Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
On Sun, 2 Dec 2018 19:20:07 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >I believe that he's using a different meaning of client, e.g., customer. > >IND$FILE, SFTP and WSA are all easier to use for people who are not at home >with the Eunix utilities. > My favorite approach has been NFS. It puts my z/OS data on my desktop and my desktop data on z/OS. No manifest "transfer"; it's just there. I can use z/OS facilities on desktop files and desktop facilities on z/OS files -- whatever works best. If either system did everything, I wouldn't need the other. And, I don't need to deal with Windows. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
About all I can add is, I started to work with IND$FILE in 1987. And the associated fun things, like LU6.2 connections to PS/2's, PC/3270 and so on. I remember calling it Independent File Transfer. At the time it was cool, but so was Token Ring. It was fine until someone wanted a big file, and didn't understand anything like data compression, or how little storage they had their PS/2, even if they got the file, they couldn't open it. It was slow, but honestly, unless you had something figured out a way to break file transfer into multiple streams everything was slow, unless it was worth it to make it faster. Dialup lasted far longer than I ever thought it would. "Oh bye, bye, thirty-seven-O-five, closed the valve to chiller, but the chiller was dry..." <--- Yes I know, 3704/3705 air cooled, but nothing else worked. "Why can't I send a VSAM or BDAM file on IND$FILE?""Why can't I send character and non-character data mixed?" "You can, but it's not 'magic' on both ends." Got to know your data. "I got my file and it's all encrypted, what's wrong?" "You might want to check the ASCII/TEXT box." Still questions today on the mainframe BLKSIZE, or why a PDS won't work, on upload and the 'encrypted' data in the end file in any place it ends up. Mark -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2018 1:20 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? I believe that he's using a different meaning of client, e.g., customer. IND$FILE, SFTP and WSA are all easier to use for people who are not at home with the Eunix utilities. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 5:47 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 12:13:05 -0800, Tom Brennan wrote: > >> and employees use it to circumvent policies prohibiting data transfer. > >Or maybe just to avoid delays in getting what an auditor might call >"proper" access. For example, I've used IND$FILE to transfer an entire >dumped/xmited 3390 volume to a client site, > Don't *you* need to be the client to control IND$FILE? (I'd say, "instructed a client to use IND$FILE to transfer from my site.") >... because getting sftp port >access (and the associated big ZFS allocated and mounted) would have >probably taken weeks. > Understood about port access. But no need for "big ZFS". once you have sftp you have ssh, so: cp -B "//'ENTIRE.XMITED.VOLUME'" /dev/fd/1" | ssh client.site "cp -B /dev/fd/0 '//''client.site.volume'''" (gasp!) Might even use OUTDD option of TRANSMIT to eliminate one more large data set. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Disclaimer This email may contain privileged and/or confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing or using any of the information contained in the transmission. If you received this communication in error, please contact the sender (“Company”) immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, including all electronic and hard copies. This communication may contain nonpublic personal information about consumers which is subject to restrictions under the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act and the Sarbanes-Oxley Act. You may not directly or indirectly reuse or disclose such nonpublic personal information for any purpose other than to provide the services for which you are receiving the information. There are risks associated with the use of electronic transmission. The sender of this information does not control the method of transmittal or any service providers and the sender assumes no duty, liability, or obligation for the security, receipt, or any third party interception of this transmission. The Company reserves the right to amend statements made herein in the event of a mistake. Unless expressly stated herein to the contrary, only agreements
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
I believe that he's using a different meaning of client, e.g., customer. IND$FILE, SFTP and WSA are all easier to use for people who are not at home with the Eunix utilities. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 5:47 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 12:13:05 -0800, Tom Brennan wrote: > >> and employees use it to circumvent policies prohibiting data transfer. > >Or maybe just to avoid delays in getting what an auditor might call >"proper" access. For example, I've used IND$FILE to transfer an entire >dumped/xmited 3390 volume to a client site, > Don't *you* need to be the client to control IND$FILE? (I'd say, "instructed a client to use IND$FILE to transfer from my site.") >... because getting sftp port >access (and the associated big ZFS allocated and mounted) would have >probably taken weeks. > Understood about port access. But no need for "big ZFS". once you have sftp you have ssh, so: cp -B "//'ENTIRE.XMITED.VOLUME'" /dev/fd/1" | ssh client.site "cp -B /dev/fd/0 '//''client.site.volume'''" (gasp!) Might even use OUTDD option of TRANSMIT to eliminate one more large data set. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
Of course it's a file transfer tool. I'd question the word "spoof"; it uses the 3270 data stream, but it doesn't simulate data entry. Nor is windows the only PC operating system supported. The reason that it's so slow has nothing to do with keyboard entry, which it doesn't simulate. I rarely used IND$FILE when I had FTP or WSA available. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Jesse 1 Robinson Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2018 12:13 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? I didn't notice anyone asking (or answering preemptively) the question of what IND$FILE is or how it works. First off, it is not a 'file transfer tool' like FTP or SFTP. It is a program that spoofs 3270 terminal data entry to up or download data. There's a component on mainframe and another on Windows. The reason it's so slow is that it simulates keyboard entry. Not elegant but competent. Not ideal for large files, but here's how I made peace with it long ago. IND$FILE can completely process a modest file while I'm still trying to get FTP syntax right. For the third time. It's worth my money. . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 323-715-0595 Mobile 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW robin...@sce.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Harminc Sent: Friday, November 30, 2018 2:07 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: (External):Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 14:37, Paul Gilmartin < 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > Does IBM support any such clients nowadays? I have an old (2006) version of Pcom "Workstation Program Version 5.9 for Windows" that seems to have a built-in client. And the Help->About has a link to the "support home page" at https://secure-web.cisco.com/1N22jYV-kChXngo58ROmM_Q-qapgSwBbJu1BgZke-m5_yzwqnKzMNp__od-j243qJAFa5D2e1P8RqXWGZV7PKZs6o9dQFaBp5Gwwjh5Q5cUTloGBG4j97hxkV2Zpq0O1yYTCSsA1k7vYjsDykABBnDSGjROGG4hxdYTLZKINHCSDmeqMVHrRy-EVZAJM_fzehrgO6t4p-jcoWnWSC1vW3PsXbdUUY4vFwL0t4SS1Xal892_c4W4hA4z7HecA1qi-hBXXnYryveiyBTf7DpXiJyeNgMoJL1ZdTohZePtKlU93W6pRIt5XD04BAAjIB2G6kCxto4bGtx29kV4D5vQQNekSCU4UMbwPrZbXVfNRidzwaI8p1SCeGYcyq-Ao4XHFYaQyYVNHVI1BQFCIV3djEiEh5RejGZPigC9EJvqvcUk14DIBVLfTh8IcN-k25m_Bc/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ibm.com%2Fus-en%2Fmarketplace%2Fpersonal-communications which offers a free 90-day trial, so at least some version appears to still be supported. PC 3270? Are all supported clients from ISVs? Do ISV's reverse-engineer > the interface, > or are interface specs available to them, perhaps by license, subject > to NDA? > I've never seen any interface specs from IBM, except the obviously unofficial file "SS-HCS12-1372-00.pdf" that was mentioned on this list in 2015. I think the most well known reverse engineer is Mike Rayborn of CBT607 fame, but it has doubtless been done independently by several people. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
There are other reasons to install WSA. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2018 6:52 PM To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 18:08:26 -0500, Don Leahy wrote: >Why all the love for IND$FILE? ISPF's workstation agent (WSA) is a far >superior solution to the problem of sending files between your work station >and the mainframe. Easy to automate (see the ISPF FILEXFER service) and is >included with ISPF at no additional cost. > Linux? MacOS? Solaris? ... ? 1. FTP (requires workstation FTP server). o Download using FTP. ISPF invokes the host FTP client to connect with the FTP server on your workstation and transfer the WSA installation program. ... Well, gee. If I already have FTP to my workstation, why do I need to install something else to transfer files? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 19:12:06 -0500, Don Leahy wrote: >So what? You can also download it using IND$FILE. That was the last time >I used IND$FILE. > >On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 6:52 PM Paul Gilmartin wrote: > >> Linux? >> MacOS? >> Solaris? >> ... ? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
So what? You can also download it using IND$FILE. That was the last time I used IND$FILE. I prefer WSA because it is very easy to automate using Rexx. On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 6:52 PM Paul Gilmartin < 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 18:08:26 -0500, Don Leahy wrote: > > >Why all the love for IND$FILE? ISPF's workstation agent (WSA) is a far > >superior solution to the problem of sending files between your work > station > >and the mainframe. Easy to automate (see the ISPF FILEXFER service) and > is > >included with ISPF at no additional cost. > > > Linux? > MacOS? > Solaris? > ... ? > > 1. FTP (requires workstation FTP server). > o Download using FTP. ISPF invokes the host FTP client to connect with the > FTP server > on your workstation and transfer the WSA installation program. > ... > Well, gee. If I already have FTP to my workstation, why do I need to > install > something else to transfer files? > > -- gil > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 18:08:26 -0500, Don Leahy wrote: >Why all the love for IND$FILE? ISPF's workstation agent (WSA) is a far >superior solution to the problem of sending files between your work station >and the mainframe. Easy to automate (see the ISPF FILEXFER service) and is >included with ISPF at no additional cost. > Linux? MacOS? Solaris? ... ? 1. FTP (requires workstation FTP server). o Download using FTP. ISPF invokes the host FTP client to connect with the FTP server on your workstation and transfer the WSA installation program. ... Well, gee. If I already have FTP to my workstation, why do I need to install something else to transfer files? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
Why all the love for IND$FILE? ISPF's workstation agent (WSA) is a far superior solution to the problem of sending files between your work station and the mainframe. Easy to automate (see the ISPF FILEXFER service) and is included with ISPF at no additional cost. On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 3:37 PM Paul Gilmartin < 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 20:46:19 +, Robert Prins wrote: > > >On 2018-11-30 12:33, John Eells wrote: > >> > >> IND$FILE, as part of z/OS, remains supported. As far as I know, > support for it > >> has never lapsed (certainly not since its inclusion into OS/390). > > > >If it's supported, then would you be willing to make a small change to > it, to > >use SDB, rather than whatever hardcoded blocksize it's using now. FWIW, I > zapped > >it, and I believe there there is a list of locations to zap for various > (older) > >versions around. > > > One for each version, or several for each? If the latter, I hope it's > an EQU where a one-line change suffices. > > Sounds like an RFE. > > Or has IBM a blanket policy of replacing hardcoded blocksize with SDB? > > IIRC, IBM changed IEBGENER to rely on SDB, then needed to backtrack > because customers depended on the prior behavior. > > And IBM's changing Rexx EXECIO to rely on SDB broke some of my EXECs > because SDB chose an invalid blocksize in some cases where the Rexx > runtime had chosen a valid one. SR suggested an existing PTF, intended > for JES, that solved my problem. But then cautioned, "That PTF causes > Rexx to behave contrary to specification, and the adverse behavior might > return if a customer reported a problem. You should always specify > BLKSIZE." > > -- gil > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 20:46:19 +, Robert Prins wrote: >On 2018-11-30 12:33, John Eells wrote: >> >> IND$FILE, as part of z/OS, remains supported. As far as I know, support for >> it >> has never lapsed (certainly not since its inclusion into OS/390). > >If it's supported, then would you be willing to make a small change to it, to >use SDB, rather than whatever hardcoded blocksize it's using now. FWIW, I >zapped >it, and I believe there there is a list of locations to zap for various (older) >versions around. > One for each version, or several for each? If the latter, I hope it's an EQU where a one-line change suffices. Sounds like an RFE. Or has IBM a blanket policy of replacing hardcoded blocksize with SDB? IIRC, IBM changed IEBGENER to rely on SDB, then needed to backtrack because customers depended on the prior behavior. And IBM's changing Rexx EXECIO to rely on SDB broke some of my EXECs because SDB chose an invalid blocksize in some cases where the Rexx runtime had chosen a valid one. SR suggested an existing PTF, intended for JES, that solved my problem. But then cautioned, "That PTF causes Rexx to behave contrary to specification, and the adverse behavior might return if a customer reported a problem. You should always specify BLKSIZE." -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
On 2018-11-30 12:33, John Eells wrote: Seymour J Metz wrote: I believe that IND$FILE is included in your z/OS license. I also believe that it is long out of support and less efficient than, e.g., SFTP (yes, FTP is considered insecure these days.) IND$FILE, as part of z/OS, remains supported. As far as I know, support for it has never lapsed (certainly not since its inclusion into OS/390). If it's supported, then would you be willing to make a small change to it, to use SDB, rather than whatever hardcoded blocksize it's using now. FWIW, I zapped it, and I believe there there is a list of locations to zap for various (older) versions around. Robert -- Robert AH Prins robert(a)prino(d)org -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
On 2018-11-29 18:39, Seymour J Metz wrote: > OCO was a gradual infestation. DF/DS, DF/EF (15 % discount on plasma), > MVS/SE, MVS/SP and, as I recall, DFP, preceded it, and the was still > microfiche for, e.g., TSO/E, long after OCO had started. OCO was a lot more gradual than the speed IBM drove. I wonder if IBM realized that. Once upon a time we had 7171's for dial up 3270 sessions. And TSO users would get stuck. Their session would be left so they couldn't log back on and they couldn't reconnect. The operators couldn't cancel the left over session, though the system did say "cancel command accepted". A dump of the hung TSO session showed the initiator task RB waiting on the cancel ECB for the TSO session. This RB wasn't running (even if the cancel ECB was posted) because it wasn't the topmost RB on the initiator tasks TCB RB chain. The topmost RB was an IRB from VTAM waiting for some VTAM event so I opened a problem with IBM VTAM. VTAM looked at several dumps of this case but VTAM wanted traces of a failing case -- Yes, trace all 7171's on a production system for something which happened possibly several times a week. And the problem wasn't know about until until someone tried to logon which could be any amount of time after the problem hit. No. They also couldn't understand why the user wasn't cancelable. Locally we eventually figured out that varying the LU for the TSO session inactive (possibly requiring force) would cause the waiting VTAM request complete follwed by the initator canceling the user (if a cancel command had been issued). This wasn't really a good solution as it took operator intervention and/or system programming staff intervention and also our local policy was to avoid "force" unless it was to avoid an IPL. The only useful information from VTAM was that the hang was a result of an incomplete reconnect where the old TSO address space had committed to connect to a specific inbound session which had likely dropped. After months of nothing useful from VTAM, I looked deeper. I didn't need to "fix", just stop the user from being locked out. The VTAM module was OCO. Well, not so great. However, downstairs we had old microfiche. How old? Tww versions back. Ah, a bit of looking at the fiche and disassembly of the current module and things become clear. I can see that this isn't the first time VTAM has had a hang in this module. There are multiple VTAM calls with later added STIMER timeouts around them. But no timeout on the one I'm stuck on (of course). A quick zap to the module to add a STIMER around the VTAM call with the STIMER exit just issuing ABEND "fixed" the problem. The non-reconnected address space terminates and the user can re-logon without any operator intervention. Just a disasm wouldn't have helped as much as having the old fiche which told what the module was doing. So OCO had an effect more on new sites, and on IBM as they got less help from the field. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
On 11/30/2018 9:13 PM, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote: The reason it's so slow is that it simulates keyboard entry. Not elegant but competent. Not ideal for large files, but here's how I made peace with it long ago. IND$FILE protocol hasn't simulated true keyboard entry for a long, Long, LONG time. Any terminal 'ca 1980s supporting EDS (extended data stream) orders will support structured fields. Competent IND$FILE clients *should* use structured fields to send or receive the data rather than the old way, which relied on the character representation of the data being passed through a terminal buffer. Yikes! Even so, as you say it's slow compared to TCP/IP transfers because it is a half-duplex protocol, there is no coat-tailing or Nagle algorithm, the buffer sizes are not particularly large, and TGET/TPUT and similar 3270 brethren were never designed for speed. -- Phoenix Software International Edward E. Jaffe 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise received this email message in error, any use, dissemination, distribution, review, storage or copying of this e-mail message and the information contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of this email message and do not otherwise utilize or retain this email message or any or all of the information contained therein. Although this email message and any attachments or appended messages are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from its opening or use. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
I didn't notice anyone asking (or answering preemptively) the question of what IND$FILE is or how it works. First off, it is not a 'file transfer tool' like FTP or SFTP. It is a program that spoofs 3270 terminal data entry to up or download data. There's a component on mainframe and another on Windows. The reason it's so slow is that it simulates keyboard entry. Not elegant but competent. Not ideal for large files, but here's how I made peace with it long ago. IND$FILE can completely process a modest file while I'm still trying to get FTP syntax right. For the third time. It's worth my money. . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 323-715-0595 Mobile 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW robin...@sce.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Harminc Sent: Friday, November 30, 2018 2:07 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: (External):Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 14:37, Paul Gilmartin < 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > Does IBM support any such clients nowadays? I have an old (2006) version of Pcom "Workstation Program Version 5.9 for Windows" that seems to have a built-in client. And the Help->About has a link to the "support home page" at https://www.ibm.com/us-en/marketplace/personal-communications which offers a free 90-day trial, so at least some version appears to still be supported. PC 3270? Are all supported clients from ISVs? Do ISV's reverse-engineer > the interface, > or are interface specs available to them, perhaps by license, subject > to NDA? > I've never seen any interface specs from IBM, except the obviously unofficial file "SS-HCS12-1372-00.pdf" that was mentioned on this list in 2015. I think the most well known reverse engineer is Mike Rayborn of CBT607 fame, but it has doubtless been done independently by several people. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 14:37, Paul Gilmartin < 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > Does IBM support any such clients nowadays? I have an old (2006) version of Pcom "Workstation Program Version 5.9 for Windows" that seems to have a built-in client. And the Help->About has a link to the "support home page" at https://www.ibm.com/us-en/marketplace/personal-communications which offers a free 90-day trial, so at least some version appears to still be supported. PC 3270? Are all supported clients from ISVs? Do ISV's reverse-engineer > the interface, > or are interface specs available to them, perhaps by license, subject to > NDA? > I've never seen any interface specs from IBM, except the obviously unofficial file "SS-HCS12-1372-00.pdf" that was mentioned on this list in 2015. I think the most well known reverse engineer is Mike Rayborn of CBT607 fame, but it has doubtless been done independently by several people. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 15:17:22 +0800, Timothy Sipples wrote: > >IBM Program Number 5665-311, 3270 PC File Transfer Program for TSO, is >still marketed and supported as a standalone product (as I write this). >However, starting with z/OS 2.1, it is included in the z/OS base operating >system license. Refer to IBM Announcement Letter 213-292 for confirmation. > Which doesn't answer the (idly curious) question, "What component has prefix IND?" >>I also believe that it is long out of support... > >No, it's still IBM supported. On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 21:58:01 +, Edward Finnell wrote: > >It's been marked 'Corporate Confidential' for years. > Is there any doc for this IBM supported product that's not marked 'Corporate Confidential' It's ironic if all doc for a supported product is confidential. Unless it's non-GUPI, intended only for use with supported clients? Does IBM support any such clients nowadays? PC 3270? Are all supported clients from ISVs? Do ISV's reverse-engineer the interface, or are interface specs available to them, perhaps by license, subject to NDA? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
The text in the section from which the eye-catcher below was extracted has certainly not been updated since 1988. But the last of the six PTFs (UR43604) for this FMID (HFX1112) was made available 2 June 1995. Mike Schwab wrote: It hasn't been updated since 1988. On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 7:00 AM Elardus Engelbrecht wrote: John Eells wrote: IND$FILE, as part of z/OS, remains supported. As far as I know, support for it has never lapsed (certainly not since its inclusion into OS/390). Indeed and thanks for the clarification. I am somewhat perplexed by this discussion. This module is found in SYS1.CMDLIB and as of z/OS v2.2, I see this eye-catcher there (note the years in the copyright statement): "5665-311 COPYRIGHT IBM CORP 1983,1988; LICENCED MATERIAL - PROPERTY OF IBM, REFER TO COPYRIGHT INSTRUCTIONS FORM NO. G120-2083" -- John Eells IBM Poughkeepsie ee...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
Elardus Engelbrecht wrote: John Eells wrote: IND$FILE, as part of z/OS, remains supported. As far as I know, support for it has never lapsed (certainly not since its inclusion into OS/390). Indeed and thanks for the clarification. I am somewhat perplexed by this discussion. This module is found in SYS1.CMDLIB and as of z/OS v2.2, I see this eye-catcher there (note the years in the copyright statement): "5665-311 COPYRIGHT IBM CORP 1983,1988; LICENCED MATERIAL - PROPERTY OF IBM, REFER TO COPYRIGHT INSTRUCTIONS FORM NO. G120-2083" This is a very old FMID. Unless and until we repackage the FMID, all the module headers will remain the same, including the product number and copyright dates. Further, it would not surprise me to learn that the referenced form number has been history for decades now. If you find eye-catchers for, say, MICR/OCR (EMI2220) or TIOC (ETI1106, I think, or possibly ETI1102; I didn't look it up but I'm pretty sure it's one or the other) I would expect to see similarly dated information in them. -- John Eells IBM Poughkeepsie ee...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
It hasn't been updated since 1988. On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 7:00 AM Elardus Engelbrecht wrote: > > John Eells wrote: > > >IND$FILE, as part of z/OS, remains supported. As far as I know, support for > >it has never lapsed (certainly not since its inclusion into OS/390). > > Indeed and thanks for the clarification. I am somewhat perplexed by this > discussion. This module is found in SYS1.CMDLIB and as of z/OS v2.2, I see > this eye-catcher there (note the years in the copyright statement): > > "5665-311 COPYRIGHT IBM CORP 1983,1988; LICENCED MATERIAL - PROPERTY OF IBM, > REFER TO COPYRIGHT INSTRUCTIONS FORM NO. G120-2083" > > Groete / Greetings > Elardus Engelbrecht > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
John Eells wrote: >IND$FILE, as part of z/OS, remains supported. As far as I know, support for >it has never lapsed (certainly not since its inclusion into OS/390). Indeed and thanks for the clarification. I am somewhat perplexed by this discussion. This module is found in SYS1.CMDLIB and as of z/OS v2.2, I see this eye-catcher there (note the years in the copyright statement): "5665-311 COPYRIGHT IBM CORP 1983,1988; LICENCED MATERIAL - PROPERTY OF IBM, REFER TO COPYRIGHT INSTRUCTIONS FORM NO. G120-2083" Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
Seymour J Metz wrote: I believe that IND$FILE is included in your z/OS license. I also believe that it is long out of support and less efficient than, e.g., SFTP (yes, FTP is considered insecure these days.) IND$FILE, as part of z/OS, remains supported. As far as I know, support for it has never lapsed (certainly not since its inclusion into OS/390). -- John Eells IBM Poughkeepsie ee...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
On 11/29/2018 11:17 PM, Timothy Sipples wrote: As for efficiency, it depends on how you measure efficiency. IND$FILE can be extremely efficient all around when a user with a terminal emulator transfers a small file on an ad hoc basis. A terminal emulator may also have a setting for the IND$FILE buffer size, and as you might expect making that bigger makes things go a lot faster. Maybe something to look into if you have no choice but to use IND$FILE for larger files. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
Shmuel Metz wrote: >I believe that IND$FILE is included in your z/OS license. IBM Program Number 5665-311, 3270 PC File Transfer Program for TSO, is still marketed and supported as a standalone product (as I write this). However, starting with z/OS 2.1, it is included in the z/OS base operating system license. Refer to IBM Announcement Letter 213-292 for confirmation. >I also believe that it is long out of support... No, it's still IBM supported. >...and less efficient than, e.g., SFTP (yes, FTP is considered >insecure these days.) FTPS is another choice. As for efficiency, it depends on how you measure efficiency. IND$FILE can be extremely efficient all around when a user with a terminal emulator transfers a small file on an ad hoc basis. It can also be extremely efficient when somebody's manual, or REXX script, or macro contains precise, already functioning instructions on how to transfer a file in the correct, format preserving way, and you'd otherwise be tearing your hair out trying to make an alternative file transfer path work for no compelling enough reason. Timothy Sipples IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM Z & LinuxONE E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
On 11/29/2018 2:47 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: Don't *you* need to be the client to control IND$FILE? (I'd say, "instructed a client to use IND$FILE to transfer from my site.") Yes, IND$FILE performs the host side processing, and I had access to TSO via a terminal emulator on a company laptop. Understood about port access. But no need for "big ZFS". once you have sftp you have ssh, so: cp -B "//'ENTIRE.XMITED.VOLUME'" /dev/fd/1" | ssh client.site "cp -B /dev/fd/0 '//''client.site.volume'''" (gasp!) Might even use OUTDD option of TRANSMIT to eliminate one more large data set. Most of that is beyond my comprehension. The only way I know to use MVS sftp is with a USS file. That doesn't mean other methods don't exist - it's just all I know. In this case I had no root access to mount a new big ZFS. I probably could have thought of something, but then IND$FILE worked. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 12:13:05 -0800, Tom Brennan wrote: > >> and employees use it to circumvent policies prohibiting data transfer. > >Or maybe just to avoid delays in getting what an auditor might call >"proper" access. For example, I've used IND$FILE to transfer an entire >dumped/xmited 3390 volume to a client site, > Don't *you* need to be the client to control IND$FILE? (I'd say, "instructed a client to use IND$FILE to transfer from my site.") >... because getting sftp port >access (and the associated big ZFS allocated and mounted) would have >probably taken weeks. > Understood about port access. But no need for "big ZFS". once you have sftp you have ssh, so: cp -B "//'ENTIRE.XMITED.VOLUME'" /dev/fd/1" | ssh client.site "cp -B /dev/fd/0 '//''client.site.volume'''" (gasp!) Might even use OUTDD option of TRANSMIT to eliminate one more large data set. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
Hi Folks, Found this: http://gsf-soft.com/Documents/IND$FILE.html Thanks! BobL -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 1:26 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? [ EXTERNAL ] c ' auditors are unaware that many terminal emulators imbed IND$FILE' '' AFAIK, IND$FILE has always required a license. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mason.gmu.edu_-7Esmetz3&d=DwIFAw&c=huW-Z3760n7oNORvLCN2eBo-Ehm9Q_bNeNJaAMovBjQ&r=Qowhtqe2n9CP4j5cKgUfmAFB9ziwNIdru4NRZBXkzeA&m=IOg4G9PeM8qUbHsE6035huho-AA2riVixNTgiZ2Z-Ek&s=UTSpeGHEl--HHWkbbdsTZV8tZKFIdvnMbDv4VEocSPA&e= From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 2:52 PM To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:06:15 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >I believe that IND$FILE is included in your z/OS license. I also >believe that it is long out of support and less efficient than, e.g., >SFTP (yes, FTP is considered insecure these days.) > I suspect that some auditors are unaware that many terminal emulators imbed IND$FILE and employees use it to circumvent policies prohibiting data transfer. How secure is IND$FILE? Probably as secure for transport as the terminal protocol. But it still may transgress policies prohibiting data on personal devices (ref. HRC). On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 08:18:49 -0600, Tom Marchant wrote: > >Browsing the load module reveals this: > >5665-311 COPYRIGHT IBM CORP 1983,1988; LICENCED MATERIAL - PROPERTY OF >IBM, REFER TO COPYRIGHT INSTRUCTIONS FORM NO. G120-2083 > >1983 was several years after IBM went OCO. > >That, in turn was several years after they started to license and charge for >some software. > Might there have been earlier releases not so licen[cs]e encumbered and/or available in source? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. OppenheimerFunds may, at its sole discretion, monitor, review, retain and/or disclose the content of all email communications. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
c ' auditors are unaware that many terminal emulators imbed IND$FILE' '' AFAIK, IND$FILE has always required a license. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 2:52 PM To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:06:15 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >I believe that IND$FILE is included in your z/OS license. I also believe that >it is long out of support and less efficient than, e.g., SFTP (yes, FTP is >considered insecure these days.) > I suspect that some auditors are unaware that many terminal emulators imbed IND$FILE and employees use it to circumvent policies prohibiting data transfer. How secure is IND$FILE? Probably as secure for transport as the terminal protocol. But it still may transgress policies prohibiting data on personal devices (ref. HRC). On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 08:18:49 -0600, Tom Marchant wrote: > >Browsing the load module reveals this: > >5665-311 COPYRIGHT IBM CORP 1983,1988; LICENCED MATERIAL - PROPERTY OF IBM, >REFER TO COPYRIGHT INSTRUCTIONS FORM NO. G120-2083 > >1983 was several years after IBM went OCO. > >That, in turn was several years after they started to license and charge for >some software. > Might there have been earlier releases not so licen[cs]e encumbered and/or available in source? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
On 11/29/2018 11:52 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: I suspect that some auditors are unaware that many terminal emulators imbed IND$FILE and employees use it to circumvent policies prohibiting data transfer. Or maybe just to avoid delays in getting what an auditor might call "proper" access. For example, I've used IND$FILE to transfer an entire dumped/xmited 3390 volume to a client site, because getting sftp port access (and the associated big ZFS allocated and mounted) would have probably taken weeks. How secure is IND$FILE? Probably as secure for transport as the terminal protocol. Correct. Once a TN3270 SSL session is established, IND$FILE data (and even the underlying TN3270 protocol communication) is all encrypted. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:06:15 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >I believe that IND$FILE is included in your z/OS license. I also believe that >it is long out of support and less efficient than, e.g., SFTP (yes, FTP is >considered insecure these days.) > I suspect that some auditors are unaware that many terminal emulators imbed IND$FILE and employees use it to circumvent policies prohibiting data transfer. How secure is IND$FILE? Probably as secure for transport as the terminal protocol. But it still may transgress policies prohibiting data on personal devices (ref. HRC). On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 08:18:49 -0600, Tom Marchant wrote: > >Browsing the load module reveals this: > >5665-311 COPYRIGHT IBM CORP 1983,1988; LICENCED MATERIAL - PROPERTY OF IBM, >REFER TO COPYRIGHT INSTRUCTIONS FORM NO. G120-2083 > >1983 was several years after IBM went OCO. > >That, in turn was several years after they started to license and charge for >some software. > Might there have been earlier releases not so licen[cs]e encumbered and/or available in source? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
He was a TSO developer around that time. They had a clist compiler and CMS under MVS but couldn't get it out the door. Last presentation at SHARE was RATSO(Really Advanced). My thought was he would know the author. I found a few hits but looks like he's gone from IBM to BMW. In a message dated 11/29/2018 1:44:14 PM Central Standard Time, li...@akphs.com writes: Lepore? Why? Context/relevance? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
Edward Finnell wrote: >Anybody have a handle on Sam Lapore? Lepore? Why? Context/relevance? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
I believe that IND$FILE is included in your z/OS license. I also believe that it is long out of support and less efficient than, e.g., SFTP (yes, FTP is considered insecure these days.) -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 5:50 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 21:58:01 +, Edward Finnell wrote: >It's been marked 'Corporate Confidential' for years. > What's the license status of IND$FILE? If it was delivered before IBM licensed software, customers and others are free to use it anywhre, even Hercules. And IBM has no obligation to support or document it. If it was licensed to particular OS releases, no longer marketed, users on later releases may be in license violation. The client has been reverse-engineered for numerous platforms (e.g. Kermit). Might this violate a "no reverse-engineering" clause? (I believe it uses the 7171/Yale IUP convention of using an improbable sequence of 327x commands to put the client in data transfer mode.) Could IBM take legal action against any perceived violations? I believe that would be a bad PR move. What CCSIDs does it support? IBM doesn't want to discuss it. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
OCO was a gradual infestation. DF/DS, DF/EF (15 % discount on plasma), MVS/SE, MVS/SP and, as I recall, DFP, preceded it, and the was still microfiche for, e.g., TSO/E, long after OCO had started. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Tom Marchant <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 1:19 PM To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 14:50:00 +, David Spiegel wrote: >I disagree. OCO, IIRC, started in 1983. You might be right, I can't remember. I was certainly using microfiche into the '80s. However, MVS as a program product was a few years before 1983. -- Tom Marchant > >On 2018-11-29 09:18, Tom Marchant wrote: >> 1983 was several years after IBM went OCO. >> >> That, in turn was several years after they started to license and charge for >> some software. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
Don't confuse OCO with licensed software. OCO means that you don't have access to the source even if the program is public domain; licensed means that it only legal to use it if you have a license, even if it provided in source form. I'm aware of several licensed programs that were available *only* in source form. Copyright is yet another concept, although licensed software is generally copyrighted. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of David Spiegel Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 9:50 AM To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? I disagree. OCO, IIRC, started in 1983. On 2018-11-29 09:18, Tom Marchant wrote: > On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 16:50:07 -0600, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > >> What's the license status of IND$FILE? >> >> If it was delivered before IBM licensed software, customers and others >> are free to use it anywhre, even Hercules. > Browsing the load module reveals this: > > 5665-311 COPYRIGHT IBM CORP 1983,1988; LICENCED MATERIAL - PROPERTY OF IBM, > REFER TO COPYRIGHT INSTRUCTIONS FORM NO. G120-2083 > > 1983 was several years after IBM went OCO. > > That, in turn was several years after they started to license and charge for > some software. > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
I read the logic (PLM) manuals for the information that should have been in the programmers' manual and I read the microfiche for information that should have been in the logic manuals. Does anybody remember the consistently wrong DIDOCS APAR fixes in EWS? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Vernooij, Kees (ITOPT1) - KLM Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 10:04 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? I agree, during my first years at MVS, we still used microfiches to find out what IBM had done / done wrong (in our opinion). It could well be at 1983 that this was hidden from us. Kees. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of David Spiegel > Sent: 29 November, 2018 15:50 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? > > I disagree. OCO, IIRC, started in 1983. > > On 2018-11-29 09:18, Tom Marchant wrote: > > On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 16:50:07 -0600, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > > > >> What's the license status of IND$FILE? > >> > >> If it was delivered before IBM licensed software, customers and > others > >> are free to use it anywhre, even Hercules. > > Browsing the load module reveals this: > > > > 5665-311 COPYRIGHT IBM CORP 1983,1988; LICENCED MATERIAL - PROPERTY OF > IBM, REFER TO COPYRIGHT INSTRUCTIONS FORM NO. G120-2083 > > > > 1983 was several years after IBM went OCO. > > > > That, in turn was several years after they started to license and > charge for some software. > > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://secure-web.cisco.com/1M0vbclCE3BIxucLBopMPI9KC7GAcS11l2m2mU4vxLj7Dcy4cTQ--pAVgovWkCKGlSzJh5QLPkE3rDo8XjSUswKcR9yHuTJUj2kmjGqehPKjAli1cB9DgoIN7FYYgvR6zIm3TYUlcWU530nh1i-7kAV0wryKJgXTkqj0KApJovet0aL0g6SRU4AsIiMaMc8breUOs8TzbQcBpjgQolLHwVbtnLSmFyaNLiQTvIzLknejUWQyrBLOEgaMmwkVaaD3-OKKzoS_RFFtMpTIjOObJcqOUkDXlqeYALLT1Yk3s3gVkIAmm4NTcea5LNReZvj8MehiD8pq5M1oIrb_m901-e_J2YtIYxVTG6viZ-nFjExAnpxfRynRxmxtBU63nlr2Ny6XATsCwlBbIgQMQS0382aEuZFVvOeEuLHQstpV-Lei5uQ9JBx3BM0KnpD1K5lgZ/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 14:50:00 +, David Spiegel wrote: >I disagree. OCO, IIRC, started in 1983. You might be right, I can't remember. I was certainly using microfiche into the '80s. However, MVS as a program product was a few years before 1983. -- Tom Marchant > >On 2018-11-29 09:18, Tom Marchant wrote: >> 1983 was several years after IBM went OCO. >> >> That, in turn was several years after they started to license and charge for >> some software. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
I agree, during my first years at MVS, we still used microfiches to find out what IBM had done / done wrong (in our opinion). It could well be at 1983 that this was hidden from us. Kees. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of David Spiegel > Sent: 29 November, 2018 15:50 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? > > I disagree. OCO, IIRC, started in 1983. > > On 2018-11-29 09:18, Tom Marchant wrote: > > On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 16:50:07 -0600, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > > > >> What's the license status of IND$FILE? > >> > >> If it was delivered before IBM licensed software, customers and > others > >> are free to use it anywhre, even Hercules. > > Browsing the load module reveals this: > > > > 5665-311 COPYRIGHT IBM CORP 1983,1988; LICENCED MATERIAL - PROPERTY OF > IBM, REFER TO COPYRIGHT INSTRUCTIONS FORM NO. G120-2083 > > > > 1983 was several years after IBM went OCO. > > > > That, in turn was several years after they started to license and > charge for some software. > > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
I disagree. OCO, IIRC, started in 1983. On 2018-11-29 09:18, Tom Marchant wrote: > On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 16:50:07 -0600, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > >> What's the license status of IND$FILE? >> >> If it was delivered before IBM licensed software, customers and others >> are free to use it anywhre, even Hercules. > Browsing the load module reveals this: > > 5665-311 COPYRIGHT IBM CORP 1983,1988; LICENCED MATERIAL - PROPERTY OF IBM, > REFER TO COPYRIGHT INSTRUCTIONS FORM NO. G120-2083 > > 1983 was several years after IBM went OCO. > > That, in turn was several years after they started to license and charge for > some software. > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
"LICENCED" suggests UK origin. Interesting. On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 9:19 AM Tom Marchant < 000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 16:50:07 -0600, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > > >What's the license status of IND$FILE? > > > >If it was delivered before IBM licensed software, customers and others > >are free to use it anywhre, even Hercules. > > Browsing the load module reveals this: > > 5665-311 COPYRIGHT IBM CORP 1983,1988; LICENCED MATERIAL - PROPERTY OF > IBM, REFER TO COPYRIGHT INSTRUCTIONS FORM NO. G120-2083 > > 1983 was several years after IBM went OCO. > > That, in turn was several years after they started to license and charge > for some software. > > -- > Tom Marchant > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it" -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 16:50:07 -0600, Paul Gilmartin wrote: >What's the license status of IND$FILE? > >If it was delivered before IBM licensed software, customers and others >are free to use it anywhre, even Hercules. Browsing the load module reveals this: 5665-311 COPYRIGHT IBM CORP 1983,1988; LICENCED MATERIAL - PROPERTY OF IBM, REFER TO COPYRIGHT INSTRUCTIONS FORM NO. G120-2083 1983 was several years after IBM went OCO. That, in turn was several years after they started to license and charge for some software. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: SOLVED Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
Phil Smith III wrote: >Jack J. Woehr wrote: >>IND$FILE clearly is short for >>*I* *N*eed to *D*ownload this *$*#!% *FILE* >I like it!! We have a winner. Absolutely. This winner is larger than IGDZILLA ... ;-D Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: SOLVED Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
Jack J. Woehr wrote: >IND$FILE clearly is short for >*I* *N*eed to *D*ownload this *$*#!% *FILE* I like it!! We have a winner. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
SOLVED Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
IND$FILE clearly is short for *I* *N*eed to *D*ownload this *$*#!% *FILE* -- Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
Anybody have a handle on Sam Lapore? In a message dated 11/28/2018 7:03:26 PM Central Standard Time, rogerbo...@gmail.com writes: Now if somebody has the documentation for that it might explain the name IND$FILE. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
YES! That's what I was trying (and failing) to remember. Now if somebody has the documentation for that it might explain the name IND$FILE. On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 9:35 AM Mike Wawiorko < 014ab5cdfb21-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > Back to the IBM 3270 PC perhaps. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_3270_PC > > Mike Wawiorko > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of Charles Mills > Sent: 28 November 2018 16:26 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? > > > This mail originated from outside our organisation - charl...@mcn.org > > Back well before Windows 3. Back to DOS. > > Charles > > > > This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for > the addressee and may also be privileged or exempt from disclosure under > applicable law. If you are not the addressee, or have received this e-mail > in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete it from your system > and do not copy, disclose or otherwise act upon any part of this e-mail or > its attachments. > Internet communications are not guaranteed to be secure or virus-free. The > Barclays Group does not accept responsibility for any loss arising from > unauthorised access to, or interference with, any Internet communications > by any third party, or from the transmission of any viruses. Replies to > this e-mail may be monitored by the Barclays Group for operational or > business reasons. > Any opinion or other information in this e-mail or its attachments that > does not relate to the business of the Barclays Group is personal to the > sender and is not given or endorsed by the Barclays Group. > Barclays Services Limited provides support and administrative services > across Barclays group. Barclays Services Limited is an appointed > representative of Barclays Bank UK plc, Barclays Bank plc and Clydesdale > Financial Services Limited. Barclays Bank UK plc and Barclays Bank plc are > authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and regulated by the > Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority. > Clydesdale Financial Services Limited is authorised and regulated by the > Financial Conduct Authority. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 21:58:01 +, Edward Finnell wrote: >It's been marked 'Corporate Confidential' for years. > What's the license status of IND$FILE? If it was delivered before IBM licensed software, customers and others are free to use it anywhre, even Hercules. And IBM has no obligation to support or document it. If it was licensed to particular OS releases, no longer marketed, users on later releases may be in license violation. The client has been reverse-engineered for numerous platforms (e.g. Kermit). Might this violate a "no reverse-engineering" clause? (I believe it uses the 7171/Yale IUP convention of using an improbable sequence of 327x commands to put the client in data transfer mode.) Could IBM take legal action against any perceived violations? I believe that would be a bad PR move. What CCSIDs does it support? IBM doesn't want to discuss it. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
ISTR there is/was a naming committee. Maybe there's an archive. Bill Neiman in the ESA roll-out said XCF was the 34th choice. In a message dated 11/28/2018 11:22:25 AM Central Standard Time, martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com writes: Maybe back as far as MYTE. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
Maybe back as far as MYTE. Cheers, Martin Martin Packer zChampion, Systems Investigator & Performance Troubleshooter, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://developer.ibm.com/tv/mpt/or https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/mainframe-performance-topics/id1127943573?mt=2 Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA From: Mike Wawiorko <014ab5cdfb21-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 28/11/2018 16:35 Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List Back to the IBM 3270 PC perhaps. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_3270_PC Mike Wawiorko -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: 28 November 2018 16:26 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? This mail originated from outside our organisation - charl...@mcn.org Back well before Windows 3. Back to DOS. Charles This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for the addressee and may also be privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee, or have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete it from your system and do not copy, disclose or otherwise act upon any part of this e-mail or its attachments. Internet communications are not guaranteed to be secure or virus-free. The Barclays Group does not accept responsibility for any loss arising from unauthorised access to, or interference with, any Internet communications by any third party, or from the transmission of any viruses. Replies to this e-mail may be monitored by the Barclays Group for operational or business reasons. Any opinion or other information in this e-mail or its attachments that does not relate to the business of the Barclays Group is personal to the sender and is not given or endorsed by the Barclays Group. Barclays Services Limited provides support and administrative services across Barclays group. Barclays Services Limited is an appointed representative of Barclays Bank UK plc, Barclays Bank plc and Clydesdale Financial Services Limited. Barclays Bank UK plc and Barclays Bank plc are authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority. Clydesdale Financial Services Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
That was certainly the product that the command was intended to support, but where did the name come from? The use of a $ in the name was certainly distinctive. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Mike Wawiorko <014ab5cdfb21-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 11:34 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? Back to the IBM 3270 PC perhaps. https://secure-web.cisco.com/1VjEx55xJh9AR096IStif_MVIpdaL4nPVITWQvm5y2Q4mhv5Hf-9lELCyxhDolwdk-8LbbwcW1bWERo4con7ZPKoV20NS0WVDn-29Xq-UubBU-YUlA6MJwbx0aMAfd_9l6laiNsHreykcUFvLAyMrsZo6gVXUqrYDc3IrY7Qs3ONYRTcZDFX63U4qFeRdae2MLIQ8yZoPSvWHY8sEJgb5VfwBh2Wnl1D5ji5nhfUpXwvDUjkUvwxXsuTm973Vmc3B8LtWJOJ58rmv-zDoUNYsppKzbXmilPP2LTPJb3n7E_QvANGJ-jnNzPWKM1CzAEpiMbmtOu2r7Y2YLKNyfL2jCANPdainy8KGxZuqAjc1PUNtA7XAp6KqS2forSvRPkGg/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FIBM_3270_PC Mike Wawiorko -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: 28 November 2018 16:26 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? This mail originated from outside our organisation - charl...@mcn.org Back well before Windows 3. Back to DOS. Charles This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for the addressee and may also be privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee, or have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete it from your system and do not copy, disclose or otherwise act upon any part of this e-mail or its attachments. Internet communications are not guaranteed to be secure or virus-free. The Barclays Group does not accept responsibility for any loss arising from unauthorised access to, or interference with, any Internet communications by any third party, or from the transmission of any viruses. Replies to this e-mail may be monitored by the Barclays Group for operational or business reasons. Any opinion or other information in this e-mail or its attachments that does not relate to the business of the Barclays Group is personal to the sender and is not given or endorsed by the Barclays Group. Barclays Services Limited provides support and administrative services across Barclays group. Barclays Services Limited is an appointed representative of Barclays Bank UK plc, Barclays Bank plc and Clydesdale Financial Services Limited. Barclays Bank UK plc and Barclays Bank plc are authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority. Clydesdale Financial Services Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
Back to the IBM 3270 PC perhaps. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_3270_PC Mike Wawiorko -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: 28 November 2018 16:26 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? This mail originated from outside our organisation - charl...@mcn.org Back well before Windows 3. Back to DOS. Charles This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for the addressee and may also be privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee, or have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately, delete it from your system and do not copy, disclose or otherwise act upon any part of this e-mail or its attachments. Internet communications are not guaranteed to be secure or virus-free. The Barclays Group does not accept responsibility for any loss arising from unauthorised access to, or interference with, any Internet communications by any third party, or from the transmission of any viruses. Replies to this e-mail may be monitored by the Barclays Group for operational or business reasons. Any opinion or other information in this e-mail or its attachments that does not relate to the business of the Barclays Group is personal to the sender and is not given or endorsed by the Barclays Group. Barclays Services Limited provides support and administrative services across Barclays group. Barclays Services Limited is an appointed representative of Barclays Bank UK plc, Barclays Bank plc and Clydesdale Financial Services Limited. Barclays Bank UK plc and Barclays Bank plc are authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority. Clydesdale Financial Services Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
Back well before Windows 3. Back to DOS. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Roger Bolan Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 10:57 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? This is a really vague memory, but I think that the name IND$FILE goes all the way back, possibly to Windows 3.1. I think the product back then was PC3270. --Roger On Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 7:36 AM Charles Mills There is a link map on that link (hmmm, two different meanings of "link" > there) that shows INDx CSECT names, so I think it establishes that IND > is the component prefix. > > FILE is pretty obvious, like the COPY in IEBCOPY. > > So the only remaining question is "why the dollar sign?" (Or pound sign, > for > those of you so geographically disposed.) > > At my old company we reverse-engineered the protocol. > > Charles > > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Phil Smith III > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 8:47 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? > > That link doesn't tell me anything about the name that I can see. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
This is a really vague memory, but I think that the name IND$FILE goes all the way back, possibly to Windows 3.1. I think the product back then was PC3270. --Roger On Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 7:36 AM Charles Mills There is a link map on that link (hmmm, two different meanings of "link" > there) that shows INDx CSECT names, so I think it establishes that IND > is the component prefix. > > FILE is pretty obvious, like the COPY in IEBCOPY. > > So the only remaining question is "why the dollar sign?" (Or pound sign, > for > those of you so geographically disposed.) > > At my old company we reverse-engineered the protocol. > > Charles > > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Phil Smith III > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 8:47 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? > > That link doesn't tell me anything about the name that I can see. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
There is a link map on that link (hmmm, two different meanings of "link" there) that shows INDx CSECT names, so I think it establishes that IND is the component prefix. FILE is pretty obvious, like the COPY in IEBCOPY. So the only remaining question is "why the dollar sign?" (Or pound sign, for those of you so geographically disposed.) At my old company we reverse-engineered the protocol. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Phil Smith III Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 8:47 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? That link doesn't tell me anything about the name that I can see. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
That link doesn't tell me anything about the name that I can see. Somewhere I think I still have a copy of the one and only manual that documents the protocol. It was part of some early version of PCOMM, IIRC, and is very rare. Still doesn't explain the name. Charles' explanation might be it, but we still don't have confirmation. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
On 11/27/2018 4:58 PM, Mike Schwab wrote: http://gsf-soft.com/Documents/IND$FILE.html On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 3:48 PM Charles Mills wrote: Even after his passing, Gilbert continues to contribute. RIP, notre ami. Regards, Tom Conley -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
Makes sense. One would expect anything in d' money file to be marked 'Corporate Confidential' I know, pretty bad. From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Edward Finnell <000248cce9f3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 4:58 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? It's been marked 'Corporate Confidential' for years. In a message dated 11/27/2018 2:33:46 PM Central Standard Time, li...@akphs.com writes: IND$FILE got its name? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
http://gsf-soft.com/Documents/IND$FILE.html On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 3:48 PM Charles Mills wrote: > > Is IND the component prefix for PCOMM? So IND$FILE's name is kind of like > IEBCOPY's name? Prefix + function? > > Charles > > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Phil Smith III > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 3:33 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? > > Anyone know how IND$FILE got its name? Just randomly wondered today. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
It's been marked 'Corporate Confidential' for years. In a message dated 11/27/2018 2:33:46 PM Central Standard Time, li...@akphs.com writes: IND$FILE got its name? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
Is IND the component prefix for PCOMM? So IND$FILE's name is kind of like IEBCOPY's name? Prefix + function? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Phil Smith III Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 3:33 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from? Anyone know how IND$FILE got its name? Just randomly wondered today. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?
Anyone know how IND$FILE got its name? Just randomly wondered today. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
