Re: [IceHorses] Horse vs Pony
I'm an easy keeper too...and it appears my canon's are gaining more substance every year. Ah - good observation. The endurance folks used to look for horses with 8 canons. I think I'm a little past that. Maybe I could get a job in the Budweiser team. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Horse vs Pony
In general use, pony is not a very precise term. In the western US vernacular a pony can be any equine under about 14.2 high, or a mustang (Indian pony), or a race horse (go bet on the ponies). And then there are polo ponies (http://www.sportpolo.com/Polo_Pony/default.htm), a TB x QH mix. No, but almost everyone accepts that chunky, hairy 12.2-14H equines ARE ponies, so pretending they aren't just seems ridiculous. Anyway, my disbelief had more to do with the notion that Icelandics might somehow be more closely related to Arabs than to ponies. I've been around Arabs, including an awfully nice one we've had for almost 20 years, and as Nancy said, they are about as distintively different breeds as one can imagine. And it really never fails to surprise me that some folks are so prone to bristle over the label applied to the beasts as opposed to how the beings are treated. Mic showed the horses being abused at competition... but the detractors chose to be offended by the p-word. THAT is amazing. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Horse vs Pony
the organizations that have the most to do with defining the differences are ones that classify horse and pony separately for showing purposes, usually for jumping (but sometimes, as in dressage, for age of rider allowed). they uniformly use the 14.2 height marker, and according to them, both the animals you describe are ponies. I think this has to do with what our focus has been. When we were showing pony hunters over fences, height was very important. In that venue, the 14.3 h Hunter, who is registered as a TWH, is one inch off from being a pony. So (semantics aside) I think we have animals who are ponies by genetics and animals who are ponies by the rule book. In the pony hunter classes, the divisions were definitely height based and it wouldn't matter if I had a DNA report in my right hand, if my pony went over 14.2, he couldn't have competed. Our trainer was a slim young woman who later married our grandson. She was certainly light enough to ride a 12.2 h pony. She actually weighed less than 13 year old Gabe who was showing the ponies, but in her last few years of pony riding, people would sometimes approach her and suggest that she might have outgrown her pony. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Horse vs Pony
equines can be expected to be interbred as often as humans, and i suspect the genetic groupings will become as meaningless as human races. Good point, Vicka. I am certainly one of those interbred humans, by appearance a white woman, with a Jamaican slave as an ancestor. I have also suspected that I might be part pony because of being such an easy keeper, lots of substance and comparatively shorter legs. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Horse vs Pony
On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 04:35:46PM -0800, Nancy Sturm wrote: I am certainly one of those interbred humans, by appearance a white woman, with a Jamaican slave as an ancestor. I have also suspected that I might be part pony because of being such an easy keeper, lots of substance and comparatively shorter legs. hee, me too! my unruly mane is clearly either african or shetland in descent ;) --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Horse vs Pony
On 25/01/2008, Nancy Sturm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am certainly one of those interbred humans, by appearance a white woman, with a Jamaican slave as an ancestor. I have also suspected that I might be part pony because of being such an easy keeper, lots of substance and comparatively shorter legs. I'm an easy keeper too...and it appears my canon's are gaining more substance every year. Wanda
RE: [IceHorses] Horse vs Pony
I remember that we (the rocky mountain horse breeders) were LIVID because there was a Horse Encyclopedia that was redone/printed about 12 years ago and the RMH was listed as a PONY! We all petitioned the publisher and author to get it don to no avail. According to breed description, the horse's height is supposed to START at 14.2h! FRUSTRATING! Mary Dudley, LVT Just Dream It Fandango Ranch
Re: [IceHorses] Horse vs Pony
Also, no one who owns Icelandics calls them ponies Huginn is a pony. They are Ice Ponies! Raven Lucy Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze http://www.myspace.com/iceponygoddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] Horse vs Pony
On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 11:48:48AM -0800, Nancy Sturm wrote: So (semantics aside) I think we have animals who are ponies by genetics and i'm skeptical, honestly, about the ponies by genetics idea. this has worked moderately well in the past, when groups were genetically isolate (and can be presumed to continue to work in iceland, which has a closed population). in the rest of the world, though, equines can be expected to be interbred as often as humans, and i suspect the genetic groupings will become as meaningless as human races. (as an example, the boston glob recently did dna-family-tree analysis on a group of local celebrities. a black man who plays on one of our sports teams turns out to be of the finnish branch, which apparently quite bemused him, and he said in his interview he now wanted to visit there) i rode, showed, and pinned on a 12.2 pony (over fences) the summer i was 38, iirc...but i'm short and fairly slight myself, and i don't remember anyone saying anything untoward in my hearing :) (incidentally said pony was a delicate little thing, with a thin mane, long legs and neck, and not much winter coat) --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Horse vs Pony
On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 09:16:02AM -0800, Judy Ryder wrote: But my 14.1 Icelandic will never be a horse, and my 14 hand Tennessee Walker will never be a pony. There are different characteristics that define pony and horse, not simply height or colloquial terms. the organizations that have the most to do with defining the differences are ones that classify horse and pony separately for showing purposes, usually for jumping (but sometimes, as in dressage, for age of rider allowed). they uniformly use the 14.2 height marker, and according to them, both the animals you describe are ponies. you may disagree. personally i think semantic arguments are inherently pretty stupid. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Horse vs Pony
On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:35:53 -0800, you wrote: pony is not a very precise term. In the western US vernacular a pony can be any equine under about 14.2 high, Same in Europe. A pony is any equine under 14.2hh. So - what, something like 90%? of Icelandics are ponies? What is SOO wrong with ponies? Is it because people often spoil ponies so they bite and kick etc? (and of course that never happens with horses) Is it because ponies are only suitable for kids? (tell that to the New Forest, Exmoor, Fell, Dale and Highland breeders in the UK alone! - not to mention Haflingers, Fjords etc etc) *head desk* Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Horse vs Pony
sized horse breeds. Also, no one who owns Icelandics calls them ponies so I think we can safely go and edit that one. This came across another Icelandic list. Is this true? We refer to ours as ponies all the time. They're 13.3 and 13 h, for heaven's sake. I think (if I remember correctly) some of the other Wikipedia Icelandic info was very skewed. Nancy, please let them know of the studies that have been done linking Icelandics to other northern European pony breeds via mtDNA: http://www.projects.ex.ac.uk/equinet/origins http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=125071 http://www.sorraia.org/folheto.htm Just do a search on: icelandic horse study mtDNA Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Horse vs Pony
In a message dated 1/25/2008 8:32:03 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) Pony, my boy is a pony he might be an Icelandic horse but he is my ponypet. Ponylove what ever you want to call him he likes it. Next to me he is big anyway, I could see if I was big and tall maybe then it would bother me if people called him a pony. I was asked if I was riding a large shetland one day. Hehehe. Now that he is clipped he sets a whole new style. They say what kind of horse is this? Around here he is not very well known. The neighbors always ask me what they are. Now that I have four out there it is a pony show. I love having him and he is in my heart like my QH mare was fourty years ago. Kisses on the nose and eyes and follows me around. Gets into things like a pony does. Checks out the barn for something open, he is everywhere. Sylvia **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 48)
Re: [IceHorses] Horse vs Pony
*shrug* i've ridden an arabian pony too. 13.3, stocky, goey, smart as heck Heck...I rode QH ponies...while growing up. I also rode a TWH pony mare...13.3, standing in her tippy toes! Raven Lucy Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze http://www.myspace.com/iceponygoddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] Horse vs Pony
On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 09:09:32AM -0600, Raven wrote: Also, no one who owns Icelandics calls them ponies Huginn is a pony. They are Ice Ponies! i call stjarni a ponykins. i dare anyone to argue with me ;) --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Horse vs Pony
On Jan 25, 2008, at 7:31 AM, Karen Thomas wrote: Wikipedia can be changed and it looks like changes need to be made. I believe that DNA has linked Icelandics to other breeds like Arabs, and full sized horse breeds. Also, no one who owns Icelandics calls them ponies so I think we can safely go and edit that one. Absolute twaddle. DNA proves links to Exmoor ponies, the so-called Celtic Horse (ancestor of most northern pony breeds), the Shetland pony, the Dole horse and a few other N. European breed. Arabs? No way. Sometimes I just shake my head and wonder if some of these folks have ever seen a non-Icelandic horse or pony. Amazing. I think it was Laree who said not so long ago something about, if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck and looks like a duck... In general use, pony is not a very precise term. In the western US vernacular a pony can be any equine under about 14.2 high, or a mustang (Indian pony), or a race horse (go bet on the ponies). And then there are polo ponies (http://www.sportpolo.com/Polo_Pony/default.htm), a TB x QH mix. Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/ http://www.dslextreme.com/~napha/JoyOfRiding/index.htm
Re: [IceHorses] Horse vs Pony
On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 11:48:48 -0800, you wrote: Our trainer was a slim young woman who later married our grandson. She was certainly light enough to ride a 12.2 h pony. She actually weighed less than 13 year old Gabe Cow. ; ) Mic (NEVER been light enough to ride a 12.2, even at 13) Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Horse or Pony
She is crazier than an outhouse rat Oh...we have a similar version up herebut it's a bit nastier :) Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Horse or Pony
it is a southern phrase i think. Like southern things such as: here's my favorite well, butter my buns and call them biscuits! HAHA! raven
Re: [IceHorses] Horse or Pony now Southern Sayins'
Raven wrote: it is a southern phrase i think. Like southern things such as: here's my favorite well, butter my buns and call them biscuits! HAHA! raven I love happier than a tick on a fat dog and busier than a 3-legged cat in a litterbox! Trish
Re: [IceHorses] Horse or Pony
You don't have anything to say about horses though, do you? Just about words... Are there semantics lists out there that you might join for these discussions? 0. *your* message isn't about horses. it's about me, and is neither informed nor polite. Vicka don't let it bother you, it's just par for the course. It would appear some are uncomfortable having a polite discussion with an intelligent person who may question or suggest an alternative thought process while on a path to gain knowledge so they resort to personal attacks in an effort to silence them. It is really sad that some see their opinion as being the ONLY acceptable opinion and can't accpet any discussion of a differing opinon without resorting to rude and personal attacks. I've enjoyed your thoughts on semantics it's been educational for me, someone who is barely able to get my thoughts put down in words! On the pony vs. horse thing, as I've said before I really don't care what people want to call them. I prefer to call them horse, as pony for most brings an image of a small, lightly built equine not capable of carrying an adult, suitable only for a child or a cart. Cheryl ToltallyICE at Sand Creek Icelandic Horse Farm Icelandic Horses and Icelandic Sheepdogs email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.toltallyice.com Idaho
Re: [IceHorses] Horse or Pony
On Sun, Jan 14, 2007 at 09:21:33AM -0700, ToltallyICE wrote: Vicka don't let it bother you, it's just par for the course. thanks, cheryl. it doesn't bother me enough to stop me, that's for sure :) I've enjoyed your thoughts on semantics it's been educational for me, someone who is barely able to get my thoughts put down in words! thanks! language is my primary passion, after ponies, and the one i've put most of my education and professional life into. i'm very glad to hear it's been useful to you. On the pony vs. horse thing, as I've said before I really don't care what people want to call them. I prefer to call them horse, as pony for most brings an image of a small, lightly built equine not capable of carrying an adult, suitable only for a child or a cart. *nod* as i've probably said a few times by now, i think that it might be that image of pony that keeps many people from wanting to use it for iceys, who are not at all constrained to children and carts. (that said, i call stjarni a ponykins, but that's just me embarrassing my own self -- he's far too dignified to mind ;) --vicka
