Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
On the bookshelf behind me in my office is an IBM carriage control tape punch. In the late 1970s I rented time on an IBM Model 40. It had no attached unit record hardware because the 2821 control unit was still used on 370 hardware and cost more than the Model 40! There was a 1401 with 4 7-track mag tape drives, a card reader, and a 1403 (not the model with the power lid). You would punch up your job cards, put them in the reader behind a well-worn small deck containing a program to read the cards and copy them to tape, then hang the tape on the a 7-track drive attached to the Model 40 to read in your job. Printed output was written to another 7-track mag tape, then taken to the 1401 to print. (I still have DOS Release 26 SYSRES packs for 2311 (1316) and 2314 (2316) drives/disk packs). Being an old guy I punched a lot of tape on an ASR-33. I have a roll of paper tape that I recall getting at a meeting of the Denver Amateur Computer Society in '75. A couple of young guys named Bill Gates and Paul Allen were touring computer clubs showing off their 4K Basic interpreter for the Altair 8800. My Altair didn't have a paper tape reader, so I was never able to verify that the the tape actually contained a copy of Altair Basic. Howard Turetzky PS. Stupidest career move ever...I was a working programmer at the time. A smart person would have given his business card to Mr. Gates in case he was hiring. Being not so smart is why I'm still coding away in an office at the IBM site in Boulder. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
Gil: That is for a PRINTER not a teletype machine. Two completely different animals. That being said yes system 7 did have a teletype reader that is NOT a 360/370 machine. Ed > On Jan 17, 2017, at 9:06 AM, Paul Gilmartin > <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 20:12:02 -0600, Edward Gould wrote: > >>> On Jan 16, 2017, at 10:52 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 07:00:27 -0600, Tom Marchant wrote: Yep. That's what I was thinking of. I didn't say that it was used for I/O. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage_control_tape >> >> ... I just got off the phone with a friend and he does not remember it for >> the 14xx either. >> > Nonetheless, see the article: >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage_control_tape > > -- gil > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
Phil: Hard to say. As mentioned earlier, my last contact with paper tape (other than 1403 printer control tape) was in1962 on my return to the lower 48 and my next USAF assignment at SAC HQ in Omaha, NB, where I remained in the USAF for another 2 years and stayed active in encrypted teletype and voice communications. I don't recall any subsequent paper tape use even at SAC HQ, although teletype communications were in significant use there. On going to work at IBM as a field engineer responsible for unit record equipment repair, I saw no paper tape use. After transferring to the IBM Data Systems Division in Poughkeepsie in 1966, I never saw paper tape (except for 1403 printer control tape). Not that it might have been in use elsewhere, but in the development lab in P'ok, NY, I never saw it after leaving the radar site in Alaska (and even there, it was only with teletypes). So while it may have been in use elsewhere with IBM gear, I had no experience with it on any IBM equipment I ever came into contact with. Punched cards, yes, that's a whole different story and that went on for a long time thereafter. Mike Myers Mentor Services Corporation On 01/17/2017 08:45 PM, Phil Smith wrote: Tom Marchant wrote: Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. Huh. We had a keypunch in the house in 1965, and I started hanging out in the computer room at UofW in 1971. I've never seen paper tape in use, only at the Computer History Museum. Maybe I was just lucky? ...phsiii -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
Great line from great (at least as I remember it) scifi book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adolescence_of_P-1 -- after a gunfight in computer room, during which a certain device took a bullet, "That 1052 had it coming". Bill Godfrey mentioned: > IBM reference > https://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/reference/glossary_1.html > > 1050 [2] The 1050 system consisted of the 1051 control unit, 1052 > printer-keyboard, 1053 printer, 1054 paper tape reader, 1055 paper tape > punch and 1056 card reader. These various components were withdrawn from > marketing between February 1974 and June 1978. -- Gabriel Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, Inc. g...@gabegold.com 3401 Silver Maple Place, Falls Church, VA 22042 (703) 204-0433 LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/gabegoldTwitter: GabeG0 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
On 2017-01-17 18:45, Phil Smith wrote: > Tom Marchant wrote: >> Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. > > Huh. We had a keypunch in the house in 1965, and I started hanging out in the > computer room at UofW in 1971. I've never seen paper tape in use, only at the > Computer History Museum. Maybe I was just lucky? > Regardless, they're not mutually exclusive. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
Tom Marchant wrote: >Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. Huh. We had a keypunch in the house in 1965, and I started hanging out in the computer room at UofW in 1971. I've never seen paper tape in use, only at the Computer History Museum. Maybe I was just lucky? ...phsiii -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 13:21:16 -0800, Charles Mills wrote: >Yep. I was going to ask that as a Friday riddle: "what was special about >channel 12?" Yes, a program could check it so that it knew when to quit >printing detail lines, print subtotals, and eject to a new page. Holy cow! Can >you imagine a program running directly connected to a printer, not spooled? > If the virtualization of the printer were complete it should just work. I'd not be surprised if it works on VM with a spooled virtual printer and LOADVFCB. POWER? >Generated a Data Check (?) on the channel, which showed up in the I/O >completion status somewhere. > A better abstraction might set a flag in the DCB rather than requiring the programmer to chase control blocks. >I just looked -- still sort of supported in COBOL 4.2 anyway: "AT END-OF-PAGE" >-- but now relies on a programmatic counter. > A tech writer in a department I once had to work with defined her 11" pages with 61 lines instead of the conventional 60 to cheat one more row in character-cell engineering drawings. Lots of grief when I had to use a printer with conventional setup. And some optical printers might not tolerate that at all. (Might not have been her fault; she may have inherited the behavior from a predecessor.) ALGOL-68 presumes 3-dimensional printer files: page x row x column. Is there a way to cause ISPF Browse to scroll to skip-to-channel-1 code? OK. Put a FIND comand on a PF key. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 13:21:16 -0800, Charles Mills wrote: >Can you imagine a program running directly connected to a printer, not spooled? Back in the '70's we had a couple of programs that directly connected to a printer. They were check writing programs, and the check numbers were pre-printed on the forms. The program that wrote the checks would print a bunch of "VOID" stuff in the appropriate locations for alignment purposes. When the operator was satisfied with the alignment, the operator would tell the program (IIRC) the last voided check number so that the check register could be updated with the check number for each check that was printed. The program had to deal with breaks and the end of the box and re-align the forms. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
Yep. I was going to ask that as a Friday riddle: "what was special about channel 12?" Yes, a program could check it so that it knew when to quit printing detail lines, print subtotals, and eject to a new page. Holy cow! Can you imagine a program running directly connected to a printer, not spooled? Generated a Data Check (?) on the channel, which showed up in the I/O completion status somewhere. I just looked -- still sort of supported in COBOL 4.2 anyway: "AT END-OF-PAGE" -- but now relies on a programmatic counter. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Dana Mitchell Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 11:57 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) And also wasn't a channel 12 punch used as end of form indicator that could be checked programatically, so the program could skip to channel 1 when needed? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
And also wasn't a channel 12 punch used as end of form indicator that could be checked programatically, so the program could skip to channel 1 when needed? Now that's been a while... Dana -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
Carriage control tapes rode on one free spinning wheel and one sprocket wheel. The free spinning wheel was adjustable and was used to apply slight pressure to the tape. They were at the upper right of the print mechanism. The wheels were 1-1/2 to 2 inches in diameter. The tapes were punched in one of 12 "channels." The tapes were glued at the ends to provide a continuous oval. Depending on the printer clutch setting the 1403 would print 6 or 8 lines per inch. The minimum length was determined by the need to wrap around both of the wheels and have some space between the two wheels. The punch for the tape produced a hole similar to a punch card, but slightly shorter. There would be a punch for the top of the form and any places the form should be "skipped" to - start of the address line on an invoice, date line, detail line, total line, etc. Skipping was quicker than spacing using line printing. If the wrong carriage control tape was installed and a channel to be skipped to was not there the printer would go into a high speed skip and the form would fly through the printer. You had to be sure to use the right tape or the form would not be spaced correctly. Michael C. O'Byrne Senior Software Analyst - Enterprise Server Foot Locker Corporate Services 7800 W Brown Deer Rd, Milwaukee, WI 53223 (414) 357-4094 From: Charles Mills To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Date: 01/16/2017 11:27 AM Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List It was exactly as shown in the Wikipedia photo. It was a very durable, tough, high-fiber paper, not at all the same as TTY punch tape -- other than the superficial similarity. After all, it made a trip around the sensors every page that the 14xx printed, boxes and boxes of greenbar every day. (Or every other page, perhaps. I seem to recall that there was a minimum length to the tape and it was not uncommon to make one tape loop account for two printed pages.) There was a special punch http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/physical-object/ibm/102668343.lg.jpg , but I seem to recall that in a pinch one could use a loose-leaf or similar punch. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 8:53 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 07:00:27 -0600, Tom Marchant wrote: >On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 00:15:38 +, Vince Coen wrote: > >>If no where else it was on the printers for channel control. > >Yep. That's what I was thinking of. I didn't say that it was used for I/O. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage_control_tape > I recall in that era that IBM printers used an idiosyncratic tape, as in the Wikipedia illustration, requiring a proprietary punch (or would a loose-leaf punch work?) CDC printers used a conventional Teletype tape. Usually a collection of tape loops hung on a pegboard near the printer. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
Ours was a stack of reel-2-reel tapes on top of the printer. Al Nims Systems Admin/Programmer 3 UFIT University of Florida (352) 273-1298 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 12:07 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) > Extra points could be earned by raising the lid when printing was > actually taking place The cover (as you noted) raised on its own for paper jams and IIRC a paper out condition. Double extra points for causing the lid to raise when something -- a tray of cards, a verboten cup of coffee, the CE's took kit -- was sitting on the top of the cover. > The control loop had to be at least the same length as the page being > controlled Same length in lines, same "logical" length, not inches, although the two were not far different IIRC. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sean Gleann Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 8:30 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) "...There is just zero doubt in my mind that the 1403 printer used a "special" (not TTY-like) paper tape, solely for carriage control, not "data."..." That's my memory, too. Ours was a 1403-N1 aka '1403-Nancy' - with a lid that was raised on motor-driven screws when the paper either jammed or ran out (or the 'OPEN' button was pressed) thereby exposing delicate ears to the almighty racket of the chain-control motor. Extra points could be earned by raising the lid when printing was actually taking place, thus making normal speech impossible. As I remember things, the 'paper control loop' was made out of some kind of Mylar-based material. Certainly, 'normal' paper tape was simply too fragile for this use. The control loop had to be at least the same length as the page being controlled (or a multiple, if the physical page was very short), but we never had 'clever' stuff that required holes punched in anything other than 'channel 1'. If you didn't re-tension the loop sufficiently when changing over to a different one, the printer would go 'hunting' for channel-1, spewing paper out at the back at a high rate of knots... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
It is easy to forget how many radically, software-incompatible different "mainframe" lines IBM sold. Others have cataloged the various numbers better than I could. It seems foreign now, not being able to run General Ledger and some scientific calculation on the same mainframe. The 360 was of course named for its "full circle" capabilities, scientific and decimal. HOWEVER, this "two kinds of machines" thinking carried over even to the 360. The decimal instructions were an optional feature, and so were the floating point instructions, at least on some models, IIRC. So you could buy a "commercial" 360 or a "scientific" 360, as well as one that did both. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Anne & Lynn Wheeler Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 8:31 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) charl...@mcn.org (Charles Mills) writes: > And 1443 (?). I had a client that had a 1403 variant that was a little > slower but included a 16-or-so column card reader. You could print > invoices on pre-punched cards and read the punching to make sure you > were printing on the right card (no spool, obviously). It printed on > "160-column" cards, that is, two 80-column cards with a tearable fold > in the middle. One-half was the document the customer returned with a > check; one half was for his records. > > 1401 was a processor, not a printer, the "commercial" machine that > preceded the 360, the "all-purpose" computer. (70xx was the > "scientific" series.) > > Agree on the 3211. > > There is just zero doubt in my mind that the 1403 printer used a > "special" (not TTY-like) paper tape, solely for carriage control, not > "data." re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017.html#37 Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) we eventually put 1443 on 360/65 for keeping up with console output, things got so that 1052-7 couldn't keep up with all the messages ... and so had to be filtered down. 1401 was low/mid-range ... 70xx was high end https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_705 The IBM 700/7000 series has six completely different ways of storing data and instructions: First (36/18-bit words): 701 (Defense Calculator) Scientific (36-bit words): 704, 709, 7090, 7094, 7040, 7044 Commercial (variable length character strings): 702, 705, 7080 1400 series (variable length character strings): 7010 Decimal (10 digit words): 7070, 7072, 7074 Supercomputer (64-bit words): 7030 "Stretch" ... a 360 was to merge commercial & scientific in single architecture 360s came with various additional microcode features that implemented earlier architectures http://ibm-1401.info/1401in360.html#360-1401MicroCode some of my old posts on 360s with microcode feature that implemented earlier architectures http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006q.html#55 Was FORTRAN buggy? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#71 IBM tried to kill VM? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#52 IBM 1401 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009l.html#10 August 7, 1944: today is the 65th Anniversary of the Birth of the Computer http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009p.html#74 The 50th Anniversary of the Legendary IBM 1401 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#56 You know you've been Lisp hacking to long when http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#11 Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#53 You almost NEVER see these for sale, own a 360 console http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011g.html#70 History of byte addressing http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011n.html#84 Scanning JES3 JCL http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#69 model numbers; was re: World's worst programming environment? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#23 Scary Sysprogs and educating those 'kids' http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#17 System/360 celebration set for ten cities; 1964 pricing for oneweek http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#15 What were the complaints of binary code programmers that not accept Assembly? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016d.html#73 Is it a lost cause? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
> Extra points could be earned by raising the lid when printing was actually > taking place The cover (as you noted) raised on its own for paper jams and IIRC a paper out condition. Double extra points for causing the lid to raise when something -- a tray of cards, a verboten cup of coffee, the CE's took kit -- was sitting on the top of the cover. > The control loop had to be at least the same length as the page being > controlled Same length in lines, same "logical" length, not inches, although the two were not far different IIRC. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sean Gleann Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 8:30 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) "...There is just zero doubt in my mind that the 1403 printer used a "special" (not TTY-like) paper tape, solely for carriage control, not "data."..." That's my memory, too. Ours was a 1403-N1 aka '1403-Nancy' - with a lid that was raised on motor-driven screws when the paper either jammed or ran out (or the 'OPEN' button was pressed) thereby exposing delicate ears to the almighty racket of the chain-control motor. Extra points could be earned by raising the lid when printing was actually taking place, thus making normal speech impossible. As I remember things, the 'paper control loop' was made out of some kind of Mylar-based material. Certainly, 'normal' paper tape was simply too fragile for this use. The control loop had to be at least the same length as the page being controlled (or a multiple, if the physical page was very short), but we never had 'clever' stuff that required holes punched in anything other than 'channel 1'. If you didn't re-tension the loop sufficiently when changing over to a different one, the printer would go 'hunting' for channel-1, spewing paper out at the back at a high rate of knots... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
charl...@mcn.org (Charles Mills) writes: > And 1443 (?). I had a client that had a 1403 variant that was a little > slower but included a 16-or-so column card reader. You could print > invoices on pre-punched cards and read the punching to make sure you > were printing on the right card (no spool, obviously). It printed on > "160-column" cards, that is, two 80-column cards with a tearable fold > in the middle. One-half was the document the customer returned with a > check; one half was for his records. > > 1401 was a processor, not a printer, the "commercial" machine that > preceded the 360, the "all-purpose" computer. (70xx was the > "scientific" series.) > > Agree on the 3211. > > There is just zero doubt in my mind that the 1403 printer used a > "special" (not TTY-like) paper tape, solely for carriage control, not > "data." re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2017.html#37 Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) we eventually put 1443 on 360/65 for keeping up with console output, things got so that 1052-7 couldn't keep up with all the messages ... and so had to be filtered down. 1401 was low/mid-range ... 70xx was high end https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_705 The IBM 700/7000 series has six completely different ways of storing data and instructions: First (36/18-bit words): 701 (Defense Calculator) Scientific (36-bit words): 704, 709, 7090, 7094, 7040, 7044 Commercial (variable length character strings): 702, 705, 7080 1400 series (variable length character strings): 7010 Decimal (10 digit words): 7070, 7072, 7074 Supercomputer (64-bit words): 7030 "Stretch" ... a 360 was to merge commercial & scientific in single architecture 360s came with various additional microcode features that implemented earlier architectures http://ibm-1401.info/1401in360.html#360-1401MicroCode some of my old posts on 360s with microcode feature that implemented earlier architectures http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006q.html#55 Was FORTRAN buggy? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#71 IBM tried to kill VM? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#52 IBM 1401 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009l.html#10 August 7, 1944: today is the 65th Anniversary of the Birth of the Computer http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009p.html#74 The 50th Anniversary of the Legendary IBM 1401 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#56 You know you've been Lisp hacking to long when http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#11 Rare Apple I computer sells for $216,000 in London http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#53 You almost NEVER see these for sale, own a 360 console http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011g.html#70 History of byte addressing http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011n.html#84 Scanning JES3 JCL http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#69 model numbers; was re: World's worst programming environment? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#23 Scary Sysprogs and educating those 'kids' http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#17 System/360 celebration set for ten cities; 1964 pricing for oneweek http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#15 What were the complaints of binary code programmers that not accept Assembly? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016d.html#73 Is it a lost cause? -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
"...There is just zero doubt in my mind that the 1403 printer used a "special" (not TTY-like) paper tape, solely for carriage control, not "data."..." That's my memory, too. Ours was a 1403-N1 aka '1403-Nancy' - with a lid that was raised on motor-driven screws when the paper either jammed or ran out (or the 'OPEN' button was pressed) thereby exposing delicate ears to the almighty racket of the chain-control motor. Extra points could be earned by raising the lid when printing was actually taking place, thus making normal speech impossible. As I remember things, the 'paper control loop' was made out of some kind of Mylar-based material. Certainly, 'normal' paper tape was simply too fragile for this use. The control loop had to be at least the same length as the page being controlled (or a multiple, if the physical page was very short), but we never had 'clever' stuff that required holes punched in anything other than 'channel 1'. If you didn't re-tension the loop sufficiently when changing over to a different one, the printer would go 'hunting' for channel-1, spewing paper out at the back at a high rate of knots... On 17 January 2017 at 15:42, Charles Mills wrote: > 1403, not 1401. > > And 1443 (?). I had a client that had a 1403 variant that was a little > slower but included a 16-or-so column card reader. You could print invoices > on pre-punched cards and read the punching to make sure you were printing > on the right card (no spool, obviously). It printed on "160-column" cards, > that is, two 80-column cards with a tearable fold in the middle. One-half > was the document the customer returned with a check; one half was for his > records. > > 1401 was a processor, not a printer, the "commercial" machine that > preceded the 360, the "all-purpose" computer. (70xx was the "scientific" > series.) > > Agree on the 3211. > > There is just zero doubt in my mind that the 1403 printer used a "special" > (not TTY-like) paper tape, solely for carriage control, not "data." > > Charles > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Vernooij, Kees (ITOPT1) - KLM > Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 7:24 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) > > > Gil: > That is not how I remember it at all. The Carriage tape on a 1403/3211(?) > was just for that machine. i.e. skip to channel x As I have said before I > do not ever remember seeing any IBM device or computer that had a paper > tape reader/writer. > This goes back to the 360’s . I just got off the phone with a friend and > he does not remember it for the 14xx either. > > Ed > -- > > 1403/3211? It was for the 1401/1403. You had to load it during setup. In > Dutch: 'het bandje' or 'the strap'. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
[Default] On 17 Jan 2017 07:42:04 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main charl...@mcn.org (Charles Mills) wrote: >1403, not 1401. > >And 1443 (?). I had a client that had a 1403 variant that was a little slower >but included a 16-or-so column card reader. You could print invoices on >pre-punched cards and read the punching to make sure you were printing on the >right card (no spool, obviously). It printed on "160-column" cards, that is, >two 80-column cards with a tearable fold in the middle. One-half was the >document the customer returned with a check; one half was for his records. > >1401 was a processor, not a printer, the "commercial" machine that preceded >the 360, the "all-purpose" computer. (70xx was the "scientific" series.) The 1401/1410, 705 - 7080 were character machines with decimal arithmetic, the 707 - 707x were word machines with decimal arithmetic, and the 704 - 704x and 709 -709x were 36 bit word with binary arithmetic. The 1620 was a weird machine for scientific use with decimal arithmetic via table lookup. Clark Morris Clark Morris > >Agree on the 3211. > >There is just zero doubt in my mind that the 1403 printer used a "special" >(not TTY-like) paper tape, solely for carriage control, not "data." > >Charles > >-Original Message- >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On >Behalf Of Vernooij, Kees (ITOPT1) - KLM >Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 7:24 AM >To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) > > >Gil: >That is not how I remember it at all. The Carriage tape on a 1403/3211(?) was >just for that machine. i.e. skip to channel x As I have said before I do not >ever remember seeing any IBM device or computer that had a paper tape >reader/writer. >This goes back to the 360s . I just got off the phone with a friend and he >does not remember it for the 14xx either. > >Ed >-- > >1403/3211? It was for the 1401/1403. You had to load it during setup. In >Dutch: 'het bandje' or 'the strap'. > >-- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 19:29:19 -0800, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote: >edgould1948 (Edward Gould) writes: >> That is not how I remember it at all. The Carriage tape on a >> 1403/3211(?) was just for that machine. i.e. skip to channel x As I >> have said before I do not ever remember seeing any IBM device or >> computer that had a paper tape reader/writer. This goes back to the >> 360’s . I just got off the phone with a friend and he does not >> remember it for the 14xx either. > >2671 paper tape reader and 2822 paper tape reader control >http://www.beagle-ears.com/lars/engineer/comphist/c20-1684/fig089.jpg > >IBM reference >https://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/reference/glossary_1.html > >1050 [2] The 1050 system consisted of the 1051 control unit, 1052 >printer-keyboard, 1053 printer, 1054 paper tape reader, 1055 paper tape >punch and 1056 card reader. These various components were withdrawn from >marketing between February 1974 and June 1978. > > > >360 bibliograpy >http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/ibm/360/bibliography/GA22-6822-20_System_360_and_System_370_Bibliography_Jul73.pdf > >GA24-3388 IBM 2671 PAPER TAPE READER. IBM 2822 PAPER TAPE READER >CONTROL COMPONENT DESCRIPTION > >GA33-4500 IBM SYSTEM/360 COMPONENT DESCRIPTIONS - IBM 2826 PAPER TAPE >CONTROL UNIT 1017 PAPER TAPE READER 1018 PAPER TAPE PUNCH > >... > >1401 installation manual, pg22, fig17, ibm 1011 paper tape reader >http://ibm-1401.info/C24-1404-3-1401-Inst-Man.pdf > > >GC20-0032-3 System/32 bibliography pg2-4, GA21-9240 3741 reader/punch >attachmen feature, IBM 1017 paper tape reader >http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/ibm/system32/GC20-0032-3_System32_Bibliography_Apr78.pdf > Another link related to this subject: http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/ibm/360/os/R21.7_Apr73/GC26-3794-1_OS_Data_Management_Macro_Instructions_Rel_21.7_Jun73.pdf In the description of the DCB macro for BSAM on pages 69 and 71 (83rd and 85th PDF pages) is a description of DEVD=PT for paper tape devices. Ditto for QSAM on pages 97 and 99. What's more, you can code DEVD=PT on the lastest z/OS systems and it will be accepted, even though it is not documented. You can also find the words "PAPER TAPE" in comments in the DCB macro on z/OS. Bill -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
1403, not 1401. And 1443 (?). I had a client that had a 1403 variant that was a little slower but included a 16-or-so column card reader. You could print invoices on pre-punched cards and read the punching to make sure you were printing on the right card (no spool, obviously). It printed on "160-column" cards, that is, two 80-column cards with a tearable fold in the middle. One-half was the document the customer returned with a check; one half was for his records. 1401 was a processor, not a printer, the "commercial" machine that preceded the 360, the "all-purpose" computer. (70xx was the "scientific" series.) Agree on the 3211. There is just zero doubt in my mind that the 1403 printer used a "special" (not TTY-like) paper tape, solely for carriage control, not "data." Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Vernooij, Kees (ITOPT1) - KLM Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 7:24 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) Gil: That is not how I remember it at all. The Carriage tape on a 1403/3211(?) was just for that machine. i.e. skip to channel x As I have said before I do not ever remember seeing any IBM device or computer that had a paper tape reader/writer. This goes back to the 360’s . I just got off the phone with a friend and he does not remember it for the 14xx either. Ed -- 1403/3211? It was for the 1401/1403. You had to load it during setup. In Dutch: 'het bandje' or 'the strap'. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
Gil: That is not how I remember it at all. The Carriage tape on a 1403/3211(?) was just for that machine. i.e. skip to channel x As I have said before I do not ever remember seeing any IBM device or computer that had a paper tape reader/writer. This goes back to the 360’s . I just got off the phone with a friend and he does not remember it for the 14xx either. Ed -- 1403/3211? It was for the 1401/1403. You had to load it during setup. In Dutch: 'het bandje' or 'the strap'. The 3211 used a software FCB (Forms Control Buffer) to define the printpage and the channels on it. You created and compiled the FCB to the SYS1.IMAGELIB and specified the FCB with your SYSOUT statement. The FCB was then loaded into the 3211 during setup of each print job. Later the Kodak microfiche printer used the FCB and its print handling to transmit the so called 'jobset' to the machine that defined the layout of the microfiche. Kees. For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 20:12:02 -0600, Edward Gould wrote: >> On Jan 16, 2017, at 10:52 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: >> >> On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 07:00:27 -0600, Tom Marchant wrote: >>> >>> Yep. That's what I was thinking of. I didn't say that it was used for I/O. >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage_control_tape > > ... I just got off the phone with a friend and he does not remember it for > the 14xx either. > Nonetheless, see the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage_control_tape -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
> On Jan 16, 2017, at 11:07 PM, retired mainframer > wrote: > > While an individual's experience may be typical, it is seldom exhaustive. > > We had a paper tape punch on our system well past 1977. I first used it in > 1973 on a 370/155 but I know it was transferred from an older system and > survived several CPU upgrades. The corresponding paper tape readers were > attached to IBM 4PI systems that were installed on a fleet of aircraft. The > readers were removed from the aircraft over an extended period sometime > starting in 1984 after years of very infrequent use, if at all. I expect the > punch remained available till the last reader was finally removed. > > We finally gave up on the black paper tape and started using green Mylar tape > which was borderline indestructible, though subject to crinkling. The used > tape was saved for Christmas decorations. I am guessing this was the military, right? I was in the military for 3 years and never saw one and we had 360’s. Although I was in Germany the army seemed to have a UNIVAC presence and thank god no paper tape. Ed > >> -Original Message- >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On >> Behalf Of Edward Gould >> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 6:12 PM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) >> Gil: >> That is not how I remember it at all. The Carriage tape on a 1403/3211(?) >> was just for that >> machine. i.e. skip to channel x >> As I have said before I do not ever remember seeing any IBM device or >> computer that had a >> paper tape reader/writer. >> This goes back to the 360’s . I just got off the phone with a friend and he >> does not >> remember it for the 14xx either. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
While an individual's experience may be typical, it is seldom exhaustive. We had a paper tape punch on our system well past 1977. I first used it in 1973 on a 370/155 but I know it was transferred from an older system and survived several CPU upgrades. The corresponding paper tape readers were attached to IBM 4PI systems that were installed on a fleet of aircraft. The readers were removed from the aircraft over an extended period sometime starting in 1984 after years of very infrequent use, if at all. I expect the punch remained available till the last reader was finally removed. We finally gave up on the black paper tape and started using green Mylar tape which was borderline indestructible, though subject to crinkling. The used tape was saved for Christmas decorations. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Edward Gould > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 6:12 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) > Gil: > That is not how I remember it at all. The Carriage tape on a 1403/3211(?) was > just for that > machine. i.e. skip to channel x > As I have said before I do not ever remember seeing any IBM device or > computer that had a > paper tape reader/writer. > This goes back to the 360’s . I just got off the phone with a friend and he > does not > remember it for the 14xx either. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
edgould1...@comcast.net (Edward Gould) writes: > That is not how I remember it at all. The Carriage tape on a > 1403/3211(?) was just for that machine. i.e. skip to channel x As I > have said before I do not ever remember seeing any IBM device or > computer that had a paper tape reader/writer. This goes back to the > 360’s . I just got off the phone with a friend and he does not > remember it for the 14xx either. 2671 paper tape reader and 2822 paper tape reader control http://www.beagle-ears.com/lars/engineer/comphist/c20-1684/fig089.jpg IBM reference https://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/reference/glossary_1.html 1050 [2] The 1050 system consisted of the 1051 control unit, 1052 printer-keyboard, 1053 printer, 1054 paper tape reader, 1055 paper tape punch and 1056 card reader. These various components were withdrawn from marketing between February 1974 and June 1978. 360 bibliograpy http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/ibm/360/bibliography/GA22-6822-20_System_360_and_System_370_Bibliography_Jul73.pdf GA24-3388 IBM 2671 PAPER TAPE READER. IBM 2822 PAPER TAPE READER CONTROL COMPONENT DESCRIPTION GA33-4500 IBM SYSTEM/360 COMPONENT DESCRIPTIONS - IBM 2826 PAPER TAPE CONTROL UNIT 1017 PAPER TAPE READER 1018 PAPER TAPE PUNCH ... 1401 installation manual, pg22, fig17, ibm 1011 paper tape reader http://ibm-1401.info/C24-1404-3-1401-Inst-Man.pdf GC20-0032-3 System/32 bibliography pg2-4, GA21-9240 3741 reader/punch attachmen feature, IBM 1017 paper tape reader http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/ibm/system32/GC20-0032-3_System32_Bibliography_Apr78.pdf -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
> On Jan 16, 2017, at 10:52 AM, Paul Gilmartin > <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 07:00:27 -0600, Tom Marchant wrote: > >> On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 00:15:38 +, Vince Coen wrote: >> >>> If no where else it was on the printers for channel control. >> >> Yep. That's what I was thinking of. I didn't say that it was used for I/O. >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage_control_tape >> > I recall in that era that IBM printers used an idiosyncratic tape, as in > the Wikipedia illustration, requiring a proprietary punch (or would a > loose-leaf punch work?) CDC printers used a conventional Teletype > tape. Usually a collection of tape loops hung on a pegboard near > the printer. > > -- gil Gil: That is not how I remember it at all. The Carriage tape on a 1403/3211(?) was just for that machine. i.e. skip to channel x As I have said before I do not ever remember seeing any IBM device or computer that had a paper tape reader/writer. This goes back to the 360’s . I just got off the phone with a friend and he does not remember it for the 14xx either. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
> It was Bad Practice not to have at least one hole punched in every channel. Right! Had forgotten that! If a program skipped to channel 'n' and there was no 'n' hole punch the 14xx would perform a high-speed eject of an entire box of printer paper. Fun to watch, but earned the perpetrator the everlasting enmity of the operators. But you couldn't do all the "safety" punches on one line: it would weaken the tape too much at that point. You had to do kind of a "stairstep" of spare punches. Great illustration of tape and punch here: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IA1R-KQhpjg/UZm_OaHlLDI/FtI/sV4Ab7vugcs/s 1600/Carriage+Tape.jpg Thinking about what I wrote below, even though the tape was tough, it did not last forever. The holes were read with mechanical brass wire brushes IIRC, and eventually they tore up the carriage tape and it had to be replaced, usually at the most inopportune moment. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 10:39 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 09:27:31 -0800, Charles Mills wrote: >It was exactly as shown in the Wikipedia photo. It was a very durable, tough, high-fiber paper, not at all the same as TTY punch tape -- other than the superficial similarity. After all, it made a trip around the sensors every page that the 14xx printed, boxes and boxes of greenbar every day. (Or every other page, perhaps. I seem to recall that there was a minimum length to the tape and it was not uncommon to make one tape loop account for two printed pages.) There was a special punch http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/physical-object/ibm/102668343.l g.jpg, but I seem to recall that in a pinch one could use a loose-leaf or similar punch. > I recall visiting a site that had separate channel(s) for recto (and verso?) sheets in fanfolded paper. It was Bad Practice not to have at least one hole punched in every channel. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 09:27:31 -0800, Charles Mills wrote: >It was exactly as shown in the Wikipedia photo. It was a very durable, tough, >high-fiber paper, not at all the same as TTY punch tape -- other than the >superficial similarity. After all, it made a trip around the sensors every >page that the 14xx printed, boxes and boxes of greenbar every day. (Or every >other page, perhaps. I seem to recall that there was a minimum length to the >tape and it was not uncommon to make one tape loop account for two printed >pages.) There was a special punch >http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/physical-object/ibm/102668343.lg.jpg, > but I seem to recall that in a pinch one could use a loose-leaf or similar >punch. > I recall visiting a site that had separate channel(s) for recto (and verso?) sheets in fanfolded paper. It was Bad Practice not to have at least one hole punched in every channel. >-Original Message- >> >>Yep. That's what I was thinking of. I didn't say that it was used for I/O. >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage_control_tape >> >I recall in that era that IBM printers used an idiosyncratic tape, as in the >Wikipedia illustration, requiring a proprietary punch (or would a loose-leaf >punch work?) CDC printers used a conventional Teletype tape. Usually a >collection of tape loops hung on a pegboard near the printer. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
It was exactly as shown in the Wikipedia photo. It was a very durable, tough, high-fiber paper, not at all the same as TTY punch tape -- other than the superficial similarity. After all, it made a trip around the sensors every page that the 14xx printed, boxes and boxes of greenbar every day. (Or every other page, perhaps. I seem to recall that there was a minimum length to the tape and it was not uncommon to make one tape loop account for two printed pages.) There was a special punch http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/physical-object/ibm/102668343.lg.jpg, but I seem to recall that in a pinch one could use a loose-leaf or similar punch. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 8:53 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 07:00:27 -0600, Tom Marchant wrote: >On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 00:15:38 +, Vince Coen wrote: > >>If no where else it was on the printers for channel control. > >Yep. That's what I was thinking of. I didn't say that it was used for I/O. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage_control_tape > I recall in that era that IBM printers used an idiosyncratic tape, as in the Wikipedia illustration, requiring a proprietary punch (or would a loose-leaf punch work?) CDC printers used a conventional Teletype tape. Usually a collection of tape loops hung on a pegboard near the printer. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 07:00:27 -0600, Tom Marchant wrote: >On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 00:15:38 +, Vince Coen wrote: > >>If no where else it was on the printers for channel control. > >Yep. That's what I was thinking of. I didn't say that it was used for I/O. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage_control_tape > I recall in that era that IBM printers used an idiosyncratic tape, as in the Wikipedia illustration, requiring a proprietary punch (or would a loose-leaf punch work?) CDC printers used a conventional Teletype tape. Usually a collection of tape loops hung on a pegboard near the printer. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 00:15:38 +, Vince Coen wrote: >If no where else it was on the printers for channel control. Yep. That's what I was thinking of. I didn't say that it was used for I/O. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage_control_tape >> From: "Tom Marchant" <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 2:21:58 PM >> Subject: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) >> >> Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. >> >> What was it used for? -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
Back to the early 70s and the start of my career... as a lowly trainee operator on an ICL 1904 at the local University... The programmers would supply their compiled programs in the form of spools of paper tape, just because the spools were physically compact. After reading in the same program a few times, the tape would begin to wear and eventually become so fragile that it would wreck in the reader. At which time it became the job of yours truly to repair the damage by duplicating the wrecked portion of tape, one hole at a time, on a manual punch, then splicing the new piece in to the original spool. Ah... them were the days... I've seen mentions in this thread about '5-hole' and '8-hole' tape... I remember being taught about 5-hole tape, but I never actually saw any. But I've no memories at all about '8-hole' tape. The tape mentioned above was had 7 holes across the width. Just as has been described with the '5-hole' tape, there were 'Shift In' and 'Shift Out' codes to allow for switching between alphabetic and numeric code sequences. On 16 January 2017 at 07:41, Randy Hudson wrote: > In article <0ef78383-f053-5127-1c69-daf5709a5...@acm.org> Joel Ewing > wrote: > > > On 01/13/2017 02:21 PM, Tom Marchant wrote: > >> On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:56:57 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: > >> > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_tape > >>> About 1974-75, I lived with my dad, manager of a Kroger store. At > >>> night he would insert various strips of punch film into a reader to > >>> report the store's daily transactions. > >> Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. > >> > >> What was it used for? > >> > > I would question the "almost every mainframe" part, unless you possibly > > restrict consideration to non-IBM mainframes. IBM mainframes more > > commonly used punched cards as input/output media, with punched tape > > only available as a cheaper (and less capable) alternative to cards on > > smaller systems. Of the roughly 10 IBM systems I had contact with > > during 1960's and 1970's, only one had paper tape I/O. > > He's referring to the carriage control tape that was used in lineprinters. > It was not punched under mainframe control, but by operators, as part of > helping the mainframe control the forms within the printer. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
In article <0ef78383-f053-5127-1c69-daf5709a5...@acm.org> Joel Ewing wrote: > On 01/13/2017 02:21 PM, Tom Marchant wrote: >> On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:56:57 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: >> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_tape >>> About 1974-75, I lived with my dad, manager of a Kroger store. At >>> night he would insert various strips of punch film into a reader to >>> report the store's daily transactions. >> Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. >> >> What was it used for? >> > I would question the "almost every mainframe" part, unless you possibly > restrict consideration to non-IBM mainframes. IBM mainframes more > commonly used punched cards as input/output media, with punched tape > only available as a cheaper (and less capable) alternative to cards on > smaller systems. Of the roughly 10 IBM systems I had contact with > during 1960's and 1970's, only one had paper tape I/O. He's referring to the carriage control tape that was used in lineprinters. It was not punched under mainframe control, but by operators, as part of helping the mainframe control the forms within the printer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
On 01/13/2017 02:21 PM, Tom Marchant wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:56:57 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_tape >> About 1974-75, I lived with my dad, manager of a Kroger store. At >> night he would insert various strips of punch film into a reader to >> report the store's daily transactions. > Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. > > What was it used for? > I would question the "almost every mainframe" part, unless you possibly restrict consideration to non-IBM mainframes. IBM mainframes more commonly used punched cards as input/output media, with punched tape only available as a cheaper (and less capable) alternative to cards on smaller systems. Of the roughly 10 IBM systems I had contact with during 1960's and 1970's, only one had paper tape I/O. The mechanical simplicity of feeding continuous paper tape vs complex mechanisms to reliably feed individual cards, and having to sense or punch a small number of channels on paper tape vs the 80 columns for a card, surely made paper tape devices cheaper to design and build. I suspect paper tape devices may have been more common on non-IBM mainframes. Unit record punched card equipment was the core of IBM's business prior to manufacturing electronic computers, so at the beginning of the computer age IBM would have already had the expertise and patents for building reliable punched card equipment. Other vendors probably couldn't supply competitive card equipment at the time.. Joel C. Ewing -- Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, AR jcew...@acm.org -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
"Holey" ones! :-) Al Nims Systems Admin/Programmer 3 UFIT University of Florida (352) 273-1298 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Phil Smith Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 10:28 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) My dad spent a lot of time in Czechoslovakia. His best friend there was an engineer, and used to do programming using a paper-tape machine-but they didn't have paper tape, so they'd use old movie film from Soviet movie industry. Always wondered what kinds of images were on those frames! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
I guess, Konrad Zuse in the 1930s used movie film for controlling his
machines, too.
The instructions were on the (movie film) tape, and by stepping the
tape, the machine
executed the instructions on the tape. There were no control
instructions, no conditional
branches (of course); only an instruction which stopped the machine.
You could "code a loop" by simply looping the tape :-)
Later Zuse machines in the 1950s of course had conditional instructions
added and
all that stuff, and fetched their instructions from drum or core memory.
BTW: the Telefunken mainframe from the 1970s was boot loaded from paper
tape
("Lochstreifen"); it contained the very first stages of the operating
system.
When that (sort of) BIOS was installed, it fetched the other parts of the
operating system from a sort of fixed head disk called "Trommelspeicher".
On IBM mainframes of that time, they invented 8 inch floppy disks to do
this,
if I recall correctly.
Kind regards
Bernd
Am 15.01.2017 um 04:27 schrieb Phil Smith:
My dad spent a lot of time in Czechoslovakia. His best friend there was an
engineer, and used to do programming using a paper-tape machine-but they didn't
have paper tape, so they'd use old movie film from Soviet movie industry.
Always wondered what kinds of images were on those frames!
--
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Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
My dad spent a lot of time in Czechoslovakia. His best friend there was an engineer, and used to do programming using a paper-tape machine-but they didn't have paper tape, so they'd use old movie film from Soviet movie industry. Always wondered what kinds of images were on those frames! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
The submarine navy went a step further with the five hole TTY tape in a system called HARE - High (speed?) Radio (emission?) for both speed and security in 1964. Connected to the Collins URC transmitter, each hole in a character caused a transmission on a different HF frequency, and so there were a dozen receiver sites all around the world listening simultaneously for a signal on all five frequencies (that changed hourly) at 250 words per minute, and the messages were encoded and typically only 30-40 characters long, so the HARE transmission from the submarine was undetectable. We tested south of Greenland and were copied by seven receiver sites on four continents. (And, yes, the HF antenna must be above the water to transmit HF radio signals - a 30 foot vertical on the top of the snorkel mast works great.) Barry Merrill -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Grinsell, Don Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 4:12 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) I remember using paper tape in high school in the mid-70's. Punch cards in college and my first job. I joined the army in 1981. I was eventually assigned to a signal unit in 1984 and lo and behold I had paper tape again in our radio teletype vans. We transcribed the messages onto the tape and then powered up the hf radio for a relatively shorter transmission window. This was during the cold war and the theory was that if you were on air for much longer than 30 seconds at a time our friends on the other side of the iron curtain could triangulate your position and pretty much ruin your day. "The power of accurate observation is often mistaken for cynicism by those who have not got it." -- George Bernard Shaw -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
I used paper tape when I was in the Navy from 1969 to 1979 and then into the 1980's when I was in the Reserves. I was a CTO or Cryptologic/Communications Technician Operator and we used paper tape with the Teletype machines to send and receive messages within our communication centers. On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:13 AM Bernd Oppolzer wrote: > This German Wikipedia article about Lochstreifen (paper tape) has some > nice pictures: > https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lochstreifen#Lochstreifenstanzer > > and this is a PDF about the display peripherals of our Telefunken machine: > > ftp://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/telefunken/tr440/doku/SIG100_SIG50_Mar1972.pdf > > you can see pictures of the text display SIG 50 and the graphics display > SIG 100, > which also had the world's first "computer mouse", the so-called > Rollkugel, attached to it: > http://www.oldmouse.com/mouse/misc/telefunken.shtml > > The article mentions the teletype Telefunken FSR 105 with a 5-hole paper > tape, > but I recall that at the Stuttgart installation there were General > Electric teletypes > with an 8-hole paper tape attached. I could not find pictures or > descriptions of this type. > I used this type regularly, when I was a student in Stuttgart from 1977 on; > until the machine went out of service in 1981. > > Kind regards > > Bernd Oppolzer > > > Am 13.01.2017 um 23:16 schrieb Bernd Oppolzer: > > BTW: the teletypes were General Electric devices, and the paper tape > > had 8 holes, not 5. > > So every row on the tape could hold one 8-bit byte; I don't know what > > coding it was. > > The machine had neither ASCII nor EBCDIC; it was another special > > Telefunken code (Zentralcode). > > > > The General Electric teletypes and the display terminals (text and > > even vector graphic devices) > > were not directly attached to the TR 440; there was a TR 86 S > > satellite computer doing the I/O work. > > This was in the late 1970s. > > > > Kind regards > > > > Bernd > > > > > > Am 13.01.2017 um 23:05 schrieb Bernd Oppolzer: > >> When I worked as a student at the university of Stuttgart, Germany > >> with the Telefunken TR 440 mainframe, before I had access to the > >> display terminals, > >> I had to use the card punch (IBM 29, IIRC). But there were also some > >> teletypes > >> attached to the machine, which could be used for a time sharing > >> dialog, and some > >> of them had a paper tape reader/puncher attached. > >> > >> So you could use this paper tape in the following way: > >> > >> when finishing work on one day, you could print your source code to > >> the teletype; > >> before output starts, you switched on the paper tape punch, and this > >> way you produced > >> a paper tape of your source code. (You had to finish before 7.15 pm, > >> that was GSP-ENDE, > >> end of dialog, otherwise your work was lost). > >> > >> Next day, you used the paper tape to read your source code again into > >> the machine > >> via the same teletype. > >> > >> This was very convenient; the paper tape was much smaller than a big > >> box of punched cards > >> and you hadn't to wait for the operator to process your punched cards > >> (which was closed shop). > >> We didn't have access to the LFD (langfristige Datenhaltung = long > >> term storage on disks etc) > >> at that time. > >> > >> Kind regards > >> > >> Bernd > >> > >> > >> > >> Am 13.01.2017 um 22:26 schrieb Mike Myers: > >>> For the education of the newbies, I'm going to take paper tape back > >>> to the '60s. I was in the Air Force from 1960-1964 as an electronics > >>> technician maintaining cryptographic equipment, some of which was > >>> used with teletype equipment. Teletypes used a 5-bit code called > >>> Baudot code. For those of you who have heard the term baud before, > >>> it represented a single character in the Baudot code. There was a > >>> specific code that shifted between letters and numbers/figures > >>> modes, so that there could be more than 32 values represented. > >>> > >>> Messages could be punched onto a paper tape from a keyboard and then > >>> later transmitted through a tape reader into a communications link. > >>> Or, on the receiving end, a message could either be printed by a > >>> teletype or punched into a paper tape for further transmission or > >>> later printing. The technology was eventually used with early > >>> computers, as you are hearing here. > >>> > >>> Mike Myers > >>> Mentor Services Corporation > >>> > >>> On 01/13/2017 03:35 PM, David W Noon wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 14:21:58 -0600, Tom Marchant > (000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu) wrote about "Paper > tape > (was Re: Hidden Figures)" (in > <3742476116017335.wa.m42tomibmmainyahoo@listserv.ua.edu>): > > > On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:56:57 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: > > > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_tape > >> About 1974-75, I lived with my dad, manager of a Kroger store. At > >> night he would insert variou
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
This German Wikipedia article about Lochstreifen (paper tape) has some nice pictures: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lochstreifen#Lochstreifenstanzer and this is a PDF about the display peripherals of our Telefunken machine: ftp://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/telefunken/tr440/doku/SIG100_SIG50_Mar1972.pdf you can see pictures of the text display SIG 50 and the graphics display SIG 100, which also had the world's first "computer mouse", the so-called Rollkugel, attached to it: http://www.oldmouse.com/mouse/misc/telefunken.shtml The article mentions the teletype Telefunken FSR 105 with a 5-hole paper tape, but I recall that at the Stuttgart installation there were General Electric teletypes with an 8-hole paper tape attached. I could not find pictures or descriptions of this type. I used this type regularly, when I was a student in Stuttgart from 1977 on; until the machine went out of service in 1981. Kind regards Bernd Oppolzer Am 13.01.2017 um 23:16 schrieb Bernd Oppolzer: BTW: the teletypes were General Electric devices, and the paper tape had 8 holes, not 5. So every row on the tape could hold one 8-bit byte; I don't know what coding it was. The machine had neither ASCII nor EBCDIC; it was another special Telefunken code (Zentralcode). The General Electric teletypes and the display terminals (text and even vector graphic devices) were not directly attached to the TR 440; there was a TR 86 S satellite computer doing the I/O work. This was in the late 1970s. Kind regards Bernd Am 13.01.2017 um 23:05 schrieb Bernd Oppolzer: When I worked as a student at the university of Stuttgart, Germany with the Telefunken TR 440 mainframe, before I had access to the display terminals, I had to use the card punch (IBM 29, IIRC). But there were also some teletypes attached to the machine, which could be used for a time sharing dialog, and some of them had a paper tape reader/puncher attached. So you could use this paper tape in the following way: when finishing work on one day, you could print your source code to the teletype; before output starts, you switched on the paper tape punch, and this way you produced a paper tape of your source code. (You had to finish before 7.15 pm, that was GSP-ENDE, end of dialog, otherwise your work was lost). Next day, you used the paper tape to read your source code again into the machine via the same teletype. This was very convenient; the paper tape was much smaller than a big box of punched cards and you hadn't to wait for the operator to process your punched cards (which was closed shop). We didn't have access to the LFD (langfristige Datenhaltung = long term storage on disks etc) at that time. Kind regards Bernd Am 13.01.2017 um 22:26 schrieb Mike Myers: For the education of the newbies, I'm going to take paper tape back to the '60s. I was in the Air Force from 1960-1964 as an electronics technician maintaining cryptographic equipment, some of which was used with teletype equipment. Teletypes used a 5-bit code called Baudot code. For those of you who have heard the term baud before, it represented a single character in the Baudot code. There was a specific code that shifted between letters and numbers/figures modes, so that there could be more than 32 values represented. Messages could be punched onto a paper tape from a keyboard and then later transmitted through a tape reader into a communications link. Or, on the receiving end, a message could either be printed by a teletype or punched into a paper tape for further transmission or later printing. The technology was eventually used with early computers, as you are hearing here. Mike Myers Mentor Services Corporation On 01/13/2017 03:35 PM, David W Noon wrote: On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 14:21:58 -0600, Tom Marchant (000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu) wrote about "Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)" (in <3742476116017335.wa.m42tomibmmainyahoo@listserv.ua.edu>): On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:56:57 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_tape About 1974-75, I lived with my dad, manager of a Kroger store. At night he would insert various strips of punch film into a reader to report the store's daily transactions. Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. What was it used for? In the mid 1970s I was working for a multi-national chemical company in Melbourne, Australia. We had 2 paper tape readers and 1 paper tape punch. They were used mostly for threatening young programmers who spoke derisively about punched cards. ... :-) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@lis
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
> On Jan 13, 2017, at 2:21 PM, Tom Marchant > <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:56:57 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_tape >> About 1974-75, I lived with my dad, manager of a Kroger store. At >> night he would insert various strips of punch film into a reader to >> report the store's daily transactions. > > Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. > > What was it used for? I have been in the mainframe since 1969 and I don’t ever remember paper tape, whether it was for the 1401 or the 7070 or the 360. I must have missed it but I don’t think so. Ed > > -- > Tom Marchant > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
Early 029. Course when I got back to class. Could I please program the 029 to do tabbing and verification for data entry folks? I guess-might have to rip a few drums out of the keypunch lab, but they don't need them. In a message dated 1/13/2017 5:53:21 P.M. Central Standard Time, 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu writes: Early 029 or late 026 era? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
Paper tape was there you just did not see it unless you was an operator. If no where else it was on the printers for channel control. This admittedly was wider than the normal 8 channel tape for many of the newer printers. Tape was used for very small updates (well at least by me) to a program source as this was quicker than sending to the punch room for processing that usually cost 1 - 2 days depending on site. Oh, this was in the 60's and possibly early 70's when it started dying out but many sites did not through them away. Luckily the tape hand punches you could just leave it in your desk or put it in the pocket when leaving for the day if you wanted to do some mods after dinner. The portable card punch was sightly bigger :) - more a case of putting it into your (brief) case with some blank cards but no printing facility of course - for that you had to visit the punch room and use one of the URCs (Unit Record devises) that read them and printed content along the top. Sorry for that - I go back a bit :) Vince On 13/01/17 20:25, Carmen Vitullo wrote: First time I saw paper tape was in school, Vo-Tech, UNIVAC system in 1974-75, once in the real world starting @ Sears in 1977 never saw paper tape again and not since, lots of cards no paper tape . - Original Message - From: "Tom Marchant" <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 2:21:58 PM Subject: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:56:57 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_tape About 1974-75, I lived with my dad, manager of a Kroger store. At night he would insert various strips of punch film into a reader to report the store's daily transactions. Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. What was it used for? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Memories (was: RE: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 23:44:51 +, Lester, Bob wrote: > Dartmouth? I got into quite a bit of trouble when I got a little > over-familiar with the DTSS system at Dartmouth - one connected to the USMMA > (among others, I think). This was around 1975/6. > > Crashed it once (via acoustic modem in the library on-campus). Couldn't > believe it happened, so of course I did it again. Then I ran away - I was 16 > years old! > > Been hooked on IT ever since. :-) > Sometimes operators would neglect disabling command escape on Hayes-compatible modems, and with a carefully timed data stream I could take control of the modem and dial out. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
(mostly dumb trivia follows) > Anyone ever play with fanfold paper tape? As far as I know, IBM products "never"* used fanfold paper tape, but rather spools. The 1620 had a big paper tape reader, as did the 1130 and 1800 minicomputers. Interesting, when the System/7 came out, IBM just rebadged ASR33s from Teletype, calling them 5028s. When I was digging out the remains of a surplus place in Los Alamos (the infamous Black Hole), some of the items that I found were a pair of IBM 870 systems. These are "Steampunk Wordprocessors", built on a 026 keypunch. Each 870 has a paper tape reader, paper tape punch, card reader and punch, plus a model B typewriter. All this fun, with tubes, relays, plugboards, blinkenlights, cards, and tapes, were used to convert data from the labs various minicomputer paper tape reels to something that could be turned into fancy looking lab reports. I also found an 047 - basically a paper tape to card converter, also made on an 026 chassis. These were used, somewhat like with the 870s, to convert the various labs minicomputer output paper tapes to something the 7094 could understand - cards. There was a S/360 channel connected paper tape reader as well, whose number escapes me right now. There is at least one in preservation now. -- Will, happy because I just took delivery of a 3880. * Start the countdown to when someone brings up an example to prove I am wrong! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 18:23:13 -0500, Randy Hudson wrote: >In article <1b40a37.6eb3673.45aab...@aol.com> Edward Finnell wrote: > >> I started at Southern Bell Co-op student in '66 on a 33ASR writing Basic >> Programs on I think it was a GE635 at one of the Banks in Atlanta. > >BASIC? I think Dartmouth BASIC was created around 1964, but I didn't >realize it was used in banking by 1966. > >> There were eight holes but the 4th from left was the sprocket feed. If >> you put the tape in upside down it would saw it in two. > >As I recall it, there were 8 possible holes punched, and a smaller >pinfeed/timing hole, on the ASR-33. In theory, the 8th data hole was to be >used for parity, though the ASR-33 punched 7-bit ASCII plus an always-on 8th >bit by default. > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletype_Model_33 >> IIRC, and wikipedia seems to confirm, TTY-33 automatically generated even parity automatically. One could cause incorrect parity by pressing too many modifier keys (SHIFT, CTRL?) simultaneously. Some 8-bit UARTs used that 8th bit as a DATA READY flag, thus the "always-on" perception. It would have taken at least one more instruction to clear it. For transmitting, the TTY-33 used wall electric power only to turn a motor; everything else was mechanical, or powered by the data lines. >> One of my early adventures was converting the Long lines accounting tapes >> to punch cards on an 029. It was like cloak and dagger as to what pins did >> what. We couldn't show the IBM guy our manual and he couldn't show us his. >> After a couple of attempts cooler heads prevailed and the IBM guy says I'm >> going for coffee and left his 029 manual open to the pin-out diagram. When >> he came back the 029 was punching cards. > Early 029 or late 026 era? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Memories (was: RE: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
Dartmouth? I got into quite a bit of trouble when I got a little over-familiar with the DTSS system at Dartmouth - one connected to the USMMA (among others, I think). This was around 1975/6. Crashed it once (via acoustic modem in the library on-campus). Couldn't believe it happened, so of course I did it again. Then I ran away - I was 16 years old! Been hooked on IT ever since. :-) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Randy Hudson Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 4:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) [ EXTERNAL ] In article <1b40a37.6eb3673.45aab...@aol.com> Edward Finnell wrote: > I started at Southern Bell Co-op student in '66 on a 33ASR writing > Basic Programs on I think it was a GE635 at one of the Banks in Atlanta. BASIC? I think Dartmouth BASIC was created around 1964, but I didn't realize it was used in banking by 1966. > There were eight holes but the 4th from left was the sprocket feed. > If you put the tape in upside down it would saw it in two. As I recall it, there were 8 possible holes punched, and a smaller pinfeed/timing hole, on the ASR-33. In theory, the 8th data hole was to be used for parity, though the ASR-33 punched 7-bit ASCII plus an always-on 8th bit by default. > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_ > wiki_Teletype-5FModel-5F33&d=DwIBAg&c=huW-Z3760n7oNORvLCN2eJBo4X7nIGCr > 9Ffht-z0f4k&r=1KMMjoSvFEwY7ZoooplFIrKcOeeTJVI4X6Bc3o6vdK4&m=kVCgDps0-z > Q_PgVOgTYcH2hhSyrSUC6hqtn2c7LhGKw&s=edf8PxGckeFHoBiQoRMbB71aPvISLFKRk3 > V7LJDB4hY&e= > > One of my early adventures was converting the Long lines accounting > tapes to punch cards on an 029. It was like cloak and dagger as to > what pins did what. We couldn't show the IBM guy our manual and he couldn't > show us his. > After a couple of attempts cooler heads prevailed and the IBM guy > says I'm going for coffee and left his 029 manual open to the pin-out > diagram. When he came back the 029 was punching cards. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. OppenheimerFunds may, at its sole discretion, monitor, review, retain and/or disclose the content of all email communications. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
Ticker Tape is different. No holes. Stock prices printed on it. You know those stock price "crawlers" on TV, at your broker's, and in Times Square? Those are a simulation of ticker tape. Picture that stock crawler printed on paper tape -- that's ticker tape. The printing device was called a Ticker because of the noise it made. You seem them in old photos. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticker_tape Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Gibney, Dave Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 2:36 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) Parades in New York. Called Ticker Tape. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
Don't remember the specifics. I was in the engineering department and we were using Basic to calculate analog multiplexor settings. The computer was in Atlanta with an agreement with AT&T long lines for access via acoustic coupler. That summer went on an ACM tour of UAB cardio unit and they had folks in ICU hooked up to 1800's real time. Claimed it decreased recovery time by 60%. I was smitten. In a message dated 1/13/2017 5:23:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, i...@panix.com writes: BASIC? I think Dartmouth BASIC was created around 1964, but I didn't realize it was used in banking by 1966. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
In article <1b40a37.6eb3673.45aab...@aol.com> Edward Finnell wrote: > I started at Southern Bell Co-op student in '66 on a 33ASR writing Basic > Programs on I think it was a GE635 at one of the Banks in Atlanta. BASIC? I think Dartmouth BASIC was created around 1964, but I didn't realize it was used in banking by 1966. > There were eight holes but the 4th from left was the sprocket feed. If > you put the tape in upside down it would saw it in two. As I recall it, there were 8 possible holes punched, and a smaller pinfeed/timing hole, on the ASR-33. In theory, the 8th data hole was to be used for parity, though the ASR-33 punched 7-bit ASCII plus an always-on 8th bit by default. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletype_Model_33 > > One of my early adventures was converting the Long lines accounting tapes > to punch cards on an 029. It was like cloak and dagger as to what pins did > what. We couldn't show the IBM guy our manual and he couldn't show us his. > After a couple of attempts cooler heads prevailed and the IBM guy says I'm > going for coffee and left his 029 manual open to the pin-out diagram. When > he came back the 029 was punching cards. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
I started at Southern Bell Co-op student in '66 on a 33ASR writing Basic Programs on I think it was a GE635 at one of the Banks in Atlanta. There were eight holes but the 4th from left was the sprocket feed. If you put the tape in upside down it would saw it in two. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletype_Model_33 One of my early adventures was converting the Long lines accounting tapes to punch cards on an 029. It was like cloak and dagger as to what pins did what. We couldn't show the IBM guy our manual and he couldn't show us his. After a couple of attempts cooler heads prevailed and the IBM guy says I'm going for coffee and left his 029 manual open to the pin-out diagram. When he came back the 029 was punching cards. In a message dated 1/13/2017 4:17:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, bernd.oppol...@t-online.de writes: So every row on the tape could hold one 8-bit byte; I don't know what coding it was. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
Parades in New York. Called Ticker Tape. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Tom Marchant > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 12:22 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) > > On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:56:57 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: > > >https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- > 3A__en.wikipedia.org_w > >iki_Punched- > 5Ftape&d=DgIFaQ&c=C3yme8gMkxg_ihJNXS06ZyWk4EJm8LdrrvxQb-Je7 > >sw&r=u9g8rUevBoyCPAdo5sWE9w&m=HjszhDuu-mtwbfAgGo8df0rkg- > 8gtAsoAib2IrgRB > >6E&s=S5587Pe4jItOcn-dNPkEk0jiyRrrA5qYMV70dPE2MqI&e= > >About 1974-75, I lived with my dad, manager of a Kroger store. At > >night he would insert various strips of punch film into a reader to > >report the store's daily transactions. > > Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. > > What was it used for? > > -- > Tom Marchant > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to > lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
BTW: the teletypes were General Electric devices, and the paper tape had 8 holes, not 5. So every row on the tape could hold one 8-bit byte; I don't know what coding it was. The machine had neither ASCII nor EBCDIC; it was another special Telefunken code (Zentralcode). The General Electric teletypes and the display terminals (text and even vector graphic devices) were not directly attached to the TR 440; there was a TR 86 S satellite computer doing the I/O work. This was in the late 1970s. Kind regards Bernd Am 13.01.2017 um 23:05 schrieb Bernd Oppolzer: When I worked as a student at the university of Stuttgart, Germany with the Telefunken TR 440 mainframe, before I had access to the display terminals, I had to use the card punch (IBM 29, IIRC). But there were also some teletypes attached to the machine, which could be used for a time sharing dialog, and some of them had a paper tape reader/puncher attached. So you could use this paper tape in the following way: when finishing work on one day, you could print your source code to the teletype; before output starts, you switched on the paper tape punch, and this way you produced a paper tape of your source code. (You had to finish before 7.15 pm, that was GSP-ENDE, end of dialog, otherwise your work was lost). Next day, you used the paper tape to read your source code again into the machine via the same teletype. This was very convenient; the paper tape was much smaller than a big box of punched cards and you hadn't to wait for the operator to process your punched cards (which was closed shop). We didn't have access to the LFD (langfristige Datenhaltung = long term storage on disks etc) at that time. Kind regards Bernd Am 13.01.2017 um 22:26 schrieb Mike Myers: For the education of the newbies, I'm going to take paper tape back to the '60s. I was in the Air Force from 1960-1964 as an electronics technician maintaining cryptographic equipment, some of which was used with teletype equipment. Teletypes used a 5-bit code called Baudot code. For those of you who have heard the term baud before, it represented a single character in the Baudot code. There was a specific code that shifted between letters and numbers/figures modes, so that there could be more than 32 values represented. Messages could be punched onto a paper tape from a keyboard and then later transmitted through a tape reader into a communications link. Or, on the receiving end, a message could either be printed by a teletype or punched into a paper tape for further transmission or later printing. The technology was eventually used with early computers, as you are hearing here. Mike Myers Mentor Services Corporation On 01/13/2017 03:35 PM, David W Noon wrote: On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 14:21:58 -0600, Tom Marchant (000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu) wrote about "Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)" (in <3742476116017335.wa.m42tomibmmainyahoo@listserv.ua.edu>): On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:56:57 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_tape About 1974-75, I lived with my dad, manager of a Kroger store. At night he would insert various strips of punch film into a reader to report the store's daily transactions. Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. What was it used for? In the mid 1970s I was working for a multi-national chemical company in Melbourne, Australia. We had 2 paper tape readers and 1 paper tape punch. They were used mostly for threatening young programmers who spoke derisively about punched cards. ... :-) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
I remember using paper tape in high school in the mid-70's. Punch cards in college and my first job. I joined the army in 1981. I was eventually assigned to a signal unit in 1984 and lo and behold I had paper tape again in our radio teletype vans. We transcribed the messages onto the tape and then powered up the hf radio for a relatively shorter transmission window. This was during the cold war and the theory was that if you were on air for much longer than 30 seconds at a time our friends on the other side of the iron curtain could triangulate your position and pretty much ruin your day. "The power of accurate observation is often mistaken for cynicism by those who have not got it." -- George Bernard Shaw -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
and had used the IBM example to add 2 + 2 and print 4, and I decided I would program the calculation of the determinant on this new toy. I spent several hours each day, with no one else entering the computer room, and by Saturday afternoon, I had punched my program, had printed it, and was now ready to actually run my first computer program. As I watched the nearly 30 feet of paper tape whir thru the reader on the 610, its panel of nixie tubes flickered with the address numbers. I recall crossing my arms and thinking "Wow, it is 1959, I am a sophomore at Notre Dame, and I am running a real program on a digital computer". The paper tape came to its end, the printer came alive, and I received my first computer output; four characters were printed, and the Selectric shut down: WOW! Of course, I didn't have the slightest idea of what was wrong, or how to debug, so I remained in the computer room until after midnight Saturday, then were back at 7am on Sunday, and finally, that senior, (who, I'm very sorry to say, never gave his name, and I never saw him again) happened by, and he examined the problem with me. He discovered that I had kind of completely missed the difference between "program" and "data", and that the first punch in the tape was a control character that put the 610 in a scan mode to read the tape until another control character was found, and that in the fifth from end position it found a control character that changed the mode from "scan" to "print" the characters on the tape, interpreting them as machine instructions, and what had been printed out were the last four computer instructions in my program: W=Carriage Return, O=Line Feed, W= Carriage Return, !=Print Accumulator! (I had found the IBM recommendation to use two carriage returns to ensure that the very slow print head on the Selectric was all the way back to the left margin before printing a result!). Fortunately, by late on Monday, I had actually figured out how to run the program, and successfully computed the value of the 4x4 determinant, and on Tuesday (I think Sept 29, 1959) I submitted the very first EE laboratory report at Notre Dame that used a digital computer. While the report was accepted, (and correct), I saw nothing but chagrin in that professor's face, and as I was never encouraged by him or anyone else on the faculty, that was also my last use of a computer while at Notre Dame. -Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Myers Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 3:26 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) For the education of the newbies, I'm going to take paper tape back to the '60s. I was in the Air Force from 1960-1964 as an electronics technician maintaining cryptographic equipment, some of which was used with teletype equipment. Teletypes used a 5-bit code called Baudot code. For those of you who have heard the term baud before, it represented a single character in the Baudot code. There was a specific code that shifted between letters and numbers/figures modes, so that there could be more than 32 values represented. Messages could be punched onto a paper tape from a keyboard and then later transmitted through a tape reader into a communications link. Or, on the receiving end, a message could either be printed by a teletype or punched into a paper tape for further transmission or later printing. The technology was eventually used with early computers, as you are hearing here. Mike Myers Mentor Services Corporation On 01/13/2017 03:35 PM, David W Noon wrote: > On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 14:21:58 -0600, Tom Marchant > (000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu) wrote about "Paper > tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)" (in > <3742476116017335.wa.m42tomibmmainyahoo@listserv.ua.edu>): > >> On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:56:57 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: >> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_tape >>> About 1974-75, I lived with my dad, manager of a Kroger store. At >>> night he would insert various strips of punch film into a reader to >>> report the store's daily transactions. >> Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. >> >> What was it used for? > In the mid 1970s I was working for a multi-national chemical company > in Melbourne, Australia. We had 2 paper tape readers and 1 paper tape > punch. They were used mostly for threatening young programmers who > spoke derisively about punched cards. ... :-) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
When I worked as a student at the university of Stuttgart, Germany with the Telefunken TR 440 mainframe, before I had access to the display terminals, I had to use the card punch (IBM 29, IIRC). But there were also some teletypes attached to the machine, which could be used for a time sharing dialog, and some of them had a paper tape reader/puncher attached. So you could use this paper tape in the following way: when finishing work on one day, you could print your source code to the teletype; before output starts, you switched on the paper tape punch, and this way you produced a paper tape of your source code. (You had to finish before 7.15 pm, that was GSP-ENDE, end of dialog, otherwise your work was lost). Next day, you used the paper tape to read your source code again into the machine via the same teletype. This was very convenient; the paper tape was much smaller than a big box of punched cards and you hadn't to wait for the operator to process your punched cards (which was closed shop). We didn't have access to the LFD (langfristige Datenhaltung = long term storage on disks etc) at that time. Kind regards Bernd Am 13.01.2017 um 22:26 schrieb Mike Myers: For the education of the newbies, I'm going to take paper tape back to the '60s. I was in the Air Force from 1960-1964 as an electronics technician maintaining cryptographic equipment, some of which was used with teletype equipment. Teletypes used a 5-bit code called Baudot code. For those of you who have heard the term baud before, it represented a single character in the Baudot code. There was a specific code that shifted between letters and numbers/figures modes, so that there could be more than 32 values represented. Messages could be punched onto a paper tape from a keyboard and then later transmitted through a tape reader into a communications link. Or, on the receiving end, a message could either be printed by a teletype or punched into a paper tape for further transmission or later printing. The technology was eventually used with early computers, as you are hearing here. Mike Myers Mentor Services Corporation On 01/13/2017 03:35 PM, David W Noon wrote: On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 14:21:58 -0600, Tom Marchant (000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu) wrote about "Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)" (in <3742476116017335.wa.m42tomibmmainyahoo@listserv.ua.edu>): On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:56:57 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_tape About 1974-75, I lived with my dad, manager of a Kroger store. At night he would insert various strips of punch film into a reader to report the store's daily transactions. Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. What was it used for? In the mid 1970s I was working for a multi-national chemical company in Melbourne, Australia. We had 2 paper tape readers and 1 paper tape punch. They were used mostly for threatening young programmers who spoke derisively about punched cards. ... :-) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
Anyone ever play with fanfold paper tape? I did, between school and university. I guess you'd call it a gap year job, nowadays. :-) Anyhow, lots of fun to be had with diskette box lids being used to catch the paper tape as it passed through the reader. If it missed the box the stuff arced across the room. We used it to take compiled object code produced by a Data General Nova / Eclipse dualed pair and load it into one of the Membrain automatic tester rigs. (I got myself a job as a programmer for Membrain in Ferndown, Dorset.) Happy times Sent from my iPad > On 13 Jan 2017, at 21:33, Tom Marchant <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > >> On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 20:35:40 +, David W Noon wrote: >> >> On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 14:21:58 -0600, Tom Marchant >> (000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu) wrote about "Paper tape >> (was Re: Hidden Figures)" > >>> Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. >>> >>> What was it used for? >> >> In the mid 1970s I was working for a multi-national chemical company in >> Melbourne, Australia. We had 2 paper tape readers and 1 paper tape >> punch. They were used mostly for threatening young programmers who spoke >> derisively about punched cards. ... :-) > > I was thinking of something far more ubiquitous. Every shop used them. > > -- > Tom Marchant > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 20:35:40 +, David W Noon wrote: >On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 14:21:58 -0600, Tom Marchant >(000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu) wrote about "Paper tape >(was Re: Hidden Figures)" >> Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. >> >> What was it used for? > >In the mid 1970s I was working for a multi-national chemical company in >Melbourne, Australia. We had 2 paper tape readers and 1 paper tape >punch. They were used mostly for threatening young programmers who spoke >derisively about punched cards. ... :-) I was thinking of something far more ubiquitous. Every shop used them. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
For the education of the newbies, I'm going to take paper tape back to the '60s. I was in the Air Force from 1960-1964 as an electronics technician maintaining cryptographic equipment, some of which was used with teletype equipment. Teletypes used a 5-bit code called Baudot code. For those of you who have heard the term baud before, it represented a single character in the Baudot code. There was a specific code that shifted between letters and numbers/figures modes, so that there could be more than 32 values represented. Messages could be punched onto a paper tape from a keyboard and then later transmitted through a tape reader into a communications link. Or, on the receiving end, a message could either be printed by a teletype or punched into a paper tape for further transmission or later printing. The technology was eventually used with early computers, as you are hearing here. Mike Myers Mentor Services Corporation On 01/13/2017 03:35 PM, David W Noon wrote: On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 14:21:58 -0600, Tom Marchant (000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu) wrote about "Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)" (in <3742476116017335.wa.m42tomibmmainyahoo@listserv.ua.edu>): On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:56:57 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_tape About 1974-75, I lived with my dad, manager of a Kroger store. At night he would insert various strips of punch film into a reader to report the store's daily transactions. Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. What was it used for? In the mid 1970s I was working for a multi-national chemical company in Melbourne, Australia. We had 2 paper tape readers and 1 paper tape punch. They were used mostly for threatening young programmers who spoke derisively about punched cards. ... :-) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 14:21:58 -0600, Tom Marchant (000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu) wrote about "Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)" (in <3742476116017335.wa.m42tomibmmainyahoo@listserv.ua.edu>): > On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:56:57 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_tape >> About 1974-75, I lived with my dad, manager of a Kroger store. At >> night he would insert various strips of punch film into a reader to >> report the store's daily transactions. > > Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. > > What was it used for? In the mid 1970s I was working for a multi-national chemical company in Melbourne, Australia. We had 2 paper tape readers and 1 paper tape punch. They were used mostly for threatening young programmers who spoke derisively about punched cards. ... :-) -- Regards, Dave [RLU #314465] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* david.w.n...@googlemail.com (David W Noon) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
Watch the opening scenes from the movie Colossus for a walk down memory lane. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tom Marchant Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 3:22 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:56:57 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_tape >About 1974-75, I lived with my dad, manager of a Kroger store. At >night he would insert various strips of punch film into a reader to >report the store's daily transactions. Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. What was it used for? -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN FIRST TENNESSEE Confidentiality notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures)
First time I saw paper tape was in school, Vo-Tech, UNIVAC system in 1974-75, once in the real world starting @ Sears in 1977 never saw paper tape again and not since, lots of cards no paper tape . - Original Message - From: "Tom Marchant" <000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 2:21:58 PM Subject: Paper tape (was Re: Hidden Figures) On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 13:56:57 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote: >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_tape >About 1974-75, I lived with my dad, manager of a Kroger store. At >night he would insert various strips of punch film into a reader to >report the store's daily transactions. Well into the 1970's almost every mainframe shop used paper tape. What was it used for? -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
