Re: Line comments in DFSORT

[Cameron Conacher]

Yes indeed.
I like to use the asterisk in column one to comment the spirit of what I am 
attempting to do.
I use the short inline right sided comments to offer brief parm descriptions.

Thanks

…….Cameron

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Sri 
Hari Kolusu
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2024 10:22 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Line comments in DFSORT

>> And, using the example provided, we are able to add a comment to the first 
>> two lines but not the last line, since it does not have a hyphen? Cameron, 
>> That is true. But if you want you can add as many comment lines you want 
>> using *


>> And, using the example provided, we are able to add a comment to the first 
>> two lines but not the last line, since it does not have a hyphen?



Cameron,



That is true. But if you want you can add as many comment lines you want using 
* in column 1.



//TOOLIN   DD *

* Enter ICETOOL operators here

* My comment line - 1

* My comment line - 2

* My comment line - 3

* My comment line - 4



  COPY FROM(INPUTA) TO(OUTA)



/*





Thanks,

Kolusu

DFSORT Development

IBM Corporation







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Re: Line comments in DFSORT

[Sri Hari Kolusu]

>> And, using the example provided, we are able to add a comment to the first 
>> two lines but not the last line, since it does not have a hyphen?

Cameron,

That is true. But if you want you can add as many comment lines you want using 
* in column 1.

//TOOLIN   DD *
* Enter ICETOOL operators here
* My comment line - 1
* My comment line - 2
* My comment line - 3
* My comment line - 4

  COPY FROM(INPUTA) TO(OUTA)

/*


Thanks,
Kolusu
DFSORT Development
IBM Corporation



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Re: Line comments in DFSORT

[Sri Hari Kolusu]

>> Which shows me that line comments are a byproduct of the ICETOOL 
>> continuation logic, and not a core feature. From your earlier example, I 
>> thought that the # character had some significance, but now I see that it 
>> does not.

Bob,

Just a clarification here.  TOOLIN is the ONLY DD where you cannot have 
REMARKS.  You can code the remarks after the continuation mark.

And the REMARKS as you say line comments you have coded are simply ignored 
after the end of the key word like how TOOLIN dd ignores the content after the 
hyphen. 


>>None of the examples in the doc show line comments being used.

Agreed that finding information in the manuals is tedious but not sure why you 
keep saying stuff like this , when there is an example. Check the examples in 
this link.

https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=rules-continuation-lines 


Most of the examples in our publications do not use line as we have a detailed 
explanation below of the what the example shown is doing.  Look at the example 
link given below

>> I use the traditional "* in column 1" comment to show "Here is what is 
>> coming up in the next several lines of code", usually with a blank line in 
>> front, so that the eye can scan to each block of statements quickly.

This is allowed even in TOOLIN and the examples of ICETOOL does show that.

https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=streams-icetool-example

>> I use line comments to explain the gory details of the code immediately to 
>> the left of it.

The gory details you talk about are usually in  SYSIN for SORT and XXXCNTL for 
ICETOOL.  Both of them allow the REMARKS the line comments.  

>> While teaching, we seek to have a stream of "Aha, I get what it is doing!" 
>> moments. Line comments help us to explain those gory details that lead to 
>> the "Light Bulb" moment.

TOOLIN statements are mostly english like language statements and the gory 
details are in SYSIN and XXXCNTL and both of them allow the Remarks.

You can follow the assembler approach for TOOLIN.

Thanks,
Kolusu
DFSORT Development
IBM Corporation


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Re: Line comments in DFSORT

[Cameron Conacher]

Hello,
And, using the example provided, we are able to add a comment to the first two 
lines but not the last line, since it does not have a hyphen?


Thanks

…….Cameron

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Bob 
Stark
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2024 8:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Line comments in DFSORT

I found this in the ICETOOL doc: | Continuation can be indicated by a hyphen 
(-) after the operator or after any operand. The next operand must then be 
specified on the next line. For example: | SORT FROM(INDD) - | USING(ABCD) - | 
TO(OUTPUT1,OUTPUT2,OUTPUT3)


I found this in the ICETOOL doc:



| Continuation can be indicated by a hyphen (-) after the operator or after any 
operand. The next operand must then be specified on the next line. For example:

| SORT FROM(INDD) -

|USING(ABCD) -

|TO(OUTPUT1,OUTPUT2,OUTPUT3)

|

| Any characters specified after the hyphen are ignored.



Which shows me that line comments are a byproduct of the ICETOOL continuation 
logic, and not a core feature. From your earlier example, I thought that the # 
character had some significance, but now I see that it does not.



None of the examples in the doc show line comments being used.



I use the traditional "* in column 1" comment to show "Here is what is coming 
up in the next several lines of code", usually with a blank line in front, so 
that the eye can scan to each block of statements quickly.



I use line comments to explain the gory details of the code immediately to the 
left of it.



This is the style I learned as an Assembler programmer, and it carries forward 
to my work in many other languages.



DFSORT and ICETOOL code can be very complex, and is daunting for a new student, 
looking at it for the first time.



While teaching, we seek to have a stream of "Aha, I get what it is doing!" 
moments. Line comments help us to explain those gory details that lead to the 
"Light Bulb" moment.



The best thing about the DFSORT documentation is that there are numerous 
examples of different scenarios, with the code to handle that scenario. Other 
IBM products would do well to follow this approach.



Regards,

Bob Stark



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Re: Line comments in DFSORT

[Bob Stark]

I found this in the ICETOOL doc:

| Continuation can be indicated by a hyphen (-) after the operator or after any 
operand. The next operand must then be specified on the next line. For example:
| SORT FROM(INDD) -
|USING(ABCD) -
|TO(OUTPUT1,OUTPUT2,OUTPUT3)
|
| Any characters specified after the hyphen are ignored.

Which shows me that line comments are a byproduct of the ICETOOL continuation 
logic, and not a core feature. From your earlier example, I thought that the # 
character had some significance, but now I see that it does not.

None of the examples in the doc show line comments being used.

I use the traditional "* in column 1" comment to show "Here is what is coming 
up in the next several lines of code", usually with a blank line in front, so 
that the eye can scan to each block of statements quickly.

I use line comments to explain the gory details of the code immediately to the 
left of it.

This is the style I learned as an Assembler programmer, and it carries forward 
to my work in many other languages.

DFSORT and ICETOOL code can be very complex, and is daunting for a new student, 
looking at it for the first time. 

While teaching, we seek to have a stream of "Aha, I get what it is doing!" 
moments. Line comments help us to explain those gory details that lead to the 
"Light Bulb" moment.

The best thing about the DFSORT documentation is that there are numerous 
examples of different scenarios, with the code to handle that scenario. Other 
IBM products would do well to follow this approach.

Regards,
Bob Stark

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Re: Line comments in DFSORT

[Sri Hari Kolusu]

>> It's unusual, having to add an un-necessary line split just to add a 
>> comment. I was expecting it to work more like IDCAMS, TSO or JCL.

What is stopping you from doing coding like this?

//TOOLIN   DD *
* Enter ICETOOL operators here *

* COPY INPUTA TO OUTA
  COPY  FROM(INPUTA) TO(OUTA)

* COPY INPUT1 TO OUTB
  COPY  FROM(INPUT1) TO(OUTB) USING(ALAS)

* COPY INPUTX TO OUTC
  SORT  FROM(INPUTX) TO(OUTC) USING(ALAK)
/*


>> I searched for every # in the the DFSORT Application Programming Guide to 
>> verify that ICETOOL line comments are not documented.

Not sure where you looked but it is documented here

ICETOOL can be called directly or from a program. ICETOOL allows operator 
statements (and comments) to be supplied in a data set or in a parameter list 
passed by a calling program.

https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.5.0?topic=overview-icetooldfsort-relationship


>> I was expecting it to work more like IDCAMS, TSO or JCL.

/*  comment is valid for JCL but not valid for IDCAMS SYSIN as it would signal 
the end of input.

Ie
//SYSINDD *
  LISTCAT ENT('HLQ.MLQ.TLQ') ALL
/* COMMENT-1 */
 LISTCAT ENT('A.B.C') ALL
/*

The second listcat command would NOT execute

So you have to move the comments to position 2 or greater also you need to 
enclose them between /* and */

//SYSINDD *
 /* COMMENT-1 */
 LISTCAT ENT('HLQ.MLQ.TLQ') ALL
 /* COMMENT-2 */
 LISTCAT ENT('A.B.C') ALL
/*

Every utility has its own rules and DFSORT has the most flexible rules. You 
just cannot compare to other utilities.


Thanks,
Kolusu


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Re: Line comments in DFSORT

[Bob Stark]

You wrote:  I had the remarks/comments after the Continuation character (-).  

Sure enough, when I did that, it worked. 

It's unusual, having to add an un-necessary line split just to add a comment. I 
was expecting it to work more like IDCAMS, TSO or JCL.

I searched for every # in the the DFSORT Application Programming Guide to 
verify that ICETOOL line comments are not documented.

Thanks again for your help figuring this out. I'm updating our DFSORT and 
ICETOOL training course materials. The examples will be more readable now!

Regards,
Bob Stark


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Re: Line comments in DFSORT

[Sri Hari Kolusu]

>> That is good news, but I cannot seem to replicate your results.

Bob,

If you noticed my example job keenly, I had the remarks/comments after the 
Continuation character (-).Btw TOOLIN statements are self-explanatory. You 
adding the remarks is kind of repeating the statements once again

Either way you can something like this

//STEP0100 EXEC PGM=ICETOOL
//TOOLMSG  DD SYSOUT=*
//DFSMSG   DD SYSOUT=*
//INPUTA   DD *
ABC
//INPUT1   DD *
DEF
IJK
//INPUTX   DD *
ABC
XYZ
DEF
//OUTA DD SYSOUT=*
//OUTB DD SYSOUT=*
//OUTC DD SYSOUT=*
//TOOLIN   DD *
  COPY  FROM(INPUTA) -  # COPY INPUTA TO OUTA
  TO(OUTA)
  COPY  FROM(INPUT1) -  # COPY INPUT1 TO OUTB
  TO(OUTB) USING(ALAS)
  SORT  FROM(INPUTX) -  # COPY INPUTX TO OUTC
  TO(OUTC) USING(ALAK)
/*
//ALASCNTL DD *
  INREC OVERLAY(10:C'BOB')  # Add BOB to every record
/*
//ALAKCNTL DD *
  SORT FIELDS=(1,3,CH,D)# sort field-1 Desc
/*


Thanks,
Kolusu
DFSORT Development
IBM Corporation



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Re: Line comments in DFSORT

[Bob Stark]

That is good news, but I cannot seem to replicate your results

ICE281I 0 ORIGINAL OPERATOR STATEMENTS FOLLOW  
  * Enter ICETOOL operators here * 
COPY  FROM(INPUTA) TO(OUTA)  # COPY INPUTA TO OUTA 
COPY  FROM(INPUT1) USING(ALAS)  TO(OUTB) # COPY INPUT1 TO OUTB 
SORT  FROM(INPUTX) USING(ALAK)  TO(OUTC) # COPY INPUTX TO OUTC 
   
ICE282I 1 PERFORMING SYMBOL SUBSTITUTION AS NEEDED 
   
ICE630I 0 MODE IN EFFECT:  STOP
   
COPY  FROM(INPUTA) TO(OUTA)  # COPY INPUTA TO OUTA 
 $ 
ICE604A 0 ERROR IN KEYWORD, PARAMETER, OR DELIMITER
ICE602I 0 OPERATION RETURN CODE:  12   
   
ICE630I 2 MODE IN EFFECT:  SCAN
   
COPY  FROM(INPUT1) USING(ALAS)  TO(OUTB) # COPY INPUT1 TO OUTB 
 $ 
ICE604A 0 ERROR IN KEYWORD, PARAMETER, OR DELIMITER
   
SORT  FROM(INPUTX) USING(ALAK)  TO(OUTC) # COPY INPUTX TO OUTC 
 $ 
ICE604A 0 ERROR IN KEYWORD, PARAMETER, OR DELIMITER

Regards, Bob Stark

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Re: Line comments in DFSORT

[Tom Marchant]

I was on bitsavers, so I looked.I thought I remembered that the old Sort/Merge 
program supported comments on the control cards. See pages 11 and 12.
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/os/R01-08/C28-6543-2_Sort_Merge_Apr66.pdf 

I'm sure that DFSORT would have always accepted any valid Sort/Merge statements.

-- 
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Re: [EXTERNAL] Line comments in DFSORT

[Pommier, Rex]

Sorry, I didn't see Sri's remarks (no pun intended) until after I had replied.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Pommier, Rex
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2024 3:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Line comments in DFSORT

Actually it is documented.  They're just not called comments.  Look up "remark" 
in the DFSort application programming guide.
Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Bob 
Stark
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2024 2:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Line comments in DFSORT

I just did an experiment in DFSORT with JCL-style line comments after INCLUDE, 
SORT, and OUTREC, and they work!

The DFSORT doc says that comments are only supported when entered with * on 
column 1. 

When was this implemented, and why isn’t this documented? Do you think it is 
safe to rely on?

I sent this question to dfs...@us.ibm.com but it bounced right back, perhaps 
there are DFSORT developers here.

Regards,
Bob Stark

//STEP1EXEC PGM=SORT   
//SYSIN DD  *  
  INCLUDE COND=(9,1,CH,EQ,C'3',|, PART NUMBERS ENDING IN 3 
9,1,CH,EQ,C'5',|, PART NUMBERS ENDING IN 5 
9,1,CH,EQ,C'7')   PART NUMBERS ENDING IN 7 
  SORT FIELDS=(10,30,CH,A)SORT ASCENDING BY DESCRIPTION
  OUTREC BUILD=(2X,10,30,3X,1,9,3X,68,10) DESCRIPTION, PARTNO, CATEGORY
//SYSOUTDD  SYSOUT=*   
//SORTOUT   DD  SYSOUT=*   
//SORTINDD  DISP=SHR,DSN= 

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Line comments in DFSORT

[Pommier, Rex]

Actually it is documented.  They're just not called comments.  Look up "remark" 
in the DFSort application programming guide.
Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Bob 
Stark
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2024 2:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Line comments in DFSORT

I just did an experiment in DFSORT with JCL-style line comments after INCLUDE, 
SORT, and OUTREC, and they work!

The DFSORT doc says that comments are only supported when entered with * on 
column 1. 

When was this implemented, and why isn’t this documented? Do you think it is 
safe to rely on?

I sent this question to dfs...@us.ibm.com but it bounced right back, perhaps 
there are DFSORT developers here.

Regards,
Bob Stark

//STEP1EXEC PGM=SORT   
//SYSIN DD  *  
  INCLUDE COND=(9,1,CH,EQ,C'3',|, PART NUMBERS ENDING IN 3 
9,1,CH,EQ,C'5',|, PART NUMBERS ENDING IN 5 
9,1,CH,EQ,C'7')   PART NUMBERS ENDING IN 7 
  SORT FIELDS=(10,30,CH,A)SORT ASCENDING BY DESCRIPTION
  OUTREC BUILD=(2X,10,30,3X,1,9,3X,68,10) DESCRIPTION, PARTNO, CATEGORY
//SYSOUTDD  SYSOUT=*   
//SORTOUT   DD  SYSOUT=*   
//SORTINDD  DISP=SHR,DSN= 

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Re: Line comments in DFSORT

[Sri Hari Kolusu]

>> Alas, ICETOOL does not support the same kind of comments.

Bob,

Not sure what you meant by that.  ICETOOL statements TOOLIN and XXXCNTL do 
support comments.  Here is an example.

//STEP0100 EXEC PGM=ICETOOL
//TOOLMSG  DD SYSOUT=*
//DFSMSG   DD SYSOUT=*
//IN   DD *
ABC
DEF
//CTL1OUT  DD SYSOUT=*
//TOOLIN   DD *
  SORT FROM(IN) -# My comment in toolin
  USING(CTL1)
/*
//CTL1CNTL DD *
  SORT FIELDS=(1,3,CH,D) # sort field-1 Desc
/*

Thanks,
Kolusu
DFSORT Development
IBM Corporation



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Re: Line comments in DFSORT

[Bob Stark]

Thanks. That online doc is tricky, I read the detail page which didn't mention 
"Remarks". The higher level page that you shared did mention them.

I experimented with our legacy system, and it supported them too (but was 
missing other features like OUTREC).

Alas, ICETOOL does not support the same kind of comments.

Regards,
Bob Stark

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Re: Line comments in DFSORT

[Sri Hari Kolusu]

>> I just did an experiment in DFSORT with JCL-style line comments after 
>> INCLUDE, SORT, and OUTREC, and they work!
The DFSORT doc says that comments are only supported when entered with * on 
column 1.

Bob,

Of course, they work as you entered a REMARKS.

Remark Field :  This field can contain any information. It is not required, but 
if it is present, it must be separated from the last operand field by at least 
one blank.

This is documented in here .

https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/3.1.0?topic=statements-general-coding-rules

≫ The DFSORT doc says that comments are only supported when entered with * on 
column 1.
When was this implemented, and why isn’t this documented? Do you think it is 
safe to rely on?

The behavior did not change. It stayed the same across releases.  You can rely 
on remarks working across releases.

≫ When was this implemented, and why isn’t this documented? Do you think it is 
safe to rely on?

AFAIK, the behavior is the same since the inception of DFSORT.

≫ I sent this question to dfs...@us.ibm.com but it 
bounced right back, perhaps there are DFSORT developers here.

The hotline is shut off and we updated the pubs to remove the references to 
that.  I am not sure which documentation you are looking for, but pubs for V2R5 
and higher will not have that reference.

≫perhaps there are DFSORT developers here.

I for one am an active participant on this list.


Thanks,
Kolusu
DFSORT Development
IBM Corporation



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Line comments in DFSORT

[Bob Stark]

I just did an experiment in DFSORT with JCL-style line comments after INCLUDE, 
SORT, and OUTREC, and they work!

The DFSORT doc says that comments are only supported when entered with * on 
column 1. 

When was this implemented, and why isn’t this documented? Do you think it is 
safe to rely on?

I sent this question to dfs...@us.ibm.com but it bounced right back, perhaps 
there are DFSORT developers here.

Regards,
Bob Stark

//STEP1EXEC PGM=SORT   
//SYSIN DD  *  
  INCLUDE COND=(9,1,CH,EQ,C'3',|, PART NUMBERS ENDING IN 3 
9,1,CH,EQ,C'5',|, PART NUMBERS ENDING IN 5 
9,1,CH,EQ,C'7')   PART NUMBERS ENDING IN 7 
  SORT FIELDS=(10,30,CH,A)SORT ASCENDING BY DESCRIPTION
  OUTREC BUILD=(2X,10,30,3X,1,9,3X,68,10) DESCRIPTION, PARTNO, CATEGORY
//SYSOUTDD  SYSOUT=*   
//SORTOUT   DD  SYSOUT=*   
//SORTINDD  DISP=SHR,DSN= 

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