Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 23:18:15 +, J R wrote:

>That just gives me a tax break.  I still have to pay for the service.   
>
>> On Jul 4, 2016, at 18:42, Edward Finnell wrote:
>> 
>> 634-5789? Actually, put them in business expense column and declare on  
>> itemized deductions.
>>  
I thought Bitsavers would convert them.  But then you must pay shipping.

-- gil

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[J R]

That just gives me a tax break.  I still have to pay for the service.   

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 4, 2016, at 18:42, Edward Finnell 
> <000248cce9f3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> 634-5789? Actually, put them in business expense column and declare on  
> itemized deductions.
> 
> 
> In a message dated 7/4/2016 5:09:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
> jayare...@hotmail.com writes:
> 
> do you  have an account number I can bill it to?  
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Where is format of Job ID documented?

[Charles Mills]

Interesting. Thanks.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ed Jaffe
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 3:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Where is format of Job ID documented?

On 6/15/2016 1:38 PM, Charles Mills wrote:
> Yeah, I know, JOBn or Tnnn.
>
> Is there a formal description somewhere? Where?

The reason the jobid is not documented is that it can be anything. 
Literally any values can be specified on the JOBNAME=, JOBID=, and USERID= 
keywords of the IAZXJSAB CREATE macro so, depending on which software product 
or component is creating the output, you could have all kinds of crazy values 
appear -- basically whatever naming convention works best for that product.

Most products don't do this, so their output inherits the values from the 
scheduled job. APPC/MVS and OMVS have been mentioned. APPC/MVS passes its own 
special TP jobname and TP jobid (Annn). OMVS passes its own special 
jobname, but simply propagates the JES jobid of the address space under which 
it happens to be running which means, if it's a BPXAS address space, you will 
get STCn/Snnn for JES2 and JOBn/Jnnn for JES3.

(E)JES provides an advanced feature, when copying spool output to sysout, that 
allows you to propagate identification information from the original job, which 
facilitates -- among other things -- JES-generated banner pages similar to the 
original. To illustrate my point, I did a temporary recompile specifying 
JOBNAME==C'YOURENOT' and JOBID==C'CRAZYBOY' and the result displayed in (E)JES 
was:

OUTPUT   2,290S  2,225J  45T  9,415,891 Records (0 Sched)  88 Pages
Command ===>
Cmd JobName  JobIDStatus  C Pri Dest  ODisp Records
---  /--- - --- - - --
 YOURENOT CRAZYBOY QUEUED  T 144 LOCAL WRITE 87

STATUS   2,290S  61X  2,402W  1H  45T  9,777,431 Records  88 Pages
Command ===>
Cmd JobName  JobIDStatus QueueJP Pos Records
---  /--  -- --- --
 YOURENOT CRAZYBOY QUEUED PRINT15  2K 87

The JES2 DISPLAY command output shows:

$HASP686 OUTGRP=YOURENOT.1.1,BURST=NO,FCB=,
$HASP686 FLASH=,FORMS=STD,HOLD=(NONE),
$HASP686 OUTDISP=WRITE,PRIORITY=144,
$HASP686 PRMODE=LINE,QUEUE=T,
$HASP686 RECORDS=(87 OF 87),ROUTECDE=LOCAL,
$HASP686 SECLABEL=,TPJOBID=CRAZYBOY,
$HASP686 TPJOBN=YOURENOT,TSOAVAIL=NO,UCS=,
$HASP686 USERID=EDJAFFE,WRITER=

I didn't try this under JES3 but, trust me, you will get similar results.

Even SDSF is able to display this information on the OUTPUT display.

SDSF OUTPUT ALL CLASSES ALL FORMSLINES 9,415,891   LINE 3341-3401 (3451)
COMMAND INPUT ===> SCROLL ===> CSR
NP   JOBNAME  JobIDOwnerPrty C FormsDest Tot-Rec
  YOURENOT CRAZYBOY EDJAFFE   144 T STD LOCAL 87

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Edward Finnell]

634-5789? Actually, put them in business expense column and declare on  
itemized deductions.
 
 
In a message dated 7/4/2016 5:09:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
jayare...@hotmail.com writes:

do you  have an account number I can bill it to?  



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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[J R]

Edward, do you have an account number I can bill it to? 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 4, 2016, at 17:42, Edward Finnell 
> <000248cce9f3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Since they're loose leaf(mostly) any 'office products' store can convert  
> them in a matter of minutes. Don't have to do all at once, maybe just when 
> you  need paper or toner?
> 
> http://www.pbs.org/a-capitol-fourth/home/
> 
> 
> In a message dated 7/4/2016 4:31:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
> jayare...@hotmail.com writes:
> 
> but  that's very labor-intensive without specialized  equipment
> 
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Re: Where is format of Job ID documented?

[Ed Jaffe]

On 6/15/2016 1:38 PM, Charles Mills wrote:

Yeah, I know, JOBn or Tnnn.

Is there a formal description somewhere? Where?


The reason the jobid is not documented is that it can be anything. 
Literally any values can be specified on the JOBNAME=, JOBID=, and 
USERID= keywords of the IAZXJSAB CREATE macro so, depending on which 
software product or component is creating the output, you could have all 
kinds of crazy values appear -- basically whatever naming convention 
works best for that product.


Most products don't do this, so their output inherits the values from 
the scheduled job. APPC/MVS and OMVS have been mentioned. APPC/MVS 
passes its own special TP jobname and TP jobid (Annn). OMVS passes 
its own special jobname, but simply propagates the JES jobid of the 
address space under which it happens to be running which means, if it's 
a BPXAS address space, you will get STCn/Snnn for JES2 and 
JOBn/Jnnn for JES3.


(E)JES provides an advanced feature, when copying spool output to 
sysout, that allows you to propagate identification information from the 
original job, which facilitates -- among other things -- JES-generated 
banner pages similar to the original. To illustrate my point, I did a 
temporary recompile specifying JOBNAME==C'YOURENOT' and 
JOBID==C'CRAZYBOY' and the result displayed in (E)JES was:


OUTPUT   2,290S  2,225J  45T  9,415,891 Records (0 Sched)  88 Pages
Command ===>
Cmd JobName  JobIDStatus  C Pri Dest  ODisp Records
---  /--- - --- - - --
YOURENOT CRAZYBOY QUEUED  T 144 LOCAL WRITE 87

STATUS   2,290S  61X  2,402W  1H  45T  9,777,431 Records  88 Pages
Command ===>
Cmd JobName  JobIDStatus QueueJP Pos Records
---  /--  -- --- --
YOURENOT CRAZYBOY QUEUED PRINT15  2K 87

The JES2 DISPLAY command output shows:

$HASP686 OUTGRP=YOURENOT.1.1,BURST=NO,FCB=,
$HASP686 FLASH=,FORMS=STD,HOLD=(NONE),
$HASP686 OUTDISP=WRITE,PRIORITY=144,
$HASP686 PRMODE=LINE,QUEUE=T,
$HASP686 RECORDS=(87 OF 87),ROUTECDE=LOCAL,
$HASP686 SECLABEL=,TPJOBID=CRAZYBOY,
$HASP686 TPJOBN=YOURENOT,TSOAVAIL=NO,UCS=,
$HASP686 USERID=EDJAFFE,WRITER=

I didn't try this under JES3 but, trust me, you will get similar results.

Even SDSF is able to display this information on the OUTPUT display.

SDSF OUTPUT ALL CLASSES ALL FORMSLINES 9,415,891   LINE 3341-3401 (3451)
COMMAND INPUT ===> SCROLL ===> CSR
NP   JOBNAME  JobIDOwnerPrty C FormsDest Tot-Rec
 YOURENOT CRAZYBOY EDJAFFE   144 T STD LOCAL 87

HTH

--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Edward Finnell]

Since they're loose leaf(mostly) any 'office products' store can convert  
them in a matter of minutes. Don't have to do all at once, maybe just when 
you  need paper or toner?
 
http://www.pbs.org/a-capitol-fourth/home/
 
 
In a message dated 7/4/2016 4:31:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
jayare...@hotmail.com writes:

but  that's very labor-intensive without specialized  equipment

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[J R]

Yes, I will as soon as I get around to taking inventory.  So far I've only 
tossed out duplicates.  

My intention was to scan everything, but that's very labor-intensive without 
specialized equipment. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 4, 2016, at 16:16, Mike Schwab  wrote:
> 
> Bit savers would be interested in scans of old manuals.  Can you give
> them a list of what manuals you have?
> 
>> On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 8:03 PM, J R  wrote:
>> "
>> We programmers just tend to be highly nervous packrats, and we should 
>> probably get over it. "
>> 
>> Guilty as charged!  I still have tree-sourced /360 manuals that I had in the 
>> '60s.  Every once in a while I appease my wife and grudgingly put one or two 
>> out for recycling.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 3, 2016, at 20:40, Jack J. Woehr 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> J R wrote:
>> And, even if I eventually do get everything downloaded, I have no idea how 
>> to organize it
>> 
>> I'm more or less a compulsive PDF downloader (and before that a compulsive 
>> bookshelf collector, still have sets from the 1990's)
>> but recently I've made my peace with IBM Knowledge Center. They're going to 
>> keep the info available, or if they don't, nobody
>> will be able to service their customers, and it's over.
>> 
>> We programmers just tend to be highly nervous packrats, and we should 
>> probably get over it. It's a grand waste of time downloading
>> manuals we might need. I grab the ones I'm using and get the rest when I 
>> want them.
>> 
>> --
>> Jack J. Woehr
>> 
>> 
> -- 
> Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
> Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Mike Schwab]

Bit savers would be interested in scans of old manuals.  Can you give
them a list of what manuals you have?

On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 8:03 PM, J R  wrote:
> "
> We programmers just tend to be highly nervous packrats, and we should 
> probably get over it. "
>
> Guilty as charged!  I still have tree-sourced /360 manuals that I had in the 
> '60s.  Every once in a while I appease my wife and grudgingly put one or two 
> out for recycling.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 3, 2016, at 20:40, Jack J. Woehr > 
> wrote:
>
> J R wrote:
> And, even if I eventually do get everything downloaded, I have no idea how to 
> organize it
>
> I'm more or less a compulsive PDF downloader (and before that a compulsive 
> bookshelf collector, still have sets from the 1990's)
> but recently I've made my peace with IBM Knowledge Center. They're going to 
> keep the info available, or if they don't, nobody
> will be able to service their customers, and it's over.
>
> We programmers just tend to be highly nervous packrats, and we should 
> probably get over it. It's a grand waste of time downloading
> manuals we might need. I grab the ones I'm using and get the rest when I want 
> them.
>
> --
> Jack J. Woehr
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: TSO TEST and SYSOUTTRAP/SYSOUTLINE

[Bill Godfrey]

The clist in my first post was run on z/OS 2.2.
The 4-character string "amp:" if present, is an artifact of the listserv web 
interface and should not be in the clist.
The clist has also run on MVS 3.8, without the TSOEXEC in front of TEST and 
with different SUBSTR columns as shown in comments in my earlier post.
The different SUBSTR columns are due to the 6-digit hex address on 24-bit MVS 
3.8, instead of an 8-digit hex address.
The column dependency could be eliminated, if somebody wanted to, by using an 
equated symbol on LIST, as below.
If the EQUATE was done after the SET, the output of LIST would end up in 
SYSOUTLINE2.

TSOEXEC TEST 'SYS1.LINKLIB(IEFBR14)'
EQUATE CVTDATE 10.%+38
SET SYSOUTTRAP = 10
LIST CVTDATE
SET SYSOUTTRAP = 0
SET LINE = (&SYSOUTLINE1)
SET DOY = (14:16,)
SET YYY = (11:13,)
SET YEAR = (1900 + )
WRITE TODAY IS DAY  OF 
CONTROL END(FOO) /* NEXT END IS FOR TEST, NOT CLIST */
END 

Bill  

On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 13:33:18 -0400, Joseph Reichman wrote:

>What version of z/OS MVS was this code run 
>I think Rupert Reynolds  mentioned in a earlier 
>Post on this thread that capturing TEST output is different then when he tried 
>it in the early 90's
>
>
>
>
>> On Jul 4, 2016, at 12:28 PM, Bill Godfrey wrote:
>> 
>> Here's an example of capturing TEST output into CLIST variables.
>> 
>> TSOEXEC TEST 'SYS1.LINKLIB(IEFBR14)'
>> SET SYSOUTTRAP = 10
>> LIST 10.%+38  /* CVTDATE */
>> SET SYSOUTTRAP = 0
>> SET LINE = (&SYSOUTLINE1)
>> SET DOY = (16:18,) /* 14:16 ON MVS 3.8 */
>> SET YYY = (13:15,) /* 11:13 ON MVS 3.8 */
>> SET YEAR = (1900 + )
>> WRITE TODAY IS DAY  OF 
>> CONTROL END(FOO) /* NEXT END IS FOR TEST, NOT CLIST */
>> END
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 13:58:51 -0400, Joseph Reichman wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have tried to capture test subcommand output I.E list under clist with no 
>>> success Dont  know about Rexx I am now thinking the AT subcommsnd in TEST 
>>> leaves you the ability to to exec a CLIST as part of the parameters  maybe 
>>> I'll try the SYSOUTTRAP/SYSOUTLINE in that instance 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jul 3, 2016, at 1:51 PM, Jesse 1 Robinson  
 wrote:
 
 I was sloppy. AFAIK the functions are equivalent.  In Rexx, you use this 
 syntax: 
 
 x = OUTTRAP("cmdl.") 
 "LISTALC STATUS"
 line_count = cmdl.0
 dsn = cmdl.i
 ...
 
 Output goes into the named array. Lines are identified by the value of i. 
 
 Equivalent in Clist: 
 
 SET SYSOUTTRAP = 600 
 LISTALC STATUS   
 SET SYSOUTTRAP = 0   
 SET _COUNT = 
 SET DSN = (&SYSOUTLINE)
 ...
 
 Output always goes into complex variable  Lines are identified 
 by the value of 
 
 The real difference for OP is the scope of output capture in Rexx vs. 
 Clist. When Rexx switches into subcommand mode, I don't think output is 
 captured from the original OUTTRAP. 
 
 .
 .
 .
 J.O.Skip Robinson
 Southern California Edison Company
 Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
 SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
 323-715-0595 Mobile
 626-302-7535 Office
 robin...@sce.com
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
 Behalf Of Joseph Reichman
 Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 9:54 AM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: (External):Re: TSO TEST and SYSOUTTRAP/SYSOUTLINE
 
 You use SYSOUTTRAP in Rexx thought it's a clist command unless you are 
 calling clist from Rexx
 
> On Jul 3, 2016, at 12:48 PM, Jesse 1 Robinson  
> wrote:
> 
> I use SYSOUTTRAP in Rexx all the time for ordinary commands. There is 
> indeed a huge difference between Rexx and Clist vis a vis 'subcommand 
> mode'. An example of subcommand mode is the SEND command under OPER. 
> Another is LIST under ACCOUNT. TEST runs in practice almost entirely in 
> subcommand mode. 
> 
> In a Clist, the exec retains control when running in subcommand mode. In 
> Rexx, the exec loses control in subcommand mode, so successive commands 
> must be 'stacked' ahead of time via QUEUE. Trouble is that in TEST, 
> subsequent command operands usually depend on the result of previous 
> commands, which makes QUEUEing commands ahead of time nearly impossible. 
> 
> I don't recall ever trying SYSOUTTRAP in TEST.  
> 
> .
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-302-7535 Office
> robin...@sce.com
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Joseph Reichman
> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 9:18 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: (External):Re: TSO TEST and 

Re: Short description of system address spaces

[Boris Lenz]

See "ABCs of IBM z/OS System Programming Volume 1", page 307 (323)

http://ibm.co/29l4I7T

Regards,
Boris


On Mon, July 4, 2016 07:33, Peter Hunkeler wrote:
>
> The z/OS Basics redbook that Mike pointed to is indeed a known good
> starting point. But it does not have a list of these adrdress spaces.
>
>
> Peter Hunkeler
>

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Re: TSO TEST and SYSOUTTRAP/SYSOUTLINE

[Joseph Reichman]

What version of z/OS MVS was this code run 
I think Rupert Reynolds  mentioned in a earlier 
Post on this thread that capturing TEST output is different then when he tried 
it in the early 90's




> On Jul 4, 2016, at 12:28 PM, Bill Godfrey  wrote:
> 
> Here's an example of capturing TEST output into CLIST variables.
> 
> TSOEXEC TEST 'SYS1.LINKLIB(IEFBR14)'
> SET SYSOUTTRAP = 10
> LIST 10.%+38  /* CVTDATE */
> SET SYSOUTTRAP = 0
> SET LINE = (&SYSOUTLINE1)
> SET DOY = (16:18,) /* 14:16 ON MVS 3.8 */
> SET YYY = (13:15,) /* 11:13 ON MVS 3.8 */
> SET YEAR = (1900 + )
> WRITE TODAY IS DAY  OF 
> CONTROL END(FOO) /* NEXT END IS FOR TEST, NOT CLIST */
> END
> 
> Bill
> 
>> On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 13:58:51 -0400, Joseph Reichman wrote:
>> 
>> I have tried to capture test subcommand output I.E list under clist with no 
>> success Dont  know about Rexx I am now thinking the AT subcommsnd in TEST 
>> leaves you the ability to to exec a CLIST as part of the parameters  maybe 
>> I'll try the SYSOUTTRAP/SYSOUTLINE in that instance 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 3, 2016, at 1:51 PM, Jesse 1 Robinson  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I was sloppy. AFAIK the functions are equivalent.  In Rexx, you use this 
>>> syntax: 
>>> 
>>> x = OUTTRAP("cmdl.") 
>>> "LISTALC STATUS"
>>> line_count = cmdl.0
>>> dsn = cmdl.i
>>> ...
>>> 
>>> Output goes into the named array. Lines are identified by the value of i. 
>>> 
>>> Equivalent in Clist: 
>>> 
>>> SET SYSOUTTRAP = 600 
>>> LISTALC STATUS   
>>> SET SYSOUTTRAP = 0   
>>> SET _COUNT = 
>>> SET DSN = (&SYSOUTLINE)
>>> ...
>>> 
>>> Output always goes into complex variable  Lines are identified 
>>> by the value of 
>>> 
>>> The real difference for OP is the scope of output capture in Rexx vs. 
>>> Clist. When Rexx switches into subcommand mode, I don't think output is 
>>> captured from the original OUTTRAP. 
>>> 
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> J.O.Skip Robinson
>>> Southern California Edison Company
>>> Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
>>> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
>>> 323-715-0595 Mobile
>>> 626-302-7535 Office
>>> robin...@sce.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
>>> Behalf Of Joseph Reichman
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 9:54 AM
>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>> Subject: (External):Re: TSO TEST and SYSOUTTRAP/SYSOUTLINE
>>> 
>>> You use SYSOUTTRAP in Rexx thought it's a clist command unless you are 
>>> calling clist from Rexx
>>> 
 On Jul 3, 2016, at 12:48 PM, Jesse 1 Robinson  
 wrote:
 
 I use SYSOUTTRAP in Rexx all the time for ordinary commands. There is 
 indeed a huge difference between Rexx and Clist vis a vis 'subcommand 
 mode'. An example of subcommand mode is the SEND command under OPER. 
 Another is LIST under ACCOUNT. TEST runs in practice almost entirely in 
 subcommand mode. 
 
 In a Clist, the exec retains control when running in subcommand mode. In 
 Rexx, the exec loses control in subcommand mode, so successive commands 
 must be 'stacked' ahead of time via QUEUE. Trouble is that in TEST, 
 subsequent command operands usually depend on the result of previous 
 commands, which makes QUEUEing commands ahead of time nearly impossible. 
 
 I don't recall ever trying SYSOUTTRAP in TEST.  
 
 .
 .
 .
 J.O.Skip Robinson
 Southern California Edison Company
 Electric Dragon Team Paddler
 SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
 323-715-0595 Mobile
 626-302-7535 Office
 robin...@sce.com
 
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
 On Behalf Of Joseph Reichman
 Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 9:18 AM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: (External):Re: TSO TEST and SYSOUTTRAP/SYSOUTLINE
 
 I don't think the clist SYSOUTTRAP/SYSOUTTRAP Work to trap TEST output 
 maybe Rexx OUTTRAP does didn't try that
 
 
 
> On Jul 3, 2016, at 9:16 AM, Rupert Reynolds  wrote:
> 
> TEST behaves differently (or did, when I used it in the 90s) in CLIST. 
> As I remember it, the CLIST that starts TEST keeps running for the 
> TEST session, so the next line of a CLIST after the TEST command 
> itself can be subcommands such as AT and GO.
> 
> As I remember it, there were important differences in SYSOUTTRAP as 
> well. I had a small collection of REXX and CLIST that could be run in 
> TEST to do things such as single step and redisplay registers, 
> storage, code, PSW and so on, almost half way to a full screen debugger.
> 
> I found the differences meant I had to mix REXX and CLIST to get the 
> job done.
> 
> Roops
>> On 3 Jul 2016 12:53, "Joseph Reichman"  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks so much 珞
>> 
>> Joe Reichman
>> 8045 

Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Tony Harminc]

On 3 July 2016 at 18:35, Charles Mills  wrote:
> I can understand the move away from BookManager (as much as some of us loved 
> it). It was a proprietary
> technology and I am sure expensive to maintain.

I bet if IBM open-sourced Book Manager, or at least the ,BOO data
formats, it would get a lot better. Surely they aren't still making
money by selling that technology?

> But PDF is an industry standard. The technology is maintained by Adobe.

The problem I have is that IBM seems to be in bed with Adobe, and
depends on their specific implementation of PDF viewing capability.
Sort of like companies used to require Internet Explorer for their web
pages. I don't use the Adobe reader (I find it is ever more slow,
bloated, and bug-riddled), but some of the light weight and much
faster readers don't work with the IBM Adobe-proprietary index scheme.
I have asked IBM to not require Adobe's reader, and they don't seem
interested.

Tony H.

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Knowledge Center Feedback and direction

[Lizette Koehler]

Cross Posting to IBM Main, IMS, DB2, and CICS.

Since there seems to be some discourse on this topic, I thought I would provide 
some information on KC from a Share Session.  Below is a snippet from that 
presentation.  Yes, this is before the CHANGE that occurred recently.  So some 
of the details may have changed.  However, if there is a new session at Share 
in Aug 2016, it might have an updated presentation on KC.



Session 169036 Discussion: Knowledge Center Feedback and Requirements 1 
Thursday, March 5, 2015: 12:30 PM-1:30 PM 
Jefferson A (Level 4) (Sheraton Seattle) 
Speaker: Geoff Smith(IBM Corporation)


What is IBM Knowledge Center? 

 A single website that brings together all the content formerly hosted in 
Information Centers. 

 All Information Center traffic and bookmarks are being automatically 
redirected to IBM Knowledge Center 


Advantages: 
– Improved search indexing to help find relevant information faster 

– Like Information Centers, it is search engine friendly. 

– It incorporates metadata to help users filter out irrelevant information. 
(product, time and task with more to come).
 
– Easily updated for better information currency 

– Users can create custom collections of documentation that they can turn into 
PDFs that they can download for offline use.

Key Values of Knowledge Center 

 It is the future IBM strategic framework for all customer documentation and 
information 

 United and Comprehensive: IBM Knowledge Center brings together IBM hardware 
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For those that have access to share.org, here is the link to the full 
presentation

http://www.share.org/p/do/sd/topic=50=11374


So if an are going to Share in Aug 2016, you might want to see if they have a 
session on KC and provide some feedback.


Lizette Koehler
statistics: A precise and logical method for stating a half-truth inaccurately

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Re: TSO TEST and SYSOUTTRAP/SYSOUTLINE

[Bill Godfrey]

Here's an example of capturing TEST output into CLIST variables.

TSOEXEC TEST 'SYS1.LINKLIB(IEFBR14)'
SET SYSOUTTRAP = 10
LIST 10.%+38  /* CVTDATE */
SET SYSOUTTRAP = 0
SET LINE = (&SYSOUTLINE1)
SET DOY = (16:18,) /* 14:16 ON MVS 3.8 */
SET YYY = (13:15,) /* 11:13 ON MVS 3.8 */
SET YEAR = (1900 + )
WRITE TODAY IS DAY  OF 
CONTROL END(FOO) /* NEXT END IS FOR TEST, NOT CLIST */
END

Bill

On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 13:58:51 -0400, Joseph Reichman wrote:

>I have tried to capture test subcommand output I.E list under clist with no 
>success Dont  know about Rexx I am now thinking the AT subcommsnd in TEST 
>leaves you the ability to to exec a CLIST as part of the parameters  maybe 
>I'll try the SYSOUTTRAP/SYSOUTLINE in that instance 
>
>
>
>> On Jul 3, 2016, at 1:51 PM, Jesse 1 Robinson  wrote:
>> 
>> I was sloppy. AFAIK the functions are equivalent.  In Rexx, you use this 
>> syntax: 
>> 
>> x = OUTTRAP("cmdl.") 
>> "LISTALC STATUS"
>> line_count = cmdl.0
>> dsn = cmdl.i
>> ...
>> 
>> Output goes into the named array. Lines are identified by the value of i. 
>> 
>> Equivalent in Clist: 
>> 
>> SET SYSOUTTRAP = 600 
>> LISTALC STATUS   
>> SET SYSOUTTRAP = 0   
>> SET _COUNT = 
>> SET DSN = (&SYSOUTLINE)
>> ...
>> 
>> Output always goes into complex variable  Lines are identified 
>> by the value of 
>> 
>> The real difference for OP is the scope of output capture in Rexx vs. Clist. 
>> When Rexx switches into subcommand mode, I don't think output is captured 
>> from the original OUTTRAP. 
>> 
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> J.O.Skip Robinson
>> Southern California Edison Company
>> Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
>> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
>> 323-715-0595 Mobile
>> 626-302-7535 Office
>> robin...@sce.com
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
>> Behalf Of Joseph Reichman
>> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 9:54 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: (External):Re: TSO TEST and SYSOUTTRAP/SYSOUTLINE
>> 
>> You use SYSOUTTRAP in Rexx thought it's a clist command unless you are 
>> calling clist from Rexx
>> 
>>> On Jul 3, 2016, at 12:48 PM, Jesse 1 Robinson  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I use SYSOUTTRAP in Rexx all the time for ordinary commands. There is 
>>> indeed a huge difference between Rexx and Clist vis a vis 'subcommand 
>>> mode'. An example of subcommand mode is the SEND command under OPER. 
>>> Another is LIST under ACCOUNT. TEST runs in practice almost entirely in 
>>> subcommand mode. 
>>> 
>>> In a Clist, the exec retains control when running in subcommand mode. In 
>>> Rexx, the exec loses control in subcommand mode, so successive commands 
>>> must be 'stacked' ahead of time via QUEUE. Trouble is that in TEST, 
>>> subsequent command operands usually depend on the result of previous 
>>> commands, which makes QUEUEing commands ahead of time nearly impossible. 
>>> 
>>> I don't recall ever trying SYSOUTTRAP in TEST.  
>>> 
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> J.O.Skip Robinson
>>> Southern California Edison Company
>>> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
>>> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
>>> 323-715-0595 Mobile
>>> 626-302-7535 Office
>>> robin...@sce.com
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
>>> On Behalf Of Joseph Reichman
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 9:18 AM
>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>> Subject: (External):Re: TSO TEST and SYSOUTTRAP/SYSOUTLINE
>>> 
>>> I don't think the clist SYSOUTTRAP/SYSOUTTRAP Work to trap TEST output 
>>> maybe Rexx OUTTRAP does didn't try that
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jul 3, 2016, at 9:16 AM, Rupert Reynolds  wrote:
 
 TEST behaves differently (or did, when I used it in the 90s) in CLIST. 
 As I remember it, the CLIST that starts TEST keeps running for the 
 TEST session, so the next line of a CLIST after the TEST command 
 itself can be subcommands such as AT and GO.
 
 As I remember it, there were important differences in SYSOUTTRAP as 
 well. I had a small collection of REXX and CLIST that could be run in 
 TEST to do things such as single step and redisplay registers, 
 storage, code, PSW and so on, almost half way to a full screen debugger.
 
 I found the differences meant I had to mix REXX and CLIST to get the 
 job done.
 
 Roops
> On 3 Jul 2016 12:53, "Joseph Reichman"  wrote:
> 
> Thanks so much 珞
> 
> Joe Reichman
> 8045 Newell St Apt 403
> Silver Spring MD 20910
> Home (240) 863-3965
> Cell (917) 748 -9693
> 
>>> On Jul 3, 2016, at 7:38 AM, Mike Shorkend 
>>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I am not sure about CLIST but for REXX, the following will place 
>> each output line into  a the stem variable 'test'.
>> 
>> /* REXX */
>> x=outtrap('test.')
>> push "end"
>> PUSH "go"
>> PUSH 

Re: Minimum Volume Sizes in the Wild

[Lizette Koehler]

The  answer to your question is 
 
 in your xx TB dasd park when you have a handful of 3390-54's filled for 1%?

- probably none.

With virtual storage arrays for Disk, only what is used, is allocated to the 
Volser.  Say you have a MOD54 defined.  But only 1% used.  Then there is only 
1% storage tied up to that Mod54.  If it grows, then the storage array probably 
takes from an internal Free pool and adds the extents (LUNs?) to that 
definition for a MOD54 until it is maxed out at 65620 Cylinders.

So, from my perspective, it is not always good to define all one type of device 
(mod54, mod27, etc...) the Internal mapping of the LUNs to those devices might 
leave unused storage,  or if you have something like FAST VP (EMC VMAX) then 
the FASTVP may have problems properly balancing the workload inside the array.

Just my two cents worth

Lizette


> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2016 5:16 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Minimum Volume Sizes in the Wild
> 
> We create as much 3390-54's as possible.
> We have some smaller volumes only because they were converted as is from
> ESS's.
> And we have some 3390-3 and 3390-1 for JES checkpoint and catalogs, but with
> the current GDPS requirement to eliminate all Reserves, I think it would not
> be a problem to combine them. On the other hand, how much space will be wasted
> in your xx TB dasd park when you have a handful of 3390-54's filled for 1%?
> 
> Kees.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of John Eells
> Sent: 28 June, 2016 18:19
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Minimum Volume Sizes in the Wild
> 
> What is the *smallest* volume size everyone sees in general use?
> 
> For example, will we create any problems if we assume that "everyone"
> has or can define at least a 3390-9 size volume these days?  What if we chose
> 3390-27?
> 
> --
> John Eells
> IBM Poughkeepsie
> ee...@us.ibm.com

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Re: DFHSM CDS backup versions

[Vince Getgood]

Thanks guys,
Sorry for the lack of response on my part.

We moved offices and datacentres at the weekend, and our DS600o that holds all 
our z/OS & z/VM systems didn't power-up...

I've been busier than a one legged man in an Ar** kicking contest...

Can you say "thank god for tape backups"?

Once (if!) my systems are restored, I'll try and respond more appropriately...

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Re: Minimum Volume Sizes in the Wild

[Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM]

We create as much 3390-54's as possible. 
We have some smaller volumes only because they were converted as is from ESS's. 
And we have some 3390-3 and 3390-1 for JES checkpoint and catalogs, but with 
the current GDPS requirement to eliminate all Reserves, I think it would not be 
a problem to combine them. On the other hand, how much space will be wasted in 
your xx TB dasd park when you have a handful of 3390-54's filled for 1%? 

Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Eells
Sent: 28 June, 2016 18:19
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Minimum Volume Sizes in the Wild

What is the *smallest* volume size everyone sees in general use?

For example, will we create any problems if we assume that "everyone" 
has or can define at least a 3390-9 size volume these days?  What if we 
chose 3390-27?

-- 
John Eells
IBM Poughkeepsie
ee...@us.ibm.com

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Jantje.]

On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 09:57:04 +0100, Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform) 
 wrote:

>I'm curious about other people's views.
>
My view is: "KC s...s". Sorry to be so blunt. I have ranted about this before, 
but I am feeling more and more frustrated every time I have to use it.

>I'm struggling to find anything I want in the Knowledge Centre these days. 
Better try Google. (Add site:ibm.com as a search term.) Fr better results 
than with the builtin search of KC.


>
>I'm currently looking for the z/OS 2.1 MVS Data Areas manuals (specifically 
>for IXLYAMDA) 
 Is http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/dgt3da01.pdf of any help? (I found 
it through Google and and lot of clicking...)



>
>To me, the KC is a big pile of steamy stuff, and isn't fit for purpose. I'm 
>spending more time searching for the documentation than actually using it!
>
>Is it just me?

No.


Cheers,

Jantje.

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Cannaerts, Jan]

Charles Mills wrote:
>There must be some members here under thirty.

Hi, 24.

>Do YOU like Knowledge Center?

After I found out that the top left button opens the drop down menu of old,
I stopped thinking it was completely worthless. It still makes very poor use
of screen estate, 4:3 is ancient. If you can make your page work on the many
different mobile screen sizes, you can support the two different desktop 
screen sizes as well.

But I find KC to be easier to dwell in than the PDFs. E.g: scrolling through
the different assembler services, I learn about the existence of functions
that I'd otherwise have to read an entire PDF for. That doesn't mean I know
their ins and outs. But knowing they're there, I can potentially apply them 
when faced with a problem in the future. Rather than having to go look for
them when the problem arises, or using another less suited, solution, because
that's all that I knew at the time.

I still use Google to search the KC. I think I've used the KC's search
Function maybe three times.

--
Jan

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Re: Short description of system address spaces

[Lizette Koehler]

Also, check out this link (search words:  order of tasks at ipl for ibm
mainframe )
http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/administrator/security/RACF,-Started-Task
s-and-System-Privileges/

The Tasks

System-related tasks are the minimum needed to keep your z/OS installation
ticking along. A fresh installation of a z/OS 1.4 SystemPac contains the
following IBM-provided started tasks:
 
ANTAS000 - Concurrent Copy Support
ANTMAIN - Concurrent Copy support


Lizette


> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 11:35 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Short description of system address spaces
> 
> The list may contain products you do not run at your shop.
> 
> I am sure automation tools may have some documentation on your list.
> 
> But how you identify CICS, IMS, DB2, etc... STCs, may make the list different
> for you and not correlate to other shops.  It might be best to use your names
> for those address spaces.
> 
> 
> Most tasks have been documented in IBM manuals, and it just might take a
> little digging to get the info you want.
> 
> I did a quick search on www.ibm.com and found this that might be helpful
> (search
> words:  IPL FLOW).  About page 26 and 40 might be helpful.
> 
> 
> http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=tss1prs3699=1
> 
> 
> If you have SDSF (or like product) you can list the ASIDs in HEX order.  That
> is the order the tasks are started.
> 
> Perhaps if you find a task you do not have documented, that might be easier to
> answer.
> 
> I think there is a certain order at IPL time that system tasks are loaded.
> After those are the ones the shop starts up to complete the IPL.
> 
> 
> 
> Lizette
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> > On Behalf Of Peter Hunkeler
> > Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 10:33 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: AW: Re: Short description of system address spaces
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >I see that Mike responded with a long list of names, which includes
> > >(I
> > >believe) a mixture of system address spaces and started tasks. That
> > >led me to wonder whether you were using "system address spaces" as a
> > >technical term (meaning things like *MASTER* and SMF and DUMPSRV but
> > >not things like RMF, SDSF, RACF, etc.) or whether you really meant it
> > >as a generic term that would encompass normal started tasks,
> >
> >
> >
> > The former, Walt. And to make it clear, I do not need a mere list of
> > names; I know then. I looking for a short description of those.
> >
> >
> > The z/OS Basics redbook that Mike pointed to is indeed a known good
> > starting point. But it does not have a list of these adrdress spaces.
> >
> >
> > Peter Hunkeler
> 

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Re: Short description of system address spaces

[Lizette Koehler]

The list may contain products you do not run at your shop.

I am sure automation tools may have some documentation on your list.  

But how you identify CICS, IMS, DB2, etc... STCs, may make the list different
for you and not correlate to other shops.  It might be best to use your names
for those address spaces.


Most tasks have been documented in IBM manuals, and it just might take a little
digging to get the info you want.

I did a quick search on www.ibm.com and found this that might be helpful (search
words:  IPL FLOW).  About page 26 and 40 might be helpful.


http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=tss1prs3699=1


If you have SDSF (or like product) you can list the ASIDs in HEX order.  That is
the order the tasks are started.

Perhaps if you find a task you do not have documented, that might be easier to
answer.

I think there is a certain order at IPL time that system tasks are loaded.
After those are the ones the shop starts up to complete the IPL.



Lizette

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Peter Hunkeler
> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 10:33 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: AW: Re: Short description of system address spaces
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >I see that Mike responded with a long list of names, which includes (I
> >believe) a mixture of system address spaces and started tasks. That led
> >me to wonder whether you were using "system address spaces" as a
> >technical term (meaning things like *MASTER* and SMF and DUMPSRV but
> >not things like RMF, SDSF, RACF, etc.) or whether you really meant it
> >as a generic term that would encompass normal started tasks,
> 
> 
> 
> The former, Walt. And to make it clear, I do not need a mere list of names; I
> know then. I looking for a short description of those.
> 
> 
> The z/OS Basics redbook that Mike pointed to is indeed a known good starting
> point. But it does not have a list of these adrdress spaces.
> 
> 
> Peter Hunkeler

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