Re: z10 and z/VM 6.1
On Thursday, 10/14/2010 at 01:44 EDT, George Henke/NYLIC george_he...@newyorklife.com wrote: But will 6.1 run on a z9 or less? No, I've tried it. So for a seamless migration to new hardware, maybe it is not so bad to change one thing at a time and keep 5.4. True, there is less risk going from 6.1 to 6.2, than 5.4 to 6.2, but tomorrow never comes, what happens today determines what happens tomorrow. The way IBM has configured things for 6.1: shorter expiration date than 5.4, not much new functionality, no hardware downward compatibility below z10, 6.1 is, for all intents and purposes, a dead release. Hope Chuckie isn't listening. Chuckie is *always* listening, and I concur with the thought that you should never upgrade both hardware and software at the same time unless there is no alternative. -- Chuckie
z10 and z/VM 6.1
We are installing a z10 this weekend with z/VM 5.4. My question is what are my migration options for migration to z/VM 6.1? I don't suppose that 6.1 can run under 5.4, since 6.1 requires a z10+ and 5.4 does not? (If so, problem solved. Otherwise it looks I'll be limited to 1. LPAR the z/VM 6.1 or 2. Run the production 5.4 under 6.1) Frank M. Ramaekers Jr. Systems Programmer MCP, MCP+I, MCSE RHCE American Income Life Insurance Co. Phone: (254)761-6649 1200 Wooded Acres Dr. Fax: (254)741-5777 Waco, Texas 76701 _ This message contains information which is privileged and confidential and is solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any review, disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error, please destroy it immediately and notify us at privacy...@ailife.com.
Re: z10 and z/VM 6.1
You don't need 6.1 Just put VM64798 VM64879 VM64881 on 5.4 and you can run on z10. 5.4 has a longer TTL than 6.1. 6.1 does not have that much more functionality. Why would anyone go to a higher release that has a shorter expiration and not much more functionality? It's suboptimal. Put on the APARs for z10 and wait for 6.2 Frank M. Ramaekers framaek...@ailife.com Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 10/14/2010 11:17 AM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject z10 and z/VM 6.1 We are installing a z10 this weekend with z/VM 5.4. My question is what are my migration options for migration to z/VM 6.1? I don’t suppose that 6.1 can run under 5.4, since 6.1 requires a z10+ and 5.4 does not? (If so, problem solved. Otherwise it looks I’ll be limited to 1. LPAR the z/VM 6.1 or 2. Run the production 5.4 under 6.1) Frank M. Ramaekers Jr. Systems Programmer MCP, MCP+I, MCSE RHCE American Income Life Insurance Co. Phone: (254)761-6649 1200 Wooded Acres Dr. Fax: (254)741-5777 Waco, Texas 76701 _ This message contains information which is privileged and confidential and is solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any review, disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error, please destroy it immediately and notify us at privacy...@ailife.com.
Re: z10 and z/VM 6.1
Also, Frank, it should be noted, 6.1 will not run on a z9. You get a wait state code. It is not downward compatible, but 5.4 is both downward and upward compatible. It would be nice to bring up the software before the hardware comes in the door, just to shake things down. It is also not wise to change both software and hardware at the same time. Just one more reason to stick with 5.4. Everything I know about this I learned here. You don't need 6.1 Just put VM64798 VM64879 VM64881 on 5.4 and you can run on z10. 5.4 has a longer TTL than 6.1. 6.1 does not have that much more functionality. Why would anyone go to a higher release that has a shorter expiration and not much more functionality? It's suboptimal. Put on the APARs for z10 and wait for 6.2 Frank M. Ramaekers framaek...@ailife.com Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 10/14/2010 11:17 AM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject z10 and z/VM 6.1 We are installing a z10 this weekend with z/VM 5.4. My question is what are my migration options for migration to z/VM 6.1? I don’t suppose that 6.1 can run under 5.4, since 6.1 requires a z10+ and 5.4 does not? (If so, problem solved. Otherwise it looks I’ll be limited to 1. LPAR the z/VM 6.1 or 2. Run the production 5.4 under 6.1) Frank M. Ramaekers Jr. Systems Programmer MCP, MCP+I, MCSE RHCE American Income Life Insurance Co. Phone: (254)761-6649 1200 Wooded Acres Dr. Fax: (254)741-5777 Waco, Texas 76701 _ This message contains information which is privileged and confidential and is solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any review, disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error, please destroy it immediately and notify us at privacy...@ailife.com.
Re: z10 and z/VM 6.1
On 10/14/10 12:15 PM, George Henke/NYLIC george_he...@newyorklife.com wrote: 5.4 has a longer TTL than 6.1. 6.1 does not have that much more functionality. Why would anyone go to a higher release that has a shorter expiration and not much more functionality? One extenuating reason is that IBM is more likely to have tested the upgrade path for release N from release N-1 than release N-2. This is somewhat of a special case (5.4 being the last release before a major architecture level-set), but the changes to 6.2 made public so far are going to be doozies, and you don't need another annoying thing to worry about while you're learning that stuff. I think this is one case where I'd put up a 6.1 floor system and run the 5.4 production system in a guest. If you have Linux guests, they're pretty self contained, it's going to be fairly easy to move them to 1st level quickly, and your CMS users (if you have any) can do testing with both environments easily. Also, 6.2 isn't that far off, so you could stay current and move from 5.4 to 6.2 also in a guest, staying supported all the time.
Re: z10 and z/VM 6.1
Tested what upgrade path? There's an upgrade path?! Or maybe you are talking about running the 5.4 CMS under 6.1 CP or something like that? We're on George's page. There's nothing compelling in 6.1 for us. And we have a lot of new function in 5.4 available by SPE which is way easier to do. Holding out for 6.2 or whatever his number ends up being, Marcy -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of David Boyes Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 10:00 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: [IBMVM] z10 and z/VM 6.1 On 10/14/10 12:15 PM, George Henke/NYLIC george_he...@newyorklife.com wrote: 5.4 has a longer TTL than 6.1. 6.1 does not have that much more functionality. Why would anyone go to a higher release that has a shorter expiration and not much more functionality? One extenuating reason is that IBM is more likely to have tested the upgrade path for release N from release N-1 than release N-2. This is somewhat of a special case (5.4 being the last release before a major architecture level-set), but the changes to 6.2 made public so far are going to be doozies, and you don't need another annoying thing to worry about while you're learning that stuff. I think this is one case where I'd put up a 6.1 floor system and run the 5.4 production system in a guest. If you have Linux guests, they're pretty self contained, it's going to be fairly easy to move them to 1st level quickly, and your CMS users (if you have any) can do testing with both environments easily. Also, 6.2 isn't that far off, so you could stay current and move from 5.4 to 6.2 also in a guest, staying supported all the time.
Re: z10 and z/VM 6.1
I haven't tried it, but 6.1 should run as a guest of 5.4 on a z10 (or later.) z/VM does not hide or downgrade the architecture of the machine from the guest (as much as possible), so the machine features needed by 6.1 should still be available to a guest of 5.4 on a z10. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Frank M. Ramaekers framaek...@ailife.comwrote: We are installing a z10 this weekend with z/VM 5.4. My question is what are my migration options for migration to z/VM 6.1? I don’t suppose that 6.1 can run under 5.4, since 6.1 requires a z10+ and 5.4 does not? (If so, problem solved. Otherwise it looks I’ll be limited to 1. LPAR the z/VM 6.1 or 2. Run the production 5.4 under 6.1) Frank M. Ramaekers Jr. Systems Programmer MCP, MCP+I, MCSE RHCE American Income Life Insurance Co. Phone: (254)761-6649 1200 Wooded Acres Dr. Fax: (254)741-5777 Waco, Texas 76701 _ This message contains information which is privileged and confidential and is solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any review, disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error, please destroy it immediately and notify us at privacy...@ailife.com. -- Bruce Hayden z/VM and Linux on System z ATS IBM, Endicott, NY
Re: z10 and z/VM 6.1
On 10/14/10 1:13 PM, Marcy Cortes marcy.d.cor...@wellsfargo.com wrote: Tested what upgrade path? There's an upgrade path?! There's usually a description of installing the new system 2nd level in CP Planning and Admin. That's normally what I think of as the upgrade path. Also, other places in IBM tend to have codified the n-2 support level, and I'd suspect that the VM guys are also getting pressure to do that too. Mere speculation, but... We're on George's page. There's nothing compelling in 6.1 for us. And we have a lot of new function in 5.4 available by SPE which is way easier to do. I still have a good number of CMS users, so testing SPEs tends to be harder for me in that I have to duplicate the entire scenario. I often find that these days that the bugs are so subtle, it's easier to do the next release and just leave 5.4 alone unless it's something that really breaks CP so that you can't IPL. But YMMV.
Re: z10 and z/VM 6.1
We've tried it and 6.1 will run as a guest of 5.4 on a z10.. If you're swinging all your DASD over to the z10 - you could just bring up z/VM 5.4 -- build your 2nd level 6.1 guest - merge and migrate and bring up 6.1 1st level... Scott rohling On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Bruce Hayden bjhay...@gmail.com wrote: I haven't tried it, but 6.1 should run as a guest of 5.4 on a z10 (or later.) z/VM does not hide or downgrade the architecture of the machine from the guest (as much as possible), so the machine features needed by 6.1 should still be available to a guest of 5.4 on a z10. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Frank M. Ramaekers framaek...@ailife.com wrote: We are installing a z10 this weekend with z/VM 5.4. My question is what are my migration options for migration to z/VM 6.1? I don’t suppose that 6.1 can run under 5.4, since 6.1 requires a z10+ and 5.4 does not? (If so, problem solved. Otherwise it looks I’ll be limited to 1. LPAR the z/VM 6.1 or 2. Run the production 5.4 under 6.1) Frank M. Ramaekers Jr. Systems Programmer MCP, MCP+I, MCSE RHCE American Income Life Insurance Co. Phone: (254)761-6649 1200 Wooded Acres Dr. Fax: (254)741-5777 Waco, Texas 76701 _ This message contains information which is privileged and confidential and is solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any review, disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error, please destroy it immediately and notify us at privacy...@ailife.com. -- Bruce Hayden z/VM and Linux on System z ATS IBM, Endicott, NY
Re: z10 and z/VM 6.1
We've tried it and 6.1 will run as a guest of 5.4 on a z10. But will 6.1 run on a z9 or less? No, I've tried it. So for a seamless migration to new hardware, maybe it is not so bad to change one thing at a time and keep 5.4. True, there is less risk going from 6.1 to 6.2, than 5.4 to 6.2, but tomorrow never comes, what happens today determines what happens tomorrow. The way IBM has configured things for 6.1: shorter expiration date than 5.4, not much new functionality, no hardware downward compatibility below z10, 6.1 is, for all intents and purposes, a dead release. Hope Chuckie isn't listening. Scott Rohling scott.rohl...@gmail.com Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 10/14/2010 01:27 PM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Re: z10 and z/VM 6.1 We've tried it and 6.1 will run as a guest of 5.4 on a z10.. If you're swinging all your DASD over to the z10 - you could just bring up z/VM 5.4 -- build your 2nd level 6.1 guest - merge and migrate and bring up 6.1 1st level... Scott rohling On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Bruce Hayden bjhay...@gmail.com wrote: I haven't tried it, but 6.1 should run as a guest of 5.4 on a z10 (or later.) z/VM does not hide or downgrade the architecture of the machine from the guest (as much as possible), so the machine features needed by 6.1 should still be available to a guest of 5.4 on a z10. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Frank M. Ramaekers framaek...@ailife.com wrote: We are installing a z10 this weekend with z/VM 5.4. My question is what are my migration options for migration to z/VM 6.1? I don’t suppose that 6.1 can run under 5.4, since 6.1 requires a z10+ and 5.4 does not? (If so, problem solved. Otherwise it looks I’ll be limited to 1. LPAR the z/VM 6.1 or 2. Run the production 5.4 under 6.1) Frank M. Ramaekers Jr. Systems Programmer MCP, MCP+I, MCSE RHCE American Income Life Insurance Co. Phone: (254)761-6649 1200 Wooded Acres Dr. Fax: (254)741-5777 Waco, Texas 76701 _ This message contains information which is privileged and confidential and is solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any review, disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error, please destroy it immediately and notify us at privacy...@ailife.com. -- Bruce Hayden z/VM and Linux on System z ATS IBM, Endicott, NY
Re: z10 and z/VM 6.1
Well, if you had a new install on z10+ and not an upgrade, it would certainly be the thing to do. For those of use with 10+ systems, it's not worth a jump. There wasn't even an ESP run for 6.1 since there was so little function that didn't go into 5.4. Some customers did get the new function SPEs early though and tested them extensively. Marcy From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of George Henke/NYLIC Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 10:45 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: [IBMVM] z10 and z/VM 6.1 We've tried it and 6.1 will run as a guest of 5.4 on a z10. But will 6.1 run on a z9 or less? No, I've tried it. So for a seamless migration to new hardware, maybe it is not so bad to change one thing at a time and keep 5.4. True, there is less risk going from 6.1 to 6.2, than 5.4 to 6.2, but tomorrow never comes, what happens today determines what happens tomorrow. The way IBM has configured things for 6.1: • shorter expiration date than 5.4, • not much new functionality, • no hardware downward compatibility below z10, 6.1 is, for all intents and purposes, a dead release. Hope Chuckie isn't listening. Scott Rohling scott.rohl...@gmail.com Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 10/14/2010 01:27 PM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Re: z10 and z/VM 6.1 We've tried it and 6.1 will run as a guest of 5.4 on a z10.. If you're swinging all your DASD over to the z10 - you could just bring up z/VM 5.4 -- build your 2nd level 6.1 guest - merge and migrate and bring up 6.1 1st level... Scott rohling On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Bruce Hayden bjhay...@gmail.com wrote: I haven't tried it, but 6.1 should run as a guest of 5.4 on a z10 (or later.) z/VM does not hide or downgrade the architecture of the machine from the guest (as much as possible), so the machine features needed by 6.1 should still be available to a guest of 5.4 on a z10. On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Frank M. Ramaekers framaek...@ailife.com wrote: We are installing a z10 this weekend with z/VM 5.4. My question is what are my migration options for migration to z/VM 6.1? I don’t suppose that 6.1 can run under 5.4, since 6.1 requires a z10+ and 5.4 does not? (If so, problem solved. Otherwise it looks I’ll be limited to 1. LPAR the z/VM 6.1 or 2. Run the production 5.4 under 6.1) Frank M. Ramaekers Jr. Systems Programmer MCP, MCP+I, MCSE RHCE American Income Life Insurance Co. Phone: (254)761-6649 1200 Wooded Acres Dr. Fax: (254)741-5777 Waco, Texas 76701 _ This message contains information which is privileged and confidential and is solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any review, disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error, please destroy it immediately and notify us at privacy...@ailife.com. -- Bruce Hayden z/VM and Linux on System z ATS IBM, Endicott, NY
Re: z10 and z/VM 6.1
There's usually a description of installing the new system 2nd level in CP Planning and Admin. That's normally what I think of as the upgrade path. Could you perhaps have mean the z/VM Migration Guide (e.g. z/VM Migration Guide Version 5 Release 4.0 GC24-6103-07)? Those migration guides contain upgrade changes going many releases back (for -07 all the way back to VM/ESA 2.2!). The chapters are (not to be missed): Chapter 1. Introduction to Migration Chapter 2. System Changes Chapter 3. Changes to External Interfaces Chapter 4. Migration Tasks Appendix A. CMS Pipelines Message Cross-Reference [V2.3] Appendix B. Sample Utilities for Converting to Configuration Files At every version or release boundary, I'm always surprised again at how well IBM documents what has changed. Migration (mostly of the directly) is difficult and tedious enough, without this manual it would be a lot worse. Mike Walter Aon Hewitt The opinions expressed herein are mine alone, not my employer's. David Boyes dbo...@sinenomine.net Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 10/14/2010 12:26 PM Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU To IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU cc Subject Re: z10 and z/VM 6.1 On 10/14/10 1:13 PM, Marcy Cortes marcy.d.cor...@wellsfargo.com wrote: Tested what upgrade path? There's an upgrade path?! There's usually a description of installing the new system 2nd level in CP Planning and Admin. That's normally what I think of as the upgrade path. Also, other places in IBM tend to have codified the n-2 support level, and I'd suspect that the VM guys are also getting pressure to do that too. Mere speculation, but... We're on George's page. There's nothing compelling in 6.1 for us. And we have a lot of new function in 5.4 available by SPE which is way easier to do. I still have a good number of CMS users, so testing SPEs tends to be harder for me in that I have to duplicate the entire scenario. I often find that these days that the bugs are so subtle, it's easier to do the next release and just leave 5.4 alone unless it's something that really breaks CP so that you can't IPL. But YMMV. The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. E-mails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by e-mail.
