMING THE SOFTWARE LICENSING COMPLEXITY CRISIS
The Case for a Universal Licensing Platform


http://www.softsummit.com/library/white_papers/gartner_overcomingcomplexity.pdf

Lizette



>My CEO is asking me to generate report on software licensing usage ... Even
>I am not aware what this jargon is ?
>
>On 6/27/08, Schwarz, Barry A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Give some context please.
>>

>>
>> Can anyone help me in understanding the rerm Utilization of Mainframe
>> Software Licensing ? Does it mean taking care of licensing cost as per
>> the MIPS / MSU or it involves something more than that...?
>>

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Re: Utilization of Mainframe Software Licenses

[Rick Fochtman]

---

Perhaps your CEO read this article by Gartner?  


OVERCOMING THE SOFTWARE LICENSING COMPLEXITY CRISIS
The Case for a Universal Licensing Platform

http://www.softsummit.com/library/white_papers/gartner_overcomingcomplexity.pdf
 



Here we go again: "Management by Airline Magazine". While I agree that 
some of the material submitted by Gartner Group is valid and makes good 
sense, they also produce a great deal of trash. YMMV.


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Re: Utilization of Mainframe Software Licenses

[Tom Moulder]

The first thing that came to my mind was the term "Shelfware".  A valid
question to ask is whether software that you are paying license fees to use
is actually being used -- perhaps a rather unique view of utilization.
Further, you might ask how large the user community is compared to the cost
of the license.

Tom Moulder

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Jacky Bright
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 9:23 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Utilization of Mainframe Software Licenses

Can anyone help me in understanding the rerm Utilization of Mainframe
Software Licensing ? Does it mean taking care of licensing cost as per the
MIPS / MSU or it involves something more than that...?


JAcky

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Re: Utilization of Mainframe Software Licenses

[Rick Fochtman]

---
The first thing that came to my mind was the term "Shelfware". A valid 
question to ask is whether software that you are paying license fees to 
use is actually being used -- perhaps a rather unique view of 
utilization. Further, you might ask how large the user community is 
compared to the cost of the license.


You might also ask the users if they're willing to shoulder part of the 
cost. I'll bet that will get nothing but a Bronx cheer; and very little 
objection when the product is dropped.


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Re: Utilization of Mainframe Software Licenses

[Ted MacNEIL]

>The first thing that came to my mind was the term "Shelfware".

When Parallel SYSPLEX first came out, you got a discount on IBM software, if 
you bought at least one coupling facility and one timer. This happened even if 
you didn't hook them up.
Then, a couple of years later, you had to hook them up.
Then, later, you had to use them.
This was the ultimate in 'shelfware'.
If your shop was large enough the cost of the hardware was less than the 
discount in software.

-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: Utilization of Mainframe Software Licenses

[Tom Moulder]

Discounts have been an issue for years now.  It invariably leads to hard
feelings on both sides of the negotiating table.  Software companies feel
they have given up too much -- I've personally seen 90% discounts on MF
software license fees -- and customers feel like they are not getting as
good a deal as the other company down the street.  It is a lose/lose
situation.

Tom Moulder


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 4:26 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Utilization of Mainframe Software Licenses

>The first thing that came to my mind was the term "Shelfware".

When Parallel SYSPLEX first came out, you got a discount on IBM software, if
you bought at least one coupling facility and one timer. This happened even
if you didn't hook them up.
Then, a couple of years later, you had to hook them up.
Then, later, you had to use them.
This was the ultimate in 'shelfware'.
If your shop was large enough the cost of the hardware was less than the
discount in software.

-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: Utilization of Mainframe Software Licenses

[Timothy Sipples]

Ted MacNeil writes:
>When Parallel SYSPLEX first came out, you got a discount on
>IBM software, if you bought at least one coupling facility
>and one timer.

The 9037 Sysplex Timer was never a requirement for Sysplex IBM software
pricing aggregation, to the best of my recollection. It still isn't, nor is
STP. The Coupling Facility and appropriate, physically connected cabling
are among the requirements.

>This happened even if you didn't hook them up.

No, that wasn't IBM's view nor what the contracts said. That was what some
customers (and the odd IBM rep) thought, so IBM took the unusual step of
issuing a formal restatement, reminding customers of the rules. There's
also an excellent redpiece on this topic ("z/OS Systems Programmers Guide
to Sysplex Aggregation," REDP-3967).

But back to the original poster's issue What do you think the CEO means
by "utilization"? If he means a report of binary values -- whether each
software product is actually used -- then one would hope you've already got
that answer somewhere within your organization. If not, the CEO has already
made his/her point I suspect. If he/she means "how much" each product is
used, and by whom, that's a bigger question. Probably he'll/she'll want
that information in some sort of business-relevant format, such as number
of employees, number of customers, and/or revenue or profit impact per
product. (That last one is particularly tough to calculate.)

And hopefully the CEO is asking across all platforms.

Doesn't somebody have that (relatively simple) list of software products
and whether each product is actually used? That's just basic asset
management, right? If you don't, myriad vendors are eager to sell services
and/or tools to manage software inventories and other IT assets.

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples
IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect
Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z
Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Utilization of Mainframe Software Licenses

[Timothy Sipples]

Ted MacNeil writes:
>>When Parallel SYSPLEX first came out, you got a discount on
>>IBM software, if you bought at least one coupling facility
>>and one timer.
I replied:
>The 9037 Sysplex Timer was never a requirement for Sysplex IBM
>software pricing aggregation, to the best of my recollection.
>It still isn't, nor is STP. The Coupling Facility and appropriate,
>physically connected cabling are among the requirements.

Sorry folks, I suffered a brain lock on that reply (no pun intended).

Yes, you need a common time source (i.e. timer). Previously that was the 
9037 Sysplex Timer, and now it can be Server Time Protocol (STP, which has 
no physical boxes). I was getting confused and thinking that Ted was 
talking about an external time reference -- mixing that up with another 
recent thread here -- and then botching my answer anyway. ETR is *not* 
required for Sysplex aggregation, but a timer (9037 or STP) *is*.

Again, apologies for the confusion.

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples
Consulting Enterprise Software Architect
IBM Japan, Ltd.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Utilization of Mainframe Software Licenses

[Timothy Sipples]

...Gee, maybe this time I can get it right. :-)

When I said "ETR" I actually mean external time source. I guess the 9037 
without any sync to NIST or any other external (colloquially) time source 
has been called an ETR.

Anyway, everybody should just read their contracts and that fabulous 
redbook, OK? :-) :-)

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples
Consulting Enterprise Software Architect
IBM Japan, Ltd.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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new mainframe software releases (C compiler mainly)

[Paul Edwards]

Jujitsu are pleased to announce the release of the
following software:

GCC 3.2.3 MVS 7.5 - GCC C compiler for z/OS, MVS/380, MVS/370.
Delivered in xmit format.

GCC 3.2.3 CMS 7.5 - GCC C compiler for z/VM, VM/380, VM/370.
Delivered in vmarc format.

PDPCLIB 2.00 - C (C90-compliant) runtime library for MVS
(all flavours), CMS (all flavours), Windows 32, MSDOS,
OS/2, Linux (new with this release), PDOS. Provided in
source form only, but also delivered as part of GCCMVS
and GCCCMS.

Hercules/380 3.06 v6.0 - Used to run MVS/380. It now does
S/380 even if you specify S/370, so that Hercgui will
work. Now has native support for ftp-rdw files (ie files
that have been transferred from z/OS using ftp with
the RDW option), so that you can quickly get your files
restored to a V dataset. Windows executables provided.
Unix users need to compile from source.

You can find the products at:

http://gccmvs.sourceforge.net
http://pdos.sourceforge.net
http://mvs380.sourceforge.net

(respectively).

Initial documentation can be found in gccmvs.txt,
pdpclib.txt and README.S380 respectively.

Any comments/questions please post over at:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-os380

where our complaint department is in operation 24
hours a day, even during Ramadan - may Allah have
mercy on our souls.

BFN. Paul.

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GUI Install Procedure for ISV Mainframe Software

[Duffy, Peter]

Hi, all,

Something came up yesterday that I thought was worth sharing, as I'm
concerned about it.  This looks like a wave of the future and it makes
change control on mainframes a potential nightmare if other vendors do
this.

I just had a meeting yesterday with a vendor who was touting their
software installation GUI for the mainframe.

It uses FTP under the covers to install a listener/service
program/whatever to interface with their database nucleus to web enable
all sorts of nifty processes.  

In the vaporware version in the demo they showed how simple it was to
install and begin joining data elements together in a GUI and allow ad
hoc inquiries in a "point and click and report" kind of way.

So a DBA or a developer could get a CD in the mail for a trial, load it
on their PC, install this puppy in an hour (vendor estimate) and, at
this site, they could join all vehicle records to all service records
for three years in a matter of seconds in the GUI and download gigs of
data to their PC until it gakked on the data volume.  

Meanwhile sysprogs would be fire fighting spikes on I/O and CPU for the
nucleus.  Customers would be complaining about response time.
Management would be asking "what changed?" and all would be going on
outside of standard SMP/E software installs.

If you are a DBA with rights to FTP and rights to update loadlibs you
would be authorized to install this.

If you were trusted with data access you could run this sort of ad hoc
query.

When I asked about if there was an SMP/E install procedure, they looked
at me with a quizzical look and said, "sure we cut SMF records."  When I
tried to explain the differences between SMP/E and SMF they were lost.

Has anyone else seen this sort of product installation method?

Peter Duffy
Consultant, Operations Support - Mainframe/Distributed/Network
__NISSAN NORTH AMERICA 
Information Systems Department 
Gardena, CA, USA
310-771-6472

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Re: GUI Install Procedure for ISV Mainframe Software

[Eric Bielefeld]

I did this on Vanguard's RACF products.  (That is if I remember
correctly).  It actually worked quite well.  It's not a real big product,
so I don't think I overwhelmed the I/O, at least not for very long.

What product did you get this demo on?  It must not have been Vanguard,
because their help desk people are very knowledgable.

Eric Bielefeld
P&H Mining Equipment

On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:56:10 -0700, Duffy, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
USA.COM> wrote:

>Hi, all,
>
>Something came up yesterday that I thought was worth sharing, as I'm
>concerned about it.  This looks like a wave of the future and it makes
>change control on mainframes a potential nightmare if other vendors do
>this.
>
>I just had a meeting yesterday with a vendor who was touting their
>software installation GUI for the mainframe.
>
>It uses FTP under the covers to install a listener/service
>program/whatever to interface with their database nucleus to web enable
>all sorts of nifty processes.
>
>In the vaporware version in the demo they showed how simple it was to
>install and begin joining data elements together in a GUI and allow ad
>hoc inquiries in a "point and click and report" kind of way.
>
>So a DBA or a developer could get a CD in the mail for a trial, load it
>on their PC, install this puppy in an hour (vendor estimate) and, at
>this site, they could join all vehicle records to all service records
>for three years in a matter of seconds in the GUI and download gigs of
>data to their PC until it gakked on the data volume.
>
>Meanwhile sysprogs would be fire fighting spikes on I/O and CPU for the
>nucleus.  Customers would be complaining about response time.
>Management would be asking "what changed?" and all would be going on
>outside of standard SMP/E software installs.
>
>If you are a DBA with rights to FTP and rights to update loadlibs you
>would be authorized to install this.
>
>If you were trusted with data access you could run this sort of ad hoc
>query.
>
>When I asked about if there was an SMP/E install procedure, they looked
>at me with a quizzical look and said, "sure we cut SMF records."  When I
>tried to explain the differences between SMP/E and SMF they were lost.
>
>Has anyone else seen this sort of product installation method?
>
>Peter Duffy
>Consultant, Operations Support - Mainframe/Distributed/Network
>__NISSAN NORTH AMERICA
>Information Systems Department
>Gardena, CA, USA
>310-771-6472

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Re: GUI Install Procedure for ISV Mainframe Software

[Bruce Black]

I have seen some mainframe ISV products which install from a CD by 
FTPing files and installation jobstreams from the PC to the host.  All 
the install has to provide is the host IP address, FTP logon info, file 
name prefix and the like.I think there are one or two companies 
which provide the programs to the ISVs to do this.  

But how it installs is not your issue, it is that it enables large 
volume data capture to the PC.  Sounds like a security exposure as well 
as a performance hog.  the installing user undoubtedly needs the proper 
authority to install and access the data, but once it gets to the PC, 
all controls are probably lost!!


--
Bruce A. Black
Senior Software Developer for FDR
Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300
personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
tech support: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.innovationdp.fdr.com

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Re: GUI Install Procedure for ISV Mainframe Software

[Duffy, Peter]

The idea of programmers installing software via CD into product
libraries they have access to scares the willies out of me.  It is one
of two issues I have with this.

"What changed?" becomes an increasingly difficult question to answer.
I'm not sure change control in most of the shops I've been in would have
prevented this sort of product from getting installed.

Web enablement of data access is another kettle of fish.  All computers
are really good at doing what you tell them to do.  I'm already dealing
with this one on several fronts as applications move away from "green
screens" to web front ends.  I mention it more as what possibilities the
whole CD install opens us up to.

The "enter" key was always a limiting factor in an end user's hand's on
process of using computers.  Now "point and click" trigger of a
humongous data download becomes more slippery to control.  Applications
developed by hand by your own programmers, or a hired vendor, were one
thing, CDs arriving for trials are another.  

Accountability for resource use, like I/O, CPU, and customer data,
becomes more murky as users can install things like this.  I now have
more to be concerned about, in my opinion, when programmers can load up
these kinds of things in "an hour".

/ptd

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce Black
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 2:42 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: GUI Install Procedure for ISV Mainframe Software

I have seen some mainframe ISV products which install from a CD by 
FTPing files and installation jobstreams from the PC to the host.  All 
the install has to provide is the host IP address, FTP logon info, file 
name prefix and the like.I think there are one or two companies 
which provide the programs to the ISVs to do this.  

But how it installs is not your issue, it is that it enables large 
volume data capture to the PC.  Sounds like a security exposure as well 
as a performance hog.  the installing user undoubtedly needs the proper 
authority to install and access the data, but once it gets to the PC, 
all controls are probably lost!!

-- 
Bruce A. Black

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Re: GUI Install Procedure for ISV Mainframe Software

[ibm-main]

From: "Duffy, Peter"
>
> I just had a meeting yesterday with a vendor who was touting their
> software installation GUI for the mainframe.
>
> It uses FTP under the covers to install a listener/service
> program/whatever to interface with their database nucleus to web enable
> all sorts of nifty processes.
> ...
> So a DBA or a developer could get a CD in the mail for a trial, load it
> on their PC, install this puppy in an hour (vendor estimate) and, at
> this site, they could join all vehicle records to all service records
> for three years in a matter of seconds in the GUI and download gigs of
> data to their PC until it gakked on the data volume.

Been happening for a while - even CC has espoused his "you-beaut" installer.
Haven't seen one I like yet.
We don't allow user creation of target libraries, but they can certainly
create (testing) loadlibs.
How useful they are would be debatable - unauth, no access to prod data, but
who knows.

The data access/traffic issue has also been around for a while. DDF has been
a real problem occasionally.
For example, "mickey mouse"-ware allows creation of SQL query that hits the
DB2 subsystem(s).
Something like -  "I wonder how much I got paid this week"; so download the
entire payroll system to a server, and run the (single record) query there.
Then check last pay, so do it all again.
Or run the query under a user that is (mainframe) password expired or
revoked. No smarts at the user end, so it continues to generate the request
(and associated enclave) forever, looking for an answer.
Bad design is bad design - goes back to (at least) FOCUS and QMF. Give the
end user a poorly designed application, and they'll eat your system.

Shane ...

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Re: GUI Install Procedure for ISV Mainframe Software

[Craddock, Chris]

> The idea of programmers installing software via CD into product
> libraries they have access to scares the willies out of me.  It is one
> of two issues I have with this.

I can see some fear of the unknown, but I don't see any reason 
for panic. If your shop controls access to production libraries
then there's nothing a user can do from FTP that they can't do
from TSO/ISPF. There is no black magic behind the FTP curtain.

> "What changed?" becomes an increasingly difficult question to answer.
> I'm not sure change control in most of the shops I've been in 
> would have prevented this sort of product from getting installed.

Maybe, or maybe not. If the tool used standard z/OS facilities
(in particular, SMP/E) and operated with the identity of a properly
authorized person (which it must anyway) then there is only a 
difference in the means of delivery. The content and methods are
essentially the same as those you are used to now.

Or so it is with ours. We use FTP to download SMP/E installable
materials into libraries specified by the user. Then we use FTP
to write SMP/E receive/apply etc. jobs into the JES unput stream
and retrieve their results. The person running the install uses
their own userid and password and they control the names of the
CSI and the DLIBs and TLIBS. Just as they would in ISPF.

If they are authorized (in the RACF sense) to do those things 
then it works just as if they did it all the long way via ISPF.
If they are not appropriately authorized then the logon and/or
subsequent steps fail, just like you would expect them to. On 
that basis its functionally identical with the "normal" way of
doing a full function product install, its just driven a bit 
differently. 

We also provide the same materials on ordinary carts and you 
can either spin them yourself, or use our older ISPF-based
installer to drive the process. The ISPF way is not as flexible
and it takes a lot longer, but the materials are essentially
the same and the resulting installed product(s) is the same.

I am not going to argue one is inherently superior to the other.
They both work, they both serve their purpose and the choice of
which to use is largely one of personal preference.

CC

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Re: GUI Install Procedure for ISV Mainframe Software

[Craddock, Chris]

> Web enablement of data access is another kettle of fish.  All 
> computers are really good at doing what you tell them to do.
> I'm  already dealing with this one on several fronts as 
> applications move away from "green screens" to web front ends.
> I mention it more as what possibilities the whole CD install
> opens us up to.

The install method has nothing at all to do with the functionality
that is installed or to the way that functionality is ultimately 
delivered to the user. You can install "web-enabled" functionality
through normal SMP/E channels and you can install non-web functions
through CD installers. The thing that lays down the bytes is not at
all related to the bytes it lays down. Typically. 

Its easy to come up with counter examples and there are many examples
of bad design. It is at least as easy to deliver badly designed user
interfaces in "green screens" as it is in other UI's. So my point on
this is; its not the user interface, its the design. Don't assume 
that they are the same thing. 

> The "enter" key was always a limiting factor in an end user's 
> hand's on process of using computers.  Now "point and click"
> trigger of a humongous data download becomes more slippery to
> control. Applications developed by hand by your own programmers,
> or a hired vendor, were one thing, CDs arriving for trials are another.  

Not at all. A user sitting in QMF can trivially cause an outer loop
(table scan) join of two 90 million row tables. That's for sure going
to keep your bad-ass high end z990 busy for a looong time.
Once again, keep in mind the only issue is the application. The way
it is delivered is irrelevant.

> Accountability for resource use, like I/O, CPU, and customer data,
> becomes more murky as users can install things like this.  I now have
> more to be concerned about, in my opinion, when programmers 
> can load up these kinds of things in "an hour".

Two responses. 

One. Its fundamentally not our job to say NO to the business. 
The computer system and its resources exist for the business.
If the business wants to burn resources (efficiently or not, 
its irrelevant to this issue) on outer loop joins, its your
job to say "yes sir, this is what you're going to need to do
to get your job done." If that means they have to buy another
godzilla box, its their -business- choice to make. They may be
willing to do that if its important enough to the business. 
More likely they will want you to figure out a way they can get
their job done without buying another godzilla. That's called
career enhancement opportunity.

Two. The accountability of resources like I/O, CPU etc is again,
no different. You already have (presumably) work arriving from
multiple places, 3270s, atms, (G)UIs, etc. The origin of the work
is not terribly relevant. It is not rational to allow access to
those resources (and especially to data) without a logon with a
userid and password, or some equivalent credential such as a 
digital certificate. If you are controlling access appropriately
then "see point one". If you are not controlling access then its
an entirely different issue, but again, there's nothing inherently
bad or different in the means of accessing that functionality.

CC

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Re: GUI Install Procedure for ISV Mainframe Software

[Tim Hare]

I can agree that the system is "safe"  - since, perhaps, the tool cannot 
get any more access than the user installing it.  However, at our shop at 
least, the problem would be change management  - but maybe not in the way 
you think:

We wouldn't have any notice of the tool being installed, but then we never 
get notice of (usually bad) end-user-developed applications that are put 
on the system, so that would change. Where the risk would be, however, 
would be that this tool depended upon some other software on the host 
(say, for example, that this tool was 'COBOL-BY-EXAMPLE' and gave them a 
GUI for developing COBOL  but was dependent upon OS/VS COBOL)., and we 
decided to drop that software - we would have no idea of this other tool 
and its dependency, so we'd break their application.

This happened to us once on a hardware upgrade, too - we had no idea that 
a user office was dependent upon vector processors, and when we upgraded 
we didn't order any! All our engineering-types had been working on Unix 
workstations for 5 years when this happened. We "assumed" that we were 
done with those kinds of apps on the mainframe, since they'd been telling 
us how it couldn't compete, etc then suddenly we find that we've 
killed a structural design program. 


Tim Hare
Senior Systems Programmer
Florida Department of Transportation
(850) 414-4209

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Re: GUI Install Procedure for ISV Mainframe Software

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
on 06/23/2005
   at 01:56 PM, "Duffy, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

>Something came up yesterday that I thought was worth sharing, as I'm
>concerned about it.  This looks like a wave of the future and it
>makes change control on mainframes a potential nightmare if other
>vendors do this.

Yes.

>In the vaporware version in the demo they showed how simple it was
>to install and begin joining data elements together in a GUI and
>allow ad hoc inquiries in a "point and click and report" kind of
>way.

No problem with that; you have essentially the same capability in QBE,
albeit not GUIfied.

>So a DBA or a developer could get a CD in the mail for a trial, load
>it on their PC, install this puppy in an hour (vendor estimate) and,
>at this site, they could join all vehicle records to all service
>records for three years in a matter of seconds in the GUI and
>download gigs of data to their PC until it gakked on the data
>volume.

They can do it now, if your access controls allow.

>When I asked about if there was an SMP/E install procedure, they
>looked at me with a quizzical look and said, "sure we cut SMF
>records." 

Now *there* is the problem. That vendor should be kept well away from
production on your system until they acquire a clue.

>When I tried to explain the differences between SMP/E and SMF they 
>were lost.

Explain that it is the MVS standard for maintaining an audit trail of
software installation and maintenance,  and that you aren't interested
until they have SMP installation and maintenance.

>Has anyone else seen this sort of product installation method?

The details are different, but there have been discussions before on
the lack of SMP competence at specific vendors. Has CA[1] finally
cleaned up its act?

[1] Not that they're the only ones, but the are the most visible.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: GUI Install Procedure for ISV Mainframe Software

[Duffy, Peter]

Thanks, Chris,

Not fear of the unknown, to my thinking.  More of a "what if" discussion
and following the logical chain of access and rights when people get a
fancy new tool to use, and how to get controls around it.

There were no controls like SMP/E jobs that only authorized users can
run.  The off handed way it was talked about, the ease of use, the slick
install and run, was a selling point 

They use FTP to a loadlib specified in the GUI.  Slip a CD in and fill
in a few blanks, click install, when done, click on the new icon on your
desktop, begin your work just as easy as installing a PC package.

Your mainframe now has new code on it in a library your DBA has access
to.

Your DBA has a new icon on their desktop, with access to any data on
your mainframe they would have access to.  More importantly, their
>>PC<< and all the processes running on it has access to that data.  Did
something more sinister get access, too?

Where in your change control procedures are there the checks and
balances to keep this from being an exposure?  With SMP/E jobs some
level of control is there, you get to track what goes in and where, and
your auditors are what passes for "happy" for them.  With this, the user
is happy as they get to bypass normal channels.

Maybe my paranoia is up, but when this topic was covered in a "Lunch and
Learn" as a selling point for this vendor's software, the other Nissan
employee in the room and I looked at each other and realized we had
exposures here.  

Others may not see it as an issue, but I'm putting together ideas on how
to control this sort of thing.

How many people get a CD, pop it in, do what it says, and don't even
think about the ramifications?  How much is the much ballyhooed
encryption going to help you if you now have this sort of thing going
in?

Maybe most of my data isn't as interesting as some other's might be.  I
thought I'd bring it up, see what you all thought, and see if anyone
else was mobilizing on controls, etc.  As I haven't seen things like
this before I thought I'd ask.

Thanks all for your input,
/ptd


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Craddock, Chris
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 6:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: GUI Install Procedure for ISV Mainframe Software

> The idea of programmers installing software via CD into product
> libraries they have access to scares the willies out of me.  It is one
> of two issues I have with this.

I can see some fear of the unknown, but I don't see any reason 
for panic. If your shop controls access to production libraries
then there's nothing a user can do from FTP that they can't do
from TSO/ISPF. There is no black magic behind the FTP curtain.

...snip...

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Re: GUI Install Procedure for ISV Mainframe Software

[Ted MacNEIL]

...
Your mainframe now has new code on it in a library your DBA has access
to.
...

Why is this an issue?

I don't care how you install a programme; if you don't have access to critical 
libraries,
you cannot screw the system.

-teD
(The secret to success is sincerity.
If you can fake that,
you've got it made!)

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Re: GUI Install Procedure for ISV Mainframe Software

[Barry Schwarz]

As of the 2004 tape I received from them, the answer is emphatically NO!

"Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:The details are different, 
but there have been discussions before on
the lack of SMP competence at specific vendors. Has CA[1] finally
cleaned up its act?

[1] Not that they're the only ones, but the are the most visible.



__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

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Re: GUI Install Procedure for ISV Mainframe Software

[Clark Morris]

On 24 Jun 2005 07:38:47 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:

>In
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>on 06/23/2005
>   at 01:56 PM, "Duffy, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>
>>Something came up yesterday that I thought was worth sharing, as I'm
>>concerned about it.  This looks like a wave of the future and it
>>makes change control on mainframes a potential nightmare if other
>>vendors do this.
>
>Yes.
>
>>In the vaporware version in the demo they showed how simple it was
>>to install and begin joining data elements together in a GUI and
>>allow ad hoc inquiries in a "point and click and report" kind of
>>way.
>
>> snip
>
>>When I asked about if there was an SMP/E install procedure, they
>>looked at me with a quizzical look and said, "sure we cut SMF
>>records." 
>
>Now *there* is the problem. That vendor should be kept well away from
>production on your system until they acquire a clue.

If this is an application product like an accounting package, it might
be installed using Endeavor or ISPW to control the product.  The
application world uses different tools to achieve the same end.  If
the product can't conform to installation configuration management on
either the applications or the systems side, you probably don't want
it unless they can show that they have an equally good tool.  

Are Innovation Products SMP installable?  I used to install them in
the 1970's and 80's and don't recall it but I am legitimately allowed
to have senior moments (Social Security Administration sends me
checks) and I ride Pennsylvania transit off peak for free).
>
>>When I tried to explain the differences between SMP/E and SMF they 
>>were lost.
>
>Explain that it is the MVS standard for maintaining an audit trail of
>software installation and maintenance,  and that you aren't interested
>until they have SMP installation and maintenance.
>
>>Has anyone else seen this sort of product installation method?
>
>The details are different, but there have been discussions before on
>the lack of SMP competence at specific vendors. Has CA[1] finally
>cleaned up its act?
>
>[1] Not that they're the only ones, but the are the most visible.
> 

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Looking for a part-time Mainframe software consultant in the Toledo area

[Marc Heimlich]

I have a customer outside of Toledo, OH that is looking to migrate off the
MF but doesn't intend to do so for another 3-5 years (we've heard this
before). They have a contractor on-site that is looking to retire, and they
have a very old, unsupported environment. They are looking for someone who
can come on-site occasionally, answer questions and support the operations
folks. 

The job would most likely entail 20 hour work weeks with the majority of the
time spent off-site working remotely with an occasional after hours call.
The two priorities are working with operations and disaster recovery. 

You will represent the Mainframe environment to the Ops folks. From a DR
perspective, you will be a hands-on resource, leading the periodic DR
testing done in coordination with IBM. You will work with the auditors and
make the system changes. The environment is pretty much locked down. There
is not a lot of sys admin work. There might be some need to move off of tape
at some point. You would also be responsible for DASD management. Here is
the environment: 

OS/390 V2 Base 
OS/390 V2 Print Server 
OS/390 V2 RMF 
COBOL for OS/390 & VM V2-Alt 
CICS/ESA V4 
Netview V2 CSO 
PPFA/370 
Print Services Facility/MVS V2

 

If you are available, qualified and local, I would love to hear from you!

 

Thanks,

 

Marc

781.272.4307

 


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[AD] CA May Mainframe Madness - CA MSM talk for system programmers, Friday 18 May: CA Mainframe Software Manager™ Overview and What's New Highlights

[Dell'Anno, Aurora Emanuela]

APPROVED BY THE LIST OWNER AS APPLICABLE



Hi all,

Just a note to let you know that this coming Friday CA May Mainframe Madness 
will host a technical talk on CA Mainframe Software Manager™  Overview and 
What's New Highlights.

The abstract for this presentation reads: Learn the details of the newest 
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The presentation will start at 10 AM Eastern Time (4 pm Central European).

You can register for this and any other MMM talks, whitepapers and 
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Thanks.

Aurora


Aurora Emanuela Dell'Anno
CA Technology - MSC
Sr. Engineering Services Architect
Tel:  +44 (0)1753 577 733
Mobile:  +44 (0)7768 235 339
aurora.della...@ca.com
<mailto:aurora.della...@ca.com>
CA Technology R&D Limited, Ditton Park, Riding Court Road, Datchet, Slough, 
Berkshire, England SL3 9LL.
CA Technology R&D Limited is a company registered in England and Wales under 
company registration number 07251836 with its registered office at the address 
set out above. VAT number 697904179.


http://www.ca.com/
• please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to!




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