Re: [IceHorses] Differences -- Janice
I'm staying out of this, having experienced only the one TWH, but here's Hunter's grandsire: http://www.walkerswest.com/Champs/PridesGenerator.htm Oregon endurance types who ride TWH's like ranch-bred horses from Canada amd Montana for trail horses and suggest staying away from the show-bred horses. Hunter is not spooky at all, but has enough energy for several horses his size. He's just sort of a goofy horse who keeps me swinging between annoyance and appreciation. I drive up the road a mile at 5:00 am to give him a supplemental morning feed. This morning he was just zooming around his pen in the dark, eyes wide. He'll be out at pasture when I go back to ride him later - pray he has settled down. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Differences -- Janice
there are breed generalities, but just in my relatively tiny herd each horse, even of the same breeds, are so incredibly different one to the other. In my large rides tho I have developed generalizations over the years, but any time I mention them on these lists so many come swarming out with "but i had one of those and it was the calmest horse on earth!" but generally, paso finos and peruvians to me ACT so hot it would make me nervous personally to ride one. The ones I have seen that were well trained were hot, squirrelly, exactly like arabians I think! I personally believe, and have seen, and it has been my experience, that "modern" bloodline walking horses are not good trail horses, they are too hot and goey for me. Old foundation walking horses are the best. Some people think by old I mean ebony masterpiece but I mean old OLD like handshaker, mack K, Dement, mcCurdy. Gosh I only have two icelandics and they are as different as nite from day, but one isnt under saddle and it has also been my experience that you NEVER know from the ground how a horse is gonna turn out under saddle he can be a lazy potatoe on the ground and a hot wire under saddle... janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Differences -- Janice
>>> Differences<<< Lets see, I have owned 2 walkers, 2 fox trotters, and a paso fino. 2 Walkers- one had a fabulous gait but kinda hot sometimes and was way to big, the other has a terrible hard pace and is also somewhat spooky ( I still have him and love him but hard to ride even at the walk. 2 foxtrotters- both were very spooky and bad temperments.Did not mesh with personalities of either of them. Both had good smooth gaits 1-Paso fino- fabulous, wonderful smooth gait but bad temperment and HOT! Gave them all at least a year at my home but after a yr that new home deal depressed etc is over. Still jumpy in my barn. Found great homes that worked for them. 2 Icelandics- Love the gait, personality, size everything!!!
RE: [IceHorses] Differences -- Janice
If you like gaited, TWH are more gaited, in my opinion, than Icelandics. I think "more gaited" probably needs some clarification. If you mean that there are fewer three-gaited TWH than you'd find in Icelandic's, I'd totally agree. I can't even think of a three-gaited TWH. But nothing is worse to me than a hard-pacer, and I've known more hard-pacing TWH than in any breed I can think of. I guess pace is a "gait", but what a miserable one! As far as "nicely gaited" horses, I'd say there are at least as many Icelandic's as TWH. I suspect we could be looking at regional differences though - I have not been around too terribly many show-trained Icelandics, and I've been disappointed in the few I've met...meaning I've seen too many that I think are marginally gaited at best, but called "four-gaited." And of course, my definition of "nicely gaited" may not be the same as the next person's. :) I know I'd take a three gaited (w/t/c) horse over a hard pacer any day, but hopefully we aren't breeding for either extreme. If you want to do dressage, between the two breeds, the TWH would be the more appropriate choice. Oh, but not if the TWH is pacey! I don't care one whit about headset for any level of dressage that I'd do - but I do need a decent trot and canter. Truth is, if you want to do any competitive dressage, or anything above a little backyard dressage, you're better off with a more suitable (three-gaited) breed - most of the time, neither Icelandic's nor TWH are really ideal. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.8/993 - Release Date: 9/6/2007 3:18 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Differences -- Janice
Walkers and Icelandics -- it would probably be > difficult to choose which you prefer so I'll ask what are the > differences, other than height? You can get a *general* idea of differences between breeds, but always look at the individual horse as you may find the perfect horse by doing so. If you like short, Icelandics have it, altho we had a 14 hand TWH that was superb! If you like calm, not all, but most Icelandics have it, altho some TWHs can be just as calm as Icelandics. If you like gaited, TWH are more gaited, in my opinion, than Icelandics. I think there are more disciplines that TWHs can participate in, than Icelandics. If you want to do dressage, between the two breeds, the TWH would be the more appropriate choice. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Differences -- Janice
You probably won't find a three-gaited (w/t/c) TWH > though, > certainly nt many, while there are Icelandic's who are described as > "four-gaited" that I don't consider to have much natural gait - but > they can > be excellent horses too, if you aren't gait-obsessed. Gaits are > gaits, > whatever the breed, so just look at the individual horse. Every > breed seems > to have some with good gaits, some with bad, and some so-so. Well said. Unfortunatly here on our island a TWH breeder brought in a TWH Stallion years back that was not naturally gaited...and so we have a stock of TWH here that I would not even consider purchasing or helping someone to purchase if they wanted a naturally gaited horsethey look like QH, big with a lot of musclesPlus the fact they got trained by trainers who actually discourage gait, so they just do not gait. Its weird I never saw a TWH on the mainland that did not gait. We have had people that said they had ridden a gaited horse before and did not think it was any better, smoother or different, they had ridden one of those. So we let them ride one of our little guys and Wallah! Bingo! They got it immediatley. I have spent many many miles on the back of a TWH, and I love them. They are Sallys and mine 2nd favorite breed, hands down. The Icelandics are #1 in our heart, and one of the reasons for that is basically what Karen said earlier...more of them have the "I ain't afraid of nothing" attitude that I adore. I find TWH to be very smooth, surefooted and intelligentWe will have a pair of Walkers one day, we like the old style. Skye Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
Re: [IceHorses] Differences -- Janice
On 9/7/07, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So most of the difference is in temperament? How about comparing > Icelandics with Pasos and other gaited breeds? Is it all only temperament? > > > This is very vague, Virginia, and I don't know how to clarify it...but I've > never seen such an "old soul" nature, even spirituality maybe, in any breed > as with Icelandic's. I'm not prone to say that sort of thing, and I can't > precisely define it, but there's something there that touches my heart. > Cary has never verbalized it, but I think he feels it too. Weird, huh? This is what I found personally when I was looking at gaited horses: I did not care for the foxtrot, and I didn't like any of the MFTs I looked at. I felt that the Pasos I looked at were very aloof, and at the time I wanted a bigger horse. Rockies were too expensive. So I settled on a TWH. When I started looking into a new gaited horse several years ago, another TWH was out b/c I felt that there was too much variation within the breed--they have been bred by everyone and his brother, gotten too popular, too much "junk" within the breed. I also felt that it would be difficult to find an ethical breeder around my area. I took another look at Icelandics, liked the size, rode one and liked the tolt. I felt that since they aren't as popular as the TWH, there would be a better chance of finding a quality breeder. Maybe I'm off the mark w/ that particular comment, but I'm very happy w/ the colt I have, and I liked the breeder very much. Shadow is sound, healthy, of good quality, and has a good temperament. If I got another horse there would be no question that it would be another Icelandic. Even my husband likes them better and he isn't even a horse person! I love my TWH and we have a great bond, but I wouldn't get another. Robyn S
RE: [IceHorses] Differences -- Janice
So most of the difference is in temperament? How about comparing Icelandics with Pasos and other gaited breeds? Is it all only temperament? This is very vague, Virginia, and I don't know how to clarify it...but I've never seen such an "old soul" nature, even spirituality maybe, in any breed as with Icelandic's. I'm not prone to say that sort of thing, and I can't precisely define it, but there's something there that touches my heart. Cary has never verbalized it, but I think he feels it too. Weird, huh? Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.8/993 - Release Date: 9/6/2007 3:18 PM
RE: [IceHorses] Differences -- Janice
So most of the difference is in temperament? How about comparing Icelandics with Pasos and other gaited breeds? Is it all only temperament? Well, gaits are gaits, whatever the gaited breed, so I'd take that off the table right off the bat. Mainly decide what gaits are important to you and find a horse that meets your criteria. Icelandic's are definitely shorter on average than any other gaited breed. I think that's a plus, but not everyone does of course. MY major "wants" when looking for an Icelandic at first were 1) temperament/non-spookiness 2) intelligence/trainability/partnering potential 3) short height, although initially "under 14.2" was short. Gaits were somewhere in the next 3-4 items on my wish list. I DID want a horse that could trot, but beyond that I wasn't too picky.(Ironically, trot isn't Sina's strongest gait, but she does have a nice foxtrot.) That's just what I wanted though. I certainly found plenty of Icelandic's to meet my first three criteria right off the batalthough I had to travel pretty far to find ANY Icelandics. Note though, that I didn't do my initial Icelandic shopping with anyone who has serious interest in "show horses". I don't know too much about any of the Paso horses. I've seen one Paso Fino gelding locally that I sure would have looked at when I was first looking but I didn't see him them. He really seems great - nice gaits, sweet nature and good looking too. Some seem pretty hot, but not him. I've seen some very nice SSH and RMH, but I've also seen some so intermixed with some of the hotter TWH lines that they don't appeal to me at all. I also adore Janice's Traveller but there aren't many McCurdy's outside the Deep South. In other words, I think there is a wide range of gaits and temperaments in any of these breeds. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.8/993 - Release Date: 9/6/2007 3:18 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Differences -- Janice
On 9/7/07, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> Janice you have Walkers and Icelandics -- it would probably be difficult > to choose which you prefer so I'll ask what are the differences, other than > height? > > > I'm not Janice, nor do I play her on the Internet, but I'll give you my > unsolicited two-cents worth. So most of the difference is in temperament? How about comparing Icelandics with Pasos and other gaited breeds? Is it all only temperament? V
RE: [IceHorses] Differences -- Janice
>>> Janice you have Walkers and Icelandics -- it would probably be difficult to choose which you prefer so I'll ask what are the differences, other than height? I'm not Janice, nor do I play her on the Internet, but I'll give you my unsolicited two-cents worth. This might be an interesting test so let's see if Janice has a totally different answer! She has two Icelandics, one rideable, but several TWH/McCurdy/racking horses. I've only had two TWH, but 20 or so Icelandic's... Gaited horses are very common in my area, but I've never seen so many in groups like Janice shows in her pictures. Our perspectives could be quite different! There are some VERY nice TWH out there. If I hadn't had Holly, I would have never looked at Icelandics. But, I honestly think you're going to have a tough time finding so many mellow, non-spooky TWH's to pick from. There are some that are, more of the "old fashioned" lines like Mac and Holly. But there are also some pretty hot and high-strung TWH out there, some that I don't care for so much. I once thought Holly was about as non-spooky and fun to ride on the trails as any horse I'd ever meet...but since then, I've met Sina, Melnir, Falki, Skjoni, Trausti, Saga, Svertla, Flekka. ... the list goes on. Note that none of these ever had any show-type training at all. Coincidence? I can't say. Training can have a huge impact on how we see the horses. It's very easy to confuse "nervous" or "untrained" or "in pain" with "goey" or "spirited." Eitill is probably my most reactive Icelandic...and I think he's more in the range of Holly, who was once my standard to judge by. I wouldn't call them spooky, just not the "ain't skeered of nothing" kind of horses like Sina and Melnir. I know that some Icelandic's aren't so easy-going either, but I think you'll find more to pick from in this breed than in any I've seen. Where I'd consider Holly a really sensible TWH, I'd consider her only so-so as an Icelandic in terms of reactiveness/spookiness. It all comes down to the individual of course, so I'm sure there are some TWH I'd like better than some Icelandics. If I couldn't for some reason keep my Icelandic's, I'd certainly be happy to look at a TWH like Holly. But, as long as I can find so many Icelandic's with these traits, I probably won't ever look at another TWH. There are a lot of pacey TWH, but there are also a few that trot and gait really nicely, like Holly. It sounds like Nancy has one with gaits much like Holly's. You probably won't find a three-gaited (w/t/c) TWH though, certainly nt many, while there are Icelandic's who are described as "four-gaited" that I don't consider to have much natural gait - but they can be excellent horses too, if you aren't gait-obsessed. Gaits are gaits, whatever the breed, so just look at the individual horse. Every breed seems to have some with good gaits, some with bad, and some so-so. Keep in mind, I've had "favorite horses" at various times who were a TWH, a QH and an App, and my daughter's favorite was (is) an Arab. But, I've had MANY "favorites" who are Icelandic's, and in a relatively short time. This is the first time I've every really experienced "breed loyalty." Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.8/993 - Release Date: 9/6/2007 3:18 PM
