Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
> When being bridled Gat will move her head and open willingly for the > bit, so she's accepting it at that point. Occasionally when being > ridden she will open her mouth. Can a horse accept and not accept the > bit at the same time? Yes, I think so. It's good that she opens willingly for the bit. And it's good that she mostly keeps her mouth closed on the bit. I think it would be a good experiment to study when she opens her mouth; what is happening, is it a gait change, more contact on the bit, turning corners, etc. That should tell you things that may help her to not open her mouth (maybe a bit change is in order, maybe different cues, lighter hands, etc.). Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
Hi Virginia >>>When being bridled Gat will move her head and open willingly for the bit, so she's accepting it at that point. Occasionally when being ridden she will open her mouth. Can a horse accept and not accept the bit at the same time? I think so. When a horse opens his/her mouth it can be relative to what the rider is doing, how the horse is feeling on a particular day and what is being asked. Since horses aren't robots and neither are their riders I can't imagine a horse being exactly the same every day. We're not... : )) r Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood & Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
On Dec 8, 2007 9:30 PM, Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I would guess that Stella, at that time, was not trained to accept the bit, > to pick it up and hold it herself. > When being bridled Gat will move her head and open willingly for the bit, so she's accepting it at that point. Occasionally when being ridden she will open her mouth. Can a horse accept and not accept the bit at the same time? V
Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
>> What about the horses who use a snaffle and do not have the problem of >> the >> bit sliding thru the horse's mouth? > > Just wanted you to know that way back when, Stella would open her > mouth so wide when we were riding that the snaffle would go all the > way to one side and she would only have rein in her mouth. I would guess that Stella, at that time, was not trained to accept the bit, to pick it up and hold it herself. I think that's part of the failure of relying on equipment and not training. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
> What about the horses who use a snaffle and do not have the problem of the > bit sliding thru the horse's mouth? > Just wanted you to know that way back when, Stella would open her mouth so wide when we were riding that the snaffle would go all the way to one side and she would only have rein in her mouth. I have learned alot since then and she is now 24 so it was a long time ago. She is retired but was last ridden with only a sidepull. Ann
Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
>>>Because a caveson noseband doesn't stabilize the bit. > Because the noseband sits under the bit it keeps it from sliding through > the > horse's mouth should a rider have more contact on one rein than the other. I'm just curious as to the why's of using a dropped noseband. What about the horses who use a snaffle and do not have the problem of the bit sliding thru the horse's mouth? Would that be a rider problem or a horse problem? In either case, could it be addressed with training? Do you think that the horse can learn to stabilize the bit himself? should he? Are we short-changing the horse if we don't allow him to learn how to do this? > It also gives us something to steady a horse with when people are > mounting. Could a cavesson do the same trick? Why not use a browband and throatlatch? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
Hi Judy, >>>How does the dropped noseband stabilize the bit? What are the mechanics? Because the noseband sits under the bit it keeps it from sliding through the horse's mouth should a rider have more contact on one rein than the other. I understand that you prefer to use a curb strap between the rings and I see the noseband as another choice. It also gives us something to steady a horse with when people are mounting. We always hold our horses when people are mounting, and we usually hold the stirrup strap as well to be sure the saddle is stable. I don't really like holding the horse by the mouth so the noseband works better for us. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood & Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
> Because a caveson noseband doesn't stabilize the bit. How does the dropped noseband stabilize the bit? What are the mechanics? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
Hi Judy, >>Then why not another choice of noseband? Because a caveson noseband doesn't stabilize the bit. What is it about dropped nosebands done up loosely that you don't like? Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood & Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
>>That is why WE use them. We don't use browbands or throatlatches on our >>and >>so we use dropped noseband BUT they are not tight - our horses can always >>eat crunchies and carrots very easily. > > Likewise. Mostly ours are so loose we don't ever fasten or unfasten > them, just slip them on over the chin. Then why not another choice of noseband? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands and Monkeys
>> http://www.notion.net/icelandichorses2007/qtpreviewT1.html > > I finally got the time to watch these - I was encouraged to see that > there was less cantle sitting in this video than in others I have seen > in the past Good catch, Laree. They're listening to us! The 100 Monkey Theory at work! Doesn't matter if it does or does not work with monkeys, or whether it's a true phenomenon or not... it works with people, and mainly is common sense; that's how learning occurs :-) Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
--- Nancy Sturm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And Mic, what was the problem with the comfort snaffle? I think > their > catalog lists it as approved for the lower level dressage tests. > > Our daughter just bought an amazingly athletic AngloArab mare, > grandaughter > of Seattle Slew. This is after the mare ran away (big time run > away during > an endurance ride- several miles at the gallop) with her > professional > endurance rider/trainer earlier this summer. The Myler Comfort > Snaffle was > the answer to just about everything for this one horse. She's > soft-eyed and > responsive. > > Nancy > > Sally uses that bit on her goey mare, who loves it, plus she feels the way it is designed she can communicate each side very independantly... Skye Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
> > > Watch the videos of the WC > > http://www.notion.net/icelandichorses2007/qtpromo.html > > http://www.notion.net/icelandichorses2007/qtpreviewT1.html I finally got the time to watch these and at the chance of sticking my neck out to get my head chopped off - I was encouraged to see that there was less cantle sitting in this video than in others I have seen in the past (note: I didn't say it was toally eliminated) While there is plenty still to find wrong here, at least, for me, there was that small note of encouragement. Laree
Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:35:10 -0700, you wrote: >And Mic, what was the problem with the comfort snaffle? I wish I knew Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
>Mic, what is the base problem? I wish I knew. According to the FIPO: - Nothing may be added on to bits other than smooth bit guards and chain guards, and nothing else is allowed in the horse's mouth. - Prohibited bits and/or bridles that are clearly designed for another purpose, (such as bits for cart horses,) or are part of tack designed for a different riding style/culture, or are used in another way then what they are designed for. For me, that would certainly exclude the Paso bit, but not the Myler snaffle. > >Is it politics? No, certainly not in the case of this little show - the judge had never even been to this country before and didn't know anyone at the show. > >Do they not understand the tack? I think that's part of the problem. Unfortunately I didn't have my copy of FIPO with me to wave at them as I wasn't judging that weekend apart from the pace classes. Basically they were in the wrong. > >Is it custom? > I'm not sure. I know it used to be quite common for horses in Iceland to be ridden in Icelandic bits with flash nosebands, even when it was not allowed at any FIPO competitions in Europe. There was a big hoo hah at one WC where the logo featured a horse in an Icelandic bit and flash, which has to be quickly photo-shopped as it was against FIPO rules at the time! Since the rules have been changed to allow that combination, it almost seems like it's become the fashion. Before the new "anything goes" rule, it was almost worse, apart from the Icebit/flash thing. For instance gag bits were specifically allowed, yet rubber mouthed snaffles were not (the bit had to made from only one material). Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
On 9/13/07, Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >I snagged a couple of still pictures from the video. I may buy that video, > >just to see more details. > > > I've just ordered it. > > Did you notice how LONG the feet are? Even the one with the great > chunk out of it? You couldn't miss that. Robyn S
Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
And Mic, what was the problem with the comfort snaffle? I think their catalog lists it as approved for the lower level dressage tests. Our daughter just bought an amazingly athletic AngloArab mare, grandaughter of Seattle Slew. This is after the mare ran away (big time run away during an endurance ride- several miles at the gallop) with her professional endurance rider/trainer earlier this summer. The Myler Comfort Snaffle was the answer to just about everything for this one horse. She's soft-eyed and responsive. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
> It's like bits - that bloody awful Paso bit and flash were allowed at > the WC, yet at the show last weekend I was told by the (German but > lived in Iceland for years) judge that I was not allowed to use the > Myler Comfort Snaffle which Skessa loves (which is part of the reason > I ended up using the loose drop noseband, her brakes in that plain > snaffle I used were dire). This, while other people had Icelandic bits > and flashes... Mic, what is the base problem? Is it politics? Do they not understand the tack? Is it custom? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
What I don't get is that at a show in the UK, no way would feet that long be permitted. Under FIPO rules, they should NOT be permitted - yet at a world championships, after several inspections, they were allowed. Then that's just plain corruption...whatever you want to call it. Personally, I have a problem with many of the rules, but when they turn a blind eye to their own rules, that's...well, it's all too familiar unfortunately in the gaited horse show world. It shouldn't be supported. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 04:52:26 -0400, you wrote: >Those feet are as long as show Saddlebreds.. What I don't get is that at a show in the UK, no way would feet that long be permitted. Under FIPO rules, they should NOT be permitted - yet at a world championships, after several inspections, they were allowed. It's like bits - that bloody awful Paso bit and flash were allowed at the WC, yet at the show last weekend I was told by the (German but lived in Iceland for years) judge that I was not allowed to use the Myler Comfort Snaffle which Skessa loves (which is part of the reason I ended up using the loose drop noseband, her brakes in that plain snaffle I used were dire). This, while other people had Icelandic bits and flashes... Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
RE: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
Did you notice how LONG the feet are? Even the one with the great chunk out of it? Yes, I did and THANK YOU, Mic, for pointing it out. I appreciate someone else seeing some of the things that totally drive me nuts in this breed, among the show people. I know people get tired of me always pointing out things, but someone needs to speak up. Those feet are as long as show Saddlebreds...and they were using some packing material...and they were using bell boots. This escalation keeps on... it's gotta stop. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
>I snagged a couple of still pictures from the video. I may buy that video, >just to see more details. > I've just ordered it. Did you notice how LONG the feet are? Even the one with the great chunk out of it? Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Dropped Nosebands
>> Does anybody on here think dropped, tight nosebands are a good > thing?? if so, state your case so i can argue with you sensibly :) > -Now that's a good question Janice :-). I personally > don't ride in one. I can't answer if they are good, bad right or > wrong. But I can tell you that it prevented Osp from clearly telling > me that she wasn't comfortable in the single joint snaffle bit that > we initially rode her in. I think we can clearly see that the dropped nosebands on Icelandic Horses are not a good thing. Combining them with bits that don't fit, and hands that are too heavy, is not a good thing. There does not seem to be an understanding of the biomechanics of the noseband, the bit, the hands, natural gait. Watch the videos of the WC http://www.notion.net/icelandichorses2007/qtpromo.html http://www.notion.net/icelandichorses2007/qtpreviewT1.html So many horses are fighting the bit... someone should do something about that type of riding. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
