Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

2016-03-19 Thread Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM
I agree that the main object of the HC was to alert for an over-threshold 
situation.

But 'logging' in HC by VERBOSE YES is not an elegant way. That is what SMF was 
invented for: log information for the sake of logging it, just because it might 
be needed (weeks/months) later.

I will wait what the answer in the PMR will be, maybe they direct me to the 
correct route.

Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Peter Relson
Sent: 16 March, 2016 13:38
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

>why tell HC and not me?

It did tell you. By the check messages.

The main thought was that the important situation to tell you about was 
when trimming is happening too much.
Thus the health check exception message is the right way to tell you. 

You can use the VERBOSE(YES) option of the health check to request showing 
of the information for all the classes, not just those that are in 
exception.
Further, even previous health check information remains available through 
the logstream. So some of the rationale for "needing" it in SMF is a bit 
weak.

>I already opened a PMR for adding the info to SMF 41-3.

A PMR is not the right vehicle these days for requesting new function.
Given that RFE is available, I would not bet that IBM level 2 will convert 
PMR's to RFE's any longer.
They might, I just don't know.



Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design


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Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

2016-03-19 Thread Peter Relson
>why tell HC and not me?

It did tell you. By the check messages.

The main thought was that the important situation to tell you about was 
when trimming is happening too much.
Thus the health check exception message is the right way to tell you. 

You can use the VERBOSE(YES) option of the health check to request showing 
of the information for all the classes, not just those that are in 
exception.
Further, even previous health check information remains available through 
the logstream. So some of the rationale for "needing" it in SMF is a bit 
weak.

>I already opened a PMR for adding the info to SMF 41-3.

A PMR is not the right vehicle these days for requesting new function.
Given that RFE is available, I would not bet that IBM level 2 will convert 
PMR's to RFE's any longer.
They might, I just don't know.



Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design


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Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

2016-03-19 Thread Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM
Yes, I was asked to open an RFE for this.

So everybody who wants the new VLF tuning info in SMF 41-3, 
vote for RFE 85541: Update VLF's SMF41-3 with the new info of youngest trimmed 
object.

Thanks,
Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM
Sent: 16 March, 2016 14:43
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

I agree that the main object of the HC was to alert for an over-threshold 
situation.

But 'logging' in HC by VERBOSE YES is not an elegant way. That is what SMF was 
invented for: log information for the sake of logging it, just because it might 
be needed (weeks/months) later.

I will wait what the answer in the PMR will be, maybe they direct me to the 
correct route.

Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Peter Relson
Sent: 16 March, 2016 13:38
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

>why tell HC and not me?

It did tell you. By the check messages.

The main thought was that the important situation to tell you about was 
when trimming is happening too much.
Thus the health check exception message is the right way to tell you. 

You can use the VERBOSE(YES) option of the health check to request showing 
of the information for all the classes, not just those that are in 
exception.
Further, even previous health check information remains available through 
the logstream. So some of the rationale for "needing" it in SMF is a bit 
weak.

>I already opened a PMR for adding the info to SMF 41-3.

A PMR is not the right vehicle these days for requesting new function.
Given that RFE is available, I would not bet that IBM level 2 will convert 
PMR's to RFE's any longer.
They might, I just don't know.



Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design


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Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

2016-03-18 Thread Peter Relson
It is relatively unlikely that we would implement this in the service 
stream.  Not impossible.

The information is nice, but it is obtainable via HC as I mentioned and 
customers have not thought it overly necessary since it seems that no one 
ever asked for it. We implemented it to help our service team.

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design


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Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

2016-03-16 Thread Elardus Engelbrecht
Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM wrote:

>I have V2.1, I think the HC functionality and the new age info became 
>available at V2.1, so I would like to see an upgrade for V2.1. 

Thanks, this is more or less what I see in the Knowledge pages. We are on z/OS 
v2.1 (only a handful of LPARs on z/OS v1.13).

I'm asking because I only see COFVLH01I and no values (trimmed from what value 
in COFVLFxx? My COFVLFxx does not have any ALERTAGE). H, time to do serious 
RTFM...

Seemed everything is in order with COFVLH01I, but I would like to see the 
VALUES - before trim and after trim.

Groete / Greetings 
Elardus Engelbrecht 

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Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

2016-03-16 Thread Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM
I have V2.1, I think the HC functionality and the new age info became available 
at V2.1, so I would like to see an upgrade for V2.1.

Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Elardus Engelbrecht
Sent: 16 March, 2016 10:37
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM wrote:

>Yes, I understood that and meant 'its HC routine'. 

I wanted to jump in, but ...

Question - at what z/OS level do you want that SMF 41-3 record changed? Just 
curious if you don't mind please.

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

2016-03-16 Thread Elardus Engelbrecht
Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM wrote:

>Yes, I understood that and meant 'its HC routine'. 

I wanted to jump in, but ...

Question - at what z/OS level do you want that SMF 41-3 record changed? Just 
curious if you don't mind please.

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

2016-03-16 Thread Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM
Yes, I understood that and meant 'its HC routine'.

Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tom Marchant
Sent: 15 March, 2016 17:38
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:16:21 +, Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM wrote:

>I meant, VLF knows the current youngest age and makes it available to 
>the HC routine at each HC interva...

ITYM "VLF knows the current youngest age and uses it in *its* health check".

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

2016-03-15 Thread Tom Marchant
On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:16:21 +, Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM wrote:

>I meant, VLF knows the current youngest age and makes it available to 
>the HC routine at each HC interva...

ITYM "VLF knows the current youngest age and uses it in *its* health check".

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

2016-03-15 Thread Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM
Ok, I misunderstood the HC infrastructure.
I meant, VLF knows the current youngest age and makes it available to the HC 
routine at each HC interval, which is volatile and is lost if  the HC does not 
alert, but not to me at each SMF41 interval.
I hope they will change this. As Peter more or less suggested: they forgot to 
do it.

Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tom Marchant
Sent: 15 March, 2016 15:33
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:29:11 +, Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM  wrote:

>I already guessed HC got the value from VLF internals,

Well, not exactly. Health Checker establishes the infrastructure for doing 
health 
checks. System components then register their health check with HC, which 
invokes the routine that the component registered to perform the check. That 
component's check routine performs the check and uses the HC infrastructure to 
report on the results of the check in a common way.

> so my immediate reaction was: why tell HC and not me?

The check routine does tell you. With a health check message.

>I already opened a PMR for adding the info to SMF 41-3.

Good luck with that. Maybe they'll convert it to an RFE.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

2016-03-15 Thread Tom Marchant
On Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:29:11 +, Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM  wrote:

>I already guessed HC got the value from VLF internals,

Well, not exactly. Health Checker establishes the infrastructure for doing 
health 
checks. System components then register their health check with HC, which 
invokes the routine that the component registered to perform the check. That 
component's check routine performs the check and uses the HC infrastructure to 
report on the results of the check in a common way.

> so my immediate reaction was: why tell HC and not me?

The check routine does tell you. With a health check message.

>I already opened a PMR for adding the info to SMF 41-3.

Good luck with that. Maybe they'll convert it to an RFE.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

2016-03-15 Thread Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM
Peter,

Thanks for the info.
I already guessed HC got the value from VLF internals, so my immediate reaction 
was: why tell HC and not me?
I already opened a PMR for adding the info to SMF 41-3.

Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Peter Relson
Sent: 15 March, 2016 13:07
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

>Where does HC get this info from?

I'd say that "HC" does not get the info from anywhere. This is a VLF 
health check, so VLF gets the information from its own control structures. 
VLF knows when it cached something and when it trimmed it (i.e., chose to 
remove the item from its cache for space reason). Thus it knows the "age" 
of the item that is trimmed and can compare that to the AlertAge.

>This is useful information for adjusting the size of the VLF cache, 
>but why is this value not made available in VLF's SMF 41-3?

Because no one has asked for that to be done (and we didn't think about it 
when considering implementing the health check). That certainly seems like 
a good thing to consider. Feel free to open an RFE to request it. For 
example, perhaps what you would want in the SMF record for each VLF class 
is:
-- the class's AlertAge
-- the class's current minimum age
(when the minimum age is less than the AlertAge, the check flags this as 
an exception)

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology


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Re: SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

2016-03-15 Thread Peter Relson
>Where does HC get this info from?

I'd say that "HC" does not get the info from anywhere. This is a VLF 
health check, so VLF gets the information from its own control structures. 
VLF knows when it cached something and when it trimmed it (i.e., chose to 
remove the item from its cache for space reason). Thus it knows the "age" 
of the item that is trimmed and can compare that to the AlertAge.

>This is useful information for adjusting the size of the VLF cache, 
>but why is this value not made available in VLF's SMF 41-3?

Because no one has asked for that to be done (and we didn't think about it 
when considering implementing the health check). That certainly seems like 
a good thing to consider. Feel free to open an RFE to request it. For 
example, perhaps what you would want in the SMF record for each VLF class 
is:
-- the class's AlertAge
-- the class's current minimum age
(when the minimum age is less than the AlertAge, the check flags this as 
an exception)

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology


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SMF41 VLF info and ALERTAGE

2016-03-14 Thread Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM
Hello,

Healthcheck VLF_MAXVIRT is informing us, that the VLF has trimmed objects 
younger than ALERTAGE specified in COFVLFxx.
It also display the age of the youngest trimmed object.

Where does HC get this info from?
This is useful information for adjusting the size of the VLF cache, but why is 
this value not made available in VLF's SMF 41-3?

Kees.


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