Re: [ilugd] does this list have rules
On 13-Jan-08, at 12:16 PM, Ashish Shukla आशीष शुक्ल wrote: > Please read the list guidelines at http://kandalaya.org/ > guidelines.html before posting to the list. that is the personal opinion of Rajkumar Mathur - is he the arbitrator of this list? (the page is still loading so I cannot say more) -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ Foss conference for the common man: http://registration.fossconf.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] does this list have rules
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > Regarding [ilugd] does this list have rules [was] Re: [OT] Re: Linux > webcam; Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> adds: Kenneth> what list rules? where are the list rules codified? In your Kenneth> imagination? Go to the page on ilugd website that deals with mailing Kenneth> lists - can you find anything about list rules? can you find anything Kenneth> at all except a long listing of dead lists? Quoting from http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd: Please read the list guidelines at http://kandalaya.org/guidelines.html before posting to the list. HTH - -- Ashish Shukla आशीष शुक्ल http://wahjava.wordpress.com/ ·-- ·- ·--- ·- ···- ·- ·--·-· --· -- ·- ·· ·-·· ·-·-·- -·-· --- -- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHibPPHy+EEHYuXnQRAhaUAJ45xEC7i0YzWN1rmZYVDcenbfNGZgCaA9qf aaYUT6ztDxcCxEA34rqPsxI= =ByM5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] does this list have rules [was] Re: [OT] Re: Linux webcam
On 13-Jan-08, at 11:43 AM, Sudev Barar wrote: > @ALL: Trust KG to lead the thread to totally cross purposes than the > original. this is an insult. I personally am sick and tired of being insulted by the bosses of ilugd. Why do you not look at the thread to see who diverted it? > I thought many of us were aware of list rules what list rules? where are the list rules codified? In your imagination? Go to the page on ilugd website that deals with mailing lists - can you find anything about list rules? can you find anything at all except a long listing of dead lists? > . If you feel > something totally OT to original topic at least mark it OT or start a > new thread. have you started a new thread? - I have started one anyway ... -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ Foss conference for the common man: http://registration.fossconf.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] GTalk in Ubuntu (was Re: ilugd Digest, Vol 58, Issue 20)
On Jan 12, 2008 11:35 PM, Debarshi 'Rishi' Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Please if anyone could help me about how to use Gtalk in Ubuntu 7.10? > > You have a few options: > > + Pidgin -- > http://www.google.com/support/talk/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=24073 > + Freetalk -- http://www.gnu.org/software/freetalk > + Meebo -- http://wwwe.meebo.com/ > pidgin is indeed a very good option. I am using it for last 6 months . It also allows multiple account in different or same IM to be accessed simultaneously. -- Regards Subhodip Biswas GPG key : FAEA34AB Server : pgp.mit.edu http://subhodipbiswas.wordpress.com http:/www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/SubhodipBiswas ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] ATI Driver Install Issue
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 10:46:26 +0530, "Sahil Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: [snipped] Sahil> 2. as root Sahil> # amdcccle Sahil> Session management error: Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the Sahil> authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based Sahil> authentication failed It seems, you need to grant 'root' access to your X session, you can try doing 'xhost +' (which disables X server Access Control, probably you need to RTFM of xhost(1)) in your normal user, before trying to executing anything in 'root' user OR you need to use 'pam_xauth' in your PAM configuration. Quoting from pam_xauth(8): Without pam_xauth, when xauth is enabled and a user uses the su(1) command to assume another user’s priviledges, that user is no longer able to access the original user’s X display because the new user does not have the key needed to access the display. pam_xauth solves the problem by forwarding the key from the user running su (the source user) to the user whose identity the source user is assuming (the target user) when the session is created, and destroying the key when the session is torn down. HTH - -- Ashish Shukla आशीष शुक्ल http://wahjava.wordpress.com/ ·-- ·- ·--- ·- ···- ·- ·--·-· --· -- ·- ·· ·-·· ·-·-·- -·-· --- -- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHiayrHy+EEHYuXnQRAn7OAKCYODBSNCyDe6YBZmO0PD++cN4tdACeKx1N 9jfEw387NDJ6fntGhL4q29o= =aCDl -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] [OT] Re: Linux webcam
TOP: @ALL: Trust KG to lead the thread to totally cross purposes than the original. I thought many of us were aware of list rules. If you feel something totally OT to original topic at least mark it OT or start a new thread... @Sriram J > i myself back in the days had to switch to windows because i bought an > unsupported video card and did not have the money to buy an new one. > Back in those days windows licenses were ~8k and you had the money for that? Yes Linux is for general users and many are happy using it just as many times more are happy using win...that is another topic and thread. -- Regards, Sudev Barar Read http://blog.sudev.in for topics ranging from here to there. ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] ATI Driver Install Issue
On Jan 13, 2008 6:28 AM, Karanbir Singh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > try running the ATI Catalyst from the command line, see if it bombs with > errors ? Also, you might want to try a list which does direct support > for your $distro ? > i tried the cmd line way: 1. as normal user $ amdcccle amdcccle: xcb_xlib.c:50: xcb_xlib_unlock: Assertion `c->xlib.lock' failed. Aborted 2. as root # amdcccle Session management error: Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based authentication failed amdcccle: xcb_xlib.c:50: xcb_xlib_unlock: Assertion `c->xlib.lock' failed. Aborted ** i am using fedora 8 (2.6.23.1) i think its something related to the 'drm' module..! -- Sahil ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
On 13-Jan-08, at 8:56 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote: > Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: >> redhat 5 had a package manager - yes, graphical. It had linuxconf - >> from setting up aliases to ethernet cards, users blah blah. Great > > Too bad it does not install on modern day hardware :D Also, you > seem to > think Linuxconf from those days was the best way to do things ? I > haveto > disagree. Linuxconf was a piece of crap software, badly written and > hard > to manage or even hack your own stuff into. So much so that its been > more than once abandoned by its authors. linuxconf was fine until RH 7 - when it got broke > >> gui. Actually it was 5.2 that had all the goodies. It ran on 32 MB >> RAM. And it ran wordperfect 5.1 perfectly under dosemu. It had a real > > I have, just like pretty much most of the world, no use for > Wordperfect. deah boy, my secretary has been using wp 5.1 from 1989 and refuses to shift from it. She started out on a dos box, then doze 3.1, then redhat 5.2 with dosemu - unfortunately when I tried wp in dosemu in later versions of redhat it didnt work fully, so now she is on doze 98 in dos mode. I am trying to get all the keybindings to work under wine in mandriva, in which case I will shift her back to the good and true distro > >> good filemanager -yes, better than windows explorer. I have the cds, >> so if you want to come and verify it - be my guest. > > Compared to what window manager ? Can it compete in a user > experience to > todays Windows ? Or are you still living in a time warp and only > want to > compare notes with what 'has been' ? frankly speaking, I dont see any difference between the kde desktop I have today with what I had in rh 5.2. Of course I am an old guy and my needs are simple, so maybe it doesnt count. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ Foss conference for the common man: http://registration.fossconf.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > redhat 5 had a package manager - yes, graphical. It had linuxconf - > from setting up aliases to ethernet cards, users blah blah. Great Too bad it does not install on modern day hardware :D Also, you seem to think Linuxconf from those days was the best way to do things ? I haveto disagree. Linuxconf was a piece of crap software, badly written and hard to manage or even hack your own stuff into. So much so that its been more than once abandoned by its authors. > gui. Actually it was 5.2 that had all the goodies. It ran on 32 MB > RAM. And it ran wordperfect 5.1 perfectly under dosemu. It had a real I have, just like pretty much most of the world, no use for Wordperfect. > good filemanager -yes, better than windows explorer. I have the cds, > so if you want to come and verify it - be my guest. Compared to what window manager ? Can it compete in a user experience to todays Windows ? Or are you still living in a time warp and only want to compare notes with what 'has been' ? -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ GnuPG Public Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
On 13-Jan-08, at 6:26 AM, Karanbir Singh wrote: >> use and icons etc, I remember redhat 5.x had a much better desktop >> and was much easier to use than the current kde and gnome desktops - >> and nothing wrong with the icons either. > > Redhat 5 ? as in from the late 90's ? Surely that your personal > opinion > rather than verifiable fact. redhat 5 had a package manager - yes, graphical. It had linuxconf - from setting up aliases to ethernet cards, users blah blah. Great gui. Actually it was 5.2 that had all the goodies. It ran on 32 MB RAM. And it ran wordperfect 5.1 perfectly under dosemu. It had a real good filemanager -yes, better than windows explorer. I have the cds, so if you want to come and verify it - be my guest. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ Foss conference for the common man: http://registration.fossconf.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
> WHICH MAKE IS THIS CAMERA PL. TELL ME AND IF POSSIBLE SHOP > NAME ALSO . The make is Quantum. Raj's first post on this thread gave detailed specifications. It is widely available from any number of shops in Nehru Place. Vikas ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] ATI Driver Install Issue
Sahil Dave wrote: > but now Admin -> Display is not opening. > also, the ATI Catalyst control center has come up in the menu, but its not > working. try running the ATI Catalyst from the command line, see if it bombs with errors ? Also, you might want to try a list which does direct support for your $distro ? -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ GnuPG Public Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > On 12-Jan-08, at 7:34 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote: > >>> you mean other operating systems were not developed by programmers? >>> Or that the current developers of Linux are not programmers? >> Other operating systems are not designed by programmrs, no. For the >> mainstream player definitions of 'Other'. Most of them are designed >> by a >> committee against what they interpret to be saleable or marketable >> features. > > are you sure? I know hurd was designed by committee - but what of > various flavours of unix and bsd? I was always under the impression I am unaware of any other flavour of Unix or BSD that supports as much hardware as Linux does, nor one that has as much market penetration to figure in the mainstream "OS's" - So I am not sure what your point here is.[1] > that they sort of grew - and were grown by programmers. And I dont > think even dos was designed by a committee. btw, talking of ease of > use and icons etc, I remember redhat 5.x had a much better desktop > and was much easier to use than the current kde and gnome desktops - > and nothing wrong with the icons either. Redhat 5 ? as in from the late 90's ? Surely that your personal opinion rather than verifiable fact. - KB [1] - Hurd ? is that even anywhere near usable anywhere in the real world ??? -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ GnuPG Public Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] GTalk in Ubuntu (was Re: ilugd Digest, Vol 58, Issue 20)
> Please if anyone could help me about how to use Gtalk in Ubuntu 7.10? You have a few options: + Pidgin -- http://www.google.com/support/talk/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=24073 + Freetalk -- http://www.gnu.org/software/freetalk + Meebo -- http://wwwe.meebo.com/ Many more: http://www.google.co.in/search?q=gnu%2Flinux+jabber+clients&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a If you are behind a restrictive proxy, this thread might interest you: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/glug-nith-discuss/2008-01/msg00022.html Cheers, Debarshi -- Free software for the Indian community: * ftp://fedora.glug-nith.org/ (Fedora) * http://gnu.glug-nith.org/ (GNU) * http://mirror.wbut.ac.in/ (CRAN, Fedora, Mozilla, TLDP) ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Apologies to the group
On Saturday 12 January 2008 22:56, Prakhar Agarwal wrote: >I'm so sorry for the mistake I just committed. It was unintentional. I >really did not know about how to post on this mailing list as it was > my first post. [OT] Hmm, looks like, someone told you what you did, offlist. [/OT] >I just wished to > seek your help regarding Gtalk usage in Ubuntu 7.10 You can visit the page, http://www.ubuntu-in.org/wiki/Gmail_%26_Gaim_Howto to know more. (Assuming, you would use GAIM as your IM client). (Psst... You can /also/ join Ubuntu-IN (http://www.ubuntu-in.org) mailing list and post questions there, and it often a good idea to search mailing list archives before you post. Though, that is not mandatory, it is often good to do so. ) ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] ATI Driver Install Issue
--- Sahil Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > hi, > > i have installed the ATI graphics for my on-board > gpu (Xpress 1250) > have tried doing the default config. by: > > $aticonfig --initial --input=/etc/X11/xorg.conf > > but the following error comes on reboot and there is > no gui. A while back I spent much time struggling with ATI RADEON 7000 and found out that no drivers exist for this in Fedora. Could not find anywhere on web either. Regards, --Naresh Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] Apologies to the group
Hello everyone, I'm so sorry for the mistake I just committed. It was unintentional. I really did not know about how to post on this mailing list as it was my first post. So, I extend my sincere apologies to the whole group. I just wished to seek your help regarding Gtalk usage in Ubuntu 7.10 I'm Sorry everyone. Regards -- Prakhar Agarwal ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] ilugd Digest, Vol 58, Issue 20
Please if anyone could help me about how to use Gtalk in Ubuntu 7.10? thanks Regards, Prakhar Agarwal On Jan 12, 2008 7:38 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Send ilugd mailing list submissions to >ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > You can reach the person managing the list at >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ilugd digest..." > > > Please trim replies before posting. > > Today's Topics: > > 1. ATI Driver Install Issue (Sahil Dave) > 2. Re: AMD 64 X2 linux install issue (Sahil Dave) > 3. Re: Linux webcam (Sriram J) > 4. Re: Linux webcam (Anoop John) > 5. Re: Linux webcam (Raj Mathur) > 6. Re: ATI Driver Install Issue (Karanbir Singh) > 7. Re: Linux webcam (Kenneth Gonsalves) > 8. Re: Linux webcam (Karanbir Singh) > 9. Re: Linux webcam (Karanbir Singh) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 02:45:36 +0530 > From: "Sahil Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [ilugd] ATI Driver Install Issue > To: "ILUG-D Discuss" > Message-ID: ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > hi, > > i have installed the ATI graphics for my on-board gpu (Xpress 1250) > have tried doing the default config. by: > > $aticonfig --initial --input=/etc/X11/xorg.conf > > but the following error comes on reboot and there is no gui. > > *Error Log: only the relevant part* > (II) LoadModule: "fglrx" > (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules//drivers/fglrx_drv.so > dlopen: libstdc++.so.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or > directory > (EE) Failed to load /usr/lib/xorg/modules//drivers/fglrx_drv.so > (II) UnloadModule: "fglrx" > (EE) Failed to load module "fglrx" (loader failed, 7) > (II) LoadModule: "kbd" > (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules//input/kbd_drv.so > (II) Module kbd: vendor="X.Org Foundation" > compiled for 1.3.0, module version = 1.2.2 > Module class: X.Org XInput Driver > ABI class: X.Org XInput driver, version 0.7 > (II) LoadModule: "mouse" > (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules//input/mouse_drv.so > (II) Module mouse: vendor="X.Org Foundation" > compiled for 1.3.0, module version = 1.2.3 > Module class: X.Org XInput Driver > ABI class: X.Org XInput driver, version 0.7 > (EE) No drivers available. > > Fatal server error: > no screens found > > > can anyone help...?? > -- > Sahil > > > -- > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 02:48:14 +0530 > From: "Sahil Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [ilugd] AMD 64 X2 linux install issue > To: "The Linux-Delhi mailing list" > Message-ID: ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Jan 7, 2008 11:51 PM, Anoop John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > does AMD 64X2 only supports 64-bit distros, is there any way around > > > > this...?? > > > I have been able to successfully install Ubuntu 7.10 32bit edition on > > > Athlon X2 processors. What is the exact error message that you are > > > getting? Edit the boot options and take out the quiet and splash > > > options while booting Ubuntu installation CD and check for the error > > > messages. > > > > > > fedora 8 installed correctly once i inserted 'acpi=off' option. my mobo is > not supporting acpi with linux i-386. > > -- > Sahil > > MCA(SE) > USIT > GGSIPU, Kashmere Gate > Delhi > > > -- > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:15:53 +0530 > From: "Sriram J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam > To: "The Linux-Delhi mailing list" > Message-ID: ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > > > I burnt my hand recently after buying a $90 Logitech quickcam pro or > > something. As my bad luck turned out, this needed the exact driver which > > was pulled out from the Linux kernel in a big public spat [1]. My bad, > > I should have checked before that flash of impulsive buying. I had to > > donate the cam to my brother who happily runs it on his XP (blech). > > > > [1] http://lwn.net/Articles/99615/ > > > > Can some one tell me what is the positioning of linux as an operating > system. > who are target audience/consumers of linux supposed to be. > > is it for the general users who want an alternative for windows or the few > fakirs[1] who put ideology above all and are not willing to compromise at > any cost. > > is linux intended by design to always remain out of the reach of the > person > who refuses to jump through hoops to get the hardware to work . > > i myself back in the days had to switch to windows because i bought an > unsupported video card and did not have the money to buy an new one. > > > [1] Definitions of *fakir* on the Web >A
Re: [ilugd] ATI Driver Install Issue
On Jan 12, 2008 7:15 PM, Karanbir Singh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sahil Dave wrote: > > (II) LoadModule: "fglrx" > > (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules//drivers/fglrx_drv.so > > dlopen: libstdc++.so.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or > > directory > > > yum install 'libstdc++.so.5' thanx, this solved the problem. but now Admin -> Display is not opening. also, the ATI Catalyst control center has come up in the menu, but its not working. -- Sahil ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
On 12-Jan-08, at 7:34 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote: >> you mean other operating systems were not developed by programmers? >> Or that the current developers of Linux are not programmers? > > Other operating systems are not designed by programmrs, no. For the > mainstream player definitions of 'Other'. Most of them are designed > by a > committee against what they interpret to be saleable or marketable > features. are you sure? I know hurd was designed by committee - but what of various flavours of unix and bsd? I was always under the impression that they sort of grew - and were grown by programmers. And I dont think even dos was designed by a committee. btw, talking of ease of use and icons etc, I remember redhat 5.x had a much better desktop and was much easier to use than the current kde and gnome desktops - and nothing wrong with the icons either. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ Foss conference for the common man: http://registration.fossconf.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
Sriram J wrote: >> Can some one tell me what is the positioning of linux as an operating > system. There isnt one. There does not need to be one. Its used on devices as mobile phones to the largest supercomputer in the world. I think what you need to do is read up a bit on what Linux is and the whole idea of open source :D > who are target audience/consumers of linux supposed to be. everyone who can use it. > is linux intended by design to always remain out of the reach of the person > who refuses to jump through hoops to get the hardware to work . I had to jump through no hoops to get my hardware working - I have 8 machines here at home, and 3 laptops. Also, if your statement was true - OSX would never had had a future, they support a much much smaller subset of hardware than Linux does - yet its gone from 3% to 7% of all Personal users ( not sure where the number came from, it was quoted at a recent meeting at work, correct me if I am wrong on that ). > i myself back in the days had to switch to windows because i bought an > unsupported video card and did not have the money to buy an new one. back in the day, I used to use os/2 since it gave me the best serial comms and tcp/ip support to get online. Ofcourse that was 1994/5 :D things have sort of moved on since. -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: >> The reason you may face issues with some hardware with Linux is >> that the >> OS grew organically, not from committee. The first developers of >> Linux >> were all programmers. > > you mean other operating systems were not developed by programmers? > Or that the current developers of Linux are not programmers? Other operating systems are not designed by programmrs, no. For the mainstream player definitions of 'Other'. Most of them are designed by a committee against what they interpret to be saleable or marketable features. Then there is also the user base issue - Which is why only a small subset of Webcams work on OSX, much much lesser in numbers than what works on Linux :D And almost NONE of the real enterprise type storage solutions work on OSX. And most telephony and DC managment systems dont really work on Windows. It does not fit the target demographic for the developers of these systems. - KB -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
On 12-Jan-08, at 12:42 PM, Raj Mathur wrote: >> i myself back in the days had to switch to windows because i bought >> an unsupported video card and did not have the money to buy an new >> one. > > The reason you may face issues with some hardware with Linux is > that the > OS grew organically, not from committee. The first developers of > Linux > were all programmers. you mean other operating systems were not developed by programmers? Or that the current developers of Linux are not programmers? > As a programmer, what do you think I'd want to > develop first for a new platform, a good text editor that allows me to > write more code, or a set of pretty icons that make my desktop look > beautiful but don't help me with my job at all? there are many kinds of programmers. And many programmers *need* those icons to help them in their job. They aren't all sitting around coding in vi. Significant number of them use macs. It is not that they didn't want icons, or that they didn't need all the ease of use - it is just that the os was evolving - and is still evolving. And new products are, by their nature, crude. > > Today there's enough momentum and stability with Linux to enable > developers to look at other aspects of computing, namely ease of use > and aesthetics. ease of use and aesthetics are fundamental to computing - not some frills to be added on. But definition of ease of use and aesthetics differ. Most people dont understand the difference between 'ease of use' and 'familiarity'. A windoze user finds windows easy to use because he is familiar with it. Accustomed to it. I have seen people for whom linux was their first OS totally bewildered when trying to negotiate windows. They say mac interface is easy to use - but even after a year and a half using it, I still struggle to do things that are dead simple in linux. I also struggle the few times I am forced to use windows, but the interface that drives me nuts is gnome. > Also note that a lot of the issues that you have in mind are due to > vendors not providing Linux developers with adequate specifications to > allow them (the developers) to build drivers for utilising their (the > vendors') hardware. why should they? They are in business to make money. Our job is to convince them that releasing their specs will help them make more money > If you find that Linux doesn't support your > Phillips webcam (because Phillips refuses to share interfaces with the > developer community), would you blame Linux or Phillips? I would blame linux > If your > proprietary Nvidia drivers crash your laptop on suspend or resume, > wouldn't you agree that the blame lies with Nvidia for not working > with > developers and assisting them in developing open source drivers for > their graphics cards? The developers are willing but the company is > weak ;) the company wants to be strong - and will support linux when they realise that 'linux compatible' means something to the customer - not before > > So yes, problems remain; some of them are because of low interest > in the > developers for a particular feature, and some are due to close-minded > vendors who cling to some perceived business advantage at the risk of > alienating a growing part of their market. But keep writing, at least > we have a great support infrastructure (voted the best in the world a > few years ago :) true -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ Foss conference for the common man: http://registration.fossconf.in/web/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] ATI Driver Install Issue
Sahil Dave wrote: > (II) LoadModule: "fglrx" > (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules//drivers/fglrx_drv.so > dlopen: libstdc++.so.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or > directory yum install 'libstdc++.so.5' -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 12 Jan 2008, Sriram J wrote: >[snip] > Can some one tell me what is the positioning of linux as an > operating system. > who are target audience/consumers of linux supposed to be. > > is it for the general users who want an alternative for windows or > the few fakirs[1] who put ideology above all and are not willing to > compromise at any cost. > > is linux intended by design to always remain out of the reach of the > person who refuses to jump through hoops to get the hardware to work > . > > i myself back in the days had to switch to windows because i bought > an unsupported video card and did not have the money to buy an new > one. The reason you may face issues with some hardware with Linux is that the OS grew organically, not from committee. The first developers of Linux were all programmers. As a programmer, what do you think I'd want to develop first for a new platform, a good text editor that allows me to write more code, or a set of pretty icons that make my desktop look beautiful but don't help me with my job at all? That's not to say that Linux doesn't have beautiful icons, just that programmers like to solve their own problems first. Which is why Linux has one of the most solid IP stacks in the world, and is stable and secure -- I'd be more interested in having a fast, stable, safe system first and an easy to use one (for some values of ``easy to use'') later. Today there's enough momentum and stability with Linux to enable developers to look at other aspects of computing, namely ease of use and aesthetics. Examples of applications that perform as well as or better than their proprietary counterparts include KDE and OpenOffice.org. Agreed, Linux still lags in certain areas (e.g. webcam support), but given the pace at which development is happening, that's not likely to be an issue for long. After all, it still installs and runs on more and more diverse hardware than, say, Winduhs could even dream of :) Also note that a lot of the issues that you have in mind are due to vendors not providing Linux developers with adequate specifications to allow them (the developers) to build drivers for utilising their (the vendors') hardware. If you find that Linux doesn't support your Phillips webcam (because Phillips refuses to share interfaces with the developer community), would you blame Linux or Phillips? If your proprietary Nvidia drivers crash your laptop on suspend or resume, wouldn't you agree that the blame lies with Nvidia for not working with developers and assisting them in developing open source drivers for their graphics cards? The developers are willing but the company is weak ;) So yes, problems remain; some of them are because of low interest in the developers for a particular feature, and some are due to close-minded vendors who cling to some perceived business advantage at the risk of alienating a growing part of their market. But keep writing, at least we have a great support infrastructure (voted the best in the world a few years ago :) Regards, - -- Raju - -- Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kandalaya.org/ Freedom in Technology & Software || February 2008 || http://freed.in/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance & Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHiGhiyWjQ78xo0X8RAsDBAJ4uXg3wP1cUXSBIt8Ma63QUmVIOtwCfa3HA eJkd8AzcZuL3httX5d3l1gM= =I7Bo -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Linux webcam
> is it for the general users who want an alternative for windows or the few > fakirs[1] who put ideology above all and are not willing to compromise at > any cost. Ultimately - yes - the general user. For the fakirs - absolutely yes :). GNU/Linux distros has almost reached a state where it works straight out of the box for most of the common hardware. Ex: Ubuntu, Fedora. It is not wrong to hold on to ideology. Not everybody does that and those who do that are very valuable contributors to the community. People who hold fast to ideologies normally tend to be the hardest workers too and would do anything to promote their ideologies. > is linux intended by design to always remain out of the reach of the person > who refuses to jump through hoops to get the hardware to work . Like I mentioned before, it works for most hardware. But for those that do not - there are two reasons. Primarily it is because the hardware vendor does not release specs. The second reason is that the hardware that are not supported tend to be not so common devices or brands that does not have enough developer users who can spend time in reverse engineering a driver. > i myself back in the days had to switch to windows because i bought an > unsupported video card and did not have the money to buy an new one. I can empathize with you. I have been able to get most of the hardware that I use and that I sell to work well with Ubuntu but for those that I could not, I had to give up. I have not had to switch to Windows though :). Cheers Anoop -- http://www.zyxware.com http://www.thondomraughts.com Be the change you wish to see in the world M. K. Gandhi ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
