Re: [IceHorses] help with Icies wanted/false heat
On 12/5/07 3:31 AM, Mic Rushen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How long were they with him for? Or were they covered in hand? If so, how many times over how many days? And does he have lots of other foals this year? (if not I would worry about his fertility...) Sorry you won't be having any next Srping, though, that's a real shame. Mic Me too, and it is all my fault, not Melnir's. I have since heard that when mares first come in contact with a stallion (if they are not normally near a stallion), they tend to act as if they were in heat. My experience for all these years until I sold my stallions was that mares would stand for breeding only if close to ovulation; but that was when there were stallions here. And before and after that there would be just a lot of squealing etc. My mares had not seen or been near a stallion since Melnir left here over three years ago. So I suppose they were making the best of the situation and Melnir did not quarrel. If I had followed Karen's advice to leave Melnir here for another few weeks, I am certain the results would have been much better. It's to bad that at this age I still have to learn from bad experiences. Anneliese
Re: [IceHorses] help with Icies wanted/false heat
On 12/5/07 3:34 AM, Mic Rushen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 22:19:25 -0500, you wrote: If you need a mare to be in season at a specific time it's worth using something like Regumate to induce ovulation. We're lucky with our lot - they get to run with the boys for 3 or 4 months usually. Mic Conception with the first induced heat is not very good; better with the second one after synchronization. Anneliese
Re: [IceHorses] help with Icies wanted/false heat
I know Regumate seems to work, but you know, I also alize that it encourages marginally fertile mares to become pregnant. That can be a good thing I suppose, but I also think the fertility of this breed IS higher than with many (maybe most?) breeds. I'd hate to see us doing anything to inadvertently encourage the proliferation of less-fertile horses. I know that Melnir's fertility was good, and I know that Anneliese's mares have shown great conception rates, so I guess Regumate wouldn't have been out-of-line in this situation. Karen Thomas, NC To be certain of conception within the 5 days, the mares would have had to synchronized on the heat cycle prior to the one we were aiming for. And I don't think we planned early enough for that. Now let's not dwell on this. Lesson learned, do better next time! Anneliese
RE: [IceHorses] help with Icies wanted/false heat
Now let's not dwell on this. Lesson learned, do better next time! Well, at least Melnir went out of business with a bang...oops, poor choice of words. ;) Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.15/1173 - Release Date: 12/5/2007 9:29 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] help with Icies wanted/false heat
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 22:19:25 -0500, you wrote: To complete the details of the story, Melnir was only there for five days, Ah, that's most likely the problem, then. I find some of my mares will stand happily for shagging (even by geldings!) even when not in season at all - they just like it If you need a mare to be in season at a specific time it's worth using something like Regumate to induce ovulation. We're lucky with our lot - they get to run with the boys for 3 or 4 months usually. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] help with Icies wanted/false heat
On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 21:13:21 -0500, you wrote: I just found out that none of my five mares, who stood for Melnir as if in heat, is pregnant. How long were they with him for? Or were they covered in hand? If so, how many times over how many days? And does he have lots of other foals this year? (if not I would worry about his fertility...) Sorry you won't be having any next Srping, though, that's a real shame. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
RE: [IceHorses] help with Icies wanted/false heat
How long were they with him for? Or were they covered in hand? If so, how many times over how many days? And does he have lots of other foals this year? (if not I would worry about his fertility...) There's no question that his fertility is VERY low, and his libido is totally shot now - but of course, he was gelded about six weeks after he was at Unicorn Valley, so I guess that is to be expected. :) Seriously, I hope everyone realizes that I have no reason not to be 100% forthcoming about what has happened - no need for any macho posturing or bragging about his fertility at this point. I'm telling all this just because I know some people won't give out as many details as I will... He pasture bred in the past and has two foals coming this spring. He was with Anneliese's mares for only five days, in the pasture, so I knew that wasn't a sure thing, and I'm sure Anneliese did too. In fact, I had initially planned to leave him with her for about three weeks, but since five stood for him to breed, and her foaling paddock was torn up with the construction of her new house, she asked me to go ahead take him home - she was assuming of course that at least a couple of the mares would be pregnant. She really wasn't anxious to breed this past spring with the home construction going on, but she knew I was going to geld him and she wanted to breed to him before I did. Bjola didn't get pregnant here this past spring, but she had some odd cyst/tumor thingy that showed up on her post-breeding ultrasound, so the fertility issue was hers, not his. Of course, I gelded him before I had her ultrasound, and she was only with him in the pasture for about three weeks. Her follow-up ultrasound about 2-3 months later showed the cyst thing had resolved on its own. But, I knew I was going to geld him, so I hadn't waited for her ultrasound. I wanted to be sure I had his gelding done before the heat of summer, and the worst of bug season here. Other than this incident with Anneliese, he never missed impregnating a mare that he stayed with - but he was always with the ones he bred for a while. He always pasture bred, with one exception. We had one mare come here to be bred twice, and we did what might be considered a modified pasture breeding. We turned them out together to breed, but watched, and separated them after they had bred, and had had a period of afterglow, maybe leaving them together to cuddle for 30-60 minutes each time. We did that for 5-6 consecutive days both times they brought her, with him only breeding her once a day. She got pregnant after each time, only one heat cycle. I think that's the best way, if you are only looking for a high conception rate, but I love the tranquility of watching a stallion with a few mares in a more natural, pasture breeding/family living arrangement. They really do show a lot of affection for each other...as well as having the expected marital squabbles. :) Sorry you won't be having any next Srping, though, that's a real shame. It's especially sad since he's gelded and those were limited edition foals. I feel SO bad for Anneliese. Melnir was born at her farm, and I know she loves him. Cary doesn't help my feeling of guilt. He keeps telling me that I gelded the wrong stallion. Melnir's babies are just great. I hesitated and didn't breed him the first two years I had him, to be absolutely sure he was EXACTLY what I wanted in a breeding horse. After two years, though, I was sure. I was partly hesitant to breed him because he's small - not terribly short, and I think he's very correct in his conformation, but he's not a tank. The mares I bred to him have been pretty stocky, but several are only 13H or so. At 18 months, Isak is our shortest colt, at about 12.2H, but Tifa, Kola and Landi are already at least 13H. I wouldn't be surprised if Landi is as tall as Melnir (13.1) already, and considering that Sina is barely 13H, that surprises me. I don't think I needed to worry about Melnir's size as a factor in breeding him. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.14/1171 - Release Date: 12/4/2007 7:31 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change
RE: [IceHorses] help with Icies wanted/false heat
Ah, that's most likely the problem, then. I find some of my mares will stand happily for shagging (even by geldings!) even when not in season at all - they just like it In retrospect, I now wonder if Anneliese never saw the false heat before, because in years past, she's always had a stallion (or two, or more) on her farm. It's been four years (I think?) since she's had one there, so maybe the mares were more...uh, starved for attention this time around than she's seen in the past. Melnir was, I'm sure, a hot commodity, for those five days! If you need a mare to be in season at a specific time it's worth using something like Regumate to induce ovulation. We're lucky with our lot - they get to run with the boys for 3 or 4 months usually. I know Regumate seems to work, but you know, I also realize that it encourages marginally fertile mares to become pregnant. That can be a good thing I suppose, but I also think the fertility of this breed IS higher than with many (maybe most?) breeds. I'd hate to see us doing anything to inadvertently encourage the proliferation of less-fertile horses. I know that Melnir's fertility was good, and I know that Anneliese's mares have shown great conception rates, so I guess Regumate wouldn't have been out-of-line in this situation. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.14/1171 - Release Date: 12/4/2007 7:31 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] help with Icies wanted
On 12/4/07 12:20 PM, Mic Rushen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From a friend who lives in the English Lake District (actually the inventor of the Trapezius saddle) : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:55:51 - Hi All, Does anyone know of a person wishing to work with Icies from mid January to at least the end of March/middle of April?? We could do with some help here. The chores would be the usual picking up loads of poo at regular intervals but there would also be the opportunity to ride and help with the development of the horses, young and not so young. We would provide comfortable accom with plenty of good food and regular riding lessons. Please pass this on wherever you think might be able to help. Many thanks - Janice www.icelandichorses.co.uk Mic (Michelle) Rushen Hey Mic: I had a mail from a German girl (25) who want to work with Icelandics. She is currently in Iceland. I forwarded your request to her. I don't know anything about her, so do ask questions. Her name is Connie Lober, e-mail address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hope this helps. I too will need help next year, just not right now. Best regards, Anneliese
[IceHorses] help with Icies wanted
From a friend who lives in the English Lake District (actually the inventor of the Trapezius saddle) : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:55:51 - Hi All, Does anyone know of a person wishing to work with Icies from mid January to at least the end of March/middle of April?? We could do with some help here. The chores would be the usual picking up loads of poo at regular intervals but there would also be the opportunity to ride and help with the development of the horses, young and not so young. We would provide comfortable accom with plenty of good food and regular riding lessons. Please pass this on wherever you think might be able to help. Many thanks - Janice www.icelandichorses.co.uk Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] help with Icies wanted/false heat
Actually, Mic: There is a German girl (about 25) who just contacted me. I'll send you her e-mail address tomorrow; I am too pooped right now. I just found out that none of my five mares, who stood for Melnir as if in heat, is pregnant. Karen called it false heat. I have never had any experience with that. With all the breeding I have done, this concept is entirely new to me. A standing heat (which is what the mares seemed to show) to me meant close to ovulation. Well we learn something new every day. I would appreciate input from anyone with experience with this. This is a hard learning experience. I was expecting up to five foals and there will be none. Anneliese On 12/4/07 12:20 PM, Mic Rushen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From a friend who lives in the English Lake District (actually the inventor of the Trapezius saddle) : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 16:55:51 - Hi All, Does anyone know of a person wishing to work with Icies from mid January to at least the end of March/middle of April?? We could do with some help here. The chores would be the usual picking up loads of poo at regular intervals but there would also be the opportunity to ride and help with the development of the horses, young and not so young. We would provide comfortable accom with plenty of good food and regular riding lessons. Please pass this on wherever you think might be able to help. Many thanks - Janice www.icelandichorses.co.uk Mic (Michelle) Rushen -- - Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk -- - Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links -- Anneliese Virro UNICORN VALLEY ICELANDICS 1800 Carter School Road Stanford, Kentucky 40484 606-346-4963 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [IceHorses] help with Icies wanted/false heat
I just found out that none of my five mares, who stood for Melnir as if in heat, is pregnant. Karen called it false heat. I have never had any experience with that. With all the breeding I have done, this concept is entirely new to me. A standing heat (which is what the mares seemed to show) to me meant close to ovulation. I'm really sorry that Anneliese won't be having any little Melnirs. I was looking forward to some little (tow-headed?) babies cavorting in the paradise of Unicorn Valley... To complete the details of the story, Melnir was only there for five days, and most any vet will tell you that breeding five mares in five days is not ideal. It doesn't give much time for the sperm count to build back up between breedings. (Not that I have to worry about protecting his reputation or anything - he's a great gelding, so his reputation isn't exactly on the line here! :) ) Most vets will advise not to breed a stallion more than once a day, maybe twice. But, when they pasture breed, they breed much more often than that. I'm sure some get pregnant right off the bat anyway, but by restricting the contact, you should be able increase the odds of immediate conception. I know that 2-3 of my mares seemed to cycle immediately when I put them in with him the first year, but at least two were back standing for him a week or two later. Ultrasounds showed that the two got pregnant on the later heat. Since normal heat cycles are 21 days apart. I know the dates that Christine told me that Bjola, Brunka and Saga stood for their stallions before they came to live with us, but the ultrasounds I had done immediately upon their arrival showed they didn't conceive then, but instead all conceived right before they left Canada for NC. Anyway, I sure didn't breed that many mares, so I don't have as much experience as some others - but I have ultrasounded all my mares within 15-21 days of breeding, so I have a pretty good idea of when my pregnant mares did conceive and when they didn't. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1169 - Release Date: 12/3/2007 10:56 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
