Re: z/OS 2.5 first time installation

[Brian Westerman]

When you order z/OS 2.5 (or after if you have already done so), you need to 
order the COD package (you can do it from ShopZseries directly and get it 
electronically in under a day), which is a pre-built z/OS 2.3 (not 2.5 yet) 
system (with z/OSMF pre-installed) that you restore to a single volume by 
either 
1)ipling DFDSS 
2) or you can also do it from z/VM by ipling a DFDSS virtual machine, (actually 
any vm that can IPL from the file), pointing to the delivery data.  

The COD can come electronically (or I think you can still order a DVD) in a 
format that you can IPL directly from your HMC console.   I don't think that 
z/VM can IPL from a USB drive connected to the HMC yet, and the last time I did 
this (in 2020), I used an unused sandbox LPAR on (strangely enough) a z13s.

If your z13 has only one LPAR (that currently runs z/VM), you will either need 
to:

a) add a new LPAR via HCD and shutdown your zVM and power-on-reset the z13 to 
the newly created system with (now) two LPARs
b) shut down zVM and IPL the USB or DVD (from the HMC) and install the volume 
to a empty 3390 (you can then reipl z/VM and finish the installation from a zos 
virtual machine that you create under zVM.  The entire process of loading the 
COD from USB or DVD is about 10 to 15 minutes.

I have had to do both of the above, and option 'b' is quicker because you don't 
have to generate an LPAR that the site might never use again.

Once you have the COD zOS running in it's own LPAR or as a VM under zVM, you 
can log onto it and perform the installation of the 2.5 system from either 
z/OSMF or (if you received your 2.5 z/OS system as a systempac, you can install 
it that way.

I have performed the installation from COD quite a few times, and it's fairly 
painless.  It's a requirement if the site bought a new processor and the old 
process is so old that you can't install the newer OS from it.  If you go the 
z/OSMF route, the COD system has z/OSMF pre-installed and it will automatically 
start up, and the ID's they give you are already set up to use z/OSMF, so it's 
pretty painless.  I have found that most system programmers now-a-days have a 
VERY hard time getting z/OSMF able to run on older (pre z/OS 2.3) systems, so 
getting a COD is a quick way to bypass that issue.

Hopefully your z13 is at least a 400Mip machine, because otherwise installation 
via z/OSMF can take a VERY long time, especially under a virtual machine.  But 
the good news is that the entire process is actually really simple.  You can 
sill install on a slower processor, but it will be frustratingly slow.

If you need more help, feel free to contact me.

Brian

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Re: Assembler courses

[Robin Vowels]

On 2022-09-27 12:14, Hank Oerlemans wrote:

My extremely unhelpful advice ? Chuck them in the deep end !
When I was 20 my lovely German boss said write a channel program to
scan the CA-1 TMC for some criteria.
Many weeks later with BALR and USING and whatever and a hardcopy IPCS
manual it worked and that's the most complex thing I've ever written.
Who was that kid ?

Never got around to BXLE - which was, reputedly, worthy of a merit
badge in wider circles.


Despite the S/360 being a "safe" machine, with hardware
check for fixed-point overflow (among others of that ilk),
BXLE and BXH were the achilles heels of the system, because
overflow was ignored.
Even BCTR was not "safe".

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Re: Assembler courses

[Hank Oerlemans]

My extremely unhelpful advice ? Chuck them in the deep end !
When I was 20 my lovely German boss said write a channel program to scan the 
CA-1 TMC for some criteria.
Many weeks later with BALR and USING and whatever and a hardcopy IPCS manual it 
worked and that's the most complex thing I've ever written.
Who was that kid ?

Never got around to BXLE - which was, reputedly, worthy of a merit badge in 
wider circles.

I then escaped his clutches to the much nicer VTAM team.

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Unsubscribe

[Ron Hagler]

Sent from my iPad

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Re: IBM python documentation?

[David Crayford]

On 27/9/22 00:34, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:

Thanks for the reminder about the zoautil_py functions, I did know about them but there 
are gaps -- e.g. ZOAU has no direct support for simple sequential processing of VSAM 
files (e.g., to download a copy of VSAM data to a flat file in the Unix Services 
environment for analysis there).  I have used a Rexx script that executes the FileManager 
batch utility program FMNMAIN to perform such functions.  The FileManager batch program 
proved to be the most compatible in generating correct Unix Services output files for 
various flavors of VSAM input files where IDCAMS REPRO or DFSORT "OPTION COPY" 
outputs were less so.

Re: "ADDRESS TSO" needs - Rexx is not necessarily needed, as there is also the Unix Services 
command "tso" (or "tsocmd" for authorized services) to execute a single TSO command.  The 
python subprocess.run() function could handle executing that command and capturing the output as needed.

For more complicated "ADDRESS TSO" needs, yes one can execute a Rexx script in the Unix Services 
environment which uses "ADDRESS TSO" to execute a Rexx script also stored in that environment (or 
in an MVS library assigned to SYSEXEC) that then actually uses "ADDRESS TSO" functions.  A bit Rube 
Goldberg, but it does work, as my recent experimentation with getting LISTDSI output from the Unix Services 
environment proved.  Conceivably one could write that first Rexx script to set up an ISPF environment (all 
the needed DD's, etc.) and execute the second (functional) script in an ISPF environment (I haven't tried 
that yet; here there be dragons).


Should have used my lua port :) It supports all access methods and has a 
listdsi function that I wrote - io.listdsi(dsname)




Re: Writing an MVS I/O package for IBM python - ISTM that without documentation 
of the runtime architecture of the IBM python port (and also possibly access to 
the source of the port) it is not likely to succeed.  OCO strikes again.


It's certainly not OCO. IBM ship all the header files to write 
extensions including a zos.h. What you need to know is that it's 64-bit, 
enhanced ASCII and is compiled using the xlclang compiler. Extensions 
are shared objects so you need to following compiler options: -q64 
-qascii -qexportall. You may not need "exportall" if IBM have defined 
PyMODINIT_FUNC for the platform.





The new DSFS functionality may or may not relieve the need for an MVS-specific 
I/O package.  That remains to be seen.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Matt Hogstrom
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2022 8:28 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM python documentation?

If IIRC IBM loosely paired the IBM ZOAU to “assist Python”.  
https://community.ibm.com/community/user/ibmz-and-linuxone/blogs/austin-wells1/2020/12/11/using-ibm-open-enterprise-python-for-zos-and-zoau

The challenge I see currently with Python is that is runs in a USS environment 
so if you need to “ADDRESS TSO” you need to call a REXX from Python in USS and 
do the other work.  Its probably not going to happen but a “System” Python 
might fill that gap.

Matt Hogstrom
m...@hogstrom.org

“It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive."
— Hogstrom


On Sep 25, 2022, at 11:15 PM, David Crayford  wrote:

On 26/9/22 10:43, Charles Mills wrote:

It's trivial to write an MVS I/O package if you have a C compiler.

One might ask then why IBM has not done so.

I would suggest that they have not had a requirement. IBM use Python in their 
analytics products and for new stuff like Ansible. Same with golang, they need 
it for Kubernetes and OpenShift for z/CX containers. I doubt very much if many 
customers have tried golang. It's a great language now it supports generics. As 
fast as C++ with many advantages.



Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of David Crayford
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2022 6:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM python documentation?

On 26/9/22 07:34, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:

I know Rocket's port of python has some documented enhancements to support MVS dataset access among 
other things, but I have failed to find any documentation on the IBM websites for an IBM-produced 
"python Programmers Guide" (or similar) that would describe and provide examples for any 
"IBM-specific" functional enhancements to the base language facilities.

Is there any such documentation?  Or are the python.org
documentation websites the only reference material available for the
IBM port of python? (i.e., no functional enhancements at all are
provided in the IBM port)

Correct! It's trivial to write an MVS I/O package if you have a C compiler.

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Re: z/OS 2.5 first time installation

[Dejan Stamatovic]

Hi Alain,


If you are going to install zOS v2.5 under zVM and you do not have zOS v2.3 or 
later versions of zOS that you can use as a driver system, you will need to 
order a driver for the installation of zOS v2.5.


This driver (or COD as it is called) can be ordered with zOS v2.5 free of 
change.

What you have to be careful is order it together with zOS v2.5.


That will save additional effort to order driver system separately. 

I am not even sure you will be able to order this driver without an zOS 
operating system.  

COD comes with its instructions to install it.

Once you have COD up and running , you are ready for zOS v2.5 installation.

Dejan Stamatovic
CROZ DOO 
Consultant Manager

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Re: z/OS 2.5 first time installation

[Seymour J Metz]

Order and restore COD. Define a virtual machine to match the I/O definitions of 
the COD and IPL. Order CBPDO or whatever and follow the instructions. The 
driver system will be the COD.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Alain Benvéniste [a.benveni...@free.fr]
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2022 4:29 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: z/OS 2.5 first time installation

Hi,

A client wants to install a z/OS 2.5 on a z13s with nothing else than a z/VM on 
it.
I try to find the steps I should play to be able to IPL the z/OS. I just find 
how to succeed an upgrade from a previous z/OS...
I can't find the clear method to do it from scratch...

Thanks
alain

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Re: z/OS 2.5 first time installation

[Seymour J Metz]

COD is not the same as Systempac. COD is not meant to be, and is not supported 
as, a production system; it is soley intended for building a new system on 
another set of voluimes.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Alain Benvéniste [a.benveni...@free.fr]
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2022 5:00 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/OS 2.5 first time installation

Al,

It seems to be called « systempac »in the doc and it seems to be a paid option 
as you say.
I imagine i should ask to add db2 and the other products the client needs…

Resiliency Services on Z Mainframe
alain.benveni...@kyndryl.com

> Le 26 sept. 2022 à 22:52, Al Ferguson  a écrit :
>
> Alain,
>
> IBM will build you something you can boot from and get started with. I 
> believe you need to contact your support person to get started. They will 
> need to know if your are going to run under zVM, or boot it directly within 
> an LPAP. Will probably need information on your auxiliary hardware (DASD, 
> TAPE, Network, …). Then will construct a custom solution for you. I believe 
> it is a paid option, but I do not think there is much of an option.
>
> ___
>
> Al Ferguson
>
> Dulcius ex Asperis
>
>> On Sep 26, 2022, at 15:29, Alain Benvéniste  wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> A client wants to install a z/OS 2.5 on a z13s with nothing else than a z/VM 
>> on it.
>> I try to find the steps I should play to be able to IPL the z/OS. I just 
>> find how to succeed an upgrade from a previous z/OS...
>> I can't find the clear method to do it from scratch...
>>
>> Thanks
>> alain
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>
>
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Re: LONGPARM applies?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 14:00:24 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>I am 99% certain that the 100 character limitation has always been a JCL 
>restriction, not a "linkage" restriction. Two consenting programs can pass 
>whatever they want in R1, including a pointer to a "long" character string.
> 
OK.  I'll add in my RCF, "Charles is 99% certain ..."  If callers are 
unauthorized, no integrity
violation is possible.  If callers are authorized, they can be trusted.

TSO CALL enforces a 100-character limit syntactically, and does not support 
PARMDD.
But the Guide ought to mention TSO, not with the "mainly" cop out.


>-Original Message-
>From: Paul Gilmartin
>Sent: Monday, September 26, 2022 10:35 AM
>
>In Program Management: User's Guide and Reference" I read:
>"[LONGPARM] applies mainly to programs that are invoked using a JCL EXEC
>statement or a z/OS UNIX EXECMVS callable service."

-- 
gil

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Re: z/OS 2.5 first time installation

[Tom Brennan]

Is the COD still available?

https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=system-customized-offerings-driver 



On 9/26/2022 2:05 PM, rpinion865 wrote:

Is not Kyndryl an IBM company, that sells z/OS services to clients???




Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

--- Original Message ---
On Monday, September 26th, 2022 at 5:00 PM, Alain Benvéniste 
 wrote:



Al,

It seems to be called « systempac »in the doc and it seems to be a paid option 
as you say.
I imagine i should ask to add db2 and the other products the client needs…

Resiliency Services on Z Mainframe
alain.benveni...@kyndryl.com


Le 26 sept. 2022 à 22:52, Al Ferguson afergu...@neptunescove.org a écrit :

Alain,

IBM will build you something you can boot from and get started with. I believe 
you need to contact your support person to get started. They will need to know 
if your are going to run under zVM, or boot it directly within an LPAP. Will 
probably need information on your auxiliary hardware (DASD, TAPE, Network, …). 
Then will construct a custom solution for you. I believe it is a paid option, 
but I do not think there is much of an option.

___

Al Ferguson

Dulcius ex Asperis


On Sep 26, 2022, at 15:29, Alain Benvéniste a.benveni...@free.fr wrote:

Hi,

A client wants to install a z/OS 2.5 on a z13s with nothing else than a z/VM on 
it.
I try to find the steps I should play to be able to IPL the z/OS. I just find 
how to succeed an upgrade from a previous z/OS...
I can't find the clear method to do it from scratch...

Thanks
alain

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Re: z/OS 2.5 first time installation

[Alain Benvéniste]

Kyndryl and IBM are 2 independent companies.
Clients need to have a ibm customer number, required for scrt, upgrade products…

Resiliency Services on Z Mainframe
alain.benveni...@kyndryl.com 

> Le 26 sept. 2022 à 23:05, rpinion865 
> <042a019916dd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> a écrit :
> 
> Is not Kyndryl an IBM company, that sells z/OS services to clients???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> 
> --- Original Message ---
>> On Monday, September 26th, 2022 at 5:00 PM, Alain Benvéniste 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Al,
>> 
>> It seems to be called « systempac »in the doc and it seems to be a paid 
>> option as you say.
>> I imagine i should ask to add db2 and the other products the client needs…
>> 
>> Resiliency Services on Z Mainframe
>> alain.benveni...@kyndryl.com
>> 
 Le 26 sept. 2022 à 22:52, Al Ferguson afergu...@neptunescove.org a écrit :
>>> 
>>> Alain,
>>> 
>>> IBM will build you something you can boot from and get started with. I 
>>> believe you need to contact your support person to get started. They will 
>>> need to know if your are going to run under zVM, or boot it directly within 
>>> an LPAP. Will probably need information on your auxiliary hardware (DASD, 
>>> TAPE, Network, …). Then will construct a custom solution for you. I believe 
>>> it is a paid option, but I do not think there is much of an option.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> Al Ferguson
>>> 
>>> Dulcius ex Asperis
>>> 
 On Sep 26, 2022, at 15:29, Alain Benvéniste a.benveni...@free.fr wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 A client wants to install a z/OS 2.5 on a z13s with nothing else than a 
 z/VM on it.
 I try to find the steps I should play to be able to IPL the z/OS. I just 
 find how to succeed an upgrade from a previous z/OS...
 I can't find the clear method to do it from scratch...
 
 Thanks
 alain
 
 --
 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
 send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>> 
>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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>> 
>> 
>> --
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Re: z/OS 2.5 first time installation

[rpinion865]

Is not Kyndryl an IBM company, that sells z/OS services to clients???




Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

--- Original Message ---
On Monday, September 26th, 2022 at 5:00 PM, Alain Benvéniste 
 wrote:


> Al,
> 
> It seems to be called « systempac »in the doc and it seems to be a paid 
> option as you say.
> I imagine i should ask to add db2 and the other products the client needs…
> 
> Resiliency Services on Z Mainframe
> alain.benveni...@kyndryl.com
> 
> > Le 26 sept. 2022 à 22:52, Al Ferguson afergu...@neptunescove.org a écrit :
> > 
> > Alain,
> > 
> > IBM will build you something you can boot from and get started with. I 
> > believe you need to contact your support person to get started. They will 
> > need to know if your are going to run under zVM, or boot it directly within 
> > an LPAP. Will probably need information on your auxiliary hardware (DASD, 
> > TAPE, Network, …). Then will construct a custom solution for you. I believe 
> > it is a paid option, but I do not think there is much of an option.
> > 
> > ___
> > 
> > Al Ferguson
> > 
> > Dulcius ex Asperis
> > 
> > > On Sep 26, 2022, at 15:29, Alain Benvéniste a.benveni...@free.fr wrote:
> > > 
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > A client wants to install a z/OS 2.5 on a z13s with nothing else than a 
> > > z/VM on it.
> > > I try to find the steps I should play to be able to IPL the z/OS. I just 
> > > find how to succeed an upgrade from a previous z/OS...
> > > I can't find the clear method to do it from scratch...
> > > 
> > > Thanks
> > > alain
> > > 
> > > --
> > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> > 
> > --
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> 
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Re: z/OS 2.5 first time installation

[Alain Benvéniste]

Al,

It seems to be called « systempac »in the doc and it seems to be a paid option 
as you say.
I imagine i should ask to add db2 and the other products the client needs…

Resiliency Services on Z Mainframe
alain.benveni...@kyndryl.com 

> Le 26 sept. 2022 à 22:52, Al Ferguson  a écrit :
> 
> Alain,
> 
> IBM will build you something you can boot from and get started with. I 
> believe you need to contact your support person to get started. They will 
> need to know if your are going to run under zVM, or boot it directly within 
> an LPAP. Will probably need information on your auxiliary hardware (DASD, 
> TAPE, Network, …). Then will construct a custom solution for you. I believe 
> it is a paid option, but I do not think there is much of an option.
> 
> ___
> 
> Al Ferguson 
> 
> Dulcius ex Asperis
> 
>> On Sep 26, 2022, at 15:29, Alain Benvéniste  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> A client wants to install a z/OS 2.5 on a z13s with nothing else than a z/VM 
>> on it.
>> I try to find the steps I should play to be able to IPL the z/OS. I just 
>> find how to succeed an upgrade from a previous z/OS...
>> I can't find the clear method to do it from scratch...
>> 
>> Thanks
>> alain
>> 
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>> 
> 
> 
> --
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Re: LONGPARM applies?

[Charles Mills]

I am 99% certain that the 100 character limitation has always been a JCL 
restriction, not a "linkage" restriction. Two consenting programs can pass 
whatever they want in R1, including a pointer to a "long" character string.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2022 10:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: LONGPARM applies?

In Program Management: User's Guide and Reference" I read:
"[LONGPARM] applies mainly to programs that are invoked using a JCL EXEC
statement or a z/OS UNIX EXECMVS callable service."

"mainly" is tantalizing.  It leads the reader to wonder what exceptions might 
exist.
For compatibility with historic behavior, I'd expect NOLONGPARM (the default)
not to be enforced when a program is invoked by LINK, ATTACH, etc. or from an
unauthorized STEPLIB concatenation.  I'd expect a list of exceptions, or at 
least
an example.

RCF- worthy?

-- 
gil





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Re: z/OS 2.5 first time installation

[Al Ferguson]

Alain,

IBM will build you something you can boot from and get started with. I believe 
you need to contact your support person to get started. They will need to know 
if your are going to run under zVM, or boot it directly within an LPAP. Will 
probably need information on your auxiliary hardware (DASD, TAPE, Network, …). 
Then will construct a custom solution for you. I believe it is a paid option, 
but I do not think there is much of an option.

___

Al Ferguson 

Dulcius ex Asperis

> On Sep 26, 2022, at 15:29, Alain Benvéniste  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> A client wants to install a z/OS 2.5 on a z13s with nothing else than a z/VM 
> on it.
> I try to find the steps I should play to be able to IPL the z/OS. I just find 
> how to succeed an upgrade from a previous z/OS...
> I can't find the clear method to do it from scratch...
> 
> Thanks
> alain
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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> 


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Re: Assembler courses

[Peter Sylvester]

On 26/09/2022 22:40, Seymour J Metz wrote:

a && b   isif a THEN b else TRUE

?

Shirley a && b   isif a THEN b else FALSE

Short circuit operators can be very nice.


Ouups; yes.   thanks.

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Re: Assembler courses

[Seymour J Metz]

> a && b   isif a THEN b else TRUE

?

Shirley a && b   isif a THEN b else FALSE

Short circuit operators can be very nice.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Peter Sylvester [peter.sylves...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2022 3:52 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Assembler courses

Hi,

I have the feeling that the author of

https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Z9n56_GZoR00w22sogI3_RQ0O39K_O1yP3HvzHAo2fpEAgxBr-hrxrkfU9NnK-J_fHfMvKrrdldl7xs2GUeZtBH26GpYTwxXkCtfjggtpM4uYJDgglgpvpHb48TiwP2JGRlE422xyKe0alHCWSijzmqu7l-jxTRNWc4h0K_RrukNO3FqVh1i-8GvKbJ9YTMoySYFbhElKEvk_ikLVO0piVZmYo77F07K6i8Smv41n1rTN2LwPscOnE9kzSZf0GDEPtJ-uIMyH-zXU-i4vAcoJZWYs5_xESPjzl2FjMDNKpBzv4So1URdb4KPG8kvhSLxL6DC5i8sJnPc5vfVl6cUIS-7eaQm7wfN-Ps2ILng-E8S-x04_oAx2Xzj0VtFcMW0doXUavXUdYNkDKsTJOinS70X9QNUIdI13NhpoibFkNsxhzxSVKnZ-bDD5J50g3ax/https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Feclipse-openj9%2Fopenj9%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2Fruntime%2Fvm%2Fclasssupport.c.

might not know/like/understand the && operator.

The huge case testing length and values can be contracted into a single if.

using (len = 3 && memcmp(v,"ddd",3)

Ah the || operator. :-)

not talking about a static inline or macro in order to avoid writing "3" twice. 
caution about
obfuscation)

This "smells" using C like simple assembler.

Or the used compiler optimations cannot be trusted ;-)

When I read if a if b if c  I tend to expect some else. ==> if a && b && c

the  "goto done" can either be return whatever, it is done in almost all other 
situations).

I don't want to go into a length debate about 'return'.

if cond1 { ... return } if cond2 { ... return }

vs using "else" is sometimes "not so bad".

The "techniques" used in the code are not consistently used, and this *may* 
hurt the reader.

Anecdote: In Simula (and Algol?) :

  a & b isa AND b

  a && b   isif a THEN b else TRUE

==>    if (a && b) { .. becomes

   if if a then b else true then begin ...

you might or might not like it.

doing things before return or at the end of a block: syntactically "finally" or 
the infamous "else"
in a python "for".

I kind of cheated in assembler:  Whatever "block"  (block, (if, (loop, (while, 
(for, ...) there is a
"POSTLUDE name" (kind of named finally) and a "SIGNAL name" from the inside in 
order not to use
GOTO. Wording is all.

(block ...   SIGNAL c1  ...  SIGNAL c2 ...   POSTLUDE c1 ... POSTLUDE  
c2 ...  block)

writing all kind of variations of

goto end;

case1:  whatever := nonsense; goto end;

case2 : 

end:  return whatever

shows what:   C can be regarded as a better macro assembler (and this very 
useful for OS kernel dev)

The point is readability, expectation, avoiding noise ...  and obfuscation is a 
funny game.

I got used to hear (but extremely rarely to read) qualifications such as  
"c'est la merde"  or "so'n
Scheiss mach i nett".

I know two generations considered "lost" (grandpa was in Verdun and "dad" was 
born in 1922)


Best

Peter






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Re: Assembler courses

[Seymour J Metz]

Refactoring?

The Knuth article is a good place to start.

BTW, the last quoted paragraph is not my text; I assume that it's Gil's.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Steve Smith [sasd...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2022 10:13 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Assembler courses

lol... We definitely need a guide to refracturing code.

More seriously, a decent commentary on how to use goto "correctly" would be
a nice thing to see.  In my opinion, using it like REXX intends the signal
statement to be used is fair.  I can't at the moment recall much else that
I'd normally write.  Of course, signal in REXX is often as horribly misused
as any regular goto.

sas


On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 9:44 PM Paul Gilmartin <
042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 01:21:03 +, Seymour J  wrote:
>
> >As a companion to "Structured Programming with go to Statements" by
> DONALD E. KNUTH, I see a great need for "Spaghetti Code Without go to
> Statements". BTDT,GTS.
>
> That's almost trivial.  Refracture any spaghetti code as a single DO
> FOREVER
> containing a SELECT in which each WHEN clause assigns to a variable used
> to indicate the next WHEN.
>
> --
> gil
>
>

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z/OS 2.5 first time installation

[Alain Benvéniste]

Hi,

A client wants to install a z/OS 2.5 on a z13s with nothing else than a z/VM on 
it.
I try to find the steps I should play to be able to IPL the z/OS. I just find 
how to succeed an upgrade from a previous z/OS...
I can't find the clear method to do it from scratch...

Thanks
alain

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SLES15 SP3 Quarterly Update Images (QU4) released

[Mark Post]

Cross-posted to Linux-390, IBMVM, and IBM-Main

All,

SUSE has announced the release of the fourth quarterly update (QU4) 
images of SLES15 SP3.


Quarterly Updates are refreshed ISOs based on GA and contain the last
released updates. These updated ISOs are released every 3 months.

While s390x is most likely the architecture of interest for this
audience, we provide ISOs for all our supported architectures (x86_64,
s390x, aarch64, & ppcle64), and for Vagrant boxes, and for JeOS (KVM and
Xen, VMware, HyperV, OpenStack Cloud, Xen,). (JeOS = Just enough of an
Operating System, pronounced as "juice.")

To access this update, go to https://www.suse.com/download/sles/ Make
sure the following two items are selected:
- Under "Stable Releases": 15 SP3
- Under "Architecture": Z Systems

Then scroll down and click on the link in the text on the right below
the "Download" buttons:
"Please login to SUSE Customer Center[1] for the latest installer
images, update channels and your evaluation subscription details."

After that, the entire page will look differently, because you're now
accessing the SCC downloads. Scroll down and you'll see download links for:
SLE-15-SP3-Full-s390x-QU4-Media1.iso and
SLE-15-SP3-Full-s390x-QU4-Media2.iso. The Media2 image only contains
source, so it will not be needed to perform an install.

As the file names indicate, these are the "full" ISOs and can be used to
perform brand-new installations or upgrades.

Scroll further down and you'll also see:
SLE-15-SP3-Online-s390x-QU4-Media1.iso and
SLE-15-SP3-Online-s390x-QU4-Media2.iso. The Media2 image only contains
source, so it will not be needed to perform an install.

These are the "online" version of the install media. That means to
perform a brand new installation, you'll need to either access the SUSE
repositories for all the packages that have not been updated, or a local
mirror of the packages, such as provided by SMT (Subscription Management
Tool), RMT (Repository Mirroring Tool), or SUSE Manager.

This was (hopefully) the last QU for SP3, the next one will be for SP4.


Mark Post

1. You must create an account to access the SUSE Customer Center, or
SCC. There is no cost associated with creating an account, and I've
never experienced any spam from SUSE directed at this account. If you
do, please let me know.

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Re: IBM python documentation?

[Colin Paice]

I'm working on a Python external function(s) which can process datasets and
//DDNAMEs etc ...  using C interface... I'll post here when it is available.
Colin

On Mon, 26 Sept 2022 at 17:35, Farley, Peter x23353 <
031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Thanks for the reminder about the zoautil_py functions, I did know about
> them but there are gaps -- e.g. ZOAU has no direct support for simple
> sequential processing of VSAM files (e.g., to download a copy of VSAM data
> to a flat file in the Unix Services environment for analysis there).  I
> have used a Rexx script that executes the FileManager batch utility program
> FMNMAIN to perform such functions.  The FileManager batch program proved to
> be the most compatible in generating correct Unix Services output files for
> various flavors of VSAM input files where IDCAMS REPRO or DFSORT "OPTION
> COPY" outputs were less so.
>
> Re: "ADDRESS TSO" needs - Rexx is not necessarily needed, as there is also
> the Unix Services command "tso" (or "tsocmd" for authorized services) to
> execute a single TSO command.  The python subprocess.run() function could
> handle executing that command and capturing the output as needed.
>
> For more complicated "ADDRESS TSO" needs, yes one can execute a Rexx
> script in the Unix Services environment which uses "ADDRESS TSO" to execute
> a Rexx script also stored in that environment (or in an MVS library
> assigned to SYSEXEC) that then actually uses "ADDRESS TSO" functions.  A
> bit Rube Goldberg, but it does work, as my recent experimentation with
> getting LISTDSI output from the Unix Services environment proved.
> Conceivably one could write that first Rexx script to set up an ISPF
> environment (all the needed DD's, etc.) and execute the second (functional)
> script in an ISPF environment (I haven't tried that yet; here there be
> dragons).
>
> Re: Writing an MVS I/O package for IBM python - ISTM that without
> documentation of the runtime architecture of the IBM python port (and also
> possibly access to the source of the port) it is not likely to succeed.
> OCO strikes again.
>
> The new DSFS functionality may or may not relieve the need for an
> MVS-specific I/O package.  That remains to be seen.
>
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Matt Hogstrom
> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2022 8:28 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM python documentation?
>
> If IIRC IBM loosely paired the IBM ZOAU to “assist Python”.
> https://community.ibm.com/community/user/ibmz-and-linuxone/blogs/austin-wells1/2020/12/11/using-ibm-open-enterprise-python-for-zos-and-zoau
>
>
> The challenge I see currently with Python is that is runs in a USS
> environment so if you need to “ADDRESS TSO” you need to call a REXX from
> Python in USS and do the other work.  Its probably not going to happen but
> a “System” Python might fill that gap.
>
> Matt Hogstrom
> m...@hogstrom.org
>
> “It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive."
> — Hogstrom
>
> > On Sep 25, 2022, at 11:15 PM, David Crayford 
> wrote:
> >
> > On 26/9/22 10:43, Charles Mills wrote:
> >>> It's trivial to write an MVS I/O package if you have a C compiler.
> >> One might ask then why IBM has not done so.
> >
> > I would suggest that they have not had a requirement. IBM use Python in
> their analytics products and for new stuff like Ansible. Same with golang,
> they need it for Kubernetes and OpenShift for z/CX containers. I doubt very
> much if many customers have tried golang. It's a great language now it
> supports generics. As fast as C++ with many advantages.
> >
> >
> >> Charles
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> >> On Behalf Of David Crayford
> >> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2022 6:57 PM
> >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >> Subject: Re: IBM python documentation?
> >>
> >> On 26/9/22 07:34, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:
> >>> I know Rocket's port of python has some documented enhancements to
> support MVS dataset access among other things, but I have failed to find
> any documentation on the IBM websites for an IBM-produced "python
> Programmers Guide" (or similar) that would describe and provide examples
> for any "IBM-specific" functional enhancements to the base language
> facilities.
> >>>
> >>> Is there any such documentation?  Or are the python.org
> >>> documentation websites the only reference material available for the
> >>> IBM port of python? (i.e., no functional enhancements at all are
> >>> provided in the IBM port)
> >> Correct! It's trivial to write an MVS I/O package if you have a C
> compiler.
> --
>
> This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the
> addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential.
> If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized
> representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any

LONGPARM applies?

[Paul Gilmartin]

In Program Management: User's Guide and Reference" I read:
"[LONGPARM] applies mainly to programs that are invoked using a JCL EXEC
statement or a z/OS UNIX EXECMVS callable service."

"mainly" is tantalizing.  It leads the reader to wonder what exceptions might 
exist.
For compatibility with historic behavior, I'd expect NOLONGPARM (the default)
not to be enforced when a program is invoked by LINK, ATTACH, etc. or from an
unauthorized STEPLIB concatenation.  I'd expect a list of exceptions, or at 
least
an example.

RCF- worthy?

-- 
gil





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Re: IBM python documentation?

[Farley, Peter x23353]

Thanks for the reminder about the zoautil_py functions, I did know about them 
but there are gaps -- e.g. ZOAU has no direct support for simple sequential 
processing of VSAM files (e.g., to download a copy of VSAM data to a flat file 
in the Unix Services environment for analysis there).  I have used a Rexx 
script that executes the FileManager batch utility program FMNMAIN to perform 
such functions.  The FileManager batch program proved to be the most compatible 
in generating correct Unix Services output files for various flavors of VSAM 
input files where IDCAMS REPRO or DFSORT "OPTION COPY" outputs were less so.

Re: "ADDRESS TSO" needs - Rexx is not necessarily needed, as there is also the 
Unix Services command "tso" (or "tsocmd" for authorized services) to execute a 
single TSO command.  The python subprocess.run() function could handle 
executing that command and capturing the output as needed.

For more complicated "ADDRESS TSO" needs, yes one can execute a Rexx script in 
the Unix Services environment which uses "ADDRESS TSO" to execute a Rexx script 
also stored in that environment (or in an MVS library assigned to SYSEXEC) that 
then actually uses "ADDRESS TSO" functions.  A bit Rube Goldberg, but it does 
work, as my recent experimentation with getting LISTDSI output from the Unix 
Services environment proved.  Conceivably one could write that first Rexx 
script to set up an ISPF environment (all the needed DD's, etc.) and execute 
the second (functional) script in an ISPF environment (I haven't tried that 
yet; here there be dragons).

Re: Writing an MVS I/O package for IBM python - ISTM that without documentation 
of the runtime architecture of the IBM python port (and also possibly access to 
the source of the port) it is not likely to succeed.  OCO strikes again.

The new DSFS functionality may or may not relieve the need for an MVS-specific 
I/O package.  That remains to be seen.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Matt Hogstrom
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2022 8:28 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM python documentation?

If IIRC IBM loosely paired the IBM ZOAU to “assist Python”.  
https://community.ibm.com/community/user/ibmz-and-linuxone/blogs/austin-wells1/2020/12/11/using-ibm-open-enterprise-python-for-zos-and-zoau
  

The challenge I see currently with Python is that is runs in a USS environment 
so if you need to “ADDRESS TSO” you need to call a REXX from Python in USS and 
do the other work.  Its probably not going to happen but a “System” Python 
might fill that gap.

Matt Hogstrom
m...@hogstrom.org

“It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive."
— Hogstrom

> On Sep 25, 2022, at 11:15 PM, David Crayford  wrote:
> 
> On 26/9/22 10:43, Charles Mills wrote:
>>> It's trivial to write an MVS I/O package if you have a C compiler.
>> One might ask then why IBM has not done so.
> 
> I would suggest that they have not had a requirement. IBM use Python in their 
> analytics products and for new stuff like Ansible. Same with golang, they 
> need it for Kubernetes and OpenShift for z/CX containers. I doubt very much 
> if many customers have tried golang. It's a great language now it supports 
> generics. As fast as C++ with many advantages.
> 
> 
>> Charles
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
>> On Behalf Of David Crayford
>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2022 6:57 PM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: IBM python documentation?
>> 
>> On 26/9/22 07:34, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:
>>> I know Rocket's port of python has some documented enhancements to support 
>>> MVS dataset access among other things, but I have failed to find any 
>>> documentation on the IBM websites for an IBM-produced "python Programmers 
>>> Guide" (or similar) that would describe and provide examples for any 
>>> "IBM-specific" functional enhancements to the base language facilities.
>>> 
>>> Is there any such documentation?  Or are the python.org 
>>> documentation websites the only reference material available for the 
>>> IBM port of python? (i.e., no functional enhancements at all are 
>>> provided in the IBM port)
>> Correct! It's trivial to write an MVS I/O package if you have a C compiler.
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Re: Is HFS still a thing?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 26 Sep 2022 13:16:50 +0200, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:

>Well, maybe I should submit RCF on various UNIT=3350...
>Oh, I did it many years ago. No result, AFAIK.
> 
UNIT=SYSALLDA would be better.  BLKSIZE=3120 is covered by the
Historic Preservation Act.

I did submit an RCF about ALLOCATE DSNTYPE(HFS).  No result yet.

And an RCF about several IDCAMS topics.  They said clearly they'd
make "job step" vs. "jobstep" consistent, in favor of the former.

But they conspicuously did not address PARM length, important now
that PARMDD allows up to 32,767.  I suspect Binder LONGPARM(NO)
may cover it, but it might need clarification.

-- 
gil

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Re: IBM python documentation?

[Matt Hogstrom]

If IIRC IBM loosely paired the IBM ZOAU to “assist Python”.  
https://community.ibm.com/community/user/ibmz-and-linuxone/blogs/austin-wells1/2020/12/11/using-ibm-open-enterprise-python-for-zos-and-zoau

The challenge I see currently with Python is that is runs in a USS environment 
so if you need to “ADDRESS TSO” you need to call a REXX from Python in USS and 
do the other work.  Its probably not going to happen but a “System” Python 
might fill that gap.

Matt Hogstrom
m...@hogstrom.org

“It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive."
— Hogstrom

> On Sep 25, 2022, at 11:15 PM, David Crayford  wrote:
> 
> On 26/9/22 10:43, Charles Mills wrote:
>>> It's trivial to write an MVS I/O package if you have a C compiler.
>> One might ask then why IBM has not done so.
> 
> I would suggest that they have not had a requirement. IBM use Python in their 
> analytics products and for new stuff like Ansible. Same with golang, they 
> need it for Kubernetes and OpenShift for z/CX containers. I doubt very much 
> if many customers have tried golang. It's a great language now it supports 
> generics. As fast as C++ with many advantages.
> 
> 
>> Charles
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
>> Behalf Of David Crayford
>> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2022 6:57 PM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: IBM python documentation?
>> 
>> On 26/9/22 07:34, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:
>>> I know Rocket's port of python has some documented enhancements to support 
>>> MVS dataset access among other things, but I have failed to find any 
>>> documentation on the IBM websites for an IBM-produced "python Programmers 
>>> Guide" (or similar) that would describe and provide examples for any 
>>> "IBM-specific" functional enhancements to the base language facilities.
>>> 
>>> Is there any such documentation?  Or are the python.org documentation 
>>> websites the only reference material available for the IBM port of python? 
>>> (i.e., no functional enhancements at all are provided in the IBM port)
>> Correct! It's trivial to write an MVS I/O package if you have a C compiler.
>> 
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Re: Is HFS still a thing?

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

Well, maybe I should submit RCF on various UNIT=3350...
Oh, I did it many years ago. No result, AFAIK.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




W dniu 14.09.2022 o 20:05, Paul Gilmartin pisze:

I just submitted an RCF on various z/OS 2.5. TSO/E publications which
mention HFS with no mention of HFS EOS.



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Re: ADR971E RC 8

[Mark Jacobs]

That's what I finally used to perform the copy. Worked fine.

Mark Jacobs 

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com


--- Original Message ---
On Monday, September 26th, 2022 at 7:11 AM, Radoslaw Skorupka 
 wrote:


> Is it possible to copy LDS dataset using IDCAMS REPRO? (manual is clear
> - yes)
> I mean CI level operations, since there are no records inside.
> Control Intervals are "EF-agnostic", so the source can be non-EF and
> target can be EF.
> 
> So, wouldn't be possible dss would use IDCAMS under the cover?
> 
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> W dniu 13.09.2022 o 19:56, Ernesto Figueroa pisze:
> 
> > Ok, yes.
> > 
> > Then that is correct and the way I things should be working. My friend is 
> > the REDBOOK VSAM Demystified…it has a nice section for each of the two 
> > Extended Addressable VS Extended Format.
> > 
> > So, Extended Addressable is typically required to be Extended Format (and 
> > therefore SMS), except for non-SMS LDS (apparently) which can be Extended 
> > Addressable and non-SMS.
> > 
> > So, the 32-byte larger physical block size for extended format data sets 
> > still holds true on why we cannot copy between them.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Ernesto E. Figueroa
> > DFSMSdss Product Owner
> > 
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU on behalf of 
> > Mark Jacobs 0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu
> > Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 10:50 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: ADR971E RC 8
> > Let me rephrase that. The LISTC command on the non-SMS managed VSAM LDS has 
> > an attribute of EXT-ADDR, whereas the SMS managed VSAM LDS has both 
> > EXT-ADDR and EXTENDED. I had assumed that EXT-ADDR requires EXTENDED. I'm a 
> > tad confused.
> > 
> > Mark Jacobs
> > 
> > Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
> > 
> > GPG Public Key - 
> > https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com
> > 
> > --- Original Message ---
> > On Tuesday, September 13th, 2022 at 1:29 PM, Ernesto Figueroa 
> > erfig...@us.ibm.com wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi Mark, as far as I know SMS is a requirement for extended-format data 
> > > sets.
> > > 
> > > If you were able to create a non-SMS extended format, it would indeed be 
> > > news to me.
> > > Can you show me how you created them and the catalog entries that reflect 
> > > that EA/EF status.
> > > 
> > > Thanks!
> > > 
> > > Ernesto E. Figueroa
> > > DFSMSdss Product Owner
> > > 
> > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU on behalf of 
> > > Mark Jacobs 0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu
> > > 
> > > Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:14 AM
> > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > > 
> > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: ADR971E RC 8
> > > I can define an EA/EF VSAM Linear dataset on both SMS and Non-SMS 
> > > volumes. Both are usable and the catalog entries for both reflect their 
> > > EA/EF status.
> > > 
> > > Mark Jacobs
> > > 
> > > Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
> > > 
> > > GPG Public Key - 
> > > https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com
> > > 
> > > --- Original Message ---
> > > On Tuesday, September 13th, 2022 at 12:05 PM, Ernesto Figueroa 
> > > erfig...@us.ibm.com wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Hi Mark,
> > > > 
> > > > The reason ADRDSSU cannot copy/restore non-SMS extended addressable 
> > > > VSAM LDS data sets to SMS managed extended addressable VSAM LDS is 
> > > > because the non-SMS EA is not an extended-format data set, which 
> > > > requires it to be SMS. The SMS EA is extended-format, and therefore it 
> > > > has an additional 32bytes per physical block. Since the blocks are not 
> > > > the same, we cannot copy/restore tracks between them.
> > > > 
> > > > I hope this answers your question,
> > > > Thanks!
> > > > 
> > > > Ernesto E. Figueroa
> > > > DFSMSdss Product Owner
> > > > 
> > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU on behalf 
> > > > of Mark Jacobs 0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu
> > > > 
> > > > Date: Monday, September 12, 2022 at 10:55 AM
> > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > > > 
> > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] ADR971E RC 8
> > > > I got around the problem a different way, but I'd really like to 
> > > > understand why ADRDSSU won't restore(logically dumped) or copy a 
> > > > non-SMS extended addressable VSAM LDS dataset to an SMS managed 
> > > > extended addressable VSAM LDS. Is there something within the physical 
> > > > dataset that's different between it being SMS managed vs not being SMS 
> > > > managed?
> > > > 
> > > > Mark Jacobs
> > > > 
> > > > Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
> > > > 
> > > > GPG Public Key - 
> > > > 

Re: ADR971E RC 8

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

Is it possible to copy LDS dataset using IDCAMS REPRO? (manual is clear 
- yes)

I mean CI level operations, since there are no records inside.
Control Intervals are "EF-agnostic", so the source can be non-EF and 
target can be EF.


So, wouldn't be possible dss would use IDCAMS under the cover?

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland





W dniu 13.09.2022 o 19:56, Ernesto Figueroa pisze:

Ok, yes.

Then that is correct and the way I things should be working.  My friend is the 
REDBOOK VSAM Demystified…it has a nice section for each of the two Extended 
Addressable VS Extended Format.

So, Extended Addressable is typically required to be Extended Format (and 
therefore SMS), except for non-SMS LDS (apparently) which can be Extended 
Addressable and non-SMS.

So, the 32-byte larger physical block size for extended format data sets still 
holds true on why we cannot copy between them.

Thanks,


Ernesto E. Figueroa
DFSMSdss Product Owner



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Mark 
Jacobs <0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 10:50 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: ADR971E RC 8
Let me rephrase that. The LISTC command on the non-SMS managed VSAM LDS has an 
attribute of EXT-ADDR, whereas the SMS managed VSAM LDS has both EXT-ADDR and 
EXTENDED. I had assumed that EXT-ADDR requires EXTENDED. I'm a tad confused.

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com


--- Original Message ---
On Tuesday, September 13th, 2022 at 1:29 PM, Ernesto Figueroa 
 wrote:



Hi Mark, as far as I know SMS is a requirement for extended-format data sets.

If you were able to create a non-SMS extended format, it would indeed be news 
to me.
Can you show me how you created them and the catalog entries that reflect that 
EA/EF status.

Thanks!

Ernesto E. Figueroa
DFSMSdss Product Owner



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU on behalf of Mark 
Jacobs 0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu

Date: Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:14 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU

Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: ADR971E RC 8
I can define an EA/EF VSAM Linear dataset on both SMS and Non-SMS volumes. Both 
are usable and the catalog entries for both reflect their EA/EF status.

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com




--- Original Message ---
On Tuesday, September 13th, 2022 at 12:05 PM, Ernesto Figueroa 
erfig...@us.ibm.com wrote:




Hi Mark,

The reason ADRDSSU cannot copy/restore non-SMS extended addressable VSAM LDS 
data sets to SMS managed extended addressable VSAM LDS is because the non-SMS 
EA is not an extended-format data set, which requires it to be SMS. The SMS EA 
is extended-format, and therefore it has an additional 32bytes per physical 
block. Since the blocks are not the same, we cannot copy/restore tracks between 
them.

I hope this answers your question,
Thanks!

Ernesto E. Figueroa
DFSMSdss Product Owner

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU on behalf of Mark 
Jacobs 0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu

Date: Monday, September 12, 2022 at 10:55 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU

Subject: [EXTERNAL] ADR971E RC 8
I got around the problem a different way, but I'd really like to understand why 
ADRDSSU won't restore(logically dumped) or copy a non-SMS extended addressable 
VSAM LDS dataset to an SMS managed extended addressable VSAM LDS. Is there 
something within the physical dataset that's different between it being SMS 
managed vs not being SMS managed?

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com




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Re: Assembler courses

[Bernd Oppolzer]

What I like about my "garbage language":

since 2011 it is "my garbage language";
I can add new control statements to it and thus eliminate the need for gotos
most of the time, because the old use cases of goto now have new solutions
(similar to C). And for many other needs like string handling, File I/O 
etc., it is (for me)
far superior than other languages at hand (of course, due to extensions 
I made

in the last 10 years).

It now has more features than IBMs Pascal/VS had, and it is portable 
across platforms

(the P-Code generated on one platform will execute on the other)
and I will continue to extend it, as soon as I have more time to do so.
Ok: maybe it has more bugs than Pascal/VS, but if someone of the user 
community

tells me about serious bugs, I will try to fix them.

BTW: extending GOTO to allow identifiers as targets is not on my ToDo list
(at the moment).

Kind regards

Bernd


Am 26.09.2022 um 02:38 schrieb David Crayford:

According to Linus you’ve been brainwashed by using a garbage language 
https://koblents.com/Ches/Links/Month-Mar-2013/20-Using-Goto-in-Linux-Kernel-Code/


On 26 Sep 2022, at 1:43 am, Bernd Oppolzer  wrote:

I try to be not dogmatic about GOTO statements,
in fact, I am coding COBOL in my money (everyday) job, and there are lots of GO 
TOs around;
I try to remove them, when I do larger refactoring, but if not, I leave them 
untouched.

But now for another GOTO story.

When I started my Stanford Pascal compiler adventure in 2011, the first 
compiler pass (PASCAL1)
had around 50 GOTO statements in it (in fact: 50 numeric labels which are 
targets of GOTOs in Pascal;
in Pascal, BTW, GOTOs are allowed, but they are sort of uncomfortable;
you need a label declaration for them, not only the GOTO statement and the 
target label -
because the label is local to a block, the label number may be reused in 
different blocks).
The Stanford compiler, as many other Pascal compilers, is self-hosted,
that means, it is written in Stanford Pascal and compiled by itself.
The Stanford Pascal compiler pass 1 had 6.000 lines in 2011 ... with the 50 
labels mentioned above
(well, this was the 1982 McGill version, to be honest).

One of my first extensions to Stanford Pascal was to add CONTINUE, BREAK and 
RETURN statements
to it (semantics like in C). It turned out that almost all GOTOs were used to 
implement the missing
statements CONTINUE, BREAK and RETURN using GOTOs. I then started (after some 
time)
to remove the GOTOs by replacing them by the new statements, where this was 
possible
without problems.

Today the compiler pass 1 has almost 25.000 lines. It only contains 7 GOTO 
statemens (I just checked it).
Because, see above, I am not dogmatic about GOTO, I will leave them, as long as 
there is no need
to work on the procedures containing them.
The compiler story (including downloads) is here: 
http://bernd-oppolzer.de/job9.htm

IMO, GOTOs (and the statements mentioned above) must be used with care.
If you don't use them right, nobody will be able to follow the logic in your 
programs,
including yourself (after some time). Indentation is key, and meaningful 
comments.

Kind regards

Bernd



Am 25.09.2022 um 13:51 schrieb David Crayford:
Another thing that makes me incredibly dubious about some of the opinions in these videos 
is the hackneyed nonsense about "goto considered harmful". The original paper 
was misunderstood in that all goto statements are harmful and brainwashed a generation. 
Some of these videos present a trivial example using goto and refactor it using 
if/ifelse. In programming languages without scope based cleanup goto is not harmful. In 
fact it's leads to clean code as the branch direction is always descending to a cleanup 
block. Happily for me, the young guys I work with writing systems level Metal/C code 
haven't been seduced by this dogmatic BS.  Good C code uses goto statements as opposed to 
heavily nested or superfluously functionally decomposed routines. The IBM Openj9 JVM C 
code is a case in point 
https://github.com/eclipse-openj9/openj9/blob/master/runtime/vm/classsupport.c. I 
challenge anybody to write better code without goto statements.



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