RE: WAP - What A Problem...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Provided your message fits into 160 characters. - --murton - -Original Message- From: Graham Klyne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 05 July 2000 17:59 To: Vernon Schryver Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: WAP - What A Problem... At 07:22 PM 7/4/00 -0600, Vernon Schryver wrote: If you are only using your cell phone screen for text messages, why do you need WAP? You don't. (My phone isn't a WAP phone, but it does do SMS.) #g - Graham Klyne ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBOWKs19dTCRmPZunGEQLMSQCgrVUEojnTxFFatkC6iVRx1rLfliQAoNtF c2Ct0TnhNg8gkjqg27d07h9U =eINA -END PGP SIGNATURE-
RE: WAP - What A Problem...
Well I guess when you look at multiple technologies like VR (voice recognition), VN (voice navigation), IA (intelligent agents), WAP of course, Then you begin to see the relationships and importance of wireless applications. I concur with you on the point of land optics however the average person requires remote and mobile access to their corporate networks, intra-nets, extra-nets, and value-added-networks. Therefore one could conclude that wireless access will have a main space within future technologies. In addition to this point I would like to also state WAP is the front runner in regards to linking wireless apps to the Global Internet and her sub-nets. Also, I would like to re-reference you to understanding Teledesic's network model. This is where you can clearly see the wireless model @ work. In closing, I would ask that you stay aware of WAP for this is not a govt technology, it was formulated from people like you, me, the members of IETF! And it will play a major role in all of our lives from a protocol stand point. Video to Video, Voice to Text, Broadcast to IP, Data to Voice = WAP(Display) Coming From The Brain, JT -Original Message- From: Anthony Atkielski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 1:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: WAP - What A Problem... thats why intelsat and a cosortium of telcos has a charity that built a box that is solar powered and provides n gsm phones access + 1 64kbps uplink/ downlink to geostatinary atellites So that's what, 64/5 = 13 kbps per user? Even as current Internet designs require ever more bandwidth and strain even multi-megabit connections? And has anyone considered what happens when you have 6 million active ground transceivers trying to communicate with a single satellite? actualyl, a LOT of places that are really poor in the world dont even have electricty- but they can get batteries and if they use sms (e.g. for calling emergency service/flying doctors/vets etc), they can make them last quite a long time Why use SMS instead of just voice? Has anyone considered the ergonomics of WAP? Even if it works perfectly, how many people are willing to work on a screen smaller than a credit card? How many people are capable of touch-typing on a keyboard with only ten soft keys that must be pressed in various arcane combinations for almost ever letter? It just doesn't make intuitive sense. Anyway, I have a really good instinct for picking technology winners, and thus far I put WAP in the same category as MiniDiscs, bubble memory, color fax machines, and quadraphonic sound. I think the growth area is in broadband land-based links; I don't understand why people have flown off on tangents towards wireless when land links are just starting to come into their own. I suspect it is more politically motivated than technically motivated, and that is one reason why I think it will fail. A lot of time and effort is being wasted on WAP.
RE: WAP - What A Problem...
I like that close! -Original Message- From: Gilbert Cattoire [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 1:12 PM To: Anthony Atkielski; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: WAP - What A Problem... At 18:29 +0200 29/06/00, Anthony Atkielski wrote: I don't understand why so much effort is expended on things like WAP when 99% of the real world still doesn't have any access at all to the Internet, much less wireless access. And even of those who do, most have such slow connections that even download a simple test page is an ordeal. Refreshing... I know it's not very sexy to drop the blue-sky toys, but doesn't anyone ever work on improving and democratizing existing infrastructure instead of widening the gap between what people really have and what looks cool in the lab? Yes indeed. It would be interesting to know how many of us on this list agree with you. Yet again, as I just mentioned in an earlier post, isn't it a matter regarding business models rather than technology? What looks cool in the lab is quite often related to what is dear to investors'eyes. WAP is just such a thing, regardless of technical niceties : a closed proprietary system built for a closed business model blessed with himalayan piles of cash. Is it healthy ? With the Internet spirit in mind, does anyone need to dwell in the intricacies of gateways and so on to answer this question ? I would suggest this daring task : when in doubt, reboot your mindset. best to all, Gilbert Cattoire == +33 (0)6 08 35 15 82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ==
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
"Taylor, Johnny" wrote: In addition to this point I would like to also state WAP is the front runner in regards to linking wireless apps to the Global Internet and her sub-nets. I'd have to disagree there. The 8 million non-WAP users in Japan are unarguably enjoying the most prolific, robust, and deep wireless Internet available today. Regards, r e n -- ascii: r e n f i e l d octal: \162 \145 \156 \146 \151 \145 \154 \144 hex: \x72 \x65 \x6e \x66 \x69 \x65 \x6c \x64 ** note new work email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] **
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
I concur with you on the point of land optics however the average person requires remote and mobile access to their corporate networks, intra-nets, extra-nets, and value-added-networks. The average person doesn't use any of these networks, and so does not require access to them. There are still too many people (_most_ people, in fact) who do not have an e-mail address. Therefore one could conclude that wireless access will have a main space within future technologies. Some sort of wireless access to the Internet will surely have a place in the future. Beyond that, I wouldn't make any specific predictions about what form it might take. In addition to this point I would like to also state WAP is the front runner in regards to linking wireless apps to the Global Internet and her sub-nets. I'm not sure what you mean by "Global Internet," since I'm not aware of any other kind of Internet. Also, in English, inanimate objects and concepts take the neuter gender, not the female gender, so the Internet is "it," not "she." Also, I would like to re-reference you to understanding Teledesic's network model. Satellites in low orbit providing two-way communication with a vast number of ground stations, right? What else is there to it? This is where you can clearly see the wireless model @ work. Has this wireless network actually been implemented? Last I heard of anything coming close was Iridium, and we know what happened to that. In closing, I would ask that you stay aware of WAP for this is not a govt technology, it was formulated from people like you, me, the members of IETF! I'm as aware of it as I was of MiniDiscs and Betamax. When and if it moves to the mainstream (something I do not really expect at this point), I'll consider it in greater detail. One thing I'd like to know is: Is WAP a response to user demands for wireless Net access from credit-card-sized terminals, or is WAP something that looked like it would be cool to implement that the inventors and their marketroids are now trying to sell to others? And it will play a major role in all of our lives from a protocol stand point. Just like Picturephone service and DIVX. Video to Video, Voice to Text, Broadcast to IP, Data to Voice = WAP(Display) I don't see the two killer apps here--e-mail and the Web--unless they are disguised in terminology somewhere in there. I'm not even convinced of the practicality of those, however, on terminals that are ergonomically unsuitable to either.
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
Graham Klyne wrote: At 07:12 PM 6/30/00 +0200, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Why use SMS instead of just voice? Has anyone considered the ergonomics of WAP? Even if it works perfectly, how many people are willing to work on a screen smaller than a credit card? Well, 10 million Japanese, and growing by 20,000 every DAY. How many people are capable of touch-typing on a keyboard with only ten soft keys that must be pressed in various arcane combinations for almost ever letter? It just doesn't make intuitive sense. In Japan email and SMS traffic is outstripping voice calls. The number of SMS and/or emails (in Japan the difference between email and SMS is prtty much transparent) is growing more rapidly than cell phone penetration and voice calls. In fact, chat rooms, realtime chat, and message boards are also very popular now, too. Regards, r e n
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
Well, 10 million Japanese, and growing by 20,000 every DAY. Only 100 million more to go. The Japanese, however, have a passion for highly miniaturized gadgets, so I'm not sure that they are representative. Personally, I don't even have a laptop, mainly because I find laptops so incredibly clumsy to use, with their tiny keyboards and bizarre mouse substitutes and what-not. In Japan email and SMS traffic is outstripping voice calls. E-mail via what type of computer or terminal?
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
Well, 10 million Japanese, and growing by 20,000 every DAY. Only 100 million more to go. The Japanese, however, have a passion for highly miniaturized gadgets, so I'm not sure that they are representative. Personally, I don't even have a laptop, mainly because I find laptops so incredibly clumsy to use, with their tiny keyboards and bizarre mouse substitutes and what-not. ... The recent reports have concerned email and similar small text messages. Pure email is very different from the world wide superhypeway web. I value email far higher than the WWW, perhaps because I've been receiving email as "vjs" since the 1960's. However, even I doubt that the telephants would have jumped on the WAP bandwagon if WAP were intended merely as competition for the alphanumeric or "chatty" paging services common at least in Silicon Valley since the early 1990's, and now commonly two-way. If you are only using your cell phone screen for text messages, why do you need WAP? I doubt even the WAP enthusiasts would claim that 14 kbit/sec is very a low speed or that radio telephones have terrible BER's for moving tiny, text-only messages. The notion that WAP will be only ever be used for tiny, text only messages sounds likely to me, but doesn't put WAP enthusiasts in a good light and shouldn't please their stockholders. Vernon Schryver[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
At 07:12 PM 6/30/00 +0200, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Why use SMS instead of just voice? Has anyone considered the ergonomics of WAP? Even if it works perfectly, how many people are willing to work on a screen smaller than a credit card? How many people are capable of touch-typing on a keyboard with only ten soft keys that must be pressed in various arcane combinations for almost ever letter? It just doesn't make intuitive sense. On the face of it, I would have tended to agree. But I have been astonished by the degree of adoption of SMS (in UK) by school children who purchase their own pre-pay mobile phones (for about $50-100). SMS may be awkward, but the per-use cost is is very low, and totally predictable. And the users in this case soon learn to handle the "inadequate" user interface. But it doesn't stop there: when I travel abroad, my daughter sends SMS messages to my mobile phone, and I respond in kind. And wherever I am in the world, the cost does not very. And even I am finding the user interface manageable for simple messages. Because it's messaging, not isochronous, SMS can ride "low-grade" bandwidth that voice cannot use. I sometimes think the advantages of messaging are lost among those who are used to continuous network connections. #g Graham Klyne ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
RE: WAP - What A Problem...
But I have been astonished by the degree of adoption of SMS (in UK) by school children who purchase their own pre-pay mobile phones (for about $50-100). SMS may be awkward, but the per-use cost is is very low, and totally predictable. And the users in this case soon learn to handle the "inadequate" user interface. I have to agree, my daughter can type at astonishing speed on her cell phone - it is a good way for me to keep in touch with her P. This message has been checked for all known viruses, by Star Internet, delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit: http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Alan Simpkins t yped: Valdis, I agree with you a hundred percent. The most expensive part of infrastructure is pulling the cables/fiber necessary to build the infrastrucuture. thats why intelsat and a cosortium of telcos has a charity that built a box that is solar powered and provides n gsm phones access + 1 64kbps uplink/downlink to geostatinary atellites actualyl, a LOT of places that are really poor in the world dont even have electricty- but they can get batteries and if they use sms (e.g. for calling emergency service/flying doctors/vets etc), they can make them last quite a long time --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 00:41:37 +0200, Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: If they are that lacking in mere wires, they probably aren't in a position to profit from access to the Internet in the first place. That is, if they lack telephones (and that's all they need for broadband, or at least it's the better part of the battle), why would they be surfing the Web? First things first. The fact that they lack wires doesn't mean they lack telephones. Remember that wires are expensive to pull, especially for those 3 houses out on the far side of the mountain down the dirt road. Countries without landlines are not going to be a part of the global economy unless they upgrade in a major way very soon. You got this wrong. Countries without *connectivity* will be screwed. There's no *obvious* requirement that there be a landline involved. Having said that, I'm *not* a WAP proponent. ;) -- Valdis Kletnieks Operating Systems Analyst Virginia Tech ATTACHMENT part 2 application/pgp-signature __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ cheers jon
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
-- Forwarded by Jim Stephenson-Dunn/C/HQ/3Com on 06/30/2000 11:24 AM --- sent by: Jim Stephenson-Dunn - Network Engineer, GIS LAN/WAN To: Alan Simpkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: WAP - What A Problem... (Document link: Database 'Jim Stephenson-Dunn', View '($Sent)') Valdis and Alan, you have a very valid point, infrastructure is not only expensive but very time consuming. The engineering component (configuration) is a relatively quick process by comparison. A country cannot just throw in a national communications infrastructure overnight. Having said that though, if people don't know how to use the telephone, they are unlikely to embrace the Internet. IMHO as the world slowly goes IP, this is perhaps an attempt by the Telco,s who see shrinking margins to try and bolster use of their products. I am having conversations with about 9 people around the world who are building a pure IP infrastructure (point to point fiber) who are going nowhere near the Telco's. Whilst it may appeal to the boys and their toys complex who may feel that having a WAP enabled handset empowers them and/or makes the neighbours jealous WAP that brings the Internet to a cellular device is of limited use because of the power and memory constraints of those devices. Why look at information on a WAP enabled phone with it's small screen, when it is easier to pull out my laptop, fire it up and see all of the information in one place at one time, with lots of memory and processing power at my command. Whilst I realise that Voice protocols have their place, it is IMHO only a matter of time, before this family of protocols gets to old and unworkable in the new world order of IP, that we will have little choice but to take it into the backyard with a shotgun. Jim ** Legal Disclaimer The opinions expressed within this mail are specifically my own and in no way refer to or relate to any ongoing business and/or the technical direction of 3Com Corporation, or any subsidiary companies or business units within 3Com Corporation and its subsidiaries. ** Alan Simpkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 06/30/2000 08:22:38 AM Sent by: Alan Simpkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Stephenson-Dunn/C/HQ/3Com) Subject: Re: WAP - What A Problem... Valdis, I agree with you a hundred percent. The most expensive part of infrastructure is pulling the cables/fiber necessary to build the infrastrucuture. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 00:41:37 +0200, Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: If they are that lacking in mere wires, they probably aren't in a position to profit from access to the Internet in the first place. That is, if they lack telephones (and that's all they need for broadband, or at least it's the better part of the battle), why would they be surfing the Web? First things first. The fact that they lack wires doesn't mean they lack telephones. Remember that wires are expensive to pull, especially for those 3 houses out on the far side of the mountain down the dirt road. Countries without landlines are not going to be a part of the global economy unless they upgrade in a major way very soon. You got this wrong. Countries without *connectivity* will be screwed. There's no *obvious* requirement that there be a landline involved. Having said that, I'm *not* a WAP proponent. ;) -- Valdis Kletnieks Operating Systems Analyst Virginia Tech ATTACHMENT part 2 application/pgp-signature __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 19:12:26 +0200, Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Anyway, I have a really good instinct for picking technology winners, and thus far I put WAP in the same category as MiniDiscs, bubble memory, color fax machines, and quadraphonic sound. I think the growth area is in: The MiniDisc died. MP3 is a big business. People wanted the functionality. The MD is in no way dead. There are MILLIONS of them in Japan and across Asia. MDs never took off in the US/Europe, but that doesn't relegate it to the betmax graveyard. When 1 billion Chinese are recording their MP3s onto MDs and memory sticks, would you call that a dead technology? WAP may die like the other stuff mentioned above. However, people DO want the functionality - or something like it. Absolutely. Whatever the technical standard, mobile computing is not going away. Regards, r e n -- ascii: r e n f i e l d octal: \162 \145 \156 \146 \151 \145 \154 \144 hex: \x72 \x65 \x6e \x66 \x69 \x65 \x6c \x64 ** note new work email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
I don't understand why so much effort is expended on things like WAP when 99% of the real world still doesn't have any access at all to the Internet, much less wireless access. And even of those who do, most have such slow connections that even download a simple test page is an ordeal. I know it's not very sexy to drop the blue-sky toys, but doesn't anyone ever work on improving and democratizing existing infrastructure instead of widening the gap between what people really have and what looks cool in the lab? -- Anthony - Original Message - From: "Jon Crowcroft" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "'IETF Mailing List'" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 09:10 Subject: Re: WAP - What A Problem... a technical discussion worth reading is at http://www.osopinion.com/Opinions/MikeBanahan/MikeBanahan1.html it would seeem (as i've suspected for a while) that the community in charge of this development has the same problem as the guy who built jurassic park - they haev no discipline, or understanding of computing and the software/jhardware interface tradeoffs - this is qutie a common problem in communications work - people come from one side of the tracks (either jsut software or just engineering, or ust plain theory) - systems architecture is hard stuff, but there is little point standing on the toes of giants, when its possible to stand on their shouldersit both ends of the problem space, whether application level and devising new markup languages for restricted display, or low level work in customising protocol stacks for resource scarce environments , there is a body of public work out there, and of researchers who are willing to cosntructively critique proposals provided they are carried out in a public way with optimally zero cost for access to early drafts, but at least low entry cost - it is also a good idea to let those wacky media lab types get their hands on hardware prototypes, since they will (as william gibson puts it) "find a street use for things" - its instructive to see how wavelan and its cousins have fared so well after being handed over to the ietf - if we'd have PCMCIA GSM and GPRS (and bluetooth) cards, despite battery power or other clunkiness problems, we might haev made less of a dogs dinner of things...(when i say we, i mean the interdisciplinary, apparently unstructured, but actually highly organised force that will fit anything to IP, and not vice versa) give me a level long enough and we can moev the earth - give the wrong end of the same level to the wrong people and they can crush a diamond. j.
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
I would tend to disagree, working for a communications company that specializes in working with multinationals and dealing with the associated infrastrucures in foriegn countries I have found that in many countries it is not financially feasible, nor geagraphically feasible to try to create the kind of communications infrastructure in place that we enjoy in some of the more industrialized countries. For some countries it is more feasible for people to use mobile technology than to try to put in place the fiber, and copper necessary to allow them to communicate using some of what might be called the more traditional methods. WAP, and mobile technology is a necessary component to the future of the global economy. Regards, Alan --- Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't understand why so much effort is expended on things like WAP when 99% of the real world still doesn't have any access at all to the Internet, much less wireless access. And even of those who do, most have such slow connections that even download a simple test page is an ordeal. I know it's not very sexy to drop the blue-sky toys, but doesn't anyone ever work on improving and democratizing existing infrastructure instead of widening the gap between what people really have and what looks cool in the lab? -- Anthony - Original Message - From: "Jon Crowcroft" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "'IETF Mailing List'" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 09:10 Subject: Re: WAP - What A Problem... a technical discussion worth reading is at http://www.osopinion.com/Opinions/MikeBanahan/MikeBanahan1.html it would seeem (as i've suspected for a while) that the community in charge of this development has the same problem as the guy who built jurassic park - they haev no discipline, or understanding of computing and the software/jhardware interface tradeoffs - this is qutie a common problem in communications work - people come from one side of the tracks (either jsut software or just engineering, or ust plain theory) - systems architecture is hard stuff, but there is little point standing on the toes of giants, when its possible to stand on their shouldersit both ends of the problem space, whether application level and devising new markup languages for restricted display, or low level work in customising protocol stacks for resource scarce environments , there is a body of public work out there, and of researchers who are willing to cosntructively critique proposals provided they are carried out in a public way with optimally zero cost for access to early drafts, but at least low entry cost - it is also a good idea to let those wacky media lab types get their hands on hardware prototypes, since they will (as william gibson puts it) "find a street use for things" - its instructive to see how wavelan and its cousins have fared so well after being handed over to the ietf - if we'd have PCMCIA GSM and GPRS (and bluetooth) cards, despite battery power or other clunkiness problems, we might haev made less of a dogs dinner of things...(when i say we, i mean the interdisciplinary, apparently unstructured, but actually highly organised force that will fit anything to IP, and not vice versa) give me a level long enough and we can moev the earth - give the wrong end of the same level to the wrong people and they can crush a diamond. j. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
At 18:29 +0200 29/06/00, Anthony Atkielski wrote: I don't understand why so much effort is expended on things like WAP when 99% of the real world still doesn't have any access at all to the Internet, much less wireless access. And even of those who do, most have such slow connections that even download a simple test page is an ordeal. Refreshing... I know it's not very sexy to drop the blue-sky toys, but doesn't anyone ever work on improving and democratizing existing infrastructure instead of widening the gap between what people really have and what looks cool in the lab? Yes indeed. It would be interesting to know how many of us on this list agree with you. Yet again, as I just mentioned in an earlier post, isn't it a matter regarding business models rather than technology? What looks cool in the lab is quite often related to what is dear to investors'eyes. WAP is just such a thing, regardless of technical niceties : a closed proprietary system built for a closed business model blessed with himalayan piles of cash. Is it healthy ? With the Internet spirit in mind, does anyone need to dwell in the intricacies of gateways and so on to answer this question ? I would suggest this daring task : when in doubt, reboot your mindset. best to all, Gilbert Cattoire == +33 (0)6 08 35 15 82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ==
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
This I can agree with, the next question that naturally follows then is is WAP the right protocol for a fixed wireless application, or are we talking about yet another set of standards and protocols. I would tend to think that one set should work for both. Regards, Alan --- John Stracke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alan Simpkins wrote: For some countries it is more feasible for people to use mobile technology But better still is fixed-wireless, which can deliver bandwidth more cheaply, because you have more predictable signal conditions. Unless you're talking about nomadic headers getting online out in the Sahara--in which case, development money would be better spent on, say, reforestation. -- /=\ |John Stracke| http://www.ecal.com |My opinions are my own. | |Chief Scientist || |eCal Corp. |"How quietly do you think we can nail these back| |[EMAIL PROTECTED]|in?" --Calvin | \=/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
Alan Simpkins wrote: This I can agree with, the next question that naturally follows then is is WAP the right protocol for a fixed wireless application, I'm pretty sure it isn't--IIRC, fixed-wireless equipment gives point-to-point links at something like T1 speed. In addition, the fact that all your users are running over the same wireless link gives you some maintainability advantages. For example, you can monitor their bandwidth usage en masse; and you have only one link to secure instead of one per user. Basically the same advantages as sharing a T1 line among 100 people instead of buying 100 modems. -- /==\ |John Stracke| http://www.ecal.com |My opinions are my own.| |Chief Scientist |=| |eCal Corp. |"Who died and made you king?" "My father." | |[EMAIL PROTECTED]| | \==/
RE: WAP - What A Problem...
-Original Message- From: Alan Simpkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 2:04 PM This I can agree with, the next question that naturally follows then is is WAP the right protocol for a fixed wireless application, or are we talking about yet another set of standards and protocols. I would tend to think that one set should work for both. WAP's working space is in cellular phones and two way pagers, i.e.., in hand-held (or pocket kept) mobile devices in cellular environment with fixed cell channels and continuous location update. Though TCP/IP could have been used here too - but carriers and manufacturers of cell phones/pagers chose not to use for reasons that have been previously discussed here with great vigor by some folks :-). Fixed location or limited mobility computers will most likely be connected using WLL or specialized Wireless Broadband Internet Access equipment or similar other options. They are no different than any computer in the building using Wireless LAN, and should/will use TCP/IP. Have a look at website of Adaptive Broadband which designs wireless Internet access equipment for ISPs. Cheers, --brijesh
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
For some countries it is more feasible for people to use mobile technology than to try to put in place the fiber, and copper necessary to allow them to communicate using some of what might be called the more traditional methods. If they are that lacking in mere wires, they probably aren't in a position to profit from access to the Internet in the first place. That is, if they lack telephones (and that's all they need for broadband, or at least it's the better part of the battle), why would they be surfing the Web? First things first. WAP, and mobile technology is a necessary component to the future of the global economy. Countries without landlines are not going to be a part of the global economy unless they upgrade in a major way very soon. Actually this just reinforces my point. Countries have no infrastructure at all and already we are trying to sell them WAP. Hmm.
Re: WAP - What A Problem...
But it would be a grave mistake to cease working on future developments while waiting for everyone to be able to share what we have now ... It hasn't gotten as far as sharing. We don't even have the "old" stuff in place and running, and already people want to replace it. You know, I'd much rather have greatly improved cellular-telephone voice quality than a tiny screen on a tiny phone for Internet services that I'll never use. I'd like to see the older technologies actually implemented and working smoothly before they are thrown away in favor of ever newer technologies. Right now I have a DSL line that is _supposed_ to allow 1000 kbps on the downlink. However, since nobody bothers to update the infrastructure behind it, sometimes I get more like 32 kbps on the line. And now people are talking about wireless connections. Well, I'd rather keep my DSL and see it actually run at its rated speed than adopt yet another jury-rigged lab experiment that will be declared obsolete before it even works correctly. Some of us have work to do, and we don't have the luxury or desire to just sit around trying to imagine "what next?" ... and that's not looking form the perspective of those who already have and don't want to be held back. I want what I've already been promised before they get what they are still dreaming about. This doesn't mean that we should stop assisting the rest of the world ... Why the rest of the world? Look in your own backyard. How many people do you know with even a broadband connection? For an accurate assessment, stop people on the street and ask them if they have broadband Internet access, and see what numbers you come up with. ... but neither should be be slowing down on advances just because some don't yet have what we currently use - if we're good enough, they may never need to. If we don't stop dreaming and start actually implementing, they'll never have anything at all.
RE: WAP - What A Problem...
-Original Message- From: Anthony Atkielski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 12:42 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: WAP - What A Problem... For some countries it is more feasible for people to use mobile technology than to try to put in place the fiber, and copper necessary to allow them to communicate using some of what might be called the more traditional methods. If they are that lacking in mere wires, they probably aren't in a position to profit from access to the Internet in the first place. That is, if they lack telephones (and that's all they need for broadband, or at least it's the better part of the battle), why would they be surfing the Web? First things first. WAP, and mobile technology is a necessary component to the future of the global economy. Countries without landlines are not going to be a part of the global economy unless they upgrade in a major way very soon. Actually this just reinforces my point. Countries have no infrastructure at all and already we are trying to sell them WAP. Hmm. EIK: I'm somewhat surprised. Are you saying that everybody should go through the same evolutionary steps e.g. for the telephone system and not start using new technologies as they become available? Wireless communication, albeit typically slower and more error prone, is both faster and cheaper to install (and thus much more practical) in several parts of the world than conventional land lines. Furthermore, for good reasons e.g. in Finland, a country where fixed wire telephony has been well established and highly popular, the mobile phone density has already surpassed it and exceeds 50 % of the population. __ Erkki I. Kolehmainen TIEKE Tietotekniikan kehittämiskeskus ry TIEKE Finnish Information Technology Development Centre Salomonkatu 17 A, 10th floor, FIN-00100 HELSINKI, FINLAND Phone: +358 9 4763 0301, Fax: +358 9 4763 0399 http://www.tieke.fi[EMAIL PROTECTED]
