Re: [IceHorses] bitless video
On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:47:24 -0600, you wrote: That's too bad Mic. Did you manage to reload that video? No, not done anything about it yet. I might make a new one without The P Word so people are not able to change the focus so easily. Anyway, from my small experience of bitless bridles/sidepulls, I would like to see her use more leg. It's like she's so totally dependent on a bit that the horse really didn't understand what she wanted. I must admit I didn't watch the whole thing after I saw her waterskiing... I think the person riding is her mum and she was taking the video. I suspect she is actually a teenager. But still a horrid riding position, I was just aching to slide her butt forward and her legs back! ; ) Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
Re: [IceHorses] bitless video
On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:37:30 -0400, you wrote: And spare me from people who do these questionable things, and then brag about showing the horse who the boss is... Me too. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
Re: [IceHorses] bitless video
Mic Rushen [EMAIL PROTECTED] kirjoitti: Anybody like to comment on this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3ochXpflcsfeature=user Hmmm... With the first horse it looks like their riding skills equal their writing skills. I'm not wondering bitless doesn't really work (even with the first horse she is constantly having trouble getting the horse to understand what she wants) but I do slightly wonder that bridle with bit works any better because it doesn't actually look like these problems have much to do with bridle but with everything else she does and doesn't do (with her seat, weight, legs...). Krisse
[IceHorses] bitless video
Anybody like to comment on this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3ochXpflcsfeature=user Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
Re: [IceHorses] bitless video
Anybody like to comment on this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3ochXpflcsfeature=user I'm glad to see the openness to trying bitless riding. And the treats! I think what may be missing, in both horses (even tho the first one did well enough), is the basic relationship-type training. The attitude of still trying to control the horse, being the boss should be set aside, and work with the horse's mind, first. Get to the point of having the horse willingly join you mentally, and then give you his body to use. Then there does not have to be heavy contact or metal to make the horse do anything. Perhaps we should write up something that might help this gal. What was your input on this video? Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] bitless video
On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:56:31 -0700, you wrote: What was your input on this video? I just happened to see it. It does rather worry me that she says herself that the mare wasn't that good in the pen but she still chose to ride out rather than work further there, and then when it went wrong she dismisses the bitless bridle for all except plods. This girl made some of the most vituperative comments on the hall of shame video... Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
Re: [IceHorses] bitless video
2008/6/27 Mic Rushen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This girl made some of the most vituperative comments on the hall of shame video... That's too bad Mic. Did you manage to reload that video? Anyway, from my small experience of bitless bridles/sidepulls, I would like to see her use more leg. It's like she's so totally dependent on a bit that the horse really didn't understand what she wanted. I must admit I didn't watch the whole thing after I saw her waterskiing... Wanda -- Thoughts become things...
Re: [IceHorses] bitless video
Anybody like to comment on this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3ochXpflcsfeature=user First of all, that gal needs to have her stirrups taken away for a while - was she ever bracing on that poor horse and sitting on the cantle! Bracing on the stirrups makes for pressure on the back...and no bit or bitless rig can fix that. Second, I'm always wary when someone says something like an Icelandic has wild days. What does that even mean? Sure, my horses aren't always exactly the same day in and day out, no days that I'd call wild. I'd be asking WHY does he have wild days? Does he have recurring pain? Is he confused because of gaps in his training? And then the second horse isn't a calm horse. She wants to go fast and you need a firm hand to ride her. I think I'm picking up a trend here... And, if things didn't go so well for her with the second horse inside the arena, then why did she think it would be better outside the arena...? Duh. And spare me from people who do these questionable things, and then brag about showing the horse who the boss is... Karen Thomas, NC
[IceHorses] bitless bridle
What does everyone think of this bridle? http://www.nurturalhorse.com/Nurtural_Bridle_Demo.html Wanda -- Thoughts become things...
Re: [IceHorses] bitless bridle
--- Wanda Lauscher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does everyone think of this bridle? http://www.nurturalhorse.com/Nurtural_Bridle_Demo.html I have one that works in a simular manner than Andi hates. He hates the pressure from underneath. It is sitting unused in my tack room. Now both Andi and Whisper love their S Hackamores! I wrapped the noseband in colored coflex to soften it. Susan in NV read my blog to see why I ride my horse in pink: http://desertduty.blogspot.com/
Re: [IceHorses] bitless bridle
Kaaren Jordan's husband makes a wonderful sidepull and LTJ site has another very nice one. Here's what I use on Hunter: http://www.hought.com/end.s.hackamore.html The noseband is so soft that it doesn't need to be wrapped. There is that chain, soft hands suggested, although I can probably find photos of me really using more rein action than I'd suggest. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] bitless bridle
--- Nancy Sturm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's what I use on Hunter: http://www.hought.com/end.s.hackamore.html The noseband is so soft that it doesn't need to be wrapped. There is that chain, And el cheapo me looks at what I want, then I go about finding the cheapest! Plus, I already had my own bridles. So I bought the rope noseband S Hack from either Country Supply or Valley Vet (whichever was cheaper at the time!), bought a $1 roll of the colored coflex to match the horse (pink for Whisper of course, and the teal matches Andi's turquoise beta) wrapped the noseband, and took off the chain and replaced it with a beta curb. My curb is not really a curb, just helps hold it in place. Both of my horses love it! Of course, the Hought is very nice, but I am always, always looking to save a buck - that way I can get more stuff My total price - $55. Susan in NV read my blog to see why I ride my horse in pink: http://desertduty.blogspot.com/
Re: [IceHorses] bitless bridle
http://www.nurturalhorse.com/Nurtural_Bridle_Demo.html I'm not sure I see what's different about it from any other bitless bridle cross-over style. Can you see something different? The noseband is nice and fat though, and I'm glad she was clear that it shouldn't be on the soft part of the nose. I hope she rides with more finesse than she showed in that video. Her small turns were pretty abrupt looking to me! I also don't like the premise that where the nose goes, the horse follows. Yeah, sort of, maybe, but I am a believer of seat and leg aids first, regardless of whether you're using a bit or not. And, I'm not convinced that bits always cause pain, at least not the less-severe types. I think they CAN cause pain, depending on the horse's anatomy and past experiences, but there are also some not-so-humane hackamore and bitless options out there too. That said, I couldn't anything clearly enough in the video to say that might not be a perfectly acceptable alternative for some horses...? Have you seen one in person? Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] bitless bridle
On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Nancy Sturm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's what I use on Hunter: http://www.hought.com/end.s.hackamore.html Love the colors. How does it work? V
Re: [IceHorses] bitless bridle
2008/5/18 Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I hope she rides with more finesse than she showed in that video. Her small turns were pretty abrupt looking to me! Pretty rude to the horse... Have you seen one in person? No, just ran across it this morning. I couldn't see any difference between this one and the Dr. Cook that Gusti hated... Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] bitless bridle
Love the colors. How does it work? Hate to even tell you. The little short s curve shanks apply pressure on the chain. Hunter is a high energy Tennessee Walker that I have determined to work with rather than dumping him back on the market. His tongue is badly scarred by an old injury (perhaps from a bit) so I can't use the snaffle bits I love so much. Mostly, I use a soft following hand or even loose rein, but I'm not sure a sidepull would be enough headgear for him. He's actually so very much better at home that he's practically ready for the dude string. Maybe I should try the sidepull. We often ride with my friend who has the world's best Appaloosa, good old Prizey. He's been a very calming influence for Hunter, who has just about decided that the world is not a scarey place after all. A rattlesnake rattled tight beside his feet yesterday and all he did is look down quickly and sort of curve his body away from my leg on that side. I assume I might have applied some reflexive leg pressure. I just can't learn to love rattlesnakes. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] bitless bridle
--- Nancy Sturm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mostly, I use a soft following hand or even loose rein, Oh yes, if you have heavy hands or balance off your hands, your horse will NOT be happy in the S Hack. But don't worry, if this is the case - your horse will tell you! Susan in NV read my blog to see why I ride my horse in pink: http://desertduty.blogspot.com/
[IceHorses] Bitless, Barefoot
Here are some sites in Europe for bitless and barefoot: http://www.bitloos.be/ http://www.equihof.be/ Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Bitless Driving Video
http://www.nurturalhorse.com/Nurtural_Driving.html Judy
[IceHorses] Bitless
From Pat on GaitedHorse about bitless: I had bit issues with my current horse, Dakota, not gaited. I tried a couple of bits, but we do not have the vast array of bit types to try here in Mexico. Everyone said the curb bit used was not severe, but I just felt reluctance in movement and after about an hour, headtossing. I had teeth floated and wolf teeth pulled. Always felt I was doing something wrong. Finally sent him to a trainer, one who is soft. Even he had some of the same problems. The horse did not want to work and tried to jump out of the ring. At that time, trainer was using a snaffle. I still felt something was wrong. One day a very reputable vet was there for another horse and I asked him to check mine over. Dakota had just come back from a ride in the hills with the trainer's son. That's when we discovered a very severe cut on the tongue from the snaffle and bad handling from the kid. He had to be stitched. The vet said that he had Trigeminal Neuralgia and said the horse was dangerous and that I should look for another horse. Said it was incurable. I, formerly a chiropractor, knew what that was, but didn't buy into the diagnosis, because I could touch him all over the head without issue. I went home and after crying my eyes out, hit the internet and typed in trigeminal neuralgia in horses. The first thing that came up pertained exactly to this issue and was a world of information. Everything that was discussed was what had transpired with Dakota. It explained how all the different bit types worked. I spent hours on this site. The upshot of all this is I ended up ordering a bitless bridle. Since then, my horse has done just fine and I know that his mouth will never be hurt again. My new gaited horse has been using a Tom Thumb bit, but when he finally gets here and we have spent time together and adjust to one another, I may even consider going bitless with him as well. Pat
[IceHorses] bitless, hackamores, etc
Would someone please give me a quick lesson in the difference between a sidepull, a hackamore, a bosal and a bitless bridle (like a Dr Cook) and where they put pressure. I was riding Mura in a sidepull this weekend and some people we ran into on the trail were amazed that she behaves so well - this was a group that had never seen a horse ridden without a bit so that tells you where we're starting from. Anyway they were asking me a lot of questions and I did my best but realized I was woefully inadequate in my knowledge of the difference of all of them. At least I got across the point that most horses will do quite well without a bit if they are trained well. -- Laree
RE: [IceHorses] bitless, hackamores, etc
Would someone please give me a quick lesson in the difference between a sidepull, a hackamore, a bosal and a bitless bridle (like a Dr Cook) and where they put pressure. I was riding Mura in a sidepull this weekend and some people we ran into on the trail were amazed that she behaves so well - this was a group that had never seen a horse ridden without a bit so that tells you where we're starting from. Laree I'm so glad Mura did us proud! The sidepull-I have seen them made from soft woven rope, biothane or leather, some have flat nosebands (gentle), others have rolled leather nosebands (maybe a bit more control) and some have stiff rope nosebands (more severe)-these work by direct pull on the rings on each side of the noseband. Very easy for the horse to understand. I think the best ones have jowl straps that go in front of the big lower jaw (mandible) bone instead of a throatlatch. These keep the side pieces out of a horse's eye. Kaarenjordan.com (leather) and Moss Rock Endurance(beta) have nice ones. The bitless bridle has a strap with rings on each end that comes from the poll, crosses under the jaw and goes through other rings on the side of the noseband, the reins are attached to the rings on each end. If you pull both reins, you'll get poll pressure, some pressure under the jaw and nose pressure. Some people complain that the reins don't provide a quick enough release. Some gaited horses with head nods are bothered by the rings that the reins attach to. (Moss Rock has a similar bridle with less poll pressure and the poll strap becomes the reins, so no flapping rings). Hackamores can be different things to different people: Parelli-type rope hackamore (a rope halter with a rein and lead attached just above the knot under the chin and fashioned from a single, long piece of rope). Western hackamore from the Spanish jaquima-this consists of a headstall, the bosal (a braided rawhide noseband shaped like a teardrop with a weighty rawhide knot at the bottom), and the mecate (reins lead attached with a special way of wrapping just above the rawhide knot. This is most often used in the beginning of a several step process to train the bridle horse. Don't have any experience with these but they seem to ask the horse to move away from pressure (the rawhide noseband can be rough and when the reins are pulled back the narrower underside of the bosal contacts areas under the chin, the knot at the bottom provides a quick release when the reins are released) The Paso Fino folks have a type of hackamore too, but I'm not familiar with that one. Mechanical hackamores have assorted nosebands from leather to bicycle chain! and long shanks that act with a curb chain or strap at the chin and provide chin and poll pressure (even though these are bitless, they are pretty severe). Cherie
Re: [IceHorses] Bitless Bridle
As far as Europeans being open to bitless in general Linda started taking sidepulls to Germany in the 70's when she took a Western trail mare to one of the first Equitana's and did a demo of bridleless riding which astonished people. Here's a page with some pictures (Icelandics, too) of a gal that practices Horses in Harmony (her version of PNH): http://www.horseinharmony.dk/kursister.htm Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Bitless Bridle
Hi Judy, While I'm not a fan of the Bitless Bridle using the cross-over design because of the vice-like grip it can have on the horse, and not being able to ask for a tip of the head without also affecting the poll, I am a fan of bitless riding (i.e. sidepull) and am glad to see that bitless in general is gaining stride in Europe: I would agree with you in generall about the bitless bridles - especially because some of them are fastened so tightly around the nose and the cross over pieces don't release well. As far as Europeans being open to bitless in general Linda started taking sidepulls to Germany in the 70's when she took a Western trail mare to one of the first Equitana's and did a demo of bridleless riding which astonished people. Since then many people have been using Lindell the sidepull various that was named for Linda. Also the first cross over bitless bridle that I saw was in Germany at least 20 years ago, long before I ever saw them here. He gave me two to try but I was not totally convinced because of the slow release on the cross over. The same man developed a leather bit that could be used without a headstall. Quite fine unless a horse chews through it : )) Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
