Re: CPOWNED Devices
Thanks, Kris. That is good news. It saves me the time needed to create a multi-pack test system for the experiment. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kris Buelens Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 1:11 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: CPOWNED Devices I tested this on one of our test machines: nothing gets lost when a DASD is relabeled *and* the label change is applied to SYSTEM CONFIG too. CP does indeed prompts for a FORCE start. SPFPACK confirmed that I had files on the relabeled pack. 13:27:17 The directory on volume VMBRS1 at address F1BC has been brought online. 13:27:17 HCPWRM9200E System recovery failure; configuration error. 13:27:17 HCPASK9205A HCPASK9205A Invalid warm start data encountered. HCPASK9205A No files have been deleted yet. HCPASK9205A To change to a FORCE start, enter FORCE. HCPASK9205A To stop processing, enter STOP. 13:27:35 FORCE 13:27:36 HCPWRS2513I HCPWRS2513I Spool files available 415 13:27:37 HCPWRS2512I Spooling initialization is complete. 13:27:37 DASD F532 dump unit CP IPL pages 6611 13:27:37 HCPAAU2700I System gateway VMKBMB01 identified. 13:27:37 z/VM Version 5 Release 3.0, Service Level 0701 (64-bit), 2008/3/28, Schuh, Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The Oracle or one of its agents has spoken. Thanks, John. Would marking the disk as draining in the config file prevent the loss of anything caused by the timing of the detection of the difference that you describe? Another question, would backing up only files that are at least partially contained on the disk be sufficient? We are talking about a spool system that normally fluctuates between 7000 and 18000 files, many of them quite large, and we are stuck with old tape technology (3 tapes to contain a DDR of a 3390-03). It would be my luck that it would be the higher number when my scheduled time arrived so that backing up the entire spool would take quite a bit of time. I envision a process like this: Before IPL (all can be done while the system is running) 1. DRAIN the disk, including update of SYSTEM CONFIG to indicate that it was to be drained or draining at IPL. 2. Use SPFACK to identify files that have at least 1 block on the pack. 3. PURGE unnecessary files. 4. Use SPXTAPE DUMP/LOAD to move the remaining files to the other spool volumes. 5. Reliable the pack. 6. Update the system config with the new volser. The pack would be left in the draining state. After IPL 1. FORCE start. 2. Update system config so that the disk is no longer draining. 3 Start the device. Would that be safe enough? If so, it would minimize the down time, which is a major consideration. I would also schedule the IPL to coincide with already scheduled activities that require the system to be down. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Franciscovich Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:09 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: CPOWNED Devices I've renamed spool volumes several times, four or more years ago, but a force start was required. I don't recall whether it was VM/ESA or z/VM. I would recommend a spool backup before attempting it. And if it is for a production system, then schedule enough time to reload spool, if necessary. A FORCE start will be required since the new CP_Owned list does not match the CP_Owned list that was saved in the checkpoint area when you shut down your system. The spool files are restored from the warmstart area during IPL, so they should be ok. You do risk losing information that was saved in the checkpoint area that hasn't been processed by the time the difference in the CP_Owned list is detected. In any event, I agree that a spool file backup is a good idea before attempting this change. John Franciscovich z/VM Development -- Kris Buelens, IBM Belgium, VM customer support
Re: CPOWNED Devices
Would marking the disk as draining in the config file prevent the loss of anything caused by the timing of the detection of the difference that you describe? Another question, would backing up only files that are at least partially contained on the disk be sufficient? We are talking about a spool system that normally fluctuates between 7000 and 18000 files, many of them quite large, and we are stuck with old tape technology (3 tapes to contain a DDR of a 3390-03). It would be my luck that it would be the higher number when my scheduled time arrived so that backing up the entire spool would take quite a bit of time. Marking the disk as draining is a good idea if you are going to backup files that are on it, so new spool data isn't written to it while you are doing the backup. It will have no impact on the requirement for a FORCE start or any data in the checkpoint area that might not be restored as a result. The data in the checkpoint area is not related to the spool files. I ran the same tests that Kris did and you *should not* lose any spool file data as a result of the re-label of the volume. I recommended doing a backup as a precaution, as I would for any change like this, but if everything works as expected, you should not need to restore anything. Whether you actually do a backup and how much of the spool you backup is entirely up to you. John Franciscovich z/VM Development
CPOWNED Devices
Will it kill spool if I 1. Reliable a spool disk and 2. Chnge the entry in the cpowned list, replacing the old volser with the new? Regards, Richard Schuh
Re: CPOWNED Devices
Yes, but an experiment using those areas does not necessarily translate to renaming of a spool volume. It would seem reasonable that renaming would be OK, but it doesn't hurt to hear it from the Oracle. Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Bates Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:29 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: CPOWNED Devices I don't believe that will cause any problems. I've done it recently with the checkpoint and warm start areas (renamed the volume they are on) and was able to come up without a problem and find all my spool files. As long as the volumes remain in the same slots, you should be fine. Bob Bates Enterprise Hosting Services - Enterprise Virtualization - z/VM and z/Linux http://ehs.homestead.wellsfargo.com/Mainframe/zSS/zSE/zVM-zLinux/Pages/ default.aspx w. (469)892-6660 c. (214) 907-5071 This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:59 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: CPOWNED Devices Will it kill spool if I 1. Reliable a spool disk and 2. Chnge the entry in the cpowned list, replacing the old volser with the new? Regards, Richard Schuh
Re: CPOWNED Devices
I've renamed spool volumes several times, four or more years ago, but a force start was required. I don't recall whether it was VM/ESA or z/VM. I would recommend a spool backup before attempting it. And if it is for a production system, then schedule enough time to reload spool, if necessary. From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:36 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: CPOWNED Devices Yes, but an experiment using those areas does not necessarily translate to renaming of a spool volume. It would seem reasonable that renaming would be OK, but it doesn't hurt to hear it from the Oracle. Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Bates Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:29 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: CPOWNED Devices I don't believe that will cause any problems. I've done it recently with the checkpoint and warm start areas (renamed the volume they are on) and was able to come up without a problem and find all my spool files. As long as the volumes remain in the same slots, you should be fine. Bob Bates Enterprise Hosting Services - Enterprise Virtualization - z/VM and z/Linux http://ehs.homestead.wellsfargo.com/Mainframe/zSS/zSE/zVM-zLinux/Pages/ default.aspx w. (469)892-6660 c. (214) 907-5071 This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:59 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: CPOWNED Devices Will it kill spool if I 1. Reliable a spool disk and 2. Chnge the entry in the cpowned list, replacing the old volser with the new? Regards, Richard Schuh
Re: CPOWNED Devices
It might be easier to drain the volume, use SPFPACK to identify files that are wholly or partially contained on it, and vacate it using a combination of PURGE and SPXTAPE. If it is left drained and empty until after the IPL that gets the new volser, it might not require the FORCE start. The FORCE start probably deletes any files having at least one block on the disk. Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hodge, Robert L Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:47 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: CPOWNED Devices I've renamed spool volumes several times, four or more years ago, but a force start was required. I don't recall whether it was VM/ESA or z/VM. I would recommend a spool backup before attempting it. And if it is for a production system, then schedule enough time to reload spool, if necessary. From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:36 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: CPOWNED Devices Yes, but an experiment using those areas does not necessarily translate to renaming of a spool volume. It would seem reasonable that renaming would be OK, but it doesn't hurt to hear it from the Oracle. Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Bates Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:29 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: CPOWNED Devices I don't believe that will cause any problems. I've done it recently with the checkpoint and warm start areas (renamed the volume they are on) and was able to come up without a problem and find all my spool files. As long as the volumes remain in the same slots, you should be fine. Bob Bates Enterprise Hosting Services - Enterprise Virtualization - z/VM and z/Linux http://ehs.homestead.wellsfargo.com/Mainframe/zSS/zSE/zVM-zLinux/Pages/ default.aspx w. (469)892-6660 c. (214) 907-5071 This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:59 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: CPOWNED Devices Will it kill spool if I 1. Reliable a spool disk and 2. Chnge the entry in the cpowned list, replacing the old volser with the new? Regards, Richard Schuh
Re: CPOWNED Devices
I've renamed spool volumes several times, four or more years ago, but a force start was required. I don't recall whether it was VM/ESA or z/VM. I would recommend a spool backup before attempting it. And if it is for a production system, then schedule enough time to reload spool, if necessary. A FORCE start will be required since the new CP_Owned list does not match the CP_Owned list that was saved in the checkpoint area when you shut down your system. The spool files are restored from the warmstart area during IPL, so they should be ok. You do risk losing information that was saved in the checkpoint area that hasn't been processed by the time the difference in the CP_Owned list is detected. In any event, I agree that a spool file backup is a good idea before attempting this change. John Franciscovich z/VM Development
Re: CPOWNED Devices
The Oracle or one of its agents has spoken. Thanks, John. Would marking the disk as draining in the config file prevent the loss of anything caused by the timing of the detection of the difference that you describe? Another question, would backing up only files that are at least partially contained on the disk be sufficient? We are talking about a spool system that normally fluctuates between 7000 and 18000 files, many of them quite large, and we are stuck with old tape technology (3 tapes to contain a DDR of a 3390-03). It would be my luck that it would be the higher number when my scheduled time arrived so that backing up the entire spool would take quite a bit of time. I envision a process like this: Before IPL (all can be done while the system is running) 1. DRAIN the disk, including update of SYSTEM CONFIG to indicate that it was to be drained or draining at IPL. 2. Use SPFACK to identify files that have at least 1 block on the pack. 3. PURGE unnecessary files. 4. Use SPXTAPE DUMP/LOAD to move the remaining files to the other spool volumes. 5. Reliable the pack. 6. Update the system config with the new volser. The pack would be left in the draining state. After IPL 1. FORCE start. 2. Update system config so that the disk is no longer draining. 3 Start the device. Would that be safe enough? If so, it would minimize the down time, which is a major consideration. I would also schedule the IPL to coincide with already scheduled activities that require the system to be down. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Franciscovich Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:09 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: CPOWNED Devices I've renamed spool volumes several times, four or more years ago, but a force start was required. I don't recall whether it was VM/ESA or z/VM. I would recommend a spool backup before attempting it. And if it is for a production system, then schedule enough time to reload spool, if necessary. A FORCE start will be required since the new CP_Owned list does not match the CP_Owned list that was saved in the checkpoint area when you shut down your system. The spool files are restored from the warmstart area during IPL, so they should be ok. You do risk losing information that was saved in the checkpoint area that hasn't been processed by the time the difference in the CP_Owned list is detected. In any event, I agree that a spool file backup is a good idea before attempting this change. John Franciscovich z/VM Development
