Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators
Mike Walter [EMAIL PROTECTED] went on at length about the Scroll Lock key: snip...visual indicator icon that appears in the right-most XP tray (System tray?; can't ever remember the windows tray names Formerly System Tray, now Notification Area, IIRC. Not an improvement in the name. And: They try to squeeze more keys on the keyboard but won't get rid of this one, which as far as I know has not been used since DOS days gone by. A few things still use it: Excel changes behavior, and as DavidK noted, some hardware KVMs use it for switching. But this gets me off on one of my rants: when I finish my time machine, I'm going to go back, find whoever created each of the two or three hundred 3270 emulators out there, and (a) make sure they PAY ATTENTION to the real 3270 keyboard and by default emulate that -- and that they do it all the same. And that all the keys are remappable. I once (17 years ago) spent a week at a customer site working on an issue that required two sessions. Emulators back then were single-session, so he had two emulator cards (remember them?) in his PC. One used the ENTER key for ENTER; one used the right CTRL key. And they weren't remappable. I think I burned out a statistically significant portion of my brain that week, hitting the wrong key and waiting for something to happen... When I get that fixed, I'm also going to find whoever decided *ix should be case-sensitive and cure him. Chuckie, you wanna come help? ...phsiii
Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators
phsiii wrote: Mike Walter [EMAIL PROTECTED] went on at length about the Scroll Lock key: Who, me? At length? Hah! That was significantly edited down from the emotional content that is deserves! But you pretty well summed it up yourself! Oh, and thanks for unmasking my e-mail address, I'll be sure to forward all the new spam I get directly to you. ;-) ... I'm also going to find whoever decided *ix should be case-sensitive and cure him. Chuckie, you wanna come help? Thanks, Phil - that just made my day: cure him - gotta love it! Made me laugh out loud. :-) Mike Walter Hewitt Associates The opinions expressed herein are mine alone, not my employer's. The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited.
Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators
If Chuckie's busy that day, I'll come along instead..:-) Case sensitive operating systems, sheesh DJ Phil Smith III wrote: Mike Walter [EMAIL PROTECTED] went on at length about the Scroll Lock key: snip...visual indicator icon that appears in the right-most XP tray (System tray?; can't ever remember the windows tray names Formerly System Tray, now Notification Area, IIRC. Not an improvement in the name. And: They try to squeeze more keys on the keyboard but won't get rid of this one, which as far as I know has not been used since DOS days gone by. A few things still use it: Excel changes behavior, and as DavidK noted, some hardware KVMs use it for switching. But this gets me off on one of my rants: when I finish my time machine, I'm going to go back, find whoever created each of the two or three hundred 3270 emulators out there, and (a) make sure they PAY ATTENTION to the real 3270 keyboard and by default emulate that -- and that they do it all the same. And that all the keys are remappable. I once (17 years ago) spent a week at a customer site working on an issue that required two sessions. Emulators back then were single-session, so he had two emulator cards (remember them?) in his PC. One used the ENTER key for ENTER; one used the right CTRL key. And they weren't remappable. I think I burned out a statistically significant portion of my brain that week, hitting the wrong key and waiting for something to happen... When I get that fixed, I'm also going to find whoever decided *ix should be case-sensitive and cure him. Chuckie, you wanna come help? ...phsiii
Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators
You can probably expect that everybody who has entered a not in this thread will volunteer for that mission. Count me in. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Jones Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 9:31 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject:Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators If Chuckie's busy that day, I'll come along instead..:-) Case sensitive operating systems, sheesh DJ Phil Smith III wrote: Mike Walter [EMAIL PROTECTED] went on at length about the Scroll Lock key: snip...visual indicator icon that appears in the right-most XP tray (System tray?; can't ever remember the windows tray names Formerly System Tray, now Notification Area, IIRC. Not an improvement in the name. And: They try to squeeze more keys on the keyboard but won't get rid of this one, which as far as I know has not been used since DOS days gone by. A few things still use it: Excel changes behavior, and as DavidK noted, some hardware KVMs use it for switching. But this gets me off on one of my rants: when I finish my time machine, I'm going to go back, find whoever created each of the two or three hundred 3270 emulators out there, and (a) make sure they PAY ATTENTION to the real 3270 keyboard and by default emulate that -- and that they do it all the same. And that all the keys are remappable. I once (17 years ago) spent a week at a customer site working on an issue that required two sessions. Emulators back then were single-session, so he had two emulator cards (remember them?) in his PC. One used the ENTER key for ENTER; one used the right CTRL key. And they weren't remappable. I think I burned out a statistically significant portion of my brain that week, hitting the wrong key and waiting for something to happen... When I get that fixed, I'm also going to find whoever decided *ix should be case-sensitive and cure him. Chuckie, you wanna come help? ...phsiii
Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators
Surely all of you remember that CMS, too, is case sensitive? We're just so used to running with an implicit 'ADDRESS CMS', not 'ADDRESS COMMAND,' so we don't have to upper case our command names or file names. For real fun, watch editors correct references to vi to fit the local convention (commands must be upper cased!) or SHARE schedulers from other programs fix session titles (Shouldn't that be: Intro to the VI Editor?). Schuh, Richard wrote: You can probably expect that everybody who has entered a not in this thread will volunteer for that mission. Count me in. Regards, Richard Schuh
Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators
On: Fri, Jun 16, 2006 at 11:30:54AM -0500,Dave Jones Wrote: } If Chuckie's busy that day, I'll come along instead..:-) Case } sensitive operating systems, sheesh It depends on what you are used to. When I was working at Locus (the developers of AIX/370), all of the unix weenies looked at VM and complained that it wasn't case sensitive. -- Rich Greenberg N Ft Myers, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 239 543 1353 Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself my dogs only.VM'er since CP-67 Canines:Val, Red Shasta (RIP),Red, Zero Casey, Siberians Owner:Chinook-L Retired at the beachAsst Owner:Sibernet-L
Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators
David Boyes Sine Nomine Associates When I get that fixed, I'm also going to find whoever decided *ix should be case-sensitive and cure him ...phsiii Just wait until you get a Plan 9 system. Case sensitive, character set sensitive, 32-bit character set (full ISO 10646 support)... -- db
Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators
On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:21:17 -0400, David Boyes wrote: David Boyes Sine Nomine Associates When I get that fixed, I'm also going to find whoever decided *ix should be case-sensitive and cure him ...phsiii Just wait until you get a Plan 9 system. Case sensitive, character set sensitive, 32-bit character set (full ISO 10646 support)... -- db Or a newer Teradata database engine: it is the same way. Lloyd
Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators
delurk again This may be apocryphal, but I've heard a story where Seymour Cray was once asked why the Cray 1 operating system was case-sensitive. His reply was that he didn't want to waste CPU cycles on case conversion that could be better spent on number crunching. Later, Ray /delurk again -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lloyd Fuller Sent: Friday June 16 2006 13:47 To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:21:17 -0400, David Boyes wrote: David Boyes Sine Nomine Associates When I get that fixed, I'm also going to find whoever decided *ix should be case-sensitive and cure him ...phsiii Just wait until you get a Plan 9 system. Case sensitive, character set sensitive, 32-bit character set (full ISO 10646 support)... -- db Or a newer Teradata database engine: it is the same way. Lloyd
Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators
Considering that he thought ECC was a waste of cycles, I would tend to believe that. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray Mullins Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 2:10 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject:Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators delurk again This may be apocryphal, but I've heard a story where Seymour Cray was once asked why the Cray 1 operating system was case-sensitive. His reply was that he didn't want to waste CPU cycles on case conversion that could be better spent on number crunching. Later, Ray /delurk again -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lloyd Fuller Sent: Friday June 16 2006 13:47 To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:21:17 -0400, David Boyes wrote: David Boyes Sine Nomine Associates When I get that fixed, I'm also going to find whoever decided *ix should be case-sensitive and cure him ...phsiii Just wait until you get a Plan 9 system. Case sensitive, character set sensitive, 32-bit character set (full ISO 10646 support)... -- db Or a newer Teradata database engine: it is the same way. Lloyd
Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators
Does this help? Scroll-Lock Key When the Scroll Lock keyboard indicator is turned on, the cursor movement keys and the Page Up and Page Down keys are used to scroll windows only when you specify With Scroll-Bar in the Window Setup window. If you specify Without Scroll-Bar, you cannot use the Scroll Lock key, because the entire screen is displayed. For example, cursor-movement keys do nothing in Scroll Lock mode. Gregg No plan survives execution revised: 01Jun06 file:\\Usfs01\Common\CPPS\VM\VMCapPlan.htm Mike Walter [EMAIL PROTECTED] tt.comTo Sent by: The IBM IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU z/VM Operating cc System [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject ARK.EDU OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators 06/15/2006 10:17 Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System [EMAIL PROTECTED] ARK.EDU We use IBM Personal Communications for 3270 emulation (PLEASE, I like it and I also have absolutely NO SAY in what we use - let's not suggest alternatives for this one problem). When the Scroll Lock (or ScrLk) key is (always accidentally) pressed from an emulated 3270, odd and very frustrating things happen. On my full keyboards I always just pull the Scroll Lock keycap right off they keyboard (along with the stupid Windows keys). But my IBM X41 laptop has Scroll Lock (defined as the lower-case key) and NumLock key (defined as the uppercase key) on the same key, so I cannot readily pry that keycap off without losing NumLock, too. PCOM's keyboard remapping utility won't allow you to re-map (or turn off) the Scroll Lock key. Has anyone else discovered a way to forcibly prevent this cursed key from working while in a 3270 emulator session? Thanks in advance. Mike Walter Hewitt Associates The opinions expressed herein are mine alone, not my employer's. The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited.
Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators
On: Thu, Jun 15, 2006 at 09:06:44AM -0700,Schuh, Richard Wrote: } I would like to get rid of the damned Caps Lock, too. Also, with my keyboard shortcomings, I would like to be given the choice of disabling all keyboard shortcuts by default, with the ability to selectively enable specific ones. Too many times, I find myself in some strange land with no idea where I am or how I got there. And it usually isn't Oz where I find myself. For that matter, it isn't Kansas, either. To disable caps lock, go to http://www.brainsystems.com/capsunlock/ and d/l thier http://www.brainsystems.com/capsunlock/; utility. Its freeware. -- Rich Greenberg N Ft Myers, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 239 543 1353 Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself my dogs only.VM'er since CP-67 Canines:Val, Red Shasta (RIP),Red, Zero Casey, Siberians Owner:Chinook-L Retired at the beachAsst Owner:Sibernet-L
Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators
I've seen all kinds of variations of problems. Use use ScrollLock a LOT because it is the hot key for my KVM (which is typically the case). You press it twice quickly to jump from KVM session to session. Unfortunately, sometimes the Scroll Lock light is synched with what the key is doing on the host (can we really call Windows a host?!?!) and sometimes it isn't - so ScrollLock may be active on the OS but the light may not be lit. When this happens the cursor movement keys don't work correctly, sometimes the alpha-numeric keys don't work when typing on an input field (and sometimes they are buffered somewhere and when you press ScrollLock again they are released from the buffer). All kinds of wierdness. I also run PCOMM in a Micro$oft Virtual Machine running Winblows XP. In THIS instance when ScrollLock is active and your cursur is outside of the MS VPC window, when you click within the MS VPC window to restore mouse controls to the MS VPC, it sends an instruction to PCOMM to CLEAR THE SCREEN. THAT's the most annying thing in the world if you had important data on the screen, which always seems to be the case in my circumstance. :) I'd also love to be able to disable or remap the ScrollLock key, but preferably in the BIOS so it's OS independent. Michael Coffin, President MC Consulting Company, Inc. 57 Tamarack Drive Stoughton, Massachusetts 02072 Voice: (781) 344-9837FAX: (781) 344-7683 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mccci.com We employ aggressive SPAM filters. If you cannot reply or send email to mccci.com go to www.mccci.com/spamblockremove.php Click here to help fight the war on Spam! Report an unsolicited commercial email or a spamming organization. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gregg Reed Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 11:24 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators Sorry, well there may be a registry hack... The Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator won't change it, just as the PCOMM manual states: There are seven keys that you cannot redefine and they are gray or dimmed in Keyboard Setup; these keys are: Alt, AltGr, Print Screen, Scroll Lock, CapsLock, NumLock, and Shift. I'm curious though what the frustrating things are... Gregg No plan survives execution revised: 01Jun06 file:\\Usfs01\Common\CPPS\VM\VMCapPlan.htm Mike Walter [EMAIL PROTECTED] tt.com To Sent by: The IBM IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU z/VM Operating cc System [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject ARK.EDU Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators 06/15/2006 11:08 Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System [EMAIL PROTECTED] ARK.EDU Nice to know, but I usually don't have the scroll-bar turned on to that I can see the full screen, even if I shrink the window size. Thanks. Still want to just turn off the damned key! :-) Mike Gregg Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 06/15/2006 10:03 AM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators Does this help? Scroll-Lock Key When the Scroll Lock keyboard indicator is turned on, the cursor movement keys and the Page Up and Page Down keys are used to scroll windows only when you specify With Scroll-Bar in the Window Setup window. If you specify Without Scroll-Bar, you cannot use the Scroll Lock key, because the entire screen is displayed. For example, cursor-movement keys do nothing in Scroll Lock mode. Gregg No plan survives execution revised: 01Jun06 file:\\Usfs01\Common\CPPS\VM\VMCapPlan.htm Mike Walter [EMAIL PROTECTED] tt.com To Sent by: The IBM IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU z/VM Operating cc System [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject ARK.EDU OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators 06/15/2006 10:17 Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System [EMAIL PROTECTED] ARK.EDU We use IBM Personal Communications for 3270 emulation (PLEASE, I like it and I also have absolutely NO SAY in what we use - let's not suggest alternatives for this one problem). When the Scroll Lock (or ScrLk) key is (always accidentally) pressed from an emulated 3270, odd and very frustrating things happen. On my full keyboards I always just pull the Scroll Lock keycap right off they keyboard (along with the stupid Windows keys). But my IBM X41 laptop has Scroll Lock (defined
Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators
On 6/15/06, Schuh, Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to get rid of the damned Caps Lock, too. I think my colleague blocked it by stuffing part of a match under it. :-) Rob PS Reminds me of the days when we put chewing gum in the piezo tweeter of the 3180 because the long POR beep was so loud and could not be configured less loud (unlike the normal beep).
Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators
I would like to get rid of the damned Caps Lock, too. I think my colleague blocked it by stuffing part of a match under it. :-) Lit or unlit? (Sorry, Influence du Chucky) ___ James Vincent Systems Engineering Consultant Nationwide Services Co., Technology Solutions Mainframe, z/VM and z/Linux Support One Nationwide Plaza 3-25-02 Columbus OH 43215-2220 U.S.A Voice: (614) 249-5547Fax: (614) 677-7681 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators
I HAVE Attachmate Extra! As my terminal emulator. It accepts a change in the definition of the Caps Lock key. For example, I changed mine to Shift. The problem is that it changes the apparent name of the key, but not the function. And you think you have it bad with PCOM. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Vincent Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:18 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject:Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators I would like to get rid of the damned Caps Lock, too. I think my colleague blocked it by stuffing part of a match under it. :-) Lit or unlit? (Sorry, Influence du Chucky) ___ James Vincent Systems Engineering Consultant Nationwide Services Co., Technology Solutions Mainframe, z/VM and z/Linux Support One Nationwide Plaza 3-25-02 Columbus OH 43215-2220 U.S.A Voice: (614) 249-5547Fax: (614) 677-7681 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators
Thanks, Alan - already have the Lenovo Scroll-Lock utility installed. It's a nice visual indicator icon that appears in the right-most XP tray (System tray?; can't ever remember the windows tray names - don't often care). And that or another Lenovo utility cause a rising tone beep when it (or the caps lock key) is pressed and a descending tone beep when turned off. Both really handy features (especially the tone for us less visually aware users), assuming that you noticed you pressed a useless key (except for the KVM use - great use of an otherwise useless key!), actually notice the icon, and are using a Lenovo laptop. But when using anything but a Lenovo machine you're pretty much stuck with yanking the keycap (which has not been done on the command center keyboards running 3270 emulators). I liked Rob's idea to stick something under key - but on the laptop that's a mighty tiny key. Since it was just Scroll Lock and Num Lock for a pretty brain-dead numeric keypad overlay I just removed the key. If that fails to work, maybe a lit match *will* do the trick. ;-) Mike Walter Hewitt Associates The opinions expressed herein are mine alone, not my employer's. Alan Altmark [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 06/15/2006 01:08 PM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators On Thursday, 06/15/2006 at 09:17 EST, Mike Walter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But my IBM X41 laptop has Scroll Lock (defined as the lower-case key) and NumLock key (defined as the uppercase key) on the same key, so I cannot readily pry that keycap off without losing NumLock, too. FWIW, Lenovo offers a Scroll Lock Indicator Utility for Windows machines (dunno 'bout Linux). While it doesn't shut it off, it will place a visual indicator in the system tray. While more noticable than the itty-bitty ScrLck light on my keyboard, I think a USB-powered Xenon flashbulb would be better. Or maybe some sort of klaxon. Or an electrical shock applied to the buttocks. Or an audible warning. Or shut off the display. Sometimes negative reinforcement works a treat. When it comes to Scroll Lock, I'll take whatever help They offer. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited.
Re: OT: Cursed Scroll Lock key vs 3270 emulators
delurk I've done that on my work laptop with the USD 5.00 add-on wireless keyboard, which is sans indicator lights. The keyboard came with some state software, where it puts the status of caps, num and scroll in the Windoze SysTray, but I use a hiding taskbar so it's not always apparent to me. Later, Ray /delurk --M. Ray MullinsRoseville, CA, USAhttp://www.catherdersoftware.com/http://www.mrmullins.big-bear-city.ca.us/http://www.the-bus-stops-here.org/German is essentially a form of assembly language consisting entirely of far calls heavily accented with throaty guttural sounds.--ilvi From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roger BolanSent: Thursday 15 June 2006 15:23To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDUSubject: Re: OT: Cursed "Scroll Lock" key vs 3270 emulators How about trying the Accessibility Options in the Windows Control Panel and turn on ToggleKeys. That way CapsLock, NumLock, and ScrollLock all beep when you press them. That should alert you whenever you press one by accident. Regards, Roger BolanIBM Printing Systems Division Visit our Web site at http://www.ibm.com/printers.
