Re: Me Want Cookie!

2021-12-29 Thread Bob Bridges 
I once wrote an article (so to speak) explaining cookies to my mom.  My main 
theme was that I don't understand why people are so up in arms about them.  I 
suppose it must be an extension of the general dislike of being tracked.  But 
given that vendors are going to keep track of your information -- as indeed 
they must, after all, my preferences, my Mastercard number, my shipping address 
and so forth -- why wouldn't I prefer they keep it on my own machine rather 
than with thousands of others in a central database that will eventually, 
inevitably be hacked?

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* When you give a personal lesson in meanness to a critter or to a person, 
don't be surprised if they learn their lesson.  -from A Cowboy's Guide to Life 
*/

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2021 21:41

Sometimes I browse the IBM-MAIN website with a handheld; more often with a 
laptop.  I want different display preferences according to the different screen 
sizes.  But when I switch from handheld to laptop or vice-versa, LISTSERV 
redraws the page on the new device to match the previous.

I truly wish LISTSERV would keep display preferences in cookies on the 
respective devices rather than in a user profile on the site.



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Re: Me?

2013-03-08 Thread Mike Myers 
Ah yes. Brings back memories of encountering that usage and then being 
introduced to Bill Collier and his technical report OS360 Coding 
Notes. Bill had discovered that special behavior of both BXLE and BXH.


My second project out of programming school in POK was a process 
intended to determine if OS/360 test cases had exercised the code paths 
that eventually resulted in bugs (or if those paths had been missed and 
never tested). The method was to trap execution of all branch 
instructions in system code when running the test buckets and then map 
the paths executed against the assembler listings of the modules. The 
project, called MEMMAP, consisted of a modified assembler that replaced 
all branch instructions with specific invalid op codes and also produced 
a bit map file representing the module's code. The second piece was an 
extension to the program check interrupt handler that would register the 
execution of the branch instruction and replace the invalid op code with 
its valid equivalent, once all possible conditions had been met. It also 
marked the code paths in the module's bit map as having been executed by 
the test case.


The PC FLIH also had to correctly simulate the execution of each of the 
invalid branch instructions. The problem was that the bit shifting 
procedure was not obvious to me from the execution descriptions in the 
PoP, so IEFSD095 failed to operate as designed when run in MEMMAP. 
Fortunately, the author had been kind enough to heavily comment that 
section of the code and refer to Collier's technical report.


I later used the method in the Paging Services Interface module of RSM 
in the first release of MVS and left a full page of comments explaining 
the intended behavior. I often wonder if that is still in the code being 
shipped today.


Mike Myers
Mentor Services Corporation

On 03/04/2013 01:38 PM, Gerhard Postpischil wrote:

On 3/4/2013 11:46 AM, Tony Harminc wrote:

Perhaps they were early RISC programmers...


Possibly, but IEFSD095 also uses BXH (for the non-obvious function of 
shifting a bit, testing it, and conditional branching).


Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, Vermont

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Re: Me?

2013-03-07 Thread Gabe Goldberg 

IEFSD095! In my early days (1968) working in POK, OS/360 System Design 
Department, I came across that very module -- and couldn't believe its 
blecherous code. It wasn't my assignment, but in not much time I rewrote it and 
ran speed tests, proving that my version was some multiple faster than the 
original. I couldn't get it integrated/shipped, of course, because of testing, 
regression testing, and other such fun reasons. Also of course, because OS 
wasn't spending that much time formatting large block letters on job output, so 
the overall improvement would have been minimal, at best. Ah, youth.

Gerhard Postpischilgerh...@valley.net  said:

On 3/4/2013 12:56 AM, Scott Ford wrote:


Anyone take into consideration the lack of skills nowdays. I am sure IBM is 
also running into this situation.


They're sort of coming full circle. The programming team on OS/360 had
to start from scratch, and many had experience only on the 7094. The
word orientation shows in IEFSD095 (big letter routine) that did
character manipulation using word instructions, and almost no character
instructions (IIRC, they used an STC, but that was about it).

--
Gabriel Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, Inc.   g...@gabegold.com
3401 Silver Maple Place, Falls Church, VA 22042   (703) 204-0433
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/gabegoldTwitter: GabeG0

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Re: Me?

2013-03-07 Thread Ed Gould 

On Mar 7, 2013, at 10:56 PM, Jim Mulder wrote:

SNIP_


  In your honor, the blecherous code in IEFSD095 has been left
unchanged, even as of z/OS 2.1



I remember that I used iefsd095 back in 1972 to create a short timers  
calendar, to mark off the number of days I had left in the ARMY.

The captain was not amused.

Ed



Jim Mulder   z/OS System Test   IBM Corp.  Poughkeepsie,  NY

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Re: Me?

2013-03-04 Thread John Gilmore 
Gerhard's point is well made and of even wider application than he notes.

In commercial shops it is almost always possible to determine1) the
history an application in the sense that the current COBOL source
programs for it reflect in obvious ways the fact that it was once
implemented in AUTOCODER or RPG and 2) the experience and training of
its programmers in the sense that a) the organization of a LISP (sic)
routine clearly reflects its writers' chief experience as COBOL
programmers or that b) a PL/I  routine can be seen immediately to be a
species of COBOL with semicolons.

As Otto Neurath once put it,  'Ontology recapitulates philology'.


John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: Me?

2013-03-04 Thread Tony Harminc 
On 4 March 2013 01:29, Gerhard Postpischil gerh...@valley.net wrote:

 They're sort of coming full circle. The programming team on OS/360 had to
 start from scratch, and many had experience only on the 7094. The word
 orientation shows in IEFSD095 (big letter routine) that did character
 manipulation using word instructions, and almost no character instructions
 (IIRC, they used an STC, but that was about it).

 Of course I may be doing them an injustice, and they might have found their
 version to be faster on the early machines?

Perhaps they were early RISC programmers...

Tony H.

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Re: Me?

2013-03-04 Thread Gerhard Postpischil 

On 3/4/2013 11:46 AM, Tony Harminc wrote:

Perhaps they were early RISC programmers...


Possibly, but IEFSD095 also uses BXH (for the non-obvious function of 
shifting a bit, testing it, and conditional branching).


Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, Vermont

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Re: Me? (was: SAVE macro, I think)

2013-03-04 Thread Don Williams 
Far too many times have I come across readers and writers (and not just
IBMers) that do not understand words in a technical manual like ALL, EVERY,
NONE, FIRST, LAST, AND, OR, NEITHER, EITHER, etc. need precise definitions
and usages otherwise you have a novel and not reference manual.

Don

 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
 On Behalf Of zMan
 Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 10:05 AM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: Me? (was: SAVE macro, I think)
 
 On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com
 wrote:
 
  And I have known IBM support to reply to my minimal test
  case similarly to, Why do you need this program to work?
  It appears to do nothing useful.
 
 
 Seriously? At that point, I'd probably send them a 10,000-line module and
 say Here, try this...
 
 Sheesh. That sounds like the IBM of old, when they'd do anything to avoid
 fixing bugs (I remember once saying 'ALL' means 'ALL', damnit! to a
Level
 2 rep, who was arguing that the documentation didn't mean that something
 applied to all cases, even though it said it did...).
 --
 zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it
 
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Re: Me? (was: SAVE macro, I think)

2013-03-03 Thread zMan 
On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote:

 And I have known IBM support to reply to my minimal test
 case similarly to, Why do you need this program to work?
 It appears to do nothing useful.


Seriously? At that point, I'd probably send them a 10,000-line module and
say Here, try this...

Sheesh. That sounds like the IBM of old, when they'd do anything to avoid
fixing bugs (I remember once saying 'ALL' means 'ALL', damnit! to a Level
2 rep, who was arguing that the documentation didn't mean that something
applied to all cases, even though it said it did...).
-- 
zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it

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Re: Me? (was: SAVE macro, I think)

2013-03-03 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) 
In 0551413286133992.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu, on
03/03/2013
   at 08:54 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said:

And I have known IBM support to reply to my minimal test case
similarly to, Why do you need this program to work? It appears to 
do nothing useful.

You'll get more with a kind word and an escalation than you'll ever
get with just a kind word. (JD)

-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Me? (was: SAVE macro, I think)

2013-03-03 Thread John Gilmore 
The late John Cocke observed that

 . . . an error example should have  the minimal length and
complexity required to exhibit that error.

There is no appeal from this judgment.  Dissent from it is
disqualifying, unseriösische.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: Me? (was: SAVE macro, I think)

2013-03-03 Thread Scott Ford 
I can tell your not irish

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com

Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll 
understand. - Chinese Proverb


On Mar 3, 2013, at 10:05 AM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) 
shmuel+...@patriot.net wrote:

 In 0551413286133992.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu, on
 03/03/2013
   at 08:54 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said:
 
 And I have known IBM support to reply to my minimal test case
 similarly to, Why do you need this program to work? It appears to 
 do nothing useful.
 
 You'll get more with a kind word and an escalation than you'll ever
 get with just a kind word. (JD)
 
 -- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel
 We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
 (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)
 
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 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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Re: Me? (was: SAVE macro, I think)

2013-03-03 Thread Robert A. Rosenberg 
At 08:54 -0600 on 03/03/2013, Paul Gilmartin wrote about Me? (was: 
SAVE macro, I think):



And I have known IBM support to reply to my minimal test
case similarly to, Why do you need this program to work?
It appears to do nothing useful.


After getting this type of blow-off reply to a submission of a 
minimal demo,in future problem submissions I always added extra 
comment documentation to the start of the code to acknowledge that 
the code did not do anything useful EXCEPT demonstrate the 
problem/bug - Thus cutting short the first round-trip for the 
usefulness query.


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Re: Me? (was: SAVE macro, I think)

2013-03-03 Thread Paul Gilmartin 
On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 21:39:59 -0500, Robert A. Rosenberg wrote:

At 08:54 -0600 on 03/03/2013, Paul Gilmartin wrote about Me? (was:
SAVE macro, I think):

And I have known IBM support to reply to my minimal test
case similarly to, Why do you need this program to work?
It appears to do nothing useful.

After getting this type of blow-off reply to a submission of a
minimal demo,in future problem submissions I always added extra
comment documentation to the start of the code to acknowledge that
the code did not do anything useful EXCEPT demonstrate the
problem/bug - Thus cutting short the first round-trip for the
usefulness query.
 
Another variant I got once was, Are you seriously developing an
application, or are you just testing?  I replied, somewhat snarkily,
Testing, but not 'just testing'.  I consider testing an essential
part of software quality assurance.  Apparently IBM believes
otherwise.

In honesty, sometimes when reading a description of a feature,
perhaps a new one, in a manual, I think, It would be difficult,
perhaps logically impossible, to code that feature to operate as
described, particularly in some boundary condition.  So, out of
intellectual curiosity, I code a test case to exercise such a
boundary condition.  Usually, I'm pleasantly surprised that the
feature works as described.  If not, I submit a PMR.

Where's the Black Team when you need them?

-- gil

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Re: Me? (was: SAVE macro, I think)

2013-03-03 Thread Scott Ford 
Anyone take into consideration the lack of skills nowdays. I am sure IBM is 
also running into this situation.

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com

Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll 
understand. - Chinese Proverb


On Mar 3, 2013, at 11:26 PM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote:

 On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 21:39:59 -0500, Robert A. Rosenberg wrote:
 
 At 08:54 -0600 on 03/03/2013, Paul Gilmartin wrote about Me? (was:
 SAVE macro, I think):
 
 And I have known IBM support to reply to my minimal test
 case similarly to, Why do you need this program to work?
 It appears to do nothing useful.
 
 After getting this type of blow-off reply to a submission of a
 minimal demo,in future problem submissions I always added extra
 comment documentation to the start of the code to acknowledge that
 the code did not do anything useful EXCEPT demonstrate the
 problem/bug - Thus cutting short the first round-trip for the
 usefulness query.
 Another variant I got once was, Are you seriously developing an
 application, or are you just testing?  I replied, somewhat snarkily,
 Testing, but not 'just testing'.  I consider testing an essential
 part of software quality assurance.  Apparently IBM believes
 otherwise.
 
 In honesty, sometimes when reading a description of a feature,
 perhaps a new one, in a manual, I think, It would be difficult,
 perhaps logically impossible, to code that feature to operate as
 described, particularly in some boundary condition.  So, out of
 intellectual curiosity, I code a test case to exercise such a
 boundary condition.  Usually, I'm pleasantly surprised that the
 feature works as described.  If not, I submit a PMR.
 
 Where's the Black Team when you need them?
 
 -- gil
 
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Re: Me?

2013-03-03 Thread Gerhard Postpischil 

On 3/4/2013 12:56 AM, Scott Ford wrote:

Anyone take into consideration the lack of skills nowdays. I am sure IBM is 
also running into this situation.


They're sort of coming full circle. The programming team on OS/360 had 
to start from scratch, and many had experience only on the 7094. The 
word orientation shows in IEFSD095 (big letter routine) that did 
character manipulation using word instructions, and almost no character 
instructions (IIRC, they used an STC, but that was about it).


Of course I may be doing them an injustice, and they might have found 
their version to be faster on the early machines?


Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, Vermont

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