Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
Tom, Come to a meeting of the Metropolitan VM Users Association and you will see some VM newbies and VM returnee's. We are getting new member companies and member companies that left VM and came back. Hallelujah. I too started as a DOS/VS Operator then System Programmer all the way up to VSE/SP 2.1, my first VM logon screen also said VM/370. Then in 1990 I was sent to 2 weeks of VM classes at IBM in Crystal City, Virginia. CP and CMS internals classes. Now I was a VM systems programmer and I have ridden the HIGHs of the 90's with thousands of PROFS users and hundreds of VSE guests all running under my VM systems, to the lows of the late 90's and early 2000's and now once again the revitialization of z/VM for hundreds of LINUX guests. Hallelujah again Anyway Phil and everyone have a great SHARE take care Bill Munson VM System Programmer Office of Information Technology State of New Jersey (609) 984-4065 President MVMUA http://www.marist.edu/~mvmua Huegel, Thomas wrote: Phil, It has been a realy long time since I had the oppertunity to meet a VM newbie, but I can still remember some 30+ yrs. ago when I was one. Comming from a pure 360/DOS shop I was totally amazed at the powers of VM/370. I can remember as I peeled back the layers of VM being amazed each time I found something new, and then figuring out how to use this new treasure. The interesting thing is that even then I was not a VM systems programmer, I was hired to install and maintain DOS/VS rel 34.. Maybe things don't change all that much. Tom -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Phil Smith III Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 8:16 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers Schuh, Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the other hand, many companies have their heads buried in the sand when it comes to this issue. They acknowledge that there is a problem (add TPF to the list of OSes) and say that they are going to do something about it. Guess what, they never do. They see an increase in personnel costs that makes them put it on the back burner. Eventually, they get hit by the retirement or other loss of a key player and either muddle through with existing personnel, hire outside contractors, or outsource. As far as the demand for VM sysprogs is concerned, the increase in the number of VM licenses has not been met by a corresponding increase in demand for VM sysprogs. I attribute that to the fact that VM has become nearly shrink-wrapped over the years. It takes far less sysprog time to support a system now than it did 30, or 20, or even 10 years ago. The smaller companies look on it almost the same as they do the OSes for x86 based systems - it is part of an appliance. They count the number of x86 systems they have and justify staff based on the numbers. The have only 1 zSystem, so hiring staff to support its OS is not justifiable. What, VM crashed!! Call the Maytag repairman. Indeed. As a vendor, I've seen an astounding decrease in VM skills on the part of customers. Many/most of the new VM customers have *no* VM expertise to speak of, yet are trying to run systems with multiple Linux guests. Some of them have MVS expertise, which is sort of a good thing -- sort of because while it means things like IOCP and PR/SM are familiar, The MVS Way of doing things represents its own challenges (Nobody needs XSTORE any more, things like that). I find that I deal with a lot of very smart but *very* VM-ignorant people, with Linux, AIX, and/or Windows as their background. That means that I spend more of my time onsite, doing things that might arguably be not my job, but which are necessary for the customer to succeed. I think we're in a saddle of the curve. Companies haven't yet had enough experience on the platform to make the staffing justification that they would if it was only one TPF system (running the company's $xxx,xxx,xxx transactions!) or if it was 50 standalone Linux boxes, which of course requires at least one staffer. This is sort of like the early days of Windows servers -- Hey, Fred has a PC at home, he can do it. Only of course having a PC and running a server farm aren't equivalent, which most(?) companies have learned by now. Meanwhile, they hear Linux and free and one mainframe and think Hey, Bob can handle that, he's not that busy, all he does is apply Windows patches and order new hardware, and we won't have to order as much hardware now. Over time, they'll realize that Bob can't keep up with the load and become more realistic, and will be looking for VM skills. Whether that translates into realistic salary expectations remains to be seen: some sites will have drunk so much of the It's Free! Kool-Aid that they will have a rude shock when they do make that realization and start trying to hire experienced VM people. Meanwhile, it's great
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
Phil, It has been a realy long time since I had the oppertunity to meet a VM newbie, but I can still remember some 30+ yrs. ago when I was one. Comming from a pure 360/DOS shop I was totally amazed at the powers of VM/370. I can remember as I peeled back the layers of VM being amazed each time I found something new, and then figuring out how to use this new treasure. The interesting thing is that even then I was not a VM systems programmer, I was hired to install and maintain DOS/VS rel 34.. Maybe things don't change all that much. Tom -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Phil Smith III Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 8:16 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers Schuh, Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the other hand, many companies have their heads buried in the sand when it comes to this issue. They acknowledge that there is a problem (add TPF to the list of OSes) and say that they are going to do something about it. Guess what, they never do. They see an increase in personnel costs that makes them put it on the back burner. Eventually, they get hit by the retirement or other loss of a key player and either muddle through with existing personnel, hire outside contractors, or outsource. As far as the demand for VM sysprogs is concerned, the increase in the number of VM licenses has not been met by a corresponding increase in demand for VM sysprogs. I attribute that to the fact that VM has become nearly shrink-wrapped over the years. It takes far less sysprog time to support a system now than it did 30, or 20, or even 10 years ago. The smaller companies look on it almost the same as they do the OSes for x86 based systems - it is part of an appliance. They count the number of x86 systems they have and justify staff based on the numbers. The have only 1 zSystem, so hiring staff to support its OS is not justifiable. What, VM crashed!! Call the Maytag repairman. Indeed. As a vendor, I've seen an astounding decrease in VM skills on the part of customers. Many/most of the new VM customers have *no* VM expertise to speak of, yet are trying to run systems with multiple Linux guests. Some of them have MVS expertise, which is sort of a good thing -- sort of because while it means things like IOCP and PR/SM are familiar, The MVS Way of doing things represents its own challenges (Nobody needs XSTORE any more, things like that). I find that I deal with a lot of very smart but *very* VM-ignorant people, with Linux, AIX, and/or Windows as their background. That means that I spend more of my time onsite, doing things that might arguably be not my job, but which are necessary for the customer to succeed. I think we're in a saddle of the curve. Companies haven't yet had enough experience on the platform to make the staffing justification that they would if it was only one TPF system (running the company's $xxx,xxx,xxx transactions!) or if it was 50 standalone Linux boxes, which of course requires at least one staffer. This is sort of like the early days of Windows servers -- Hey, Fred has a PC at home, he can do it. Only of course having a PC and running a server farm aren't equivalent, which most(?) companies have learned by now. Meanwhile, they hear Linux and free and one mainframe and think Hey, Bob can handle that, he's not that busy, all he does is apply Windows patches and order new hardware, and we won't have to order as much hardware now. Over time, they'll realize that Bob can't keep up with the load and become more realistic, and will be looking for VM skills. Whether that translates into realistic salary expectations remains to be seen: some sites will have drunk so much of the It's Free! Kool-Aid that they will have a rude shock when they do make that realization and start trying to hire experienced VM people. Meanwhile, it's great fun working with these z/VM newbies, and seeing the platform growing and succeeding! ...phsiii
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
Alan Ackerman wrote: http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/januaryfebruary08/features/1896 3p3 .aspx said: The typical organization might have one technician for every two or three users. Hunh? When was this ever true? Most MVS sites? Alan Ackerman Alan (dot) Ackerman (at) Bank of America (dot) com Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
Minor typo. If year 1970 insert hundred before users, else insert thousand. In context, it's obvious that the author assumes that the only users our glass house mainframes supported were on 3270's. (Side bets that Mr. Wallis is old enough to have ever _seen_ a 3270, anyone?) -Chip- On 2/22/08 05:45 Alan Ackerman said: http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/januaryfebruary08/features/18963p3.aspx said: The typical organization might have one technician for every two or three users. Hunh? When was this ever true? Alan Ackerman Alan (dot) Ackerman (at) Bank of America (dot) com
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
Alan, Not in my life time anyway. Bill Munson VM System Programmer Office of Information Technology State of New Jersey (609) 984-4065 President MVMUA http://www.marist.edu/~mvmua Alan Ackerman wrote: http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/januaryfebruary08/features/18963p3 .aspx said: The typical organization might have one technician for every two or three users. Hunh? When was this ever true? Alan Ackerman Alan (dot) Ackerman (at) Bank of America (dot) com
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
You know, I've been thinking about this and I just don't think I buy this article, or this hoopla that we've heard for several years about the aging mainframer and how to replace them and how scarce they are. I just don't see that many job openings for MVS or VM. And I sure don't see skyrocketing salaries, in fact IBM just cut salaries of a lot of mainframers 15%. Now that is supposed to be offset by overtime but those that I've talked to indicated overtime isn't allowed. Personally, I think this is just a way to get more h1b visas approved. If MVS or VM sysprogs were such a hot commodity, salaries would be rising. Thoughts? MA
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
I too feel the same way that you do about this article. You may have a point there on the H1B visas, I hadn't thought much about it. Jim Dodds Systems Programmer Kentucky State University 400 East Main Street Frankfort, Ky 40601 502 597 6114 From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary Anne Matyaz Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 10:20 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers You know, I've been thinking about this and I just don't think I buy this article, or this hoopla that we've heard for several years about the aging mainframer and how to replace them and how scarce they are. I just don't see that many job openings for MVS or VM. And I sure don't see skyrocketing salaries, in fact IBM just cut salaries of a lot of mainframers 15%. Now that is supposed to be offset by overtime but those that I've talked to indicated overtime isn't allowed. Personally, I think this is just a way to get more h1b visas approved. If MVS or VM sysprogs were such a hot commodity, salaries would be rising. Thoughts? MA
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 10:19:42AM -0500, Mary Anne Matyaz wrote: You know, I've been thinking about this and I just don't think I buy this article, or this hoopla that we've heard for several years about the aging mainframer and how to replace them and how scarce they are. I just don't see that many job openings for MVS or VM. And I sure don't see skyrocketing salaries, in fact IBM just cut salaries of a lot of mainframers 15%. Now that is supposed to be offset by overtime but those that I've talked to indicated overtime isn't allowed. Personally, I think this is just a way to get more h1b visas approved. If MVS or VM sysprogs were such a hot commodity, salaries would be rising. Thoughts? I agree there don't seem to be many openings for systems programmers. I don't hear a lot about new blood coming in, but SOMEBODY has to be filling in for every sysprog that retires. Maybe services companies like PSR are taking over. Perhaps the large shops are promoting from within. Now that I think about it, I don't see many ads seeking operators, either--a prime source of new systems talent. I'd hate to think this is all about expanding H1-Bs, but you could be right. -- May the LORD God bless you exceedingly abundantly! Dave Craig - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 'So the universe is not quite as you thought it was. You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then. Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe.' --from _Nightfall_ by Asimov/Silverberg
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
Have a very close friend out of work, several others struggling to make a living freelancing. All could write an assembler program while attending a soccer match and the code would be PERFECT. Years and years of mainframe experience. The guy completely out of work has no prospects in sight, the others are barely holding on with contract work that's few and far between. None seek ridiculous salaries or charge ridiculous rates. If there's all these jobs, where ARE they? Gotta agree with Mary Anne, it doesn't add up... Mary Anne Matyaz wrote: You know, I've been thinking about this and I just don't think I buy this article, or this hoopla that we've heard for several years about the aging mainframer and how to replace them and how scarce they are. snip
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
In the early days of TSO, the early 70s, a lot of companies only had 2 or 3 terminals that were shared by many. That would limit them to only 2 or 3 concurrently logged on users. Other than that, the author either misstated what was intended or could have pulled the number from someplace where the sun doesn't shine. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan Ackerman Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:46 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/januaryfebruary08/featu res/18963p3= .aspx said: The typical organization might have one technician for every two or three users. Hunh? When was this ever true? Alan Ackerman Alan (dot) Ackerman (at) Bank of America (dot) com
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers (or is this a restart of the XEDIT thread?)
Some die-hards just have to keep kicking the same dead horse :-) At the height of our OV days at USAir, we had over 8100 registered OV users who were managed by 2 part time administrators. At any given time, only one part time administrator was needed; we had two to cover vacations, illness, etc. Your memory is still good Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rob van der Heij Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 11:47 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 6:45 AM, Alan Ackerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The typical organization might have one technician for every two or three users. Hunh? When was this ever true? In their dreams... unless you consider the gang of advanced Windows users to be their own engineers because they spend a fair amount of their time keeping their workstation (and that of their colleagues) running. From what I remember of a PROFS-based office environment, this would be at least 2 orders of magnitude off... But so all threads on our mailing list lead to the same... Imagine such a packed system programmer terminal room; you would *have* to agree on standards for XEDIT so that they don't go Excuse me, is this your prefix area or mine? Rob (it's Friday again)
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
On the other hand, many companies have their heads buried in the sand when it comes to this issue. They acknowledge that there is a problem (add TPF to the list of OSes) and say that they are going to do something about it. Guess what, they never do. They see an increase in personnel costs that makes them put it on the back burner. Eventually, they get hit by the retirement or other loss of a key player and either muddle through with existing personnel, hire outside contractors, or outsource. As far as the demand for VM sysprogs is concerned, the increase in the number of VM licenses has not been met by a corresponding increase in demand for VM sysprogs. I attribute that to the fact that VM has become nearly shrink-wrapped over the years. It takes far less sysprog time to support a system now than it did 30, or 20, or even 10 years ago. The smaller companies look on it almost the same as they do the OSes for x86 based systems - it is part of an appliance. They count the number of x86 systems they have and justify staff based on the numbers. The have only 1 zSystem, so hiring staff to support its OS is not justifiable. What, VM crashed!! Call the Maytag repairman. Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary Anne Matyaz Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 7:20 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers You know, I've been thinking about this and I just don't think I buy this article, or this hoopla that we've heard for several years about the aging mainframer and how to replace them and how scarce they are. I just don't see that many job openings for MVS or VM. And I sure don't see skyrocketing salaries, in fact IBM just cut salaries of a lot of mainframers 15%. Now that is supposed to be offset by overtime but those that I've talked to indicated overtime isn't allowed. Personally, I think this is just a way to get more h1b visas approved. If MVS or VM sysprogs were such a hot commodity, salaries would be rising. Thoughts? MA
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
Don't forget that the elimination of sysprogs has long been an IBM goal, because that's what our managers told them was a priority issue for our companies. Remember the OCO wars? At least the VM community didn't cave. Mike Harding EDS VM National Capability 134 El Portal Place Clayton, Ca. USA 94517-1742 * phone: +01-925-672-4403 * Fax: +01-925-672-4403 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (personal) Note: For 2008, I am off on Fridays with odd Julian dates and Mondays with even ones. From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Huegel, Thomas Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 7:28 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers Yes, Salaries would be rising, so would job opennings. I blame the VM developers at IBM, if they didn't produce such a great product we might need twice as many sysprogs. Years ago it used to take me anyplace from 6mo. to a year to install a new release of the operating system. Now it takes less than 1 month.
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/januaryfebruary08/features/18963p3 .aspx said: The typical organization might have one technician for every two or three users. Hunh? When was this ever true? Alan Ackerman Alan (dot) Ackerman (at) Bank of America (dot) com
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 6:45 AM, Alan Ackerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The typical organization might have one technician for every two or three users. Hunh? When was this ever true? In their dreams... unless you consider the gang of advanced Windows users to be their own engineers because they spend a fair amount of their time keeping their workstation (and that of their colleagues) running. From what I remember of a PROFS-based office environment, this would be at least 2 orders of magnitude off... But so all threads on our mailing list lead to the same... Imagine such a packed system programmer terminal room; you would *have* to agree on standards for XEDIT so that they don't go Excuse me, is this your prefix area or mine? Rob (it's Friday again)
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
When I look at it, Page 3 is the same as Page 1. Is something missing?? [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 02/19/2008 02:06 PM Please respond to IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers Watch the line wrap. I was able to get to it. Steve G. (Hi, Bob) -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Macioce, Larry Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 2:04 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers Got a 404 when I tired to look Mace -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Heerdink Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:57 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers Interesting article http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/januaryfebruary08/features/18963p 3= .as px In Search of Mainframe Engineers New technologies point to the future of mainframe computing January | February 2008 | by Ivan Wallis and Byron Rashed It may seem as if few people want to become mainframe engineers in today'= s glorified Web 2.0+ world, as newer platforms have become the focal point = for the next generation of young engineers. The result is a graying population of mainframe engineers, and unless more is done, when this generation of engineers retires there may not be enough qualified, skille= d and motivated professionals to maintain the still significant and relevan= t universe of mainframes systems. Compounding this engineer shortfall is that access to mainframe data has = multiplied in recent years. Previously, when these mainframes resided in glass houses and only a handful of 3270 terminals were connected, th= ey were relatively easy to administer and secure. The typical organization = might have one technician for every two or three users. Times have change= d. Today with applications shifting to UNIX* or Linux* on the mainframe, lar= ge enterprises or financial institutions might have hundreds of thousands of= users accessing data from the mainframe. This means one mainframe enginee= r might be responsible for supporting thousands of users, which is a much = larger and more challenging situation from a security perspective. As the older mainframe engineers leave the workforce, they take with them= decades of specialized knowledge about legacy applications and specialize= d systems. Without qualified replacements to train before they depart, this= knowledge could be lost forever, potentially compromising the security of= key corporate applications that still rely on mainframe systems. -- snip - I particularly like this part: Expanding the Mainframe's Role Bob - The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
I had the same result. Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 3:47 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers When I look at it, Page 3 is the same as Page 1. Is something missing?? [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 02/19/2008 02:06 PM Please respond to IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers Watch the line wrap. I was able to get to it. Steve G. (Hi, Bob) -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Macioce, Larry Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 2:04 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers Got a 404 when I tired to look Mace -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Heerdink Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:57 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers Interesting article http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/januaryfebruary08/features/18963p 3= .as px In Search of Mainframe Engineers New technologies point to the future of mainframe computing January | February 2008 | by Ivan Wallis and Byron Rashed It may seem as if few people want to become mainframe engineers in today'= s glorified Web 2.0+ world, as newer platforms have become the focal point = for the next generation of young engineers. The result is a graying population of mainframe engineers, and unless more is done, when this generation of engineers retires there may not be enough qualified, skille= d and motivated professionals to maintain the still significant and relevan= t universe of mainframes systems. Compounding this engineer shortfall is that access to mainframe data has = multiplied in recent years. Previously, when these mainframes resided in glass houses and only a handful of 3270 terminals were connected, th= ey were relatively easy to administer and secure. The typical organization = might have one technician for every two or three users. Times have change= d. Today with applications shifting to UNIX* or Linux* on the mainframe, lar= ge enterprises or financial institutions might have hundreds of thousands of= users accessing data from the mainframe. This means one mainframe enginee= r might be responsible for supporting thousands of users, which is a much = larger and more challenging situation from a security perspective. As the older mainframe engineers leave the workforce, they take with them= decades of specialized knowledge about legacy applications and specialize= d systems. Without qualified replacements to train before they depart, this= knowledge could be lost forever, potentially compromising the security of= key corporate applications that still rely on mainframe systems. -- snip - I particularly like this part: Expanding the Mainframe's Role Bob - The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:47:16 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I look at it, Page 3 is the same as Page 1. Is something missing? ? The OP gave a link to Page 3. You followed the link to page 2, and from there to page 3 again. Either click the link for Page 1 or change the tail of URL to start at page 1 (ie. 18963P1.ASPX). Brian Nielsen
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
Or... print the article. It worked for me the same day it was mentioned on the list. Mike Walter Hewitt Associates Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the opinions or policies of Hewitt Associates. The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. Emails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email.
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
Got a 404 when I tired to look Mace -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Heerdink Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:57 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers Interesting article http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/januaryfebruary08/features/18963p 3= .as px In Search of Mainframe Engineers New technologies point to the future of mainframe computing January | February 2008 | by Ivan Wallis and Byron Rashed It may seem as if few people want to become mainframe engineers in today'= s glorified Web 2.0+ world, as newer platforms have become the focal point = for the next generation of young engineers. The result is a graying population of mainframe engineers, and unless more is done, when this generation of engineers retires there may not be enough qualified, skille= d and motivated professionals to maintain the still significant and relevan= t universe of mainframes systems. Compounding this engineer shortfall is that access to mainframe data has = multiplied in recent years. Previously, when these mainframes resided in glass houses and only a handful of 3270 terminals were connected, th= ey were relatively easy to administer and secure. The typical organization = might have one technician for every two or three users. Times have change= d. Today with applications shifting to UNIX* or Linux* on the mainframe, lar= ge enterprises or financial institutions might have hundreds of thousands of= users accessing data from the mainframe. This means one mainframe enginee= r might be responsible for supporting thousands of users, which is a much = larger and more challenging situation from a security perspective. As the older mainframe engineers leave the workforce, they take with them= decades of specialized knowledge about legacy applications and specialize= d systems. Without qualified replacements to train before they depart, this= knowledge could be lost forever, potentially compromising the security of= key corporate applications that still rely on mainframe systems. -- snip - I particularly like this part: Expanding the Mainframe's Role Bob - The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
Try putting the link back together, it was split so the 3.aspx was on a new line. should end /18963p3.aspx On 2/19/08, Macioce, Larry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Got a 404 when I tired to look Mace -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Heerdink Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:57 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers Interesting article http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/januaryfebruary08/features/18963p 3= .as px In Search of Mainframe Engineers New technologies point to the future of mainframe computing January | February 2008 | by Ivan Wallis and Byron Rashed It may seem as if few people want to become mainframe engineers in today'= s glorified Web 2.0+ world, as newer platforms have become the focal point = for the next generation of young engineers. The result is a graying population of mainframe engineers, and unless more is done, when this generation of engineers retires there may not be enough qualified, skille= d and motivated professionals to maintain the still significant and relevan= t universe of mainframes systems. Compounding this engineer shortfall is that access to mainframe data has = multiplied in recent years. Previously, when these mainframes resided in glass houses and only a handful of 3270 terminals were connected, th= ey were relatively easy to administer and secure. The typical organization = might have one technician for every two or three users. Times have change= d. Today with applications shifting to UNIX* or Linux* on the mainframe, lar= ge enterprises or financial institutions might have hundreds of thousands of= users accessing data from the mainframe. This means one mainframe enginee= r might be responsible for supporting thousands of users, which is a much = larger and more challenging situation from a security perspective. As the older mainframe engineers leave the workforce, they take with them= decades of specialized knowledge about legacy applications and specialize= d systems. Without qualified replacements to train before they depart, this= knowledge could be lost forever, potentially compromising the security of= key corporate applications that still rely on mainframe systems. -- snip - I particularly like this part: Expanding the Mainframe's Role Bob - The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
Try putting the link back together, it is wrapped. It should end /18963p3.aspx On 2/19/08, Macioce, Larry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Got a 404 when I tired to look Mace -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Heerdink Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:57 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers Interesting article http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/januaryfebruary08/features/18963p 3= .as px In Search of Mainframe Engineers New technologies point to the future of mainframe computing January | February 2008 | by Ivan Wallis and Byron Rashed It may seem as if few people want to become mainframe engineers in today'= s glorified Web 2.0+ world, as newer platforms have become the focal point = for the next generation of young engineers. The result is a graying population of mainframe engineers, and unless more is done, when this generation of engineers retires there may not be enough qualified, skille= d and motivated professionals to maintain the still significant and relevan= t universe of mainframes systems. Compounding this engineer shortfall is that access to mainframe data has = multiplied in recent years. Previously, when these mainframes resided in glass houses and only a handful of 3270 terminals were connected, th= ey were relatively easy to administer and secure. The typical organization = might have one technician for every two or three users. Times have change= d. Today with applications shifting to UNIX* or Linux* on the mainframe, lar= ge enterprises or financial institutions might have hundreds of thousands of= users accessing data from the mainframe. This means one mainframe enginee= r might be responsible for supporting thousands of users, which is a much = larger and more challenging situation from a security perspective. As the older mainframe engineers leave the workforce, they take with them= decades of specialized knowledge about legacy applications and specialize= d systems. Without qualified replacements to train before they depart, this= knowledge could be lost forever, potentially compromising the security of= key corporate applications that still rely on mainframe systems. -- snip - I particularly like this part: Expanding the Mainframe's Role Bob - The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
I thought I did that but when I did it again it worked...I think I'm going crazy Thanks Mace -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Schmiedge Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 2:09 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers Try putting the link back together, it was split so the 3.aspx was on a new line. should end /18963p3.aspx On 2/19/08, Macioce, Larry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Got a 404 when I tired to look Mace -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Heerdink Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:57 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers Interesting article http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/januaryfebruary08/features/18963p 3= .as px In Search of Mainframe Engineers New technologies point to the future of mainframe computing January | February 2008 | by Ivan Wallis and Byron Rashed It may seem as if few people want to become mainframe engineers in today'= s glorified Web 2.0+ world, as newer platforms have become the focal point = for the next generation of young engineers. The result is a graying population of mainframe engineers, and unless more is done, when this generation of engineers retires there may not be enough qualified, skille= d and motivated professionals to maintain the still significant and relevan= t universe of mainframes systems. Compounding this engineer shortfall is that access to mainframe data has = multiplied in recent years. Previously, when these mainframes resided in glass houses and only a handful of 3270 terminals were connected, th= ey were relatively easy to administer and secure. The typical organization = might have one technician for every two or three users. Times have change= d. Today with applications shifting to UNIX* or Linux* on the mainframe, lar= ge enterprises or financial institutions might have hundreds of thousands of= users accessing data from the mainframe. This means one mainframe enginee= r might be responsible for supporting thousands of users, which is a much = larger and more challenging situation from a security perspective. As the older mainframe engineers leave the workforce, they take with them= decades of specialized knowledge about legacy applications and specialize= d systems. Without qualified replacements to train before they depart, this= knowledge could be lost forever, potentially compromising the security of= key corporate applications that still rely on mainframe systems. -- snip - I particularly like this part: Expanding the Mainframe's Role Bob - The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
It's wrapped.no wonder I hate that stuff..rap..wrap.. OK I won't quit my day job Mace -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Schmiedge Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 2:12 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers Try putting the link back together, it is wrapped. It should end /18963p3.aspx On 2/19/08, Macioce, Larry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Got a 404 when I tired to look Mace -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Heerdink Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:57 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers Interesting article http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/januaryfebruary08/features/18963p 3= .as px In Search of Mainframe Engineers New technologies point to the future of mainframe computing January | February 2008 | by Ivan Wallis and Byron Rashed It may seem as if few people want to become mainframe engineers in today'= s glorified Web 2.0+ world, as newer platforms have become the focal point = for the next generation of young engineers. The result is a graying population of mainframe engineers, and unless more is done, when this generation of engineers retires there may not be enough qualified, skille= d and motivated professionals to maintain the still significant and relevan= t universe of mainframes systems. Compounding this engineer shortfall is that access to mainframe data has = multiplied in recent years. Previously, when these mainframes resided in glass houses and only a handful of 3270 terminals were connected, th= ey were relatively easy to administer and secure. The typical organization = might have one technician for every two or three users. Times have change= d. Today with applications shifting to UNIX* or Linux* on the mainframe, lar= ge enterprises or financial institutions might have hundreds of thousands of= users accessing data from the mainframe. This means one mainframe enginee= r might be responsible for supporting thousands of users, which is a much = larger and more challenging situation from a security perspective. As the older mainframe engineers leave the workforce, they take with them= decades of specialized knowledge about legacy applications and specialize= d systems. Without qualified replacements to train before they depart, this= knowledge could be lost forever, potentially compromising the security of= key corporate applications that still rely on mainframe systems. -- snip - I particularly like this part: Expanding the Mainframe's Role Bob - The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers
Watch the line wrap. I was able to get to it. Steve G. (Hi, Bob) -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Macioce, Larry Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 2:04 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers Got a 404 when I tired to look Mace -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Heerdink Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:57 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Article: In Search of Mainframe Engineers Interesting article http://www.ibmsystemsmag.com/mainframe/januaryfebruary08/features/18963p 3= .as px In Search of Mainframe Engineers New technologies point to the future of mainframe computing January | February 2008 | by Ivan Wallis and Byron Rashed It may seem as if few people want to become mainframe engineers in today'= s glorified Web 2.0+ world, as newer platforms have become the focal point = for the next generation of young engineers. The result is a graying population of mainframe engineers, and unless more is done, when this generation of engineers retires there may not be enough qualified, skille= d and motivated professionals to maintain the still significant and relevan= t universe of mainframes systems. Compounding this engineer shortfall is that access to mainframe data has = multiplied in recent years. Previously, when these mainframes resided in glass houses and only a handful of 3270 terminals were connected, th= ey were relatively easy to administer and secure. The typical organization = might have one technician for every two or three users. Times have change= d. Today with applications shifting to UNIX* or Linux* on the mainframe, lar= ge enterprises or financial institutions might have hundreds of thousands of= users accessing data from the mainframe. This means one mainframe enginee= r might be responsible for supporting thousands of users, which is a much = larger and more challenging situation from a security perspective. As the older mainframe engineers leave the workforce, they take with them= decades of specialized knowledge about legacy applications and specialize= d systems. Without qualified replacements to train before they depart, this= knowledge could be lost forever, potentially compromising the security of= key corporate applications that still rely on mainframe systems. -- snip - I particularly like this part: Expanding the Mainframe's Role Bob - The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
