Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007

[Sudev Barar]

On 06/02/07, Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Feb 2007 00:12:45 +0530, Sirtaj Singh Kang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>
> > On Monday 05 February 2007 11:37 pm, Manoj Srivastava wrote: [snip]
> >> I have absolutely no interest in earning money from my free
> >> software endeavors, and I know loads of people who share my
> >> sentiments.  Indeed, this seems to be the dominant viewpoint of the
> >> Debian developers, based on our most recent flamewar.
>
> > Out of interest, how do you earn your money?
>
> Not from my free software projects. I work for a company that
>  does research for the DARPA.

SSK/KG//MS this will divert the thread...start another topic if you
wish on how or why of earning money.

@Rahul - LiFY the list is still awaiting your response now that the
event is over and things should be back to normal.

-- 
Regards,
Sudev Barar

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Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Tue, 6 Feb 2007 09:37:43 +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> On 06-Feb-07, at 12:12 AM, Sirtaj Singh Kang wrote:

>>> I have absolutely no interest in earning money from my free
>>> software endeavors, and I know loads of people who share my
>>> sentiments.  Indeed, this seems to be the dominant viewpoint of
>>> the Debian developers, based on our most recent flamewar.
>> 
>> Out of interest, how do you earn your money?

> he writes software

Yes, crafting software is a significant part of my day job --
 but I really get paid to analyze systems, and problem spaces, and
 crafting solutions for novel problems, often in research space.  I am
 a systems architect, and  a security professional, and I can often
 get away with open sourcing the solution I have crafted; so that
 components of the solution can be reused for the next client.

manoj
-- 
"Personally, I always held my flower in a clenched fist." Abbie
Hoffman
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
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Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Tue, 6 Feb 2007 00:12:45 +0530, Sirtaj Singh Kang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> On Monday 05 February 2007 11:37 pm, Manoj Srivastava wrote: [snip]
>> I have absolutely no interest in earning money from my free
>> software endeavors, and I know loads of people who share my
>> sentiments.  Indeed, this seems to be the dominant viewpoint of the
>> Debian developers, based on our most recent flamewar.

> Out of interest, how do you earn your money?

Not from my free software projects. I work for a company that
 does research for the DARPA.

>> So no, I have not yet bought into the thesis that everyone wants to
>> make money from free software; though I find the direction that
>> hypothesis leads to interesting.

> FWIW, he did say

>> > If there is anyone in the list who is not
>> >  interested in earning money, please let me know.

> I fully sympathize with the sentiment that the earning of money need
> not be a primary nor even a secondary concern. But hacker bellies
> often need feeding, and internet access and clothing are sometimes
> nice too.

I like food, yes.  But that does not mean that I need to
 make money off free software -- there was an interesting blog post
 about the problems associated with trying to make money off free
 software:
   http://journal.dedasys.com/articles/2007/02/03/in-thrall-to-scarcity
 The conclusion he reached was that you needed some kind of scarcity
 to make good money -- even though consulting implies that the
 scarcity is a deep knowledge.

I didn't get into contributing to free software  to
 artificially create scarcity in order to benefit from it.

manoj
-- 
Sex dumps core (Sex is a Simple editor for X11) -- Seen on debian
bugtracking
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
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[ilugd] [Commercial] Want to Send / Receive SMS

[S. K. Goel]

Hi,


We are interested to send and Receive SMS using GSM Modem on Linux. In
case any one on the list have the experience for the same, he may
contact me offline.





[S K Goel]
Vice President
Om Logistics Limited
130, Transport Center
Punjabi Bagh
New Delhi - 110035.
Ph: 011-25970256
Mob: 9911224421



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Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On 06-Feb-07, at 12:12 AM, Sirtaj Singh Kang wrote:

>> I have absolutely no interest in earning money from my free
>>  software endeavors, and I know loads of people who share my
>>  sentiments.  Indeed, this seems to be the dominant viewpoint of the
>>  Debian developers, based on our most recent flamewar.
>
> Out of interest, how do you earn your money?

he writes software


-- 
regards

Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007

[Sirtaj Singh Kang]

On Monday 05 February 2007 11:37 pm, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
[snip]
> I have absolutely no interest in earning money from my free
>  software endeavors, and I know loads of people who share my
>  sentiments.  Indeed, this seems to be the dominant viewpoint of the
>  Debian developers, based on our most recent flamewar.

Out of interest, how do you earn your money?

> So no, I have not yet bought into the thesis that everyone
>  wants to make money from free software; though I find the direction
>  that hypothesis leads to interesting.

FWIW, he did say

> > If there is anyone in the list who is not
> >  interested in earning money, please let me know.

I fully sympathize with the sentiment that the earning of money need
not be a primary nor even a secondary concern. But hacker bellies often
need feeding, and internet access and clothing are sometimes nice too.

-Taj.




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Re: [ilugd] ilugd Digest, Vol 47, Issue 5

[Gora Mohanty]

On Mon, 2007-02-05 at 21:48 +0530, Mahesh T. Pai wrote:
> "Kamal Dave"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > In my opinion the decision to opt out has its god grounds but by not 
> > participating in the LA2007, there was an opportunity afforded to the MS to 
> > hack the cause of conference.  It must always be understood the control 
> > over 
> > the conference schedules also was given to the MS for stating their point 
> > and in the ultimate the lug remained the looser.

> A serious, alert [would be] customer will notice the absence of FLOSS
> activists in an event which is supposed to be about FLOSS.

I will second Mahesh's opinion, in opposition to what several people
have implied: That it is somehow the LUG's job to spread Linux (I
explicitly use Linux, rather than free software as a whole). Personally,
I couldn't care less if the rest of the world uses proprietary software,
as long as there is a viable free software community. Maybe it is time
for the free software companies that sponsor Linux-Asia to wake up and
smell the roses, but as far as I am concerned LA2007 was no skin off my
nose. At least at present, there are more fruitful avenues for the
promotion of free software.

> If s/he is does not notice, s/he is not a worthy customer.

Precisely. There are none so blind as those that refuse to see. If one
puts aside the egotism of working for a *good* cause, it becomes
apparent that people are really willing to make a change only when the
impetus comes from their side.

Regards,
Gora


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Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 20:46:51 -0800 (PST), vivek khurana  said: 

> Unfortunately, we are again heading for standard discussion
> of money versus knowledge sharing.  Why is it that most of our OSS
> vs. proprietary discussions end up being discussion of making (or
> not making) money from open source. Everyone wants to make money,
> including myself. If there is anyone in the list who is not
> interested in earning money, please let me know.

I have absolutely no interest in earning money from my free
 software endeavors, and I know loads of people who share my
 sentiments.  Indeed, this seems to be the dominant viewpoint of the
 Debian developers, based on our most recent flamewar.

So no, I have not yet bought into the thesis that everyone
 wants to make money from free software; though I find the direction
 that hypothesis leads to interesting.

manoj
-- 
We can found no scientific discipline, nor a healthy profession on the
technical mistakes of the Department of Defense and IBM - Edsger Dijkstra
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
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Re: [ilugd] ilugd Digest, Vol 47, Issue 5

[Mahesh T. Pai]

"Kamal Dave"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> In my opinion the decision to opt out has its god grounds but by not 
> participating in the LA2007, there was an opportunity afforded to the MS to 
> hack the cause of conference.  It must always be understood the control over 
> the conference schedules also was given to the MS for stating their point 
> and in the ultimate the lug remained the looser.

A serious, alert [would be] customer will notice the absence of FLOSS
activists in an event which is supposed to be about FLOSS.

If s/he is does not notice, s/he is not a worthy customer.

-- 
 Mahesh T. Pai <<>> http://paivakil.blogspot.com/
It's not the software that's free; it's you.


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Re: [ilugd] ilugd Digest, Vol 47, Issue 5

[Kamal Dave]

Hi All,
In my opinion the decision to opt out has its god grounds but by not 
participating in the LA2007, there was an opportunity afforded to the MS to 
hack the cause of conference.  It must always be understood the control over 
the conference schedules also was given to the MS for stating their point 
and in the ultimate the lug remained the looser.

Due to the delay/deliemma, the thought of floating group for freelance 
software developer and developing profile of capable software developers too 
was co-presented by other persons, hence loss to the ilug-delhi.

Kamal Dave

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Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007

[lawgon]

Quoting Sudev Barar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


> 
> There was no prevention. As you attended and proved your point to who
> ever came in. The basic issue was how can there be justification for
> FOSII to name an event LA and then allow the biggest opponent to walk
> away with hounors of Chief sponsorer and distribute products /
> literature for exactly opposite of what LA stood for.
> 
> As community we discuss ad debate events openly and if individuals
> find opprtunities to show case community then they should.

i think ilugd should be congratulated for not calling for a boycott. They
correctly left the decision to individuals



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Re: [ilugd] The MS trojan horse in Linux Asia 2007

[Sudev Barar]

On 05/02/07, vivek khurana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  Well interesting thread. I had been quite as I was
> interested in watching the general trend adopted by
> this thread. Unfortunately, we are again heading for
> standard discussion of money versus knowledge sharing.

Interesting and long thread. No we are not headed off towards money
and sharingalthough some people hae raised that bogey too.

>  M$ claimed that they want to educate clients on there
> new stance on open source but to me it appeared to be
> a claim only. I failed to understand how demonstration
> of Vista and M$ Office 2007 was geared towards OSS
> support. Also, i have heard  from some of the
> attendees of CXO summit that M$ distributed evaluation
> copies of proprietary software at CXO summit. I have
> not seen the cds myself so i cannot guarantee the

Exactly waht we were expecting M$ to do. But we are waiting for
"justification" promised by Rahul - LiFY - before reacting" wrongly.


> noticed that several newbies come to LA looking for
> what is Linux/OSS.. But this year they found M$
> demonstrating proprietary software. When community was
> so much worried about M$ sponsoring an OSS event, I am
> unable to understand what prevented them from

There was no prevention. As you attended and proved your point to who
ever came in. The basic issue was how can there be justification for
FOSII to name an event LA and then allow the biggest opponent to walk
away with hounors of Chief sponsorer and distribute products /
literature for exactly opposite of what LA stood for.

As community we discuss ad debate events openly and if individuals
find opprtunities to show case community then they should.
-- 
Regards,
Sudev Barar

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