Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

[Timothy Sipples]

Nightwatch RenBand wrote:
>IBM Java support figured it all out.
>Java8 uses instructions from the instruction set on z10 and higher
>machines.  And WE are using a z9 2096 machine.
>ERGO S-0C1 was for "ain't no such instruction" rather than the usual not on
>a half word boundery.
>Thanks for all your help.  Wish they would either upgrade or replace the
>system so I can go retire... but they keep paying me.
>https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/sdk-java-technology/8?topic=installing-supported-environments#supported_env_80__zos

Interesting! You might want to ask them when the z10 minimum processor level 
was introduced since (as far as I can tell) it was introduced at some point in 
the service stream. At initial announcement the IBM SDK for z/OS, Java 
Technology Edition, Version 8 was supported on z990/z890 processors or higher 
with z/OS 1.13 or higher. Then, if you wish (not a recommendation), you could 
obtain and run the unsupported release just prior to the introduction of the 
z10 minimum-related code change.

I quickly scanned through the release notes, and I haven't been able to find 
the Service Refresh (SR) or Fix Pack (FP) when the z10 prerequisite was 
evidently introduced. The Program Directory mentions nothing about a z10 
minimum processor level.

Alternatively, IBM still provides most of the Java 8 SDK builds going back to 
the GA release. You can still find them if you navigate through IBM's download 
pages. What you could try is to roll back to the final Fix Pack for each of the 
major Service Refreshes to see which one runs on a z9. Here are the final 
listed Fix Packs for each Service Refresh:

GA+IV70681
SR1 FP10
SR2 FP10
SR3 FP22
SR4 FP11
SR5 FP41
SR6 FP36

SR7 FP16 is current, as I write this. So for example try SR6 FP36. If that 
works, great. If not, try SR5 FP41 next. And so on. I'm assuming any z10 
minimum processor level requirement was introduced at a Service Refresh 
boundary, and that's probably a reasonable assumption.

Please let us know how it goes if you head down any of these paths.

— — — — —
Timothy Sipples
Senior Architect
Digital Assets, Industry Solutions, and Cybersecurity
IBM zSystems/LinuxONE, Asia-Pacific
sipp...@sg.ibm.com


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Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

[Nightwatch RenBand]

IBM Java support figured it all out.
Java8 uses instructions from the instruction set on z10 and higher
machines.  And WE are using a z9 2096 machine.
ERGO S-0C1 was for "ain't no such instruction" rather than the usual not on
a half word boundery.
Thanks for all your help.  Wish they would either upgrade or replace the
system so I can go retire... but they keep paying me.

https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/sdk-java-technology/8?topic=installing-supported-environments#supported_env_80__zos


On Sat, Oct 15, 2022 at 6:55 AM Nightwatch RenBand 
wrote:

> Finally did the simple thing from omvs cmd line
> java -version
> And got S-0C1 there.  So something is really wrong at that level.  Not
> JZOS at all. I am waiting for IBM to reply to that bit of info.  And
> resigned that I may never get this resolved.  As I told management, when
> they stopped my project to go to zOS 2.2 while it was still supported, and
> the last supported level on our machine...
> "the trailing edge bleeds just as much as the leading edge".
>

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Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 17 Oct 2022 11:52:09 -0500, Kirk Wolf wrote:

>I've seen that when there isn't enough memory to start java.   Always seemed 
>like bad coding to me ;-)
> 
Yup.  I've had such happen to me, and IBM replied, "Increase your REGION."

Why are we still bound by habits formed when storage cost a buck per byte
?

Why isn't required REGION an attribute of program objects, sparing
programmers the need to code it in JCL?


>On Sat, Oct 15, 2022, at 8:55 AM, Nightwatch RenBand wrote:
>> Finally did the simple thing from omvs cmd line
>> java -version
>> And got S-0C1 there.  So something is really wrong at that level.  Not JZOS
>> at all. I am waiting for IBM to reply to that bit of info. 

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Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

[Kirk Wolf]

I've seen that when there isn't enough memory to start java.   Always seemed 
like bad coding to me ;-)

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies, LLC
http://coztoolkit.com
Dovetailed Technologies: +1 636.300.0901

Note: Our website and domain name have changed from dovetail.com to 
coztoolkit.com

On Sat, Oct 15, 2022, at 8:55 AM, Nightwatch RenBand wrote:
> Finally did the simple thing from omvs cmd line
> java -version
> And got S-0C1 there.  So something is really wrong at that level.  Not JZOS
> at all. I am waiting for IBM to reply to that bit of info.  And resigned
> that I may never get this resolved.  As I told management, when they
> stopped my project to go to zOS 2.2 while it was still supported, and the
> last supported level on our machine...
> "the trailing edge bleeds just as much as the leading edge".
> 
> --
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> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> 

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Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 16:42:42 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>Aha! The text for -X didn't specify, but text further down made it clare that 
>Unix to PDSE is valid. The only remaining question is what PDS(E)->Unix does 
>with execute permission.
>
>And, no, I don't know whether the option was valid in 1.13.


On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 13:30:12 -0700, Nightwatch RenBand wrote:
>...
>This shouldn't be this hard, really
>
He's right, y'know.

Do you expect DSFS will make it better, or worse?

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Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

[Seymour J Metz]

Sorry, I was thinking of the other direction. 

If the OP did a cp -X from Unix to PDSE and it wouldn't execute, it would be 
time to report it, assuming that he can reproduce it on 2.5.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2022 12:13 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 15:39:48 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>Did you set executable in the permissions?
>
>
How does one do that for a program object in a PDSE, the OP's requirement?

There is a case where /bin/ld will create a file set executable in the 
permissions,
but lacking the executable magic number.  Then exec(), per POSIX requirement,
treats it as a shell script with surprising results.

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gil

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Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

[Seymour J Metz]

Aha! The text for -X didn't specify, but text further down made it clare that 
Unix to PDSE is valid. The only remaining question is what PDS(E)->Unix does 
with execute permission.

And, no, I don't know whether the option was valid in 1.13.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 5:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 21:15:11 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>To copy to or from a program object, you need the binder; IEBCOPY can call it 
>under the covers, but doesn't handle Unix files.

RFE?

Given that: 
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ibm.com%2Fdocs%2Fen%2Fzos%2F2.5.0%3Ftopic%3Ddescriptions-cp-copy-file&data=05%7C01%7Csmetz3%40gmu.edu%7C81678f247d5c44e90dff08daa0cfae38%7C9e857255df574c47a0c00546460380cb%7C0%7C0%7C637999111086119805%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=2hdHQi4NiiDAAEa3KGFyJKyl8eUqxDnkpgi5JR4xU2o%3D&reserved=0>
-X
Specifies that the data to be copied is an executable.
   Cannot be used with -F, -T, or -B.

I'd call it SR, not RFE.  But 1.13?

--
gil

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Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 15:39:48 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>Did you set executable in the permissions?
>
> 
How does one do that for a program object in a PDSE, the OP's requirement?

There is a case where /bin/ld will create a file set executable in the 
permissions,
but lacking the executable magic number.  Then exec(), per POSIX requirement,
treats it as a shell script with surprising results.

-- 
gil

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Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

[Seymour J Metz]

Did you set executable in the permissions?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Nightwatch RenBand [johnmattson...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2022 9:30 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

Thanks to all.
I have tested the Windows version SCRT 28 and since that works I do have a
work-around. May stick with it

I did try "cp -X ..." while it copied OK, would not execute.

Charles Mills: I might play with the zOS unix version

I have requested the SMPE Java 8, seems you have to go thru your IBM Rep.
I could not find it in ShopZ

Charles Mills: The binder did return RC=00 with info msg in the sysout.
IEW2278I B352 INVOCATION PARAMETERS - LIST,REUS,RENT,NCAL,LET,MAP

IEW2322I 1220  1INCLUDE INLIB
IEW2322I 1220  2NAME JVMLDM86(R)
IEW2650I 5102 MODULE ENTRY NOT PROVIDED.  ENTRY DEFAULTS TO SECTION
CELQSTRT.
I used "IEBEyeBall" on the zFS loadmod and found CEESTART but the link
failed using that.  Confess I have little experience with the Binder.

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Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 06:30:19 -0700, Nightwatch RenBand wrote:
>...
>Charles Mills: The binder did return RC=00 with info msg in the sysout.
>IEW2278I B352 INVOCATION PARAMETERS - LIST,REUS,RENT,NCAL,LET,MAP
>
>IEW2322I 1220  1INCLUDE INLIB
>
Perhaps  INCLUDE -ATTR INLIB?
 ^

>IEW2322I 1220  2NAME JVMLDM86(R)
>IEW2650I 5102 MODULE ENTRY NOT PROVIDED.  ENTRY DEFAULTS TO SECTION CELQSTRT.



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Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

[Nightwatch RenBand]

Thanks to all.
I have tested the Windows version SCRT 28 and since that works I do have a
work-around. May stick with it

I did try "cp -X ..." while it copied OK, would not execute.

Charles Mills: I might play with the zOS unix version

I have requested the SMPE Java 8, seems you have to go thru your IBM Rep.
I could not find it in ShopZ

Charles Mills: The binder did return RC=00 with info msg in the sysout.
IEW2278I B352 INVOCATION PARAMETERS - LIST,REUS,RENT,NCAL,LET,MAP

IEW2322I 1220  1INCLUDE INLIB
IEW2322I 1220  2NAME JVMLDM86(R)
IEW2650I 5102 MODULE ENTRY NOT PROVIDED.  ENTRY DEFAULTS TO SECTION
CELQSTRT.
I used "IEBEyeBall" on the zFS loadmod and found CEESTART but the link
failed using that.  Confess I have little experience with the Binder.

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Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

[Timothy Sipples]

John McKown wrote:
>What level of hardware? We have a z9BC. SCRT version 29 will NOT run on
>this hardware level. I think it needs a z12 or better. From what I saw, I
>needed the MVHGI instruction. Actually, this is a Java 8 requirement, not
>SCRT 29. I'm still running SCRT 28. In anticipation of requiring SCRT 29, I
>downloaded the Windows SCRT program & tested it out. It worked. But that is
>still SCRT 28 because SCRT 29, IIRC, won't be available until 15Oct2022.

John, let's be precise here. You decided to run SCRT off platform, and that's 
one choice. But the IBM SDK, Java Technology Edition, Version 8 for z/OS is 
compatible with/was supported with z/OS 1.13 and higher. (z/OS 1.13 has reached 
End of Service, so it's an "as-is" situation now.) There are no additional Java 
8 prerequisites in terms of machine model, not generalized ones anyway. It's 
highly likely the error message you observed is spurious since (from what I can 
determine from afar) you didn't satisfy the published prerequisites. IBM never 
said Java 8 would work on z/OS 1.12 (your release). When you stray from the 
published prerequisites and something doesn't work then all you can conclude is 
that the published prerequisites might be correct. You cannot logically 
conclude that the published prerequisites are incorrect, and that's what you 
seem to be doing in what you just wrote.

Anyway, back to the original question Nightwatch RenBand asked, or at least a 
workaround

Nightwatch RenBand: Likely the easiest, quickest way to solve your particular 
problem is to install the IBM SDK, Java Technology Edition, Version 8 via SMP/E 
rather than via the Web-delivered version. The SMP/E installation should get 
JZOS properly installed into PDS/Es for you (as well as zFS). You can order the 
SMP/E installable SDK (with the latest maintenance) through IBM Shopz, and it's 
a no additional charge software product. That is to say if you're a z/OS 
licensee you can obtain and run this software product at no additional charge. 
There are actually two products because there are two IBM Program Numbers, one 
for the 31-bit release and the other for 64-bit. SCRT recommends 64-bit, 
although 31-bit will likely work especially if you have a relatively small 
number of LPARs. You might as well order and install both. Here are the IBM 
Program Numbers to order:

31-bit: 5655-DGG
64-bit: 5655-DGH

And here's the link to IBM Shopz:

https://www.ibm.com/client-tools/shopz

End of Service for these products is currently September 30, 2026. If you need 
to open a problem case with IBM that's specific to the SDK (a suspected defect 
in Java) then you probably can still do so, although be prepared for a "Sorry, 
we've reached our limits" if you start to drift into something specific to z/OS 
since you're on 1.13.

Obviously it'd be wonderful if you get to a newer, supported z/OS release. But 
SCRT Version 29's requirements shouldn't force you to do so.

Please let us know how it goes!

— — — — —
Timothy Sipples
Senior Architect
Digital Assets, Industry Solutions, and Cybersecurity
IBM zSystems/LinuxONE, Asia-Pacific
sipp...@sg.ibm.com


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Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 21:15:11 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>To copy to or from a program object, you need the binder; IEBCOPY can call it 
>under the covers, but doesn't handle Unix files.

RFE?

Given that: 

-X
Specifies that the data to be copied is an executable.
   Cannot be used with -F, -T, or -B.

I'd call it SR, not RFE.  But 1.13?

-- 
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Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

[Pew, Curtis G]

On Sep 27, 2022, at 4:15 PM, Seymour J Metz 
mailto:sme...@gmu.edu>> wrote:

To copy to or from a program object, you need the binder; IEBCOPY can call it 
under the covers, but doesn't handle Unix files.

The Unix `cp` command will call the binder under the covers, especially if you 
use the -X flag.


--
Curtis Pew
ITS Campus Solutions
curtis@austin.utexas.edu




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Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

[John McKown]

What level of hardware? We have a z9BC. SCRT version 29 will NOT run on
this hardware level. I think it needs a z12 or better. From what I saw, I
needed the MVHGI instruction. Actually, this is a Java 8 requirement, not
SCRT 29. I'm still running SCRT 28. In anticipation of requiring SCRT 29, I
downloaded the Windows SCRT program & tested it out. It worked. But that is
still SCRT 28 because SCRT 29, IIRC, won't be available until 15Oct2022.

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 3:31 PM Nightwatch RenBand 
wrote:

> This is a cross-post from MVS-OE since not much activity there...
> Keeping zOS alive at this late date and need to update  to JAVA8 in order
> to accomodate SCRT 29.
> The JZOS module is there in the zfs and if I can copy it to a PDSE I should
> be able to run JZOS
> But I cannot get a valid zos loadmod copied.
> I have tried:
> > from OMVS cp -X  this "works" but PDSE load mod will not execute, gets
> S-0C1
> > OPUT OGET (note that zOS 1.13 does not include OGETX as far as I can
> tell).
> > Also tried the linkedit from the USS Systems services manual. Linked, but
> would not execute. Probably an entry point problem.
> This shouldn't be this hard, really
>
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Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

[Seymour J Metz]

To copy to or from a program object, you need the binder; IEBCOPY can call it 
under the covers, but doesn't handle Unix files.

RFE?


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Nightwatch RenBand 
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 4:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

This is a cross-post from MVS-OE since not much activity there...
Keeping zOS alive at this late date and need to update  to JAVA8 in order
to accomodate SCRT 29.
The JZOS module is there in the zfs and if I can copy it to a PDSE I should
be able to run JZOS
But I cannot get a valid zos loadmod copied.
I have tried:
> from OMVS cp -X  this "works" but PDSE load mod will not execute, gets
S-0C1
> OPUT OGET (note that zOS 1.13 does not include OGETX as far as I can
tell).
> Also tried the linkedit from the USS Systems services manual. Linked, but
would not execute. Probably an entry point problem.
This shouldn't be this hard, really

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Re: zOS 1.13 (really) how copy MVS loadmod from ZFS to PDSE

[Joe Monk]

According to the z/os unix system services command guide:

"An executable file copied from the file system into an MVS data set is not
executable under MVS. Some required directory information is lost during
the copy. See z/OS UNIX System Services User's Guide

 for a discussion of copying executable files."

Joe

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 3:31 PM Nightwatch RenBand 
wrote:

> This is a cross-post from MVS-OE since not much activity there...
> Keeping zOS alive at this late date and need to update  to JAVA8 in order
> to accomodate SCRT 29.
> The JZOS module is there in the zfs and if I can copy it to a PDSE I should
> be able to run JZOS
> But I cannot get a valid zos loadmod copied.
> I have tried:
> > from OMVS cp -X  this "works" but PDSE load mod will not execute, gets
> S-0C1
> > OPUT OGET (note that zOS 1.13 does not include OGETX as far as I can
> tell).
> > Also tried the linkedit from the USS Systems services manual. Linked, but
> would not execute. Probably an entry point problem.
> This shouldn't be this hard, really
>
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