Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Charles Mills]

It's education!

I never knew what Paste Window did.

Thanks!

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tom Brennan
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 1:27 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

Like Gil said, I'm not sure that will work in this case.  My theory is 
that the two SDSF fields are simply concatenated together, including any 
trailing blanks, when they arrive at the host.  So splitting lines 
without splitting words would introduce more blanks that would interfere 
with the command, at least in Skip's case.

Vista has a similar function, but you need to draw a window with the 
mouse telling it the location of the area you want to paste your data, 
and then hit ctrl-w (PasteWindow).  I use that when I have a string of 
data typically with few or no CR's that I need to get to the screen. 
Note this is not a plug just a response, don't throw me out of the group 
please.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Tom Brennan]

Like Gil said, I'm not sure that will work in this case.  My theory is 
that the two SDSF fields are simply concatenated together, including any 
trailing blanks, when they arrive at the host.  So splitting lines 
without splitting words would introduce more blanks that would interfere 
with the command, at least in Skip's case.


Vista has a similar function, but you need to draw a window with the 
mouse telling it the location of the area you want to paste your data, 
and then hit ctrl-w (PasteWindow).  I use that when I have a string of 
data typically with few or no CR's that I need to get to the screen. 
Note this is not a plug just a response, don't throw me out of the group 
please.


On 12/2/2020 12:45 PM, Bloomfield, Garth wrote:

In PCOMM V14 in SETTINGS  there is an EDIT PASTE option ‘don’t split words’  
checkbox that allows a long line to be successfully pasted into the SDSF 
command line.



Cheers

Garth






Date:Tue, 1 Dec 2020 20:06:47 -0800



From:Tom Brennan 



Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command







And probably dozens more!



Thanks Skip (Vista TN3270 user #1)






On 12/1/2020 5:45 PM, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:


Wow. I had forgotten about Paste-by-typing! IIRC Tom created that function 
years ago at my request to handle some long since abandoned IBM problem 
management app. Until now I never had a reason to revisit the function.







In my estimation, most of Vista's special copy/paste functions cannot be found 
represented in ANY other emulator.















.



.



J.O.Skip Robinson



Southern California Edison Company



Electric Dragon Team Paddler



SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager



323-715-0595 Mobile



626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW



robin...@sce.com







DXC Technology NZ Limited (Company number 1441241).
DXC Technology Company -- This message is transmitted to you by or on behalf of 
DXC Technology Company or one of its affiliates. It is intended exclusively for 
the addressee. The substance of this message, along with any attachments, may 
contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information or information that 
is otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. Any unauthorized review, use, 
disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient 
of this message, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or 
disseminate any part of this message. If you have received this message in 
error, please destroy and delete all copies and notify the sender by return 
e-mail. Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind DXC 
Technology Company or any of its affiliates to any order or other contract 
unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative 
expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. --.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN



--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 20:45:49 +, Bloomfield, Garth wrote:

>In PCOMM V14 in SETTINGS  there is an EDIT PASTE option ‘don’t split words’  
>checkbox that allows a long line to be successfully pasted into the SDSF 
>command line.
> 
What does ‘don’t split words’ do if the text to be pasted can be fit
*only* by splitting a word?

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Bloomfield, Garth]

In PCOMM V14 in SETTINGS  there is an EDIT PASTE option ‘don’t split words’  
checkbox that allows a long line to be successfully pasted into the SDSF 
command line.



Cheers

Garth





>Date:Tue, 1 Dec 2020 20:06:47 -0800

>From:Tom Brennan 

>Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

>

>And probably dozens more!

>Thanks Skip (Vista TN3270 user #1)

>

On 12/1/2020 5:45 PM, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

> Wow. I had forgotten about Paste-by-typing! IIRC Tom created that function 
> years ago at my request to handle some long since abandoned IBM problem 
> management app. Until now I never had a reason to revisit the function.

>

> In my estimation, most of Vista's special copy/paste functions cannot be 
> found represented in ANY other emulator.

>

>

>

> .

> .

> J.O.Skip Robinson

> Southern California Edison Company

> Electric Dragon Team Paddler

> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager

> 323-715-0595 Mobile

> 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW

> robin...@sce.com

>


DXC Technology NZ Limited (Company number 1441241).
DXC Technology Company -- This message is transmitted to you by or on behalf of 
DXC Technology Company or one of its affiliates. It is intended exclusively for 
the addressee. The substance of this message, along with any attachments, may 
contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information or information that 
is otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. Any unauthorized review, use, 
disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient 
of this message, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or 
disseminate any part of this message. If you have received this message in 
error, please destroy and delete all copies and notify the sender by return 
e-mail. Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind DXC 
Technology Company or any of its affiliates to any order or other contract 
unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative 
expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. --.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Seymour J Metz]

> IBM's excuse

Is an excuse after the fact, not a considered design decision. That's why I 
coined "Broken As Designed (BAD)".

> is that protects the user against unwittingly entering more than 1023 
> characters

Except that it doesn't. Making the field shorter protects against excessive 
length; splitting the field just makes it more awkward to use.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 12:21 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 16:34:27 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>> In some cases, such as 3.17, ISPF puts a visible pillarbox around the 80
>> columns, marking it with  "|".
>
>In those cases you're dealing with two input fields; you'd get the same insert 
>behavior if the input fields and the intervening output fields were in the 
>same line.
>
I was unclear.  3.17 has an adjunct panel where the user can enter a full
pathname   On a Mod 2/4 this is formatted as a single field occupying 12
lines and most of a 13th.  On a Mod 5 it's 13 separate fields in a pillarbox.

So, if I realize I've omitted characters or a level, I must turn on INSERT;
go to the end of each prior line and delete the necessary characters;
go to the beginning and retype those characters from the end of the
previous line; etc.

IBM's excuse is that protects the user against unwittingly entering more
than 1023 characters and receiving "EDC5126I   Filename too long."
Sheesh!  It's no harder to recover from EDC5126I than from a locked
keyboard.  And that's an unlikely error anyway.  And I can force the
EDC5126I anyway by entering a pathname containing a symlink.

>> Supporting the antique and not the modern is just bad design.
>
>++
>
>>  (How long has the Mod 5 been around?)
>
>Only 4 decades

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 16:34:27 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>> In some cases, such as 3.17, ISPF puts a visible pillarbox around the 80
>> columns, marking it with  "|".
>
>In those cases you're dealing with two input fields; you'd get the same insert 
>behavior if the input fields and the intervening output fields were in the 
>same line.
>
I was unclear.  3.17 has an adjunct panel where the user can enter a full
pathname   On a Mod 2/4 this is formatted as a single field occupying 12
lines and most of a 13th.  On a Mod 5 it's 13 separate fields in a pillarbox.

So, if I realize I've omitted characters or a level, I must turn on INSERT;
go to the end of each prior line and delete the necessary characters;
go to the beginning and retype those characters from the end of the
previous line; etc.

IBM's excuse is that protects the user against unwittingly entering more
than 1023 characters and receiving "EDC5126I   Filename too long."
Sheesh!  It's no harder to recover from EDC5126I than from a locked
keyboard.  And that's an unlikely error anyway.  And I can force the
EDC5126I anyway by entering a pathname containing a symlink.

>> Supporting the antique and not the modern is just bad design.
>
>++
>
>>  (How long has the Mod 5 been around?)
>
>Only 4 decades

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Seymour J Metz]

> In some cases, such as 3.17, ISPF puts a visible pillarbox around the 80
> columns, marking it with  "|".

In those cases you're dealing with two input fields; you'd get the same insert 
behavior if the input fields and the intervening output fields were in the same 
line.

> Supporting the antique and not the modern is just bad design.

++

>  (How long has the Mod 5 been around?)

Only 4 decades


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 8:49 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 16:45:46 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:

>I have no idea how all the layers work. My guess is that the SDSF coders
>intended one field, but when it gets turned into 80 columns centered in a >
>80 column wide screen, that ISPF turns it into two fields. As I say, I do
>not know how the various layers there interact with each other.
>
In some cases, such as 3.17, ISPF puts a visible pillarbox around the 80
columns, marking it with  "|".

>See for yourself what I am describing: sign on with a screen wider than 80.
>Go to SDSF and type /+. Hit PF5.
>
Does the behavior differ between 80 columns and wider?  (I think that's
what you're saying.)  Supporting the antique and not the modern is just
bad design.  (How long has the Mod 5 been around?)

>-Original Message-
>From: Seymour J Metz
>Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 4:05 PM
>
>> SDSF thinks it continues
>
>What are you trying to say? Either it is one field or it is not. Where are
>the SF/SFE positions?
>
The TAB key should be telling.  Does TAB move the cursor to the beginning
of that second line (wrong!) or farther, to the next intended field (right).

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Rob Scott]

I don't think that it would be unreasonable for SDSF development to make the 
full screen slash panel aware of wide screen geometry in a future release.


Rob Scott
Rocket Software

On 2 Dec 2020 1:49 am, Paul Gilmartin 
<000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
EXTERNAL EMAIL





On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 16:45:46 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:

>I have no idea how all the layers work. My guess is that the SDSF coders
>intended one field, but when it gets turned into 80 columns centered in a >
>80 column wide screen, that ISPF turns it into two fields. As I say, I do
>not know how the various layers there interact with each other.
>
In some cases, such as 3.17, ISPF puts a visible pillarbox around the 80
columns, marking it with  "|".

>See for yourself what I am describing: sign on with a screen wider than 80.
>Go to SDSF and type /+. Hit PF5.
>
Does the behavior differ between 80 columns and wider?  (I think that's
what you're saying.)  Supporting the antique and not the modern is just
bad design.  (How long has the Mod 5 been around?)

>-Original Message-
>From: Seymour J Metz
>Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 4:05 PM
>
>> SDSF thinks it continues
>
>What are you trying to say? Either it is one field or it is not. Where are
>the SF/SFE positions?
>
The TAB key should be telling.  Does TAB move the cursor to the beginning
of that second line (wrong!) or farther, to the next intended field (right).

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN



Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ? 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ? 
Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323
Contact Customer Support: 
https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport
Unsubscribe from Marketing Messages/Manage Your Subscription Preferences - 
http://www.rocketsoftware.com/manage-your-email-preferences
Privacy Policy - http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy


This communication and any attachments may contain confidential information of 
Rocket Software, Inc. All unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify Rocket 
Software immediately and destroy all copies of this communication. Thank you.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Tom Brennan]

And probably dozens more!
Thanks Skip (Vista TN3270 user #1)

On 12/1/2020 5:45 PM, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

Wow. I had forgotten about Paste-by-typing! IIRC Tom created that function 
years ago at my request to handle some long since abandoned IBM problem 
management app. Until now I never had a reason to revisit the function.

In my estimation, most of Vista's special copy/paste functions cannot be found 
represented in ANY other emulator.



.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Charles Mills
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 3:40 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

Yes, I use Paste-by-Typing on that panel and it works as desired.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tom Brennan
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 3:23 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

I purposely don't say Vista emulates any particular real terminal, and there's 
no option to specify you want to look like a 3278 vs. a 3279 or whatever.  That 
helps keep me out of trouble when it comes to details like this :)

But in addition, I took some poetic-license with certain things that bothered 
me about a real terminal.  For example, I seem to remember some programs that 
would initially fill an input area with nulls, and if you moved the cursor out 
to the right and started typing, the host would remove the nulls abd scoot your 
typing to the left.  Not what I wanted, so there's a Vista option (on by 
default) that replaces those nulls to the left with real spaces.  I don't think 
that's involved with this problem though.

There's another option to convert nulls to blanks when sending them to the host 
(off by default), in case anybody needs that.  But that causes enough trouble 
that when you try to set that option in Vista, you get a warning window telling 
you that you probably don't want to do that.

I need to find Skip's original post and see if I can reproduce the error and 
perhaps understand it a bit better, or at least see if it could be an emulator 
issue or not.

I typically use an old PCOMM version I have to determine what a real terminal 
would do, since I'll probably never see another real one except at a museum.  
My theory was the old PCOMM was programmed using logic obtained directly from 
the ROM in a real terminal, maybe even ported.
So I would expect PCOMM to be the gold-standard when any questions come up.

If that SDSF screen is the one I'm thinking of, it's a couple of separate 
fields with a jump to the second line.  If you have a long command in your 
clipboard, you might try the PasteByTyping function which simulates typing each 
character and does the jump.  Menu:
Edit/Paste-Functions/Paste-By-Typing.  But yeah, it might be a stretch to 
expect an emulator to do inserts and deletes as if it was one line.

Oops... Sorry.  Long post.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN



--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 16:45:46 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:

>I have no idea how all the layers work. My guess is that the SDSF coders
>intended one field, but when it gets turned into 80 columns centered in a >
>80 column wide screen, that ISPF turns it into two fields. As I say, I do
>not know how the various layers there interact with each other.
> 
In some cases, such as 3.17, ISPF puts a visible pillarbox around the 80
columns, marking it with  "|".

>See for yourself what I am describing: sign on with a screen wider than 80.
>Go to SDSF and type /+. Hit PF5.
> 
Does the behavior differ between 80 columns and wider?  (I think that's
what you're saying.)  Supporting the antique and not the modern is just
bad design.  (How long has the Mod 5 been around?)

>-Original Message-
>From: Seymour J Metz
>Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 4:05 PM
>
>> SDSF thinks it continues
>
>What are you trying to say? Either it is one field or it is not. Where are
>the SF/SFE positions?
>
The TAB key should be telling.  Does TAB move the cursor to the beginning
of that second line (wrong!) or farther, to the next intended field (right).

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

Wow. I had forgotten about Paste-by-typing! IIRC Tom created that function 
years ago at my request to handle some long since abandoned IBM problem 
management app. Until now I never had a reason to revisit the function. 

In my estimation, most of Vista's special copy/paste functions cannot be found 
represented in ANY other emulator. 



.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Charles Mills
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 3:40 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

Yes, I use Paste-by-Typing on that panel and it works as desired.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tom Brennan
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 3:23 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

I purposely don't say Vista emulates any particular real terminal, and there's 
no option to specify you want to look like a 3278 vs. a 3279 or whatever.  That 
helps keep me out of trouble when it comes to details like this :)

But in addition, I took some poetic-license with certain things that bothered 
me about a real terminal.  For example, I seem to remember some programs that 
would initially fill an input area with nulls, and if you moved the cursor out 
to the right and started typing, the host would remove the nulls abd scoot your 
typing to the left.  Not what I wanted, so there's a Vista option (on by 
default) that replaces those nulls to the left with real spaces.  I don't think 
that's involved with this problem though.

There's another option to convert nulls to blanks when sending them to the host 
(off by default), in case anybody needs that.  But that causes enough trouble 
that when you try to set that option in Vista, you get a warning window telling 
you that you probably don't want to do that.

I need to find Skip's original post and see if I can reproduce the error and 
perhaps understand it a bit better, or at least see if it could be an emulator 
issue or not.

I typically use an old PCOMM version I have to determine what a real terminal 
would do, since I'll probably never see another real one except at a museum.  
My theory was the old PCOMM was programmed using logic obtained directly from 
the ROM in a real terminal, maybe even ported.
So I would expect PCOMM to be the gold-standard when any questions come up.

If that SDSF screen is the one I'm thinking of, it's a couple of separate 
fields with a jump to the second line.  If you have a long command in your 
clipboard, you might try the PasteByTyping function which simulates typing each 
character and does the jump.  Menu:
Edit/Paste-Functions/Paste-By-Typing.  But yeah, it might be a stretch to 
expect an emulator to do inserts and deletes as if it was one line.

Oops... Sorry.  Long post.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Charles Mills]

I have no idea how all the layers work. My guess is that the SDSF coders
intended one field, but when it gets turned into 80 columns centered in a >
80 column wide screen, that ISPF turns it into two fields. As I say, I do
not know how the various layers there interact with each other.

See for yourself what I am describing: sign on with a screen wider than 80.
Go to SDSF and type /+. Hit PF5.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 4:05 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

> SDSF thinks it continues

What are you trying to say? Either it is one field or it is not. Where are
the SF/SFE positions?

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Seymour J Metz]

> SDSF thinks it continues

What are you trying to say? Either it is one field or it is not. Where are the 
SF/SFE positions?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Charles Mills [charl...@mcn.org]
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 4:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

Tom Brennan's Vista conforms: if a field runs to the right edge of the screen 
and continues on the next line, then Ins mode pushes characters from one line 
to the next. I recall no relevant experience with any other emulators.

The problem with SDSF /+ is that its "Full Screen" is only 80 characters wide, 
so if your display is wide -- mine is 132 wide FWIW -- the field does not 
really continue. SDSF thinks it continues, and you know it continues, and I 
know it continues, but an emulator has no way of knowing.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 10:36 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 17:39:58 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
>"The INS MODE (3275/3277) or ~ (3276/3278/3279) key allows characters to be 
>inserted into a field, while all characters following the point of insertion 
>are shifted to the right."
>
>"If a field is a large one and covers more than one line, and if the situation 
>calls for it, during the insert operation, characters will shift from the end 
>of one line to the beginning of the next."
>
Clear enough.  Thanks.  Citation needed.

So Rob's terminal is nonconforming.  But if that's the modal behavior
among current emulators, it avails suppliers little to count on the
"standard" behavior.  Is it optional?

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Charles Mills]

Yes, I use Paste-by-Typing on that panel and it works as desired.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tom Brennan
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 3:23 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

I purposely don't say Vista emulates any particular real terminal, and 
there's no option to specify you want to look like a 3278 vs. a 3279 or 
whatever.  That helps keep me out of trouble when it comes to details 
like this :)

But in addition, I took some poetic-license with certain things that 
bothered me about a real terminal.  For example, I seem to remember some 
programs that would initially fill an input area with nulls, and if you 
moved the cursor out to the right and started typing, the host would 
remove the nulls abd scoot your typing to the left.  Not what I wanted, 
so there's a Vista option (on by default) that replaces those nulls to 
the left with real spaces.  I don't think that's involved with this 
problem though.

There's another option to convert nulls to blanks when sending them to 
the host (off by default), in case anybody needs that.  But that causes 
enough trouble that when you try to set that option in Vista, you get a 
warning window telling you that you probably don't want to do that.

I need to find Skip's original post and see if I can reproduce the error 
and perhaps understand it a bit better, or at least see if it could be 
an emulator issue or not.

I typically use an old PCOMM version I have to determine what a real 
terminal would do, since I'll probably never see another real one except 
at a museum.  My theory was the old PCOMM was programmed using logic 
obtained directly from the ROM in a real terminal, maybe even ported. 
So I would expect PCOMM to be the gold-standard when any questions come up.

If that SDSF screen is the one I'm thinking of, it's a couple of 
separate fields with a jump to the second line.  If you have a long 
command in your clipboard, you might try the PasteByTyping function 
which simulates typing each character and does the jump.  Menu: 
Edit/Paste-Functions/Paste-By-Typing.  But yeah, it might be a stretch 
to expect an emulator to do inserts and deletes as if it was one line.

Oops... Sorry.  Long post.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Tom Brennan]

I purposely don't say Vista emulates any particular real terminal, and 
there's no option to specify you want to look like a 3278 vs. a 3279 or 
whatever.  That helps keep me out of trouble when it comes to details 
like this :)


But in addition, I took some poetic-license with certain things that 
bothered me about a real terminal.  For example, I seem to remember some 
programs that would initially fill an input area with nulls, and if you 
moved the cursor out to the right and started typing, the host would 
remove the nulls abd scoot your typing to the left.  Not what I wanted, 
so there's a Vista option (on by default) that replaces those nulls to 
the left with real spaces.  I don't think that's involved with this 
problem though.


There's another option to convert nulls to blanks when sending them to 
the host (off by default), in case anybody needs that.  But that causes 
enough trouble that when you try to set that option in Vista, you get a 
warning window telling you that you probably don't want to do that.


I need to find Skip's original post and see if I can reproduce the error 
and perhaps understand it a bit better, or at least see if it could be 
an emulator issue or not.


I typically use an old PCOMM version I have to determine what a real 
terminal would do, since I'll probably never see another real one except 
at a museum.  My theory was the old PCOMM was programmed using logic 
obtained directly from the ROM in a real terminal, maybe even ported. 
So I would expect PCOMM to be the gold-standard when any questions come up.


If that SDSF screen is the one I'm thinking of, it's a couple of 
separate fields with a jump to the second line.  If you have a long 
command in your clipboard, you might try the PasteByTyping function 
which simulates typing each character and does the jump.  Menu: 
Edit/Paste-Functions/Paste-By-Typing.  But yeah, it might be a stretch 
to expect an emulator to do inserts and deletes as if it was one line.


Oops... Sorry.  Long post.

On 12/1/2020 1:50 PM, Charles Mills wrote:

Tom Brennan's Vista conforms: if a field runs to the right edge of the screen 
and continues on the next line, then Ins mode pushes characters from one line 
to the next. I recall no relevant experience with any other emulators.

The problem with SDSF /+ is that its "Full Screen" is only 80 characters wide, 
so if your display is wide -- mine is 132 wide FWIW -- the field does not really 
continue. SDSF thinks it continues, and you know it continues, and I know it continues, 
but an emulator has no way of knowing.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 10:36 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 17:39:58 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:


"The INS MODE (3275/3277) or ~ (3276/3278/3279) key allows characters to be inserted 
into a field, while all characters following the point of insertion are shifted to the 
right."

"If a field is a large one and covers more than one line, and if the situation calls 
for it, during the insert operation, characters will shift from the end of one line to 
the beginning of the next."


Clear enough.  Thanks.  Citation needed.

So Rob's terminal is nonconforming.  But if that's the modal behavior
among current emulators, it avails suppliers little to count on the
"standard" behavior.  Is it optional?

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Charles Mills]

Tom Brennan's Vista conforms: if a field runs to the right edge of the screen 
and continues on the next line, then Ins mode pushes characters from one line 
to the next. I recall no relevant experience with any other emulators.

The problem with SDSF /+ is that its "Full Screen" is only 80 characters wide, 
so if your display is wide -- mine is 132 wide FWIW -- the field does not 
really continue. SDSF thinks it continues, and you know it continues, and I 
know it continues, but an emulator has no way of knowing.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 10:36 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 17:39:58 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
>"The INS MODE (3275/3277) or ~ (3276/3278/3279) key allows characters to be 
>inserted into a field, while all characters following the point of insertion 
>are shifted to the right."  
>
>"If a field is a large one and covers more than one line, and if the situation 
>calls for it, during the insert operation, characters will shift from the end 
>of one line to the beginning of the next."
> 
Clear enough.  Thanks.  Citation needed.

So Rob's terminal is nonconforming.  But if that's the modal behavior
among current emulators, it avails suppliers little to count on the
"standard" behavior.  Is it optional?

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Seymour J Metz]

GA27-2742  for the second quote.

Entry Assist is all or nothing; if it's on then Ins mode causes inserted text 
to replace the blanks without shifting the non-blank text to the right. I don't 
recall whether it leaves a separating blank.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 1:36 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 17:39:58 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
>"The INS MODE (3275/3277) or ~ (3276/3278/3279) key allows characters to be 
>inserted into a field, while all characters following the point of insertion 
>are shifted to the right."
>
>"If a field is a large one and covers more than one line, and if the situation 
>calls for it, during the insert operation, characters will shift from the end 
>of one line to the beginning of the next."
>
Clear enough.  Thanks.  Citation needed.

So Rob's terminal is nonconforming.  But if that's the modal behavior
among current emulators, it avails suppliers little to count on the
"standard" behavior.  Is it optional?

>IBM had a ... sensible idea on some mode[l]s; if you enabled Entry Assist then 
>you could treat blanks as nulls for purposes of insert.
>
All blanks?  Trailing blanks?  Respect column alignment like ISPF Edit Change?

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 17:39:58 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
>"The INS MODE (3275/3277) or ~ (3276/3278/3279) key allows characters to be 
>inserted into a field, while all characters following the point of insertion 
>are shifted to the right."  
>
>"If a field is a large one and covers more than one line, and if the situation 
>calls for it, during the insert operation, characters will shift from the end 
>of one line to the beginning of the next."
> 
Clear enough.  Thanks.  Citation needed.

So Rob's terminal is nonconforming.  But if that's the modal behavior
among current emulators, it avails suppliers little to count on the
"standard" behavior.  Is it optional?

>IBM had a ... sensible idea on some mode[l]s; if you enabled Entry Assist then 
>you could treat blanks as nulls for purposes of insert.
>
All blanks?  Trailing blanks?  Respect column alignment like ISPF Edit Change?

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Seymour J Metz]

> Is a written specification available,

"The INS MODE (3275/3277) or ~ (3276/3278/3279) key allows characters to be 
inserted into a field, while all characters following the point of insertion 
are shifted to the right."  

"If a field is a large one and covers more than one line, and if the situation 
calls for it, during the insert operation, characters will shift from the end 
of one line to the beginning of the next."

> Does IBM market "a real 3270" nowadays?

I doubt it. But what do HOD and PCCOMM do?

> Many emulators replace NULs followed by a non-null charater (sic)
> with spaces in the transmitted data stream,

That's what I call a Molly Malone:

 She died of a faever
 From which none could save her

IBM had a more sensible idea on some modes; if you enabled Entry Assist then 
you could treat blanks as nulls for purposes of insert.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 11:40 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 11:34:54 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>Does anybody have a real 3270 they can test it on? FWIW, it works on TSPF, and 
>Tritus was extremely serious about compatability.
>
Is a written specification available, as opposed to empirical?
Does IBM market "a real 3270" nowadays?

Many emulators replace NULs followed by a non-null charater with
spaces in the transmitted data stream, claiming WYSIWIG as a
motivation.  This is often configurable in Settings.

At times I've relied on the original behavior.  To append characters
to a line it may be faster to "<-" around the right edge of the screen,
type there, and rely on collapse of the intervening NULs.

Long ago I used a 3270 lookalike, hardware, which optionally
displayed NULs visibly distinguished  from spaces.


>
>From: Rob Scott
>Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 3:50 AM
>
>I have just tested the ISRTSO (and ISRTSOA) panels in ISPF 7.2 and they both 
>fail the first issue (SKIP) when shown in a POPUP (this is expected).
>
>They both fail the second issue (INSERT/EOF) no matter if POPUP or not.

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 11:34:54 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>Does anybody have a real 3270 they can test it on? FWIW, it works on TSPF, and 
>Tritus was extremely serious about compatability.
>
Is a written specification available, as opposed to empirical?
Does IBM market "a real 3270" nowadays?

Many emulators replace NULs followed by a non-null charater with
spaces in the transmitted data stream, claiming WYSIWIG as a
motivation.  This is often configurable in Settings.

At times I've relied on the original behavior.  To append characters
to a line it may be faster to "<-" around the right edge of the screen,
type there, and rely on collapse of the intervening NULs.

Long ago I used a 3270 lookalike, hardware, which optionally
displayed NULs visibly distinguished  from spaces.


>
>From: Rob Scott 
>Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 3:50 AM
>
>I have just tested the ISRTSO (and ISRTSOA) panels in ISPF 7.2 and they both 
>fail the first issue (SKIP) when shown in a POPUP (this is expected).
>
>They both fail the second issue (INSERT/EOF) no matter if POPUP or not.

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Seymour J Metz]

Does anybody have a real 3270 they can test it on? FWIW, it works on TSPF, and 
Tritus was extremely serious about compatability.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Rob 
Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 3:50 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

I have just tested the ISRTSO (and ISRTSOA) panels in ISPF 7.2 and they both 
fail the first issue (SKIP) when shown in a POPUP (this is expected).

They both fail the second issue (INSERT/EOF) no matter if POPUP or not.

I think this leaves a wide-screen only solution the most likely method of 
solving this, which is not ideal but better than nothing.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: 30 November 2020 22:55
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL



On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 08:14:06 +1100, Attila Fogarasi wrote:

>SKIP(ON) is the ISPF panel field attribute that causes automatic skip to
>next field when the cursor reaches the end of a field (SKIP(OFF) is the
>default). I'm not 100% sure about your second question (insert spanning
>
Not needed.

>fields) but AFAIK insert is limited to a single field (it certainly was in
>the original hardware). Normally a scrollable area would be used instead
>of 2 fields when they are actually 1 field logically. Not sure that all
>3270 emulators work correctly with the fancier data streams (or rather,
>I've run into lots of problems doing this).
>
IBM seems determined to inconvenience users of wide screens. The
"ISPF Command Shell panel (ISRTSO)" (see illustration):
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.f54u200/chap9.htm<https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.f54u200/chap9.htm>

... provides a single field covering 3 lines on an 80-column screen so
insertion simply works up to the size of the field.

This answers Rob's concern; Yes, it's possible.

On a wider screen, the panel is formatted in a "pillarbox" (GIYF) and
insertion works only within a single line. When I ranted about this
(on ISPF-L?) experts advised me, "Oh you need ISRTSOA":
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.f54pc00/isppc115.htm<https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.f54pc00/isppc115.htm>

... Hmmm. Configuration option; not available to mere mortal users.
But I copied ISRTSOA into my private ISPPLIB and renamed it. All
better. ISPF 3.17 suffers a similar misdesign in its entry panel with
wide screens for a poor reason.


>On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 7:29 AM Rob Scott wrote:
>
>> In your example, assuming that the input field spans two lines :
>>
>> (1) When the user starts to type on the first line and gets to the end of
>> the input field in the line, is the input skipped to the next line?
>>
>> (2) If there is existing data on the second line and the user attempts to
>> insert data on the first line, does the data on the second line shift to
>> accommodate the inserted bytes.
>>
>> If both the above are satisfied, then I would doff my cap to you and
>> implement a solution based on that in the next release.

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> with 
the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ 
Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323
Contact Customer Support: 
https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport
Unsubscribe from Marketing Messages/Manage Your Subscription Preferences - 
http://www.rocketsoftware.com/manage-your-email-preferences
Privacy Policy - http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy


This communication and any attachments may contain confidential information of 
Rocket Software, Inc. All unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify Rocket 
Software immediately and destroy all copies of this communication. Thank you.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Rob Scott]

I have just tested the ISRTSO (and ISRTSOA) panels in ISPF 7.2 and they both 
fail the first issue (SKIP) when shown in a POPUP (this is expected).

They both fail the second issue (INSERT/EOF) no matter if POPUP or not.

I think this leaves a wide-screen only solution the most likely method of 
solving this, which is not ideal but better than nothing.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: 30 November 2020 22:55
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL



On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 08:14:06 +1100, Attila Fogarasi wrote:

>SKIP(ON) is the ISPF panel field attribute that causes automatic skip to
>next field when the cursor reaches the end of a field (SKIP(OFF) is the
>default). I'm not 100% sure about your second question (insert spanning
>
Not needed.

>fields) but AFAIK insert is limited to a single field (it certainly was in
>the original hardware). Normally a scrollable area would be used instead
>of 2 fields when they are actually 1 field logically. Not sure that all
>3270 emulators work correctly with the fancier data streams (or rather,
>I've run into lots of problems doing this).
>
IBM seems determined to inconvenience users of wide screens. The
"ISPF Command Shell panel (ISRTSO)" (see illustration):
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.f54u200/chap9.htm<https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.f54u200/chap9.htm>

... provides a single field covering 3 lines on an 80-column screen so
insertion simply works up to the size of the field.

This answers Rob's concern; Yes, it's possible.

On a wider screen, the panel is formatted in a "pillarbox" (GIYF) and
insertion works only within a single line. When I ranted about this
(on ISPF-L?) experts advised me, "Oh you need ISRTSOA":
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.f54pc00/isppc115.htm<https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.f54pc00/isppc115.htm>

... Hmmm. Configuration option; not available to mere mortal users.
But I copied ISRTSOA into my private ISPPLIB and renamed it. All
better. ISPF 3.17 suffers a similar misdesign in its entry panel with
wide screens for a poor reason.


>On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 7:29 AM Rob Scott wrote:
>
>> In your example, assuming that the input field spans two lines :
>>
>> (1) When the user starts to type on the first line and gets to the end of
>> the input field in the line, is the input skipped to the next line?
>>
>> (2) If there is existing data on the second line and the user attempts to
>> insert data on the first line, does the data on the second line shift to
>> accommodate the inserted bytes.
>>
>> If both the above are satisfied, then I would doff my cap to you and
>> implement a solution based on that in the next release.

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> with 
the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ 
Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323
Contact Customer Support: 
https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport
Unsubscribe from Marketing Messages/Manage Your Subscription Preferences - 
http://www.rocketsoftware.com/manage-your-email-preferences
Privacy Policy - http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy


This communication and any attachments may contain confidential information of 
Rocket Software, Inc. All unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify Rocket 
Software immediately and destroy all copies of this communication. Thank you.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 23:03:25 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>It's not just IBM that has never heard of orthogonality.
>
Ah!  meta-orthogonality!

FOSS is somewhat immune.  Requesters needn't provide a
revenue justification because revenue is not a concern.

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Seymour J Metz]

It's not just IBM that has never heard of orthogonality.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 5:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 08:14:06 +1100, Attila Fogarasi  wrote:

>SKIP(ON) is the ISPF panel field attribute that causes automatic skip to
>next field when the cursor reaches the end of a field (SKIP(OFF) is the
>default).  I'm not 100% sure about your second question (insert spanning
>
Not needed.

>fields) but AFAIK insert is limited to a single field (it certainly was in
>the original hardware).  Normally a scrollable area would be used instead
>of 2 fields when they are actually 1 field logically.  Not sure that all
>3270 emulators work correctly with the fancier data streams (or rather,
>I've run into lots of problems doing this).
>
IBM seems determined to inconvenience users of wide screens.  The
"ISPF Command Shell panel (ISRTSO)" (see illustration):

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.f54u200/chap9.htm

... provides a single field covering 3 lines on an 80-column screen so
insertion simply works up to the size of the field.

This answers Rob's concern; Yes, it's possible.

On a wider screen, the panel is formatted in a "pillarbox" (GIYF) and
insertion works only within a single line.  When I ranted about this
(on ISPF-L?) experts advised me, "Oh you need ISRTSOA":

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.f54pc00/isppc115.htm

...  Hmmm.  Configuration option; not available to mere mortal users.
But I copied ISRTSOA into my private ISPPLIB and renamed it.  All
better.  ISPF 3.17 suffers a similar misdesign in its entry panel with
wide screens for a poor reason.


>On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 7:29 AM Rob Scott wrote:
>
>> In your example, assuming that the input field spans two lines :
>>
>> (1) When the user starts to type on the first line and gets to the end of
>> the input field in the line, is the input skipped to the next line?
>>
>> (2) If there is existing data on the second line and the user attempts to
>> insert data on the first line, does the data on the second line shift to
>> accommodate the inserted bytes.
>>
>> If both the above are satisfied, then I would doff my cap to you and
>> implement a solution based on that in the next release.

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 08:14:06 +1100, Attila Fogarasi  wrote:

>SKIP(ON) is the ISPF panel field attribute that causes automatic skip to
>next field when the cursor reaches the end of a field (SKIP(OFF) is the
>default).  I'm not 100% sure about your second question (insert spanning
>
Not needed.

>fields) but AFAIK insert is limited to a single field (it certainly was in
>the original hardware).  Normally a scrollable area would be used instead
>of 2 fields when they are actually 1 field logically.  Not sure that all
>3270 emulators work correctly with the fancier data streams (or rather,
>I've run into lots of problems doing this).
>
IBM seems determined to inconvenience users of wide screens.  The
"ISPF Command Shell panel (ISRTSO)" (see illustration):

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.f54u200/chap9.htm

... provides a single field covering 3 lines on an 80-column screen so
insertion simply works up to the size of the field.

This answers Rob's concern; Yes, it's possible.

On a wider screen, the panel is formatted in a "pillarbox" (GIYF) and
insertion works only within a single line.  When I ranted about this
(on ISPF-L?) experts advised me, "Oh you need ISRTSOA":

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.f54pc00/isppc115.htm

...  Hmmm.  Configuration option; not available to mere mortal users.
But I copied ISRTSOA into my private ISPPLIB and renamed it.  All
better.  ISPF 3.17 suffers a similar misdesign in its entry panel with
wide screens for a poor reason.


>On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 7:29 AM Rob Scott wrote:
>
>> In your example, assuming that the input field spans two lines :
>>
>> (1) When the user starts to type on the first line and gets to the end of
>> the input field in the line, is the input skipped to the next line?
>>
>> (2) If there is existing data on the second line and the user attempts to
>> insert data on the first line, does the data on the second line shift to
>> accommodate the inserted bytes.
>>
>> If both the above are satisfied, then I would doff my cap to you and
>> implement a solution based on that in the next release.

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Seymour J Metz]

Except for the handling of the New Line order, the end of a line has no 
significance to a 3270 data stream. If the field extends into another line and 
you type into the last character of the first line, then you advance to the 
first character of the next line. Similarly, if a field has trailing nulls or 
equivalent, then insert will work beyond the end of the first line. You can 
test this on the option 6 panel.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Rob 
Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 3:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

In your example, assuming that the input field spans two lines :

(1) When the user starts to type on the first line and gets to the end of the 
input field in the line, is the input skipped to the next line?

(2) If there is existing data on the second line and the user attempts to 
insert data on the first line, does the data on the second line shift to 
accommodate the inserted bytes.

If both the above are satisfied, then I would doff my cap to you and implement 
a solution based on that in the next release.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software

On 30 Nov 2020 6:31 pm, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
EXTERNAL EMAIL




I don't understand. If you have an SFE in the middle of line n and the next 
SF/SFE is at the end of line n+1, what insert issue exists? Or do you have 
another field at the end of line n, e.g.,

)ATTR DEFAULT(%+])
^ TYPE(INPUT) CAPS(OFF) INTENS(HIGH) MAXLEN(120)
! TYPE(OUTPUT) INTENS(HIGH)
)BODY EXPAND(\\)
%BROWSE ───%&ZH \─\%LINE!ZLINE %COL!ZCL !ZCR %
%COMMAND ═══>^ZCMD \ \ %SCROLL ═══>]ZSCR%

If you move the command field to the end of the line then you can make it 
several lines long with no problem.



--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3<http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3>


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Rob 
Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 1:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

>> How about a panel that has a single field across two lines? That's bog 
>> standard.

The insert mode issue still persists. We have tried using ZEXPAND but that does 
not solve the problem either.

As for 43x80 being archaic, we still have LOTS of customers still using 24x80 !

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: 30 November 2020 16:39
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL



> The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
> there is a solution to that
> apart from a wide screen panel that has a single input field.

How about a panel that has a single field across two lines? That's bog standard.

> This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 3270 modes and 
> most of our users are 43x80.

I never considered 132 to be wide since the advent of the 3290. You have to 
accommodate them if your users are still in the 19th century, but 43x80 sounds 
so archaic.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3<http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3><http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3<http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3>>


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Rob 
Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

A few notes about this issue.

(1) The reason that "skip" does not work on the POPUP panel is down to the 
interplay between the ISPF attributes and the escape characters used to draw 
the window.
(2) The original developer workaround for (1) was the ability to switch to a 
panel using PF5 to remove the POPUP window and that enables "skip" to work.
(3) Automatically stripping trailing blanks from the first line would require 
SDSF to have knowledge of the syntax of the command or some sort of awareness 
of whether quotes or double-quotes are in effect and unbounded and if so, is 
this meaningful or not. This is not something that SDSF wants to get involved 
in as the text is freeform and what might appear to be apparent strange values 
may be expected by the receiving user or ISV software product that processes 
the command.

The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
there is a solution to that apart from a wide screen panel that has a single 
input field. This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 3270 
modes and most of our users are 43x80.

Rob Scott
Rocket Soft

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Attila Fogarasi]

SKIP(ON) is the ISPF panel field attribute that causes automatic skip to
next field when the cursor reaches the end of a field (SKIP(OFF) is the
default).  I'm not 100% sure about your second question (insert spanning
fields) but AFAIK insert is limited to a single field (it certainly was in
the original hardware).  Normally a scrollable area would be used instead
of 2 fields when they are actually 1 field logically.  Not sure that all
3270 emulators work correctly with the fancier data streams (or rather,
I've run into lots of problems doing this).

On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 7:29 AM Rob Scott  wrote:

> In your example, assuming that the input field spans two lines :
>
> (1) When the user starts to type on the first line and gets to the end of
> the input field in the line, is the input skipped to the next line?
>
> (2) If there is existing data on the second line and the user attempts to
> insert data on the first line, does the data on the second line shift to
> accommodate the inserted bytes.
>
> If both the above are satisfied, then I would doff my cap to you and
> implement a solution based on that in the next release.
>
> Rob Scott
> Rocket Software
>
> On 30 Nov 2020 6:31 pm, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
> EXTERNAL EMAIL
>
>
>
>
> I don't understand. If you have an SFE in the middle of line n and the
> next SF/SFE is at the end of line n+1, what insert issue exists? Or do you
> have another field at the end of line n, e.g.,
>
> )ATTR DEFAULT(%+])
> ^ TYPE(INPUT) CAPS(OFF) INTENS(HIGH) MAXLEN(120)
> ! TYPE(OUTPUT) INTENS(HIGH)
> )BODY EXPAND(\\)
> %BROWSE ───%&ZH \─\%LINE!ZLINE %COL!ZCL !ZCR %
> %COMMAND ═══>^ZCMD \ \ %SCROLL ═══>]ZSCR%
>
> If you move the command field to the end of the line then you can make it
> several lines long with no problem.
>
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3<http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf
> of Rob Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 1:10 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command
>
> >> How about a panel that has a single field across two lines? That's bog
> standard.
>
> The insert mode issue still persists. We have tried using ZEXPAND but that
> does not solve the problem either.
>
> As for 43x80 being archaic, we still have LOTS of customers still using
> 24x80 !
>
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Seymour J Metz
> Sent: 30 November 2020 16:39
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command
>
> EXTERNAL EMAIL
>
>
>
> > The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not
> sure there is a solution to that
> > apart from a wide screen panel that has a single input field.
>
> How about a panel that has a single field across two lines? That's bog
> standard.
>
> > This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 3270 modes
> and most of our users are 43x80.
>
> I never considered 132 to be wide since the advent of the 3290. You have
> to accommodate them if your users are still in the 19th century, but 43x80
> sounds so archaic.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3<http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3><
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3<http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3>>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf
> of Rob Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:10 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
> Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command
>
> A few notes about this issue.
>
> (1) The reason that "skip" does not work on the POPUP panel is down to the
> interplay between the ISPF attributes and the escape characters used to
> draw the window.
> (2) The original developer workaround for (1) was the ability to switch to
> a panel using PF5 to remove the POPUP window and that enables "skip" to
> work.
> (3) Automatically stripping trailing blanks from the first line would
> require SDSF to have knowledge of the syntax of the command or some sort of
> awareness of whether quotes or double-quotes are in effect and unbounded
> and if so, is this meaningful or not. This is not something that SDSF wants
> to get involved in as the text is freeform and what might appear to be
> apparent strange values may be expected by the receiving user or ISV
> software product that pro

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Rob Scott]

In your example, assuming that the input field spans two lines :

(1) When the user starts to type on the first line and gets to the end of the 
input field in the line, is the input skipped to the next line?

(2) If there is existing data on the second line and the user attempts to 
insert data on the first line, does the data on the second line shift to 
accommodate the inserted bytes.

If both the above are satisfied, then I would doff my cap to you and implement 
a solution based on that in the next release.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software

On 30 Nov 2020 6:31 pm, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
EXTERNAL EMAIL




I don't understand. If you have an SFE in the middle of line n and the next 
SF/SFE is at the end of line n+1, what insert issue exists? Or do you have 
another field at the end of line n, e.g.,

)ATTR DEFAULT(%+])
^ TYPE(INPUT) CAPS(OFF) INTENS(HIGH) MAXLEN(120)
! TYPE(OUTPUT) INTENS(HIGH)
)BODY EXPAND(\\)
%BROWSE ───%&ZH \─\%LINE!ZLINE %COL!ZCL !ZCR %
%COMMAND ═══>^ZCMD \ \ %SCROLL ═══>]ZSCR%

If you move the command field to the end of the line then you can make it 
several lines long with no problem.



--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3<http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3>


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Rob 
Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 1:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

>> How about a panel that has a single field across two lines? That's bog 
>> standard.

The insert mode issue still persists. We have tried using ZEXPAND but that does 
not solve the problem either.

As for 43x80 being archaic, we still have LOTS of customers still using 24x80 !

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: 30 November 2020 16:39
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL



> The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
> there is a solution to that
> apart from a wide screen panel that has a single input field.

How about a panel that has a single field across two lines? That's bog standard.

> This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 3270 modes and 
> most of our users are 43x80.

I never considered 132 to be wide since the advent of the 3290. You have to 
accommodate them if your users are still in the 19th century, but 43x80 sounds 
so archaic.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3<http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3><http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3<http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3>>


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Rob 
Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

A few notes about this issue.

(1) The reason that "skip" does not work on the POPUP panel is down to the 
interplay between the ISPF attributes and the escape characters used to draw 
the window.
(2) The original developer workaround for (1) was the ability to switch to a 
panel using PF5 to remove the POPUP window and that enables "skip" to work.
(3) Automatically stripping trailing blanks from the first line would require 
SDSF to have knowledge of the syntax of the command or some sort of awareness 
of whether quotes or double-quotes are in effect and unbounded and if so, is 
this meaningful or not. This is not something that SDSF wants to get involved 
in as the text is freeform and what might appear to be apparent strange values 
may be expected by the receiving user or ISV software product that processes 
the command.

The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
there is a solution to that apart from a wide screen panel that has a single 
input field. This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 3270 
modes and most of our users are 43x80.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> On Behalf Of Paul 
Gilmartin
Sent: 29 November 2020 18:17
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL





On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 17:59:14 +, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
> ...
>EOF does not work because the two line buffers appear not be connected.
>
If it doesn't work, it's cause for SR. inserting characters you didn't type, 
whether "" or "CRAP" is a data integrity violation. If it's WAD, it should 
go to RFE.

(Sometimes the offender 

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Seymour J Metz]

I don't understand. If you have an SFE in the middle of line n and the next 
SF/SFE is at the end of line n+1, what insert issue exists? Or do you have 
another field at the end of line n, e.g.,

 )ATTR DEFAULT(%+])
   ^  TYPE(INPUT) CAPS(OFF) INTENS(HIGH) MAXLEN(120)
   !  TYPE(OUTPUT) INTENS(HIGH)
 )BODY EXPAND(\\)
 %BROWSE ───%&ZH \─\%LINE!ZLINE %COL!ZCL  !ZCR  %
 %COMMAND ═══>^ZCMD \ \ %SCROLL ═══>]ZSCR%

If you move the command field to the end of the line then you can make it 
several lines long with no problem.



--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Rob 
Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 1:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

>> How about a panel that has a single field across two lines? That's bog 
>> standard.

The insert mode issue still persists. We have tried using ZEXPAND but that does 
not solve the problem either.

As for 43x80 being archaic, we still have LOTS of customers still using 24x80 !

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: 30 November 2020 16:39
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL



> The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
> there is a solution to that
> apart from a wide screen panel that has a single input field.

How about a panel that has a single field across two lines? That's bog standard.

> This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 3270 modes and 
> most of our users are 43x80.

I never considered 132 to be wide since the advent of the 3290. You have to 
accommodate them if your users are still in the 19th century, but 43x80 sounds 
so archaic.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3<http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3>


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Rob 
Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

A few notes about this issue.

(1) The reason that "skip" does not work on the POPUP panel is down to the 
interplay between the ISPF attributes and the escape characters used to draw 
the window.
(2) The original developer workaround for (1) was the ability to switch to a 
panel using PF5 to remove the POPUP window and that enables "skip" to work.
(3) Automatically stripping trailing blanks from the first line would require 
SDSF to have knowledge of the syntax of the command or some sort of awareness 
of whether quotes or double-quotes are in effect and unbounded and if so, is 
this meaningful or not. This is not something that SDSF wants to get involved 
in as the text is freeform and what might appear to be apparent strange values 
may be expected by the receiving user or ISV software product that processes 
the command.

The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
there is a solution to that apart from a wide screen panel that has a single 
input field. This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 3270 
modes and most of our users are 43x80.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> On Behalf Of Paul 
Gilmartin
Sent: 29 November 2020 18:17
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL





On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 17:59:14 +, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
> ...
>EOF does not work because the two line buffers appear not be connected.
>
If it doesn't work, it's cause for SR. inserting characters you didn't type, 
whether "" or "CRAP" is a data integrity violation. If it's WAD, it should 
go to RFE.

(Sometimes the offender is a faithless 3270 emulator.)

(I'm most comfortable on systems where blanks aren't treated so specially.)

>Inserting blanks up front might work. Kind of a pain. But thanks!

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> with the message: 
INFO IBM-MAIN


Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ 
Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323
Contact Customer Support: 
https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport<https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport>
Unsubscribe fr

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:47:06 +, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

>I considered the effect of trailing blanks and had my colleague check for 
>nulls or blanks in ISPF Option 0.
>
>General 
>  Input field pad . . N 
>  Command delimiter . ;
>
>Even after changing from blank to nlll, his SDSF fill character appeared to be 
>blank. 
> 
Does N mean NULLS ALL or NULLS STD?

That feels like a half-hearted implementation of NULLS.  Does INSERT work?
If so, then some downstream component assumes, "Oh, the user entered
fewer characters than I expect.  I'll just fill the rest with blanks."

Lazier than passing a length descriptor.  A null-terminated string would be
a benign (in this case) alternative.

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Rob Scott]

>> How about a panel that has a single field across two lines? That's bog 
>> standard.

The insert mode issue still persists. We have tried using ZEXPAND but that does 
not solve the problem either.

As for 43x80 being archaic, we still have LOTS of customers still using 24x80 !

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: 30 November 2020 16:39
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL



> The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
> there is a solution to that
> apart from a wide screen panel that has a single input field.

How about a panel that has a single field across two lines? That's bog standard.

> This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 3270 modes and 
> most of our users are 43x80.

I never considered 132 to be wide since the advent of the 3290. You have to 
accommodate them if your users are still in the 19th century, but 43x80 sounds 
so archaic.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3<http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3>


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Rob 
Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

A few notes about this issue.

(1) The reason that "skip" does not work on the POPUP panel is down to the 
interplay between the ISPF attributes and the escape characters used to draw 
the window.
(2) The original developer workaround for (1) was the ability to switch to a 
panel using PF5 to remove the POPUP window and that enables "skip" to work.
(3) Automatically stripping trailing blanks from the first line would require 
SDSF to have knowledge of the syntax of the command or some sort of awareness 
of whether quotes or double-quotes are in effect and unbounded and if so, is 
this meaningful or not. This is not something that SDSF wants to get involved 
in as the text is freeform and what might appear to be apparent strange values 
may be expected by the receiving user or ISV software product that processes 
the command.

The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
there is a solution to that apart from a wide screen panel that has a single 
input field. This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 3270 
modes and most of our users are 43x80.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> On Behalf Of Paul 
Gilmartin
Sent: 29 November 2020 18:17
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL





On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 17:59:14 +, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
> ...
>EOF does not work because the two line buffers appear not be connected.
>
If it doesn't work, it's cause for SR. inserting characters you didn't type, 
whether "" or "CRAP" is a data integrity violation. If it's WAD, it should 
go to RFE.

(Sometimes the offender is a faithless 3270 emulator.)

(I'm most comfortable on systems where blanks aren't treated so specially.)

>Inserting blanks up front might work. Kind of a pain. But thanks!

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> with the message: 
INFO IBM-MAIN


Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ 
Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323
Contact Customer Support: 
https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport<https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport>
Unsubscribe from Marketing Messages/Manage Your Subscription Preferences - 
http://www.rocketsoftware.com/manage-your-email-preferences<http://www.rocketsoftware.com/manage-your-email-preferences>
Privacy Policy - 
http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy<http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy>


This communication and any attachments may contain confidential information of 
Rocket Software, Inc. All unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify Rocket 
Software immediately and destroy all copies of this communication. Thank you.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 17:39:33 +, Jeremy Nicoll wrote:
>On Mon, 30 Nov 2020, at 17:29, Rob Scott wrote:
>
>> This may well be different in raw 3270 datasteam (I have very limited
>> exposure to that) , however interactive use of SDSF on z/OS is mainly
>> via ISPF.
>
>Is it still possible to run SDSF in batch, with commands provided via an
>ISFIN dd statement?   If so, does that presume card images?
>
I've run SDSF in batch under IKJEFT01 and interactively.  My only
uses of ISPF were
address ISPEXEC 'vget ( ZSEQ ) shared'
and
   address 'ISPEXEC' 'VGET (ZSCREENI) SHARED'

and under OMVS.  In all cases I relied largely on Rexx address 'SDSF'
When ISPF was unavailable I used an alternative path with slightly
restricted function.

I issued no operator commands.

I find "address SDSF" simpler than ISFIN.

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Rob Scott]

When you run SDSF in batch it assumes card images and the functionality is VERY 
limited.

SDSF batch was stabilized many years ago and we now strongly suggest that users 
adopt SDSF REXX.

You can use the ISFSLASH function in SDSF REXX to issue operator commands.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jeremy Nicoll
Sent: 30 November 2020 17:40
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL





On Mon, 30 Nov 2020, at 17:29, Rob Scott wrote:

> This may well be different in raw 3270 datasteam (I have very limited
> exposure to that) , however interactive use of SDSF on z/OS is mainly
> via ISPF.

Is it still possible to run SDSF in batch, with commands provided via an
ISFIN dd statement?   If so, does that presume card images?

--
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ 
Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323
Contact Customer Support: 
https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport
Unsubscribe from Marketing Messages/Manage Your Subscription Preferences - 
http://www.rocketsoftware.com/manage-your-email-preferences
Privacy Policy - http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy


This communication and any attachments may contain confidential information of 
Rocket Software, Inc. All unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify Rocket 
Software immediately and destroy all copies of this communication. Thank you.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

I considered the effect of trailing blanks and had my colleague check for nulls 
or blanks in ISPF Option 0.

General 
  Input field pad . . N 
  Command delimiter . ;

Even after changing from blank to null, his SDSF fill character appeared to be 
blank. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Rob 
Scott
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 9:30 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

>> No!  Don't think of "stripping trailing blanks".  Simply don't append 
>> blanks when the input field contained NULs (which the 3270 protocol 
>> doesn't transmit to the host.  Some emulators deviate from this.)

When a user EOFs part of the line and presses enter, the ISPF application gets 
the variable value padded to the RHS with whatever the ISFP ATTR PAD() keyword 
states or defaults to.

In SDSF's case this is blanks so we have to treat the data from the first line 
as having "trailing blanks" as we cannot determine if EOF was used or the user 
just overtyped the line with blanks.

This may well be different in raw 3270 datasteam (I have very limited exposure 
to that) , however interactive use of SDSF on z/OS is mainly via ISPF.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: 30 November 2020 16:23
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL





On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 16:10:51 +, Rob Scott wrote:
>
>(3) Automatically stripping trailing blanks from the first line would require 
>SDSF to have knowledge of the syntax of the command or some sort of awareness 
>of whether quotes or double-quotes are in effect and unbounded and if so, is 
>this meaningful or not. This is not something that SDSF wants to get involved 
>in as the text is freeform and what might appear to be apparent strange values 
>may be expected by the receiving user or ISV software product that processes 
>the command.
>
No!  Don't think of "stripping trailing blanks".  Simply don't append blanks 
when the input field contained NULs (which the 3270 protocol doesn't transmit 
to the host.  Some emulators deviate from this.)

>The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
>there is a solution to that apart from a wide screen panel that has a single 
>input field. This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 
>3270 modes and most of our users are 43x80.
>
A field needn't be restricted to a single line.  Those two lines should be 
formatted as a single field.

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Jeremy Nicoll]

On Mon, 30 Nov 2020, at 17:29, Rob Scott wrote:

> This may well be different in raw 3270 datasteam (I have very limited 
> exposure to that) , however interactive use of SDSF on z/OS is mainly 
> via ISPF.

Is it still possible to run SDSF in batch, with commands provided via an
ISFIN dd statement?   If so, does that presume card images?

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Rob Scott]

>> No!  Don't think of "stripping trailing blanks".  Simply don't append blanks 
>> when the input field contained NULs (which the 3270 protocol doesn't 
>> transmit to the host.  Some emulators deviate from this.)

When a user EOFs part of the line and presses enter, the ISPF application gets 
the variable value padded to the RHS with whatever the ISFP ATTR PAD() keyword 
states or defaults to.

In SDSF's case this is blanks so we have to treat the data from the first line 
as having "trailing blanks" as we cannot determine if EOF was used or the user 
just overtyped the line with blanks.

This may well be different in raw 3270 datasteam (I have very limited exposure 
to that) , however interactive use of SDSF on z/OS is mainly via ISPF.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: 30 November 2020 16:23
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL





On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 16:10:51 +, Rob Scott wrote:
>
>(3) Automatically stripping trailing blanks from the first line would require 
>SDSF to have knowledge of the syntax of the command or some sort of awareness 
>of whether quotes or double-quotes are in effect and unbounded and if so, is 
>this meaningful or not. This is not something that SDSF wants to get involved 
>in as the text is freeform and what might appear to be apparent strange values 
>may be expected by the receiving user or ISV software product that processes 
>the command.
>
No!  Don't think of "stripping trailing blanks".  Simply don't append blanks 
when the input field contained NULs (which the 3270 protocol doesn't transmit 
to the host.  Some emulators deviate from this.)

>The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
>there is a solution to that apart from a wide screen panel that has a single 
>input field. This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 
>3270 modes and most of our users are 43x80.
>
A field needn't be restricted to a single line.  Those two lines should be 
formatted as a single field.

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ 
Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323
Contact Customer Support: 
https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport
Unsubscribe from Marketing Messages/Manage Your Subscription Preferences - 
http://www.rocketsoftware.com/manage-your-email-preferences
Privacy Policy - http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy


This communication and any attachments may contain confidential information of 
Rocket Software, Inc. All unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify Rocket 
Software immediately and destroy all copies of this communication. Thank you.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Seymour J Metz]

> The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
> there is a solution to that 
> apart from a wide screen panel that has a single input field. 

How about a panel that has a single field across two lines? That's bog standard.

> This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 3270 modes and 
> most of our users are 43x80.

I never considered 132 to be wide since the advent of the 3290. You have to 
accommodate them if your users are still in the 19th century, but 43x80 sounds 
so archaic.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Rob 
Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

A few notes about this issue.

(1) The reason that "skip" does not work on the POPUP panel is down to the 
interplay between the ISPF attributes and the escape characters used to draw 
the window.
(2) The original developer workaround for (1) was the ability to switch to a 
panel using PF5 to remove the POPUP window and that enables "skip" to work.
(3) Automatically stripping trailing blanks from the first line would require 
SDSF to have knowledge of the syntax of the command or some sort of awareness 
of whether quotes or double-quotes are in effect and unbounded and if so, is 
this meaningful or not. This is not something that SDSF wants to get involved 
in as the text is freeform and what might appear to be apparent strange values 
may be expected by the receiving user or ISV software product that processes 
the command.

The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
there is a solution to that apart from a wide screen panel that has a single 
input field. This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 3270 
modes and most of our users are 43x80.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: 29 November 2020 18:17
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL





On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 17:59:14 +, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
>...
>EOF does not work because the two line buffers appear not be connected.
>
If it doesn't work, it's cause for SR.  inserting characters you didn't type, 
whether "" or "CRAP" is a data integrity violation.  If it's WAD, it should 
go to RFE.

(Sometimes the offender is a faithless 3270 emulator.)

(I'm most comfortable on systems where blanks aren't treated so specially.)

>Inserting blanks up front might work. Kind of a pain. But thanks!

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ 
Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323
Contact Customer Support: 
https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport
Unsubscribe from Marketing Messages/Manage Your Subscription Preferences - 
http://www.rocketsoftware.com/manage-your-email-preferences
Privacy Policy - http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy


This communication and any attachments may contain confidential information of 
Rocket Software, Inc. All unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify Rocket 
Software immediately and destroy all copies of this communication. Thank you.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 16:10:51 +, Rob Scott wrote:
>
>(3) Automatically stripping trailing blanks from the first line would require 
>SDSF to have knowledge of the syntax of the command or some sort of awareness 
>of whether quotes or double-quotes are in effect and unbounded and if so, is 
>this meaningful or not. This is not something that SDSF wants to get involved 
>in as the text is freeform and what might appear to be apparent strange values 
>may be expected by the receiving user or ISV software product that processes 
>the command.
>
No!  Don't think of "stripping trailing blanks".  Simply don't append blanks 
when
the input field contained NULs (which the 3270 protocol doesn't transmit to the
host.  Some emulators deviate from this.)

>The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
>there is a solution to that apart from a wide screen panel that has a single 
>input field. This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 
>3270 modes and most of our users are 43x80.
>
A field needn't be restricted to a single line.  Those two lines should be
formatted as a single field.

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Rob Scott]

A few notes about this issue.

(1) The reason that "skip" does not work on the POPUP panel is down to the 
interplay between the ISPF attributes and the escape characters used to draw 
the window.
(2) The original developer workaround for (1) was the ability to switch to a 
panel using PF5 to remove the POPUP window and that enables "skip" to work.
(3) Automatically stripping trailing blanks from the first line would require 
SDSF to have knowledge of the syntax of the command or some sort of awareness 
of whether quotes or double-quotes are in effect and unbounded and if so, is 
this meaningful or not. This is not something that SDSF wants to get involved 
in as the text is freeform and what might appear to be apparent strange values 
may be expected by the receiving user or ISV software product that processes 
the command.

The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
there is a solution to that apart from a wide screen panel that has a single 
input field. This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 3270 
modes and most of our users are 43x80.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: 29 November 2020 18:17
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL





On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 17:59:14 +, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
>...
>EOF does not work because the two line buffers appear not be connected.
>
If it doesn't work, it's cause for SR.  inserting characters you didn't type, 
whether "" or "CRAP" is a data integrity violation.  If it's WAD, it should 
go to RFE.

(Sometimes the offender is a faithless 3270 emulator.)

(I'm most comfortable on systems where blanks aren't treated so specially.)

>Inserting blanks up front might work. Kind of a pain. But thanks!

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ 
Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323
Contact Customer Support: 
https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport
Unsubscribe from Marketing Messages/Manage Your Subscription Preferences - 
http://www.rocketsoftware.com/manage-your-email-preferences
Privacy Policy - http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy


This communication and any attachments may contain confidential information of 
Rocket Software, Inc. All unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify Rocket 
Software immediately and destroy all copies of this communication. Thank you.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 07:51:15 -0600, Jeffrey Holst wrote:

>If you press PF1 to get the help for this panel, you will see that this is 
>working exactly as described there. As someone else discussed, PF5 will get 
>you to a screen where you can type your command in one continuous stream.
> 
All too characteristic of IBM: Document a defect and pretend it's WAD.

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Jeffrey Holst]

If you press PF1 to get the help for this panel, you will see that this is 
working exactly as described there. As someone else discussed, PF5 will get you 
to a screen where you can type your command in one continuous stream.

Someone noted that the SLIP command is "quirky." Perhaps so, but only because 
the command can at times exceed the 126 character limit for a command line 
imposed by the operating system. (See MVS System Commands Reference.)

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Jousma, David]

My experience is that it has always been that way.  I've always had to fill the 
first line completely,  and continue on next line.   Takes some creative 
cut/paste.   What you suggest would be a nice improvement,  but IMO nothing is 
broke.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Jesse 1 Robinson 
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 12:23:56 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

**CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL**

**DO NOT open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or unexpected 
emails**

We were instructed by a vendor to set a two line SLIP trap for a problem 
affecting their product. My colleague used the SDSF command facility (/+) to 
enter the command. Working together, we could not get it to work because 
trailing blanks on the first line were passed to MVS, breaking the command. 
Here's the command. (? Is a single character wildcard.)

|   System Command Extension|
|   |
| ===> SL SET,A=SVCD,ID=SKIP,C=522,J=CSSW?L01,JL=(CSSW?L01,OPERTUNE,|
| ===> DB04MSTR),SDATA=(RGN,CSA,TRT),END|
|   |

The four blanks () went to MVS and caused a break in the SLIP command so 
that everything after 'OPERTUNE' was apparently treated as a comment. We played 
with this for some time but could not get rid of the blanks. We eventually 
found  a different way to enter the command, but I'd like to know if we're 
missing something. Pored over online doc but could not see anything relevant.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <= NEW
robin...@sce.com


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
**CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL**

**DO NOT open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or unexpected 
emails**



${If.App.WXP}Classification: Internal Use${If.End}
This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be 
privileged.
It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this 
e-mail in error,
please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner.  If you are not the 
intended 
recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this 
information
is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender 
that the 
message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer 
system. Your 
assistance in correcting this error is appreciated.




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[David Spiegel]

Hi Skip,
That's what I figured (i.e. Copy and Paste from Windows/Linux).
The blanks are a result of taking your text cross-platform.
One last thing ... Why do you bring up the panle with "/+"?
("/" alone is good enough)

Regards,
David

On 2020-11-29 14:03, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

I'll have to give this a try. What I did not mention in the original post was 
that we 'edited' this complicated command in a text file and then copy/pasted 
it into the command screen. Also did not reveal that the way we got it to work 
was to enter it as a subcommand to TSO OPER. That was quite trip around the 
block for what should have been a few steps.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Spiegel
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 10:34 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

Hi Skip,
Here is what my panel looks like:|
   EsssN
   e   Edit  Options Help e
   e  e
   e   System Command ExtensionEnd of data e
   e e
   e ===> SL SET,A=SVCD,ID=SKIP,C=522,J=CSSW?L01,JL=(CSSW?L01,OPERTUNE,DB  e
   e ===> 04MSTR),SDATA=(RGN,CSA,TRT),END e
   e e

I just kept typing and the text wrapped to the second line.
BTW, the command worked.

Regards,
David


On 2020-11-29 12:52, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

2) might work, but it doesn't explain the blank problem. 1) does not work 
because the two lines of SDSF command are not actually a single buffer the way 
TSO option 6 is. At the end of the line, the keyboard locks. Likewise, deleting 
blanks at the end of the line does pull the second line forward.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
Behalf Of David Spiegel
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 9:32 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

Hi Skip,
There are 2 things you can do:
1) Keep typing and let the text wrap
2) Strike Enter after "OPERTUNE," and continue the command by Replying to the 
next WTOR.

Regards,
David

On 2020-11-29 12:23, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

We were instructed by a vendor to set a two line SLIP trap for a
problem affecting their product. My colleague used the SDSF command
facility (/+) to enter the command. Working together, we could not
get it to work because trailing blanks on the first line were passed
to MVS, breaking the command. Here's the command. (? Is a single
character wildcard.)

|   System Command Extension|
|
| | ===> SL
| | SET,A=SVCD,ID=SKIP,C=522,J=CSSW?L01,JL=(CSSW?L01,OPERTUNE,|
| ===> DB04MSTR),SDATA=(RGN,CSA,TRT),END|
|
| |

The four blanks () went to MVS and caused a break in the SLIP command so 
that everything after 'OPERTUNE' was apparently treated as a comment. We played 
with this for some time but could not get rid of the blanks. We eventually 
found  a different way to enter the command, but I'd like to know if we're 
missing something. Pored over online doc but could not see anything relevant.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <= NEW
robin...@sce.com<mailto:robin...@sce.com>


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

I'll have to give this a try. What I did not mention in the original post was 
that we 'edited' this complicated command in a text file and then copy/pasted 
it into the command screen. Also did not reveal that the way we got it to work 
was to enter it as a subcommand to TSO OPER. That was quite trip around the 
block for what should have been a few steps. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Spiegel
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 10:34 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

Hi Skip,
Here is what my panel looks like:|
  EsssN
  e   Edit  Options Help e
  e  e
  e   System Command ExtensionEnd of data e
  e e
  e ===> SL SET,A=SVCD,ID=SKIP,C=522,J=CSSW?L01,JL=(CSSW?L01,OPERTUNE,DB  e
  e ===> 04MSTR),SDATA=(RGN,CSA,TRT),END e
  e e

I just kept typing and the text wrapped to the second line.
BTW, the command worked.

Regards,
David


On 2020-11-29 12:52, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
> 2) might work, but it doesn't explain the blank problem. 1) does not work 
> because the two lines of SDSF command are not actually a single buffer the 
> way TSO option 6 is. At the end of the line, the keyboard locks. Likewise, 
> deleting blanks at the end of the line does pull the second line forward.
>
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
> robin...@sce.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On 
> Behalf Of David Spiegel
> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 9:32 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: (External):Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command
>
> *** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***
>
> Hi Skip,
> There are 2 things you can do:
> 1) Keep typing and let the text wrap
> 2) Strike Enter after "OPERTUNE," and continue the command by Replying to the 
> next WTOR.
>
> Regards,
> David
>
> On 2020-11-29 12:23, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
>> We were instructed by a vendor to set a two line SLIP trap for a 
>> problem affecting their product. My colleague used the SDSF command 
>> facility (/+) to enter the command. Working together, we could not 
>> get it to work because trailing blanks on the first line were passed 
>> to MVS, breaking the command. Here's the command. (? Is a single 
>> character wildcard.)
>>
>> |   System Command Extension|
>> |
>> | | ===> SL 
>> | | SET,A=SVCD,ID=SKIP,C=522,J=CSSW?L01,JL=(CSSW?L01,OPERTUNE,|
>> | ===> DB04MSTR),SDATA=(RGN,CSA,TRT),END|
>> |
>> | |
>>
>> The four blanks () went to MVS and caused a break in the SLIP command so 
>> that everything after 'OPERTUNE' was apparently treated as a comment. We 
>> played with this for some time but could not get rid of the blanks. We 
>> eventually found  a different way to enter the command, but I'd like to know 
>> if we're missing something. Pored over online doc but could not see anything 
>> relevant.
>>
>> .
>> .
>> J.O.Skip Robinson
>> Southern California Edison Company
>> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
>> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
>> 323-715-0595 Mobile
>> 626-543-6132 Office <= NEW
>> robin...@sce.com<mailto:robin...@sce.com>


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[David Spiegel]

Hi Skip,
Here is what my panel looks like:|
 EsssN
 e   Edit  Options Help e
 e  e
 e   System Command Extension    End of data e
 e e
 e ===> SL SET,A=SVCD,ID=SKIP,C=522,J=CSSW?L01,JL=(CSSW?L01,OPERTUNE,DB  e
 e ===> 04MSTR),SDATA=(RGN,CSA,TRT),END e
 e e

I just kept typing and the text wrapped to the second line.
BTW, the command worked.

Regards,
David


On 2020-11-29 12:52, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

2) might work, but it doesn't explain the blank problem. 1) does not work 
because the two lines of SDSF command are not actually a single buffer the way 
TSO option 6 is. At the end of the line, the keyboard locks. Likewise, deleting 
blanks at the end of the line does pull the second line forward.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Spiegel
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 9:32 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

Hi Skip,
There are 2 things you can do:
1) Keep typing and let the text wrap
2) Strike Enter after "OPERTUNE," and continue the command by Replying to the 
next WTOR.

Regards,
David

On 2020-11-29 12:23, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

We were instructed by a vendor to set a two line SLIP trap for a
problem affecting their product. My colleague used the SDSF command
facility (/+) to enter the command. Working together, we could not get
it to work because trailing blanks on the first line were passed to
MVS, breaking the command. Here's the command. (? Is a single
character wildcard.)

|   System Command Extension|
|
| | ===> SL SET,A=SVCD,ID=SKIP,C=522,J=CSSW?L01,JL=(CSSW?L01,OPERTUNE,|
| ===> DB04MSTR),SDATA=(RGN,CSA,TRT),END|
|
| |

The four blanks () went to MVS and caused a break in the SLIP command so 
that everything after 'OPERTUNE' was apparently treated as a comment. We played 
with this for some time but could not get rid of the blanks. We eventually 
found  a different way to enter the command, but I'd like to know if we're 
missing something. Pored over online doc but could not see anything relevant.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <= NEW
robin...@sce.com<mailto:robin...@sce.com>


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Lizette Koehler]

Skip

Not the answer you asked for, but I typically put my Slip traps in 
SYS1.**.PARMLIB IEASLPxx   and then just do a SET SLIP=xx
I can put blanks and comments in the member so I know what I was last doing.

A Dynamic slip makes one guess in the future what it was for.

Just my personal opinion


Lizette


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Charles Mills
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 11:01 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

Hit PF5 IIRC on the /+ panel and you will get a field that wraps.

Yes, insert and delete characters still will not work. But the command will.

Any blanks in the fields "count." You will need

...OPERTUNE,DB04
MSTR

(Watch out if IBMMAIN combines the above two lines.)

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 9:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

2) might work, but it doesn't explain the blank problem. 1) does not work 
because the two lines of SDSF command are not actually a single buffer the way 
TSO option 6 is. At the end of the line, the keyboard locks. Likewise, deleting 
blanks at the end of the line does pull the second line forward.  

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Spiegel
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 9:32 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

Hi Skip,
There are 2 things you can do:
1) Keep typing and let the text wrap
2) Strike Enter after "OPERTUNE," and continue the command by Replying to the 
next WTOR.

Regards,
David

On 2020-11-29 12:23, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
> We were instructed by a vendor to set a two line SLIP trap for a 
> problem affecting their product. My colleague used the SDSF command 
> facility (/+) to enter the command. Working together, we could not get 
> it to work because trailing blanks on the first line were passed to 
> MVS, breaking the command. Here's the command. (? Is a single 
> character wildcard.)
>
> |   System Command Extension|
> |   
> | | ===> SL 
> | | SET,A=SVCD,ID=SKIP,C=522,J=CSSW?L01,JL=(CSSW?L01,OPERTUNE,|
> | ===> DB04MSTR),SDATA=(RGN,CSA,TRT),END|
> |   
> | |
>
> The four blanks () went to MVS and caused a break in the SLIP command so 
> that everything after 'OPERTUNE' was apparently treated as a comment. We 
> played with this for some time but could not get rid of the blanks. We 
> eventually found  a different way to enter the command, but I'd like to know 
> if we're missing something. Pored over online doc but could not see anything 
> relevant.
>
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-543-6132 Office <= NEW
> robin...@sce.com<mailto:robin...@sce.com>


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 17:59:14 +, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
>...
>EOF does not work because the two line buffers appear not be connected. 
>
If it doesn't work, it's cause for SR.  inserting characters you didn't
type, whether "" or "CRAP" is a data integrity violation.  If it's
WAD, it should go to RFE.

(Sometimes the offender is a faithless 3270 emulator.)

(I'm most comfortable on systems where blanks aren't treated
so specially.)

>Inserting blanks up front might work. Kind of a pain. But thanks! 

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Charles Mills]

Hit PF5 IIRC on the /+ panel and you will get a field that wraps.

Yes, insert and delete characters still will not work. But the command will.

Any blanks in the fields "count." You will need

...OPERTUNE,DB04
MSTR

(Watch out if IBMMAIN combines the above two lines.)

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 9:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

2) might work, but it doesn't explain the blank problem. 1) does not work 
because the two lines of SDSF command are not actually a single buffer the way 
TSO option 6 is. At the end of the line, the keyboard locks. Likewise, deleting 
blanks at the end of the line does pull the second line forward.  

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Spiegel
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 9:32 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

Hi Skip,
There are 2 things you can do:
1) Keep typing and let the text wrap
2) Strike Enter after "OPERTUNE," and continue the command by Replying to the 
next WTOR.

Regards,
David

On 2020-11-29 12:23, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
> We were instructed by a vendor to set a two line SLIP trap for a 
> problem affecting their product. My colleague used the SDSF command 
> facility (/+) to enter the command. Working together, we could not get 
> it to work because trailing blanks on the first line were passed to 
> MVS, breaking the command. Here's the command. (? Is a single 
> character wildcard.)
>
> |   System Command Extension|
> |   
> | | ===> SL SET,A=SVCD,ID=SKIP,C=522,J=CSSW?L01,JL=(CSSW?L01,OPERTUNE,|
> | ===> DB04MSTR),SDATA=(RGN,CSA,TRT),END|
> |   
> | |
>
> The four blanks () went to MVS and caused a break in the SLIP command so 
> that everything after 'OPERTUNE' was apparently treated as a comment. We 
> played with this for some time but could not get rid of the blanks. We 
> eventually found  a different way to enter the command, but I'd like to know 
> if we're missing something. Pored over online doc but could not see anything 
> relevant.
>
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-543-6132 Office <= NEW
> robin...@sce.com<mailto:robin...@sce.com>


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

As an aside, David Spiegels option 2), if it works, depends on the quirky SLIP 
command, since very few commands continue reprompting until a logical end.

EOF does not work because the two line buffers appear not be connected. 

Inserting blanks up front might work. Kind of a pain. But thanks! 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 9:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 12:31:42 -0500, David Spiegel wrote:
>
>There are 2 things you can do:
>1) Keep typing and let the text wrap
>2) Strike Enter after "OPERTUNE," and continue the command by Replying 
>to the next WTOR.
>
3) Place the cursor at the first of the four blanks and press "Erase EOF".
4) Begin the command line with "SLbSET,..." so there's no room for 4 blanks.

If (3) doesn't work, it's SR time.  UIs shouldn't play games with your text.


>On 2020-11-29 12:23, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
>> We were instructed by a vendor to set a two line SLIP trap for a 
>> problem affecting their product. My colleague used the SDSF command 
>> facility (/+) to enter the command. Working together, we could not 
>> get it to work because trailing blanks on the first line were passed 
>> to MVS, breaking the command. Here's the command. (? Is a single 
>> character wildcard.)
>>
>> |   System Command Extension|
>> |   
>> | | ===> SL SET,A=SVCD,ID=SKIP,C=522,J=CSSW?L01,JL=(CSSW?L01,OPERTUNE,|
>> | ===> DB04MSTR),SDATA=(RGN,CSA,TRT),END|
>> |   
>> | |
>>
>> The four blanks () went to MVS and caused a break in the SLIP command so 
>> that everything after 'OPERTUNE' was apparently treated as a comment. We 
>> played with this for some time but could not get rid of the blanks. We 
>> eventually found  a different way to enter the command, but I'd like to know 
>> if we're missing something. Pored over online doc but could not see anything 
>> relevant.

-- gil


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[David Spiegel]

Which version of z/OS are you running?
Do you have any ISPF or SDSF Usermods?

On 2020-11-29 12:52, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

2) might work, but it doesn't explain the blank problem. 1) does not work 
because the two lines of SDSF command are not actually a single buffer the way 
TSO option 6 is. At the end of the line, the keyboard locks. Likewise, deleting 
blanks at the end of the line does pull the second line forward.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Spiegel
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 9:32 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

Hi Skip,
There are 2 things you can do:
1) Keep typing and let the text wrap
2) Strike Enter after "OPERTUNE," and continue the command by Replying to the 
next WTOR.

Regards,
David

On 2020-11-29 12:23, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

We were instructed by a vendor to set a two line SLIP trap for a
problem affecting their product. My colleague used the SDSF command
facility (/+) to enter the command. Working together, we could not get
it to work because trailing blanks on the first line were passed to
MVS, breaking the command. Here's the command. (? Is a single
character wildcard.)

|   System Command Extension|
|
| | ===> SL SET,A=SVCD,ID=SKIP,C=522,J=CSSW?L01,JL=(CSSW?L01,OPERTUNE,|
| ===> DB04MSTR),SDATA=(RGN,CSA,TRT),END|
|
| |

The four blanks () went to MVS and caused a break in the SLIP command so 
that everything after 'OPERTUNE' was apparently treated as a comment. We played 
with this for some time but could not get rid of the blanks. We eventually 
found  a different way to enter the command, but I'd like to know if we're 
missing something. Pored over online doc but could not see anything relevant.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <= NEW
robin...@sce.com<mailto:robin...@sce.com>


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

2) might work, but it doesn't explain the blank problem. 1) does not work 
because the two lines of SDSF command are not actually a single buffer the way 
TSO option 6 is. At the end of the line, the keyboard locks. Likewise, deleting 
blanks at the end of the line does pull the second line forward.  

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Spiegel
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 9:32 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

Hi Skip,
There are 2 things you can do:
1) Keep typing and let the text wrap
2) Strike Enter after "OPERTUNE," and continue the command by Replying to the 
next WTOR.

Regards,
David

On 2020-11-29 12:23, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
> We were instructed by a vendor to set a two line SLIP trap for a 
> problem affecting their product. My colleague used the SDSF command 
> facility (/+) to enter the command. Working together, we could not get 
> it to work because trailing blanks on the first line were passed to 
> MVS, breaking the command. Here's the command. (? Is a single 
> character wildcard.)
>
> |   System Command Extension|
> |   
> | | ===> SL SET,A=SVCD,ID=SKIP,C=522,J=CSSW?L01,JL=(CSSW?L01,OPERTUNE,|
> | ===> DB04MSTR),SDATA=(RGN,CSA,TRT),END|
> |   
> | |
>
> The four blanks () went to MVS and caused a break in the SLIP command so 
> that everything after 'OPERTUNE' was apparently treated as a comment. We 
> played with this for some time but could not get rid of the blanks. We 
> eventually found  a different way to enter the command, but I'd like to know 
> if we're missing something. Pored over online doc but could not see anything 
> relevant.
>
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-543-6132 Office <= NEW
> robin...@sce.com<mailto:robin...@sce.com>


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 12:31:42 -0500, David Spiegel wrote:
>
>There are 2 things you can do:
>1) Keep typing and let the text wrap
>2) Strike Enter after "OPERTUNE," and continue the command by Replying
>to the next WTOR.
>
3) Place the cursor at the first of the four blanks and press "Erase EOF".
4) Begin the command line with "SLbSET,..." so there's no room for 4 blanks.

If (3) doesn't work, it's SR time.  UIs shouldn't play games with your text.


>On 2020-11-29 12:23, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
>> We were instructed by a vendor to set a two line SLIP trap for a problem 
>> affecting their product. My colleague used the SDSF command facility (/+) to 
>> enter the command. Working together, we could not get it to work because 
>> trailing blanks on the first line were passed to MVS, breaking the command. 
>> Here's the command. (? Is a single character wildcard.)
>>
>> |   System Command Extension|
>> |   |
>> | ===> SL SET,A=SVCD,ID=SKIP,C=522,J=CSSW?L01,JL=(CSSW?L01,OPERTUNE,|
>> | ===> DB04MSTR),SDATA=(RGN,CSA,TRT),END|
>> |   |
>>
>> The four blanks () went to MVS and caused a break in the SLIP command so 
>> that everything after 'OPERTUNE' was apparently treated as a comment. We 
>> played with this for some time but could not get rid of the blanks. We 
>> eventually found  a different way to enter the command, but I'd like to know 
>> if we're missing something. Pored over online doc but could not see anything 
>> relevant.

-- gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

[David Spiegel]

Hi Skip,
There are 2 things you can do:
1) Keep typing and let the text wrap
2) Strike Enter after "OPERTUNE," and continue the command by Replying 
to the next WTOR.


Regards,
David

On 2020-11-29 12:23, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

We were instructed by a vendor to set a two line SLIP trap for a problem 
affecting their product. My colleague used the SDSF command facility (/+) to 
enter the command. Working together, we could not get it to work because 
trailing blanks on the first line were passed to MVS, breaking the command. 
Here's the command. (? Is a single character wildcard.)

|   System Command Extension|
|   |
| ===> SL SET,A=SVCD,ID=SKIP,C=522,J=CSSW?L01,JL=(CSSW?L01,OPERTUNE,|
| ===> DB04MSTR),SDATA=(RGN,CSA,TRT),END|
|   |

The four blanks () went to MVS and caused a break in the SLIP command so 
that everything after 'OPERTUNE' was apparently treated as a comment. We played 
with this for some time but could not get rid of the blanks. We eventually 
found  a different way to enter the command, but I'd like to know if we're 
missing something. Pored over online doc but could not see anything relevant.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office <= NEW
robin...@sce.com


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN