Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd
An unintentional repeat. And yes the PDSE's along with all datasets are shared between both sysplexes as all dasd is shared. Not ideal but it is what it is so I was looking for a solution. -- Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) Mainframe Systems Programmer Enterprise Infrastructure Support (Station 200) (005OP6.3.10) VA OI&T Service Delivery & Engineering -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Elardus Engelbrecht Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 8:55 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) wrote: >The reason for the questioning is that there are PDSE's that are access from >both sysplexes, since the dasd/catalogs, are shared that have gone bad. Adding >more discipline on the access is one way and the other is to let the system >manage the access. Is this a repeat of your thread 'Corrupt PDSE dataset' earlier in March 2016? Ted and Radoslaw and others warned in that thread that PDSE datasets are NOT to be shared across SysPlexes! Tom Marchant also asked (and is still waiting for an answer) on 10 March whether your PDSE were shared across Sysplexes or not. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd
The original PDSE issue was a PDSE was being read (no updates) on both sysplexes and it became corrupted. I was asked about PDSE protection for a new project and that prompted this thread. I was hoping there was a way for GRS to span multiple sysplexes - apparently it can't - but that is a question worth asking. -- Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) Mainframe Systems Programmer Enterprise Infrastructure Support (Station 200) (005OP6.3.10) VA OI&T Service Delivery & Engineering -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 9:05 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd So then the problem is solved, you do something that definitely causes errors and you ask us how to avoid the unavoidable. We can't. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) Sent: 01 April, 2016 16:01 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd An unintentional repeat. And yes the PDSE's along with all datasets are shared between both sysplexes as all dasd is shared. Not ideal but it is what it is so I was looking for a solution. -- Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) Mainframe Systems Programmer Enterprise Infrastructure Support (Station 200) (005OP6.3.10) VA OI&T Service Delivery & Engineering -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Elardus Engelbrecht Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 8:55 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) wrote: >The reason for the questioning is that there are PDSE's that are access from >both sysplexes, since the dasd/catalogs, are shared that have gone bad. Adding >more discipline on the access is one way and the other is to let the system >manage the access. Is this a repeat of your thread 'Corrupt PDSE dataset' earlier in March 2016? Ted and Radoslaw and others warned in that thread that PDSE datasets are NOT to be shared across SysPlexes! Tom Marchant also asked (and is still waiting for an answer) on 10 March whether your PDSE were shared across Sysplexes or not. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd
So then the problem is solved, you do something that definitely causes errors and you ask us how to avoid the unavoidable. We can't. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) Sent: 01 April, 2016 16:01 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd An unintentional repeat. And yes the PDSE's along with all datasets are shared between both sysplexes as all dasd is shared. Not ideal but it is what it is so I was looking for a solution. -- Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) Mainframe Systems Programmer Enterprise Infrastructure Support (Station 200) (005OP6.3.10) VA OI&T Service Delivery & Engineering -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Elardus Engelbrecht Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 8:55 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) wrote: >The reason for the questioning is that there are PDSE's that are access from >both sysplexes, since the dasd/catalogs, are shared that have gone bad. Adding >more discipline on the access is one way and the other is to let the system >manage the access. Is this a repeat of your thread 'Corrupt PDSE dataset' earlier in March 2016? Ted and Radoslaw and others warned in that thread that PDSE datasets are NOT to be shared across SysPlexes! Tom Marchant also asked (and is still waiting for an answer) on 10 March whether your PDSE were shared across Sysplexes or not. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd
Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) wrote: >An unintentional repeat. It is all right. It seemed you got caught in this bad situation. >The original PDSE issue was a PDSE was being read (no updates) on both >sysplexes and it became corrupted. I was asked about PDSE protection for a >new project and that prompted this thread. Corrupted after reads? What programs were used to read them? What is your RACF reports telling about any successful accesses from both SysPlexes? If you got only Read access reports, then it is time for a PMR. > And yes the PDSE's along with all datasets are shared between both sysplexes > as all dasd is shared. Not ideal but it is what it is so I was looking for a > solution. Ok, let us see to help you. Must they be shared? Can you not keep two copies which are NOT shared? Say one PDSE in one SysPlex and keeping another in another SysPlex while using something to maintain identical copies? Another question - are ALL the LPARS on the same z/OS level? I'm asking because you can do versioning of the members from z/OS v2.1? Perhaps you could ensure there are timeslots for each SysPlex to allow reads/updates? Say Morning is allowable for Plex 1 and Plex 2 in midday? Or something like that. I have for example a REXX program which is looking for the 'right' time and then do actions based on time of day. You could write it to do things on certain times in certain LPARS. Someone said CA-MIM could be used, but I'm not sure. I know above are straws, but anything including RACF should be examinated to prevent PDSE damages in the future. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd
Arguably there is no such thing as a "read only data set". It must've got written to (at least) once (or be empty). Maybe CURRENTLY it's not being written to. But when it was the damage could've occurred. And if this is woolly thinking it's OK: I'm on vacation, kinda sorta. :-) Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator, Worldwide Cloud & Systems Performance, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker From: Elardus Engelbrecht To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 01/04/2016 15:24 Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) wrote: >An unintentional repeat. It is all right. It seemed you got caught in this bad situation. >The original PDSE issue was a PDSE was being read (no updates) on both sysplexes and it became corrupted. I was asked about PDSE protection for a new project and that prompted this thread. Corrupted after reads? What programs were used to read them? What is your RACF reports telling about any successful accesses from both SysPlexes? If you got only Read access reports, then it is time for a PMR. > And yes the PDSE's along with all datasets are shared between both sysplexes as all dasd is shared. Not ideal but it is what it is so I was looking for a solution. Ok, let us see to help you. Must they be shared? Can you not keep two copies which are NOT shared? Say one PDSE in one SysPlex and keeping another in another SysPlex while using something to maintain identical copies? Another question - are ALL the LPARS on the same z/OS level? I'm asking because you can do versioning of the members from z/OS v2.1? Perhaps you could ensure there are timeslots for each SysPlex to allow reads/updates? Say Morning is allowable for Plex 1 and Plex 2 in midday? Or something like that. I have for example a REXX program which is looking for the 'right' time and then do actions based on time of day. You could write it to do things on certain times in certain LPARS. Someone said CA-MIM could be used, but I'm not sure. I know above are straws, but anything including RACF should be examinated to prevent PDSE damages in the future. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd
Martin must be correct as a file only being read should not become corrupted. Just identifying who the culprit is/was impossible. Martin - enjoy your vacation -- Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) Mainframe Systems Programmer Enterprise Infrastructure Support (Station 200) (005OP6.3.10) VA OI&T Service Delivery & Engineering -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Martin Packer Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 9:40 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd Arguably there is no such thing as a "read only data set". It must've got written to (at least) once (or be empty). Maybe CURRENTLY it's not being written to. But when it was the damage could've occurred. And if this is woolly thinking it's OK: I'm on vacation, kinda sorta. :-) Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator, Worldwide Cloud & Systems Performance, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker From: Elardus Engelbrecht To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 01/04/2016 15:24 Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) wrote: >An unintentional repeat. It is all right. It seemed you got caught in this bad situation. >The original PDSE issue was a PDSE was being read (no updates) on both sysplexes and it became corrupted. I was asked about PDSE protection for a new project and that prompted this thread. Corrupted after reads? What programs were used to read them? What is your RACF reports telling about any successful accesses from both SysPlexes? If you got only Read access reports, then it is time for a PMR. > And yes the PDSE's along with all datasets are shared between both sysplexes as all dasd is shared. Not ideal but it is what it is so I was looking for a solution. Ok, let us see to help you. Must they be shared? Can you not keep two copies which are NOT shared? Say one PDSE in one SysPlex and keeping another in another SysPlex while using something to maintain identical copies? Another question - are ALL the LPARS on the same z/OS level? I'm asking because you can do versioning of the members from z/OS v2.1? Perhaps you could ensure there are timeslots for each SysPlex to allow reads/updates? Say Morning is allowable for Plex 1 and Plex 2 in midday? Or something like that. I have for example a REXX program which is looking for the 'right' time and then do actions based on time of day. You could write it to do things on certain times in certain LPARS. Someone said CA-MIM could be used, but I'm not sure. I know above are straws, but anything including RACF should be examinated to prevent PDSE damages in the future. Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd
W dniu 2016-04-01 o 16:00, Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) pisze: An unintentional repeat. And yes the PDSE's along with all datasets are shared between both sysplexes as all dasd is shared. Not ideal but it is what it is so I was looking for a solution. The ONLY solution is STOP SHARING all datasets across sysplexes. There are some ways to skin the cat: 1. Just stop sharing disks. Provide alternative methods to data exchange between sysplexes. 2. Consolidate sysplexes into single sysplex. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland --- Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd
W dniu 2016-04-01 o 16:09, Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) pisze: I was hoping there was a way for GRS to span multiple sysplexes - apparently it can't - but that is a question worth asking. It is possible to have GRS complex that span sysplexes, but: 1. It is VERY unrecommended for some importnat reasons. 2. IT WON'T HELP WITH PDSE SHARING. PDSE use XCF signaling for communication, so GRS cannot help here. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland --- Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd
Thank you - excellent reasons. Y'all have a great 4/1 -- Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) Mainframe Systems Programmer Enterprise Infrastructure Support (Station 200) (005OP6.3.10) VA OI&T Service Delivery & Engineering -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of R.S. Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 9:50 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd W dniu 2016-04-01 o 16:09, Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) pisze: > I was hoping there was a way for GRS to span multiple sysplexes - apparently > it can't - but that is a question worth asking. It is possible to have GRS complex that span sysplexes, but: 1. It is VERY unrecommended for some importnat reasons. 2. IT WON'T HELP WITH PDSE SHARING. PDSE use XCF signaling for communication, so GRS cannot help here. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland --- Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2016 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.955.696 złotych. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd
On 4/1/2016 7:00 AM, Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) wrote: An unintentional repeat. And yes the PDSE's along with all datasets are shared between both sysplexes as all dasd is shared. Not ideal but it is what it is so I was looking for a solution. PDSE sharing depends on sysplex services, and not just for serialization. Even if you could get your GRS serialization to work across all four LPARs, your PDSE breakage will continue. ijs... -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd
I only shared a minimum set of volumes. Vary offline commands in COMMNDxx. Very few, if any PDS/E on these volumes and all are read-only after creation. This COBOL-5 requirement for a PDS/E load library will complicate my transfers from development to test and production as that is currently a shared library which is only written from one lpar. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 7:43 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with > shared dasd > > Martin must be correct as a file only being read should not become > corrupted. Just identifying who the culprit is/was impossible. > > Martin - enjoy your vacation > > > -- > Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) > Mainframe Systems Programmer > Enterprise Infrastructure Support (Station 200) (005OP6.3.10) VA OI&T > Service Delivery & Engineering > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Martin Packer > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 9:40 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with > shared dasd > > Arguably there is no such thing as a "read only data set". It must've got > written to (at least) once (or be empty). Maybe CURRENTLY it's not being > written to. But when it was the damage could've occurred. > > And if this is woolly thinking it's OK: I'm on vacation, kinda sorta. :-) > > Cheers, Martin > > Martin Packer, > zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator, Worldwide Cloud & Systems > Performance, IBM > > +44-7802-245-584 > > email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com > > Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker > Blog: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- > 3A__www.ibm.com_developerworks_mydeveloperworks_blogs_MartinPack > er&d=CwIFAg&c=C3yme8gMkxg_ihJNXS06ZyWk4EJm8LdrrvxQb- > Je7sw&r=u9g8rUevBoyCPAdo5sWE9w&m=0zJxLpCylE8YKC- > dfUkdX8jcFoyY9eqFDj4n0kMOwZ4&s=amaidrq_FaFffu97J6yRrn8Irhp3B3_Px > wxQ-vRutZs&e= > > > > From: Elardus Engelbrecht > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Date: 01/04/2016 15:24 > Subject:Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes > with shared dasd > Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > > > Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) wrote: > > >An unintentional repeat. > > It is all right. It seemed you got caught in this bad situation. > > > >The original PDSE issue was a PDSE was being read (no updates) on both > sysplexes and it became corrupted. I was asked about PDSE protection for a > new project and that prompted this thread. > > Corrupted after reads? What programs were used to read them? What is > your RACF reports telling about any successful accesses from both > SysPlexes? If you got only Read access reports, then it is time for a PMR. > > > > And yes the PDSE's along with all datasets are shared between both > sysplexes as all dasd is shared. Not ideal but it is what it is so I was > looking for > a solution. > > Ok, let us see to help you. Must they be shared? Can you not keep two > copies which are NOT shared? Say one PDSE in one SysPlex and keeping > another in another SysPlex while using something to maintain identical > copies? > > Another question - are ALL the LPARS on the same z/OS level? I'm asking > because you can do versioning of the members from z/OS v2.1? > > Perhaps you could ensure there are timeslots for each SysPlex to allow > reads/updates? Say Morning is allowable for Plex 1 and Plex 2 in midday? > Or something like that. > > I have for example a REXX program which is looking for the 'right' time and > then do actions based on time of day. You could write it to do things on > certain times in certain LPARS. > > Someone said CA-MIM could be used, but I'm not sure. > > I know above are straws, but anything including RACF should be examinated > to prevent PDSE damages in the future. > > Groete / Greetings > Elardus Engelbrecht > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to > lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > Unless stated otherwise above: > IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number > 741598. > Registered office: PO Box 41, North Har
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd
On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Gibney, David Allen wrote: > I only shared a minimum set of volumes. Vary offline commands in COMMNDxx. > Very few, if any PDS/E on these volumes and all are read-only after > creation. > > This COBOL-5 requirement for a PDS/E load library will complicate my > transfers from development to test and production as that is currently a > shared library which is only written from one lpar. > > Have you considered: system1:pdse1 -> (iebcopy) -> shared sequential -> system2:pdse2 ? -- How many surrealists does it take to screw in a lightbulb? One to hold the giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools. Maranatha! <>< John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd
I probably will/would do something like this. But, I doubt we'll ever get to COBOL 5 anyway. Still using Enterprise 3.1.0 > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > On Behalf Of John McKown > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 1:48 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with > shared dasd > > On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Gibney, David Allen > wrote: > > > I only shared a minimum set of volumes. Vary offline commands in > COMMNDxx. > > Very few, if any PDS/E on these volumes and all are read-only after > > creation. > > > > This COBOL-5 requirement for a PDS/E load library will complicate my > > transfers from development to test and production as that is currently > > a shared library which is only written from one lpar. > > > > > Have you considered: system1:pdse1 -> (iebcopy) -> shared sequential -> > system2:pdse2 ? > > > > -- > How many surrealists does it take to screw in a lightbulb? One to hold the > giraffe and one to fill the bathtub with brightly colored power tools. > > Maranatha! <>< > John McKown > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to > lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd
Thank you - I've come to the conclusion that we should be in a single sysplex so we have grs protecting every device. Now the discussion begins :-) -- Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) Mainframe Systems Programmer Enterprise Infrastructure Support (Station 200) (005OP6.3.10) VA OI&T Service Delivery & Engineering -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Joseph W Gentile Sent: Monday, April 04, 2016 12:41 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd Hello Lionel, Regarding your OP, GRS ENQs are generally obtained at the GRS complex level, by various operating system programs and other applications that do I/O. GRS only knows about its own complex, not another GRS complex. In your description it sounds like you have two GRS complexes one for prod and one for test. The GRS complex usually matches the Sysplex unless you are using GRS Ring with GRS managed CTCs. The two complexes do not communicate ENQs between one another. If the two complexes collide on the same resource, data corruption can occur. Some resources can be safely shared outside the complex by using RESERVE. You can code the RNLs to exclude a resource from global processing and thus propagate the HW RESERVE. But not all applications doing I/O use RESERVE so this method is not sufficient protection, unless you know the resource is protected by RESERVE from product documentation. A CATALOG is one of those resources you can serialize with RESERVE and here is an info APAR that explains how to code your RNLs for that: http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=isg1II14297. Note that only protects the catalog from corruption and not the datasets themselves. RESERVE has its own risks, particularly a higher chance for contention, because only one system can own the RESERVE (which locks the whole volume) at a time. -Joe Joe Gentile z/OS GRS Lead jwgen...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd
I'm working on setting up a CTC-only Basic Sysplex (not Parallel, no-CF's). From what I read, basic plexes don't scale well, as ENQs have to go around to each system, which may be why your IBM guy advised against it. Ken This is from z/OS 1.13 DFSMS Using data Sets SC26-7410-11 https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_1.13.0/com.ibm.zos.r13.idad400/d4322.htm%23d4322 Choosing Volumes for PDSEs in a Sysplex PDSEs are designed to be shared within a sysplex. When choosing volumes for PDSEs in a sysplex, be sure to follow these rules: - The volume serials for volumes that contain PDSEs must be unique within a sysplex. - A volume that contains PDSEs must not be open from more than one GRS complex at a time. - If PDSE extended sharing is active, a volume that contains a PDSE cannot be accessed from more than one sysplex at a time. In this context, a sysplex is all systems that can connect in a single XCF group, and a GRS complex is all the systems in a GRS configuration. A sysplex never spans more than one GRS complex. Note: for extended sharing, a PDSE can only be shared by the members of a GRS complex that are also members of the same sysplex. For example: in a six-system GRS complex, with four of the systems within the sysplex and two which are not, PDSEs can have extended sharing between the four members of the sysplex, but not the other two, non-sysplex systems. See z/OS MVS Planning: Global Resource Serialization <https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_1.13.0/com.ibm.zos.r13.ieag400/iea2g4a1.htm?lang=en-us> for more information about the configurations that make up a GRS complex. If these volume assignment rules are not followed for PDSEs in a sysplex, data set accessibility or integrity may be impacted. On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) wrote: > Thank you - I've come to the conclusion that we should be in a single > sysplex so we have grs protecting every device. Now the discussion begins > :-) > > > -- > Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) > Mainframe Systems Programmer > Enterprise Infrastructure Support (Station 200) (005OP6.3.10) > VA OI&T Service Delivery & Engineering > > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Joseph W Gentile > Sent: Monday, April 04, 2016 12:41 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared > dasd > > Hello Lionel, > > Regarding your OP, GRS ENQs are generally obtained at the GRS complex > level, by various operating system programs and other applications that do > I/O. GRS only knows about its own complex, not another GRS complex. In your > description it sounds like you have two GRS complexes one for prod and one > for test. The GRS complex usually matches the Sysplex unless you are using > GRS Ring with GRS managed CTCs. The two complexes do not communicate ENQs > between one another. If the two complexes collide on the same resource, > data corruption can occur. Some resources can be safely shared outside the > complex by using RESERVE. You can code the RNLs to exclude a resource from > global processing and thus propagate the HW RESERVE. But not all > applications doing I/O use RESERVE so this method is not sufficient > protection, unless you know the resource is protected by RESERVE from > product documentation. A CATALOG is one of those resources you can > serialize with RESERVE and here is an info APAR that explains how to code > your RNLs for that: > http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=isg1II14297. Note that only > protects the catalog from corruption and not the datasets themselves. > RESERVE has its own risks, particularly a higher chance for contention, > because only one system can own the RESERVE (which locks the whole volume) > at a time. > > -Joe > > Joe Gentile > z/OS GRS Lead > jwgen...@us.ibm.com > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd
I am not sure you know you also have a serious alternative: do not share the DASD between the sysplexes, but keep the needed datasets (also PDSE's) in sync by synchronizing them periodically. We to this. Once a day, a number of PDSs, PDSE's and other datasets are unloaded at sysplex1, FTPed to Sysplex2 and loaded there. You can do this at your desired frequency. If this solves your problem, it will be much less work than to merge the 2 sysplexes into 1. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) Sent: 04 April, 2016 19:46 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd Thank you - I've come to the conclusion that we should be in a single sysplex so we have grs protecting every device. Now the discussion begins :-) -- Lionel B. Dyck (Contractor) Mainframe Systems Programmer Enterprise Infrastructure Support (Station 200) (005OP6.3.10) VA OI&T Service Delivery & Engineering -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Joseph W Gentile Sent: Monday, April 04, 2016 12:41 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd Hello Lionel, Regarding your OP, GRS ENQs are generally obtained at the GRS complex level, by various operating system programs and other applications that do I/O. GRS only knows about its own complex, not another GRS complex. In your description it sounds like you have two GRS complexes one for prod and one for test. The GRS complex usually matches the Sysplex unless you are using GRS Ring with GRS managed CTCs. The two complexes do not communicate ENQs between one another. If the two complexes collide on the same resource, data corruption can occur. Some resources can be safely shared outside the complex by using RESERVE. You can code the RNLs to exclude a resource from global processing and thus propagate the HW RESERVE. But not all applications doing I/O use RESERVE so this method is not sufficient protection, unless you know the resource is protected by RESERVE from product documentation. A CATALOG is one of those resources you can serialize with RESERVE and here is an info APAR that explains how to code your RNLs for that: http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=isg1II14297. Note that only protects the catalog from corruption and not the datasets themselves. RESERVE has its own risks, particularly a higher chance for contention, because only one system can own the RESERVE (which locks the whole volume) at a time. -Joe Joe Gentile z/OS GRS Lead jwgen...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Advice needed - GRS across 2 sysplexes with shared dasd
Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) wrote: >Thank you - I've come to the conclusion that we should be in a single sysplex >so we have grs protecting every device. Ok. Abadon grey hairs! ;-) Just have your Prod ready and then add one LPAR at a stage from the test Plex. You could perhaps prepare your HSM, SMS, JES2, RACF etc. *before* you move these LPARS over to your single SysPlex. >Now the discussion begins :-) Now, I'm asking, thinking outside the box - Question - Do you NEED those PDSE residing in their place in their own SysPlex? Could other type of datasets work? Or move the contents into a single database system or something? Granted, I don't know (or missed the reason) for WHAT do you want the PDSE, perhaps it is something about COBOL? Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN